Guild Wars 2

When an opponent rallies, it feels like I’ve been cheated out of a kill. When I rally, it feels unearned and unsatisfying.

Niim.9260:

DarthBenedict.3410:

dreztina.4820:

They do it, or at least should, because roaming is a far more interesting form of pvp than stale arena style battles which have zero unknown factors. In spvp, you know the exact where, what, when, who, how, and why before the timer even finishes counting down. In roaming, you don’t know any of that. Every fight is different. Takes a lot longer for roaming to get boring than spvp.

Thats not playing to win, thats playing to have interesting fights. Which is the opposite of being a competitive player.

Wouldn’t an interesting fight be one that is competitive? I fail to see why interesting precludes competitive.

It’s about motivation. Playing to win is competitive, playing in a way which is more fun but less likely to score points is not (Not saying one playstyle is better than the other).

Gator.7581:

KiefyReefer.8304:

omg I cant type im laughing so hard from these last 3 posts. Its over man, take everything and we still win by over 200k. You guys are to funny.

Edit: Straegen got there a sec before me, Im talking about the 3 posts above his.

And this is the kind of unnecessary chest thumping that is starting to give your server a bad name. You can’t just let those guys have a moment eh? And by we, you mean your night crew right? Or did you stay up with them and beat the doors and walls of empty keeps?

It’s always the people getting carried who make the loudest noise because winning is a new experience for them.

Definitely agreed on the AoE limit. For combo fields, limiting the amount of times a particular field can trigger combos could work. Also, rallying from kills should only happen in PvE.

StormageddonBK.9842:

DarthBenedict.3410:

It’s frustration that we’re still getting matchups decided by coverage this far into the games lifetime. WvW is a lot more fun when the battles mean something, and the keeps you take aren’t guaranteed to be lost every night through no fault of any of your players. Some players blame that on the server with more coverage because they are not very intelligent people.

Please explain… o.O

I’m saying that trashing a server for having timezone coverage is stupid, not that having timezone coverage is stupid.

DivineBeing.2086:

Hackuuna.4085:

Reset night is during North American prime time. Whoever comes away on that night with the top score has fielded a better NA team. If all servers involved have queues then the server that comes away with the top score at the end of that night has played the best on that night. There is absolutely no denying that.

I deleted that post for a reason. It’s just not worth arguing with you people.

The original point was you CANNOT judge a servers performance based on reset night. Once again, it is like playing the lotto. You get pugs filling slots that would normally go to organized guild members if it was any other night.

So a server wiping another server on reset night only means that server was able to field less pugs and more organized guild members. Congratulations.

The later in the week it is, the better the indication of the servers actual performance. Where each server fields less pugs and more of their dedicated and organized WvW guilds. THAT is when you can do the comparison. If Kaineng still outnumbers you then? Than sorry to say, Kaineng > your server, that is just the reality. Be a good sport, shake hands, and congratulate them. Don’t be the kid on the field that shakes the other teams hand and states “good job winning cheaters”, grow up.

Thats only true for extremely high population servers. Outside of tiers 1&2, reset is the only time every server is fielding a full team, and the queues aren’t long enough to keep any important guilds out.

SnakeDoc.8416:

I am not sure what everyone wants to hear from Kain players. you guys want an apology? Do you guys believe that the servers coverage and techniques are all by coincidence? Is it a true belief that if we run in a team of more than 10 people we must really be terrible? I do not why people are so bothered by our game play. Should we let the other servers dictate the way we play the game? tell us “that not the way we do it” so there for you guys are bad. If you need to hear it, here it is… I like my guild, i like the way we run, sometimes we are good and sometimes not so good. Yes we wipe sometimes getting caught in a well played/timed anti-maneuver by the opposing teams. I don’t think that defines the server as being a bad server, but that or opponents actually have some tactics we yet to see. Coverage plays a small part of our success but is indeed a beautiful thing and i will not apologize for the hard work many of our players put in outside the game and dealing with the egos and politics that came with putting together a successful alliance. I dont have anything bad to say about you db and mags, its been fun you have some great players and fight really well. But the animosity towards some of the guilds that transferred is unjustified (for the most part) for how quickly we forget the server transfers built Dragon Brand and Maguma on their way to the top. As i started form darkhaven i know how quickly a prospering server can quickly be broken. Most of us have seen our tough times in WvW on a dieing server so we came together with a common goal to start from the bottom T8 and build a community with Kaineng and make a home for us WVW players because the ones we all came from became broken. The more we fight together the stronger our alliance grows and we get better every week. So if your waiting for us to fall and split you will be waiting a while, because we have decided this is where we want to be and we didn’t just happen by coincidence.

It’s frustration that we’re still getting matchups decided by coverage this far into the games lifetime. WvW is a lot more fun when the battles mean something, and the keeps you take aren’t guaranteed to be lost every night through no fault of any of your players. Some players blame that on the server with more coverage because they are not very intelligent people.

DivineBeing.2086:

Heres why that argument means nothing. Your server was already losing by Saturday. You know, when the keeps and towers weren’t already fortified and the battle ground was starting to lose the non hardcore pugs. Where coverage didn’t matter yet since your NA crew were probably pulling all nighters like all servers do.

I am one of the few Australians on Maguuma, and I was there for reset. There were less than 10 mag players still online in EB by the time Kaineng actually took it.

Does this mean that Kaineng is a stronger server than Maguuma? Yes. Does it prove they have better tactics or players? No. It also doesn’t prove they have worse tactics or players. All it proves is that they had enough numbers at that time to make tactics and player skill irrelevant.

Blix.8021:

CrassBippy.4619:

this video leads to 2 conclusions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xok2x4PKrdk

1. They are multiboxing

2. They refuse to do anything besides what they are told, and such look pretty awful in alot of scenarios.

pick your poison

My guild and I have killed many WM running along the road who do not respond at all, definitely something strange going on. Either they are so devoted to their leader they do not deviate from his instructions at all (i.e., they’re insane) or they’re botting.

If it took less than a few seconds to kill them, it could have been someone who was using the trading post while autorunning. That has happened to me.

I don’t really care whether WM multibox or not, because they are fun to play against. I also think they would be more effective if they got some good duelists to spread out and keep the pressure on while they turn around for another charge, but their playstyle definitely has its advantages.

Also, regardless of whether WM do it or not, multiboxing might not even be a bad thing. It could let servers with poor coverage compete 24/7 – just get your night crew to play 10 characters each.

Iris Ng.9845:

DisplayName.7802:

Soo…
Anyone got tips to beat Kaineng?
Dont want it to be a total blowout on reset =|

Hardly, but if you encounter WM, avoid them at all cost. According to someone in Maguuma has stated, just sneak around WM and flip any structures that they left.

But if your purpose is to test if they are botting or not, then just face them head on.

They’re definitely beatable head on, my guild posted a video (or maybe more than one, not sure) of it being done in the original thread.

DisplayName.7802:

Soo…
Anyone got tips to beat Kaineng?
Dont want it to be a total blowout on reset =|

You don’t have the timezone coverage to beat them all week, but for reset day here’s what I can think of:

They like to move in huge zergs, which gives them an advantage in open field fights but makes it very hard to deal with being hit in lots of places at once.

Always keep stunbreakers and similar escape skills ready – they use a lot of invisibility to try to wipe people with a suckerpunch. You can avoid that by blinking out of the way, using endure pain at the right time etc.

Spread out to minimize the effectiveness of AoE, and always try to slow/pull people so the group leaves them behind.

Try to have one person with an arrow cart in every tower, that can delay a capture for a while and get warning so you have a good chance of wiping them from behind.

Flip camps with 2-3 people as much as possible, you can stop their defences getting upgraded and make it harder for them to build siege. Plus (I was on EB at reset, not sure if this applies in borderlands) they often send the whole zerg to deal with it, which takes pressure off the rest of the map.

Not sure if this will work again, but let them have stonemist then starve them of supply. Last reset, they put everything they could into holding it while we took their keep, towers and camps.

kfarb.6732:

2) I’m not sure if you’ve been following the threads, but the counter to WM’s tactic is simply to move to the side of the line they’re running in. Try it next time instead of standing in awe.

It’s harder than it sounds, they move fast and put down a lot of crowd control and mass stealth as they charge. A good player can manage it without too much trouble, but if your escape skills are on cooldown they will probably kill you, and all the guys your teammates downed will rally. So a group taking on WM will need decent numbers to ensure they can pull a few people out of the ball through all of the condition removal, then finish them before the next pass. It also needs all of those players to be individually good at evading zergs, because one weak player gives them a lot of rallies.

There are weaknesses to WMs tactics, and a bit of flexibility would make them a lot stronger, but they’re still an effective guild and fun to play against.

Yeah, I’d say oceanic servers would be the best answer. Mostly because I’m Australian and want less ping.

There’s a lot of frustration because the scoring system values timezone coverage above all else. A fair few people vent about this by raging at kaineng, but it really isn’t their fault and doesn’t say anything about the ability of kaineng players. Winning PvDoor doesn’t prove you have skill, but it also doesn’t prove you lack it.

SteepledHat.1345:

Apparently GS4, Staff5 and two shatters are AoE spam now. Mesmer has very few AoE options. You could consider sword AoE but it CQ, so I don’t think that’s what you were talking about. Anyway, mesmer “AoE spam” would look nothing like an elem.

With the right traits, null field and feedback put lots of confusion on anything that goes through them.

Doomdesire.9365:

Oh please, zerg fights are pure AoE spam. Thieves and mesmers would be dead meat. Stealth and clones don’t do too much when everywhere you’re standing is in a meteor shower. All the classes you mentioned are roaming, duelist classes, which the exception of a elementalist.

AoE spam only gets people on low health, after that they move to the back of the zerg and recover. A thief can do very well lurking behind the enemy zerg and ganking anyone who runs to the back with 20% health. Mesmers can AoE spam effectively with the right build.

Those three are the only viable classes for 1-3 player roaming, but every class can do something useful in larger fights.

Anet should get some servers for Asia so that players in that timezone can face each other instead of doors, and get decent pings while doing so.

Invalid.8765:

SuiRyuJin.4615:

8D seems like today was the day for epic keep defenses. kain was in on mag EB keep multiple times and wiped there also. i never get why a zerg on our wall will run ~2k distance, leave a bunch of their own downed player, then turn around and go back the same way only stopping when turning around and ended up wiping the other half of the zerg that didnt wipe on 1st pass. they only atk people in front of them 2, people aoeing from under the or across the wall doesnt gets touched, nor those that got behind them.

Because they are botting.

They’re not doing anything human players couldn’t, and their style of play mulches disorganised mobs extremely quickly. The only thing that makes me even slightly suspicious is that WM keeps doing it when the opposition doesn’t provide a target for the zergball and rapidly whittles down their numbers from the sides. However, that could easily be because they’re not used to encountering that kind of resistance and don’t know how to deal with it rather than anything to do with bots.

This matchup makes me sad because maguuma and kaineng can’t face each others peak.

BTW facing WM was a lot of fun, but I think you need to split up a little more when surrounded. Being able to melt everything in front of you isn’t that effective when people learn how to get out of the way. I got so many kills running alongside your zergball then scattering when it turned around.

I don’t really want to go back to T4, last time Maguuma was there it went kind of like this:

Maguuma waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were zergs in the keep. He didn’t see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Cernel Joson were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
Maguuma was a space marine for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to dad “I want to be on Tier 4 daddy.”
Dad said “No! You will BE KILL BY ZERGS”
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the UAC he knew there were zergs.
“This is Joson” the radio crackered. “You must fight the zerg!”
So John gotted his dagger/dagger ele and blew up the wall.
“HE GOING TO KILL US” said the zergs
“I will shoot at him” said the omega golem and he fired the rocket missiles. John churning earthed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the server lagged and they were trapped and not able to kill.
“No! I must kill the zergs” he shouted
The radio said “No, Maguuma. You are the zerglings”
And then Maguuma was queued in every borderlands against two empty servers.

Beyondthelol.9504:

DarthBenedict.3410:

Volatility.6729:

Does Mag roam with anything other than FOTM D/D eles?

Thieves and D/D eles are much better at escaping from zergs than other classes, so of course there will be more of them roaming.

Lol coming from a War player, the guild who fields d/d eles almost exclusively

It’s pretty easy to counter, but we’ll stay on the gravy train until other people figure out how.

Volatility.6729:

Does Mag roam with anything other than FOTM D/D eles?

Thieves and D/D eles are much better at escaping from zergs than other classes, so of course there will be more of them roaming.

Bunzy is a tactical genius who can single handedly aggro an entire zerg and hold them up in pointless forum arguments for hours.

The funny thing is that zerglings would make much, much better teammates than MMO players. Imagine trying to play Starcraft with an army of MMORPGers:

“I’m not attacking those SCVs because they don’t drop any decent loot”
“Scouting? Where’s the drops?”
“Why should I hold this position against greater numbers and risk a repair bill when I could log out and run dungeons?”
“Build a barracks? No way, that costs ME six silver”
“I’m not bringing my carrier because I still need to level zealot”

Oozo.7856:

Elems are hands down the best class at running away while their team mates die. No other class can compare. Well, except maybe thieves.

They definitely do it better than thieves; blinding powder and shadow refuge often help those teammates survive too. Eles are the ones with a thousand stories all ending with “I was the only one who made it out alive”

Winning brings you to a higher tier. Higher tiers have more players. More players means more lag.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Oozo.7856:

Calae.1738:

AoE needs to be nerfed hard. Really hard.

All you need is 1 commander and a bunch of lemmings following the commander closely. Everyone in the group is required to use weapon sets that deals AoE damage on the move. What this creates is a lawn mower. You know what a lawn mower is right? You know that device with rotating blades on 4 wheels that you push around that cuts grass? Yea that.

WvW is a pathetic zerg fest. A bunch of skilless lemmings spamming their auto attacks running around like a swarm of bees.

You are so wrong. The reason that it’s turning into a zergfest is because AoE is too weak not because it is too strong.

Let’s take the following situation:

A group of 5 engages a group of 20 in a close quarters fight. The group of 5 has all of their AoE spread out and mitigated by the 20 since there is a max of 5 hit per AoE. The group of 5 takes ALL of the AoE from the group of 20.

Now make a change. Raise the cap such that 15 people can take AOE damage. The inc damage to the group of 5 remains the same while the group of twenty now takes much more damage overall.

The current AoE code encourages people to zerg it up.

Are you really saying that changing aoe will cause players to not gather en’mass under a commanders banner?

Is that really what will change this behaviour?

They’d still gather in big groups, but they’d have to spread out a bit.

WäR has built a shrine to the glory of Great Lord Flame Ram.

I think culling has a lot to do with the zerg accusations. At the moment, any group of 3+ people could be 3 people or 40 people, and you don’t know until you’re in the middle of them.

PAGamer.4072:

Deadlysage.5873:

This is what has happened this week after [WäR] left Borlis Pass, since some players think we don’t have tactics and were carried. Please get your facts straight before you attempt to insult us. We do wish you all the best of luck with out us, and hopefully you get better in the future.

Beautykills, in appreciation for all that you’ve done for us, I sent you a cookie!

I was sad when I heard that WäR left us, but I’m starting to become not sad. In fact, I’m really having fun exploding you guys and your toys!

And I don’t care if we’re losing. Tonight was hilarious!

Smack talk on the forums is what makes those battles more than just watching health bars get smaller.

Warlord Lu Bu.7905:

testpig.5018:

I’m glad WäR has exited Borlis Pass server, their weak ZERG minded tactics were actually a hindrance to the tactical growth of this amazing server.

I can see his point, hopefully the rest of BP will step up now that we aren’t carrying them.

jaegerx.1693:

DarthBenedict.3410:

Is it possible to build flame rams in PvE?

I want to go on a crusade in orr to reconsecrate all the temples to the glory of Great Lord Flame Ram.

You don’t have supply in PvE but I bet Bunzy could do it.

Could you get supply from a camp, leave WvW, repeat?

Is it possible to build flame rams in PvE?

I want to go on a crusade in orr to reconsecrate all the temples to the glory of Great Lord Flame Ram.