Guild Wars 2

So the thief? Worth it anymore? Right before I left the classes was getting hit hard with the Nerf bat. Mainly played solo/roaming DD thief in WvW. Was a glass cannon with massive spike damage and short bow for evasions and escapes. Still a viable spec? Started using a poison/bleed build for group roaming/zerg busting but found it to be lackluster over all.

What is most viable spec now in WvW? Know this is subjective as play styles vary but would like to know the best sneaky/spike damage builds to give them a test.

Before I left the Mesmer was one of the hardest classes to kill as a thief. Still true?

With the Sanduskel build it is actually possible to kill other players on their log in screen.

Straegen.2938:

Viking Jorun.5413:

You pride yourself too much. I was once a warrior main, and know exactly how to kill them. But go ahead and get kitteny, that’s how you die to an experienced player.

He lost me at stun lock a warrior. Thieves (particularly of the evasion variety) can take down a warrior but it is not easy. Stun locking a warrior is REALLY difficult if they are built with any kind of defense. About they only time I worry about thieves is when they catch me post fight where I am on cool down. If the warrior has stacked invulns or built for speed, the fight gets particularly difficult.

Most thieves just run away in my experience.

Pretty much everything you said here. I have a few tricks up my sleeves that prevents most thieves from running away. It is part of my build, and any class that swap weapons has the same ability.

A good way to counter S/D, or S/P (which is a little harder IMO) is to time you your attack when thief gets with in range of S 2. I like to knock them down when they shadow step in and try to immobilize me. If done right, they run right into your attack. I didn’t come up with this, learned about it the hard way while on my thief. Trimming is tricky, but when you do it, it is very rewarding. You still get hit with the immobilize, but you knock thief on their kitten , which can prevent the thief from landing their cc or striping your boons.

If thief drops a little red circle and then rush in at you on foot, this isn’t going to work as the thief set up a return point in advance. But due to the longer cast time on IR, it is much easier to land a knock down than it was before, so you can potential interrupt a thief before he shadow steps, excuse me, IR’s back. Pound thief on ground with H4, then swap to A/SH and add another stun for good measure and use F1 axe to apply some hurt (dependent on adrenalin). This is enough to down some thieves, and usually enough to convince the other you are not a soft target.

Not always possible, thief can use stun breakers to escape, or apply an instant blind with signet, or blind when entering stealth when dropping below or being hit for a certain % of their health.

Budchgon.2108:

Cain.6507:

Funny thing, on my warrior, I never lose to thieves. I enjoy the bags they drop, and it is even better when I get to kill two at a time. But bad players are not the issue, stealth is, of course…

We had a few guys like you on my server, the ‘I kill Thieves for breakfast and anyone who dies to them is a Noob’ guys until we had an annoying Thief taking one of our camps.
So ofcourse we sent Mr bigmouth Thief killer to deal with him, and ofcourse he died and then logged off in embarrassment.
So sorry, I call ‘Kitten’ on your “I never lose to Thieves” boast… either that or you have fought some terrible Thieves.

Too bad I wasn’t there, I could of taught you something. Takes about 3 seconds to understand thieves build. I pawn bad thieves and good thieves and nearly kill great ones, on my warrior. If I find an amazing thief I will long into mine, and hunt the guy down.

Thieves love to duel, well about 80% do. So on my thief it is /bow, jump three times. Wait for response. Then I duel with the really good thieves and learn more about what they are doing.

Why do I succeed so well against thieves? I know how they play… And I pick were I fight. This involves a lot of factors that most people don’t take the time to learn.

I will admit this much…. I get killed by a lot of thieves when I should. Such as I have low health, blew all my utilities fighting outnumbered, and an limping away to try to hide, to break line of sight, and let my cool downs recharge. Thieves are by design best suited to destroy you in these situations, and should. But straight up 1v1 encounters. No. If I lose to a thieve in a 1v1 it is because I defeated my self.

Thieves need some love, and nerfing stealth will kill a class that has been crippled in many other ways. Some classes are better suited to fighting a thief, and warrior is one of them. Large health pool, heavy armor, blocks, stuns, lots hard and soft CC, and decent burst can all be in one build.

I get rick rolled buy other classes due to my build, but thief isn’t one. If I built differently, other classes would be less of an issue but thief would destroy me….

Kinda seems like it’s balanced…..

Viking Jorun.5413:

Cain.6507:

Just reroll. I did so, and now bring the pain. Stun locking people is so much easier, and they complain a lot less due the fact they can see me. Never mind stun locking and tons of CC are a much cheaper mechanic. How many stun breaker do you roll? Not enough. Have a few friends, bring em, I will smash them too…. And kill enough and surive long enough for my friends to show up.

Thieves were balanced a while ago, and have since grown weaker but the QQ has only increased. Nerfed and nerfed again, I just gave up on my favorite class. Not because I hard to work harder, which I do on my thief, not because I had to rebuild over and over again, which I have, but because bads will cry when they lose to classes like thief because they can’t admit they were out played.

Funny thing, on my warrior, I never lose to thieves. I enjoy the bags they drop, and it is even better when I get to kill two at a time. But bad players are not the issue, stealth is, of course…

Blind field and perma weakness seem to do the trick against your kind, however I don’t play stealth like the rest of my kin. I like to be in your face and request that you send all tears to my P.O. box. Warriors are too easy to predict, and Asura seem to think that they need to be in my face to do anything, in which case I blind field you, strip your stability and proceed to stun lock you

Have a taste of your own medicine.

/offtopicalittle

Don’t think so. Blinds? Posion? Have you played thief long? How many good players stand in blinding powder? Do you know how many passive and active conditions cleans a warrior has? I can cleans conditions passively about as fast as you can apply them. I also have conditions immunity and can hit like a truck. Don’t mistake me for a your average (bad) player, I think like a thief, know all of a thieves abilities and animations. It is why I kill them easily…

And why do you think I would pop stability fighting a thief? Oh no, scorpion wire, let me me sideways a foot! Or is it to prevent your stuns and dazes. I don’t waste stability on thieves.

Just reroll. I did so, and now bring the pain. Stun locking people is so much easier, and they complain a lot less due the fact they can see me. Never mind stun locking and tons of CC are a much cheaper mechanic. How many stun breaker do you roll? Not enough. Have a few friends, bring em, I will smash them too…. And kill enough and surive long enough for my friends to show up.

Thieves were balanced a while ago, and have since grown weaker but the QQ has only increased. Nerfed and nerfed again, I just gave up on my favorite class. Not because I had to worker harder, which I do on my thief, not because I had to rebuild over and over again, which I have, but because bads will cry when they lose to classes like thief because they can’t admit they were out played.

Funny thing, on my warrior, I never lose to thieves. I enjoy the bags they drop, and it is even better when I get to kill two at a time. But bad players are not the issue, stealth is, of course…

Kontrolle.3514:

Cain.6507:

Also, your comments are false. Bad players on any class are easy kills. Stealth does not mean you are invincible. Thief and Memser class “may” seem easier to play, or more forgiving, but usually aren’t. I personally win more often against thieves than any other class. But I played one for a very long time. So most thieves are easy kill. It is really an learn to play issue. Thieves are very predictable, and are easiest to counter when they are they are in stealth. They are running away, reseting fight, or trying to stab you in the back.

Thief hits you and you use all your utilities, thief is going to reposition and try to finish you off.

Third hits you and you both use your utilities, thief hides to reset fight.

Thief hits you, you dish out a decent amount of damage and don’t burn utilities, thief most likely runs away.

srsly why do you even answer to that topic? Thats might be the most useless post ever.

It was to try to help someone who seems to have a hard time with stealth. Knowing what thief will do and why helps counter stealth. What you may not find helpful does not mean other plays won’t.

Don’t speak for everyone.

But in some extent your right. It was off topic.

Yes, shadow step stomp is fun. Any class that teleports can do something similar. I use teleports to stomp on guardian, usually have stability up at the same time. Thief can be knocked down on return from show step. And you can prevent the stomp this way.

Also, your comments are false. Bad players on any class are easy kills. Stealth does not mean you are invincible. Thief and Memser class “may” seem easier to play, or more forgiving, but usually aren’t. I personally win more often against thieves than any other class. But I played one for a very long time. So most thieves are easy kill. It is really an learn to play issue. Thieves are very predictable, and are easiest to counter when they are they are in stealth. They are running away, reseting fight, or trying to stab you in the back.

Thief hits you and you use all your utilities, thief is going to reposition and try to finish you off.

Third hits you and you both use your utilities, thief hides to reset fight.

Thief hits you, you dish out a decent amount of damage and don’t burn utilities, thief most likely runs away.

Stealth rezzing is one of the few counters to stability stomps. Blinding fields works as well but are easier to counter. Swing a few times, clear blind, stomp again.

Stealth is countered by direct damage or AoEs. Poison will make rezzing much harder and slower. Burning will do the same. Knock downs, stuns, fears, etcetera work to clear thief or Mesmer off downed player. But what is best is to attack the area where the stealth player is. You hit both players.

I am sure this tactic has been used to save you at least once. If you think it is broken and unfair, attack, break stealth and get spiked. Stand by you objections and become an easy kill.

Sanduskel.1850:

Cite, and I never claimed Aion was perfect. Simply that it didn’t allow easy mode perma stealth AND that it had hard counters. Read what you wrote. 5 min cool down, not 1 sec, lol. Lets not cloud the issues.

Aion’s assassin used stuns and passive evades as a class mechanic. Stealth was also part of the flavor, and they could stealth while in combat. Which is something you claimed they could not do. Try to stay on topic and not cloud the issue.

Thief does not have a cool down on stealth unless he hits someone. So one second is also misinformation. A thief in stealth is usually doing no damage, and is not doing any spike or burst damage. A thief doing burst or direct damage has a 3 second cool down on stealth called reveled.

Thief can chain stealth using cloak and dagger if they time it right and and cast cloak and dagger right as they come out of stealth, but they can only do this every 3 or 4 seconds depending on traits. If they miss time it, they leave stealth, or get reveled.

You post lies or misinformation daily. You lied in the reply I responded to, and so I corrected you. You are comparing apples to oranges. Other games do not use stealth like GW2 does. A fair majority of other games (and ones you referred too) used built passive evades you could not counter. And a fair majority of the games you listed, the rouge class used a stun locking mechanic to keep the player dazed an unable to act. These games you referred to also had in combat stealth, which was on a long cool down (and usually a long duration) but was used to gain the upper hand when you missed your rotation of the other player used one if his very limited stun breakers. So the rouge stealths, repositions, and continues to stun lock you to death.

This mechanic was far worse than GW2 stealth mechanic is now. You can hit a thief in stealth, you can use AOE on a stealthed thief, and you don’t get stun locked by thieves in this game.

To sum it up for you, don’t make claims about games you know nothing about,and don’t compare classes which did not use the same mechanic. Yes, they all could stealth, but that wasn’t their gimmick. It was not the core structure of the class. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Edit : Thank you for correcting my spelling error, very noble of you.

Burnfall, I have faced rangers this week who made my thief seem week and feeble. You need to rebuild, or reroll. I have a man crush on a ranger on SF who is absolutely amazing. Kicked my kitten like I was a level one green arrow running around with any weapons equipped.

Yes, his build and skill were so amazing I enjoyed getting my kitten pushed in. It was amazing to watch, and better yet, he wiped my group a few times by him self and took a group of 5 players to bring down.

I have always felt some sympathy for you for I have never lost to a ranger, and in some ways could feel you pain. But that sympathy is gone, I have faced off against a Ranger who soaked up my 118% crit damage like it was a soft tap on the shoulder and hit me for numbers I don’t want to post in print. Learn you class man, I rolled a ranger just to understand and find a weakness in the build. Hopefully I won’t run a cross any more Rangers like that one, I would rather fight a group of PU mesmers, it would be a fairer fight for me.

Yes, Rangers can be that good, and if you tried maybe you could be too. Don’t give up on your class, it can be very powerful in the right hands. Much more powerful than any thief, expect sanddusklairs thieves of course. He is playing on god mode with permastalthed 50k backstabs and plays all 17 of his thieves alts at the same time.

Aion…. The rouge class in Aion could re-eneter stealth while in combat. It was a rune or sigil, or what ever they were called, with an instant cast, a 90 second duration, and a 5 minute cool down. Problem was that other classes had similar (or longer) cool downs on their counters to stealth. Aion’s rouge class also was based off of stun locking down your opponent. The class also had passive evades, which was annoying when you knew a stun move was coming, used your shield knock down ability, and had it miss due to a random dice roll, then were stun locked to death.

And using Aion as an example of a balanced approach to stealth is just plain stupid. Aion’s rouges didn’t use stealth like GW2 does, their core mechanic was stuns.

Aion was never a balanced game, and one class was broken beyond all repair (spirit master) who could chain fear and dot entire zergs to death. (Ever seen a 30 man squad feared to where they are helpless) Bad example to site when the topic is counter stealth play and therefor class balancing..

You want thief to be like Aions, look up Fenders very old YouTube videos. A lvl 30 assassin(that was the class) solo roaming killing groups of lvl 50s with out breaking sweat.You may see a cleric name Littlejailbait here and there in the videos as well, which was me. So I know far more about Aions mechanics than appear to.

I wish I could play my thief like Aions assassin class. Or like EQ2 swashbucklers class, or even wows rouge class. They had tools to where stealth was not the core mechanics but only part of the flavor. And they had far more survivability. Most of their survivability was passive and requires no active skill to use.

God I wish I had a chance to evade one out of ever three attacks and had AOE immunity in stealth. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. At least not completely.

But I would expect no less for you. Sad but true.

When I first started playing, it was on a Friday, left to run some errands and came back after 7pm well after WvW reset. I didn’t know that your colors changed. Keeping wondering why I couldn’t enter keeps and why our guards suddenly didn’t like me.

Pretty sure it was funny to the other guys watching an up level thief keep trying to run for their life into a keep that my server didn’t own. Yes I was that guy

Back before shadow shot became unblockable, I would use it to reverse pull guards and mesmers, and sometime even other thieves. A lot of fun in the jumping puzzles in WvW, and even better when used to pull a front line guard away from his support squad. And since it was spamable, and after learning the bug to it, I used it non stop on those poor guardians. Pretty sure I am the reason it got “nerfed” to be unblockable… Sorry about that.

Sanduskel.1850:

Lol. You can see that coming a mile away. Unless when I attack from stealth. I may get half the damage, but I can do it while permastealthed and can hit at least 3x faster. do the math.

You Sir, are the thief master. Be careful not to dislocate your shoulder patting your self on the back so hard.

You have no creditability in the thief community, it is fine if you come and troll us, but please stop spreading misinformation in other professions forums.

I get it you hate thief, and you are so good at thief you have 17 thief alts you all play at the same time, and no one in GW2 can kill you because as soon as you target them they drop dead with fear, and you solo all dungeon paths at the same time, but save your trolling for our (the thieves)forums, where we have all learned to laugh at your silly comments, and where your misinformation is actually know to be just that.

Thank you.

I never meet a ranger I couldn’t kill, until this past week. There have been a few rangers on SF that have completely embarrassed me. I was outplayed, out maneuvered, and out damaged. This was not only solo/small group fights but Zerg vs Zerg.

Some classes are easier to play and there for require less skill for similar results, but the classes with a higher skill ceiling are going to be the ones where a player become unstoppable.

Thief is a good example of this. Bad thieves can run away, good thieves can stay and fight, maybe pick off one or two, great thieves will wipe large groups running a two-shot build (meaning they can two-shot and will die in two shots as well). And, after a healthly helping of humble pie, ranger seems to be too.

I wouldn’t be making this argument in favor of ranger if I had not witnessed it first hand. Ranger seems to be one of those classes that when “mastered” has the potential to be “overpowered”! But I imagine the skill needed to do so is very rare, requires a very low ping, and a player who knows how to predict what the other player on x class will do.

Most ranger are just plain bad, just like most thieves. Easy to play does not mean easy to master. Rangers in general seem to be bad players and keyboard turners, who don’t have a second weapon equipped. I lost count of how many rangers I fought who didn’t equip a melee weapon. I can’t even guess the number of rangers who turned their back on my thief and ran away and did not use any utilities to try to escape or defend them selves, but ran blinding while I auto attack them down.

But I can say, a great ranger, now makes me think twice. My first encounter with a great ranger was a very eye opening experience. I died as fast or faster than it takes me to kill the full GC bad rangers I usually find everywhere in WvW.

I enjoyed the lesson in humility so much I went back again and again and again just to watch the “worse” class in game being masterfully played. I have yet to down that ranger on my Mesmer, Warrior, or Thief. And I have yet to see that Ranger downed by less than a 5v1 hit squad. And no, we are not bad players, quite the opposite, but this one ranger in particular, was just that much better. It could be the 30/30/30/30/30 unicorn build that no one has though of, but I would bet my gold stash the player was just that good.

The SF Ranger with the Guild Tag COSA, very well played. Come to these forums please and share your experience, build, and tactics. Especially with one of the poster here who is known as the thief communities biggest troll. Maybe then he could have the justice he is always demanding. Teach him to play, because you sure as hell know what your doing.

I enjoyed getting my kitten kicked so much by this guy i made a ranger my self. Pretty sure I can guess at the build/runes he was running. I can’t imagine I will reach that guys skill anytime soon, but I would love to be able to wipe a 4 or 5 man organized guild group who is using voice coms and builds/traits with synergy.

And I will repeat this one more time, just for the haters out there, yes, we got wiped by a Ranger, a few times, who was just that good. He was even skilled enough to make very good use of his pet, he did not fire and forget the kitten ed thing, all the while wrecking the crew I was running with.

I almost felt like a keyboard turning ranger with no melee weapon equipped running helplessly away from a thief… Yes, it was that bad. But I enjoyed it, and so did the group I was running with.

^^^
Agreed.

Should have made my thief an Asura, would have been a lot of fun to kill people by stabbing them in the calf.

Wombatanator….

My kids were watching me make a new warrior Asura and I guess the small size and stubby legs and the tech theme of the Asura combined with just finishing an episode or Fenis & Pherbs (I think that is how it is spelled) led to my kids comming up with the name.

I personally love it. I use it as a battle cry when I smash into a Zerg and start kneecapping people like I was hired by Tanya Harding.

A lot of people have a very negative view of the engine ANET and NCSoft use to keep making money. Being a buy to play game is very appealing to the end user, but does not provide for long term profits. No profits means no game. No revenue means no development.

People complain about the gem store, but the money coming in keeps the game alive by paying for all the expenses that are involved in keeping a mmo online.

Asura Warriors are awesome. They tend to carry weapon slung over a shoulder and not off to the side I personally think it looks much better.

Animations look faster, but weapon speed is the same. Travel speed looks faster but is the same. A lot of armors do not crop though your head like you will see on the bigger races.

Asura warriors are very deadly in a Zerg, because you often get overlooked, literally, when there is a giant standing next to you.

And, of course, Asuras hit the knee caps of other races a lot when fighting, which just makes them plain old mean.

I will restate this one more time because it is a very valid argument for both sides…

Most of a thieves survivability is tied with stealth, most of our most powerful traits are tied to being in stealth. Nerfing stealth will cripple a majority of thieves builds, and reduce this class to nothing.

I am a big supporter of stealth, but also believe some aspects do need a rework. Condition cleanse is largely tired to stealth, regen is tied to stealth, our strongest spike heal is a stealth. These builds have become a “must” have due to the condition creep in WvW and are largely desired over other traits due to many of a thieves other traits being underwhelming.

There are counter plays to stealth, but require a lot of practice, maybe more so than would be required to face other classes. They require knowing how a thief plays, which is a time intense process many will not bother to learn.

If stealth is nerfed, thieves will need an option to survive with out it. Please keep in mind stealth is a core aspect of this class, like it or hate it, it is. Complain, moan, but make suggestions to maybe help balance what would otherwise cripple the thief class.

Thieves do get defensive when all we hear is negative, insulting, and demeaning. We don’t want our class nerfed to where it is unplaced our becomes even more of a one trick pony.

Does stealth need a nerf? I can’t say yes right now when with out it many of the numerous builds I run would be worthless. I would love to have other avenues to explore and maybe my thief would come out of partial retirement (I.e. Stealth nurse, harvest stealth bot).

But, and this is true, thieves are easy to beat when you know all of the gimmicks they use to survive. It required over a thousand hours on one for me to be able to make this statement, which is a long time to invest in one class just to learn how to counter it.

My thoughts…

Medium health, lowest base toughness of the heavy armor classes,limited weapon set.

Hammer. Ranged auto attack 900 max, with a leap, pull, knock down, and a retreat. Max range damage is weaker than close range, no stat leaching over 600

Mace with axe or shield off hand. No ideas on these….

Condition heavy class, steals health when hit, and leaches random stats bonuses from those being hit. Parasitic healing could be the classes primary method of healing, such as marking his opponent and steal a percentage of the spike heal his opponent uses. Class utilities could be limited to PBAOEs and would allow for spike damage and condition damage. Uses shadow steps to close gaps, and could summon one or two minions to increase dps. Shouts would be an area based life leaching attach, with a 1200 range that would get stronger based on how far away the target was.

I think it would add to the combat system, having to balance your damage around your dwindling health pool.

It should have the lowest DPS of all the heavy class, but supplement it’s poor damage output buy the life stealing mechanic, and with every successful hit it lands it slowly starts growing stronger buy making you grow weaker. This this stat leaching mechanic would be random, it would make each encounter different.

Just my thoughts, would be fun though

Chuck Zitto.2367:

I think a lot of you thieves are missing the point of this thread. This is a thieves stealthing in wvw thread. We all know there are good thieves and bad thieves. Good thieves in wvw never die period. Maybe in a setup up 1v1 where its agreed in advance the thief is not allowed to run away and has to stay in a confined space you can beat a good thief in a duel I know I have. When it comes to encounters with them in wvw though if you are winning they just stealth and are gone every single time.

This thread is about the fact that fights with good thieves have only 2 outcomes the thief winning or the thief stealthing and running away with no counter to it. A Mesmer for example has short stealths and slow run speed and one short range teleport they can be chased down and killed so I find them balanced. A thief will just pop shadow refuge or shadow step away and pop shadow refuge and gets up to 15 seconds of stealth with pretty much no counter. I mean seriously how often do you get a lucky knockback skill off perfectly that knocks the thief out of shadow refuge its like a 1 in a 100 shot. If they use shadow step first to gain distance the chance is 0 in 100.

That might be the problem right there. Why try and knock a thief out of SR when you can just punish them instead?

A thief in stealth is not doing damage. The damage output, even by low damage builds, is still capable of negating the heals per tick of SR. Knock the thief out of SR and you may stop the heals, but smash the thief in SR and overwhelm the heals and lock the thief in a small radius where you don’t have to counter thief mobility. Knock backs are not the best way to counter SR, direct damage is.

SR is mainly used as an oh kitten button, and when a thief pops SR you have now gained control of the outcome. Knock backs only force the thief to use a teleport or blind which often allows the thief to once again gain control of the fight. Direct damage instead often overwhelms the thief and causes a down which 90% of the player base will miss as they assume the thief ran away.

SR is actually one of the best counters to fighting a stealthed thief if exploited correctly. A thief who pops SR is usually in desperate need of the healing tick, and will often “hug” the inner edge to be healed and to try to avoid direct damage. A thief desperate for health will often over commit to receiving the heals per tick and in doing so will be outplayed.

SR will also be used as a diversion to allow for escaping, but this is usually when the thief becomes outmanned as the risk usually outweighs the reward. This is very simple to predict as the thief will either cast SR and then stealth heal, aka glow blue before disappearing, and reverse direction, or stealth heal, glow blue for a second, then cast SR and reverse direction to escape. This is also easy to counter by panning the camera around and looking for the best escape route, usually right behind you as you rush to the SR field and attempt to knock the thief out of it.

I usually swap to hammer, use the leap F1 ability to attack in the opposite direction I am traveling to the SR field , and more often then not, when the above scenarios play out, land a stun on the stealthed thief about the time they come out of stealth. I win, as in spike the downed thief, about 75% of the time when I employ the strategies I explained above.

This is on my super tanky warrior who hits like a wet noodle, maybe doing 700 damage tops on my auto attack with full stacks of power with hammer. 700 damage per hit isn’t much on most classes but 700 a hit auto attack on a GC thief is close to 5% of their health points, usually a bit more.

Tanky thieves (see what it did there) will survive longer but the outcome is usually pretty one sided. I play to exploit all of a thieves dependence on stealth and by doing so I use their “op” class mechanic against them.

Learn to exploit the limitations thieves have when in stealth and you will usually win, often resulting in a down. Thieves are no harder to fight than any other class, and just like any other class, have exploitable weaknesses.

I have given you exactly what many people in this thread have been asking for, more stealth counter play, and was able to do so without asking for a nerf or a new mechanic.

I hope this is helpful. It works, not always, but it does.

Good thieves are rare, but even then they can be killed. No one class is truly unstoppable in this game, it may appear that way but that is more of a problem a lack of skill by those who make this assumption than an over abundance of skill this assumption is made upon.

Or to restate this entire post as simply as possible….

L2P. It is not an insult, but good advice, the very same I was given over a year ago by some if the very same thieves I now roll stomp daily!

I have ignored most of these post because it really comes down to a learn to play issue.

At launch, thief was insanely OP. No one can say any different and not be telling a blatant lie.

Thief got hit hard with the nerf bat and then got hit over and over again. Some nerfs were deserved, and some were odd, and some seemed to be added with out any consideration at all.

Stealth is easy to counter, and it should be easy to predict to an experienced player. Most thief damage is timed in bursts of about every 4 seconds. Thief enters stealth, wait a few seconds and use an aoe ability or simple turn around.

You can assign a key to rotate you 180 degrees faster than a thief can hit you. It has happened to me many times, hit back stab and and my opponent spins around before back stand can land and I now have 3 seconds of evading or face tanking and my large spike damage, or pressure, was reduced to almost nothing.

The counter to stealth is to know how the stealth mechanic works and exploit all the weaknesses that goes along with it. Stealth does not equal damage immunity. Stealth does not equal damage mitigation. Stealth makes you harder to hit but does negate any of the damage comming from the skill being used to hit you. Most thieves can be forced to dodge roll right after entering stealth because if the don’t they end up eating damage they can’t afford to take and are one dodge short after stealth ends. Toughness prevents spike damage severity, and vitality prevents reaching the all important 50% health barrier where a thief will be able to do they real damage to you.

Thief is by far my favorite class to fight against, good one are rare, bad one are common, and the fight is never dull. Frustrating? Maybe, time consuming, usually, but never dull.

But I know how stealth works, I know how thief uses stealth, and I rarely let the same thief land a successful back stab twice. Positioning, trimming, and key binding the quick turn key to one of my mouses extra button is all the counter to stealth I need.

I retired my thief recently, as I refuse to adapt to another undeserved nerf and I decided I wanted to really try easy mode.

I rolled a warrior and let me tell you, you want to talk about OP! I haven’t lost to thief in a 1v1 or 1v2 since I hit 80 on my warrior. Thieves are free bags, unless they are really good, then they are escape artists. But I learned to play… A thief.

As to Sanduskel, and his 5 thief alts, they are actually clones as he is really a PU Mesmer who just doesn’t understand he isn’t playing a thief because he didn’t read the class description when he made his Mesmer. That is why he is so awesome at playing “thief”. Because he is playing Mesmer which is much easier, a lot cheesier, and a lot more useful in every way when it comes to pvp and WvW.

Stop complaining about stealth and asking for counters, learn about the ones already built into the game. Learn stealth weaknesses and you will never ask for a stealth nerf again. It is the one of the easiest class ability to counter, at least where thief is concerned.

You literally only have to count to 3 and quickly turn around.

As for getting ganked, well, use your camera, look around. A thief will not waste the initiative and utilities just to stealth to you completely unseen across large distances unless they stupid. Sanduskel might on his Mesmer since he is the only person in gw2 who can perma stealth.

Not to mention the how the Cold Cut build is going to be FOTM. I mean, sure you could spec for roasted sandwich builds but we all know revenges is a dish (or sandwich) best served cold.

Love to WvW? Love facing huge Zergs and collecting Badges and Wxp?
Then come to GoM and help us push back against the mindless masses of DH! Enjoy permanent outmanned buff in DH BL, EB , and your own borderland!

Bored after wiping one Zerg on your current servers and wishing another one would show up? Then give GoM a try! The Zerg’s never ever end. And just when you think you push back a DH Zerg, another one will come. Two Zergs for the price of one!

But wait, there is more! Love farming Golems? GoM BL is full of them, not only Alphas here folks, we have Golem Zergs filled with Omegas Too!!! Twice the Golem, all the time.

And YOU get all this for the low price of 1800 gems.!!!

*disclaimer: similar experiences can also be experienced on NSP server.
This is a limited time offer. Not all experiences will be similar. These views are not the views of Anet and NCsoft.

DH BL is know to be deadly to roamers by the states of California. Zergs are to be expected. One solo roamed will generate a 15 man Zerg. Tea bagging and taunting has been associated with DH BL defenders.

In all honesty DH has been giving GoM a very tough challenge. We need more players. Come to GoM, and enjoy your stay!

Don’t forget the off hand focus sandwhichmancer only weapon Rampager Aged Pepper Jack Wheel of the Rampager.

OH # 4 PBAOE 900 range HeartBurner. Causes burning and poison for 30 seconds. Can be spammed like Heart Seeker. Countered by new conditions cleansing skill Tums.
OH # 5 Ground targeted AOE similar to Necros Marks. Overwhelming pepper jack breath. Cause fear on target that only targets players teammates. Stacks in duration based on players effected. Would work like a Necros fear but be a PBAOE fear that is persistent on the player who trigger the Mark. Only effects friendly players. The more players who are effected the l get the duration stacks.

Be a perfect Zerg breaker. Guard rushes in, triggers mark, then starts fearing his own team away from him. His teammates cause other teammates to fear even more players away. One Mark + 50 player Zerg= 150s fear duration. Countered by me condition cleanser Fresh Mint Flavored Gum.

New conditions cleanser can only be purchased badges.