Showing Posts For Admired.7461:
Picked out a few odd things:
1) On-Crit sigil on MH dagger with a 9% crit rate isn’t too good. Consider on swap or permanent.
2) Furious Demise (fury is 400 prec) may offer a greater damage boost than Deadly Strength
3) Can only see one siphon on your build (on hit, 15pts BM). Not sure improving this by 50% merits the use of a trait.
I haven’t mucked about with Deathly Invigoration in a while, but last I checked it didn’t heal enough to be worth it even with 5s DS CD… your call though!
I took some of your suggestions because they were mathematically better.
At the same time, I think you’re underrating the 50% increase in Siphon Life. Every time you hit an opponent with any non-condition ability, you deal some bonus damage. This means you’re always leeching. You’re boosting this healing and the bonus damage by 50%. Also, it affects your Dagger 2, surprisingly. It’s the best way to get heals.
Let’s look at how many heals we’re getting per 10 seconds (CD of DS) with our 275 HP.
Deathly Invigoration heals for 355. Regen heals for 164 per second.
164*10 + 355 = 1995 per 10 seconds.
This is not including all the Siphon Life + Dagger 2.
Looking at other healing abilities:
Dagger Mastery brings Life Siphon down to ~10 seconds, but your enemies can dodge.
Vampiric Precision relies on crits, and you need to crit 7 times at least.
Vampiric Master… minions… you know this one… :/
Oh, and RoV… well, there’s a problem with those. Sometimes (when they’re damaged? not sure exactly) they stop proccing – I test for the proc cessation by casting my heal – if it fails to proc the hit on heal effect, then I know the 5% chance to hit on heal (2 rune bonus) is borked.
The way to fix the RoV bug is to remove and replace 5 armour pieces to reset the 2, 4 and 6 set bonuses.
Without getting the 4 rune bonus, how can you tell when the rune 2 bonus si bugged and no longer proccing?
I didn’t take into account broken pieces of armor. If it’s a bug, I think it’s silly if we have to work around it, don’t you think? IMO, kind of irrelevant since you should repair.
Your input was most helpful.
(edited by Admired.7461)
You’re complaining about the lack of Necromancer-themed gear, really?
Is Arah armor not enough? It’s as Necromancer as you can get since the whole
game freakin’ revolves around our Profession. Even kittenty Trahearne is a Necromancer
before he got his lame kitten sword.In fact, a lot of Elementalists and Mesmers like to copy us and wear our gear.
Arah gear looks hideous on a charr
I also hate the way the weapons look.
Silly man, you never hide the face of a Charr.
Everything else should like fine. Use the right colors!
Everyone likes to do dungeons!
I noticed from experience how invaluable rolling (dodging, evading, whatever) has become to almost every boss. It gives you nearly 100% invulnerability. The first 1/10 (estimate) of the roll you can take a hit, but after that, you are free from danger. In fact, about 1/10 of a second after the roll, you are still considered dodging.
My question is:
Where did you (ANet) adapt the roll? Was it from Monster Hunter?
Yes, I played Monster Hunter where rolling was a significant part of the game. Of course, only a very small part of the roll allowed invulnerability. If you did not get it from this, how was the idea ever brought up?
I guess another would be:
Is it fair how some bosses heavily rely on your dodging capabilities but to the point where the standard Endurance Regeneration isn’t enough? ie tougher path encounters make Subject Alpha more aggressive, so you have to use your roll. Of course, some professions lack the ability to gain enough Endurance to constantly roll. Eventually, this leads to their death (lack of Vigor or hidden evasive/invulnerability abilities)
For those of you fans of the games, yes, I am AdmiredFob from YouTube. I self-proclaim myself to be the best American MH player. www.youtube.com/admiredfob
Lupi can’t be easy on any class, even on a thief, so gz. I didn’t watch the video, is it a one-shot kill or just heartseeker spam?
We see what you did there
(edited by Admired.7461)
Btw Lich form has Marked for Death and Mark of Horror, also Lich Crits, Crit% damage, the on third chain hit of the minion that does 90% more damage than the other 2 and oh right, AOE does exist thus Golem will die on every worthwile boss that exists in game at least once.
Marked for Death isn’t worth using. Too lazy to do the math for you, but you would have to do 15 auto-attacks after applying Marked for Death to make it worth it. You can only get 13 attacks at the most before the Vulnerability wears out. IDK how strong Marked for Horror is, and they would have to do AT LEAST 18k damage for them to be worthwhile.
I would hope your post isn’t supposed to sound aggressive. If you include critical damage for Lich Form, you have to include it for the Golem / auto-attack formula too.
We cross out common denominators for a reason.
This reminds me, and I didn’t see it brought up in the thread: Lich Form increases your power (1832) and precision (916), so I think Taril’s
1000 * 2400 * 2.6 / 1800 = 3466
Should at least be
1000 * 4232 * 2.6 / 1800 = 6113
And needs to in some way to account for the increased chance to crit. (Unless that’s already in the 2.6 coefficient? I’m not totally sure how to get that particular number.) In any case, the increased precision gives around 40% chance to crit at level 80, I believe.I’d suggest multiplying both results (Lich Form and Flesh Golem) by something like
((0.50 + (Critical Damage / 100)) * (Critical Chance / 100) + 1)
to give a good approximation of the added damage from crits. (Formula stolen from this wiki page, though I did manage to independently create something a lot like it myself earlier.)If this is included somewhere in the calculations already, my apologies.
Already included, but all inputs are helpful.
One thing, Flesh Golem is as smart as a donkey with a carrot stick and dies as fast as a rabbit thrown into a wolf den on numerous dungeons, also no Agony Resistance. Golem is fun for general pvp, but lich form is almost ontop of the best elites of the game (Moa, Lich, Time Warp, Renewed Focus, Entangle, Supply Crate, Plague).
I’m not sure where everyone is getting the “Pets are super dumb” idea from. Maybe, it’s the other pets doing this, but the Flesh Golem is far from having terrible AI. If you attack something, it will attack with you. If something attacks you, the Golem will defend you. I’d say the AI is pretty far from “dumb as dumb and dumb.”
You’re right, the Flesh Golem doesn’t have AR, but it’s not like Agony is up 100% of the time. The boss applying Agony the most would have to be… the Jumping Puzzle boss, and he generally aims towards players. The only other threat I see is the Cliff boss. :/
Also, if anyone wants to explain the Lich Form “HP” problem, please do
Using an average amount of Power and Armour:
Dagger #1:
953 * 2400 * 0.6 / 1800 = 762
953 * 2400 * 0.4 / 1800 = 508
953 * 2400 * 0.8 / 1800 = 1016
This chain takes 2 seconds to complete so it ends up being 2286 / 2 = 1143 DPSLich Form #1
1000 * 2400 * 2.6 / 1800 = 3466
Attacks approximately 0.75 times a second so it ends up being 3466 * 0.75 = 2599 DPSI can’t find out the attack rate of the Flesh Golem, but do know that minions don’t scale off your gear so would be a flat amount of DPS regardless of build.
The numbers would favour the Flesh Golem for overall DPS (With 11% uptime Lich Form would provide 285 DPS overall)
But Lich provides the highest burst damage, combined with other cooldowns (Such as Time Warp) Lich Form becomes much better against bosses.
It would also depend on if you’re fighting things with a lot of AoE aswell, since the Flesh Golem could be killed off (I know mine dies within 1-3 hits due to my liking of going against tougher things)
Ideally you’d use Flesh Golem for trash and swap to Lich Form (Since as long as he’s not dead and cooling down and Charge isn’t cooling down you’re free to swap elites) for boss fights to get the burst damage (After popping Utilities/weapon skills etc)
Not sure how you found the Armor values / Damage coefficients, but those numbers seem right… My only problem is your numbers for Lich Form. I can’t even come to hitting close to 3k with Lich Form. For the Daggers, I do more than your numbers, which is reasonable for the Dummy’s I’m attacking in LA, but Lich Form is nowhere near 3x the damage of my final attack. If anything, it is 50% stronger than my final dagger attack, AT THE MOST. I’ll change it for you.
The Golem seems to be attacking at a rate of 1 attack per 1.25 seconds. It hits on average for the same damage as my first dagger attack (first 2 hits out of 4). Not exact numbers, but very well close enough. In other words, ~762 damage.
The Charge was very difficult to calculate because multiple numbers always show up. At LEAST 1 four-digit number would appear and a few three-digit numbers. The cast time for the charge is .75 seconds. The cast time for the summon is 1.5 seconds. The big number was generally over 1500 easily, and the smaller numbers tended to be between 200 and 300. For easy numbers and leniency, the Golem will do about 2,000 damage per charge cast. The Charge duration is about 1.25 seconds.
Using YOUR numbers, let’s go over math for a simulation of 200 seconds. This duration is fair because it accounts for the full duration of Lich Form and its CD timer. We will also assume we go into combat with the Golem already out. At the same time, since we cannot calculate how often the pet dies, we’ll have to summon my pet twice, so it will be out for a total of 3 times. The pet will survive for 20 seconds, which is very reasonable and very fair. The test will consist auto-attacking / Lich Form vs auto-attacking / Pet Charge / Pet Summon. The start of the Lich Form transformation will be the start of the simulation.
Correction Lich Form Damage (favoring LF on math)
Final Dagger attack x 1.5
1016 × 1.5 = 1524 every .75 seconds
1524 / .75 ~ 2032 damage per second
Pet Auto-attack DPS
762 / 1.25 ~609 damage per second
Lich Form + auto-attacking:
(20 × 2032) +(180 × 1143) =
40640 + 205,740 =
246,380
Pet Charge + Pet auto-attacking + auto-attacking:
200 – (5.25) = 194.75 seconds of player auto-attacking
(20 × 3) – (1.25 × 3) = 56.25 seconds of Golem auto-attacking
(194.75 × 1143) + (56.25 × 609) + (2000 × 3) =
222,599 + 34,256 + 600 =
262,855
Flesh Golem seems to be superior damage by a good amount. Please remember,
we assume the Golem dies after 20 seconds. In reality, it sometimes takes longer to die, or it sometimes takes less time to die. We also assume the opponent is not against the wall, or the Charge would do much greater and incalculable damage.
As for Lich Form, I did not include the time to put the auto-attack into “auto-attack mode.” Of course, I didn’t want bugs to be a detrimental part of the math, so I assumed we would auto-attack no matter what.
If anyone sees something wrong or have questions, please speak up. Thanks
This topic is strictly a discussion between Lich Form and Flesh. Plague will be completely ignored. Please, only people who know the math or know what they’re talking about should respond/post. Thank you.
Today, I was running a dungeon (FOTM) with some PUGs. An “experienced” Necromancer (since Beta apparently) stated the Flesh Golem is practically useless vs Lich Form in PVE aspects (PVP was not brought up. WVW = PVP). This made me think a little bit since I’ve tried doing the math before.
Using Lich Form lasts for 20 seconds with a 180 second CD. This gives us a 10% uptime. Within this 10%, you lose all your main spells, utilities, and Death Shroud. As opposed to the Golem, you keep everything.
The Golem hits for a fairly high amount of damage during its auto attack, and it hits even harder for the charge. If the target is against a wall during the charge, they will receive MANY ticks of the charge + Blowout. If the pet dies, it can be summoned after 1 minute. The charge has a CD of 40 seconds.
From my understanding and looking at numbers, holding the same gear set-up and build, you can do more damage from Dagger auto-attacks than the Lich Form auto-attack. Any utility provided by Lich (Boon/Condition removal / Knockback) could be provided by your own abilities / Flesh Golem. Lich only gives you some survivability, but even then, I’ve heard it doesn’t keep you at the same health percentage returning to normal form.
Can anyone give me any insite on this? Perhaps, you could supply some math if needed. Within a 5 minute window, which provides more damage (Different pet uptime).
Here’s my build:
Dagger/Warhorn + Staff Consume Conditions Spectral Walk Well of Suffering Well of Corruption Flesh Golem 20(VI)(VII)/0/25(IV)(V)/0/25(III)(V)
Again, only useful theorycrafters, please.