Guild Wars 2

Who cares about someone holding a point with whatever skill and contributing to PPT when the outcome of WvW matchups is decided by PlayervsDoor when everyone sleeps or is at work.

New objectives look nice, lake was useless. Regardless however nice they are they are a mere cherry on the otherwise rotting cake of WvW. Questions that should have been answered from the get go still linger:

- How will the WvW mode encourage PvP instead of Player versus Door/Structure?
- What will stop people from bandwagoning to servers that are likely winners?
- How will the game be playable during large scale encounters and lag be prevented?

Questions that most RvR/WvW games so far has failed to address and Guild Wars is unfortunately no exception and only think that keeps it alive is its’ dynamic combat.

Unless other dramatic changes are coming to the WvW point system together with this, the best WvW servers will be those that PvDoor all objectives while others sleep and play Sim(Siege)Wars 2 upgrading all their objectives to t3 and siegeing them with dozens of arrowcarts and few trebs inside. This is how the wvw point system always worked. Only this time, the servers will get rewarded with epic lootz and achievements for their heroic PvP (not) effort. I guess they will deserve them for all those sleepless nights spent defeating doors and the boils on their bottoms from all the sitting on arrow carts and trebuchets.

I think I prefer the current system where the ‘reward’ for such activities on the EU ladder is a higher probability of facing Vizunah Square.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Sabull.5670:

RG, a guild who actively tell pugs of any quality to move to the zone commander and actively portals to keeps and warcamp to loose them. So a mega zerg doesn’t get created. Guild who always joins outmanned zones when possible for the same reason.
Everyone has their blob moments. But saying RG “mega zerg24/7”, you really have no idea what is a mega zerg or seen RG. Dam the kills could have been faceroll idd with a 60man zone blob 24/7.

Capping stuff -> action happens as a result usually. So I guess we do care about the “mechanics of wvw”, or atleast the result of it.

AndrewSX.3794:

I don’t think you’ve ever played with or against RG.

You guys are right, I’ve only been playing on blackgate since day 1. I have never seen RG or their very small area of focus damage in front of their zerg ball. I have never walked through the side/back of their zerg and taken 0 damage. End sarcasm.

Are you going to deny that red guard only cares about fights? You guys have said it before. And yes, I know you don’t care about your pugs. I could always tell when I would pull one RG member off the back and kill it, then see your full zerg turn around to res him. Noble to be sure and quite understandable, but the priorities are obvious, won’t see them turn around to pick up randoms.

You can tell the pugs what you like, but it doesn’t take a genius to be able to follow an untagged or mobile commander. “Mega-Zerg” maybe not, you’re right in that regard. But RG does ball up in high numbers and zerg around the map nonetheless.

I congratulate you again, but my previous comments stands. It will have a lot more meaning for the people who get it and care for their camps, towers, keeps, and dolyaks. WvW isn’t Team Deathmatch. Don’t get so upset, it’s just a statement.

The real question here is why would anyone care about the WvW mechanics:

Trebs, boring, check
Arrow carts, boring, check
Being stationary and getting stuff upgraded, boring, check
Escorting dolyaks, boring, check
Winning being about coverage and nightcapping rather than skill, boring, check
0 rewards or “e-fame” due to winning matchup due to above, boring, check

Kills and fun are the thing to go for, because unfortunately the WvW mechanics are so meh. But I agree with you, if you roam as a solo or in a 5-man you won’t get kills nowhere as fast. However him being a guild leader, clearly he has better stuff to do than solo roam.

Azure.8412:

BlackDevil.9268:

covenn.7165:

We were missing a couple of our melee but it wasn’t excuse worthy. From fighting them, they really aren’t doing anything much different than us… they just did it better. Simply put, we got out played.

Uhm… ? I’m amazed how easy some fights were then if we did exactly the same.

Anyway, thanks for the gvg TW. Had some fun stalking your eles

And people say TW is disrespectful.. RG gotta learn some class!

First of all, thanks TW for the GvG, it was fun and I think I got downed more than in any other GvG thanks to your rifle warrior o/.

Trolling aside, the setups were different, if not in terms of classes then it terms of specs for sure, a lot of focus on rezing from TW that we did not have. We certainly also didn’t have a rifle warrior ^^. Same went for the playstyle, both groups tried to achieve something different with their movement. The US moving in a circle meta while nuking with ranged and trying to lure enemy to go over stacked AoE certainly isn’t something we ever used or that would be regularly used in EU GvG’s.

I think TW would be pleasantly surprised if they transferred to EU at how much higher the competition level is there in GvG’s. They were not pushovers but we certainly had GvG’s in Europe where we lost rounds and more pressure was put on us (as a group, not me) by guilds that are nowhere near their US status/ranking. I am sure they would have a lot of good and close matches there, that is if they wouldn’t have delay due to the server locations. For me personally US servers are borderline unplayable at some hours due to warping lag. Using VPN is a must and even then the connection still suffers.

Miyu.8137:

Pryda.8257:

iorlas.6721:

Pryda.8257:

iorlas.6721:

Pryda.8257:

Okaishi.8320:

Yeah, and it’s ironic how RG decides to golem rush our garrison because why the hell not. The siege might actually drag on for a few minutes otherwise, and you need all the points you can get right?

If you use 15 AC don’t expect anything but golems.

15 AC’s?? wtf you talking about?we never had the time or the supplies to build that many.

4 or 5 north inner on lord room, 3 west inner, one or two on the wall close to water inner, one on oil, one on roof + some you had between outer/inner watergate that made us change to SE gate.

You golum rushed before the ac’s went up NOT because they were all ready built don’t talk so much crap,even then there was nothing like 15.

Thank god we got them on stream

Anyway, no need to be such a crybaby cause you lost your garrison man.

We actually didn’t lose it, you wiped in lord’s room. But good you got it on stream.

I don’t mean this as an insult or an kitten claim but I don’t remember that we wiped there on reset. Maybe u r talking about a different AR raid.

Find the wipe for me:

http://www.twitch.tv/chemsorly/b/416875584

Kebab.4013:

So nearing primetime and 585 ppt.

And with a bit of luck, same matchup next week!

There’s no question that the randomness of the roll is way too much and should be decreased so that maximum range is like 150 difference in ranking. There are huge blowouts every week in some matchup and it isn’t fun for any of the servers involved.

That is unless they somehow improve the outmanned mechanic to give something useful except no repair costs.

We are not bragging about it, we did it because it was the only way to get some action, and there is not much else to do tbfh, we even completed the jumping puzzle as a guild for the first time in WvW because of the lack of fights for our scale. If we could choose we would have played this reset on Underworld or Fort Ranik against Augury Rock, it would have been much more entertaining.

Also we golem rushed garrison twice or maybe even three times so if people stopped confusing them, that would be helpful. Either way I see nothing wrong about golem rushing + Underworld had more on map than Fort Ranik so they were the more logical target.

Nothing to do except attack keeps and hope someone turns up to defend with when you have a group of 25-30 in this tier. Most organised groups are like 5-10 ppl here. Worst random roll ever. Don’t think we can take this for 7 days.

Morgenes.6985:

Maartac.9457:

Thanks 4 the nice fights !
uncensored with all wipes and some nice victories
http://de.twitch.tv/maartac/b/413001359

CE,ADAC and fX … we had a lot of fun

Yeah we had a lot of fun against RG yesterday and found out, that we still have to learn much more

I was proposing to ask for a gvg against them so that we can learn some more, but most of us don’t want to do arranged “gvg”, because it’s always something else, when you have to adapt on the different situations when facing an enemy guild somewhere on the battlefield. (See situations at the gap of our spawntower, where none of us decided to attack, or at the bridge to ruins where we tried to lure each other (and RG finally wiped us).

Still hope to get such good fights against some Baruch guilds this week. Afaik we are on augury rock today, but I’m afraid Brewthal has to do the maplead today, so I guess we unfortunately will blob. (which is absolutely not my playstyle, but if you don’t activate your com your still getting all the randoms, because there is no other out there)

Indeed, that’s what GvG is about, taking away the surprise factor, the terrain usage to a large extent, and also additional numbers and siege. In normal WvW there will almost always be more terrain to use, and one side or the other will get a better engagement and/or have more people. It’s fun in a lot of ways, but roaming is great too and certainly better in terms of terrain and engagement variety.

And yes, you generally need another commander on the map in order not to blob, or you need to be on a very respectful server where people are not afraid to go out there solo or in small groups and do their own thing. Augury Rock has been amazing for us in this aspect. In terms of randoms following us when we don’t want them to, Seafarer’s Rest was much worse (on the other hand we could just ask for a commander on the server website to come, and if queues weren’t terrible we would be helped out quite fast which was amazing). I guess Abbadon’s Mouth isn’t the best server for having tonnes of commanders or highly independent players.

sostronk.8167:

Euro servers seem a bit messed up compared to NA. I don’t know how 22nd ranked Ring of Fire could be running 400k mid week against a 26th and 27th ranked server. Also I think the 4th tier matchup between Piken, Gunnars and riverside is a bit of a flaw in the system. I don’t think the current system should allow for 8th ranked to be in the same tier as a 20th ranked server.

The worst of NA is probably the Tier 3 matchup between Dragonbrand, Maguuma and Stormbluff. But that matchup is still a lot more reasonable than what I am seeing from EU and the rankings don’t seem too far apart (IMO).

Perhaps Anet need to take a look at EU and the current rating system and maybe tweak it so we aren’t seeing an 8th ranked server against a 20th rank because that’s just too much right now.

There’s also Arborstone, Nr. 25 versus Gandara Nr. 13. I guess the randomization is a bit too much :p.

kursk.4890:

hatred that abaddon? they are bad in the open, but are competing well, their virtues are the number and the defense (and use it to perfection), Baruch and augury have 3-4 very good guilds, and abaddon can still win …

applause for abaddon guys, a lot of merit.

Sorry for my english.

You forget that most of the guilds on Baruch and Augury mostly don’t play the campaign that hard. Sure they will take a few objectives here and there and give the servers a good population presence, but their aim in the game isn’t to collect as much points as possible. If it was you would see a very different playstyle from them, possibly a lot more blobbing and a lot more of offpeak points capping and sieging. Contrary to that, most people on Abbadon play for points exclusively, always a few people sitting on siege in every objective etc. So the presence of guilds on the other 2 servers doesn’t affect the matchup all that much.

Though I will admit I didn’t expect Abbadon to do as well as they do on score, I expected Baruch to outnightcap them and Augury to outdaycap them which didn’t happen as much as I expected. I guess the laurels go to the arrow cart heroes o7.

I still think Baruch will take this one because of their shifted primetime, that allows them to nightcap supereffectively.

Hahaha , Baruch Bucht!

Give me German game version for more lolz

Troma.3250:

Dear Arenanet,

I’m the leader of Grand Cross, the alliance of Vizunah WvW since day one. I, we put many many hours to make this server the more efficient possible. We created a big community with thousand of passionate people, sometimes playing 15h in a day to keep us with a good score. Our organization and dedication had a big impact on thousand of your customers: we wanted them to have fun and pleasure in your WvW mode, and to make a better community for all.

I had stop 1 month, and i came back for the last week before change, and to fight Jade Sea – Elona. I made again a big call to arm to all Vizunians for the very last time (http://www.grandcross.fr/leve-toi-une-derniere-fois-legendaire-vizunah/) and we managed to win this week again, it was a symbol for us to win a last time for sure before your change. But at the cost of many hours of work.

And this morning, i see you won’t change it this week? is it sure? because i have to say i’m very, very sad if it’s not this week. I think, like when you put free transfert on SFR, you do not realize how your words or decisions can damage a whole server. You do not realize what people create around your WvW, sometimes even irl time sacrifices, and i think you do not realize the disappointment it can be for us.

Players, post here if you agree.

Best Regards,

Grand Crusader Troma

I understand you are disappointed in that ArenaNet has not delivered what they promised. However, I don’t quite understand how that will negatively impact your gameplay. The 3 servers in EU tier 1 at the moment are the best point servers in the ladder, and you will face the most challenge playing against them. If anything the new system would probably make your next matchup worse. Personally I am happy the new system is coming, but I am also happy I get to play Piken Square and Baruch Bay again next week, because I believe it’s the best matchup for the gameplay I want to have that may get broken up.

Yes, the new fluidity of server matchups and the ranking may incentivize people to play for points again and try and beat servers in the long run. However, in the short run of one weekly reset I don’t really see you missing out on anything, in fact it may be more fun for you.

Otherwise I agree with you that WvW needs more love, the new matchup system is one of the first steps forward. Having real rewards (loot, cosmetic skins, WXP, anything)for winning a matchup, but also for being 2nd or scoring a certain amount of points, etc. and trying to decrease skill delay (by discouraging zerging or just fixing it) are the next few steps forward.

Still so many people that don’t understand that a slab of meat or spike comes from a wooden chest with 5 supply from a dolyak…..

Yoke.4671:

You sound so blasé about it, So I have to assume other guilds do this and you are not the only one. So colour me outa the loop.
But got dam is recruiting on your Ex-Server reek of no respect. One of the slimiest things a guild can do tbh.

As far as I know Scnd isn’t really focusing on playing for points, therefore you don’t really have to care about them recruiting on any server. If anyone from Piken joins them it probably won’t be a person who fights for the ‘server’ so don’t worry you are not losing your realm warriors.

I guess that even in this game where there is no reward for winning the weekly matchup there will be ‘server warriors’, not only is there no reward there is also no pride in winning as it is a result of coverage, blobbing and PvD. I guess there still will be people who don’t understand that for some there is no point in fighting for server/realm even though there is 0 reward for it.

Dawdler.8521:

Dont forget its also something that quickly spreads rumours about “spies” listening on the mapchat, causing complete loss of respect for such enemy guilds.

Being able to guest in LA and advertise your guild is miles away from actually still having people on the server. Anyone who is capable of using logic should be able to see that.

Seriously, if a guild leaves your server, because of way too much queues, you should thank them for helping you, not blame them. They are using their gold to improve theirs and yours game experience by reducing queues on one server and giving you someone to fight on another. Nothing wrong about that.

Interrupting a GvG is bad mannered, the people who do it get nothing out of it, but the satisfaction of annoying other players, and they usually get killed trying to do it.

The interrupts and 100’s of spectators who stand there making culling / slight delays worse are the reason GvG’s do not get announced, it is not the other way around. If there were no GvG interrupts and unnecessary spectating (there are usually streams/videos) every GvG would be announced. Saying that you interrupted because the GvG was not announced is like the ultimate nonsense. Think why it wasn’t announced? Yes, expected interruptions/adding.

Riverside PvE masters are farming karma and XP in T4 again, they are doing it so hard that they could come up again and get farmed for a week when they can’t PvE in T3. It looks like most people on AR including us don’t want to get a little bit bored for a week again in T4, so people are making an effort to stay in this tier.

Jomg.9061:

Don’t you guys on sfr have a community forum ? We don’t really care about you’re TS arguments.

Anyway, FYI, Every french server, Vs and Js included, heavily rely on teamspeak to get organized, any Pick up zerg you might fight have most of it’s people on a community TS, and that’s a great strength.

And yes,throught TS, we have every BL able to talk to each other, and every raid within a bl can do the same.
Most of time, if we don’t have intel, it’s because we don’t have anyone scouting or so, but once we have the intel everyone is aware of it very quick.

I thought by now every server worked like that but since SFR used to only rely on guilds i guess you still have work to do on this.

SFR always worked like that, however it had an influx of new people with free transfers that didn’t know that there was a forum or teamspeak or did not want to use them. On one memorable evening in T1 after free transfers SFR homezone was ticking at +5 and queued and nobody from the people on the website or TS (the people who took the server to T1) knew what was going on there because none of them were able to get into the zone. Eventually about 5 people from one guild got in and tried to organize the zone, but it was total Benny Hill, from what I heard.

The server didn’t win T1 5 times in a row solely by the effort of guilds. Sure the guilds played a part, but being able to form a strong organized PuG group from guilded and unguilded people who currently weren’t a part of a guild raid was a strong asset of the server. The free transfers meant an influx of players who didn’t know or didn’t want to take part in these things and who made the zones queued for the players who knew and did want to, which resulted in some people leaving. From what I see, the people who remained on the server managed to turn these players to work for the server and in turn these players eventually co-operated into again having decent PuG groups. Though as can be seen some drama still remains, it’s still quite an amazing effort and achievement by them.

The same thing happened to Blacktide and look where that server is now.

Caliban.3176:

Devitz.2136:

votf are you ever running in less than 40? Fighting you creates massive skill delays even tho you’re almost alone. Most of Piken’s run 20-25-30max as far as I’m concerned

40? We usually run at least 75, and we only have warriors, guardians and necro’s. We have some thief alts to place traps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4P-kTBzE0

Brb buying some traps.

VotF come from tier 1 you basically had to have around the numbers they have now to play there. It’s not like this tier doesn’t have its own blobs they can fight with those numbers. It all depends if the metagame is about blobs or guild. If it’s about guilds all running 20-25, sure everyone can run that number. If there are 60-70+ blobs running around zones, guilds might need that 30-35 to deal with that. But, yeah they will have a hard time finding a pure guild raid that fields similar numbers like they do.

Yaro.3251:

Meesor.7243:

And there is no blobbing or skill lag there huh? Good one.

I didn’t say that. It’s not black and white, you know.

Ofc there is blobbing and skill lag, but largest blob I met in t3-t4 was 70 people, while I was meeting 100 blobs in t1 on a daily basis. Furthermore most guild in t3-t4 make an effort (sometimes they fail) to not blob. While the mantra in the T1 I left from both Desolation and Vizunah was “We gotta blob to win the matchup”.

So yes, all the issues that existed in T1 still exist in lower tiers, however to a much lower extent. Including blobbing and skill lag (To me they are almost the same thing as one causes the other)

And if you arent in one of the many that ran away because of losing to viz, then why are you arguing about it with me? GH isn’t the only guild on this forum.

It should have been clear from my first or second post. But I can rephrase it: You was not specific.
If you have something against specific players/guilds, go ahead and address them directly. Though I suppose that would be borderline against forum CoC.

Many guilds left T1 each had it’s different reasons. First of all the skill delay and lag due to what the game was like took a heavy toll on the rosters of most guilds. This meant that many national guilds had to transfer to servers that have an active community that speaks their language in order to rebuild and recruit again. Some just didn’t want to play within an environment where so much blobbing and skill lag was present, others just wanted to play the game with less queues. Others left simply because other guilds left so all they had left to fight on an average night were arrow carts.

The picture of why each different guild from either SFR or Desolation left this tier or quit the game is complex, it’s not as simple as Vizunah are winning, we leave. In fact like 1/2 guilds that left from SFR actually left before the SFR winning streak ended. But at the end of the day, in-game mechanics like queuing, skill-lag and small maps that encourage blobbing are the root cause.

It depends on your interpretation of causality here, but I would argue that guilds leaving caused the matchup to be imbalanced, not that the matchup imbalance caused the guilds to leave. Personally I am surprised more Vizunah guilds haven’t given up on the game/this matchup given what it must have been like for them in the last few weeks …. insane queues and few people to fight, little hope for matchup change …

Anyway onwards we go to page 100!

Rich.1528:

Danielle.3152:

You think doing 10-15v25 is stupid, but you’re happy to play 35-50v25.

Seriously? What makes you think that? Or just to say?
Empyre told obvious thing, that’s why i answered in this manner; we often fight 12-15 vs more.

To be honest we don’t often meet on the field due to time zone differences, but I still remember the time VoTF were running 25-30 guys in T1. We came into zone with 20 and rolled out saw like 10-15GH near middle island you ran back towards spawn regrouped with VoTF and came back specifically only to kill us. Must have been Vizunah borderland because the spawns were next to each other. Pretty much for several evenings one or two parties of GH followed VoTF despite the fact that their guild already had more on their own than we did.

Now, I don’t mean to suggest you never roam solo, because I saw your guild roaming on it’s own when I was solo roaming many times during afternoons. Or to imply that joining a different raid with 5-10 guys who are left when it’s getting outside your primetime and you don’t have the numbers is the incorrect move. However, just like Empyre I find it ironic that one of your members points out that BuLL who tbfh blobbed like hell in T1 and now run 90% of the time or more as guild only are blobbing in this tier. Especially coming from a guild that is happy to join other raids when outside their primetime, I would expect more … perspective? … on the Spanish guilds playing outside their primetime that is before 01:00 Moscow time. That’s where my response is coming from and what my post was originally about.

I wish you gl in this tier, and I hope I will be proven wrong about your guild and correct about BuLL in game.

Rich.1528:

Empyre.2531:

Even at 15 you can run alone.

Thank you for your valuable advise

You think doing 10-15v25 is stupid, but you’re happy to play 35-50v25. Fine go ahead with it I prefer that to rolling you with superior numbers, but don’t expect us to respect you for just reversing the imbalance the other way around when you are perfectly capable of wiping us with even numbers.

JoiLink.5084:

There was one question: on Deso Bull ran themselves and the oche is not bad. Why did you become the BB, often combined with other guilds?

From my experience BuLL are running much more on their own in this tier than in T1. Kudos to them for that. If you think otherwise it just shows how your counting is biased towards the server you are currently on. Red coulour looks larger than green or yellow. It seems getting away from the points game helped that guild a lot. I wish it would do the same for yours.

2 days left to make this thread 100 pages, gogogo!

Also, maybe premature congratulations to SFR on dropping a tier, feel bad for leaving people who are loyal to the server to deal with GLICKO induced imbalance.

Troma.3250:

Ahhh, quoted for truth ! someone who remember the real situation, thank’s anyway you just make an error: our guild didnt left at all, we builded all this with them. In fact, Grand Cross builded the “pug” support to make all of us stronger ! =)

I don’t think anyone ever doubted that Vizunah is the strongest PuG based server with a good guild core. The problem for Vizunah seeking similar opponents (not like SFR or Blacktide) is that generally forming a server like Vizunah is the exact opposite of what organized guilds want to do in this game.

tita.6358:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82621-na-servers-looking-for-eu-players/#entry2198593

oh! that one is new! vizunah square is not only full of canadians. we are a russian server too!
wanted to share

The bs about double teaming, Canadians and other nonsense that goes on is quite remarkable. Because I have a flexible schedule and there was PvP to be had I played off-peak several times and most of the time all it was like 25-30 Viz guys during late night-morning which is quite reasonable a population of people who do work shifts that would allow them to play in this time. People who make claims about Canadians and 100 man zergs at 4 AM have probably never played at that time or were unfortunate enough to hit an organized push night, which happened like once per week at maximum from Viz.

Well I see both sides complaining about blobs, that’s a good thing because it means neither side wants the blobs to be there. There will always be guilds that run with commander tag and “fight for the realm”, it’s their own detriment because it’s obvious to everyone including them, that they fights they win are not just by their own effort, but also with the aid of some little helpers.

The way I understood the comment about VII and HoB was that he didn’t care(mind) because it was only 30 ppl together and therefore not a real blob. I would appreciate if VII blobbed more to form 25-30 ppl groups in situations where the enemy don’t have 10-15 mans on the map, so that I don’t have to feel bad about killing them with 2x their numbers.

Qwixx.5923:

Danielle.3152:

Air.3154:

I wonder tough, is there ANY server out there that can even put up with vizunah? Props to them for handling pugs the awesome way they do, but…as it is now, they’re the most annoying and boring server to play against.
No offence, but it is like that, i don’t see anyone that could have fun with 24/7 presence zergfest roaming around. It’s tiring and impossible to handle. Imo obviously

There is no server atm that can match up to Vizunah Square, it takes a lot of effort to create the coverage and presence on a ‘superserver’ to beat Vizunah and the reward for the people who do it is lots of sieging, skill lag in fighting against blobs and having to play at ridiculous times. The only other good thing there is, is the 24/7 action at basically any time and denying Vizunah the golden medal pixel they are so used to.

I don’t foresee Vizunah getting challenged anywhere in the near future, the only things that could make their matchup close in the future would be:

1) Elona becoming more stacked and organised
2) Some of the Viz core transferring to Jade Sea to try and defeat what they have built.
3) Action in lower tiers dries up completely, so the people looking for fights have to go against a very highly populated server like Vizunah to find enemies.
4) A new superserver might arise again over time for whatever reason.
5) Some huge US guilds decide they want to play PvDoor in EU.

6) Create a stable community on a server from SFR/Deso??.

I can’t speak for Deso, but SFR never had the PuG population as a Medium server to be able to compete on points with a server like Vizunah, even if they would form a stable community including PuG groups. Because I like to play late night and afternoons I often joined PuGs on SFR before free transfers, and for sure the community was fairly stable before them and the PuGs were co-ordinating with other raids on the map, but they never had the numbers without members from the WvW oriented guilds that left.

Desolation was for the most part from my perspective carried by IRON and mostly IRON commanders for large amounts of time and they are gone. The matter of fact is you don’t know where these 2 servers would be right now if the ratings worked properly. SFR still retains a lot of the Russian guilds and a few primetime guilds so I believe they could score a lot more points if they wanted to stay in T1 and will definitely not drop beyond T2 if they do not want to, but I guess they think there is no point trying without a night crew and a very strong primetime, and that other servers could give Vizunah better competition. I definitely don’t think that SFR will go into a freefall like Blacktide. But, Desolation very well might, because for most part I think almost all the guilds I knew from there are gone, so they have to be carried by PuG entirely which is very hard.

And yes, in a month or two maybe SFR will maybe become a superserver again because it’s easy to transfer to (medium population) and will have a lack of PuG population that would block guilds playing. Either SFR or Piken, or maybe neither because guilds won’t be interested in creating superservers.

Angelyne.2936:

You guys zerg exatly the same way, earlier you admit it, better will be your future. VS use 2 or 3 separate group with map commander that coordinate them and 2 or 3 field commanders that pack ppl around them. most of the time we fight against a big blob that can’t do anything against multiple way impact like we do.

You loose because you are unable to coordinate a whole map forces, you play with guild group, that cant handle multiple guild groups, then you pack in a massive blob, unefficient too because you lack of cordination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesigps4Cwo

A lot of the video is you with double commander running together with 45-60 people from the SAME direction killing SMALLER groups. At other points it’s guild ‘spearheaded’ PuGgroups killing pure PuG groups while running from different direction. Only fight that looked good was in Dredge tunnels.

Congratulations on your achievement I guess, the fact that you made a video about it, with that content posting what you did, goes to show that you must be playing with pink goggles. Also you do not take a single objective for the duration of the video, so you are basically blobbing for the sake of it, taking the enemy on with 1.5-2x their numbers just to win a fight. Yes even if you hit an enemy from different sides those 2 commanders were basically holding hands running next to each other for a vast majority of the time and that is blobbing.

Air.3154:

I wonder tough, is there ANY server out there that can even put up with vizunah? Props to them for handling pugs the awesome way they do, but…as it is now, they’re the most annoying and boring server to play against.
No offence, but it is like that, i don’t see anyone that could have fun with 24/7 presence zergfest roaming around. It’s tiring and impossible to handle. Imo obviously

There is no server atm that can match up to Vizunah Square, it takes a lot of effort to create the coverage and presence on a ‘superserver’ to beat Vizunah and the reward for the people who do it is lots of sieging, skill lag in fighting against blobs and having to play at ridiculous times. The only other good thing there is, is the 24/7 action at basically any time and denying Vizunah the golden medal pixel they are so used to.

I don’t foresee Vizunah getting challenged anywhere in the near future, the only things that could make their matchup close in the future would be:

1) Elona becoming more stacked and organised
2) Some of the Viz core transferring to Jade Sea to try and defeat what they have built.
3) Action in lower tiers dries up completely, so the people looking for fights have to go against a very highly populated server like Vizunah to find enemies.
4) A new superserver might arise again over time for whatever reason.
5) Some huge US guilds decide they want to play PvDoor in EU.

Very easy, make the population cap for each map 1/2 of what it is and just copy paste all the maps twice and reduce points from each structure by 1/2. Given that borderlands are just a copy of each other a bit more of copy pasting would help the game greatly.

Anadora.1893:

“Tour de Force” Last Round.
War Legend, buoyed by its 3 victories versus ZDs, GoD and IRON, will be honored with the next match against the French guild Option (SFR server), to be played on May, 1st, 21h00

We invite you to watch this head-to-head event on our Stream : ‘http://fr.twitch.tv/warlegend’

Nice, will watch.

2. You get more loot
3. You can see the health and boons/conditions of people in your party
4. You can react more easily to health changes/boons/conditions on your party or people being downed in your party

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Although I dont mind people doing GvG, I hope with Custom Arenas coming soon that all GvG will go there and free up WvW spots for people who will do WvW.

If is a shame Anet have not added GvG yet and we’re having to take up spots in WvW to do it.

Custom Arena’s will be for arranged duels / tPvP, MAYBE they will allow 8v8 but hardly anything above that. That’s at least how I am reading it. Any GvG arranged mode is nowhere near in foreseeable future.

KinkyWarrior.1879:

GvG with RG ruined by silleh commander on AR, patch update and disconnects. I hope that the next time Gandara meets you we can GvG you then RG. Hope to see you guys out in the field. o7

Yep it has become standard now for someone to try and add-on. I guess we need to find a new spot people don’t know about. I just hope the haters/WvW purists on AR would realise we will play WvW faster and end GvG sooner if they don’t interrupt.

Hopefully we can GvG you in the future, smaller guilds are always more interesting, because we usually outnumber them during normal WvW because we run 25-30 during primetime. It also means tonnes of ppl would have to afk if we did smaller arranged fights like 10v10 or 15v15 that I would like to do a lot.

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

Danielle.3152:

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

Aneu.1748:

Aseroth.4591:

I totally agree 100% that Reinforced gates/walls NEED to lose HP and defence, A LOT. Also, i really like the ideas that u stated and think it would make WvW a lot more interesting, since it’s gonna be more about fighting, than sitting in a reinforced tower using arrowcarts for hours and hours.

This is WvW atm, 12 arrow-carts facing a single door, fun isnt it

Thanks for your contribution.

This defensive situation, should have a correct approach, different from the one you suggest (rams or golems), the siege must be cleared by a treb, including before he starts siege, the commander must clear the AC in the wall, in the process he will notice that is group getting too much damage, this indicates the existence of other siege, then he can order the building of a treb or trebs (don’t waste any supplies before you know the enemy defenses.)

If I want something I must be prepared to pay the price, make the enemy waste provisions, cut them the provisions, and be prepared to not succeed the 1st time, and don’t see this as a defeat, but like one step to victory.

There are so many situations in game that aren’t correctly done. Siege it’s a major one, defensive or offensive.

Its a funny situation yes. Hard but funny.

Let’s face it using a trebuchet is one of the most boring activities one has ever done in a game. Then you get the defensive counter trebuchet to bombard the offensive trebuchet and the game becomes a total trebuchet snoozefest.

Yes for me the siege is one of the funniest parts of the game, try to find the best place, establish a defensive perimeter for your offensive siege, this is all pure WWW, the “other thing” between guilds isn’t not part of it, it should be another chapter of the game, and I think it will be a success.

PS: I’m keeping the promise to myself to not discuss the “other thing” here in WWW forum

There is no need to discuss the what you call the “other thing” here. I was on about sieging. I do not mind establishing defensive/offensive perimeters nor do I mind the strategies and counter-strategies used in sieging. I think they can be creative and the meta can to an extent be interesting.

My problem is that AFTER the proper siege pieces are placed the game stagnates. With people running supply correctly or a fully stocked keep it could take up to 4 hours of nothing but constant supply running building trebuchet’s and firing them to take down an enemy keep wall. During this time if the enemy doesn’t come out to stop the supply runs or only flips the camps for the immune buff and leaves them there are no fights, no new strategy or siege placements. You are just waiting for what has already been placed to take effect. Yes, being creative about offensive siege placement and creating good strategic defense perimeters and counter-siege can be good, but do you honestly think that the actual execution of the process AFTER all the pieces are in place should not be faster? IE.: does someone rly have to go and have a macro to press 2 on a trebuchet or actually sit there for hours and press it? I think the actual game experience of that, not the overall strategy involved is awful and not fun.

Trashbob.2743:

ECL vs RG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6N0Jb817Qg
we died with honor :P

Nice video, epic roleplay, I love the spirit! I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again, the overall score doesn’t always reflect how close some of the fights were. It certainly felt like we were pressured most of the time and it was never easy to win a fight. Interesting tactic with the bunker engi, to keep enemy in combat and bait an attack.

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268:

Aneu.1748:

Aseroth.4591:

I totally agree 100% that Reinforced gates/walls NEED to lose HP and defence, A LOT. Also, i really like the ideas that u stated and think it would make WvW a lot more interesting, since it’s gonna be more about fighting, than sitting in a reinforced tower using arrowcarts for hours and hours.

This is WvW atm, 12 arrow-carts facing a single door, fun isnt it

Thanks for your contribution.

This defensive situation, should have a correct approach, different from the one you suggest (rams or golems), the siege must be cleared by a treb, including before he starts siege, the commander must clear the AC in the wall, in the process he will notice that is group getting too much damage, this indicates the existence of other siege, then he can order the building of a treb or trebs (don’t waste any supplies before you know the enemy defenses.)

If I want something I must be prepared to pay the price, make the enemy waste provisions, cut them the provisions, and be prepared to not succeed the 1st time, and don’t see this as a defeat, but like one step to victory.

There are so many situations in game that aren’t correctly done. Siege it’s a major one, defensive or offensive.

Its a funny situation yes. Hard but funny.

Let’s face it using a trebuchet is one of the most boring activities one has ever done in a game. Then you get the defensive counter trebuchet to bombard the offensive trebuchet and the game becomes a total trebuchet snoozefest.

Open PvP worlds in including WvW are always ridiculously hard to get right. Not one game has so far been successful at doing so. With some of what Aneu proposes and further changes to WvW the mode could be so much more fun. And possibly ArenaNet could create the first truly successful open PvP mode. That and make maps slightly larger and with more objectives or having more maps overall would help an awful lot.

WvW should be a PvP area where groups of ALL sizes from 5-25 as well as solo roamers can go and roam and find somewhat even fights which would be forced by the structure of the objectives. The proposed changes would go a long way to help this.

Then there should also be instanced PvP including duelling 1v1, tPvP that we already have with 5v5, but also hopefully including larger team fights with 8v8, 10v10, 15v15, 20v20, 25v25.

Hopefully ArenaNet recognizes that WvW for now, functions as the place where these fights should occur spontaneously and will make their best effort to prevent it from becoming a permanent zerg/siege fest.

Leorcyn.1063:

Danielle.3152:

…

English is not my first language, so some things might have come out the wrong way, my apologies.
I didn’t want to use RG as “RG only”, it was just an example of guilds with the similar mindset. I understand what you are looking for and I realize that you think t1 can’t offer what you’re looking for.
Even tho some might argue that guilds like WL or LNM (guilds I personally put in the same category as yours : highly skilled, looking for more than just points) are quite happy with VS and its 2hrs+ queues.
It’s sad for us on VS, because we liked a strong opposition better, but as it’s been said over and over, opposition on the long term comes with PUs, and you need something to help them structure. Sadly none of the other major EU forces took time to do so ; we’re now left alone with ourselves.

tl;dr The guilds may be similar but are different in several important details.

I think these guilds have a similar mindset, but not exactly the same. If RG is having a 20-30v20-30 close fight that is lasting for 7 minutes already and a friendly PuG commander/guild comes in and wipes the enemy in under 1 second we are mad, because what was an awesome fight is turned into something rather meaningless. RG is a very extreme example, but I think quite a few guilds out there feel the same way.

On the other hand WL/LNM try to co-operate with friendlies, using commander icon etcetera and do not mind an uneven victory and are even quite happy about it, if it means gains/victory for their server/realm. If possible they would probably ask the PuG commander to come and wipe the other group in 1s (during their normal play not GvG or whatever). Especially speaking about LNM or Edenae they are much more server/realm oriented than looking for even fights as I have played in several games against them and it has always been the case.

By this I am not saying that either way of playing the game is superior and everyone should play that way, it is a RvR or WvWvW game after all, so it’s natural that some people will play it (in a way as intended) and put their server/realm first. The game mode in itself is not about having balanced fights by definition whatsoever. Whether forming one large group of ppl and rolling with it everywhere is the most efficient way to achieve that and whether it should be that way is a discussion for a different place.

So I do not think the guilds are comparable in that way, RG-style running without commander tag, telling random friendlies following us to pls follow other commanders, having private voice chat, trying to drop friendlies who follow us despite us asking them not to by using multiple waypoints, after running through a door or around a corner, while other guilds actively try to gather them using the commander icon.

We were always much more fight oriented than server/realm oriented in any game we played, simply because we find it more enjoyable to play that way. Probably up to 75% of the guild saw attacking keeps/towers and sieging as dirty work or sacrifice that we have to make in order to play with SFR on T1 rather than something we would enjoy on its own. We played quite differently to how we would normally play when we played in T1, attacking objectives and sieging much more often. We basically tried to contribute to the server effort as much as possible while retaining our guild only play style. Just ask your fellow countrymen how we play on Augury Rock now, I’d imagine the ones that are realm/server oriented hate us for how we play the game there. For instance last week in T3 we tried not add on fights that our entry would make meaningless, which sometimes meant that people from our server wiped when they didn’t have to while we passed by them (other times they may have won, we just didn’t interfere). I think that is something quite unthinkable in T1.

I think, there are servers that play the same style as Vizunah out there (ER, JS), GLICKO is just fail though and doesn’t allow them to fight each other. But if a (MOSTLY) guild only based server comes to T1 only solution for guilds to sustain their playstyle while fighting Vizunah:

1/ Never have PuG transfers (Somewhat possible if the server has very high pop)
2/ Do lots of GvGs to avoid boredom (People care about points too much to do them)
3/ Try and drop Vizunah from T1 (Not possible – coverage & GLICKO)
4/ Leave server (Easy to grind some gold, but sad because you leave server community)
5/ Drop a tier (GLICKO ./lol)
6/ Be willing to blob it up (Why make a mostly guild only server if you want do that? If you do it ppl will eventually get bored and do 4/ instead)

Thank you for separating the NA and EU reset times Anet. My sleeping schedule has imporved, and we can play on resets against Russian opponents too <3.

Leorcyn.1063:

Empyre.2531:

Like I said before, the organised guilds lost control over what they created.

No, that’s where you are wrong.
Grand Cross never tried to control the server, it just gave the tools.
We can’t lose control of something we never had the control. And I’d say our way of doing things works much better than yours (even tho RG never tried to control a server, but it seems you’d lean towards that solution if you were to start something big).

The way it was handled on VS was a bolt of genius. Do not blame us for your inability to compete on the long run (I know it means nothing to you, there is no real competition in point scoring, bla, bla, bla…)

We cannot control a single person following our raid let alone a server or a matchup. That’s the way this game has been set up. Effectively we are a guild with 50 members, people should stop overestimating what those numbers can do to a server/matchup.

Yes points mean something to us, but we are not going to destroy our game experience to get them. We will certainly never try to contribute to creating a server based around insane queues during primetime and point scoring by guilds during offpeak times by PvDooring. That is what SFR would have become if a majority of the guilds stayed and tried to compete for the golden medal. That and the fact that the competition for the ‘golden medal’ basically cause blobbing by all sides, which in turn caused the skill lag making the game quite unenjoyable. So yes we care about points to some extent but not so far as to put more important things like gameplay above them. If one is not enjoying playing the game there is no point to continue playing regardless of how many points the server you are on has.

The fact that we contributed to something of an exodus that left T1 basically what it has been before we came → balanced primetime, mega off-peak cap by Vizunah, simply means that more people than just us did not enjoy playing in the way t1 was played. Imho t1 should be Elona, Jade Sea and Vizunah Square who have good PuG population and coverage. The guilds should aim to fight somewhere else because the points competition encourages a playstyle that most of them try to avoid. Those guilds will mostly be able to enjoy 15-30v15-50 fights while roaming the WvW lakes which is what they are looking for. In the meantime others can have 100v100v100 megaepic fights in T1 and the problems associated with those.

jdkL.4520:

Empyre.2531:

You should know that, as stupid as it sounds, the outnumbering side has less skilllag, but you’re on Viz so you didn’t have that too often.

Could you find me a proof or explanation ? Can I see it on stream ?
I’m curious about that.

Speaking from personal experience only it’s true in a 60v60 I have had some skill lag whilst in a 30v90 it’s quite insane. I guess you could try and look through some old videos or streams, the way we confirmed this was by experiencing it over and over again on both sides ie.: less lag when outnumbering, greater lag when outnumbered. We also asked out opponents how much lag they had in fights we outnumbered them to make sure.

If you can find any video of RG reset raid on SFR borderland vs. IRON from either side it should show that quite well, because it should have parts where SFR outnumbers Deso in a fight and vica versa as well as balanced fights for comparison.

I feel sorry for the current state of T1 for everyone involved in this matchup. GLICKO ratings are clearly broken. Furthermore the points system is faulty because it doesn’t really demonstrate a server’s strength (For instance in T3 Piken is insanely strong but stays there because many guilds there do not care about capping points whatsoever; that is they do not actively avoid taking points, but rather just mostly ignore them :p and look for good fights)

I hope Deso and SFR will be able to drop soon and that Vizunah finds a fellow point oriented server with excellent PuG coverage, and sieging golden medallists. (Yes that is intended as both a needle and a compliment). Let’s face it even with SFR at it’s prime before free transfers the matchup wasn’t exactly balanced because it was mostly organised guilds fighting Vizunah PuG groups which hardly makes for great fights. The scoreboard may have looked balanced to some extent because of great Vizunian strategy, their epic siege defences, commitment with suiciding for over 3 hours in a circle to retain a keep and the clever usage of certain in-game mechanics like huge circle, banner rez and leg specialists, but the battlefield did not look balanced imo.

The guilds from SFR and Desolation that left were looking to play a different game, which is centred more around roaming and fighting in groups of 15-30. For some time they had it against each other, but then they decided they could have more fun elsewhere without having to nightcap, queuing all the time and having skill delay. I wish something will be done about the GLICKO soon and gl & hf +./salute to all the SFR and Deso who keep fighting WITHOUT the guild support and coverage they used to have.

Edit: Also afaik ArenaNet has not announced any support for GvG whatsoever, custom arenas will just be custom tPvP for 5-8 players imho. I highly doubt there will be any solution for that in the near future and as such the only way to have guild oriented gameplay is to roam as a guild in WvW and look for like-minded opponents with similar numbers, and do some arranged GvG from time to time.

Pretty much the same as for solo roamers and small party roaming, sometimes you have a great time and fight even fights and sometimes you get overrun by a larger group.

VicisPatronus.5418:

Didn’t seafarers dominate for a few weeks recently? Maybe the reason why they’re not is because so many guilds are leaving?

What happened was that SFR decided to get together with a few guilds from Piken and try and compete with Vizunah in t1. The Piken transfers basically made the server what I would call ‘Full’ in terms of WvW population. There were up to 1h queues during primetime. This was basically very bad but tolerable as it was the cost of being able to fight with Vizunah.

Then some time ago, Arena Net decided to open free transfers to Medium servers. At that time SFR was (and still is) a Medium server. It was also the ranked N1 server in server rankings and won t1 4 times in a row when this happened. As you can imagine many people were lured to join such a server for free. I am not talking about guilds or dedicated players joining at this point, but the kind of players that want to try what wvw is like in t1, what the N1 server is like, be on a winning server etc.

This caused from 2h to 3h queues during primetime. This was unacceptable because playing the game is more important than winning a matchup, and it was a reason enough to leave. Furthermore the strategy SFR had that was based around primetime domination and partial coverage before and after it by guilds fell to pieces, because the guilds couldn’t play. They entered the game at basically 23:00pm and became the nightcap instead of playing the game at normal times. So the last week SFR won was due to the coverage from 23:00 to 02:00 and from 14:00 to 19:00, because guilds made the extra effort and played in the time windows when they didn’t have to queue instead, in hope that the queues would eventually decrease. They didn’t people became sick off the queues and left to lower populated servers.

The fact that some of these guild left due to queues triggered a domino effect. PvE players from Vizunah didn’t get as much resistance anymore and flooded the WvW lakes more than before for some easy XP and Karma to level up. More SFR ‘primetime’ guilds left because their strategy was unplayable with queues and few guilds. Without guilds on SFR to resist Vizunah the matchup balance went to hell. This lead to Desolation guilds beoming bored because they only had the Vizunah 100-man ball to fight and not actual guild opponents to fight. Hence the population solution of free transfers to medium servers effectively lead to a collapse of the balance in t1.

And no, if you are suggesting people should stay on a server where they HAD to queue for 2-3 hours in order to play DURING THEIR PRIMETIME then I disagree, they should leave. The fact that the queues have disappeared since due to the PuG snowballing effect and ppl not playing because their server isn’t winning doesn’t change that fact.

Jacklo.4230:

On another note, I’ve noticed a distinct lack of lag since we aren’t fighting Riverside?
Coincidence or stealth buff?

Skill lag generally occurs when many players accumulate on one spot, around 60+ from one server or more and fight another group. If it’s not present that’s an indicator that such groups aren’t around anymore.

For instance in T1 where Vizunah used to run a 100-man ball for a majority of the time, skill lag was a constant presence when fighting them. In 100v100v100 Garrison 3-ways not even the 1 skill fires. Ironically there is less skill lag in a 60v60 than in a 30 vs 90 for whatever reason. Anyway it’s good to be away from fights of that scale and especially because of the skill lag.

The reason we stalked KISS was because there wasn’t much going on from 00:00 to 02:00 UK time beside them during the late night. We hopped all the maps and took keep+tower and got no action, so we just tried to get some fights with them.

\o I hope we will come into this matchup again at some point in the future, against both Piken and Baruch. Still many GvG’s left to be played, and awesome fights to be had outside them at basically any hour of the day on almost any scale from roaming with anywhere from 15-30.

The new mentality and respect some guilds are showing each other is also fairly amazing. Keep it up ppl, it really makes the game 100% more enjoyable. Just remember you can still roam around the zone as guilds, not all fights need be near the middle south island (even though it is a convenient spot).

Centrix.4065:

It was a great run, eventhough we got our kitten handed to us lol. The internal discussions about what went wrong and how to improve went on for hours. Such a great learning experience after our 2nd gvg ever. I hope we’ll do these more often, since it’s a fun change from the daily wvw raids and a good learning experience.

Thanks for the fights guys, don’t focus overly on the score, some of the fights were quite close, especially very nice usage of portal in one of them. Also I congratulate you on your balls, some guilds have stalled/refused to do GvG us in t1 for 6 weeks, even with much more GvG experience than you had coming to this one.

If there is a guild or a smallscale team that wants to run by themselves and politely ask you not to follow them, then by following them you are simply griefing. Sure, it can happen coincidentially that you meet at some supply camp or points but that’s not what I am seeing. It’s not like you can’t do other things in the zone except grief your fellow players.

Saint Scarlet.2906:

We have never wanted to be a “tier” server, all we are looking for is good decent fights and minimal queue times. This is one of the reasons we have never recruited guilds to come to our server, we have several times in the past actively discouraged guilds from trying to come here. Our queue times on primetime are currently getting out of hand, the only things we lack is a full night cap guild(which we don’t want) as thats where most servers score the points against us is. I have always played at night and the only times we have ever had more than 20 people on at night is when RG and sIN turned our server into their pet project to get into T1, which the majority of guilds were against. We were never disorganised as a server, the current problem we are having is lots of migrating solo’s from T1 who haven’t a clue how to play(not to mention clogging up our queues) and we’re having to try and teach them.

If it’s the same people who took the free transfers to SFR going to Piken now, then I wish you good luck. At one point in that matchup we had home zone full and queued and it was ticking at +5 :P. There’s a lot of teaching and effort to be invested there.

To be honest t1 was quite fun for a while, because competing for points does to some extent generate good fights, unfortunately after culling patch both Desolation and Vizunah started running full zone blobs pretty much 100% of the time, skill lag became insane and so did the queues on SFR with free transfers so it became a total snoozefest except for one really fun GvG with VotF.

As for now I see no reason why Piken would want to go up a tier, tier 2 is Jade Sea and Elona who both play like small Vizunah (ie.: siege, blob & morning/night cap point oriented play). However if either SFR or Desolation or both drop to t2 going there might be an interesting alternative for them (Unless all the interesting guilds that Piken would probably want to fight leave those servers in the meantime).

Piken could be a t1 server easily, if they put any effort into getting points over fights during primetime whatsoever, the matter of fact is that they don’t. Because they do have both the primetime player quality and Russian cap that is required to amass points without resorting to insane morning/nightcapping.

Reann.9480:

Pryda.8257:

What happened to the small scale Piken?

You just didn’t notice the 10-20 man guild groups as other than speed bumps if you still run 25-30 guys like last time.

Qft this. I know how some of the fights against the better guilds in t1 felt at times when we were running 20-25 and they had 40. Also let us get another waypoint on some map. AR friendlies are really good at following us with just 1 :P. Also GvG’s fast! Looks like we might go down a tier this week.

Thanks for fights, much love to VoTF <3.

Slashpaf.9250:

Danielle.3152:

What do you expect people to do, stay on a server where when they log on during their normal playtime they have to queue for 2 hours instead due to bad decision making of Anet?

You asked people to join you on your war against Vizurats.
You bragged on this board on how it was a necessity for people all around the world to join you to cover every single timeshift to beat Vizunah.

Now that you’ve gathered a lot of guilds

[/quote]

Find me the space on the forums where we are crying for this it doesn’t exist and you are being delusional, we never ever asked for EVERYONE around the world to join the server. Gogo, quote.

What we wanted to do was create a competitive server centred around having wvw focused guilds cooperating together (it was a success before free transfers opened). And unless you haven’t noticed many of the guilds have left already because they cannot get into zones and play (OSC, ECL, NoE). To say NOW that we’ve gathered a lot of guilds is a joke, when the exact opposite has happened and several guilds have left.

The entire reason that you seem to misunderstand about the Piken transfers is that Piken guilds were split 1/2 and 1/2 some wanted to go down to t3 and others wanted to go up to t1. Because some thought t1 was all about blobbing and nightcap, while others thought the best guilds played there, which would be fun to play against. So those who wanted to play in t1 joined with likeminded ppl on SFR which allowed the rest of Piken to go down to t3 and everyone was happy, it wasn’t a bandwagon to the winner move. Anyway EU t1 has been a disappointment on a GvG competitive level so maybe those who wanted to go down to t3 were right, because all that has been going on here is blob for no reason and nightcap for the win most of the time.

We were never able to cover the nightshift by actual around the world guilds it was always SFR putting in the extra effort to minimize losses during night time.

If you’re taking anything about any rats seriously, then maybe you need to transfer to a roleplay server. The real reason Viz got focused by us was always because they were the strongest competitor for 1st place and because some ppl disliked your nightcapping playstyle.