Guild Wars 2

(anet)
Now and then I think of all the times your suggestions screwed us over
Had us believing that there was nothing to be done
But I don’t want to earn my pay that way
Reading every word you say
You said that you couldn’t let the endgame go
And the catch is you now quit this game that you used to know

(player)
But you didn’t have to cut me off
Make out like the manifesto never happened and that we were nothing
And I don’t even need your game
But you treat me like a stranger and that feels so rough
No you didn’t have to stoop so low
Have your ncsoft collect your checks and change your office
I guess I dont want that though
Now you’re a just a game studio that I used to know

(x2)
A game
(I used to know)
A game
(now your just a game studio that I used to know)

(I used to know)
(that I used to play)
(I used to play)
Somebody

Parody on Somebody I Used To Know (ft. Kimbra)- Gotye

(player)
Now and then I think of when we were together
Like when I said I felt so happy that you wouldn’t lie
Told myself that you were right for me
But that was love and it’s an ache I still remember

You can get addicted to a certain kind of game
But like resignation, the grind always comes in the end
So you thought the horizontal could not make sense
Now you said with the vertical we could make friends
But I’ll admit that I thought the grind was over

But you didn’t have to cut me off
Make out like the manifesto never happened and that we were nothing
And I don’t even need your game
But you treat me like a stranger and that feels so rough
No you didn’t have to stoop so low
Have your ncsoft collect your checks and change your office
I guess I dont want that though
Now you’re a just a game studio that I used to know

(chorus)
Now you’re just a game studio that I used to know
Now you’re just a game studio that I used to know

Timebomb thats just with a blue infusion? Scary to think what a higher rank one would do. Would we be hitting around the 15 % mark with an exotic or ascendent infusion you think?

Zynthetic.2954:

xiv.7136:

Just leave for a while and play something else.

You’ll be back soon enough

Yep. When Arenanet realise ascended gear was the dumbest idea ever, and admit they kittened up and apologise.

Then people will come back.

This. While there are going to be those who have lost trust in arenanet and not come back, a very good majority of the horde who have quit/are quitting would come right back if ascended was removed.

Fiontar.4695:

NoZaku.7120:

Fiontar.4695:

NoZaku.7120:

the biggest thing i hate about the infusions is it will basically make runes, sigils, crests and gems obsolete.

because you have to use infusions to further progress in PvE.

No, they don’t. Infusions are specifically geared to allowing players to push deeper into the difficulty of Fractals of the Mist. They have nothing to do with any other form of PvE play; world PvE nor non-FotM Dungeons.

FotM is a pretty unique take on the Dungeon Crawl. I see FotM as almost separate mode of play in the same way that sPvP and WvW are almost games with in a game. Some people will dedicate much time and effort to FotM. Some will dablle and others will ignore the dungeon entirely and find there fun elsewhere.

I will be shocked beyond belief if Infusions ever are needed for progression in World PvE or in any of the other Dungeons available in game. I can’t rule out some other form of PvE content in the future that would take advantage of infusions, but Arenanet seems committed to expanding FotM on a fairly regular basis in the months and years to come. It’s possible we may see more stand-alone dungeons in the future, but I have a feeling that FotM will be the main focus for ongoing Dungeon development.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/
read the “The Future of item progression”

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

its heavily implied that infusions is needed to further progress in end game PvE content

It’s heavily implied by piecing together all the Arenanet and officially sourced third part articles that FotM is the framework with in which evolving “end game” content will be housed. I have to keep going back to the article that stated that FotM will be regularly expanded over the months and YEARS to come.

It is entirely possible, if not probable, that the eventuality of full sets of Ascended Gear could be a year or two down the road.

Look, I am really hoping there will be some degree of isolation between the gear inflation introduced to provide progression through FotM and the rest of the game world. A semi-isolated gear treadmill is a lot more acceptable to me than one that bleeds heavily out into the rest of the game. If this is not the case in actuality, it’s something I will push for. I don’t want out of control gear inflation ruining this game.

To be honest, I just can’t imagine Arenanet risking the game with anything other than a very measured approach to introducing an ongoing end game progression for those who desire such a thing. If I’m wrong and we are on the path to Ascended Gear that will completely trivialize Exotics and becomes a requirement for content outside of FotM, I’ll be grabbing my own pitchfork.

However, we do not have enough information to make that determination. IF we should be able to discern a clear, ongoing path to spiraling gear inflation, it will be a very good thing that the introduction of the system is just Rings and Back Armor, as it will be much easier to win a scaling back of future inflation due to the incomplete nature of the initial “sample” of the new system.

I have to give Arenanet the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. If we do need a fight, we’ll have plenty of time to try to shape the direction of the new system with out throwing up our hands and boycotting or rage quitting.

The subject is currently 90% speculation and rage/fear/recrimination are wasted with out more fact and meaningful dialogue with the developers.

I dont think its rage quitting at this point. Its a “I was told this wouldn’t happen and guess what happened so Im leaving” matter. While I am not going to pick up the game again until this is fixed (which I sincerely hope it will be), I am perfectly willing to discuss this as long as it takes.

The real problem here is we are in the bunkering down phase of a pr disaster. The only real impact that can be made is by not letting up on the discourse and continuing it nonstop. I just have to wonder if the “we will give out items” that a few reds have said are faux olive branches. Actually Im pretty sure they are, hopefully we can weather that and keep discussing and pressuring arenanet to not kill their game.

Taerik.3405:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

I got needlessly frustrated over the last few days it seems.
I dont understand why they felt they had to slowly bring the players UP to full legendary stats.
I am glad to hear this stuff is available through many more methods than just the new fractal dungeon.
I am bummed that I have to regear my toons.

But the question remains, why do we need this? Its a complete departure from what we expected, and the gap they keep talking about frankly doesnt exist.

Omega.1473:

@ Osprey : You’re forgetting the easiest way to get Exotics through WvWvW – buy it off the TP with gold. I’ve made a profit on most nights in the Mists and was able to buy an Exalted medium helm to transmute with my earnings.

Can we do that with Ascended gear? Nope. Everything so far is account bound.

And even then, WHY should we have to rebuy gear? There was no such thing as a gap between exotics and legendaries. Why did they feel the need to make such a gap and force us to regear?

I spent hour upon hour upon hour getting one of my characters fully exoticed and my other close to that point. Then came all the time grinding up gear just for the visual aspect and then transmuting it.

All out the window in one patch. So, yes its exciting, just like getting bit by a snake is exciting in a very bad way.

All my friends from real life that would have already left because of the patch. None of the others I would be able to get into this, either because of the patch’s contents, or because I wouldnt want to try to get them into an mmorpg that was pulling the kind of things this one pulled.

You guys think that ring is bad, have you check out Solaria Circle of the sun yet? It has even crazier stats and the infusion on the image was even worse …

BurnedToast.3781:

Sky.9347:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS

Satisfying.

For the uninitiated: see the little uptick up too Nov. 7, that’s a result of “new content and balance patches coming!” – see the drop after it, that’s because “and a brand new tier of gear!”.

Info dump on ascended gear + forum riot happened on the 12/13th.

NCsoft stock price fell off a cliff on the 8th.

So yeah, you can’t blame it on this, as much as I wish you could.

Yes it fell off a cliff before then, but man did it truly bottom out on the info dump day. It then upticked with the patch and then bottomed out again thanks to people realizing the junk went ingame.

Loosifah.4739:

Well you’ve seen the direction this is heading people. No point whining about it anymore. Either stick around; or don’t.

Uninstalling now unfortunately. It was fun while it lasted. Will only reinstall and come back if they remove ascended and abandon this insane vertical progression model.

Rhydian.5412:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Well I wasn’t going to log in until the 19th anyway. My own protest. Problem is, I probably won’t log in after that either. Just not really any point to it anymore. I’ve been reduced to scrub status by yet another developer.

We only have one option it seems stick to hard core sandbox pvp games, I dont see another alternative. Maybe a few of the Sci fi games coming out as well, hell I have been playing the DayZ mod for 3 days now, OMG actual world pvp it’s been so so long. Fantasy mmorpgs just seem to want to screw us over every time. They cant introduce world pvp, or fix broken classes but gear treadmill just for carebears,….. no problem.

I truly is frustrating. Every mmo that seems to have promise utterly fails with stupid stupid stupid design decisions. Its sad to because their early incarnations have so much hope.

Not to mention how much hope and excitement everyone had for a game made by anet that used horizontal progression. Guess thats all out the window now. Maybe mmos just cant get over the remains of everquest and wow, I dont know but Im slowly starting to think that the genre is not worth looking into anymore.

Sky.9347:

We finally got our answer. We did it by being bystanders to the newest marketing outreach to unhappy vertical progression MMO players.

I understand what happened. The development team was what we bought, the “Live” team is who is now in charge.

Beta through release was a fantastic game with some flaws.
The first content update, managed by the Live team, used “industry standards” to “respond” to their most “dedicated players”.

I do want to know where these two gentlemen who pioneered horizontal progression in Guild Wars 1 have gone, and if there is any legal way for the original developers to speak up I would like to hear it.

It’ s been fun.

That it has been. I can honestly say I truly enjoyed myself until this point. But as with everything, ascended gear and infusion are the line I will not cross.

Agrik.7465:

Maarius 16 minutes ago
how important for you is vertical progression in GW2?
IsaiahCartwright @Maarius 36 seconds ago
All progression is important to us, we want to make sure our rewards and progression systems hit a spectrum of players and makes everyone feel excited to play the game.

This is more of an answer… Unfortunately not the one I wanted to hear, “vertical progression” is important in a nutshell

slumps

Yeah, the more I read of that the more I am realizing there is no hope whatsoever.

Oh my, did you guys see that post “All progression is important to us, we want to make sure our rewards and progression systems hit a spectrum of players and makes everyone feel excited to play the game.” when asked if they cared about vertical progression.
G
G

Sad isnt it, I had honestly hoped this game would be different. But as with every other mmo that has come out since wow, I feel cheated, frustrated, and depressed as I leave the game.

You know? I was planning on logging in for the lost shores event, I dont think Ill do that now. Going to just simply log on, say goodbye to my guild, then log off and delete the game.

Crater.1625:

Total PR doublespeak, ignoring the fact that many, many people have pointed out that there is no progression gap between Exotics and Legendaries, whether statistical or in terms of acquisition difficulty.

Yep they just wanted to create an artifical gating mechanism (infusion) and another tier to keep people playing. Its funny though, this very action is forcing me to leave.

Loosifah.4739:

Freyar (Who’s… 3 hours ago
I’m concerned over ascended gear. Is Guild Wars 2 supposed to be moving towards traditional MMO progression? One of the reasons I stepped away from WoW and others was so that I could enjoy an MMO at my own pace without the risk of being excluded by something like Gear Score.
IsaiahCartwright @Freyar (Who’s best… 3 hours ago
I can see your concern, our goal with ascended items is to fill the gap in our progression between exotics and legendary as well as give us a new tool with the infusion slot to give more depth of rewards by offering new and interesting infusions that are directed at different game types.

And that answers absolutely nothing, we have gotten just as much from the blogpost, not to mention there is no gap in progression…

Ostra.3927:

Ferguson.2157:

pjdct.8176:

Live Q&A with Lead Designer Isaiah Cartwright at 6 Eastern

http://kotaku.com/5960951/the-lead-designer-of-guild-wars-2-is-answering-your-questions-right-now

I saw one “hard” question come up – the third question – it was magically deleted and unanswered.

This is all just a PR sales snowjob interview.

Yep I posted a ration none inflammatory question about stat tiers and the future plans and it was deleted. Reposted again… and deleted.

This “any questions” is a sham.

Same, and the very same thing happened to me.

Ferguson.2157:

pjdct.8176:

Live Q&A with Lead Designer Isaiah Cartwright at 6 Eastern

http://kotaku.com/5960951/the-lead-designer-of-guild-wars-2-is-answering-your-questions-right-now

I saw one “hard” question come up – the third question – it was magically deleted and unanswered.

This is all just a PR sales snowjob interview.

Yep its pretty horrendous so far, but then again I wasnt expecting any answer from this. Especially since they just push the patch out with the junk in it and havent responded to us besides that silly post the other day.

Well according to the notes infusions AND ascendent gear is being released. I guess Im done with this game now. Going to stick around to see the lost shores event then ill be deleting it from the harddrive.

Flynch.6034:

Ferguson.2157:

Flynch.6034:

To be honest their intention at the moment may be completely pure and they genuinely have no plans or reason to implement a further tier. But if they launch an expansion in a year’s time and it has some more gear in it with a difference in stats, then being explicitly ambiguous about it is their back-up. Can’t blame them really.

I won’t tolerate willfull deception for any reason from a company that wants my business.

I can deal with plans being changed, if I’m told of it in a timely manner. Changing plans that are contrary to what one has told ones customers and remaining quiet about it is wrong, rude, and dishonest. Some folks live in areas where it is also illegal under civil law (I wish I lived in one). Here’s hoping that they get some huge fines imposed on them to correct this moral deficiency of lying to customers.

Surely the problem here is that things do change. If it’s seen that they had this intention from the day they launched their PR manifesto, then yes that’s certainly bad news for them. But post-launch it’s a trickier beast.

So they have now been put in a position where they cannot give any specifics else in the future something might change and they will be mauled again.

If we want transparency from a company, they need to know that their news will be received intelligently and thoughtfully. Many have done so, but a majority have gone right off the deep-end. I’m not defending Anet and i’m not defending the forums. But we have an impasse right now and it’s damaging the future of the game. They need to be absolutely fearless and show total transparency, and the forum has to take this on board and open up sensible negotiations.

The majority of us are going through it thoughtfully and sensibly. Dont confuse being sensible with blindly accepting it. Myself and others came for a specific (no new gear tiers), and that specific that was touted as being the core of the game is being changed.

Hence why myself and others are on the verge of leaving and are trying to get arenanet to change it. We respect and like this game to much to not have tried to keep it compatible with us playing it.

cherrie.8907:

Angrec.6970:

cherrie.8907:

I’ve read the responses made on the German forum and I must say, I am still disappointed.

They knew the changes will cause anger and they expected it, but still they decided to make the announcement about the new gear basically as late as possible, thus denying the players any possibility of planning their actions / purchases accordingly. Thanks so much.

They are hoping that “releasing the new gear slowly will mitigate the feeling of a treadmill”. Yes, because they very well know it is a …. treadmill and instead of option for something else, they decided to just try to powder it up as much as possible. How sweet.

I am still asking myself why the whole Infusion Progression business wasn’t bolted down to a new gear slot altogether, leaving almost everyone happy.

Even infusion in itself is a horrendous thing. Every other game that had it had to remove it due to how much players absolutely despised it. Not to mention its negative aspects on gameplay.

I know.
However, Infusion in itself is kind-of separate system easy to remove (like LotRO removed Radiance) and who knows, maybe, just maybe, ANet would manage to pull it off. If not, they could remove it.
But gear upgrade is a one-time thing.

Yeah thats why I have repeatedly said if that aspect goes live im done with this game and ip. I could probably live with infusion, even though I have personally experienced similar and know how much of a horrible thing it is. It would only be tolerable because of the fact that it could easily be removed, unlike a new tier of gear.

cherrie.8907:

I’ve read the responses made on the German forum and I must say, I am still disappointed.

They knew the changes will cause anger and they expected it, but still they decided to make the announcement about the new gear basically as late as possible, thus denying the players any possibility of planning their actions / purchases accordingly. Thanks so much.

They are hoping that “releasing the new gear slowly will mitigate the feeling of a treadmill”. Yes, because they very well know it is a …. treadmill and instead of option for something else, they decided to just try to powder it up as much as possible. How sweet.

I am still asking myself why the whole Infusion Progression business wasn’t bolted down to a new gear slot altogether, leaving almost everyone happy.

Even infusion in itself is a horrendous thing. Every other game that had it had to remove it due to how much players absolutely despised it. Not to mention its negative aspects on gameplay.

Loosifah.4739:

Then I guess a bunch of you are leaving for good; because they are putting ascension and infusion gear into the game.

Such a shame that you can’t get over them adding a single tier to the top after only 3 months of the game being released. But I guess everyone wants their ‘hard work’ of doing whatever they wanted to to make money for gear to not have been in vain.

I cant get over it because I joined this game SPECIFICALLY because of the whole promise of “hit max gear and not have to keep regearing”, plus gw1’s example of doing this. I played wow for years and got tired of the constant gear progression, I came to this because of the lack of that and the combat system. So one of the key reasons I came for is being removed? No, if I wanted that type of game I would go play wow again.

tkalamba.2541:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

To register my displeasure, I won’t be logging in for the Lost Shores event. Anyone else?

Not I, the whole Lost Shore’s event looks too interesting. Why not skip the dungeon, and enjoy the rest of the content? The whole concept of basically colonizing the island sounds awesome.

Im leaving the game if they put the ascendent gear in and possibly still will if they leave infusion in (experienced it before in other games and dont want to have to deal with that again), but I will at least show my support for the stellar events (mk event was fantastic) by at least logging in to see them before I leave the game. Ill at least show my support for that team that way.

Naoko.7096:

Arreyanne.2683:

Would I have purchased the game had I had knowledge that they intended to infuse a gear treadmill, or gear progression system. When they repeatedly said that they would not?

They already clarified that the ascended tier isn’t the start of a gear treadmill model but just part of the big update to strengthen/fixes the progression of the game as a whole.

The problem with that, is there is no gap that I have found. There is an exotic weapon at every point all the way up to and ABOVE legendaries (mjolnir and infinite light cost the same to more then legendaries).

Check out http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Other_Items that is just some of the more high end options to chose from. The biggest issue I find is, that since the recipes are only listed in places like that wiki, how to obtain said items is not well known leading to the feelings of there being a huge gap between the random drop tp items and legendaries.

enos.1580:

I’ll bet nothing of real substance will be addressed. It’s less than a day to the whole patch, it’s just a PR puff piece. There’s no way anything substantive will be discussed or revealed, at least not in time for anyone to do anything about it.

Spot on, it will be to late to change anything at that point, and if they go through with the patch the game will already have started to failcascade.

Amulrei.4973:

Angrec.6970:

Man the closer we get to the launch of this, the more worried I am, especially with such silence/pr stuff coming from arenanet. I dont want to have to leave, but if this goes live Ill experience the lost shore events then do so.

I just honestly cant understand why they have to put in infusion and a higher tier of gear (especially this early). I really cannot find any sort of gap between legendaries and exotics (exotics that cost/time investment that go up from nothing to legendary standards, some like mjolnir cost more then a legendary), and them leaving the manifesto behind really confuses me.

Indeed. The fact they waited to the last moment to spring this change on us shows not only how little they actually value player input but they knew this change would take a lot of flak from the majority of players. Long story short, AN got greedy and are trying to make the game more WoW-centric in a pitiful attempt to milk more box sales. As much as I love this game, I really do hope it bites them in the kitten Hard.

I think it is already biting them. The way they have responded to this outcry, and the outcry on every other forum that is gw2 related shows they must have completely not expected this response. I just hope they made a mistake and didnt expect this kinda response and will change the patch, but I dont think reality will be so kind.

What truly sucks is those that have already packed up and left just because this was proposed, wont be back. Two friends from real life did just that, and talking to them they told me they will never return. A third friend that plays this I have managed to talk into waiting with me till this actually hits and to see the lost shore events before leaving. Im truly frustrated because those two friends, even if arenanet changes this patch, will not be back.

Man the closer we get to the launch of this, the more worried I am, especially with such silence/pr stuff coming from arenanet. I dont want to have to leave, but if this goes live Ill experience the lost shore events then do so.

I just honestly cant understand why they have to put in infusion and a higher tier of gear (especially this early). I really cannot find any sort of gap between legendaries and exotics (exotics that cost/time investment that go up from nothing to legendary standards, some like mjolnir cost more then a legendary), and them leaving the manifesto behind really confuses me.

The back and a ring are all thats coming out at first but they plan on putting an entire set out and “soon”. Also ascendent is about 8% better than a exotic.

So take it as you will, but when they put out full sets of ascendent, exotics will be nigh on worthless.

I left wow because I was tired of constantly having to keep up with everyone else to remain competitive. Same goes for this game, if it goes in and has better stats I really cant see myself logging in anymore.

Not to mention the headache that infusion will bring, I already did that with resistance gear in vanilla wow raiding, I absolutely refuse to do that again.

Namu.5712:

Lequin.1806:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Lequin.1806:

Namu.5712:

gadenp.7586:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Namu.5712:

Lequin.1806:

Untouch.2541:

I can’t see where they said they’ll have better stats.

They said they’ll add more update related items, that’s it.

Do the halloween exotics have better stats? Nope.

@above
At launch we will only have ring and back items, they’re going to add the rest of the slots as they go.

are you serious? did you not even read what Ascended items are? go read the release adn then come back. turn the lights on, and maybe have your browser turned to font 40. it’s in plain as day english, ascended stats are better than Exotic. no if, ands, or buts. They’ve even stated that it’s a new tier, and will make existing content easier for you! (meaning it’ll be a big increase on your character’s performance). Not to mention, it has alot of +magic find, which is the highest rated stat.

It’s the start of the never ending god kitten treadmill. they want to be like WoW for whatever reason despite having success with their original design.

And legendary stats are better then ascended which is also better then exotics? What is your point? Your already grinding for legendary… they are just adding a inbetween gear…. it won’t be the best in the game. Therefore the whole argument about a gear treadmill is totally debunked.

This nothing but this i dont see why people cant understand this

Currently there is no “progression” from exotic to legendary. They have the same stats. The only “reward” is aesthetic.

Now with Ascended gear, you have to grind for them, as their “rewards” are not only aesthetic but also have stat increase.

They are creating a stat gap between exotic and legendary with ascend being in the middle…… at least thats how it reads in the announcement made by Chris.

They are not. They’re adding a gap in between exotic and the new tier, Ascended. There is no gap to legendary (which will be EQUAL to Ascended with the patch), there never was. It was a problem they invented.

to clear stuff up folks (cuz the devs PR is purposely muddy), legendary = same stats as exotic. After patch, legendary = same stats as Ascended.

so dose this mean if we get our legendery we NEVER have to worry about a “gear grind” again as it will always be the equivalent to the strongst wepon?

For the patch this week, yes. Legendary will be equivalent to Ascended. For the future, who knows. (judging from other MMOs “item progression”, dont count on it.)

There was never any stat gap between legendary and exotics anyway, so the entire Ascended thing with better stats is why people are pissed. We all bought the game to get away from stuff like that since that is what they marketed GW2 as.

Exotics were basically a freebie when you hit 80. I am sorry thats the truth.

60 gold is a freebie? Because thats how much it costed to fully exotic out/set up a character of mine and transmute it to look decent.

Untouch.2541:

I can’t see where they said they’ll have better stats.

They said they’ll add more update related items, that’s it.

Do the halloween exotics have better stats? Nope.

They showed an item that had better stats (its about an 8% increase for a ring, which typically has less of a gap compared to other slots) and the articles talked about the new tier has better stats then exotic.

Can someone explain or point out where this gap he is talking about is? I ask because I am certainly not seeing it, and am wondering what I am missing.

You have items that cost a gold to three gold (rusttooth and pearl weapons).

10-30g (halloween skins if you count them, emberstone, hyper beam alpha etc, some of the mystic forge recipe based focuses)

50-180 gold (stuff like firebringer, mists weapons, and immobulus)

200g-460 g (foefire weapons, non mjolnir ele weapons)

500-780 gold depending on lodestone prices (infinite light and mjolnir)

By the way, legendaries cost between 500-900 gold.

You know what else really irks and confuses me? Them saying there are no intermediates between legendary and exotic weapons and using that as the excuse to pull this on us. There are exotics that cost more then legendaries at the moment (infinite light and mjolnir), cost almost as much (foefire, other ele skins), and are a inbetween the easily obtainable exotics and legendaries (mist weapons, and various other skins such as the kryta’s salvation axe).

And if you want to look at armor there are the twilight arbor and arah em gear, t3 cultural, and the normal em exotics, all of which are at a natural progression of cost/difficulty to obtain. I just dont see where this “gap” exists at.

Deth.4109:

Angrec.6970:

Amulrei.4973:

Deth.4109:

ill say this, dogma and personal philosihpy doesnt need to impeede progress, if the model they started out with wasnt getting them far as they had hoped then its only human of us to want to change our beilifes to “try” to ensure greater sucess.

If you honestly think this is going to ensure success, I don’t know what to tell you. The feedback so far has been nothing short of overwhelmingly negative. If AN do not refuse to see sense on this issue, they risk losing more players then they could ever hope of retaining.

Long story short, customers really HATE being lied to.

I came to this game expecting to escape from the gear treadmill that wow offers. Expecting to keep my exotics and not have to upgrade them until an expansion came out, I lovingly poured hour upon hour into gearing up and transmuting two of my 80s. My main has every single piece of visible gear besides 1 weapon and the shoulderpads transmuted, and a lot of my alts gear is as well.

I will not do this again, one of the big issues I had with wow was if I took any kind of break from the grind I found myself outdated and struggling to catch back up. That is one of the reasons I will leave if this hits live. Three of my friends irl who play this game are either quitting or have left because of this. I truly hope arenanet doesnt go through with this so I can try to convince them to play again.

Not even mentioning how bad resistance/artificial gating mechanisms were in other mmos I played. Having to deal with resistance gear in vanilla wow was one of the worst experiences I have ever had in the years I have played mmos. Another reason I am on the verge of being one of the ones driven away by this, I have experienced what this entails before and do not wish to feel it again.

i liked resistance gear in wow, i feel like a games less of an RPG with out it. some of my favorite games have a resistance mechanic<like skyrim which is clearly not an mmo but still i prefer it.

Did you ever do Princess Huhu, whatever that slime boss in aq40 was called, rags when you acctually had to use resistance gear, or saphiron in vanilla wow? Those mechanics were terrible and utterly painful.

I spent hour upon hour upon hour grinding marudon to grab enough resistances (only place for nr leather) just so I wouldnt be one shot by Huhu. Nothing skill based to do to mitigate it but to farm horrible gear that had nr on it. Its a bad mechanic because its a really cop out way to slow players and make them have to grab gear just to beat a boss that they cant outskill.

In games like skyrim there are no gear checks where you have to have x% of resistance type or you will instantly die. Thats the issue, and whats going to most likely be here. Fits along with them doing a slow trickle of ascended gear, making it so you cant progress to far in the dungeon till they want you to.

Amulrei.4973:

Deth.4109:

ill say this, dogma and personal philosihpy doesnt need to impeede progress, if the model they started out with wasnt getting them far as they had hoped then its only human of us to want to change our beilifes to “try” to ensure greater sucess.

If you honestly think this is going to ensure success, I don’t know what to tell you. The feedback so far has been nothing short of overwhelmingly negative. If AN do not refuse to see sense on this issue, they risk losing more players then they could ever hope of retaining.

Long story short, customers really HATE being lied to.

I came to this game expecting to escape from the gear treadmill that wow offers. Expecting to keep my exotics and not have to upgrade them until an expansion came out, I lovingly poured hour upon hour into gearing up and transmuting two of my 80s. My main has every single piece of visible gear besides 1 weapon and the shoulderpads transmuted, and a lot of my alts gear is as well.

I will not do this again, one of the big issues I had with wow was if I took any kind of break from the grind I found myself outdated and struggling to catch back up. That is one of the reasons I will leave if this hits live. Three of my friends irl who play this game are either quitting or have left because of this. I truly hope arenanet doesnt go through with this so I can try to convince them to play again.

Not even mentioning how bad resistance/artificial gating mechanisms were in other mmos I played. Having to deal with resistance gear in vanilla wow was one of the worst experiences I have ever had in the years I have played mmos. Another reason I am on the verge of being one of the ones driven away by this, I have experienced what this entails before and do not wish to feel it again.

Omega.1473:

Sawyer.9713:

OK so I understand why people are getting so upset about this, but dam how does anyone know that this is not the only time they will do something like this?

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.” – Murdock’s closing paragraph in the blog.

This is just the start…

Why do I hear in my head “IT BEGINS” in a risen voice when I read that. Such an ominous statement.

Not to mention this infusion mechanic has been done in other mmos before (radiance in lotro and resistance in vanilla wow being prime examples). It was so utterly horrible it killed lotro and was so universally hated blizzard abandoned the mechanic in tbc.

Haette.2701:

piitb.7635:

And agony is built into the dungeon itself, meaning to get good at the dungeon, you need to run that dungeon. Unlike other games where you’re grinding gear for the next tier of content.

You know what’s a better way to build progression into a dungeon?

Difficulty.

Actual complex and difficult bosses and trash.

You run it again and again and get a little further each time, but not because of some arbitrary monster dot that you combat with random gear drops, that’s not skill at all. No, you get further because YOU are getting better. That’s some satisfying kitten right there.

Agony is fake difficulty. Beating it doesn’t mean you got better, it means your numbers are bigger.

And thats why some like it. You wont have to outskill a fight, just outgear it. Such a horrible system that just flies in the face of the manifesto. If they didnt have the dungeon done why didnt they just put a bit of story on it, a giant locked door, and have it open up as time went on. Such a better system then this lasting barrier of entry travesty!

lightbringer rep wasnt a new tier of gear that upped your stats in non nightfall areas and in pvp (wvw for this game). It also wasnt something that was a resistance check that you had to have before going in, and only really made gems easier to farm.

No Im done with this game if it hits live. It was terrible in lotro, it was terrible in wow, and adding a new tier of items in this early is ominous for the games future and flies directly in the face of the manifesto.

Zaxziakhol, its the same system that was in lotro and wow. Its an artificial gating measure to limit players beating a dungeon/raid, this is further evidenced by the “we are adding full sets in the future” as a further gating measure so that its impossible to get past a certain point in the dungeon until they patch those items in.
What really ends up happening is it ends up being a bar/attunement that creates a huge barrier of entry for newer people. Not to mention how much of a pain it is to gear up alts in it.

It almost single handedly killed lotro.
It was such a terrible system in wow they stopped doing it after vanilla and was one of the universal reasons people didnt go to aq40.

Not to mention its a non skill based check, which is something completely against the games philosophy.

Its terrible in every way and its mind boggling to the extreme that its put on a higher tier of gear. Ill stick around till the event is done but I really am not going through that hell again.

Its more than 8%?!? Didnt think magic find was so high on the item budget…

My night just gets better and better with this news…

Omega Mayhem.7163:

You will be able to craft the new items or buy them off the TP by those who can.

Doesnt excuse the 7.936% increase in stats from exotics nor the artificial gating mechanism of the infusions. Plus having to regrind this when I have already grinded out exotics, Im not going to play ball if this hits live.

What worries me even more is how they plan to add full sets of this in. Just smacks of what ruined pve for other games, not to mention breaking of the manifesto by adding a gear treadmill. I honestly dont think I will keep playing if this goes live. To many games have been ruined by needless reistance gating and the whole blowing of their own manifesto bit.

Lets lay this on the table first off, infusion in this game is nothing like infusion in gw1. It is an entirely new tier of gear and is not a flat “doesnt affect me now” boost like in gw1.

I have seen this in lotro (radiance) and in wow (nature resistance/fire resistance) before. And I have to say, it is one of the things I hated most the entirety of the time I played any mmo. They were meaningless grinds set up only to force players to grind their progress to a halt. They took time and effort that should have been spent actually doing the things you loved in a game. I had to spend hours farming marudon for for nature resistance armor. After we cleared princes huhu, I made the vow that I would never do that horrible method in any game ever again. Now look what arenanet is trying to introduce? An terrible 8+ year old mechanic that should have no place in a modern game (didnt have a place in games back then either).

Not to mention a new tier of gear THIS EARLY in the games life. No I think that plus the infusion grind is a mistake and will have to stop playing if its not removed.

Xhieron.2168:

I had planned to just stand back after making my peace here, but I want to take a moment to clarify something about my position and what I think fairly represents the position of some of the other bereaved players here.

There are a few issues at stake in this change that are problematic from a balance perspective.

First: What difference will 10-15 points in a given stat make (from a full set of ascended gear which will come as they finish this abomination’s release timeline)? Probably none in the overwhelming vast majority of cases. When it will matter is when you’re in WvW and 50 hit points is the difference between winning or losing an engagement. Then it makes all the difference in the world, because in exactly that scenario—rare though it may be—having the better gear is the determining factor rather than skill. That’s unacceptable at any level of frequency. There are also plenty of social stigma issues, as others have mentioned.

Secondly: This is progression, like people have been asking for; isn’t that a good thing? No; no it’s not. I will actually concede that the game is in need of some new features; in fact I was posting to that effect on reddit earlier today. A gear grind is not that, though. The issue isn’t really even that new gear is coming out. It’s the breach of trust.

The problem here is that ANet could insist wholeheartedly after this change that Ascended is the top level of gear, there will be multiple ways to get it, etc., and whatever else they feel they need to say for damage control, but this comes after they’ve abandoned the principles they outlined when development began, and more importantly, after they’ve been paid for the game and the paradigm they presented in both time and money.

Finally: You can’t really quit this game. There’s no sub. I can stop playing today and play again in six months if I want. Those of us who are furious about this announcement aren’t all canceling because there’s nothing to cancel; that’s not what this is really about. But money talks, and I’m not going to financially support an enterprise that’s going to be developed in a way I frankly don’t agree with. I regret only that I can’t recoup my original investment in this game, because I frankly feel defrauded, and I use that in the strictest sense.

You can quite, you dont play it anymore, dont invite your friends for the invite a friend initiative and you uninstall the game.
1. it will show on their reports with less people actually playing
2. its going to kill their invite a friend initiative
3. there will be no temptation to go back to it if its uninstalled, why should you go back to anet after they go back on everything they originally said?