Guild Wars 2

Zantmar.5406:

the developer stated his reason for the Nerf like 3 pages ago, he prolly will never comeback and look at this post again cause nis second response sounded like, if u dont like the nerf play another weapon

that’s why I have zero confidence in the dev team.

Consider this. They are changing the animation on skull crack to make it easier to read, which I agree 100% with. All animations should be unique and readable yet nothing has been done about asura. smh doesn’t cover it.

Zenith.7301:

Rednik.3809:

ThiBash.5634:

Try casting Meteor Shower or Churning Earth as an elementalist and then see if 100b is still such a bad skill. You know, since that has the same issues as your 100b, except the recharge is much higher and the caster’s defense much, much lower…

WTT GS for fire+earth staff skillset, no problem.

Give us your stances and we’ll give you our glyphs.

Number of skills means nothing if a warrior skill can do the damage it takes bundling 3 ele skills to do the same.

By all means, if warrior is that bad, play an ele. Something tells me you won’t get that far when you can’t auto someone for 3k crits and pull off 7k crits on spirit rangers.

Butnaked.9287:

Khenzy.9348:

I’m not sure why Greatsword is so badly criticized.
You can have a build like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJARTjkOxwtOqQMxBE0DNsK2C1D7oOijUBxA-ToAg0CtIKSVkrITRyisFNsYJC

Which I think it’s perfectly viable. You can even use Arcing Slice for perma fury on this build as you have quite a bit of adrenaline gain (it also hits kind of hard too). You start with Longbow to force condi cleanses with Pin Down, Fun of Fire and/or Combustive Shot, you should also force some dodges and a soon heal use with Arcing Arrow included. You then switch to Greatsword for a BladeTrail (Leg Specialist)>Throw Bolas>Hundred Blades combo for a safer kill. If you make your enemy play on your terms evading blocks, blinds and forcing teleports and other means to set up your 100b+TB combo you should be fine.
If 100b fails, you always have a potential 7 immob inside 3 adren Combutive Shot>Arcing Arrow>Greatsword Autos>Whirlwind which is just as devastating.
You have it all, sustain, antiburst (Defy Pain), mobility, prolongued pressure, burst pressure, condi prevention, condi cleanse and even hard CC (immob).

My point is, Warriors have other fine and viable alternatives besides wielding a Hammer (which will still be fine afterpatch).

gs is the worst pvp weapon. All that crap your trying to do with immob is fine in theory but in practice its a different story.
1)bolas are crazy inconsistent
2)your never gonna get a full 100blades on someone unless they went to the bath room
3)the burst skill is by far the most useless warrior ability. We already have great up time on fury without it and it does crap dmg. your better using ur burst on ur 2nd weapon which in ur case is the lb(100 times better move).

only thing gs is good for is mobility and that’s exactly what your gonna need to do with it, run away.

A skull crack will net you a full 100b easily. You can also land a 100b whenever any of your allies CC’s an opponent, and most importanbtly you can stand on a point and 100b on a downed body for massive cleave damage.

The build u posted doesn’t have mace(never mind that it was nerfed). You also don’t have frenzy on that build which still isn’t enough to get the full combo. Now you want me to rely on team cc to land the blades, seriously???? And why should I 100 blades the body, why not stability stomp. And btw gs burst skill still sucks after all that.

Like I said before you wont land this on someone that is smart enough to have a stun break or escape move. Its just another gimmick gs setup that good for killing casuals. Gs is TERRIBLE.

Khenzy.9348:

I’m not sure why Greatsword is so badly criticized.
You can have a build like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJARTjkOxwtOqQMxBE0DNsK2C1D7oOijUBxA-ToAg0CtIKSVkrITRyisFNsYJC

Which I think it’s perfectly viable. You can even use Arcing Slice for perma fury on this build as you have quite a bit of adrenaline gain (it also hits kind of hard too). You start with Longbow to force condi cleanses with Pin Down, Fun of Fire and/or Combustive Shot, you should also force some dodges and a soon heal use with Arcing Arrow included. You then switch to Greatsword for a BladeTrail (Leg Specialist)>Throw Bolas>Hundred Blades combo for a safer kill. If you make your enemy play on your terms evading blocks, blinds and forcing teleports and other means to set up your 100b+TB combo you should be fine.
If 100b fails, you always have a potential 7 immob inside 3 adren Combutive Shot>Arcing Arrow>Greatsword Autos>Whirlwind which is just as devastating.
You have it all, sustain, antiburst (Defy Pain), mobility, prolongued pressure, burst pressure, condi prevention, condi cleanse and even hard CC (immob).

My point is, Warriors have other fine and viable alternatives besides wielding a Hammer (which will still be fine afterpatch).

gs is the worst pvp weapon. All that crap your trying to do with immob is fine in theory but in practice its a different story.
1)bolas are crazy inconsistent
2)your never gonna get a full 100blades on someone unless they went to the bath room
3)the burst skill is by far the most useless warrior ability. We already have great up time on fury without it and it does crap dmg. your better using ur burst on ur 2nd weapon which in ur case is the lb(100 times better move).

only thing gs is good for is mobility and that’s exactly what your gonna need to do with it, run away.

Tammuz.7361:

The hammer damage nerf seems to be the 1 thing that ANet got wrong in this patch: everything else is more than reasonable including moving UF up to mastery forcing people to not be able to get a defensive GM and UF at the same time while also getting discp or tactics GM. Yes UF was available since release but burst mastery wasnt and the cooldown on burst skills wasnt.

Likewise mace was only really used for its heavy stunning in spvp, the cast time will have virtually no effect on pve or large wvw combat.

The staggering blow nerf should have been to take away its mobility which is what caused grief in the last patch, or perhaps to nerf its damage by a more modest 10% since it WAS buffed in the last patch if it was indeed felt to be too OP now though i question why people should be allowed to stand in hammer range for prolonged periods of time and not get punished.

The earthshaker nerf essentially makes burst skills in general an underpowered class mechanic, earthshaker has been available with its current damage since launch of the game a year ago including periods of time when warriors were the laughing stalk of spvp, while powerful, it is what gives the slower hammer its utility as a weapon, forces people to dodge, and made it useful instead of just running GS for everything, it is in no way, shape, or form OP and this nerf is uncalled for.

Been saying the same thing since I read the notes.

At this point I think they should just drop UF out of the game and replace it with something that isn’t as situational. You can tell that this trait was put there to help dmg output with hammer, mace and shield but its useless for everything else. Turn it into a GM trait, keep the idea of increasing crits but you need some other condition to trigger it.

One last time.

unsuspecting foe/burst mastery is enough to tone down hammer dmg. now I have to make a choice between.

a) dropping 10 points from discipline losing a lot of crit dmg and burst reduction cost. Without crit dmg crit chance doesn’t matter.

b) dropping 10 from defense and losing merciless hammer(because cleansing ire IS a requirement), loseing -100 toughness/healing and armor attacker(power lose). This would prob net you the most dmg.

c) or just shifting that 10 points that would have given me UF somewhere else(which wouldn’t give me any crits/crit dmg at all).

The crits and crit dmg is wats important here. I have done have power stacking hammer builds and even with might blasting and 4k+ attack(along with zerker power) I wont hit as hard as a crit build. Without uf giving bursts of crit chance your gonna have to go crit based runes and zerker and at that moment you will lose a lot of survivability.

nerfing hammer directly WILL hurt non meta builds(ham shouts says hello) and prob turn people away from the hammer entirely. 1/4 from 2 out of my 6 hammer moves is over kill especially when you consider hammer has no primary dmg dealing move like eviscerate. I have to COMBO my whole bar to get dmg and again 2 moves cut that much out of my combo is gonna trash the hammer.

For it to be fair you would need to

a) increase stun/knockback duration. DONT WANT, I get bad memories of other games with TRUE stun lock, im talking get hit then go for a walk.

b)Shift that dmg from es and sb and put that into the auto attack and fierce blow. With this it would be all about trying to take advantage of the merciless hammer bonus which would promote attacking after a cc instead of comboing cc together. This would be interesting.

OR

Just leave hammer alone and let the changes to uf and bm take. If your still scared of UF you can always improve it and shift it to gm(uf isn’t good enough for a gm). Hammer has always been a great weapon(yes, since the beginning), seeing it ruined after all this time is just sad.

JonathanSharp.7094:

The idea we’re operating under:

If you want AOE CC, bring a hammer. If you want burst or DPS, bring an axe or a greatsword.

gs for dmg dealing, smh. It has the worst burst skill and you wont land 100 blades on someone that’s played the game longer then 10 mins. It needs to be reworked, all its good for now is running away.

the nerf to uf and bm is enough to curve the dmg, the 1/4 dmg nerf to es and hammer 4 on top of that is just overkill. If you want to separate cc from dmg then why don’t u increase the Stun/knockback duration to compensate(no I don’t want this)? This hurts non meta builds and I can see it turning people away from the hammer completely.

Poxxia.1547:

Butnaked.9287:

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

How can you be heard, when you get a “l2p” as reply (it is just as common as “OP”)?
Seriously … do you recall, back when thieves could instagib someone from 100% due to Mug+CnD+BS? I didn’t really die to that 1vs1 with all my cd’s up .. but as soon, as that changed a tiny bit I was insta-gibbed (on almost every class). Yet many thieves defended that for ages … really (just an example .. could have taken ele’s as well).
If people just acknowledged what was brainless, unfun, etc., it would be a LOT easier to communicate. One would think, that it would be with the easy access to all classes, but it isn’t so: People still feel some class is “their class”, and kitten feels threatened if it is nerfed; hence the bias, hence the rage.
Now … in the next patch I see boonwar … I hope some more classes will be able to boonstrip :-S

current warrior isn’t instagibing like old thief and neither is it super tanky like old ele was. Warrior is no where near those two builds.

Void.4239:

Butnaked.9287:

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

1 ) Just out of curiosity do you play warrior ?
if yes : When did you decide to play warrior class ?
if no : What class do you play ?

2 ) How long you been playing pvp?

3 ) Do you seriously think warrior is balanced compared to other characters ?

If you answer these questions , we can see how reliable your opinion is.

awaiting your answers….

I’ve played nothing but warrior since launch with all of my time invested into pvp(both wvw and spvp). also would like to note that hammer has always been my main weapon.

im gonna come back and answer #3 for you later on, I don’t have enough to time to give you enough of an explanation.

edit

ok, now for # 3. Is warrior balanced compared to other classes. Good way to answer is with another question. Do setups, counters and tactics exist to fight the warrior? Yes. Tactics are the issue here. You would be in shock if you saw how many times I have killed other players that either spam dodges randomly or never dodge, totally ignore any boons or stances(ie trying to condi bomb zerker stance) or my all time favorite fight me point blank with ranged weapons. I hate to say it but that’s the problem.

Yes necro is countered by the meta build but all that means is that necro is fighting from a disadvantage, not a free kill for warrior. Any fighting game player out there is familiar with the idea of fighting bad matchups and the only way to really combat this is with information.

Warrior is a very straight forward class and that also makes it VERY predictable. This is something that everyone should have been exploiting. You see a hamm warr coming and you noe exactly what im doing and you should be playing it accordingly. Details are what make the difference. Like hammer animations, the fact that zerker stance can be hit with CC(this is very effective) or even better just look at the some of the popular builds and see what they got. I try my best to approach anything I play the same way. If something is killing me I stop and think what im doing maybe look it up and 9/10 I see instant improvement.

And then we have an even simpler strategy. Your build doesn’t do well for whatever reason or you just don’t like fighting warr? hit ctrl t and let ur teammates focus fire him out of the game.

GankSinatra.2653:

Butnaked.9287:

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

I wasnt OP, everyone else just sucked! Glad to see you’re building a bridge instead of adding tears to the river though oh wait

How can you help someone that just covers there ears and screams OP OP OP. OP is prob the most typed word on these forums. You had a few people that would try to post strats around here and I would try to help people in game but it doesn’t matter because any useful information would get drowned out by the whining. Nothing is never my fault, if it kills me its op.

I’ve played other games with communities that were all about tactics and theory crafting(a lot of fighting games) and your average player was a lot stronger because of it. But look around these forums and its easy to understand why you see so many weaker players running around getting blown up by things people understood how to deal with a year ago. Is it laziness? Is it a weak pvp community? is it the devs? Im gonna go with all the above.

and the great nerfwars rages on.

Vukorep.3081:

this build wasn’t men’t for spvp, and i did mention that other classes (including warriors) can exceed in some parts that this build lacks.

a warrior can get 100% crit bonus just as a thief can, but a thief cant trade 20% crit dmg for getting tanky, having 20k+ hp, being able to regen 1k/2secs with out any requirements, the ability efficiently heal and remove conditions party wide and still deal good dmg….i don’t think any other class can?

also i can equip a warhorn and switch a trait that allows me to turn 1 condition into a boon (again party wide) and do it twice ( 2 warhorn skills) as well as giving everyone swiftness, removing imobilisating conditions, giving vigor, and applying weakness to the enemy group….

bottom line, all classes can get crazy crit chance,dmg, power, condition dmg/duration ,even healing power. but not all classes can get over 20khp and 3k+ armor without investing in toughness and vitality (that leaves less space for other stats) and have class specific skills and traits (those are the ones that mostly get buffed/nerfed ,not the gear/stats) that have the potential to deal crazy dmg, crazy heals,self/group support,healing and dmg mitigation..all at the same time-as a warrior can

I understand what your getting at. Warrior can get a good mix of attributes. And in your comparison with thief your right, thief cant just shift 20 crit dmg and pick up good def. But the other part to that is thief can teleport and cloak, warrior cant. When you compare any class to warrior it really helps to have an idea of what warrior doesn’t have that others classes get.

these are things that multi classes can do that warrior cant.
-cloaking
-teleporting
-protection
-npcs(pets, spirits, minions, etc.)
-area denial abilities(things like wards and traps)
-invulnerability(things like mist form and elixir s.)
-Warrior only has one move with evade which is whirl wind.
anything else is class specific.

Warrior under the microscope lets super powerful but put in that crazy burst thief/mes or the unkillable guard(ive seen these guys swim through red zergs) things don’t look that bad.

Like I said before. I feel that wvw is more balanced then spvp. That build that you mention is fine because you will get other classes running around with other ridiculous builds(ie i seen engineers be either unkillable or throw out silly dmg).

the only thing brainless is people refusing to learn how to deal with it. Nothing in this game takes all that much skill and when we talk warrior its the most straight forward class in the game and those same qualities work against it.

When you see a warrior there’s no surprises, you know exactly what he wants to do and you can approach the fight accordingly. But that’s not happening, people die with full endurance, with long range weapons fighting warriors point blank and ignoring any stances or boons that warrior happens to have running(ie all the people dumping condi on zerker stance warriors).

The hammer was capable of high dmg since launch, the big difference now is that hammer wasn’t popular(gs was all the rage) and a wave of new players that don’t want to learn counters but instead want to call for nerfs.

The sad part is that Dec 11 the forums will be full of a whole new batch of nerf threads featuring some other class or mechanic and the cycle will continue because as long as someone doesn’t want to learn how to deal with a build, except that hes being countered, except that he just needs to improve(who doesn’t need to improve?) or that he screwed up the river of tears will continue to flow.

Vukorep.3081:

Personally ,when i get a class up to lvl 80 i try to find a “all around build” ,with few guide lines that i always follow.

Eventually i made this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIEQNAR5enkOk8YzDSBxEZABf4K0Moj5I9ANGw0A-jQyAYLBZCCMlBg+AlALiGbltIas6aMlbgUxK1SBcxyI-e

a warrior with
-3600 atk
-3100 armor
-23 000 hp
-30% crit chanse (50% cause of frequient fury)
-80% crit dmg
-30% boon duration

-A base reggen of about 520hp/s on average (healing signet + adrenal health)
-Shouts remove 1 condition (2 on shake it off, 4 in total)
-Shouts heal for 1600hp (4800hp every 20 seconds..)
-weapon swaps every 5 seconds
-supportive rezzer
-self sustained might

all that with 1 build on a single warrior….

I can deal great dmg, i feel tanky as hell, i get 1k health every 2 seconds by doing nothing, and at the same time im supporting my team with 4600healing every 20 seconds(some healing skills 6 from some professions heal less than that ) and heavy party wide condition removal….

all in 1 trait line, 1 set of gear…

I understand this isn’t a pure dps, or pure tank/support build where you specialize in 1 part and lack in another…but cmon, what other profession can have/beat this with 1 trait-gear set up?

And then i ask you, give me a reason to play profession such as a mezmer, thief, elementalist or something else besides “its more fun” or “everyone is playing a warrior,why not go outside the bandwagon” or " this class is far superior in xyz than a warrior with that build..nvm the lack of zxy that it has at the same time"

PS : This isn’t a rant about warriors being op, or warriors never getting the “right” amount of “right” nerfs.

My main is a guardian, and currently i’m lvling a thief, despite the warrior having the ability to exceed in more ways than a thief (just my opinion )

said this in another thread already. You got mixed ascended gear and food buffs, things that I CAN NOT get in spvp. And lets not forget I can get crazy stats on all classes(ie thieves breaking 100% crit bonus).

Kamikazi.5380:

Butnaked.9287:

Ahlen.7591:

People don’t understand healing signet and it’s downsides, it’s easier to QQ about it than it is to learn the ways to beat it. =/

its sad really. instead of spending 5 mins to figure it out they spend 5 hours posting that its broken. Communities like this never amount to anything, I miss older games were that complaint would be met with l2p followed by a detailed explanation on what your supposed to do.

Healing Signet is only a problem really in sPvP where the damage is half that in WvW and PvE. In WvW any burst will annihilate HS Warrior’s.

burst still does the trick in spvp. The problem is a lot of people wont keep up the pressure. Its shocking how many people will hit me then let me los around a rock until I recharge. Plus in wvw I actually heal for a lot more(not counting all the water fields and other support).

Ahlen.7591:

People don’t understand healing signet and it’s downsides, it’s easier to QQ about it than it is to learn the ways to beat it. =/

its sad really. instead of spending 5 mins to figure it out they spend 5 hours posting that its broken. Communities like this never amount to anything, I miss older games were that complaint would be met with l2p followed by a detailed explanation on what your supposed to do.

with the uf and bm changes you don’t need to touch nothing else. For the meta build to keep uf you either drop

-merciless hammer which is -25% dmg and -20 on hammer cds, a bit of power from Armored attacker, plus you lose -100 to healing power and toughness.

OR

-BM which is -20 crit dmg(counting 10 point discipline bonus), the 33% cost reduction and some burst recharge. The minor trait isn’t worth mentioning. (note that BM is being nerfed -3)

Either way your gonna lose dmg. The only way you could prob get it back is by doing something similar to the older GS zerker setups with no def at all. The additional nerf to the hammer is overkill and is gonna turn people away from playing any hammer support setups which is silly cause they just improved hammer shouts last patch. the dmg hammer is doin is all based on crit dmg so once you cut that down, cut down your crit chance or both your not gonna see those numbers.

Olba.5376:

Butnaked.9287:

Redscope.6215:

Butnaked.9287:

Things that happen in wvw are impossible in spvp.

Wrong. Plenty of builds directly translate to WvW from sPvP with just more stats.

Devs shouldn’t even consider wvw when they talk balance.

SO wrong. They’ve split up skills from sPvP, WvW, and PvE. There should be balance in all play modes.

for spvp/tpvp the es/sb nerf is too much.

There isn’t even that much nerfing listed. So much wrong in your post…

People care about WvW balance much more than sPvP. That’s where the majority of the PvP is happening right now in GW2.

tell me how to get 3k plus armor, 3k plus attack. 30 to crit, 50 crit dmg. 25k health with 424 ticks on regen in spvp. YOU CANT. spvp amulets don’t give you that flexibility. Ascended stats are higher then spvp stuff.

spvp
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQBYAA94rq46UQJ1D7qLOA-TgAg0CnIwRhjDHDOScs4A

wvw
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJASDGAQP+qKuOFUS9wu6iD-jUxAY/Al8KiGbhrIas6aMlLRUNA-w

no other wvw buffs/bonuses. Mind you that’s just doing zerker only. Wvw builds are better cause you can mix your rings etc. its all the same though right?

Your sPvP build has no weapon equipped, so its attack is lower than it should be. Once you equip the weapon, it gets 3016 attack.

FYI, the WvW build has 39% more damage there.

Also, he said “plenty”, not “all”.

saw the missing ham after the post. Still a big difference between the set ups stat wise(the crit dmg is just funny to look at). Also do not forget ALL of the other bonuses that are common in wvw that are not available in tpvp which would push ur build even further. Imagine when ascended armor comes.

Like I said before I like the crazy stats in wvw(yes even the part with the touch of death thieves) just don’t try to justify a nerf until u sit and break down all the other variables.

edit

im not arguing that u cant run the same build in both spvp/wvw, what im saying is that the stat differences between the two are VERY different. So the dmg numbers you see in wvw are NOT the same as you would see in tpvp with the same build and stat setup.

Redscope.6215:

Butnaked.9287:

Things that happen in wvw are impossible in spvp.

Wrong. Plenty of builds directly translate to WvW from sPvP with just more stats.

Devs shouldn’t even consider wvw when they talk balance.

SO wrong. They’ve split up skills from sPvP, WvW, and PvE. There should be balance in all play modes.

for spvp/tpvp the es/sb nerf is too much.

There isn’t even that much nerfing listed. So much wrong in your post…

People care about WvW balance much more than sPvP. That’s where the majority of the PvP is happening right now in GW2.

tell me how to get 3k plus armor, 3k plus attack. 30 to crit, 50 crit dmg. 25k health with 424 ticks on regen in spvp. YOU CANT. spvp amulets don’t give you that flexibility. Ascended stats are higher then spvp stuff.

spvp
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQBYAA94rq46UQJ1D7qLOA-TgAg0CnIwRhjDHDOScs4A

wvw
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJASDGAQP+qKuOFUS9wu6iD-jUxAY/Al8KiGbhrIas6aMlLRUNA-w

no other wvw buffs/bonuses. Mind you that’s just doing zerker only. Wvw builds are better cause you can mix your rings etc. its all the same though right?

atreyu.9624:

Butnaked.9287:

As long as you understand the difference. Things that happen in wvw are impossible in spvp. Devs shouldn’t even consider wvw when they talk balance.

Okay, but WvW is still part of the game. If a class it’s OP (not talking about anything in specific here) in one or the other game mode, Anet is probably gonna do something about it, no matter what they balanced the game around.

Ok lets think about this. How much of it is warrior and how much of it is bloodlust, food buffs, bonuses from towers/keeps, ascended gear, weird stat combos, wvw bonuses like guard killer and TONS and tons of support from other classes. And while were at it lets not forget that other classes can do this too, I got 3300 armor and have token 50% from backstabs.

My build goes from 21k health to 25k health, only heal power I get is the 300 from the def line(yet I tick around 424) and in battles when our support guys are done I have around 15 to 20 stacks of might on with a good amount of fury plus other free boons(ie stab, regen). Im not saying ignore wvw but we cant nerf things based off of it since so much of it isnt possible in tpvp.

IMO I feel wvw is actually more balanced with all the crazy stats. Think about it, you actually SEE ele’s in wvw.

atreyu.9624:

Butnaked.9287:

dmg in wvw needs to be token with a grain of salt. I have hit someone with an AUTO ATTACK for 3k on a crit. But this guy was obviously a bolstered 80 with some vul on and I had guards hiting me with might. At the other end of the spectrum I have come across engineers and could only get 400-700 dmg on those same auto attacks.

Ofc.
But 3k/5k ES (depending on the amount of toughness) are like ES normal crit for a Cavalier/Berz geared Hammer Warrior.
Im not talking about bolstered new players, and im not taking numbers out of my kitten .
I fraps my wvw fights quite regularly, and I went to check them clips for exact numbers before replying.

As long as you understand the difference. Things that happen in wvw are impossible in spvp. Devs shouldn’t even consider wvw when they talk balance.

for spvp/tpvp the es/sb nerf is too much.

Cogbyrn.7283:

So you’re saying that in order to do solid damage and gather the appropriate traits for Hammer, you need to actually dedicate points to it and build around it instead of just getting it.

Honestly, builds that get the survivability/healing and still get damage from Hammer probably shouldn’t get damage from Hammer. Why should they? They’re supposed to be support/bunker aren’t they?

And you can still get Merciless Hammer + Unsuspecting Foe. You might not be able to get Burst Mastery. But how much of your total damage on a target is from ES? Tell me, and I’ll tell you how much a 20% nerf entails.

its more about the overall “combo”. Its not like gs where you get a bulk of you dmg from 100 blades, with hammer you need to string it together. So you might go ham 3, ham 5, ham 4, ES and then ham 2 then auto attacks.

about the hammer support builds. They don’t do a lot of dmg to begin with. only big dmg you see out of hammer is off of crit so if you don’t have disciple your not gonna see it.

atreyu.9624:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Can someone explain why 20% damage reduction to ES and a 23% damage reduction to Staggering Blow is a “huge nerf” for hammers? I’m not kidding. Explain it. Go through the details of how it severely nerfs Warriors who use the Hammer. Please.

it’s not just those alone.

it’s those nerfs to damage + not having an easy access to unsuspecting foes + Merciless hammer (you need cleansing ire as MASTER trait)

ES with unsuspecting foes + merciless hammer it’s a guaranteed crit + 25% dmg each time, and on 5 targets.

Unsuspecting foes and merciless hammer are pre-calculated.

ES can easily crit for 4k/5k in WvW with a berz/Cav. Now it will be 20% less damage AND probably you are not gonna have unsuspecting foes or merciless hammer.

Unless you sacrifice Burst Mastery for em. Cleasing Ire is a MUST have, so Im not even considering putting it into the mix.

dmg in wvw needs to be token with a grain of salt. I have hit someone with an AUTO ATTACK for 3k on a crit. But this guy was obviously a bolstered 80 with some vul on and I had guards hiting me with might. At the other end of the spectrum I have come across engineers and could only get 400-700 dmg on those same auto attacks.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Can someone explain why 20% damage reduction to ES and a 23% damage reduction to Staggering Blow is a “huge nerf” for hammers? I’m not kidding. Explain it. Go through the details of how it severely nerfs Warriors who use the Hammer. Please.

non meta hammer builds already do moderate to low dmg. So with that nerf your just not gonna kill anything.

[quote=3139555;Raven.9603

Warriors: The problem with Skullcrack was the low cooldown that allows it to set up for burst over and over and over, and not the damage Skullcrack was actually doing.

[/quote]

I disagree. The real problem IS the animation. Overall the mace does terrible dmg on its own.

But now if anet sees a problem with the animation being hard to read are they gonna actually do something about asura?

the nerfs are coming because the casuals don’t understand how to dodge highly telegraphed attacked(too many people will die with full endurance). I been using hammer since launch and that meta build dmg was doable last year so for all of a sudden anet saying the hammer as too powerful makes no sense. Its all about them trying to baby proof it for the casuals, that’s why its getting double nerfed.

UF/BM traits is more then enough to lower the dmg out put but the nerf to ES/SB will just destroy the hammer entirely not just for the meta build.

Drekavac.4920:

grate that lot of ppl are QQ on warriors
whats this then I got 3k+ armor and look dmg I get from one hit of thief its 25% of my hp
learn to use dodge roll and leave warriors alone!

way too much to ask for. hammer dmg has been the same since launch(yes I used hammer since launch) but now all of a sudden its too much? Changing uf is fine but the direct nerf to hammer WILL kill off the other hammer builds which doesn’t make sense since last patch anet buffed shouts(hammer shouts anyone). But as long as the casual don’t want to dodge anything they need to baby proof it.

Kunzzi.5714:

So people are actually whining about a nerf to hammer while they get all these cool buffs? Still I’ve never seen the charm of Unsuspecting Foe. It was all based on a clutched hammer burst that is hard and annoying to use in a massive zerg when my fps drops to 15-20 frames. If you’re interested in small groups wvw or dueling some fools there are already tons of better and more op builds than hammer/mace and Unsuspecting Foe combo.
You can easily get 26k hp, 2k toughness 60% crit damage and 70%crit chance with sword/axe combo while dishing some hilarious damage in zergs, especially when you’re defending castles and keeps.
I personally only get annoyed by the longbow nerf, since I wanted to try condition damage build. I’m not sure if it’s worth anymore since that’s like 20-25% overall damage nerf to combustive shot.

cool buffs? where do u see those? All I see is a mace nerf, the meta build being broken and hammer being trashed along with all associated builds.

“You can easily get 26k hp, 2k toughness 60% crit damage and 70%crit chance "
Your talking about wvw, after u stack food ascended etc u can have any stats u want no matter what class u have.

tonyg.3824:

The changes to warrior wont do a lot imo, buffing reckless dodge? lol.
Anyway, I’d like to argue that moving unsuspecting foes to grandmaster, Last Chance to master, Opportunist to adept would be a great refitting of our arms traitline this would give use more options + would change the entire way stun warriors are played thereby making it harder and less damage because you would have to go 30 into arms and if you want cleansing ire and fast hands you cant get burst mastery or merciless hammer which would solve the entire problem imo but ya’know im just a gamer.

UF isn’t good enough for a grandmaster trait, the purposed change will kill off the meta build no problem.

The issue is the overall hammer nerf(earth shaker and staggering blow) which is a big hurt to the other hammer builds(ie hammer shouts).

Brutalistik.6473:

JonPeters.5630:

• Arms IV – Unsuspecting Foe. Moved to Master Tier.
• Earthshaker. Reduced damage by 20%.
• Staggering Blow. Reduced damage by 23%.

Jon I understand this was most likely the reason hammer getting this treatment even though it’s not finalize.

However don’t nerf Earthshaker damage nor Staggering Blow due to the unsuspecting foe bonuses. This will affect builds that isn’t primarily focus in burst damage forcing them to choose another weapon that can fulfill average damage. Losing a CC weapon is one thing, but using a CC weapon doing horrendous damage on it’s burst skill and number # 5 attack on a non zerker build is absurd. This will lead into more frustration in pvp overall on that warrior player and I’m sure we all don’t want that.

I suggest unsuspecting foe is move into the grandmaster tier to those that wishes to be pure burst builds. They will be dangerous but they’ll also be taken down quickly once their endure pain or block duration is gone. They’ll most likely play a build like build 0/30/10/0/30 or 0/30/20/0/20 for some defense though it won’t support them as much.

So please Jon reconsider this thought just not for me, but for all non burst warrior build players. We too have a say in this.

the nerfs are overkill. UF/BM changes will get rid of that meta hammer build while leaving the other builds(ie the hammer support builds) intact.

the hammer nerfs are unnecessary. the changes to UF and BM are gonna tone down dmg more then enough without reducing it another 20% on top of that. All this is gonna do is destroy other non meta hammer builds(ie hammer shouts).

They asked for feed back so I guess now its time to get loud. The other changes are doable but 20% to earth shaker and 23% to staggering blow is ridiculous.

just incase the devs didn’t see it.

unsuspecting foe/burst mastery is enough to tone down hammer dmg since now I have to make a choice between.

a) dropping 10 points from discipline to get UF and losing a lot of crit dmg

b) dropping 10 from defense and losing merciless hammer(because cleansing ire IS a requirement).

c) or just shifting that 10 points that would have given me UF somewhere else(which wouldn’t give me any crits/crit dmg at all).

to get those big hammer hits I NEED TO CRIT and with these changes no matter what I do I lose crit dmg/crit chance or both. Nerfing hammer dmg WILL hurt non meta hammer builds and im positive the build ur trying to nerf IS the meta build.

Kervo.2175:

Somewhat understand the goals outlined for warriors, in trying to prevent high C/C and DPS at the same time. However, can someone expand on the following statement when it comes to warriors and the preposed changes?

JonPeters.5630:

Our goal for many of the classes was to increase build diversity while still maintaining class roles and identities. Some of the things we increased were abilities/skills that people don’t run very often. Our goal was to increase these abilities to make them viable alternate builds.

Combined, all the changes below possibly go too far and are borderline overkill and will likely completely destroy the hammer / mace warriors; (other classes rejoice?)

JonPeters.5630:

Warrior:

• Arms IV – Unsuspecting Foe. Moved to Master Tier.
• Discipline XI – Burst Mastery. Reduced damage increase from 10% to 7%. Removed erroneous adrenaline gain fact.
• Earthshaker. Reduced damage by 20%.
• Staggering Blow. Reduced damage by 23%.
• Skull Crack. Increased the cast time from 1/4s to 1/2s. Updated the animation and effects of this skill to be more clear.

The end result likely been, rather leaving people the choice of alternate viable builds. You are removing current effectiveness of weapon choices outright.

If this change is overkill you have choosen for them. People will have to regear/play another build to keep up.

Mace: Longer to cast, easier to see – Can the range be tweaked slightly (minimal) on this as part of the adjustment? Mace has no other forms or cripple, snare or leap to assist in this landing. Hitting a moving target with server lag as it stands will only get worse.

Hammer: An outright 20% baseline damage debuff for the main attacks on the slowest weapon (high telegraph) in the game combined with the triat changes I think will be too far.

Warriors do need a change with the balance between DPS & C/C, but the combined changes seem possibly overkill.

Again, Why not start with just the changes to UF/BM and the longbow and see how it all evens out with other professions being buffed

If only the public had access to a test server to test changes out vs players with real gear and builds – it wouldn’t be a guessing game and soul destroying when ANET don’t quite get it right pushing to production servers.

it is over kill. All that dmg on hammer is coming from the crits, UF/BM fixs that since like I explained in my previous post I will have to take the hit in crit dmg or crit chance.

This WILL nerf hammer for any non meta builds(ie hammer shouts).

•Earthshaker. Reduced damage by 20%.
•Staggering Blow. Reduced damage by 23%.

this is way too much. Ur killing hammer dmg for the other none meta hammer builds. Moving unsuspecting foe is enough to tone down dmg since now I have to make a choice between
a) getting something else and loseing the crit bonuses all together

b) shifting 10 points away from defense and losing merciless hammer(because in condiwars2 cleansing ire is required).

c) losing 10 points in discipline which will lower my overall crit dmg.

You only see big hits from hammer on CRIT and now no matter how u slice it im goin to lose the crit chance, the crit dmg or both. The devs need to play some hammer banner, or hammer shouts first before they start destroying the lower dmg output those builds already have.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Warriors are pretty strong right now, but will be seeing changes in an upcoming patch.

We like how they can be tanky, and we like how they can do DPS if they want. We also like the CC they can bring. We just don’t like them doing it all with 1 build.

how about u guys try to do something about condi dmg. If I DONT bring serker stance and cleanseing ire I just melt, unless I do shouts and in that case I don’t have the dmg. And still with all that I see a death break down of nothing but condi. unless that’s what u want.