Guild Wars 2

I was in this forum day two complaining about the hell that was…

I have since decided to own my noobness. I’m working hard, learning from every awful loss, and taking in to consideration that I have a lot to learn and this is my first season.

I owned my bronzeness, and climbed to Silver with about a 65% win ratio.
Clearly I’m not bragging, I just mean to say that it might be more about owning where you are if you are low and play hard.

LOL Maybe. But I was hoping if other people could put specific instances they noticed up here maybe we could get some kind of response.

I used MEZ Chronomancer just because I’ve heard people complaining about Continuum shift. I don’t think it’s continuum shift so much as shift combined with everything else that specialization gives you.

The Specializations, as far as I can tell, make HoT pay to win as far as PvP is concerned. Which honestly is ok by me but I know a lot of people don’t like it. But there are very few classes where you can be viable in league if you are not rocking out the shiniest elite specialization (Again, Disclaimer: Assuming you aren’t a Pro or Legend or Plat or whatever.).

A lot of people have been posting about how this class or that class is OP or underpowered, but looking at all the Meta builds and watching some of the matches I’m curious if Anet has any thoughts on balancing out the specializations WITHIN the classes.

For a specific example, I think I would like to see Non-Elite specializations maybe get some love so every single Mesmer doesn’t need to run Chronomancer to be effective in PvP. I think, in an effort to up the ante in the expansion they made the Chronomancer really amazing. . .but does that specialization really need to have “Chronophantasma” as well.

Some of those abilities being redistributed to other specializations could help with overall balance and give people the ability to be more creative with their builds. Right now, unless you are Legendary/Platinum type player there really seems to be no reason not to be in Elite, which basically gives everyone a bunch of overpowered abilities as it is.

Just a suggestion, please don’t eat me.

I looked through and didn’t see where you said it, but I’m curious how many points you lost and how many points the other people gained after the match to MMR. I think that while being mis-matched is annoying, it is less so if the losses aren’t huge.

After looking at the algorithm a few months back it looks like the matchmaker tries to put you sometimes equally matched, and sometimes outmatched. . .but there is an expectation of win and loss that goes with that.

That’s probably confusing, but like I mentioned I’d be curious how much you lost for losing that fight. I’ve been up against hard duo Q fights before and lost very little, and been up against hard Duo Q fights before that we won and got a yuge payoff.

Well I guess it’s good of you to admit to the AFKing here so when those people do report you for making it nearly impossible to climb out of bronze when they end up in your group, ANET has your own words here to consider when they go to fill out punishment.

I started in MMR 600 and have worked my way nearly out of bronze after having some people on this very forum tell me to buck up and soldier on. The difference is, not once during my losing streaks did I ever sink my team by AFK pouting. Skill level aside, by your own description, you are the worst kind of player.

I think Anet is doing pretty well. I’m not sure how many other games you have played lately, but the balance in PvP here seems to be as follows. . .

“Elementalist, Engineer, DH, Warrior, Bunker Druid, Thief, Necro, and Power Shiro Rev are OP and Chronomancer is the most powerful class in the game because of their time split mechanic.”

. . .If everything is OP and everything is unbalanced than everything is balanced. Play another game where a class has NO counter at all, or there is no discernable way to beat them. . .or a lot of players are using a particular exploit.

Different classes play to other peoples strengths. . .

Calling for Nerfs nonstop just continues to screw up the “Balance”.

I for one am unhappy with PvP because no matter how a games goes you get that one player on one of the teams that really shouldn’t be allowed on the internet until they get some serious counseling. . .and Anet cant do anything about that.

6. Bad Sportsmen

I can learn through the rest, and if I think it’s OP I can just play it or learn to counter it by getting better at the game. PvP is ruined by bad people in the community in my opinion.

I’m a Noob that mains a not Noob build and beat the Noob builds just as much as they beat me. Low skill threshold builds are good for player population.

Rashy.4165:

Random comment from my own experiences: I try to wish everyone a good game in map chat prior to match starting, and one person said to me “don’t wish them luck, we aim to win”, to which I responded with “-shrug- sportsmanship” and got a blank “?” in response.

We lost that match, but still.

I’ve seen the same sort of thing come up. A lot of the people seem to take their PvP seriously but not grasp how to be competitive without being a jerk to the people around them. There are people like that in real sports as well, but it kinda is what it is. Even easier when people can be all anonymous and such.

And clearly you all lost the match because you wished them luck lol

Vicariuz.1605:

Bardly.2571:

2.) Frustration is normal, taking time out of the match to type and whine instead of playing makes them a bad player.

3.) New players aren’t a problem, they are -new-. If the system allows them in to ranked they are a part of the system. There is a period you have to play in unranked before you play ranked, but you can only learn so much from unranked. A lot of the strategy employed in season play isn’t what you see in unranked, especially since unranked doesn’t have a restriction on how many can Q.

4.) I don’t have a problem with the classes, it’s the seasoned vets complaining about every class that do, not sure I was clear what I was getting at there.

2) That doesn’t make them a bad player. They have no other means of communicating with their team. Sometimes, some one telling u what to do, isnt attacking u, they are just telling u what to do. If you aren’t going to listen to them, then u better be assuming the lead role, because ur actively stopping them and the rest of the team from playing TOGETHER. I see this a lot actually, one person makes a valid statement, another person tells them to stop typing, now there’s a conflict. Instead, try just doing what they said, if it doesn’t turn out the way u hoped, oh well, at least u made the attempt to play like a team; and u can go back to playing solo within the team.

3) The barrier of entry to ranked is so low, that a player COULD NOT learn everything they needed to by the time they went from fresh account to able to queue for ranked. It’s an issue that has had to be addressed before, and im sure, will be addressed again. “A lot of the strategy employed in season play isn’t what you see in unranked,” what stratagem would those be? The limit on number queuing together has nothing to do with that.

4) Many people have issues with Paper Rock Scissor balance approaches, one that was said to NOT be the case when gw2 was released. I’m one of those players, after 16k games I’m a little tired of knowing exactly what build the enemy will be running, and respeccing to accomodate, or straight up switching to a hardcounter. That’s a very static approach to a very dynamic game.

2.) We have no other means of communicating either, but assuming you know why something is failing in the first minute or so of a match without having any idea what is going on and blaming everyone else isn’t productive. Yes, sometimes it’s productive, and that is always appreciated. I’m talking about the “WTF Stupid Kittens how u no take mid yet”. Playing like a team doesn’t mean doing just whatever the first person to get annoyed enough to type says. Teams can move around without voice and see what the others are doing by watching their map, this happens a lot. Saying something like “gg noobz” at 120-210 is pointless and not helpful and, while my opinion may be wrong, yes. . .makes them a bad teammate.

3.) The barrier for entry being low is not the new peoples fault. If you guys have brought it up and they haven’t changed it their might be a reason for it. And yes, in unranked the strategy is mostly Zergs and simple rotations. In my first few games in ranked I was already exposed to several different types of rotations people seem to be using, as well as expanded use of the NPCs and equipment in the areas. There is a reason there are different levels of ranked. I would agree that new people don’t belong in platinum or gold, or maybe even silver. . .but Bronze is a fine place for people competing their first time.

4.) If you decide to take a static approach to the game by playing what you find on metabattle and countering with what you know the counter is that is your thing. You don’t have to play the same thing everyone else is playing the same way they are playing it. If you can’t manage to make something that isn’t optimized work in a way that will surprise your foes and be affective I’m not sure what to tell you. . .make your own meta?

Kir Sakar.3647:

Agreed, I will contribute more thoughts from the bottom. Disclaimer: I am not only a noob in GW2 and PvP, but a noob in gaming in general. And I am well into my adulthood. It is implicit that I am a terribad player, technically, stragically, awareness-wise… and as if that was not enough, I happen to main one of the classes that seems harder to learn in PvP (Mesmer).

Now before you scream “get out of ranked”: I have been playing unranked for 4 months now and there is only so much I can learn from these matches if I want to improve. And because I throughly enjoy the game mode, I want to improve. So this is my first ranked season.

Placement matches put me somewhere in bronze, where I am happily going up and down tiers ever since, having interesting matches that I feel are appropriate for my “skill”-level and that are largely close in points. As opposed to unranked, there are very rarely afk players and I have rarely experienced any type of rage from other players. I often had helpful teammates laying out a strategy or guiding the rest of us if we (I) were disorganized. I am pretty sure that these players climb their way out of bronze because they made an impact on teamplay and made the difference it needed to win. So as far as I can see from the bottom, this system is working. Good communication is key, toxicity on the other hand acheives the exact opposite.

Maybe I am just very lucky or bronze is not a “hell” after all. Are you NA or EU, OP? I am on EU and I am pleasantly suprised how “civilized” my matches are.

(P.S: on point 4) Sure Mes needs a buff, I would suggest a general DH trap immunity for starters :P)

In NA, also welcome to the game. Most of the people aren’t toxic, but the vocal minority are -particularly- vocal.

I’ve been doing team sports and squad based military drills my whole life so I find the teamwork in PvP fun and engaging…just hate getting flamed when I didn’t read the -veterans- mind when he decided to go to far instead of home.

Kuya.6495:

It would be nice if anet allowed you to rate teammates. Not so much so you wouldn’t get the people you didn’t like, since that can be abused, but to promote good sportsmanship. Obviously there would need to be some sort of practical consequence to being a highly rated or poorly rated player in order to mean something.

I agree. Several systems at least have an MVP type thing you can assign, that would really be nice in a game like this.

Exploitation is bad though, and is part of the reason I don’t just block everyone I see that I don’t like playing with. Everyone is allowed a bad week right, but its hard to tell who is going to be problematic right off, especially your first season.

2.) Frustration is normal, taking time out of the match to type and whine instead of playing makes them a bad player.

3.) New players aren’t a problem, they are -new-. If the system allows them in to ranked they are a part of the system. There is a period you have to play in unranked before you play ranked, but you can only learn so much from unranked. A lot of the strategy employed in season play isn’t what you see in unranked, especially since unranked doesn’t have a restriction on how many can Q.

4.) I don’t have a problem with the classes, it’s the seasoned vets complaining about every class that do, not sure I was clear what I was getting at there.

I don’t understand the hate in this forum on duo Q. I’ve been in other games and Q with friends is the norm for any online PvP game. Heck you can even multi Q in Halo! If you want to play a game entirely by yourself why not do the 1v1 tournaments?

As a long time GW player and first time Ranked Season player I wanted to put something up here about what I have seen and think so far about this matchmaking.

1.) Helpful Forum People: Thanks to those on the forum who have been helpful. Those who haven’t trolled and tried to walk me through how this system works. I have been patient and playing my heart out, and as the season continues I am seeing myself climb (albeit slowly) up the ladder and the quality of my matches go up. The evenhanded responses helped to keep me focused on getting better and trudging through the first week of bad matchups.

2.) Bad Sportsmanship from “Good” Players: I’m not ashamed to admit I’m in Bronze 3 right now. Through my fights I have found myself paired up with a lot of Dragon Finishers, many of which have a very negative attitude at their placement and seem determined to ruin things for everyone else trying to work their way up through bronze.

This has, in my opinion, been the worst part about the matchmaking. Having someone stop at 250-300 to type out angry comments to others about how we are all ‘Bads’ and ‘Noobs’ because we didn’t take mid fast enough or let ourselves be 3 capped is demoralizing and, takes away from time we need to be working to make up the point loss. I’ve come back from plenty of times being down because we put the work in and pushed through. I know the matchmaking can’t stop this, but I think by design as we climb the ranks the new players in bronze will constantly be paired with these ‘self saboteurs’.

I would be interested in getting some sort of ‘BAD SPORTSMANSHIP’ report. . .though I don’t know if it would be abused or help at all.

3.) Blaming New People: New people aren’t the problem. . .not saying old people are, but blaming new people who had -no- input in to this matchmaking and are trying to learn their way through the ranks is only discouraging those of us who would like to make this game our PvP home. . .thus making your community smaller, Q’s longer, and experience worse. I’d say if someone is new it might be best to just answer their question instead of flaming at them for being Noob Kitten Bads.

4.) If EVERYTHING is OP, Nothing is: This week I have heard nerfs called for Elementalist, Guardian, Dragon Hunter, Necromancer, Thief, Ranger (Druid), and Engineer. . .So. . .everything but Mez and Rev. . .Pretty sure that means Mez and Rev just need a buff. Like I said, I am new to the league thing, but having been on several different games in PvP I would say the only class that seems to be badly balanced right now is Rev, and a GOOD Rev can be pretty scary.

Will probably have more thoughts later, but thought it would be nice to drop something here not blaming the devs or the game from someone at the bottom.

Toll Booth Willie.6723:

Took me a minute to figure out as well, but on here at least “kitten” is the auto-correct word in place of swears. It does make for some interesting word play though.

Ooooooooooh! Thank you.

Well….suppose I’ve kittened around in unranked long enough now. Time to take my kitten up to the big leagues and kitten some kittens off in ranked!

In all seriousness, agree with OP. If you want your PvP community to grow you need to spend less time insulting the noobs and more time trying to help us out. Be less bad players if there were more mentors…and I have met a few

ziggystardust.3721:

Bardly.2571:

What is kitten?

I get the visual…but you L33t types use it for everything.

Ex: “I was kittening with kittens on freaking kitten sky hammer , stupid kittens kitten all over and we got kittened.”

I get you veterans like your buzz words, but I’d really like to know exactly what noobs have to do wrong to make them kitten/a kitten.

what they already do? Kittens have their playground, veterans have theirs. When kitten wants to become veteran, he has to finish his playground. Now kittens are going to dogs playground and having a kitten everywhere. Is it more clear to you?

After this game became f2p…it became ruined like any other f2p game.
Now the game is not about which team is better, it’s about who has less new players who farm items. Until you level 80 your place is unranked, want to grow, play unranked and come to ranked. You must prove that you deserved to play there.

Wait….so kittens have kittens?

How do kittens turn in to dogs…wouldn’t they turn in to cats?

And if I understand correctly, after you have mittened enough to enter ranked wouldn’t you at least be a veteran kitten?

What is kitten?

I get the visual…but you L33t types use it for everything.

Ex: “I was kittening with kittens on freaking kitten sky hammer , stupid kittens kitten all over and we got kittened.”

I get you veterans like your buzz words, but I’d really like to know exactly what noobs have to do wrong to make them kitten/a kitten.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

mrauls.6519:

Something needs to be done about duo queues lol… This kittens wild man

Yeah it’s called get rid of Solo Queues and make it Duo/Trio Queue because it’s designed to be an organized game mode…..

….I hadn’t thought of that ….that sounds like a good idea, Q times might be rough though since some people can’t be bothered to be pleasant enough to make a friend

Maybe if you Q solo it puts you in to a Group that you will be in while u Q….could be a thing

Same. Lost in a 4v5 and lost no points…the zero was even a happy Green

I like sky hammer better than “25 points to the person whose dot ticks last on svanir” Forest….

online games are built on the concept of playing with friends

onevsone.2098:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Honest John.4673:

Malediktus.3740:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Why even include the old rating? Since higher MMR was detrimental (higher queue times, harder to earn pips) a lot of people did not care if MMR was low.

So that the esl players would have less of a chance to match up against people who bought the game last month. It would have been much more chaotic with that approach.

Yes. We’ve done a full reset before and it was awful. Keeping everyone’s relative position means matchmaking isn’t completely random at the start of the season.

Many players have their mmr super high because played in a team and considering this value for a solo/duo queue is not a good idea imho

BTW can you answer to my other reply?

Thx

Allowing rating that was acquired when you A.) Couldn’t Loose Rating for Losses and B.) Could team up and be dragged through matches with higher skilled buddies seems like a less than stellar way to do it?

If MMR really would sort everything out over time why wouldn’t the hard reset work.

And, I really would like to see the numbers on how many wins in a row (or wins in general) it would take for someone to move from the middle of Bronze to silver considering after about 40 matches your plus and minus ratio are to the point where you get just about +15 -15 on your win and loss.

I really would like to understand how that would work. For those who would say “Get Good” I challenge you to bring your best to matchmaking in Bronze and let me know how many games you can win in a row down there. Considering that as soon as I start a streak of wins my numbers start shrinking and DONT seem to climb even after losses. . .either I’m the worst player in the game (possible maybe?) or something isn’t right.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

So if I understand that right ( No Snark meant just trying to see if I got it ) If this is your first season you would begin at (0 + 1200) * 0.5 which would be 600. . .is that correct?

And then you would do your placement matches and it would move you in to wherever.

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

No offense taken. Because, not being as good as someone who belongs in a ‘Good’ division isn’t the same as being in a division with ‘Bad’ players. There is no space between for the people who have experience, but aren’t the best. Right now were all mashed together with new or bads which makes it hard to not just move up, but keep from moving down on a string of bad matchups.

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

Skill doesn’t matter if you can’t affect solid movement upward outside of the first ten matches where you are randomly matched up. The people saying skill matters got lucky on their first ten games.

I’ve read the notes over and over and played more matches and I’m still not seeing how this system is supposed to be indicative of ‘Individual Skill’. Could a dev maybe drop something in here to explain what their vision was for how this will work? Yes I know you put those notes up before but clearly there are questions. Tons of forum posts about it. I know some people are posting that it is fine, but surely given how many people are complaining there is at least something to clear up.

Go ahead and drop this addendum here. . .Yes, I will L2P and Git Good. . .but besides that, what was the intention of making your rating entirely WL ratio dependent without letting people do teams. Especially when you enabled the ability to ‘sink’ so now our skill rating is even MORE firmly connected to the other players.

Sorry if tone sounds off, just incredibly frustrating to be stuck in these matches having to explain what ‘Capping’ is while a Jungle Dragon shoves a flag in my corpse.

When people are posting these threads I’d like to know what Division you are in. I’m wondering if some of the people who are like “Oh No everything is fine, git good.” Aren’t just playing at a level that isn’t having the trouble.

Right now, me and my Duo have been fighting our hearts out to carry AFKers, Ascension PVEers, and all manner of new player to about a half and half victory. . .which has us pretty much sitting at the same spot forever, if not going lower since the points don’t seem to make a lot of sense. . .+10 for a win -13 for a loss. . .not an easy hole to crawl out of when you are dependent on the entry level peeps.

Cynz.9437:

Bardly.2571:

I don’t understand how this was supposed to be more indicative of your personal ability. You already have the framework for “Top Kills, Top Heal, Top Defense”. . .just use those.

Ideally, the people who are at the TOP of their games, will continually move up. . .

It doesn’t need to be that complicated.

Because top stats don’t necessary say much. For example as guard or ele you can kill necro minions 24/7 and get insane dmg numbers because of it but not actually kill anyone, as thief you do lowest dmg in game but the dmg you do actually scores kills.
The game is also not as great at tracking buffs like tranq or constant decaps.
What if enemy is trying to kill your Lord and you will lose match if you don’t defend it – you won’t get great stats for it but you probably saved the match for your team.

What if someone is training your necro and you peel for them and then run off to decap – you also won’t get great stats despite saving the fight and the match.

My friend is dying and i drop stealth for him to save him – it won’t show up on stats.

Those stats are very unforgiving for roamers from my experience so far. Most common i get ironically are rezzes for teammates (lol sr) and kills when i am running like murder machine around. My friend plays engi – he usually ends up with 4 stats every match. We do our jobs, just in different ways but stats don’t reflect it.

Yes, but if you don’t factor individual performance in somehow you end up with a system where the easiest matches will be at the top and the hardest at the bottom since you cant team up. (Hardest not even in terms of difficulty, but in terms of the hardest for someone to move up through since their team can be any level of skill.)

Win Loss ratio only shows how good a team is when you pick the team or when all the individuals know how to play. . .

And for the people who will say its about the team. . .that would be fine. . .accept you can’t q as a team.

And its not like you couldn’t figure Win/Loss in somewhere. And if you want to say it’s too complicated. . .Programming the glow affects is contemplated. . .pure numbers and lists is not.

I don’t understand how this was supposed to be more indicative of your personal ability. You already have the framework for “Top Kills, Top Heal, Top Defense”. . .just use those.

Ideally, the people who are at the TOP of their games, will continually move up. . .

It doesn’t need to be that complicated.

Now that I’m home I think I can write a better response. I agree Husky, but there really is sort of a problem.

And to the answer that “Just find a Duo”, I agree that would work. . .however, if the answer to the new “Individual Skill Based” system is to pair up. . .then the system doesn’t work right?

It sounded like in the notes where would be times when we were playing against people of higher skill and that somehow if we managed to beat someone of a higher skill level with our massive troup of PvE ascended hunters we would get more points. . .are we talking like +700? Because otherwise it won’t really help much in the long run.

I know it sounds like I’m complaining, but it’s more of a curiosity. In the patch notes they made it sound like this was a test run for the new matchmaking system. . .I guess I’m wondering if this is as they intended. . .IE you will spend your entire first season in Bronze most likely, and Bronze will hold the bulk of the player base. If that’s the case then I suppose that makes sense. But if they intended to help matchmaking for the more seasoned players, they are shooting themselves in the foot by creating this bottom heavy trap.

I have a sinking feeling that if I was in Silver or Gold I would be winning and loosing about the same number of matches. . .since I could randomly end up on a good team or bad team just like in Bronze. . .so. . .what’s even the point of the matchmaking at all? Just give people individual rewards and let everyone matchmake together since there are no teams?

Just wanna drop in here too thanks to all for not just trashing me on this.

Huskyboy.1053:

Bardly.2571:

That’s why I wanted to put it here…I know people who kicked out and placed higher right off aren’t seeing it but those of us in the bottom would maybe like to hear something that gives us hope. Cuz it really does seem like this will just get worse as the system filters more people down.

Bardly lol I already explained why it’s the exact opposite. If you’re too good for Bronze, as more bad people filter in and good people filter out, it will get easier for you to faceroll and get out faster. The system doesn’t hate you, there will always be bad people on the other team too.

Husky, I agree with you to a certain extent I’m just not sure if your understanding what we’re talking about. The numbers aren’t really adding up. At this rate if I win 7 games and lose 3 I’m looking at a net increase in rank of about 200 points. I could keep up a streak like that for a long time and still remain in bronze.

The problem is, because so many of the people you get paired with are completely new it’s really unlikely you can manage to maintain that sort of streak at all.

You guys say things will get better, but basically right now every match I’m having to explain how PvP even works to the people in my group. I can’t even be focusing on improving my skill or winning. And as people funnel down into the division from the natural losses in Silver we’ll be seeing a lot of those people who just lucked out adding to the group.

In other words, Bronze has an endless supply of low skill players and little opportunity for advancement because of it.

As for beating people with higher MMR , it’s already hard to win against a team of similar MMR down in Bronze because it’s all about how the new people do since it is kinda grouping everyone in bronze similarly. Maybe it would be easy for people who should be plat or gold to move out of, but for people who have the skill level for silver it’s basically almost a trap lol.

Like I said, willing to just play it out and see but as a numbers and comp models operations research guy this has all the trappings of trouble. Props to Anet for everything they have done with this so far and it really seems like maybe just

That’s why I wanted to put it here…I know people who kicked out and placed higher right off aren’t seeing it but those of us in the bottom would maybe like to hear something that gives us hope. Cuz it really does seem like this will just get worse as the system filters more people down.

Huskyboy.1053:

Bardly.2571:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Bardly.2571:

I’m not sure what it used to be like, but the harsh numbers I’m seeing when you loose in bronze make it seem kind of daunting. If in the previous system you didn’t lose progress up the chain for losses im not sure you are really seeing my point.

Sure in silver or gold you get scrubs and trolls. But as the system is designed eventually all of those people will be crowding bronze…so the entry level is going to be this giant pool of people who are terribad and who are new….those aren’t the same thing.

It seems like from what you all are saying the sorting hat was at least somewhat swayed by your past rating which, to my understanding, didn’t punish you for being on a sick team by potentially dropping you lower in the ranking?

Basically, getting out of Bronze is now, by design, a fight against the worst and the newest and since they can’t pick teams it feels like it’ll just get more daunting as more of the worst filter in from both sides. Bronze will be the Only one with this problem because the people moving from Bronze to silver will have had to basically been capable of carrying teams of noobs and trolls so consistently that I would guess they will probably be better than the people who are getting a boost from their previous experience?

Entry level shouldn’t always be done the way high level is done is my point I suppose

There is no problem with Entry level, no one starts in Bronze unless they tank their placement matches, if you are decent enough and/or have a decent teammate you won’t be stuck in Bronze, you seem to be under the assumption that everyone not in high tiers will be in bronze, this is not the case since people will always be moving up and down dynamically.

You can’t assign different rules between lower and upper tiers in the same rank structure, that does absolutely nothing for the health of the leagues.and if you or other people are in Bronze that will most likely mean you need to learn more about the strategies/mechanics and gives you the environment to pratice/learn in and theoretically you will all be near the same skill level. Once you improve your rating will increase and you will move forward this is how all competitive modes should be, yes it sucks that it is restricted to solo/duo since this is a 5v5 team gamemode design.

That’s not quite true though is it because if you listen to some of the other people in bronze that won 7/10 of their games and some of the people in silver or gold who had a worse ratio they clearly grandfathered a lot of you all in. And since they did, all the experienced players are up in silver and beyond.

Again the issue is not that I don’t plan to “get good” the problem I’m trying to be forward is that having the entry level be the same place you send you trolls and rejects is an inherently bad idea when the only way out is via a win loss ratio.

I’m willing to just give it a chance and see how the numbers play out but when I’m winning three games with +25 each time then losing 4 games at -23 each in a division where winning or loosing is almost entirely a dice roll there really is very little hope.

I think the system is an improvement from all I’ve read and heard, I just see this as a single big glowing weak spot.

When you say +25 and -23, do you mean the final scores are 475-500 or 500-477?

No I mean the points it gives you to move within the ranks. Like when I win I get between 30-25 points and when I lose I lose about 23-27 points….

So…I’m not sure how we can get upward mobility in bronze short of being on a hard winning streak with zero bad luck for a few weeks….which seems wrong since clearly everyone in silver and gold aren’t just winning every match.

I’d say you should be able to reliably move up if you are well above 50% win ratio right? But holding that in the dice roll of bronze is going bro be tougher and tougher as the bass funnel from both sides.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Bardly.2571:

I’m not sure what it used to be like, but the harsh numbers I’m seeing when you loose in bronze make it seem kind of daunting. If in the previous system you didn’t lose progress up the chain for losses im not sure you are really seeing my point.

Sure in silver or gold you get scrubs and trolls. But as the system is designed eventually all of those people will be crowding bronze…so the entry level is going to be this giant pool of people who are terribad and who are new….those aren’t the same thing.

It seems like from what you all are saying the sorting hat was at least somewhat swayed by your past rating which, to my understanding, didn’t punish you for being on a sick team by potentially dropping you lower in the ranking?

Basically, getting out of Bronze is now, by design, a fight against the worst and the newest and since they can’t pick teams it feels like it’ll just get more daunting as more of the worst filter in from both sides. Bronze will be the Only one with this problem because the people moving from Bronze to silver will have had to basically been capable of carrying teams of noobs and trolls so consistently that I would guess they will probably be better than the people who are getting a boost from their previous experience?

Entry level shouldn’t always be done the way high level is done is my point I suppose

There is no problem with Entry level, no one starts in Bronze unless they tank their placement matches, if you are decent enough and/or have a decent teammate you won’t be stuck in Bronze, you seem to be under the assumption that everyone not in high tiers will be in bronze, this is not the case since people will always be moving up and down dynamically.

You can’t assign different rules between lower and upper tiers in the same rank structure, that does absolutely nothing for the health of the leagues.and if you or other people are in Bronze that will most likely mean you need to learn more about the strategies/mechanics and gives you the environment to pratice/learn in and theoretically you will all be near the same skill level. Once you improve your rating will increase and you will move forward this is how all competitive modes should be, yes it sucks that it is restricted to solo/duo since this is a 5v5 team gamemode design.

That’s not quite true though is it because if you listen to some of the other people in bronze that won 7/10 of their games and some of the people in silver or gold who had a worse ratio they clearly grandfathered a lot of you all in. And since they did, all the experienced players are up in silver and beyond.

Again the issue is not that I don’t plan to “get good” the problem I’m trying to be forward is that having the entry level be the same place you send you trolls and rejects is an inherently bad idea when the only way out is via a win loss ratio.

I’m willing to just give it a chance and see how the numbers play out but when I’m winning three games with +25 each time then losing 4 games at -23 each in a division where winning or loosing is almost entirely a dice roll there really is very little hope.

I think the system is an improvement from all I’ve read and heard, I just see this as a single big glowing weak spot.

I’m not sure what it used to be like, but the harsh numbers I’m seeing when you loose in bronze make it seem kind of daunting. If in the previous system you didn’t lose progress up the chain for losses im not sure you are really seeing my point.

Sure in silver or gold you get scrubs and trolls. But as the system is designed eventually all of those people will be crowding bronze…so the entry level is going to be this giant pool of people who are terribad and who are new….those aren’t the same thing.

It seems like from what you all are saying the sorting hat was at least somewhat swayed by your past rating which, to my understanding, didn’t punish you for being on a sick team by potentially dropping you lower in the ranking?

Basically, getting out of Bronze is now, by design, a fight against the worst and the newest and since they can’t pick teams it feels like it’ll just get more daunting as more of the worst filter in from both sides. Bronze will be the Only one with this problem because the people moving from Bronze to silver will have had to basically been capable of carrying teams of noobs and trolls so consistently that I would guess they will probably be better than the people who are getting a boost from their previous experience?

Entry level shouldn’t always be done the way high level is done is my point I suppose

Thanks for the feedback guys. I assumed there was something in the background I couldn’t see. I lost a little less than half my placement games and still ended up bronze, so I figured there was something else figuring in IE this being my first season.

I think it is less a L2P and more a Learn 2 Season Play. I’m not saying I’m amazing or anything but prior to this it has always felt like there was at least something I could do since the end of game scoreboard would show you numerically how you fared against opponents. I think I’m just a little resentful of playing blind like this.

Really though I am appreciating any feedback I can get. But I think my point still kinda stands overall that, as a rule, if you are being guided to solo q, and everyone in your division is noobs or bads, it really makes it far more volatile.

Yeah, my GF and I have been doing really well in unranked so it’s kind of disheartening to basically be seeing worse players than we are used to. Could be we just need to get used to this new group and figure out how to compensate. We really want to do well, love PVP in this game.

Thanks for the responses. I’m going to keep working at it, just disheartening to work so hard to move up only to watch it melt away from a string of people rage quitting or who didn’t even do their build.

So, how is this system supposed to be reflective of our actual skill then? I’m not really seeing it. When I logged on tonight to do placement matches the PvP lobby was packed and out of the 10 matches we had two people DC, one person curse and leave, and then two or three where people were just deathmatching in mid.

So I get placed in Bronze. There are some good people in Bronze who had the same problem, but we basically just keep trading wins and losses back and forth as we get paired up with people coming in with “Hi I’m new! How do we buy ascended gear? Do we get tickets if we win?”

Which is fine. . .but it doesn’t really seem to be working as intended given the way they said it would be ‘Skill’ based.

I’m deff not saying I’m right here. . .it just seems off to me.

Why not give additional (or less of a penalty) when someone gets all those top score things. . .wouldn’t -that- be more based on individual skill?

SHORT VERSION

You have problems if the place where all the NEW PEOPLE go, is the same place all the BAD PEOPLE go, and the only way for the NEW PEOPLE to get out, is to get really lucky, or learn to carry an entire team.

Hiya!

Been loving PvP and was really looking forward to these new changes. I think there is a little issue in the Bronze division that I’m not sure Anet, or even the seasoned PvPers are really talking about.

I read a post where people were complaining about MMR and most people were responding that based on your skill level you will be able to move. They suggested working on communication, and working as a team so that you can win matches.

The big problem is, that as the entry area, so many of the players either are awful, have no idea what they are doing, or are trolls. There is no way to differentiate who is on the bottom because they quit matches, or are running around naked, from the people who are playing objectively and working to improve their skills.

Because of this, and not being able to roll in to PvP on teams, it really does seem that it will get harder and harder to get out of bronze as time goes on and the caliber of teammates you have continues to go lower.

In other words, the bulk of getting out of Bronze is largely luck of the draw.

Yes, its the same matchmaking up high, but the people who are playing even in silver know enough about the game to listen to each other, be polite, not quit, and so on. So, the higher up you go, the better team you are likely to get. In an essence it will become a better test of your skill the higher you go since the skill levels of everyone in a match will be closer together.

But down in Bronze, you are sitting there with people who decide to go get a snack instead of play, and you play 4 men down.

Yes, theoretically at some point the axe should swing back the other way. . .but then it isn’t about skill at all is it?

I’m not sure what the numbers are behind the scenes, but it would seem to me that Bronze division might need to be smaller, or give greater reward for wins and smaller for losses or something so people who are playing consistently can move up even if they get hit with a string of 5 teams of people who are just there to grind ascended gear.

((And it’s been happening. . .it’s actually incredibly frustrating.))

Thanks ANET for all you’ve done! I love the changes otherwise and plan to keep trying my heart out.