Guild Wars 2

I certainly hope so! The game is broken the way they can perma stealth.

Def has to be the Thief and Mez even more so when they are teamed up and over 60% of GW2 plays those classes now they are becoming the only 2 classes you get to see or not see lol in WvW these days

Thief, beyond a doubt. Reasons given multiple times already.

DivineBeing.2086:

Thieves by far!

Sorry, but I run a d/d bunker ele with 20k health and all utility slots filled with condition removals and escapes. I should be able to survive a burst! But when a thief is capable of doing over 20k in less than 1 second, something is very very wrong.

Would love to see some facts on this 20k in less than 1 second. As a tanky condition thief, i have yet to see a Glass cannon thief downed me in 1 second with 19k health.

This feels like a voting thread more than a discussion, but yet, it’s the thief. Stealth alone is an incredibly powerful mechanic. Stealth from the multiple sources, the long durations and combined with culling makes any class with this mechanic insanely annoying. Combine with with easy shadow steps which don’t require huge resource investments and yeah, the thief is the most annoying class. Mesmers are in there for the same reasons (stealth, blink, clones). I was chasing a thief and mesmer constantly tagging my keep’s WP, keeping it contested, and even with Signet of the Hunt, two sources of swiftness and a shortbow I was unable to snare either of them (including through the use of Entangle, my elite). It’s too easy to stealth or blink before getting hitting by a cripple or stune and blink lets them get out of range of the ranger quite easily (especially with permanent movement speed boosts). Most of this scenario is the ranger sucking kitten and scouting and skirmishing – something they are ironically supposed to be good at – (and WPs being too easy to contest) but a lot of it goes to the myriad sources of evasion and stealth the thief has.

I can live with the mesmer (my problems with it are actually problems with the ranger design) but the thief has it too easy.

Rangers are annoying too. They stand and spam same skill whole time and pets are annoying too.

brandon.6735:

Would love to see some facts on this 20k in less than 1 second. As a tanky condition thief, i have yet to see a Glass cannon thief downed me in 1 second with 19k health.

You have stealth. Other thieves aren’t going to be as much of a problem for you, since they aren’t going to have as much time to set up for their attacks against you.

Raincrow.1840:

brandon.6735:

Would love to see some facts on this 20k in less than 1 second. As a tanky condition thief, i have yet to see a Glass cannon thief downed me in 1 second with 19k health.

You have stealth. Other thieves aren’t going to be as much of a problem for you, since they aren’t going to have as much time to set up for their attacks against you.

Fail logic.We are not running around in stealth.We are an open target for a glass cannon thief like every other player.

And yes i too have yet to see a glass cannon thief can take away my 19k hp in 1 second as people cry out about it.

Thief, although not for the reasons people have listed on this thread.

Thieves are probably the most unforgiving class to go up against as a new player. I’ve seen groups of 5-10 new players go down to a skilled thief. If you’re not level 80/have a decent build, the thief wins almost every time. Maybe it’s me, but I have a really hard time killing thieves until I’m fully leveled up.

So for a good 79 levels or so, the thief is probably the most irritating thing you can run across in WvW. After that, the profession is balanced. It’s a shame really.

Quentin Fields.1295:

Stupid logic.We are not running around in stealth.We are an open target for a glass cannon thief like every other player.

No you’re not open like every other player, even if you get hit with their opening, all you need is a sliver of HP to stealth away, so you’re not going to have anywhere near as much trouble with a Glass Cannon as other classes. Also, even though you’re not “running around in stealth” you are in stealth for a lot of the time during combat…. this is when most other classes get hit with these burst attacks.

So no, it’s not “stupid logic”. It’s truth

kazi.6438:

Thief, although not for the reasons people have listed on this thread.

Thieves are probably the most unforgiving class to go up against as a new player. I’ve seen groups of 5-10 new players go down to a skilled thief. If you’re not level 80/have a decent build, the thief wins almost every time. Maybe it’s me, but I have a really hard time killing thieves until I’m fully leveled up.

So for a good 79 levels or so, the thief is probably the most irritating thing you can run across in WvW. After that, the profession is balanced. It’s a shame really.

If you’re struggling to destroy any sub 80 char with an 80 in decent gear, no matter the profession, you’re doing something wrong, not just thieves.

Thief →→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→Mesmer→Allother Classes

I hope Anet looks to this thread couse its very unison in how people feel, and i think all of us that critise thief as it is now, we dont want it nerfed to obliteration just, changed and rebalanced so its not a endless rotation of stealth, i mean seriously Thieves, how would you feel if Eles could rotate MIstform in absurdum, and allways come out full health, or warriors had alot lower timer on invulnerability, etc… and i dont think no one of us want Gw2 turned into Thieves only, i have noted more and more of them, and that should point to something !

katniss.6735:

Just thiefses .

I was just going to agree with this, but then I saw this…

Thief ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->Mesmer->Allother Classes

… which illustrates the annoying classes much more eloquently.

/end_of_thread

Lappdancer.4857:

Thieves are annoying. It isn’t so much that they are amazing. I can usually kill them 1v1 on my warrior. But often times the fight goes a lot like this.

Me 80% health, them 40% health
Them: Invis
Reappear at 85% health
Fight
Me 35% health, them 25% health
Them: Run away Invis
Me: chase, immobilize
Them: Short bow…port….port….port

Exactly, thieves aren’t annoying to deal with because they deal high burst damage, it’s their ability to escape any class 1v1. With well timed dodges, block skills, or evade skills you can avoid their burst and damage them, but as soon as the thief sees their initial button mash failed, they just press another button to turn invisible and they can walk away from the fight whenever they want. On my guardian I use a one-hand sword for the teleport and the utility teleport, which sometimes lets me catch them if I can successfully guess which direction they are running when the stealth.

Thiefs. Way to easy anyway.

FYI: Got one myself, besides other classes.

Mesmer? lol It’s Thieves and bunker Elementalists.

It starts with letter T …

ANET should remove stealth until they have a game engine that can support stealth.
Not let stealth be in the game while they try to fix their game engine.

There isnt any other MMO where they have made stealth so powerful like they have in Stealth wars 2.

Thieves, given one class the highest burst DPS, highest speed and guaranteed escape to is a bit much.

since rendering issues isnt a thief ability I feel they shouldnt be faulted for that. We already have enough kitten evidence to hang them thrice over :-p

But….dont nerf them too much, I like thieves for being the best covert ops/scouts. My main problem is that even if you know a thief is there it currently is to easy for them to just keep stealthing and kiting(not just stealthy but fast as well).

Why not make rangers the fastest movers instead?

best burst + guaranteed escape = problem

Another giant thread of folks who don’t realize that stealth isn’t what lets thieves escape, mobility is what lets thieves escape. Remove stealth entirely and most thieves will still get away because you’re slower than they are. I can already catch and kill stealthed thieves that are slower than I am, I am already unable to catch and kill unstealthed anyone who is faster than I am.

If you’re worried about the thief’s ability to disengage and escape, you’re blaming the entirely wrong mechanic.

Tulisin.6945:

Another giant thread of folks who don’t realize that stealth isn’t what lets thieves escape, mobility is what lets thieves escape. Remove stealth entirely and most thieves will still get away because you’re slower than they are. I can already catch and kill stealthed thieves that are slower than I am, I am already unable to catch and kill unstealthed anyone who is faster than I am.

If you’re worried about the thief’s ability to disengage and escape, you’re blaming the entirely wrong mechanic.

Someone understands…

Tulisin.6945:

Another giant thread of folks who don’t realize that stealth isn’t what lets thieves escape, mobility is what lets thieves escape. Remove stealth entirely and most thieves will still get away because you’re slower than they are. I can already catch and kill stealthed thieves that are slower than I am, I am already unable to catch and kill unstealthed anyone who is faster than I am.

If you’re worried about the thief’s ability to disengage and escape, you’re blaming the entirely wrong mechanic.

lol, remove stealth and 90% of the thieve will splat before they even do anything. move speed is capped at 33%, its pretty simple for a number of classes to catch a thieve especially on the short distance by using their own move skills instead of just…run..

the thief’s ability to disengage is because they stealth, then u spend the next 5 sec guessing which direction they ran, then u start trying to catch them, then they triple port so they stay away, then they restealth even if u manage to finally get up 2 them. trying to catch a thieve is like doing a 100meter run with ur competitor starting 50meter from the finish line while u start from 100meter and while ur at it, the person got a reset button that reset the whole race if they dont win.

I know little nothing about ele’s. I know that they are a pain to catch. They are probably the most annoying for me.

elementaliste D/D Tank/dps/heal

because no body can kill a elementalist who know play

can escape a bus easy .
can win 1 vs 1 all other profession exepted a another elementalist bunker .

Rangers are definitely the most ANNOYING CLASS. Unless you mean on the other team.

D/D elem, babby thiefs, mesmer, a good great sword ranger(rare), a good condition necro(rare)

thieves

the rest are bunched together nicely balanced but thieves stand way above them.

Melles.7352:

ANET should remove stealth until they have a game engine that can support stealth.
Not let stealth be in the game while they try to fix their game engine.

There isnt any other MMO where they have made stealth so powerful like they have in Stealth wars 2.

Unfortunately, this may be the only way to balance then with the perm stealth problems from the culling bug.

Thieves and mesmers. In a game with active combat based on damage mitigation through avoidance and skill usage, where the primary source of information about the action is visual, any class capable of prolonged invisibility or teleporting/cloning is going to have a massive advantage. The way it effectively reduces damage, stealth functions as an aoe CC without a target cap and with an effectively unlimited duration. (I have a level 80 thief, before anyone starts with the l2p crap, and been playing one since beta. It’s possible that I suck, but it feels like god mode compared to any of my other classes, bunker D/D elementalist included.)

It’s sorta ridiculous that bunker D/D elementalists are even getting mentioned here, but I guess I should just take it as a compliment. Of my different characters, it’s definitely the most fun and I would be pretty bummed if they nerfed it just because some people haven’t bothered to learn the counters.

Sinergy.6374:

I know little nothing about ele’s. I know that they are a pain to catch. They are probably the most annoying for me.

There’s the real issue. At least one person admitting their problems are based on a lack of knowledge.

An elementalist:
-coming toward you is visible (and audible) from 10 miles away
-has only a few really damaging moves, on long cooldowns, with big animations
-survivability is based mostly on boons and mobility
-has the lowest innate health and defense, any other class specced the same way will have higher everything except mobility (a shout-heal warrior can facetank stuff an elementalist HAS to run from)
-lacks burst or single target dps, hardest hits will be around 7k crits on glass/upleveled and require a combo to set up often burning an escape utility or two
-many skills have small or odd hit patterns and often miss (lightning whip, drake’s breath, etc)

A thief:
-can enter a fight from stealth, and land 3 hits before becoming visible (assuming rendering worked properly, as it stands it’s more like 5-6 hits) steal>c&d>backstab often for upwards of 10k total on even 80s in full defensive builds
-has no real cooldown on skills, allowing for the most damaging skills to be spammed then re-stealth if failing
-survivability is based on invisibility, which has many sources and can be maintained indefinitely by some builds
-has low health and moderate innate defense (this is right, no change needed)
-has crazy high burst, see first line about thieves….
-most skills auto-hit unless dodged/cc’d, I’m talking arrows following running people sideways (and bouncing back and forth between moving targets) when fireballs can just be walked away from, heartseeker vs. magnetic grasp/burning speed/rtl, c&d vs. fire grab…..

Ok, enough ranting, game time.

tl;dr
I play both elementalist and thief, and find it ridiculous that elementalists are even mentioned in this thread.

Thieves
Mesmers
D/D eles

Slamz.5376:

Same.4687:

Lol how can anyone still complain about Thieves in WvW when you simply CAN’T beat a D/D Ele that is as skilled or better than you.

Because you can see them.

The thread didn’t ask “who’s the best class” or “which class kills you most”.

The thread asks who is the most annoying. Thieves are more annoying than D/D eles. They aren’t remotely fun to fight against. Even if I beat one, it’s no fun because I spend over half the battle swinging at the air.

^
This. It’s not asking what the BEST class is, which would undoubtedly be a D/D ele played well for sure, but which is most annoying. Without a doubt that is thieves. Ironically when played WELL, which most don’t have to learn to do in WvW because of rendering issues giving them ez-mode, thieves are still at the top of the food chain competitively with the ele/mesmer due to the mechanical superiority/mobility as explained already in the thread.

The truth is that a skilled player on a thief doesn’t even NEED stealth to remain competitive with the class at all. It simply gives him an ez button as an option.

SuiRyuJin.4615:

lol, remove stealth and 90% of the thieve will splat before they even do anything. move speed is capped at 33%, its pretty simple for a number of classes to catch a thieve especially on the short distance by using their own move skills instead of just…run..

Except thieves have more/better access to those movement skills than other professions, so even if you’re matching swiftness for swiftness, you’re still not matching thief mobility.

As someone who has played a thief without any stealth skills on my bar, escaping is as easy as it is with stealth, just step out to >1200 range.

Thief.

I am a D/D ele with an embarrassing amount of experience. The thief is most annoying for two main reasons:

1) I hate thrashing at the air like a lunatic. Messes up my hair and makes me look silly.

2) When a thief realizes he is going to lose, he can just vanish and leave. I can run down most things, but I cannot run down what I cannot see. Often the losing thief is suddenly just gone. Come back here with my badges you silly little chameleon!

I’m not saying a nerf is in order, i’m just saying that that those slippery little terds are annoying.

Thief by far. Just put invis on a 1 minute cool down when a thief enters combat. They could still run away if things go bad, but at least they would not be able to stay in the same area making repeated invis runs at a player who can’t fight them back.

Clearly the answer to the original question is the class you have to attend the next day after staying up late playing

But in game for me its hard to say. I’m specced for group play and can’t really kill much 1v1. I herd enemy zergs, I rarely kill anything solo. If I had to pick one nemesis class to my elementalist it is probably Thief.

Skilled elementalists.

Thieves are obviously frustrating but I’ve mostly come across not-so-skilled ones so I’ve been able to deal with them somewhat. Just keep swinging and their low health bar will likely come down. The ones who play their cards right will win 99% of one-on-one battles though or atleast escape with their skin intact.

Mesmers can definitely annoy with a million clones among other things but I know most of their tricks by now.

Going one-on-one with a tanky guardian can take ages. I play one myself so have had some epic battles, as far as length.

the problem with thief for me can be solved this way : any hit on an invisible thief should reveal him (or have a chance to reveal him).

WoooooooooooooooooooooooW

Does this thread win an award? It was started 2 months ago and still continues to be visited!!!

“I’m betting Mesmers will top that list in open field. Curious what others felt was the most annoying class to fight”.

Hmmmm maybe its doesn’t deserve an award, the OP was wrong

Zid.4196:

best burst + guaranteed escape = problem

That’s not the problem, the problem is:
Stealth + Rendering Issues + best burst + guaranteed escape = problem

Thieves should have high burst and high escape, that is the archetype of the class. They are not supposed to near 100% invisible during combat though. The rendering/culling issues are what is causing most of the thief clkittene/whining.

Yes, people will whine about thieves no matter what. However, until the rendering/culling issue is fixed, we can’t really say if their burst damage is too high, just right, or not high enough.

I’ve never seen a worse implementation of stealth in a pvp game. Stay stealthed while attacking? Really? Insta stealth while being attacked? Really? Badly broken mechanics.

eats some doritos munch munch munch

I know alot of people complain that two base immortal/sentry protoss is OP, and everything, but really we all know that infestors with burrow, being able to stealth and squirt out infested terrans in your mineral line while casting…wait, what? Where am I? GW 2? Oh yah…well thieves definitely, I mean come on, that much burst and players not being able to react, what kind of game makes a class with insta-kills when it is suppose to be an e-sport that promotes proper skill use over an extended fight?!?! Thats just inconceivable and reminds me of the time when Tasha Yar was randomly killed on Vagra II by Amus the sludge monster in episode 23 of Star Trek the Next…wait what? I am still in the GW 2 forums?

munch munch munch

Xyre.5429:

eats some doritos munch munch munch

I know alot of people complain that two base immortal/sentry protoss is OP, and everything, but really we all know that infestors with burrow, being able to stealth and squirt out infested terrans in your mineral line while casting…wait, what? Where am I? GW 2? Oh yah…well thieves definitely, I mean come on, that much burst and players not being able to react, what kind of game makes a class with insta-kills when it is suppose to be an e-sport that promotes proper skill use over an extended fight?!?! Thats just inconceivable and reminds me of the time when Tasha Yar was randomly killed on Vagra II by Amus the sludge monster in episode 23 of Star Trek the Next…wait what? I am still in the GW 2 forums?

munch munch munch

I logged in just to say I love this post.

Well, now that I’m logged in.. My guardian doesn’t really have a problem with thieves. Only because I tend to avoid them entirely – I already know I cannot kill them, but at the same time, they cant kill me. I usually can walk away just fine, with enough of a chance to CC them the split second they are visible and generally make it to safety in time.

As it stands, if I pass by a thief in WvW, I just keep walking. There’s no point in trying to fight one.

Myrrdraal.9532:

Xyre.5429:

eats some doritos munch munch munch

I know alot of people complain that two base immortal/sentry protoss is OP, and everything, but really we all know that infestors with burrow, being able to stealth and squirt out infested terrans in your mineral line while casting…wait, what? Where am I? GW 2? Oh yah…well thieves definitely, I mean come on, that much burst and players not being able to react, what kind of game makes a class with insta-kills when it is suppose to be an e-sport that promotes proper skill use over an extended fight?!?! Thats just inconceivable and reminds me of the time when Tasha Yar was randomly killed on Vagra II by Amus the sludge monster in episode 23 of Star Trek the Next…wait what? I am still in the GW 2 forums?

munch munch munch

I logged in just to say I love this post.

Well, now that I’m logged in.. My guardian doesn’t really have a problem with thieves. Only because I tend to avoid them entirely – I already know I cannot kill them, but at the same time, they cant kill me. I usually can walk away just fine, with enough of a chance to CC them the split second they are visible and generally make it to safety in time.

As it stands, if I pass by a thief in WvW, I just keep walking. There’s no point in trying to fight one.

Thank you good sir, I hope it brought you a smile <3

You should be invulnerable to damage from unrendered players, except the first hit from a stealthed thief since that was meant to happen, but not the whole combo from an invisible thief.

Scyntrus.2458:

You should be invulnerable to damage from unrendered players, except the first hit from a stealthed thief since that was meant to happen, but not the whole combo from an invisible thief.

If this is the temporary “fix” they want to go with for culling, fine, but the culled player should also be invulnerable for the duration, it has to swing both ways.

Webley.1295:

There are to many glass cannons saying they die to quickly…… thats the issue. Glass cannon is the thiefs favorite prey

im ele.
tank+heal build.
full invaders gear.
lose immediately 75% hp from stealth. i say again – immediately. with 25% of health, i think only about survive, no game fun, no interesting fight, nothing.
start battle with 25% health, against invisible bugged thing, hello gw2 balance…
thiefs absolutely do not deserves what they get, and who make them able to do that

when I first heard Anet wasn’t going to give thieves perma stealth like they do it WoW I jumped for joy thinking these guys know how to make a thief class. Boy was I wrong.

3 months in some minor Dancing Dagger nerf (WvW) and the rest is explained by “L2P your class”

You have to listen to our mumble channel, every night you hear some outburst from a guy that has been ganked by a thief. “Oh look another kittening thief with their stupid kittening bullkitten damage!! kittening nerf that kitten!”

funny and sad at the same time.

Thief, because fighting enemies that can turn invisible whenever they want is not fun.

If I could be invisible I would do better stuff than killing arrow marked people, like, for example, stand in the WvWvW girls locker room or something.

Farzo.8410:

Thief, because fighting enemies that can turn invisible whenever they want is not fun.

This could be the heart of the issue here. Stealth isn’t unbalanced, but it isn’t much fun to counter due to the low combat feedback it provides.

Players experience a similar issue in FPS wherein no matter how well-balanced snipers are they’re still straight-up less fun to fight just due to the low-feedback nature of combat with them. Nobody likes being killed without knowing exactly how. FPS developers implemented the “kill cam” to combat this, giving a player immediate feedback on who killed them. Perhaps a similar system is in order for GW2.