Guild Wars 2

Druitt.7629:

Demonical.1039:

Im sorry but your first statement in your post is that Necro´s isnt broken and just that is a lie, a Huge advertised class mechanic of Necro is broken, Our minions do not work, when the class was announced and advertised it was a class that can raise creepy ( frankly ugly things i wish were skeletons…) undead beings to serve you, atm they are utter trash

No. This is hyperbole. The Necro core mechanic is not minions, it’s Death Shroud.

To be sure, minions are prominent in Necro lore, and some players definitely choose the Necro because they imagine themselves being the Evil Masters of the Undead!!!!!!!!! Bwahaa haa ha. And based on AN advertising, someone like that has every right to be disappointed that minions have many issues. Agreed.

BUT even with stupid AI, minions are not totally borked. I run without minions because I’ve chosen a different legitimate Necro playstyle. But when I do encounter a situation where I want to equip and use a minion, I’ve never had them not work as advertised. Not saying they don’t need serious attention, but the appropriate description of minions is that their AI has problems that strongly affect minion-based Necros.

(As a side note, you may not like that they don’t regen HP, but that seems like a legitimate choice by AN: other classes have summonables which exist for a limited time, while Rangers have pets that are permanent unless overwhelmed. Minions fall between those two extremes: they are not time-limited, neither are they permanent. And our elite minion is actually pet-like, bridging the gap.)

At any rate, there are multiple mechanics that are signatures of the Necro: Forms (especially DS), Marks, Minions, manipulation of boons/conditions, an unusually tough cloth-wearer, Fears, etc. There are multiple trait lines — none of which are dedicated to minions, by the way.

Yes, the dev remark about DS is ridiculous and provocative and deserves our scorn. Yes, Minion AI is problematic. But the class is not broken, and when the fanatics flood our forums with this unqualified “Necros are broken” thought, they turn away many prospective Necros who would not make minions the center of their builds. (Heck, pets/minions have been problematic in dungeons in every MMO I’ve played, so it’s historically been hard to be a super-pet/minion-focused build in groups.)

YOU are sorely disappointed in the class and it does not deliver what you imagined, based on AN’s advertising. You have a right to be unhappy. Saying that the class is therefore broken is misleading and counter-productive.

By advertising Minions so heavily as part of the Necromancer Anet themselves made it one of our core mechanic. DS and Minions and for months both were broken and one still is ( DS Trait line didnt work at all…. took them months to notice and fix that ) Your opinion is that they arent broken, thats you. After playing Mesmer,Warrior and massive amount of Necro´s that arent realy happy ill still stick with my opinion they are broken and the utter lack of any word other then demeaning post from Developers about the fact we need too L2P just keeps me firmly in the belief that they dont care.

in Beta our DS was originally our Downed state, they changed that too what it is now and its design is flawed because original concept for it was our downed state, Now when our class is highly advertised as a minion spec you exspect that to be the thing that acctualy works with the class it doesnt ( they AI is broken you have to admit that sometimes they attack other times they grab popcorn and stare at a monster beating you too death ) Fear was good until they nerfed it too 1 sec ( only class who got their fears nerfed like this btw others have theirs still at 2-3 sec ) and add in the fact the huge amount of bugs people have a full right to be negative, When a key part of the class is not working properly its my theory its broken ( again i mentioned some parts of it work but Minions are a keypart so ill stick with my broken comment )

Im sorry but your first statement in your post is that Necro´s isnt broken and just that is a lie, a Huge advertised class mechanic of Necro is broken, Our minions do not work, when the class was announced and advertised it was a class that can raise creepy ( frankly ugly things i wish were skeletons…) undead beings to serve you, atm they are utter trash and the developer who allowed that broken AI through shouldve been fired. Fact is Huge part of necro is broken, you cant say with a straight face it isnt broken when one of its key parts doesnt work, heck since release a whole freaking traitline wasnt working, it just got fixed receantly after several months of beta and live. Your statement is just false. Sure some of our Abilities work ok…. but doesnt negate that huge part of necro is still broken. And the fact that after all these months of not one peep out of developers about the broken AI of our Minions or their utter crap when they are used ( Wont regen health between fights along with long CD ) or the other bugs, oh or my favorite “Learn to use DS and youll be the scariest thing around” post by John its understandable people are negative.

they have had months to fix Necro it had major bugs since BWE1 wich they were told about, and only thing that happened was we got nerfed for BWE2-3 and then they dangle a carrot saying we require the most “love” and hit us with another nerf then again another month for 10 bug fixes out of how many last i check around 100… most of the fixes wont help us at all and one is just a lie Chillblain is still a tiny circle so now with a bigger trigger circle it makes the trait worse for using it with Chillblain others were very minor problems though i do like that we now have a swiftness utility that doesnt punish us for using it like evry other profession gets access too ( without the punishment part too ) and oh yeah we never got that “love” Though we should probably be happy about that since that love considering the last time is probably a rusty pipe.

Almost had me there :P Anet fixing broken Necro stuff…

Stop it you :P

well of corruptions skill icon changes to the Necro traversal one ONLY if you have the Trait that gives well ground targetting, if you dont have wells ground targetted they icon reverts back to the original, And having just checked in game, No they have not fixed this they still share the same icon. You mustve changed builds to removed Ground targeting and the icon reverted..

theyve been saying we needed some love since BWE3, they followed that up with a big nerf to our Scepter, so its been over 3 weeks since they promised taht love. So yeah people arekitten about still being forced to wait, Also then most Necro´s got to read how Jon told evry Necro that we need to L2P..

BCDragon.5614:

I swear people today don’t know how to read…Jon said that it might be a week OR MORE before we see any changes to the class….so as soon as the patch comes out and nothing is done about the necro, everyone gets their panties in a bunch. Wow, just wow.

You clearly didnt read what he wrote about is in the pvp forums…

Stop comparing this to GW1 the game is NOTHING like it, except for the lore and background setting. Comparing this Necro to the one in GW1 is a joke. If we had the skills and abilities to be MM like back in GW1 then youd see alot of people with pets. Atm you do not because evry freaking Necromancer in GW2 has come to the conclusion that so eluded the designers that our Minions in this game are utter crap with the mind the size of a walnut that just lays there 50% of the time. They are badly designed and whoever though the design was a good idea should feel bad about it. They are just awfull in their current form, The traits for pets are spread evrywhere in our traits meaning we have to shoot ourselves in the foot to get the traits, and they do pitiful dmg and have no survivability with 1 minute CD on the skills. And thats just IF they acctualy decide to do something other then stand there with drool hanging from their lips while you get Mowed down by mobs.

@Venom

Well DS was originally our Downed State for some reason they changed that into its current incarnation and thanks to that made us to way to survivable so they started slashing and nerfing the profession and now they just have no clue how to balance us, so we will be stuck like this for a pretty long time until they get a clue.

stop saying Condition isnt DMG its sustained dmg the opposite of Burst DPS the problem with it is we apply bleeds and maintain them the slowest compared to Engineers thiefs rangers warriors and mesmers, Wich becomes a huge problem when in groups because of the Bleed cap, other classes apply and maintain their bleeds faster and maintain them better then we could ever do atm. And power/crit build isnt viable compared to the other profession your doing way less dmg then others even when they are specced for survivability. atm The DPS of the Axe is pathetic and so is the dagger spec compared to any other profession using a power/crit Spec, Try it on any other profession and see the huge diffrence.

Why does evryone keep saying Necro is meant to be a team player where are you getting that info. Or that we are forced to be support.. The designers ADMITED after BWE3 that we were the profession that needed the most “Love” they just ahve no clue hwo to do it thx to DS, Our dmg is pathetic, Condition spec is worse then Rangers, Thiefs Engineers warriors AND mesmers doing the same thing since they can apply Bleeds much faster then us and keep them up at higher stacks filling the bleed cap so we maybe can keep 5 up in a PvE dungeon or events. I never posted on these forums until i read that message from Jon Peters basicly telling all of us we can be “Scary good” if we all just L2P using DS. Happy Happy Necros….

@Tony.2150 Please go ahead spec power and tell us how that goes critting for max 4-5k using lich form while the warrior next to you laughs around the floor as he sits around in his survivability spec doing 10k critical hits… Evryone agress conditions is the only way to go now because our Power build does the most Pathetic dmg in the game atm.

He´s already told us to L2P and uses DS as an exscuse that we wont get any better dmg wise. But hey he promises to increase our build viability aka with power, but wont increase our effectiveness so we will have a viable power setup with CRAP dmg we already have. And putting aside the PvP Facet we are on the lowest ladder in PvE content because we just cant go anywhere near the dmg other classes can pump out, our utility others is we have to use wells to supply OTHER people with Dark field for their combos. Power builds as a necro are a no go we have the most pathetic DPS in the game. Minion build is a no go. Condition build is our only option and even in that we are not even in third place as the best profession for being condition specced Engineer thief warrior and Mesmer can ALL apply conditions faster and maintain them longer then we can and condition builds become useless if you group with any of these classes because the bleed cap cripples us. SPvP is oneside and 90% of the game agrees that Necro is utter crap in it compared to other professions in PvE side of the game we are worse off. Its not fun and then him coming telling ALL OF US TO L2P. Pisses people who have spent time on the profession exspecting the fixes to come off. DS is a Neat idea but they are trying to balance our profession around it and failing they have already Admited that we are UP this is a direct qoute “Necromancers need some love” but hey that was followed up with another nerf, so clearly they have no utter clue how to balance us.

I do like my necro, But watching people dumping out so much more DPS compared to me whittling away at something and having no way to match that is depressing. Taking it even further is when you start being turned down for dungeon groups because your a Necro and its better to take ANY other profession to make the dungeon easier on you.

Problem is during the concept phase DS was imagined as our “Downed” state not a diffrent form ( Hence the 4 abilitys akin to downedstated ones instead of 5 like in a weapon set ) Then they changed it into its current incarnation and thanks to it they have no idea how to balance the profession compared to the others wich just means we will be stuck playing bad conditionmancers compared to other professions, Worst DPS profession in the game or a Annoying tank that holds points with wells in Spvp. Realy not the gameplay you imagined when you picked necro is it?

the depressing thing starts when we stop getting into dungeons because we are a waste of spot compared to the other professions, twice over the last two days ive been turned down because “Sorry dude Necro´s just arent that good” and thats just depressing. Just wait till evryone else starts picking up on that little tidbit and imagine the fun we will have.

Considering JonPeters reply about Necro i´d reroll now rather then suffer through them trying to increase our build viability without increasing our effectiveness, Theyve shot themselves in the foot at first DS was supposed to be our Downed state then they thought maybe it was too powerfull to have necros have that kind of downed state compared to others so they changed it to its current incarnation and now they have NO CLUE how to balance us so we stand on equal footing dmg wise with others. So just Reroll, Good choice would be warrior since in another post the same Game Designer admitted he played it. Ergo probably will stay on the top ladder for a long time.

Fadeway.3592:

Sjach, I don’t play PvP and I’m sure it’s different there, but what you claim for PvE is completely wrong. If you get in a good group, you won’t need to heal them. The dungeons currently ran en-masse can be survived easily, once you know the layout (after 1-2 runs), simply by dodging. In a speedrun environment (aka where everyone tries to be as good as possible), a healer only slows you down, and you only bring one if absolutely necessary.

Yes, I haven’t run many explorable dungeons – only three of them, in fact. I prefer to repeat the same one, as everyone else does. When everyone gets geared and we form that ele and mesmer-only team, we’ll see if bringing a tank/healer to the other, less-often run explorables is necessary /it probably won’t be/, and if it is, necro will probably be displaced by a guardian or a ranger or a warrior or all the other classes we’ll try out before even getting the idea to give him a chance. We’ll probably get by with just dodging and throwing the occasional water spell (the latter part being something we’ve never needed in the current dungeons) though.

Minions are supposed to be random, they are not pets Asmodean, and should never be. They shouldn’t bekitten but that’s another problem entirely.

And yes, balancing is not done with potential in mind. I understand that Mr. Peters wants to see how the metagame develops before making sweeping changes (and the metagame is probably evolving fast with how new the game is), and I can wait, but those bug fixes can’t come soon enough.

The problem with dungeons is anything we can do. ANY other professsion can do better we are a wasted spot they coulda used to bring in a more usefull profession, only thing we can do more then other people is ASSIST them with Dark fields combo manouvers and realy is taht why you play the game? To be the pathetic dmg guy who can survive a bit longer while helping your buddies out with fields that have a huge CD and 5 second duration? Realy they are better off taking a Higher DMG dealing class then us since it will mean the fights will be shorter for them.

Pretty sure its time to reroll unless you want to wait for them to give us a viable power build, but remeber they arent gonna increase our effectiveness so it will be viable power build with the same crap dmg axe, dagger and staff, Hurray. Realy feeling the love (( though we shoulda known “love” means something else in the Anet dictionary when that statement was followed with a nerf too our scepter making us worse condition appliers then mesmers, engineers thiefs and warriors ))

We just need to L2P, Or well thats according to a JonPeters Game Designer, Basicly reason we are so lackluster in evrything is Because we just dont know how to use DS to become scary good, would love for him to explain too us exactly how, Evrythign we do atm can be replicated by other classes much better then us. DPS we are on the lowest ladder of that, Condition applying several other professions can stack and maintain conditions far better then we can. Survivability, Sure we can survive longer then many other classes being annoying gnats holding points but so can several other higher armored professions. None of wich counters our horrible traits and bugged pets along with our pathetic dmg.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-play-a-necro-but-I-traid-a-warrior-for-one-play-session/first

Enjoy reading his opinion of Necros. One post at 1st page, Two at 2nd page.

“JonPeters
Game Designer
Next
Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.”

“JonPeters
Game Designer
Next
Let me try and clarify myself a bit more. Death Shroud is very powerful because it gives Necromancer access to a secondary health bar which is is much more reliably renewable than normal health is for other professions. On top of that it essentially also gives them a 3rd weapon set that they can use to circumvent the basic weapon swap cooldown to reliably bounce between powerful skills in 3 different sets. For both of these reasons, Necromancer has a high power ceiling but also an extremely high learning curve.
In the current condition heavy meta-game, there is a lot of condition removal. The problem this is causing for Necromancers is that they do not have a lot of build diversity in this meta, because they don’t have any great power builds they can turn to. What I would like to try and do is increase build diversity without increasing effectiveness because I don’t believe we have really seen what strong Necromancers can do yet.
Hopefully that explains a bit where we stand. We are still working towards getting rid of all of the bugs in everyone’s skills and traits at which point we can get a much better idea of where everyone stands. That time will also give us the chance to see where the large amount of current players actually takes the meta game.
Jon”

Also something aboutmus needing the most love and we all know what came after that, our scepter got nerfed hard

If those patch notes made you queasy enjoy reading what JonPeters opinion of Necro atm is, I wouldnt get my hopes up about us being balanced DPS wise anytime soon. I was getting depressed playing necro in Group PvE seeing evry other profession doing things we could do just much better but hey i was just gonna wait for that “love” they promised . It seems unlikely we are getting that in the future unless its in another form of “love nerf to the scepter”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-play-a-necro-but-I-traid-a-warrior-for-one-play-session/first

Death shroud is a 3rd weapon set as disappointing as all our other ones, all of the abilities are lackluster and the only reliable weapon to build up DS life force is Staff, the one that builds it up on scepter is a ability no necro uses since its dmg is laughable and high power ceiling? how high is it when we stack power yet our ultimate lich ability still hits for laughable 3-4k while the warrior next to us is hitting for 10+ k with each hit? you know how depressing that is? Or how Engineers or Warriors apply bleed faster and maintain them longer then we can makign that build about as equally depressing to use, Our Minions are not usable at all at the moment, Daggers our power weapon do lackluster dmg and force us to melee for that lackluster dmg or our axe wich is the uttermost crap you can find at the moment, All this is made up by our DS? Our main job seems to be the tankiest mage around hittign people like gnats, Yay we can wear people out doing lower dmg and jumping into DS with Horrible abiltys cuts us off from our utilitys and elite and you just tell us your gonna increase our build viability but not increase our effectivness so basicly if you want to be able to DMG other players using a power build play something else. Same thing with conditionmancer we get to pick, We can be a tanky lackluster conditionmancer or roll another class less tanky but can dish out more condition stacks and dmg.

problem is Necro is quickly become the least desirable profession in the game in PvE and PvP since our jobs are easily reproduced by other professions MUCH better then we can and then pretty much the only communication on our problem is that message, Its not a nice turn of events when we were told our profession needed some love.

Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.

His first line basicly tell us Necro is hard to master, hence most problems arise from our ability to properly play it, he also said Once people start mastering DS, “He´s afraid of how strong necro´s will be” Thats in our current form, then follows it up with we just need to give it time so us “Average” players learn to play it, Where in that message do you get the message that we arent “fine” according to him after we learn how to play using DS. I didnt get a hint that we were gonna get any fixes like that “Love” they said was coming our way, ( Followed up with a few days later a big nerf to condition builds )

We were told in the BWE that Necro “Needed some love” it was followed up by a nerf to our most viable spec. Now he tells us that we are fine and that evry necro just needs too “Master” DS to be viable, We are the least desired PvP class up there with Elementalist thats just a fact, In PvE yet again least desirable class. For the people who acctualy lvled up Necro and like it who were waiting for that “Love” they promised we have now just been told that we are fine and we need to L2P it properly. That kind of information tends to upset people.

milo.6942:

Right, so maybe this isn’t clear to people that haven’t played guild wars 1, but the necro was not a “damage dealer”. He provided mostly enemy debuffs, buff stripping, degeneration, light cc, and if you build him properly, a moderate amount of damage. I feel like I have to spell this out: The necro was a team asset. You didn’t play necro and then complain on forums that you did no damage. Which is what you people are doing. Which is why everyone needs to get a grip, relax, and apologize to Mr. Peters, who was trying to help out.

Your wrong in GW2 We do not have many debuffs, buffs, etc etc that was in GW1. In GW2 necromancer is completly diffrent without the varied skill option in GW1. And without those skills our complete lack of DMG compared to the other profession atm is unfair, we are pigeon holed into being a conditionmancer ( A job we arent even in third place on being the best at since several other professions can apply and maintain bleeds more rapidly than us ) or a well support build ( wich is a gimmick device in PvP where the fights are always moving ) wich is only usefull realy if we want to be the guy in the back defending the points, Telling evry necro that we need to learn to play using DS to be any good is a low blow coming from a Game Designer

But that is the problem ive tried using DS, even fully specced it doesnt do much dmg or last long enough in any situation to be usefull for anything other then a AoE (( a very low dmg aoe compared to other professions even in power spec )) or to absorb dmg and survive a bit longer. Its a defense mechanic that doesnt compare to the fact we do utterly crap amount of dmg when specced for it, We are supposed to be the profession with condition yet we cant apply conditions as fast as the other professions or keep them up as long, We are supposed to be the class with the undead minions but they just dont work in either PvP or PvE, they are just useless. DS does not make up for our weaknesses in all the other facets of the game ATM we are the least desirable class in both pvp and pve, anything we can do you can pick another profession and it can do it better.

milo.6942:

Wow. That was amazing. Couple of you people are so out of line with human decency, let alone basic respect for the people that created the game you are playing it’s jaw-dropping.

Especially this one:

Ezekeel.2837:

The OP is 100% correct. The damage with the necro is just pathetic compared to other professions. DS does not give any significant damage boost, so telling people that they just need to learn to properly use DS is complete nonsense.

You are responsible for the balancing and you failed. Stop patronizing us, stop talking nonsense and do your job!

Completely oblivious to how the game works and the idea that maybe, just maybe, classes are not balanced only around their damage output. What a joke.

Edit: Oh wow he’s still posting that bs…

You did not get told that the class you have spent upwards of 200 hours playing is fine and you just have to L2P it by a Game Designer when 90% of necros agree that theres something wrong with the profession compared to the others. Compared to the utter lack of information Necro´s have gotten from any developers nearly the only info we get is that we have just yet to Master the class to be good isnt a fun fact.

We can build tanky, we can do that, But in a power build we do less dmg then the other classes with a full power setup and using our Elite nuking skill Lich form we can get 3-4k hits wich is quite low compared to the other professions in full power gear, In Conditionmancer spec is the only thing we realy shine in yet we cant apply conditions as fast as many other professions our only real job there is condition control and thanks to some bugs that isnt even good (Plague signet for example just copyign conditions of others and not removing them ) We just seem to have no viable job taht any other class cant do better then us, lets not even go into the fact that a huge part of necro is not viable because of horrible AI and nonexistant usability in most content in the game

DS even in fully specced and in full power gear does NOWHERE near the dmg some of the other classes can pump out with their DPS weapon sets and the dmg gets lower with each use of the Nr.1 ability since its tied to Lifeforce we currently have, neither does it last long enough and it cuts us off from all our utilitys and elite skills, how is that supposed to be the factor that makes us “Balanced” compared to the other classes or hell make anyone afraid of us? In its current form no one uses it for anything other then a fear that lasts a lovely one second or a damage absorber. And being told that we just need to L2P the Class to be able to do anything is just…

DS is a 4 skill ability ( with two of them being slightly good to use ) and even fully specced into it doesnt last that long or does that much dmg even in full power gear so i have no idea what he´s going on about but hey its clearly we have yet to master Necro. Thats the problem all Necros have, we all just need to L2P it properly heh

no worries necro´s are fine according to Jon Peters we just have to learn how to master Necro and use DS properly to be the scariest class out there.

“Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/I-play-a-necro-but-I-traid-a-warrior-for-one-play-session

So Basicly according to the game designer its just a L2P issue… yeah..