Guild Wars 2

ColinJohanson.2394:

In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

I bet Square Enix responded in same way to criticism about their first iteration of Final Fantasy XIV. You know, the one before Realm Reborn. I’m sure there were people in love with that game as well.

But I’m sure people are “busy playing”. Very busy in fact. Grinding their precious life away to gain access to even the most basic features.

If I sound salty, it’s because I am. You can ignore me.
<3

To reitarate – and I am going to beat this dead horse until it is alive again – you gated basic game mechanics. Plain and simple. People can call elite specs “character progression” as much as they want but that doesn’t magically turn them into that. Elite specs are new classes.

Ashen.2907:

Several people in a scattering of threads claim to have done so.

Contact support and ask.

Yeah, figured I should do that. Just wanted to maybe find out from other players what their experiences were.

Does anyone know if it’s posssible to receive a refund just for Heart of Thorns without losing the access to the base Guild Wars 2 game?

Aidenwolf.5964:

1st. Elite specs aren’t progression they’re a class. Progression is the mastery system and that’s what was communicated. Many planned on playing HoT on our new toys after 3 years of the same classes.

Someone finally gets it! I want to kiss you! Uhm… on the cheek of course.

:)

Apologists’ main line here is them just sticking to repeating that “it’s character progression” mantra that was fed to them, instead of actually looking at what elite specs are in reality. They are tools to play with, not a longterm/end-game goal.

I wonder… if unlocking Revenant was gated behind the last, big Mastery tier and called “a form of account progression”, would those same people defend it? Probably and sadly yes, because no amount of grind seems to be bad for them.

Straylight.7529:

Acetone.4793:

Straylight.7529:

Acetone.4793:

Just think about it for one second. Why do you have to grind at all to unlock what is essentially a new class? You don’t have to grind to unlock Revenant and it makes total sense, right? Why do you have to grind to get the Reaper? It’s not ascended gear, it’s not a big accomplishment, it’s simply a different way to play. Since when does GW2 locks you from being able to enjoy different ways to play?

You are comparing a new class (Revenant) to something that isn’t a new class (elite specs).

What is your argument here? Naming conventions?

You called the elite spec a new class and based your comparison upon that assumption.

Are you even trying to engage with what I am trying to say here? Or you are going to stay hung up on the nomenclature? I will reiterate it more simply for you, so the comparisons won’t distact you anymore.

Elite specs are just a new way to play. Gating them was entirely unnecessary. Unlocking basic ways to play was never what GW2 was about. It gave you the tools and let you decide how you wanted to use them. HoT puts you on a treadmill where you use old tools before you can unlock those new tools. A smoke screen to stretch the content thin.

What they were meant to be and whether they were implemented well are two different things. So gating elite specs is basically like gating a new class. You can keep nitpicking or you can try to understand the point I am trying to make.

Straylight.7529:

Acetone.4793:

Just think about it for one second. Why do you have to grind at all to unlock what is essentially a new class? You don’t have to grind to unlock Revenant and it makes total sense, right? Why do you have to grind to get the Reaper? It’s not ascended gear, it’s not a big accomplishment, it’s simply a different way to play. Since when does GW2 locks you from being able to enjoy different ways to play?

You are comparing a new class (Revenant) to something that isn’t a new class (elite specs).

What is your argument here? Naming conventions?

Just think about it for one second. Why do you have to grind at all to unlock what is essentially a new class? You don’t have to grind to unlock Revenant and it makes total sense, right? Why do you have to grind to get the Reaper? It’s not ascended gear, it’s not a big accomplishment, it’s simply a different way to play. Since when does GW2 locks you from being able to enjoy different ways to play?

Lol at all the people who got tricked into thinking they have to grind for absolutely everything, no matter how little sense it makes. Especially in GW2 which was never meant to be a grind. The slavish-MMO-farming mindset knows no bounds.

Have you actually asked yourselves, what did you actually receive after spending your money? A treadmill that forces you to do same old things that will reward you with new stuff at some point in the future.

The fact is that HoT has hardcore features which were expected to be grinded and were advertised as such. But then on top of that the base game mechanics (specs) were gated as well. Leaving us with almost nothing new to do when we start.

Another fact is that nobody has yet asked to “get everything without effort”. People are simply asking to get anything for the money they paid.

sine.9310:

Glad I found this thread. Avoided pre-purchasing incase of a scenario like this. Only interested in playing with new specs, not interested in grinding out for 4-5 months just to play a different build lmao. Will buy once this is fixed.

Glad at least one got away unscathed and has been saved. Good luck on your life’s path, brother/sister!

Look at it this way. If being able to even create a Revenant was gated in the same manner, how would you feel? Elite specs are not a big accomplishment, they are a base game mechanic.

And so if even this is locked, what am I actually supposed to do here? Have we paid all this money just a for a treadmill that will reward us at some point in the future? What are my new toys to play around here? A new pretty, but poorly thought-out zone which I can run around while doing the same old stuff?

I don’t remember base GW2 being this way. In there I created a character and had fun with it from the start. In HoT “fun” is a distant prospect.

gavyne.6847:

Right now due to the elite spec grind, WvW players are coming together, all 3 servers agreeing to do nothing but ktrain for the next week just so people could unlock their elite specs. WvW players have voiced strongly against grinding PvE, and hundreds of WvW ranks aren’t exactly easy to achieve without full on ktraining. So instead of playing the new beautifully designed desert borderlands, people are forced to ktrain just so they have a chance at unlocking and playing their elite specs.

Due to the Masteries grind, people are grinding CoF1 to gain exceptional Central Tyria mastery points. The exp is so crazy that it renders exping elsewhere pointless for central tyria masteries.

Wow, this is actually incredible. And crazy. Hard to believe at first. I have to see how that WvW situation looks like. I know the CoF part is true, so I don’t have a reason to doubt your words about WvW. But still, wow…

Arewn.2368:

Why people take such issue with having to do a bit of content in the new zones to finish unlocking their elite spec is beyond me.

Since when does GW2 require players to grind for hours just to be able to access a new way to play? I thought it was all about options – with gold, skins, achievements, legendary gear being the long term goal. Not the base mechanics themselves. It’s comparable to grinding a whole new profession. Elite specs are essentially new professions, I don’t know why people allowed themselves to be tricked into thinking otherwise.

Ok, just realised that this is a troll topic. I’m out.
o/

Merkin.8412:

Acetone.4793:

Merkin.8412:

Xernth.8561:

Merkin.8412:

Most will miss the mark.

The true problem does not exist in the product but with the market.

Those who think will understand the sentiment of this age old quote of Aristotle;

A friend to all is a friend to no one, and thee loudest voice is that of the annoying minority.

Take heart, for the amount of money Anet has made off this glorious expansion far outweighs the undying kitten of the common millennial forum warrior.

God bless the queen!

I’ve over 40 years old. All I want to do is play the new content with my Elite spec rather than play through the content to get the spec. It seems like a pretty reasonable request.

It is as reasonable as a new player asking to have a level 80 to experience the core content right when they buy the game.

Grow up, learn to play the game like a child, so actually, maybe grow down, cause your ego is self inflated.

P.S. You are not over 40. Guessing more like 14.

And you think that effectively calling other people’s liars instead of engaging with their argument makes you look any older?

I am a toys R us kid bro.

I absolutely love the expansion.

Sue me.

Grow down, bro, grow down.

How do you know I am a “bro”?

Merkin.8412:

Xernth.8561:

Merkin.8412:

Most will miss the mark.

The true problem does not exist in the product but with the market.

Those who think will understand the sentiment of this age old quote of Aristotle;

A friend to all is a friend to no one, and thee loudest voice is that of the annoying minority.

Take heart, for the amount of money Anet has made off this glorious expansion far outweighs the undying kitten of the common millennial forum warrior.

God bless the queen!

I’ve over 40 years old. All I want to do is play the new content with my Elite spec rather than play through the content to get the spec. It seems like a pretty reasonable request.

It is as reasonable as a new player asking to have a level 80 to experience the core content right when they buy the game.

Grow up, learn to play the game like a child, so actually, maybe grow down, cause your ego is self inflated.

P.S. You are not over 40. Guessing more like 14.

And you think that effectively calling other people’s liars instead of engaging with their argument makes you look any older?

Someone very calmly presented their point of view and you are projecting and jumping at them like crazy.

Phy.2913:

It is gated. I have to level it to 80, which I don’t enjoy, in order to start enjoying it.

At least you can use it from the start. A few clicks and bam, ready to go. Can’t say the same about the elite specs. You have to farm before you can even find out whether you’re going to like them or not.

After hours of reading the forum this is what I found:

People’s main complaint about HoT
“It takes too much points to unlock Elite Specs, can you make it just a bit more accessible?”

Response from the rest
“You n00b QQing whiners, you want to have everything for free without any effort at all? No amount of grind is bad.”

The facts
Basic content/game mechanic locked behind an entirely unncessary grind to conceal the overall lack of fresh content.

Since when is having the very access to toys supposed to be farmed in GW2? There is nothing elite about elite specs except for the name. They are basically like a new type of a profession, yet they cannot be used to enjoy the new content until you spend days in the new zone doing the same old stuff you’ve been doing for years. This is such a blatant attempt at stretching the lacking content thin, it hurts.

It occured to me that this is almost exactly what Bungie did with Destiny. That game’s content was far from being even acceptable in its variety and volume, so their had to employ some really, really bad and antiquated systems to stretch the grind out.

All the new elite specialisations seem to cost hundreds of Hero Points to fully unlock. Surely this must have been a mistake?! Pls fix.

The Spiral King.2483:

I see you made the common mistake of playing Ranger. Anet has done its best over the years to gently remind players that this is not acceptable, but the stubborn playerbase refuses to see reason. There was a smattering of positive feedback about the Ranger’s elite specialization in the last BWE. Anet saw this, and corrected the problem.

It was funny until I realised how true it was and then I got sad.

Let’s look at the package we are paying for here. PvE-wise.

Raid(s)
Endgame for the most dedicated and skilled.
It is what was advertised as far as I know.

Mastery System
Endgame grind for your account rather than your characters.
More or less what was advertised.

Elite Specialisations
Big end game grind to unlock basic mechanics? It wasn’t advertised this way nor was it really needed to be a big grind.

The Heart of Maguuma
New zone where you have to farm by doing all the old stuff before you can do any new stuff.

The one thing I’d like people to think about is: “What are new things I am getting when I buy HoT? What cool new toys I have?” The fact is that you get very little in the first place and then most features require heavy grind or are geared towards top players.

There is little to no reason to gate the specs. I don’t see why an opportunity to use new, but essentially base mechanics, should be seen as any sort of accomplishment. We are not talking about wanting things that really are a sign of your investment into the game – gold or materials collected, ascended armor or legendary weapons equipped, skins or achievements unlocked. We are talking about the ability to swing your weapon.

Fun? What fun? I will tell you when I find any. <trollface>

I’m going to add my two cents to this discussion. I don’t really have any major complaints about other components of the expansion so far, except for the elite specialisation thing. It is mind boggling on almost every level and actually made me stay away from HoT entirely. It is a sort of a bottleneck that I can’t force myself to go through and I can’t see why does it have to be there.

First of all, “elite” doesn’t mean “only for the chosen ones/dedicated players”. It’s purely a technical term that is used to distinguish non-elite specs from those unique ones. The natural assumption always was that more of them will be coming in future releases and your character sheet will only allow for one of those to be active at any one time. Anyone who says it is supposed to be grinded or “earned” actually ignores Guild Wars 2’s own nomenclature. Think about the “elite skills” at the end of you skill bar. They aren’t “elite” because they have to be grinded, they just compete for one exlusive slot on your skill bar and have more power to compensate for that.

Putting those technicalities behind us, and even ignoring them entirely, I still have no idea why such a basic gameplay mechanism is gated behind a significant amount of grind or any grind at all. In my mind it should have been comparable to the effort that’s needed for all non-elite basic traits and skills etc. I actually don’t think it is that crazy to demand this feature to be available (or at least more accessible with a symbolic amount of grind) from the get-go. You paid for it, didn’t you? It looks like a smoke screen that is being used to hide the overall lack of fresh and enticing content.

It also goes so much against what GW2 always stood for – playing your way and being rewarded no matter what you do, but having all the base avenues more or less open. It was up to you to choose whether you wanted to engage, but the options were there. I don’t feel like I have those options here. Granted, I personally despise grind in most shapes of form. But base GW2 content never felt like a grind, it was as much a joyous exploration of Tyria, as it was an exploration of game mechanics, trying out new weapons and skills. I feel like at least that last component is sorely missing here.

I decided to avoid the HoT content entirely and go back to leveling new characters in the base game until something is done here or I exhaust all other ways to play. The issue of elite specs is very important to me, because in my mind without having easy access to them, HoT is just a couple of pretty regions to run around in, where you can do the same old stuff you’ve done for years. Masteries are not a particularly big feature, raids are going to be inaccessible to a big chunk of the player base (remember, this is how ANet wanted them to be).

Notice that almost all features in HoT are hidden behind some sort of a grind. Even story. We basically paid for a huge treadmill here, and base GW2 wasn’t like that at all. It’s like the ratio of “new exciting stuff to do, you paid for it and it’s yours to play with” and “end game grind for the dedicated” has been switched here. GW2 had a lot of the former, with some of the latter. In HoT the most basic features have to be unlocked.

I may be in minority or majority, I don’t care. You know this one person here is not going to engage with your new content anytime soon.