Nike.2631:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

I feel its time they add more rune choices that give the run speed increase.

Something that gives + condition damage & another that gives + power would be greatly appreciated.

I agree completely.

+1 this I can completely agree with too.

Defender’s Dogma is NOT useless. Obvious combos is F3 then spam F1 like no tomorrow and for an aegis build is also pretty nice.

spam f1? Defender’s dogma is for the passive part. I will agree it combo’s with F3 on dragon hunter and aegis. That why it would be perfect as a major and not a minor, so you can choose it for a build that does block a lot!

Minor should be something that ok for all build with that said trait line. Defenders dogma biggest problem is it works against both the passive use and active use. And i need to also say, this feels like such a bad trait because we already got amplified wrath that burns on block and aslong you don´t have zealot’s aggression, this is WEAKER!

For people that want the passive part(burn and cripple) we will most likely already have supreme justice, we have very high chance of wasting the proc.
And for people that went for active use of F1(tether, burst and pull), the minor is useless a lot of the time, since justice is on cooldown.

Either change it to something new or make it better like “When you block, you active justice passive on that enemy and this work when justice is on cooldown”. It does the same thing, for passive your we get more burn and cripple, so we are happy and then active users will still see free burn damage coming out of it. BUT it is still just a clone of amplified wrath, and this is not even a cross class clone, both a clone of a trait from guardian itself!

Corelion.7460:

Defender’s Dogma is NOT useless. Obvious combos is F3 then spam F1 like no tomorrow and for an aegis build is also pretty nice.

I think u missunderstood something. Defenders dogma only sets the passive effect of the virtues of justice to full charge. This means your next attack after blocking causes burning.
It does nothing if spear of justice is on cd and there is also no cd-reduction of soj by blocking an attack. Spamming F1 will not work unfortunately.

Obtena.7952:

I think you confuse my point. It’s not about need, it’s about what the profession concept is. That’s based on what Anet has told us why we don’t get RS passive buff. You are correct … the need argument doesn’t make sense because it would mean everyone BUT Guardians need a passive RS trait/skill. I don’t see that either, so Anet’s reasoning isn’t about need.

Nike.2631:

Classes are defined by their weaknesses and their strengths and of the two usually the weakness give more texture to the experience. The lack of passive speed buff is one of the Guardian’s defining characteristics. Right now the workaround price is all 6 of your rune slots. If we get another way expect the price tag to be equally steep.

That arguments are way better than the “We dont need it, so sh** up” ;-) nike told me before.

However, if ANET wants to extend the mobility weakness for guardians also for the elite spec, its their decision and because its all about class concept (which ANET created), this is somehow untouchable.
But in this case, it isnt a balance thing, more a “giving every class unique weaknesses to provide unique playstyles” thing.

JimmydT.7281:

Nike.2631:

Classes are defined by their weaknesses and their strengths and of the two usually the weakness give more texture to the experience. The lack of passive speed buff is one of the Guardian’s defining characteristics. Right now the workaround price is all 6 of your rune slots. If we get another way expect the price tag to be equally steep.

That argument is way better than the “We dont need it, so sh** up” you told me before.

That argument applies to ALL buffs for a class that’s performing well. It’s true in addition to this more specific example. I’m glad one of them resonated for you, but both of them are factors in the design process.

Nike.2631:

Classes are defined by their weaknesses and their strengths and of the two usually the weakness give more texture to the experience. The lack of passive speed buff is one of the Guardian’s defining characteristics. Right now the workaround price is all 6 of your rune slots. If we get another way expect the price tag to be equally steep.

The problem is the price we pay for the run speed is incredibly steep compared to the other 8 professions:

Revenants: their utility’s are locked into which legend they use so swiftness from herald is near no cost at all, even better they can turn that cost off any time by deactivating it. You could say using the glint legend is the cost revs pay as well but again they can just turn that off by using a different legend.

warriors: the cost of their rs is 1 trait warriors sprint.

Thief : signet of shadows

Ele’s: signet of air

necromancers: signet of the locust

engineers: speedy kits

rangers : natural stride from druid trait line, much higher cost as its in the elite spec.

Mesmers: time marches on , same as ranger higher cost as its in the elite spec.

Guards: the options we have cost a great deal more.

Option 1: staff , retreat and save yourselves (with no shout cd or staff traits)

= with retreat and save that’s already twice as much, 1 weapon slot is worth far more then 2 utility’s so now we’re at 3 or 4 times the cost.

Option 2: staff+ retreat+ traits from honor : 1 wep, 2 traits, 1 utility this is a overall higher cost then option 1.

option 3: runes of the traveler/speed : for a full zerk guard the use of treveler runes takes 20% or more of your damage away, while to tanks or healer/support guards dont lose as much stats its a still extreme loss in comparison . Rune sets are really only a option in wvw also.

Changing defenders dogma to a 25% passive run speed trait would mean that the “cost” guards pay for this kind of benefit is now = 1st with ranger and Mesmer as it will be in the elite spec trait line. so it would still be a higher cost then most but also provide guards with the same build freedom Mesmer and rangers now have as well.
Before the trait from chronemancer mesmers and guards cost were fairly close due to the low up time of signet of inspirations up time. so it isn’t really a buff but it keeps us in the same place as opposed to a worse one yet improves QoL and build freedom.

Sharing equal cost with Mesmer’s and rangers is far better for balance then guards cost for it making what it costs the other 8 look like nothing.

I do agree that current run speed rune sets are terrible, but those should be a option for any1 who doesn’t want to use a passive trait or signet/utility to do so. Guards deserve to have that kind of a choice as all other professions do.

Blackdeath.2607:

The problem is the price we pay for the run speed is incredibly steep compared to the other 8 professions:

And the price they pay for certain highly desirable boons/benefits is steep compared to what Guardians pay for some things.

You’re as much advocating Necromancers should have aegis bubbling out of every orifice because other classes get it more readily than they do — which is to say not at all. That’s unlikely to change soon either.

Profession balance is not an exercising in picking out one-dimensional viewpoints and claiming “well that’s not fair”. It’s not an exercise in making all classes a uniform ‘gumbo’ of abilities. What matters is the performance of the whole, and like it or not Guardians as a whole perform very well. Eliminating things that set a class apart, good or bad, is rarely a desirable undertaking.

@ Karl McLain

I like the latest changes, the pull on tether is awesome. We guardians really needed a CC like that. The slight changes to the traps will make them look more favorably, I’d however still say a few of them needs a little more of a push. The change to Fragments of Faith is understandable, as it wasn’t meant to hit three times. I welcome it being made into a stunbreaker and giving stability. (We also have a trait which now stunbreaks and gives stability to us, when we are disabled I’d believe?)

Now I’d recommend doing something about…

1. Wings of Resolve getting interupted mid-animation. An evade is a good idea, but instant is even better. Mostly because we guardies wants to use our virtues mid shelter/renewed focus. To cleanse conditions, blind or add more defensive buffs when we’d exit the channel.
2. Hunter’s ward casting time needs to be reduced to 2 sec.
3. Heavy Light needs to be attached to a bow ability (Bow 3), to better use it and to also be able to counter it better if you’d face a DH, by dodging. Need to reward good dodging…

/Dez

Dezuel.4519:

@ Karl McLain

I like the latest changes, the pull on tether is awesome. We guardians really needed a CC like that. The slight changes to the traps will make them look more favorably, I’d however still say a few of them needs a little more of a push. The change to Fragments of Faith is understandable, as it wasn’t meant to hit three times. I welcome it being made into a stunbreaker and giving stability. (We also have a trait which now stunbreaks and gives stability to us, when we are disabled I’d believe?)

Now I’d recommend doing something about…

1. Wings of Resolve getting interupted mid-animation. An evade is a good idea, but instant is even better. Mostly because we guardies wants to use our virtues mid shelter/renewed focus. To cleanse conditions, blind or add more defensive buffs when we’d exit the channel.
2. Hunter’s ward casting time needs to be reduced to 2 sec.
3. Heavy Light needs to be attached to a bow ability (Bow 3), to better use it and to also be able to counter it better if you’d face a DH, by dodging. Need to reward good dodging…

/Dez

I wouldn’t say bring down hunters ward cast time to 2 seconds rather make it the same as rangers barrage (2 1/4 seconds)

Nike.2631

What matters is the performance of the whole, and like it or not Guardians as a whole perform very well. Eliminating things that set a class apart, good or bad, is rarely a desirable undertaking.

Mesmers use to have the same thing setting them apart before the trait from chronomancer came along.

The lack of a passive run speed trait does effects us as a whole, not just DH but DH is the trait line with room for it.
with staff , retreat and save just being used just for swiftness you have lost about 30-40% of your build and it effects your play style as a whole. Mesmers use to be in the same boat as us before so why can’t we be in the same boat as them now?

The balance between professions stays more the same rather then being further apart by giving guards a passive run speed since Mesmer’s use to be forced into using a weapon and a utility for run speed as well.

Overall while the passive run speed trait may allow us to better complete with the other professions it wont actually increase the rate of which we may kill another profession or be killed but it will get rid of a issue that has been driving most guards crazy these past 3 years. The best way to think of it such a change actually means you kill another player because of your build + skill. Yes I’m aware of the fact you could argue it the other way round. Still I feel the positive reasons for a run speed trait outweigh the negative , i ain’t saying I’m right or any one else is wrong its just my opinion.

I believe that both the arguments for a 25% passive run speed trait and against getting a run speed trait have been incredibly well presented and we’ve given Karl alot to read about.

So I’d like to call a ceasefire/truce on the matter. We’ve said our piece and I’m sure we have both reached the point where we’d both like to focus on other aspects of dragon hunter/core guard as well in this forum. I myself intend to post bit more thoughts on hunters ward but ill leave that til tomorrow.

No arguing 25% speed would be fun . Maybe that aspect will carry the day.

I just tend to think the case for it is stronger based on how it could change/improve the Guardian and DH experience without comparisons to other classes. I dunno if a weird and somewhat troubling minor (Defender’s Dogma) is something we can trade for it.

Huh… I wonder if we could get it with something like~

• Hunter’s Stride (Master minor trait). You gain +25% movement speed while all of your Virtues are ready.

~as a way of really confining it to overland travel and the earliest stages of a fight.

Looking forward to hearing your thought on Hunters Ward (cages!). That skill is beautiful, exciting, and just one-too-many-damage-ticks from being practical too!

nuaa.4962:

spam f1? Defender’s dogma is for the passive part. I will agree it combo’s with F3 on dragon hunter and aegis. That why it would be perfect as a major and not a minor, so you can choose it for a build that does block a lot!

Minor should be something that ok for all build with that said trait line. Defenders dogma biggest problem is it works against both the passive use and active use. And i need to also say, this feels like such a bad trait because we already got amplified wrath that burns on block and aslong you don´t have zealot’s aggression, this is WEAKER!

For people that want the passive part(burn and cripple) we will most likely already have supreme justice, we have very high chance of wasting the proc.
And for people that went for active use of F1(tether, burst and pull), the minor is useless a lot of the time, since justice is on cooldown.

Either change it to something new or make it better like “When you block, you active justice passive on that enemy and this work when justice is on cooldown”. It does the same thing, for passive your we get more burn and cripple, so we are happy and then active users will still see free burn damage coming out of it. BUT it is still just a clone of amplified wrath, and this is not even a cross class clone, both a clone of a trait from guardian itself!

After read it again, yeah, my bad. It only charges the passive so next attack will burn. I thought that it was recharging the active virtue which will be good. If only effects the passive, indeed Defender’s Dogma sucks.

well i would prefer 25% passive while using ranged weapons myself , the trait name you suggest is really catchy tho, maybe 25% passive run speed when virtue of courage isn’t on cool down, this would probly add more flavor to dragon hunter and simulate that using the more powerful version of virtue of courage causes the guard to become exhausted partially after it’s use.

(sorry i know i said id stop about the whole thing but reading your comment made that idea come into my head)
either way at the moment I’m just happy to leave it in Karl’s hands for consideration.

My idea for movement speed trait on Dragonhunter:
Make Pure of Sight baseline, change it to
“On the hunt: Your movement speed is increased(25%). Gain Superspeed while your Spear of Justice tether is active.”
This means once a Dragonhunter has targetted you, they’re really gonna come after you. It also has the decision making of “do I want to use the tether to pull them to me or do I wanna keep running at high speeds towards them” as well as synergies with other guardian traits like Renewed Justice.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

My idea for movement speed trait on Dragonhunter:
Make Pure of Sight baseline, change it to
“On the hunt: Your movement speed is increased(25%). Gain Superspeed while your Spear of Justice tether is active.”
This means once a Dragonhunter has targetted you, they’re really gonna come after you. It also has the decision making of “do I want to use the tether to pull them to me or do I wanna keep running at high speeds towards them” as well as synergies with other guardian traits like Renewed Justice.

bruh that would be OP.

how about

On The Hunt:

“Gain swiftness for 6 seconds when you tether a foe with Spear of Justice.”

replace defenders dogma (or merge, whatevs)

Skyline Crash.6254:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

My idea for movement speed trait on Dragonhunter:
Make Pure of Sight baseline, change it to
“On the hunt: Your movement speed is increased(25%). Gain Superspeed while your Spear of Justice tether is active.”
This means once a Dragonhunter has targetted you, they’re really gonna come after you. It also has the decision making of “do I want to use the tether to pull them to me or do I wanna keep running at high speeds towards them” as well as synergies with other guardian traits like Renewed Justice.

bruh that would be OP.

how about

On The Hunt:

“Gain swiftness for 6 seconds when you tether a foe with Spear of Justice.”

replace defenders dogma (or merge, whatevs)

I thought of swiftness but we already have swiftness everywhere, I dont think we need more. Thought super speed was a bit more flavorful, but I can see why it could be op haha.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Skyline Crash.6254:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

My idea for movement speed trait on Dragonhunter:
Make Pure of Sight baseline, change it to
“On the hunt: Your movement speed is increased(25%). Gain Superspeed while your Spear of Justice tether is active.”
This means once a Dragonhunter has targetted you, they’re really gonna come after you. It also has the decision making of “do I want to use the tether to pull them to me or do I wanna keep running at high speeds towards them” as well as synergies with other guardian traits like Renewed Justice.

bruh that would be OP.

how about

On The Hunt:

“Gain swiftness for 6 seconds when you tether a foe with Spear of Justice.”

replace defenders dogma (or merge, whatevs)

I thought of swiftness but we already have swiftness everywhere, I dont think we need more. Thought super speed was a bit more flavorful, but I can see why it could be op haha.

true lol but getting swiftness requires compromising utilities and weapons to get it. this would be for those who want to be full medi while not having to use a staff to be fast

Skyline Crash.6254:

true lol but getting swiftness requires compromising utilities and weapons to get it. this would be for those who want to be full medi while not having to use a staff to be fast

Just wondering should mediation builds have easier 25% MS, swiftness or super speed without having to sacrifice something important because of their instant skills & burst teleport? What becomes their weakness?

Does F3 actually “blocks” (trigger traits on block), invulnerability, evades, absorbs projectiles or what? It got changed a few times, now I don’t know what it actually does.

Blackdeath.2607:

Doesn’t really matter whether a core guard or DH guard needs a 25% passive run speed trait more/less.

The only trait line that actually has any room for this addition is the dragon hunter trait line by replacing defenders dogma with a 25% passive run speed trait.

If that’s the ONLY place it would be good, then any 25% RS buff we would get FOR SURE shouldn’t be a trait.

Just gonna copy this here and grounds for discussion about Guardian spirit weapons…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros are going to be affected by a systemic change that should increase their survivability quite a lot. In addition to that several changes to how Gyros follow you and their rate of travel were made – they shouldn’t zig-zag randomly about anymore even if you’re not moving and try to stay pretty close to you while you are moving.
…

• Several Gyros received increased movement speeds to help keep them close to you as you move and some skill changes to make them more effective at their jobs, like increased range on their abilities.

• Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death. … This should encourage players to keep them around to gain their benefits for longer.

Well wishes,
~ Irenio

Nike.2631:

Just gonna copy this here and grounds for discussion about Guardian spirit weapons…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros are going to be affected by a systemic change that should increase their survivability quite a lot. In addition to that several changes to how Gyros follow you and their rate of travel were made – they shouldn’t zig-zag randomly about anymore even if you’re not moving and try to stay pretty close to you while you are moving.
…

• Several Gyros received increased movement speeds to help keep them close to you as you move and some skill changes to make them more effective at their jobs, like increased range on their abilities.

• Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death. … This should encourage players to keep them around to gain their benefits for longer.

Well wishes,
~ Irenio

Looking positive for some spirit weapon improvements.

Bezagron.7352:

Nike.2631:

Just gonna copy this here and grounds for discussion about Guardian spirit weapons…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros are going to be affected by a systemic change that should increase their survivability quite a lot. In addition to that several changes to how Gyros follow you and their rate of travel were made – they shouldn’t zig-zag randomly about anymore even if you’re not moving and try to stay pretty close to you while you are moving.
…

• Several Gyros received increased movement speeds to help keep them close to you as you move and some skill changes to make them more effective at their jobs, like increased range on their abilities.

• Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death. … This should encourage players to keep them around to gain their benefits for longer.

Well wishes,
~ Irenio

Looking positive for some spirit weapon improvements.

I really hope they add similar changes at HoT launch

I like the changes I see.

Spear of Justice still needs to be a projectile finisher and Wings of Resolve still needs to be a leap finisher. These are small changes which should further justify taking Dragonhunter and reduce the pain from loss of instacast: proactive vs defensive.

I would still like to see one or two traps open up fields like light or fire.

Bezagron.7352:

Nike.2631:

Just gonna copy this here and grounds for discussion about Guardian spirit weapons…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros are going to be affected by a systemic change that should increase their survivability quite a lot. In addition to that several changes to how Gyros follow you and their rate of travel were made – they shouldn’t zig-zag randomly about anymore even if you’re not moving and try to stay pretty close to you while you are moving.
…

• Several Gyros received increased movement speeds to help keep them close to you as you move and some skill changes to make them more effective at their jobs, like increased range on their abilities.

• Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death. … This should encourage players to keep them around to gain their benefits for longer.

Well wishes,
~ Irenio

Looking positive for some spirit weapon improvements.

Indeed! I still refuse to get my hopes up, but I started a direct Q&A thread to the Devs asking about this. I’m not sure I expect to get an answer, but you never know unless you try, haha.

Bezagron.7352:

Skyline Crash.6254:

true lol but getting swiftness requires compromising utilities and weapons to get it. this would be for those who want to be full medi while not having to use a staff to be fast

Just wondering should mediation builds have easier 25% MS, swiftness or super speed without having to sacrifice something important because of their instant skills & burst teleport? What becomes their weakness?

valor/meditation guards weakness is lesser damage capability for higher survival, before the pre-hot trait changes valor and virtues were basically equal in damage.

The arguments for and against a passive run speed trait have already been well presented , its time we leave it in Karl’s hands for consideration now so we can focus on discussing other stuff for guard/dragon hunter.

Obtena.7952 a passive trait is actually the only option for such addition to guards, we already have 5 signets so a run speed signet can’t be added. As the core guard traits are designed rather well there’s only 2 possible trait locations for a passive run speed trait to be added one is Zealots speed from zeal trait line and the 2nd is defenders dogma from dragon hunter trait line. Defenders dogma is pretty much a empty hole in DH traits right now. For longbow DH guards zeal is less viable as a option over virtue trait line so adding it to zeal would make it less accessible for ranged DH builds. This is why replacing defenders dogma with a passive run speed trait is the best option should Karl decide to add it.

As i said before its time to let Karl make the decision over this with all arguments for/against such a trait and for us all to focus on other parts of dragon hunter/core guard.

If & only if cripple access became a minor trait meaning all DH builds no matter what woul have it I’m not sure I see a need for 25% MS on DHs. Regard rune set better options for a 25% MS I’m all for that. Give us ones with precision or power.

But your right Blackdeath we’ve discussed this enough for the devs to decide.

Yep i agree too, i would prefer something like this Each time you block an attack or destroy a projectile, your next attack will trigger Justice passive regarless of the cooldown (1s ICD)

now what will be our next topic for discussion? LB1 or LB5?. Any suggestions ?

So onto other things such as hunters ward/ lb 5

while i love the visual appeal of this attack to bits (kinda reminds me a little of judgment from our long gone tome of wrath).

I gotta agree with what people have been saying the cast is time is way to long and its the easiest thing in the world for any one to dodge and some of us feel that the CD is a bit long. I’d say at the very least changing the cast time is needed.

anyway here is some ideas on the matter.

Idea : reduce cast time 1.5 seconds( and make it fire the arrows at the end of the cast rather then start) make hunters ward a single hit instead and apply the cage effect to all foes it hits in the area (5 max) immediately after impact and 4seconds of cripple. In short make it like a more tactical form of true shot but with less damage.

so i guess it sound something like this:

Hunters ward ( or rename it to hunters judgement) 1.5second cast time (cast time up for debate) 45 second cool down.

Bombard the targeted area with a charged shot that forms a barrier around foes it hits.

1600 damage
cripple (4secs) : -50% movement speed
maximum number of barriers : 5
ring duration: 5 seconds
radius: 360

I reckon this option would be good enough to keep the CD at the same 45secs.

To me the current hunters ward while i love the animation for it i hate that its almost a near copy of rangers barrage and it doesn’t feel unique enough.

1 sad thing about the tome of wrath change was guards lost the judgement spell so i reckon having a ranged attack a little like that would be great in terms flavor (kinda like we guards finally read the tome of wrath properly and learnt “feel my wrath” and this longbow skill from the knowledge within thus no longer needing the tome anymore).

Idea 2: change cast time to 2.2seconds, make the initial 1st hit apply the barrier effect instead of the last, while this may in one way make it even easier for enemy players they would be forced into using their movement skills in order to do so, but it would allow the guard to tactically punish a target they know has already used their escapes skills.

Idea 3 : change cast time to 2.2seconds make the final impact hit 1st instead of last but apply the barrier effect on the last small hit, this option would at least make this skill feel less wasted when a guard uses it on a player but gives the opposing player the same chance to dodge the barrier effect .

As for puncture shot (LB 1) the solution is really simple: remove the bounce requirement.

Part of me would rather Puncture shot hitting 3 instead of 2 for better aoe on lb considering its slow cast but I’m probably asking a bit much there.

yep, it feel like a copy/paste of Ranger’s Barrage. My idea is more simple If Hunter’s Ward hit any tethered enemy (Spear of Justice) cage will drop instantly or immobilized for x duration. But i really like your first idea, one single burst sounds nice

PD: one easy solution for LB1 can be Cripple your target if you hit them from behind or from the side for 1s (66% of its full duration from side hit)

Noctis.3426:

yep, it feel like a copy/paste of Ranger’s Barrage. My idea is more simple If Hunter’s Ward hit any tethered enemy (Spear of Justice) cage will drop instantly or immobilized for x duration. But i really like your first idea, one single burst sounds nice

PD: one easy solution for LB1 can be Cripple your target if you hit them from behind or from the side for 1s (66% of its full duration from side hit)

Love your idea for Puncture shot notcis, that would really allow us to feel like we’re truly hunting down our fleeing prey, certainly would help our ability to apply cripple which i have felt is a bit low overall.

Blackdeath.2607:

Obtena.7952 a passive trait is actually the only option for such addition to guards, we already have 5 signets so a run speed signet can’t be added. As the core guard traits are designed rather well there’s only 2 possible trait locations for a passive run speed trait to be added one is Zealots speed from zeal trait line and the 2nd is defenders dogma from dragon hunter trait line. Defenders dogma is pretty much a empty hole in DH traits right now. For longbow DH guards zeal is less viable as a option over virtue trait line so adding it to zeal would make it less accessible for ranged DH builds. This is why replacing defenders dogma with a passive run speed trait is the best option should Karl decide to add it.

As i said before its time to let Karl make the decision over this with all arguments for/against such a trait and for us all to focus on other parts of dragon hunter/core guard.

Actually I have pointed out multiple times in various threads that there is plenty of room for them to make allot of changes to the base guardian.

Looking at the entire zeal line there are various traits that should be merged, majors & minors that should be swapped around etc…

There are also various traits throughout all the trees that discourage the use of virtues or encourage you to use them.
And by merging the ones that apply to the same virtues & as well as merging various symbol traits they open up quite a few spots for new options.

As for defenders dogma becoming a run speed passive, yes that could work too.
Just don’t forget to keep reminding them of the various glaring problems with the existing talent trees.

Noctis.3426:

yep, it feel like a copy/paste of Ranger’s Barrage. My idea is more simple If Hunter’s Ward hit any tethered enemy (Spear of Justice) cage will drop instantly or immobilized for x duration. But i really like your first idea, one single burst sounds nice

PD: one easy solution for LB1 can be Cripple your target if you hit them from behind or from the side for 1s (66% of its full duration from side hit)

Why limit it to enemies tethered by justice.

Why not simply make it a cone attack that immobilizes all enemies it hits.

Depending on how fast & wide they make the cone it could have a wide variety in how long it immobilizes & what the CD is.

Heck they could even add additional effects to it, like bleeds, burning etc….

As for LB1, I like your suggestion.

However what if it always did a 1 second cripple if the target is burning ?
While this wouldn’t be quite as good as attacking from behind with your suggestion would be it would allow a bit more flexibility in angle of attack.

I still believe Zealot’s Aggression should at least be a DH minor with maybe Dulled Sense too. These as minors sync better with all DH builds we could design & also would work fantastic with other trait lines.

It also goes “Hey selecting DH provides access to Cripple, enjoy guys & gals”.

ok how bout this:

Puncturing shot: 0.75second cast

Fire a arrow that bounces between 1-2 foes apply 1second of cripple per for hit.

damage 764 (based on the default number shown on the dullfy dragon hunter thread)
Maxium bounces: 1
Combo finisher: Physical Projectile (20%)

so if it hits 1 target that target gets crippled for 1sec and if 2 are hit both get crippled for 2secs. This would finally give Dh a reliable cripple that wouldn’t t necessarily be too strong v 1 target and does the same it already does to 2 targets.

still would prefer if puncture shot bounced twice so Lb had better AOE, true shot doesn’t always hit more then one after all.

I still love Noctis.3426 idea on puncture shot aswell.

On a side note tho deflecting shot seemed rather inaccurate when fired diagonally, even if u placed your cursor precisely on the target it would miss alot unless fired in straight line, on smaller angled shots it would hit but larger angles it just misses completely.

I’m okay with Puncture shot’s cripple being conditional, but the bounce needs to change to a radius check instead of “on the back” check. They’ve already mentioned they tend to shy away from putting CC conditions like cripple on auto attacks when they were doing the Reaper stream reveal, and I certainly understand why, but as it stands now even if you’re fighting two enemies who’re close together it STILL might not be enough to proc the cripple.

So we get a spear pull (great) and a trait buff that boosts damage at range.

That is basically representative of why Dragonhunter isn’t going to work well once balanced after the launch shiney.

Anet needs to make up it’s mind as currently the problems are blatantly as follows;

- Traps in general, we cannot even throw them so we need to get in close to use them anyway.
– Virtue 2 is a leap into allies, healing them (likely melee) but you want to be ranged for the dps trait buff.
– Virtue 1 will pull enemies close but the longbow needs to be at range for dps buff.
– Shouts range is 600 but 13% dmg buff is when beyond 600 range.

The synergy is terrible a Dragonhunter can not be at peak at any time as a Guardian as it will be constantly be competing with either close or far range. Traps should be exchanged for chants (shouts with a cast time and/or pulsating effect?) with at least 900 range.

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

I’d rather have precision or ferocity instead of power. Also, something affecting traps might be in order as well (something like making traps burn so that rangers could consider the rune set as well).

Vennyhedgie.5369:

…Also, something affecting traps might be in order as well (something like making traps burn so that rangers could consider the rune set as well).

I suggested something similar in the original proposal for Superior Runes of the Trapper and they shifted it to self-affecting benefits. I don’t think the tech is there to alter trap-entities in that fashion.

I’m not adverse to the 1/3/5 benefit being Precision. That would feed Empowered Might nicely.

@Ragnar the Rock
It would be amazing if they rework LB5 into one single hit or a reliable source of cc, but i dont think that is going to happen.

I like your LB1 idea for a minor trait. When you Burn an enemy you also make them cripple for 2s (5s ICD)

@Bezagron
Many people suggested that Zealot’s Aggression should be our new Minor Grandmaster

@Blackdeath
Here is my counter offer. Fire an arrow that can cripple your target if you hit them from behind or from the side for 1s. if your target is already cripple, It is not going to re-apply it (cripple) but instead the arrow will shatter and damage the two nearest enemies (Radius 240-300)

Pyriel.4370:

So we get a spear pull (great) and a trait buff that boosts damage at range.

That is basically representative of why Dragonhunter isn’t going to work well once balanced after the launch shiney.

Anet needs to make up it’s mind as currently the problems are blatantly as follows;

- Traps in general, we cannot even throw them so we need to get in close to use them anyway.
– Virtue 2 is a leap into allies, healing them (likely melee) but you want to be ranged for the dps trait buff.
– Virtue 1 will pull enemies close but the longbow needs to be at range for dps buff.
– Shouts range is 600 but 13% dmg buff is when beyond 600 range.

The synergy is terrible a Dragonhunter can not be at peak at any time as a Guardian as it will be constantly be competing with either close or far range. Traps should be exchanged for chants (shouts with a cast time and/or pulsating effect?) with at least 900 range.

This is really what I feel. Even at its best, the Dragonhunter looks like it’s suffering from an identity crisis. Does it want to be melee, or does it want to be ranged? There’s no way to differentiate between the tools you’re given enough to select one or the other, and there isn’t enough that is universal enough to complement both.

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

Certainly wouldn’t complain if they gave us this. Having to use Runes of the Traveler wouldn’t be so bad if they didn’t suck so thoroughly for so many builds.

Blackdeath.2607:

Obtena.7952 a passive trait is actually the only option for such addition to guards, we already have 5 signets so a run speed signet can’t be added. As the core guard traits are designed rather well there’s only 2 possible trait locations for a passive run speed trait to be added one is Zealots speed from zeal trait line and the 2nd is defenders dogma from dragon hunter trait line. Defenders dogma is pretty much a empty hole in DH traits right now. For longbow DH guards zeal is less viable as a option over virtue trait line so adding it to zeal would make it less accessible for ranged DH builds. This is why replacing defenders dogma with a passive run speed trait is the best option should Karl decide to add it.

As i said before its time to let Karl make the decision over this with all arguments for/against such a trait and for us all to focus on other parts of dragon hunter/core guard.

Thee number of current signets doesn’t exclude the addition of another. There is no reason to ‘invent’ rules to restrict what could be.

Noctis.3426:

@Ragnar the Rock
It would be amazing if they rework LB5 into one single hit or a reliable source of cc, but i dont think that is going to happen.

I like your LB1 idea for a minor trait. When you Burn an enemy you also make them cripple for 2s (5s ICD)

@Bezagron
Many people suggested that Zealot’s Aggression should be our new Minor Grandmaster

@Blackdeath
Here is my counter offer. Fire an arrow that can cripple your target if you hit them from behind or from the side for 1s. if your target is already cripple, It is not going to re-apply it (cripple) but instead the arrow will shatter and damage the two nearest enemies (Radius 240-300)

Sorry Notics i didn’t intend nor wish to insult/undermine or insinuate that your suggestion was inferior at all i was merely making one of my own. My sincerest apologies if it did offend you in any way or form.

once again you have made yet another fantastic suggestion for puncture shot changes. Love the sound of the shattering effect as well, but i feel the issue is puncture shots currently inability to apply cripple to 1 target and the poor bounce mechanic it currently has.

Once again tho another great suggestion you have made, looking forward to seeing more of these thoughts ill admit.

Or add it to Signet of Mercy. Healing power scales badly & the active is very situational. But I would prefer a rework of both Signet of Mercy & Signet of Courage with the addition of mobility through the GM trait making signet builds the go to builds if you want this type of mobilty:

Perfect Inscriptions
Sears a Symbol of swiftness at your location on signet activation. Signets recharge faster & have improved passive effects.

Signet of Mercy
Signet of Mercy Passive: Increase boon duration by 25%.

Signet of Mercy Active: Grant Regeneration (8 seconds) & resistance _(5 seconds) to nearby allies. Cast time 3/4 second, CD 50 seconds.

Signet of Courage
Signet of Courage Passive: Radiate healing to nearby allies every second (about 15% of what it does now every 10 seconds) , (360 radius)

Signet of Courage Active: Grant protection (6 seconds) to nearby allies and heal them (say around 3-4k with moderate-high healing power) . Radius 360, cast time 3/4 second, CD 60 seconds. If ally is in down state they rally.

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

I can hear the screams of all wvw guards saying GIVE IT TO ME NOW (and probably alot of other professions too)

On the subject of better run speed runes this is idea is beyond fantastic, it would certainly be better not just for guards but everyone in wvw. I myself never take my guard into wvw ever cos even traveler runes were never a good enough option.

Still doesn’t fix the run speed issue for guards in pve but id really love this rune set to be implemented as it would a far better viable run speed rune option for all wvw’ers not just guards.

I really hope Karl takes notice of this brilliant idea.

On a side note: love the animated picture Nike =)

I do agree Bezagron.7352 signet of courage is in major need of a over-haul currently its pretty terrible for 180sec CD skill.

Changing the passive effect to heal every second is a fantastic idea.

As for the activation my suggestion is : change the cast time to 2seconds make the heal equal to 100% of the guardians maximum HP and allow this heal to revive downed targets but downed targets are only healed for half as much. This change to the heal amount should justify the cast time reduction.

4.25sec cast was never a good idea for a skill that doesn’t even work on downed targets in that time not only could a enemy player kill you while you cast it, in pve scenarios such as dungeons or Fotm the cast time is also uesless and this is where it also really hurts that it doesn’t effect downed targets either.