Swiftwynd.1685:

Trueshot Issues:

Unlike most ranged abilities in GW2, it is very easy to miss a max range Trueshot on a moving target due to the self immobilize.

In pvp, another player at 1200 range could slightly backpeddle to completely avoid the damage by watching our animations.

As such, could trueshot have 1,200 range limitation to start the cast, but allow its after cast range check reach out to 1,500 range to help it land on fleeing foes more reliably?

If this is not technically possible, increasing Trueshots range to 1,500 would help tremendously.

thx for re-posting this Swiftwynd.

I do really agree with this as this would add alot of realism as to why the guard must still stay to cast such a powerful shot.

again thx for a great suggestion Swiftwynd.
hope you dont mind me putting my own spin on it for a second:

If increasing true shots range isn’t able to be done how about making true shot explode in a 300 radius when it reaches 1200 ?

so what changes to defenders dogma would people be like to see happen?

In order of preference:

1) changed to 25% run speed trait ( i know I’ve raid this one alot but this is more a discussion centered around defenders dogma rather then RS)

2) 50% chance When struck by a melee attack cripple all foes around you for 3seconds 10 second CD. Cripple you inflict lasts 20% longer.

3) longbow attacks have a 35% chance to cripple foes for 2seconds 2second ICD, cripple you inflict lasts 20% longer (change trait name to suit)

4) change it to refresh spear of justices CD instead with a 10second cool down.

Currently DH’s main form of cripple comes from the traps test of faith and fragments of faith, long bows ability to apply cripple is rather lacking right now as longbow can’t yet apply cripple to 1 target and can only apply it conditionally to 2. DH may bring cripple to the table for guards but i feel it hasn’t been integrated into the theme of dragon hunter as much as it should of been.

I very much agree with you there swiftwynd, don’t supose you would be willing to re-post what you’ve just said in the Dragonhunter updates, post BWE3 (launch) forum ?

all runes are usable by all professions, its simply themed towards dragon hunter, Nike said he was also thinking of some variations to be themed after the other professions as well, certainly looking forward to seeing them.

Pure of sight from Dh is 7% damage with all weapons in melee range, and does 13% with ranged weapons when your +600 away from the target – so this is a all weapon mastery in one way , it just doesn’t have CD reduction.

Changing to the knock back to heavy light to only work if true shot could be a good idea, also this could be done with out nerfing true shots CD, by making heavy light’s effect have a 10sec CD.

Increasing true shots cool down is never a answer I’m afraid, true shot is probly about 60% of longbows damage maybe even more, so any increase in CD is literally killing longbow’s damage capability

arguing its super strong for a short CD isn’t proper either- dps wise Lava font ( fire 2 staff) does 3300 on 4sec cd and is instant cast , true shot is 2200 with 0.75 cast time dps wise true shot doesn’t even compare.

True shot is a burst damage skill rather then a dps skill, its designed to function as a “kill-shot”

I agree with Ragnar tho, heavy light giving stab to true shot would be preferred.

All this aside for a second tho, you should of put your idea in the main thread its rather unlikely to get noticed here by Devs as it is by players, so if you’ve got any more thoughts Zefrost throw it in the main thread as its the best way to get Karl to notice your ideas/thoughts/comments

Ghotistyx.6942
Light aura should be an on hit effect granted from Radiant Retaliation (in addition to its current effects), while Signet use should have a different bonus.

Your so right there it isn’t funny, adding light aura as a on hit effect to radiant retaliation is a fantastic idea, tbh i doubt if any1 actually uses radiant retaliation atm cos it needs 1k condi for it to be a gain over power.

Perfect inscriptions:

the addition of light aura to this trait has failed to make this a proper GM trait , most guards only use this trait to grab the extra 36 power/condi damage increase and CD reduction for signet of resolve. Currently the only signet guards possess that’s actually worth activating is signet of resolve, which makes a on activation effect rather pointless for us.

Idea : instead of light aura on activation make this trait provide 50 precision per signet not currently on cool down (maximum of 3), not sure if such a idea is too strong but something along the lines of this would be alot better then light aura.

All i can say anything other then light aura on activation would help make this trait worthy of its current slot.

Obtena.7952

The number of current signets doesn’t exclude the addition of another. There is no reason to ‘invent’ rules to restrict what could be.

took the time to check around some professions do have 6 of a skill type. I guess that was a misconception on my part. So your right a run speed signet is still a possibility for guards.

Love the idea of it expanding the further it travels, not a fan of it becoming slower as it travels further tho. Still such a change would be far better then current deflecting shot since its rather prone to being inaccurate, during beta i had alot of times where deflecting shot would miss even if u aimed right thu the center of enemies if it was shot on a angle.

keep the great ideas coming Notics.

I do agree Bezagron.7352 signet of courage is in major need of a over-haul currently its pretty terrible for 180sec CD skill.

Changing the passive effect to heal every second is a fantastic idea.

As for the activation my suggestion is : change the cast time to 2seconds make the heal equal to 100% of the guardians maximum HP and allow this heal to revive downed targets but downed targets are only healed for half as much. This change to the heal amount should justify the cast time reduction.

4.25sec cast was never a good idea for a skill that doesn’t even work on downed targets in that time not only could a enemy player kill you while you cast it, in pve scenarios such as dungeons or Fotm the cast time is also uesless and this is where it also really hurts that it doesn’t effect downed targets either.

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

I can hear the screams of all wvw guards saying GIVE IT TO ME NOW (and probably alot of other professions too)

On the subject of better run speed runes this is idea is beyond fantastic, it would certainly be better not just for guards but everyone in wvw. I myself never take my guard into wvw ever cos even traveler runes were never a good enough option.

Still doesn’t fix the run speed issue for guards in pve but id really love this rune set to be implemented as it would a far better viable run speed rune option for all wvw’ers not just guards.

I really hope Karl takes notice of this brilliant idea.

On a side note: love the animated picture Nike =)

Noctis.3426:

@Ragnar the Rock
It would be amazing if they rework LB5 into one single hit or a reliable source of cc, but i dont think that is going to happen.

I like your LB1 idea for a minor trait. When you Burn an enemy you also make them cripple for 2s (5s ICD)

@Bezagron
Many people suggested that Zealot’s Aggression should be our new Minor Grandmaster

@Blackdeath
Here is my counter offer. Fire an arrow that can cripple your target if you hit them from behind or from the side for 1s. if your target is already cripple, It is not going to re-apply it (cripple) but instead the arrow will shatter and damage the two nearest enemies (Radius 240-300)

Sorry Notics i didn’t intend nor wish to insult/undermine or insinuate that your suggestion was inferior at all i was merely making one of my own. My sincerest apologies if it did offend you in any way or form.

once again you have made yet another fantastic suggestion for puncture shot changes. Love the sound of the shattering effect as well, but i feel the issue is puncture shots currently inability to apply cripple to 1 target and the poor bounce mechanic it currently has.

Once again tho another great suggestion you have made, looking forward to seeing more of these thoughts ill admit.

ok how bout this:

Puncturing shot: 0.75second cast

Fire a arrow that bounces between 1-2 foes apply 1second of cripple per for hit.

damage 764 (based on the default number shown on the dullfy dragon hunter thread)
Maxium bounces: 1
Combo finisher: Physical Projectile (20%)

so if it hits 1 target that target gets crippled for 1sec and if 2 are hit both get crippled for 2secs. This would finally give Dh a reliable cripple that wouldn’t t necessarily be too strong v 1 target and does the same it already does to 2 targets.

still would prefer if puncture shot bounced twice so Lb had better AOE, true shot doesn’t always hit more then one after all.

I still love Noctis.3426 idea on puncture shot aswell.

On a side note tho deflecting shot seemed rather inaccurate when fired diagonally, even if u placed your cursor precisely on the target it would miss alot unless fired in straight line, on smaller angled shots it would hit but larger angles it just misses completely.

Noctis.3426:

yep, it feel like a copy/paste of Ranger’s Barrage. My idea is more simple If Hunter’s Ward hit any tethered enemy (Spear of Justice) cage will drop instantly or immobilized for x duration. But i really like your first idea, one single burst sounds nice

PD: one easy solution for LB1 can be Cripple your target if you hit them from behind or from the side for 1s (66% of its full duration from side hit)

Love your idea for Puncture shot notcis, that would really allow us to feel like we’re truly hunting down our fleeing prey, certainly would help our ability to apply cripple which i have felt is a bit low overall.

So onto other things such as hunters ward/ lb 5

while i love the visual appeal of this attack to bits (kinda reminds me a little of judgment from our long gone tome of wrath).

I gotta agree with what people have been saying the cast is time is way to long and its the easiest thing in the world for any one to dodge and some of us feel that the CD is a bit long. I’d say at the very least changing the cast time is needed.

anyway here is some ideas on the matter.

Idea : reduce cast time 1.5 seconds( and make it fire the arrows at the end of the cast rather then start) make hunters ward a single hit instead and apply the cage effect to all foes it hits in the area (5 max) immediately after impact and 4seconds of cripple. In short make it like a more tactical form of true shot but with less damage.

so i guess it sound something like this:

Hunters ward ( or rename it to hunters judgement) 1.5second cast time (cast time up for debate) 45 second cool down.

Bombard the targeted area with a charged shot that forms a barrier around foes it hits.

1600 damage
cripple (4secs) : -50% movement speed
maximum number of barriers : 5
ring duration: 5 seconds
radius: 360

I reckon this option would be good enough to keep the CD at the same 45secs.

To me the current hunters ward while i love the animation for it i hate that its almost a near copy of rangers barrage and it doesn’t feel unique enough.

1 sad thing about the tome of wrath change was guards lost the judgement spell so i reckon having a ranged attack a little like that would be great in terms flavor (kinda like we guards finally read the tome of wrath properly and learnt “feel my wrath” and this longbow skill from the knowledge within thus no longer needing the tome anymore).

Idea 2: change cast time to 2.2seconds, make the initial 1st hit apply the barrier effect instead of the last, while this may in one way make it even easier for enemy players they would be forced into using their movement skills in order to do so, but it would allow the guard to tactically punish a target they know has already used their escapes skills.

Idea 3 : change cast time to 2.2seconds make the final impact hit 1st instead of last but apply the barrier effect on the last small hit, this option would at least make this skill feel less wasted when a guard uses it on a player but gives the opposing player the same chance to dodge the barrier effect .

As for puncture shot (LB 1) the solution is really simple: remove the bounce requirement.

Part of me would rather Puncture shot hitting 3 instead of 2 for better aoe on lb considering its slow cast but I’m probably asking a bit much there.

Obtena.7952 a passive trait is actually the only option for such addition to guards, we already have 5 signets so a run speed signet can’t be added. As the core guard traits are designed rather well there’s only 2 possible trait locations for a passive run speed trait to be added one is Zealots speed from zeal trait line and the 2nd is defenders dogma from dragon hunter trait line. Defenders dogma is pretty much a empty hole in DH traits right now. For longbow DH guards zeal is less viable as a option over virtue trait line so adding it to zeal would make it less accessible for ranged DH builds. This is why replacing defenders dogma with a passive run speed trait is the best option should Karl decide to add it.

As i said before its time to let Karl make the decision over this with all arguments for/against such a trait and for us all to focus on other parts of dragon hunter/core guard.

Bezagron.7352:

Skyline Crash.6254:

true lol but getting swiftness requires compromising utilities and weapons to get it. this would be for those who want to be full medi while not having to use a staff to be fast

Just wondering should mediation builds have easier 25% MS, swiftness or super speed without having to sacrifice something important because of their instant skills & burst teleport? What becomes their weakness?

valor/meditation guards weakness is lesser damage capability for higher survival, before the pre-hot trait changes valor and virtues were basically equal in damage.

The arguments for and against a passive run speed trait have already been well presented , its time we leave it in Karl’s hands for consideration now so we can focus on discussing other stuff for guard/dragon hunter.

well i would prefer 25% passive while using ranged weapons myself , the trait name you suggest is really catchy tho, maybe 25% passive run speed when virtue of courage isn’t on cool down, this would probly add more flavor to dragon hunter and simulate that using the more powerful version of virtue of courage causes the guard to become exhausted partially after it’s use.

(sorry i know i said id stop about the whole thing but reading your comment made that idea come into my head)
either way at the moment I’m just happy to leave it in Karl’s hands for consideration.

Nike.2631

What matters is the performance of the whole, and like it or not Guardians as a whole perform very well. Eliminating things that set a class apart, good or bad, is rarely a desirable undertaking.

Mesmers use to have the same thing setting them apart before the trait from chronomancer came along.

The lack of a passive run speed trait does effects us as a whole, not just DH but DH is the trait line with room for it.
with staff , retreat and save just being used just for swiftness you have lost about 30-40% of your build and it effects your play style as a whole. Mesmers use to be in the same boat as us before so why can’t we be in the same boat as them now?

The balance between professions stays more the same rather then being further apart by giving guards a passive run speed since Mesmer’s use to be forced into using a weapon and a utility for run speed as well.

Overall while the passive run speed trait may allow us to better complete with the other professions it wont actually increase the rate of which we may kill another profession or be killed but it will get rid of a issue that has been driving most guards crazy these past 3 years. The best way to think of it such a change actually means you kill another player because of your build + skill. Yes I’m aware of the fact you could argue it the other way round. Still I feel the positive reasons for a run speed trait outweigh the negative , i ain’t saying I’m right or any one else is wrong its just my opinion.

I believe that both the arguments for a 25% passive run speed trait and against getting a run speed trait have been incredibly well presented and we’ve given Karl alot to read about.

So I’d like to call a ceasefire/truce on the matter. We’ve said our piece and I’m sure we have both reached the point where we’d both like to focus on other aspects of dragon hunter/core guard as well in this forum. I myself intend to post bit more thoughts on hunters ward but ill leave that til tomorrow.

Nike.2631:

Classes are defined by their weaknesses and their strengths and of the two usually the weakness give more texture to the experience. The lack of passive speed buff is one of the Guardian’s defining characteristics. Right now the workaround price is all 6 of your rune slots. If we get another way expect the price tag to be equally steep.

The problem is the price we pay for the run speed is incredibly steep compared to the other 8 professions:

Revenants: their utility’s are locked into which legend they use so swiftness from herald is near no cost at all, even better they can turn that cost off any time by deactivating it. You could say using the glint legend is the cost revs pay as well but again they can just turn that off by using a different legend.

warriors: the cost of their rs is 1 trait warriors sprint.

Thief : signet of shadows

Ele’s: signet of air

necromancers: signet of the locust

engineers: speedy kits

rangers : natural stride from druid trait line, much higher cost as its in the elite spec.

Mesmers: time marches on , same as ranger higher cost as its in the elite spec.

Guards: the options we have cost a great deal more.

Option 1: staff , retreat and save yourselves (with no shout cd or staff traits)

= with retreat and save that’s already twice as much, 1 weapon slot is worth far more then 2 utility’s so now we’re at 3 or 4 times the cost.

Option 2: staff+ retreat+ traits from honor : 1 wep, 2 traits, 1 utility this is a overall higher cost then option 1.

option 3: runes of the traveler/speed : for a full zerk guard the use of treveler runes takes 20% or more of your damage away, while to tanks or healer/support guards dont lose as much stats its a still extreme loss in comparison . Rune sets are really only a option in wvw also.

Changing defenders dogma to a 25% passive run speed trait would mean that the “cost” guards pay for this kind of benefit is now = 1st with ranger and Mesmer as it will be in the elite spec trait line. so it would still be a higher cost then most but also provide guards with the same build freedom Mesmer and rangers now have as well.
Before the trait from chronemancer mesmers and guards cost were fairly close due to the low up time of signet of inspirations up time. so it isn’t really a buff but it keeps us in the same place as opposed to a worse one yet improves QoL and build freedom.

Sharing equal cost with Mesmer’s and rangers is far better for balance then guards cost for it making what it costs the other 8 look like nothing.

I do agree that current run speed rune sets are terrible, but those should be a option for any1 who doesn’t want to use a passive trait or signet/utility to do so. Guards deserve to have that kind of a choice as all other professions do.

Doesn’t really matter whether a core guard or DH guard needs a 25% passive run speed trait more/less.

The only trait line that actually has any room for this addition is the dragon hunter trait line by replacing defenders dogma with a 25% passive run speed trait.

Mesmers and rangers new passive run speed traits were put into the elite traits lines to make such a addition a balanced trade off, which is another reason for it to be put in the dragon hunter trait line should the Dev’s decide to implement it.

on different subject now tho.

Hunter’s Fortification while the damage reduction is decent “on block” mechanics are terrible and in a way they promote being hit, at the moment this is a rather horrible trait for healer/support or tank builds. Maybe change this to remove a condition every 15secs, or since traps now provide a boon when triggered allow this trait to provide the boons to allies as well when traps are triggered. While healer/support builds may not use traps it would at least make traps a option.

Arcaedus.7290:

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Really nice changes but the current virtue mechanics are really bad. Especially f3, having that interupted puts it on a full 75s CD without getting any of the virtue benefits, and the same with f2, it gets put on full CD without the heal/regen. Maybe make f3 instant cast and f2 an evade while leaping that would help with the DH sustain alot.

Can we have this addressed too before launch? This is a serious issue and is something that put quite the frowny face on me during BWE3. 2/3 of our entire class mechanic should not go down the drain just because we were unlucky enough to get randomly interrupted.

Naru’s fixes here for our f2 are great. For our f3 I might add: Let the stun break, and stability (traited) on our f3 come instantly. The stability should last 0.25 seconds longer to account for cast time. Then, we spend 0.25 seconds casting before the shield actually appears.

These changes to our f2 and f3 would still maintain the whole “virtues need to be casted” theme while making them balanced. Honestly, these virtues don’t deserve to be interruptible, or else they should go on a 3-4 second cooldown (which they don’t). So please make it so that either they have a 3-4s interruptible cooldown, or are not interruptible. Take your pick ANET

well said Arcaedus couldn’t agree with you more there.

sadly no a 20% CD reduction for longbow skills would be rather overpowered for us despite hunters ward CD being rather long. still any change to heavy light will be well welcomed by all.

20% CD reduction lb skills could be made balanced by making it exclude true shot, it would be rather detrimental for guards for true shots CD to be increased to allow for a 20% CD reduction trait.

Another option could be to make heavy light reduce the cool down on hunters ward on top of its current effect.

Dh traits are a pretty in good shape now except for defenders dogma.

I know there’s issues with bow on puncture shot , true shot and hunters ward cast being a bit too slow and a few traits that dont seem to work very well with Dh such as retribution from the radiance trait line. Those however are more under the lines of minor fixes needed to be done. 8/9 professions have something one doesn’t is a balance issue and trumps minor fixes by a long shot in priority.

Rune of the traveler was never a real option in the 1st place, i did spend 2 hours in the beta weekend testing the difference between scholar and traveler the damage loss caused by using traveler runes was over 20%, where true shot would crit a target for 15k with travelers runes it crits for 11k this is why travelers runes will never be a viable option for us.

The root to true shot is really only a pain because we were already slow before, however its flawed that we cant use dodge whilst true shot is casting. Overall a passive run speed trait will do more for us then removing the root to true shot which is why removing the root to true is probably the lowest priority fix needed at the moment.
(what i mean by this comment is hitting dodge whilst true shot is casting wont cancel the cast and dodge the attack continues to cast, having to cancel true shots cast then use dodge is a bit lame)

A fix to puncture shot however is probably the 2nd highest priority in order of fixes/changes needed as the bounce requirement is beyond stupid and ruins the usefulness of the attack a great deal.

I like everyone hates the long cast time on hunters ward but i dont see it being changed as of yet.

As for defenders dogma it would be very difficult for the devs to change this to something else apart from a passive run speed trait without giving Dh too much, possibly 25% run speed whilst wielding ranged weapons may feel too weak for the minor slot defenders dogma uses but it results in giving us something we both need and want without giving the trait line too much.

heavy light defiantly is too weak for a grand master trait and should probably have dulled sense merged into it to make it a more worthy of a gm trait as it does compete with big game hunter but doesn’t come close to it.

I do feel dragon hunters overall ability to actually apply cripple to targets is rather low but this is a difficult subject to handle in terms of balance, typically our traps are our only reliable sources of cripple, as for puncture shot it needs to hit both targets to apply its cripple but its obscene bounce requirement makes this a nightmare to achieve.

My interest isn’t solely for a run speed trait speed but i do feel that lack of one is still the largest problem for Guardians.

that’s a rather troll like attitude you got there, crying over it isn’t what I’m doing here my reasons are for asking for a 25% run speed trait are valid and so far none of the trolls pretending that they are main guardians have given a actual proper reason as to why it shouldn’t happen.

It’s also likely to be another 3 years in another expack that we will get another elite spec (if we do). I noticed how you used the word choose on the matter of rev/mesmer
both of those professions have a choice in that matter, guards however don’t yet.

In truth i doubt very much there ever will be a thing as a second elite spec, it certainly would just be better design for arena net to allow each profession to use another weapon without needing a elite spec to equip it in the next expack.

Mesmers get the trait time marches on noctis which provides 25% passive run speed and reduces the impairing conditions by 25%.

Revenant utility’s are locked in place per legend they use Facet of Elements +Facet of Nature (F2) in full passive up time of swiftness so in truth what revs have is = 33% passive run speed and with the addition of shiro legend they have super speed as well.

Still i don’t get why some people think 8/9 is fair because it simply isn’t.

As for you notics your attitude isn’t constructive and is rather hostile
so unless you have valid reasons that consist of more then saying awww your QQing which is it shouldn’t happen or deal with it. Ultimately its the Dev’s decision I’m just saying my piece here.

If you wish to bring a constructive reason as to how such a change will effect/not effect the balance between all professions feel free to do so, but keep your poor hostile attitude out of this thread.

It’s about equality while each profession will never truly be equal the fact remains with only one profession left with out a passive run speed trait it immediately makes us unequal to the others, even with all profession’s having access to passive run speed trait , not every one is necessarily going to want to use it but there’s now no reasons why we shouldn’t have that choice either. Swiftness will always be useful one way or another but most guards are sick to death of only being half of what they should be due to having to use a weapon we dont really want to use outside of zerg farming and not 1 but 2 utility’s slots are eaten up by it , this leaves a lot guards with a deep sense of uselessness. Guards just like every one should have a choice in what weapons and skills they use for each game mode, but our dependence on swiftness prevents this greatly.

I dont want to run with staff/longbow for all of hot and i shouldn’t have to either.
This change won’t actually make guards stronger it will simply eliminate a problem that has been ruining our game play for years, there is far too many reasons for this to happen and there is no true reason for it not to happen.

personally i find it rather difficult that a few people fail to see that 8/9 of having it is completely unfair and unbalanced. When it was a few professions that didn’t have access to a passive run speed trait it was ok but now with only one there’s no point for guards to not have it.

I played the DH for 16.5hours in the 3rd beta week end by about 3hours in the lack of run speed was really starting to make it a nightmare, running around silver wastes and verdant brink was hell and on top of that the root to true shot just adds insult to injury.

The reason this change is important is equality, balance and quality of life, as a said before since all other professions have it guards won’t become more powerful from it but with out this change guards are unintentionally being made weaker.

There are many guards out there that are sick and tired of using staff as a plain old stat stick of swiftness, same goes for save yourselves and retreat. Weapons and skills should be used because their apart of your build not as stat sticks that your really wish you never had to resort to using but in the end your forced into using anyway. mesmers no longer have to use focus as a stat stick for swiftness, same with rangers and warhorn.

Mesmers and rangers now have alot more freedom to what build they can create now thanks to their new passive run speed traits, there is no reason now why guards shouldn’t have the same freedom for their builds as well.

lack of a 25% run speed trait for guards is really a deal breaker at this point. Anyone who is actually interested in balance between professions can see that if 8/9 have it already there is no issue in 9/9 having it.

A hunter cannot lay any traps for their prey if their forced to use non trap utility now can they?, Nor can they defend themselves properly in melee should someone get the jump on them because their forced to use staff just so they can have the same movement speed all other professions get passively. Not to mention that they will also have to means to escape the fight either since they wont have any movement or proper utility’s equipped either.

Staff is an aoe weapon used either in zergs whilst farming to tag mobs or a support/healing weapon, it should be used for those reasons not as a useless stat stick that gives us swiftness and takes away a more useful weapon from our build. Mesmsers are no longer forced to use focus for swiftness anymore so why should we be forced to use staff for the exact same reason.

retreat is at its most useful in dungeons for skipping trash but when we don’t need it in a dungeon we don’t use it and end up falling behind our party slowing the run down. retreat is downright useless in spvp, wvw again its useless as all our allies have passive movement speed already as its vital for a game mode such as wvw.

Save yourselves has always been a decent skill for a 10sec dps burn phase or as a condi clear for your party in dungeon runs and that is what it really should be used for not just for running around.

I am actually happy for mesmers thanks to the passive run speed trait from chronomancer they are now no longer forced into using focus when they dont want to and signet of inspiration can return to being used when the build actually requires it.

Rangers get the same deal now with natural stride from druid trait line, their no longer forced into using war horn for swiftness, in a way signet of the hunts active effect was rather poor for rangers.

all other professions have this way of freedom of choice but guards do not, 8/9 already have it so there isn’t a single balance issue by giving guards a 25% passive run speed trait to the dragon hunter trait line.

Despite the current flaws with puncture shots bounce requirement, the only thing real thing holding dragon hunter back is no 25% passive run speed trait.While the root to true shot sucks we can live with that but having no run speed trait and this root is brutal, however removing the root to true shot instead of a passive run speed trait would be a poor choice in terms of balance.

As for those who say all passive run speed trait’s should be removed that’s a truly terrible idea for all while everyone having a passive run speed trait is great for everyone.

In turn removing all skills that gave swiftness would also be a bad idea, as swiftness cater to those whose builds dont use the trait lines or signets that may give passive run speed.

Guilds wars 2 is meant to be a game about build freedom all professions should be able to chose between using passive run speed or swiftness ( or a combination of both if they desire) but should not be forced. 8 of 9 professions have this option 1 does not.

Defenders dogma needs to be changed to a 25% passive run speed trait.

Another reason for a 25% trait is it also themes well with what dragon hunter is meant to be about, hunters must be fast in order to pursue their prey. A hunter is agile also again a 25% run speed trait falls into the dragon hunter theme perfectly.

I’ll mention again that removing defenders dogma and replacing it with a 25% passive run speed trait is the perfect solution to this problem

Mesmers asked for a 25% run speed passive and they got it, rangers didn’t ask for a 33% run speed passive yet they got it.

The fact is we now have 8/9 classes professions who have 25% run speed passive or better, guards are the only profession without a 25% run speed passive so it is actually a balance issue that we don’t have it rather then asking for professions to be standardized (not to mention that proper balance is about making every profession as equal as possible but still different to each other).

Guards are currently forced into using staff, retreat and save yourselves all at once just to attempt to keep up. We basically lose a whole weapon slot and 2 utility skills due to this which in wvw makes you a very easy kill and in pve it results in your build being weakened greatly, no guard ever uses retreat in Spvp and there is far better options for utility’s in Spvp then save yourselves and staff only caters to healing/support builds in Spvp or wvw. Very few guards play healing or support as well.

Other professions do not pay nearly as much of a cost to their builds for run speed this is why its unfair for guards to still not have a 25% run speed trait.

Another reason for a 25% trait is it also themes well with what dragon hunter is meant to be about, hunters must be fast in order to pursue their prey. A hunter is agile also again a 25% run speed trait falls into the dragon hunter theme perfectly.

Defenders dogma it’s self is basically a empty trait at the moment, and is the perfect candidate for a 25% run speed trait to be put in its place.

Elementalist’s : have signet of air
Necromancer’s :have : signet of the locust
Warrior’s: have warriors sprint
ranger’s: have signet of the hunt and now will have a 33% run speed trait from druid
Thief’s: have signet of the shadow’s
Engineer’s: have speedy kits
Mesmer’s : have time marches on from chronomancer
Revenant’s: have impossible odds from shiro legend and facet of elements from glint legend which results as 100% swiftness up time + super speed on the side.

All of the above come at very low cost cost for each to actually use, unlike guards which current must use staff, Save Yourselves and retreat.

Staff wastes an entire weapon slot, not to mention we are forced to stay stationary for 4seconds to receive the full amount of swiftness it provides.

Not sure how we’re meant to use traps for utility’s with dragon hunter when we’re still forced to use retreat and save yourselves for run speed. This also leaves with only one utility slot that has something we wanted to actually use for our build.

Overall guards are paying a much higher price for run speed compared to all other professions and this needs to be changed Defenders dogma is the perfect candidate to solve this problem since its basically a empty trait slot that does nothing for guards.

Change defenders dogma to “thrill of the hunt” 25% increased movement speed when using ranged weapons (staff/scepter/longbow).

maps like SW and Verdant brink are a utter nightmare to play in with no passive run speed. In wvw using retreat and save yourselves isn’t viable at all, using traveler’s runes isn’t a viable alternative either.

When 8/9 professions already have it there is no possible balance issues of giving guards the same thing, however now there is a balance issue by not. There is so many reasons to give guardian’s a passive run speed and almost no reasons not to.

while Hunter’s Verdict is a nice addition there is still some issues plaguing dragon hunter which so far haven’t been addressed .

Defenders dogma: change to “thrill of the hunt” 25% movement speed whilst wielding a ranged weapon (staff/scepter/longbow) . It’s far better to have all professions with passive run speed increases rather then only one that doesn’t.

Puncture shot: remove the requirement for this attack to bounce to another target. This attack rarely bounces to another target due to the fact the 2nd target has to be behind the 1st, due to this fact puncture shot feels very lackluster. IT would be nice if puncture shot actually bounced twice not once also.

Spear of Justice (F1) : make the active inflict 2 seconds of cripple to every target it hits (initial impact) or allow the passive effect to still work after its been activated.

Hunter’s Ward: reduce cast time to 2 seconds and increase the cripple duration to 3seconds.

True shot: the root is a pain, but overall the lack of passive run speed is affecting us alot more.

Retribution (from radiance trait line) : change to 10% damage against targets with a condition on them. dragon hunter has a lot less ability to maintain retaliation then core guards but this trait also forces us to use the virtue trait line and it breaks the fundamental use of retaliation which isn’t meant to be spammed off cool down, its meant to be used a tactical counter to a large amounts of hits.

Changing defenders dogma to a trait that gives 25% movement speed is the perfect solution to the problem.

the best solution to the 25% run speed problem for guards is to change defenders dogma in the dragon hunter trait line to give 25% run speed as the trait in its current state is beyond useless.

After testing DH for 8.5hours this beta weekend. Overall DH has got a bit better but there’s still a lot room for improvement, movement is still a issue and traps still are not useful from range in melee however they work well (for PVE), DH ability to apply cripple still seems really low overall.

Anyway here is some of my thoughts/feedback:

Defender’s Dogma : remove and change to Thrill of the Hunt which gives 25% movement speed whilst wielding ranged weapons.

my reasons for this : this change is beyond vital for dragon hunter to succeed, our movement in its current state is very poor and guardians are now the only Profession without any true form of passive movement speed increases so it would be very unbalanced for guardians to not have this now. After all a true hunter is fast on their feet or they can never keep up with their prey.

Defender’s Dogma in all my testing proved to be utterly useless it doesn’t work when justice (F1) is on cool down, it also would not trigger from (F3) active (even f justice wasn’t on cool down) , even if it did this trait was never something dragon hunter needed nor do any guardians want it. In its current state is this trait is a waste and offers nothing to the dragon hunter spec.

I am sorry if i seem harsh but defender’s dogma is literally that bad and useless.

Overall with out a 25% movement speed trait dragon hunter will never be truly passable. It was near impossible to even get out of melee range against risen npc’s yet alone other players.

Spear of Justice (F1) : make the active inflict 2 seconds of cripple to every target it hits (initial impact) or allow the passive effect to still work after its been activated.

My reason for asking this is zealots aggression while the change was nice it does nothing for those using big game hunter.

Puncture Shot: Remove the requirement of 2nd target having to be behind the 1st target for this attack to bounce, considering its slow cast id prefer if it also had 2 bounces not 1 but make it so it can’t hit the same target twice or reduce the cast time to 0.5 seconds.

my reasons for this is the bounce requirement is annoying and it greatly reduces the usefulness of this attack, while longbow does have a fair amount of AOE skills it becomes our main weapon as DH and puncture shot feels very lacking when your against larger groups.

True shot: allow us to move whilst casting this ability but at a slower pace similar to whirling wrath but please don’t increase the cool down of true shot as that would be detrimental.

deflecting shot : seems to be in a good place right now.

Symbol of Energy: the projectile speed of this skill is a bit slow still.

Hunter’s Ward: reduce cast time to 2 seconds and increase the cripple duration to 3seconds.

bug: hunters ward still has a great tendency to miss on the 1st impacts and not apply the cripple, I’ve also had times where the final impact misses all targets even when they were clearly within the impact zone.

Traps : change traps so once they have been placed down the guardian can activate the trap to spawn at their current targets location.

my reason for this is going back into melee range just to lay down a trap(s) was not only a hassle but counter productive. a change like would allow players to have the choice between using trap skills defensively and offensively, trap skills are also not effective in wvw so this change would finally give DH the ability for back line play as it was intended.

I also feel that a change like this would be more useful and less hassle then adding ground targeting to all traps.

Purification (Heal) : increase the damage and change this trap to cure 2 or 3 conditions, i think this would be a more suitable effect for the trap considering its name. Purification in its current state doesn’t compete with other heals such as signet of resolve or shelter

radiance traits:

Retribution: this really needs to be changed to 10% damage v targets with a condition.

my reasons for this change is retribution restricts what utility skills guardian use not mention is rather difficult to maintain. This trait will prove even more difficult for DH to benefit from as DH virtues are not instant, it would be nice to be able to use 2 traps along with bane signet rather then 1, currently i use save yourselves simply because it applies 10secs of retaliation which feels rather counter productive to me.

Anyway I am looking forward to see how dragon hunter turns out when heart of thorns goes live.

Puncture Shot: needs to have cast time reduced to .5secs to improve its overall dps.

I’ve also noticed theres been afew posts requesting that longbow auto attack be turned into a chain attack which would be a fantastic idea and actually give guardian longbow something more unique.

true shot: increase damage by 25%-50% , while true shot does way more dps then puncture shot, overall longbow dps is still terrible and increasing the damage to true shot would go a long way to help fix that problem and it would better justify being forced to stay still while casting it.

Spear of Justice (F1) : allowing the passive effect to continue to apply cripple even after this has been activated.

Wings of Resolve (F2): increase the leap to 900 range.

Shields of Courage (F3) : needs to also block melee attacks this would allow it to be more useful for not only the guardian but their party as well.

Dragon hunter traits:

Defender’s Dogma: remove this trait entirely and replace it to give guardians 25% movement speed increase whilst using a longbow, guardians are the now only profession with out a passive movement increase so it isn’t game or balance breaking to finally give us such a trait.

Traps:

Purification (Heal): reduce cast time to .5 secs and increase the damage it inflicts when triggered.

Test of Faith: reduce cast time to .5 secs and ground targeting.

This trap needs a reason for foes to want to get out of it, like maybe a continuing application of burning whilst they stay inside the traps radius.

Fragments of Faith: reduce cast time to .5 secs and ground targeting.

Procession of Blades: reduce cast time to .5 secs and ground targeting.

Light’s Judgement: increase the damage when triggered, reduce cast time to .5 secs and ground targeting.

Dragon’s Maw (Elite): keep casting time the same, but add ground targeting.

Radiance traits:

Retribution: needs to be changed to 10% damage to targets with a condition. Only guardians using the virtues line can benifit from this trait in its current state which is unfair. This change would actually give dragon hunter a more consistent level of dps.

While its great to finally have another ranged option then scepter longbow and dragon hunter aren’t that good in their current state not to mention the overall lack in synergy with guardian trait lines for dps, we have access to a great deal of damage mods (44% in melee and 54% ranged using zeal /radiance/dragon hunter lines) however we cant easily maintain those bonuses ourselves much like other professions e.g Thief and Revenant.

I prefer longbow to scepter but its dps doesn’t even come close to scepter which makes it a less viable ranged option for guardians.

so here’s some of my thoughts on longbow and trait changes that would i think would help make dragon hunter better.

Puncture Shot : needs projectile speed increased and it needs to always apply cripple, the bounce requiring the 2nd target to behind the 1st is just obscene.

True shot : guardians should be allowed to move whilst casting true shot and i feel the animation lacks visual appeal.

Deflecting Shot : could use a damage increase.

Symbol of Energy : should be cast just like the staff symbol, in its current state its so easily avoidable by mobs and players it isn’t funny.

Hunter’s Ward: id prefer for the final impact to actually hit 1st.

Spear of Justice (F1) : needs to be instant cast and ranged increased to 1200, not being instant cast greatly reduce how useful this skill actually is and only 900range reduces its use with longbow/scepter.

Wings of Resolve (F2) : needs to be instant cast and leap range would be a lot better at 900 range.

Shields of Courage (F3) Needs to be instant cast , the shield also needs to be brought closer to the guardian as it fails to block melee attacks greatly reducing this ability’ s usefulness.

Purification : seems rather useless , i think raising the initial heal to 3k and the decreasing the 2nd heal to 5k improve the skill, overall i don’t see this heal having any true purpose in pvp or wvw.

traps: all traps need ground targeting to improve general usefulness and allow for back line play.

Dragon hunter traits.

Defender’s Dogma : This trait should just fully recharge spear of justice.

Pure of Sight: This trait should just be a flat 10% damage increase to longbow, such a change would help make longbow a viable weapon for more then just world bosses.

Zeal traits :

symbolic avenger: This trait would be a lot better if it was changed to provide a 10%
damage bonus for 6seconds after using a symbol skill.

Radiance traits:

Retribution: needs to be changed to 10% damage to targets with a condition , in its current state this trait is only useable in builds that use the virtues trait line. This is a rather critical change needed to allow any non virtues dps build to work, considering for the past 2+ years radiant power use to provide the same effect such a change shouldn’t be a balance issue at all.

Valor traits:

communal defenses : needs to switch place with retributive armor.

retributive armor: remove the 250 toughness when a attack is blocked and raise the ferocity gain to 20% of toughness. my reasoning for this change is valor use to be a viable dps build option before the recent trait changes, this trait also has no use to the tank play style nor would any guardian ever in their right mind choose this trait over monks focus or altruistic healing.

I am aware it may seem improper to mention other trait lines apart from dragon hunter in this thread but we don’t use 1 trait line we use 3 and its important how all 3 trait lines we choose to use in our builds work together.

currently the only real option for a dps build remains zeal/radiance/virtues i feel the all the above changes will help make dragon hunter and other dps builds for guardians viable.

I hope my thoughts/suggestions help, I’m not trying to ask for guardians to be made op, id just like to see a lot of issues we have be fixed and for us to be more then a “1 build only” dps profession.

I loved this outfit in gw1 but without the wings it just isn’t same.

While i get that the wings may not have been included due to conflicting with back braces. I’d like to suggest maybe making the raven wings into a separate back brace itself.