“…they have tunnel vision and the karma train mentality built into them…”
Thank you. My faith in the average gamer is moderately restored. It’s nice to see someone grasps the real problem here. The real reason behind the griping is that “MY KARMA AND WXP PER MINUTE IS OFF BY 12.731% NOW ANET SUXXORZZZ!! I WANT MY FAST EASY KARMA BACK!!!”
There is not one of the many well known and respected Guilds that Caliban and I mentioned caring for wxp or karma.
You are missing the point of what we are trying to say.
We want WvW to be hard, we want WvW to be a gamemode where you need to work hard to achieve something. We are just not satisfied with the methodes that where used to do so.
One of the many reasons is that there are literally hundreds of suggestions made in these very forums to bring a better experience for all gamers in guild Wars 2, which are getting ignored so far. And keep in mind that the suggestions vary from 1vs1 to a full out large scale battle 100 vs 100 vs 100.
exactly this.
Here is a list of guilds that I’ve seen have people post here who don’t like the arrow cart change:
VoTF, RG, VcY, RiOT, siN, RE, Agg, iCoa, Choo, MERC, HIRE, DsD, IRON, TS, Coin, VK, AEgis, DIS, Nuke
I’m ABSOLUTELY sure that I missed guilds, and those are JUST the tags that I recognize
There is no reason to karmatrain, because why would anyone want karma?
Same thing goes for badges and wxp (though now I would like rank 75 to get godmode on AC)
Ya I am sorry i wasted my points on ballistas. Shouldnt take long to get at least range (5 pts) lol on an AC though, that is near god mode just at that.
People that complain about the ACs are probably just zergling that want to curl up in a 80-man group, take a map and move on to the next map.
Look at who you are talking about:
RG, VcY, Agg, Riot, MERC, VoTF, sIN, DsD, IRON
Hard to call these guilds zerglings that want to curl up in an 80 man group. (Some might have the numbers for that and still usually chose not to e.g. IRON)
I know for a fact that members of big WvW Guilds from Elona’s reach like Anima Immortalis, Aegis, GD, Equinox, Galleon and many more are thinking the same about this joke of a patch. I would bet that our German friends from Kodash like KOA, fx or BOTS are thinking the same.
That is great and I encourage them to all voice there concerns in here because apparently those opposing the patch are now being labeled as a vocal minority.
You are. The one and only complaint I hear from you and your ilk boils down to “It’s not as fast as it was before”. Irrelevant noise.
People’s ignorance really pisses me off.
Stupidity is when you can’t help it;
Ignorance is when you choose not to understand.
I suppose the previous meta wasn’t what Anet wanted WvW to be. For example, let’s take guild ownership.
The objectives get flipped so fast in the former meta that there’s literally no point in making one for your guild. If they buff siege up to the point that it’s impossible to quickly take an objective, and make each objective a fortress, then might there be some point in doing so.
In other words, it probably wasn’t Anet’s vision for fast flips. The previous meta was not what they wanted. They probably want WvW to be more like drawn out, perpetual warfare with more meaningful objectives. Yes, that probably will mean WvW will stagnate. That said, the new meta will separate the good commanders from the bad ones since tactics are forced. Also, having few defenders being able to hold off large numbers also depromotes nightcapping.
It’ll interesting to see how this will turn out. Right now it’s simply a matter of waiting for everyone to adjust, or waiting for those who are unwilling to adjust leave. I’m guessing that in the near future, objectives will be valuable enough that people won’t just go do something like “Drain all supplies from X and move to Y”.
This^
He/she gets it. I’m tired of being steamrolled under-foot because some sea-guild nightcaps consistantly night after night in the instances when our “big guns” aren’t around to save us. I’m tired of being just an inevitable smear on the ground in some mobs karma-train. Then having my carcass “bagged” and laughed at in the lord’s room I so desperately tried to defend. Like I was the one whose efforts were pointless, and you cowards can’t take me on in equal terms. There’s no good fight or any measure of respectable PvP in a 4v30+, so that argument is totally moot. We also certainly didn’t get respected for our efforts in trying either.
Defending is actually worthwhile now for those of us who don’t want to participate in your mouth-frothing zergball karma-trains. Someone asks “U mad?” you’re kitten’ing right I’m mad. I do NOT want to get thrown back into just plain ol’ more of the same. Is 80% dmg increase too much? Maybe. We could probably compromise and settle for 50%, but I do not want to step backward to the time when zergs reigned.
Kudos to you, sir.
People’s ignorance really pisses me off.
Stupidity is when you can’t help it;
Ignorance is when you choose not to understand.
People that complain about the ACs are probably just zergling that want to curl up in a 80-man group, take a map and move on to the next map.
Look at who you are talking about:
RG, VcY, Agg, Riot, MERC, VoTF, sIN, DsD, IRON
Hard to call these guilds zerglings that want to curl up in an 80 man group. (Some might have the numbers for that and still usually chose not to e.g. IRON)
I know for a fact that members of big WvW Guilds from Elona’s reach like Anima Immortalis, Aegis, GD, Equinox, Galleon and many more are thinking the same about this joke of a patch. I would bet that our German friends from Kodash like KOA, fx or BOTS are thinking the same.
That is great and I encourage them to all voice there concerns in here because apparently those opposing the patch are now being labeled as a vocal minority.
You are. The one and only complaint I hear from you and your ilk boils down to “It’s not as fast as it was before”. Irrelevant noise.
And when we say as fast = hours before, way more hours or near impossible now.
I think in some tiers fast = 10 mins. In T1/2/3 fast rarely means less than an hour for a T3 defended keep.
Why is it that a larger than average guild raid such as VOTF should find themselves at the head of this debate?
Now im not intentionally trying to be rude here but it’s obvious this patch has kittened up the fun you have in your raid, but was this not the purpose of the AC buff to assist smaller forces with fighting against larger groups?
It’s a catch 22 people complain about zergs everywhere but any fix will of course then change reward and fun for those in large guild raids also, but what about those who want fun although they can’t avoid facing a large guild raid?
What can we do? Anet gets it’s balls chewed no matter what it does because every change will always effect someone in a way they don’t like it.
Nerf heart seeker and stealth no one will play thief
Nerf rewards or dampen down effectiveness of server zergs like Vizunah in an attempt to break them up then the French go berzerk along with many of the large guilds in the game also.
We will never have any balance only constant compromise that leaves one group happy and another upset.
People that complain about the ACs are probably just zergling that want to curl up in a 80-man group, take a map and move on to the next map.
Look at who you are talking about:
RG, VcY, Agg, Riot, MERC, VoTF, sIN, DsD, IRON
Hard to call these guilds zerglings that want to curl up in an 80 man group. (Some might have the numbers for that and still usually chose not to e.g. IRON)
I know for a fact that members of big WvW Guilds from Elona’s reach like Anima Immortalis, Aegis, GD, Equinox, Galleon and many more are thinking the same about this joke of a patch. I would bet that our German friends from Kodash like KOA, fx or BOTS are thinking the same.
That is great and I encourage them to all voice there concerns in here because apparently those opposing the patch are now being labeled as a vocal minority.
You are. The one and only complaint I hear from you and your ilk boils down to “It’s not as fast as it was before”. Irrelevant noise.
Where did we say something is not as fast as before? We don’t even care about that. I’m sure nobody in our guild would mind if we did not cap a keep or tower for the next 2 months. They would mind if we did not have any real and challenging fights, that is what this patch took away.
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
I suppose the previous meta wasn’t what Anet wanted WvW to be. For example, let’s take guild ownership.
The objectives get flipped so fast in the former meta that there’s literally no point in making one for your guild. If they buff siege up to the point that it’s impossible to quickly take an objective, and make each objective a fortress, then might there be some point in doing so.
In other words, it probably wasn’t Anet’s vision for fast flips. The previous meta was not what they wanted. They probably want WvW to be more like drawn out, perpetual warfare with more meaningful objectives. Yes, that probably will mean WvW will stagnate. That said, the new meta will separate the good commanders from the bad ones since tactics are forced. Also, having few defenders being able to hold off large numbers also depromotes nightcapping.
It’ll interesting to see how this will turn out. Right now it’s simply a matter of waiting for everyone to adjust, or waiting for those who are unwilling to adjust leave. I’m guessing that in the near future, objectives will be valuable enough that people won’t just go do something like “Drain all supplies from X and move to Y”.
This^
He/she gets it. I’m tired of being steamrolled under-foot because some sea-guild nightcaps consistantly night after night in the instances when our “big guns” aren’t around to save us. I’m tired of being just an inevitable smear on the ground in some mobs karma-train. Then having my carcass “bagged” and laughed at in the lord’s room I so desperately tried to defend. Like I was the one whose efforts were pointless, and you cowards can’t take me on in equal terms. There’s no good fight or any measure of respectable PvP in a 4v30+, so that argument is totally moot. We also certainly didn’t get respected for our efforts in trying either.
Defending is actually worthwhile now for those of us who don’t want to participate in your mouth-frothing zergball karma-trains. Someone asks “U mad?” you’re kitten’ing right I’m mad. I do NOT want to get thrown back into just plain ol’ more of the same. Is 80% dmg increase too much? Maybe. We could probably compromise and settle for 50%, but I do not want to step backward to the time when zergs reigned.
Kudos to you, sir.
So in other words….sacrifice the enjoyability of the game for the majority of the players to please the couple people who have trouble at night?
I think there is just a huge discepency between the tiers here. lower tiers don’t like losing a tower/keep in 2 mins. Higher tiers generally dont have that problem and have mostly big epic fights for keeps that can last hours, T3 keeps/towers were hard to take in the higher tiers before this change.
Personally I have no problem with both zergs and small groups, maybe the solution would be to have the AC’s changes only happen when a server has outmanned buff?
I think there is just a huge discepency between the tiers here. lower tiers don’t like losing a tower/keep in 2 mins. Higher tiers generally dont have that problem and have mostly big epic fights for keeps that can last hours, T3 keeps/towers were hard to take in the higher tiers before this change.
Personally I have no problem with both zergs and small groups, maybe the solution would be to have the AC’s changes only happen when a server has outmanned buff?
Honestly, this is the best idea I’ve heard on this topic since it started.
Why is it that a larger than average guild raid such as VOTF should find themselves at the head of this debate?
Now im not intentionally trying to be rude here but it’s obvious this patch has kittened up the way you utilise your raid, but was this not the purpose of the AC buff to assist smaller forces with fighting against larger groups?
It’s a catch 22 people complain about zergs everywhere but any fix will of course then change reward and success in large guild raids also.
What can we do? Anet gets it’s balls chewed no matter what it does because every change will always effect someone in a way they don’t like it.
Nerf heart seeker and stealth no one will play thief
Nerf rewards for server zergs like Vizunah in an attempt to break them up then the French go berzerk along with many of the large guilds in the game also.
I don’t know how you would be rude, I don’t really get what you are saying.
If the AC is supposed to help smaller forces against larger forces then it would be here to help us. Fighting bigger forces than ourselves is basically what we do. So if this patch is meant for us and we totally hate it, doesn’t that make this patch a fail?
We usually run with 30 and on reset 40-50 (that would be larger than average).
Most guild groups run between 20-40 and most pug groups have 50+.
I do not get what you are saying.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
Why is it that a larger than average guild raid such as VOTF should find themselves at the head of this debate?
Now im not intentionally trying to be rude here but it’s obvious this patch has kittened up the way you utilise your raid, but was this not the purpose of the AC buff to assist smaller forces with fighting against larger groups?
It’s a catch 22 people complain about zergs everywhere but any fix will of course then change reward and success in large guild raids also.
What can we do? Anet gets it’s balls chewed no matter what it does because every change will always effect someone in a way they don’t like it.
Nerf heart seeker and stealth no one will play thief
Nerf rewards for server zergs like Vizunah in an attempt to break them up then the French go berzerk along with many of the large guilds in the game also.
I don’t know how you would be rude, I don’t really get what you are saying.
If the AC is supposed to help smaller forces against larger forces then it would be here to help us. Fighting bigger forces than ourselves is basically what we do. So if this patch is meant for us and we totally hate it, doesn’t that make this patch a fail?
We usually run with 30 and on reset 40-50 (that would be larger than average).
Most guild groups run between 20-40 and most pug groups have 50+.
I do not get what you are saying.
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.
Voice on the Wind – Druid
Brorannosaurus [Rekz] – Formerly Less Talkin More [Sekz]
Dragonbrand
Arrowcarts are just fine, yes I hate getting bombarded with a gazillion arrows when I’m at a gate, but this seems more in line with it being a siege weapon, not a LB barrage, and I can actually keep people away. instead of hoping one of them doesn’t move.
trebs, catapults force the defenders to build counters or to come out of thier safe walls and viola! battle on maggots!
If the benefit to the buff was that the smaller forces stood a chance against the larger forces while defending…that would be one thing…
The problem is that arrowcarts are being used as offensive weapons now. Zergs are dropping ACs outside of towers and keeps and using gaps above doors (and other creative aiming tricks) to aim them inside and take out all the siege…including other arrow carts, before attempting to take the tower.
And I should mention that even a small zerg with three arrow carts outside a tower can wipe anyone trying to get INTO that tower to defend it with breathtaking ease.
TC lost TCBL Bay last night to enemies dropping tons of superior arrow carts outside the gates of inner and wiping siege inside. When they came in, they hardly had any resistance from siege because they had used arrow carts to wipe almost all of it. That….is utterly broken.
Arrowcarts are just fine, yes I hate getting bombarded with a gazillion arrows when I’m at a gate, but this seems more in line with it being a siege weapon, not a LB barrage, and I can actually keep people away. instead of hoping one of them doesn’t move.
trebs, catapults force the defenders to build counters or to come out of thier safe walls and viola! battle on maggots!
Arrow carts almost have as much range as catapults now… Not to mention you may cata down that wall, but good luck getting inside the breach…
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.
this!
I don’t know why we try anymore… =(
Because it’s not like we can play balanced and normal WvW anymore.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.
I hope you do understand that a game mode including towers, keeps, siege weapons, supply camps and supply lines, and whose score is computed on structures owned and not on total kills was never intended to be played as a bigger deathmatch arena.
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.
this!
I don’t know why we try anymore… =(
Because it’s not like we can play balanced and normal WvW anymore.
Hey, there’s always Player vs EnviroHAHAHAHAOHMYGODI’MGOINGTOGOKILLMYSELFFORSAYINGTHAT.
Voice on the Wind – Druid
Brorannosaurus [Rekz] – Formerly Less Talkin More [Sekz]
Dragonbrand
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.
I hope you do understand that a game mode including towers, keeps, siege weapons, supply camps and supply lines, and whose score is computed on structures owned and not on total kills was never intended to be played as a bigger deathmatch arena.
World vs. World (WvW) is PvP combat that involves hundred of players. Three huge teams —each representing a server, or world—battle for control over objectives on four massive maps in week-long matches.
Each map – one for each server and a huge “neutral” center map – is loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems.
While players are in WvW, they gain experience and loot just as they normally do while exploring Tyria. Plus, when their home world is doing well or wins a match in WvW, all players on that world receive special bonuses and perks.
World vs. World—it’s PvP combat on an epic scale!
STRAIGHT FROM ARENANET’S MOUTH ON GUILD WARS 2 WEBSITE
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.
I hope you do understand that a game mode including towers, keeps, siege weapons, supply camps and supply lines, and whose score is computed on structures owned and not on total kills was never intended to be played as a bigger deathmatch arena.
I understand and that is why we don’t do it. We use the objectives to get those fights and it provides for more things than just deathmatch fights. You get ambushed while building trebs or you ambush people yourself by baiting them with a seemingly undefended tower. We might not play the ppt game but we use the tools that the ppt mechanic gives us to make our time in this game as enjoyable as possible.
I do not believe that Anet actually intended any specific concrete kind of gameplay just that they give us tools and we use it how we see fit.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
This AC thing has really turned folks off from WvW. We’ve been outmanned all week and our server is usually packed with players. While playing outmanned I found the AC thing actually hindered us. Often an outmanned server will group up and try to ninja a point or two, fast. The more populated team usually had to send over their forces to stop us, or drive us off in time. Now they just send two people to sit on arrow carts and keep us from the objective. They pushed us so far back from Ogrewatch that we had to sit in the Ogre pen and build trebs. So, so boring.
Anything that cuts down on blobs derping down gates is a good move.
It’s like some people here have never heard of cats and trebs to get into places…
There are some people here not knowing what is fun about playing wvwvw…
I like a good siege myself- much more fun than blobbing up and zerging towers in some karma train.
But….it all depends who has the bigger blob. The server with greater number will eventually take down the tower or keep but it will take a bit longer than pre patch days. But re taking the lost tower/keep for smaller servers is going to be impossible now.
PS this isnyt going to stop the karma train but slow it down.
Not necessarily- I’ve been in some glorious 2-3 hour siege defences where the enemy outnumbered us something like 20-60, all our walls were down and we had no supply but we managed to hold and eventually push out and wipe the enemy because we’d got some siege up to hold the lord’s room and chokepoints, and most importantly because we were determined and organised. Eventually the enemy lost their fighting spirit and we pushed them out.
Granted that sort of thing happens rarely given the way WVW rewards sheer numbers, and it reflects badly on the enemy, but I find those fights far more rewarding than zergs autoattacking doors down and rolling onto the next target. Organised field tactics is part of the game, but being able to put up a good nuanced siege offense/defence is what shows a server’s character IMO.
THIS.Defending against a big zerg was completely doable before patch.Happened every day and it was perfectly easy for 10 players to defend a tower against 60 for 2- 3 hours.The only difference was that the defenders had to actually use or posess a brain instead of just droping an arrowcart and completely negate 90% of possible tactics.Now is treb or gtfo
IF you have a large zerg trebs won’t be a problem.However if you only have a 10 – 15 aman group you can aswell log off cuz u wont be seeing any action except flipping camps every 10 minutes.
Terrible change for anyone that does not run a 60 man blob and completely gamebreaking for small teams to groups consisting up to 4-5 parties.
I hope you do understand that a game mode including towers, keeps, siege weapons, supply camps and supply lines, and whose score is computed on structures owned and not on total kills was never intended to be played as a bigger deathmatch arena.
You do realize that in order to facilitate that entire process, people are needed. Sometimes, lots of people. This entire system does not exist in a person-less vacuum.
There just happens to be good business in a few good people being able to make a pile of lots of other peoples’ bodies. Especially when said bodies are the resultant of contested territory. But then again, what would we know?
Voice on the Wind – Druid
Brorannosaurus [Rekz] – Formerly Less Talkin More [Sekz]
Dragonbrand
1170 posts..Not one reply….Anet are you serious ? You don’t want to talk with us about how to possibly still turn this into a good thing with a few changes ? Keep going your own way and ignore your community hoping the problem will solve itself in time and people get used to it…?
With the total lack of communication with Your community,about basically everything from the constant disconnects people are getting since the last patch,and no word from Anet…This thread reaching so many posts and not a word from Anet.
Do you care about your customers ?
I really feel like I’m connecting with some of these people. Some of these bonds are really important for me now. I love meeting people who have an inkling of an idea how this game works.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
1170 posts..Not one reply….Anet are you serious ? You don’t want to talk with us about how to possibly still turn this into a good thing with a few changes ? Keep going your own way and ignore your community hoping the problem will solve itself in time and people get used to it…?
They never replied to the Leg Specialist issue and that got fixed. Maybe it’s a sign they’re actually fixing things…
1170 posts..Not one reply….Anet are you serious ? You don’t want to talk with us about how to possibly still turn this into a good thing with a few changes ? Keep going your own way and ignore your community hoping the problem will solve itself in time and people get used to it…?
They never replied to the Leg Specialist issue and that got fixed. Maybe it’s a sign they’re actually fixing things…
=P well if they keep that pattern, well….ESO and Archeage should be out by then…
Well I played WvW for 2 hours last night. In that two hours we didn’t even manage to take a supply camp because going within 10,000 range of any objective instantly resulted in the deaths of 20-30 people from AC’s. It was just zerg vs zerg in the open field and that only lasted for the 10-15 seconds it took for people to build AC’s in the field and then that was over too. After spending 1.5 hours of my two hour play running back from being killed by AC’s me and about 60% of the other WvW players left.
1170 posts..Not one reply….Anet are you serious ? You don’t want to talk with us about how to possibly still turn this into a good thing with a few changes ? Keep going your own way and ignore your community hoping the problem will solve itself in time and people get used to it…?
They never replied to the Leg Specialist issue and that got fixed. Maybe it’s a sign they’re actually fixing things…
How long did that take without them saying a thing ? Months…Are you willing to wait around for months hoping they will some day wake up with the idea of changing this ? Do you honestly dont want them to start communicating with us about problems like these instead of constantly going their own way and then having to backtrack things and change it anyways ? Im also talking about those disconnects,people are unable to play atm,A whole lot ( myself included atm )..and anet not reacting at all these people is just a total lack of giving a kitten.THeir attitude and lack of communication with players will drive people away from this game..Trust me on that please.They need to start showing they care about their community before things will go real bad.
Well I played WvW for 2 hours last night. In that two hours we didn’t even manage to take a supply camp because going within 10,000 range of any objective instantly resulted in the deaths of 20-30 people from AC’s. It was just zerg vs zerg in the open field and that only lasted for the 10-15 seconds it took for people to build AC’s in the field and then that was over too. After spending 1.5 hours of my two hour play running back from being killed by AC’s me and about 60% of the other WvW players left.
We were able to take and keep some camps and were able to take a tower or 2 if there was no defenders. Trebbing or trying to get a keep was a moot point. You get counter trebbed immediately and you cant turn you trebs in time to kill the counter treb before ours were lost. I guess the idea is to bulid 4 facing each direction so you can counter the counter fast enough.
Anything that cuts down on blobs derping down gates is a good move.
It’s like some people here have never heard of cats and trebs to get into places…
There are some people here not knowing what is fun about playing wvwvw…
I like a good siege myself- much more fun than blobbing up and zerging towers in some karma train.
But….it all depends who has the bigger blob. The server with greater number will eventually take down the tower or keep but it will take a bit longer than pre patch days. But re taking the lost tower/keep for smaller servers is going to be impossible now.
PS this isnyt going to stop the karma train but slow it down.
Not necessarily- I’ve been in some glorious 2-3 hour siege defences where the enemy outnumbered us something like 20-60, all our walls were down and we had no supply but we managed to hold and eventually push out and wipe the enemy because we’d got some siege up to hold the lord’s room and chokepoints, and most importantly because we were determined and organised. Eventually the enemy lost their fighting spirit and we pushed them out.
Granted that sort of thing happens rarely given the way WVW rewards sheer numbers, and it reflects badly on the enemy, but I find those fights far more rewarding than zergs autoattacking doors down and rolling onto the next target. Organised field tactics is part of the game, but being able to put up a good nuanced siege offense/defence is what shows a server’s character IMO.
Defending against a big zerg was completely doable before patch.Happened every day and it was perfectly easy for 10 players to defend a tower against 60 for 2- 3 hours.The only difference was that the defenders had to actually use or posess a brain instead of just droping an arrowcart and completely negate 90% of possible tactics.Now is treb or gtfo.
IF you have a large zerg trebs won’t be a problem.However if you only have a 10 – 15 man group you can aswell log off cuz u wont be seeing any action except flipping camps every 10 minutes.
Terrible change for anyone that does not run a 60 man blob and completely gamebreaking for small teams to groups consisting up to 4-5 parties.It completely destroyed any tactical aproach to this game mode except running a a megazerg that is able to drop 10 trebs for 10 suply each.
When reset rolls around. If you get hills right away. you will have it the entire match. from start to finish baring some ridiculous mistake in leaving it undefended (than good luck ever getting it back)
I will bet you all the gold I have this is not true.
I copy/pasted his post so I can come back here after the reset and address it with evidence. =)
People’s ignorance really pisses me off.
Stupidity is when you can’t help it;
Ignorance is when you choose not to understand.
I ran my overly squishy thief in WvW for several hours last night and I did not die to a single arrow cart the entire time.
Shh. Arrow carts are massively overpowered now. One player with an arrow cart can defend garrison by himself now.
What you guys don’t get is 1 or 2 Ac’s are fine and maybe that is all you run into in yur tier. I wonder how many T3 towers/keeps Breytes took while not dying to an AC. The problem is in my tier it is rare that there are less than 6+ AC’s at every entrance. That many Ac’s with everyone on them trated for range is rediculous, you cant even put up a cata. The range is too much matched with the buff.
It doesn’t actually seem that powerful to me. The most I was hitting for on a regular AC with no mastery was 1245. But mostly in the mid triple digits.
And to tell you the truth, I saw a lot of offensive AC’s too.
And the zergs in my match actually split up last night! It was fun.
I ran my overly squishy thief in WvW for several hours last night and I did not die to a single arrow cart the entire time.
Shh. Arrow carts are massively overpowered now. One player with an arrow cart can defend garrison by himself now.
What you guys don’t get is 1 or 2 Ac’s are fine and maybe that is all you run into in yur tier. I wonder how many T3 towers/keeps Fractalchaos took while not dying to an AC. The problem is in my tier it is rare that there are less than 6+ AC’s at every entrance. That many Ac’s with everyone on them trated for range is rediculous, you cant even put up a cata. The range is too much matched with the buff.
It doesn’t actually seem that powerful to me. The most I was hitting for on a regular AC with no mastery was 1245. But mostly in the mid triple digits.
And to tell you the truth, I saw a lot of offensive AC’s too.
And the zergs in my match actually split up last night! It was fun.
“…they have tunnel vision and the karma train mentality built into them…”
Thank you. My faith in the average gamer is moderately restored. It’s nice to see someone grasps the real problem here. The real reason behind the griping is that “MY KARMA AND WXP PER MINUTE IS OFF BY 12.731% NOW ANET SUXXORZZZ!! I WANT MY FAST EASY KARMA BACK!!!”
granted, this video was a gvg on an open field. Most fights like this take place in attacking and defending keeps.
You gain karma and WXP by taking or defending objectives. Camps, towers, keeps, yaks, etc.
The faster you can do so, the faster you gain karma and WXP. Therefore, anything that slows down how quickly you can accomplish said objectives is a brake on WXP/karma gain. It’s a simple concept really.
People’s ignorance really pisses me off.
Stupidity is when you can’t help it;
Ignorance is when you choose not to understand.
We open up keeps and towers to get to the people inside, not for any other reason.
The fact that this point has to be reiterated time and time again is probably the most disappointing part about this thread. It’s funny how the zerg-busting guilds are getting lumped in with the mythical karma train zergs simply because they disagree with this patch and see all its implications.
I hope you do understand that a game mode including towers, keeps, siege weapons, supply camps and supply lines, and whose score is computed on structures owned and not on total kills was never intended to be played as a bigger deathmatch arena.
I understand and that is why we don’t do it. We use the objectives to get those fights and it provides for more things than just deathmatch fights. You get ambushed while building trebs or you ambush people yourself by baiting them with a seemingly undefended tower. We might not play the ppt game but we use the tools that the ppt mechanic gives us to make our time in this game as enjoyable as possible.
I do not believe that Anet actually intended any specific concrete kind of gameplay just that they give us tools and we use it how we see fit.
I understand your point of view, and I’m not saying anyone’s idea of what’s fun is better or worse than anyone’s else, but I still think the whole idea of “siege and all that stuff is boring, the real thing is the character vs. character fight” is very clearly going against obvious design elements like the presence of supplies and its intended use as a way of starving the enemies of it and gaining siege weappns superiority. These design elements have been there since day 1 and you cannot seriously tell me with a straight face that the ability to flip towers and keeps in 2 minutes not by stealth but by simple brute force was consistent with those. The whole idea of having to implement a prolonged siege by progressively starving the defenders of supply and sistematically taking down their siege defenses was very clear in things like each structure having its own supply stockpile which could be used to replenish those defenses.
I don’t think this patch makes the system perfect; far from it, in making siege and supply more critical it’s actually increasing the snowballing effect and giving the stronger side an even bigger advantage; mostly because the stronger you already are, the more supply you have access to, so the force multiplier element of the siege weapons is going to be more accessible to those who already outnumber the enemy. But paper towers flipped by zergballs facerubbing the gates while happily ignoring area denial fire by anything less than 4 of the old ACs were quite clearly not intended.
1170 posts..Not one reply….Anet are you serious ? You don’t want to talk with us about how to possibly still turn this into a good thing with a few changes ? Keep going your own way and ignore your community hoping the problem will solve itself in time and people get used to it…?
They never replied to the Leg Specialist issue and that got fixed. Maybe it’s a sign they’re actually fixing things…
How long did that take without them saying a thing ? Months…Are you willing to wait around for months hoping they will some day wake up with the idea of changing this ?
Oh, no, I’m definitely not willing to wait around. I’ve already started playing Planetside 2 to feed my “massive battle” hunger until they fix this issue. It’s a real shame, considering I have two toons with commander tags and I just invested in a whole set of Sentinel armor, T2/3 skinned, for my guardian commander. For now I’m just hoping I don’t have to cut my losses and move on permanently.
