Guild Wars 2

ANET as it stands now – HoD will be T2 again next week. Please MANUALLY move them to T3 so that both Sea of Sorrows and Sanctum of Rall can get into T2 matchup. ET will move down to T3 on their own allowing SoR to move up. However, due to current system HoD will not due to their very high score up until 2 weeks ago. We need to get SoS (which is the next power server) up into T2 to keep WvW integrity due to your free transfer policy.

A WvW matchup in T2 with HoD in it will be awfully boring fast. Please make the manual adjustments and move HoD down and bring SoS up.

/sign

True stat…for every whiny post on the forums there are thousands of people absolutely loving the game as is.

Cheers!

RUIN moved to Desolation. I have nothing against them…however, based on previous experience you will have a hard time getting WvW players to switch to a server with that guild in it.

TL is NA Time Zone guild…not EU.

Where do people come up with this stuff? Massive exodus from ET to IoJ? TL came over – one guild. What is this nonsense about massive exodus? Now we suddenly have 24/7 hour queue’s too?

Its awesome that the non-IoJ and ignorant folk are doing our transfer blocking for us. Love it!

Hi Mike, could you please post the rest of the matchups for dates 9/11 to 9/13. I believe the one week matchups started on 9/14. Thank you.

Let me preface this by saying we could be on the cusp of making the matchups pretty balanced. I’d also say I’m on Isle of Janthir – so this is where my view are in regards to next week’s matchup:

The funnest matchup would be IoJ, Dragonbrand, Crystal Desert – this matchup is what I’d like to see – which is number 5, 6, and 7. I think IoJ would win this matchup and then be legitimately the number 5 server in all NA. However, if this happens – you’d have ET (#4) going up against Fort Aspenwood (#8) and Beast Gate (#9)? Which could probably be pretty good, especially during NA Prime Time – but ET’s “night cappers” would roll face. While SoS drops down to face Gates of Madness and Yak’s Bend.

Its not inconceivable that this would happen…however:

What is more likely to happen is ET drops down and we’d face ET and Dragonbrand. I do think HoD will end up edging it out and won’t be sent down to the second tier. Fort Aspenwood goes up against Beastgate and Crystal Desert. Under this scenario SoS drops down. If IoJ could get organized coverage in just ONE more borderland since we’d have the Blood Pact Alliance, the IoJ Alliance, and the TEST Alliance each covering their designated borderland. We’d be set and the showdown in NA prime between us ET and Dragonbrand would be EPIC.

My natural pic would be PTX who is currently on FA and just found out how good IoJ NA could be with the recent influx of WvW talent and the extremely low queues.

If you play in NA time zone – take a look at Isle of Janthir and Sea of Sorrows. These are the 4th and 5th ranked servers – currently no queues during NA prime. These two servers enjoy a great Oceanic and Asian “night capping” crew.

If you play in Oceanic/Asian prime time – take a look at Crystal Desert, Blackgate, and Gate of Madness.

I believe the way it works now – the first 4 servers (HoD, ET, SI, and JQ) have 24 hr coverage and NA Prime Time queues. The next two servers (SoS and IoJ) have 16 hour coverage these include NA Prime Time and Oceanic/Asian. However SoS and IoJ currently do not have NA Prime Time queues and need guilds to stack for NA Prime and competing against the top 4 servers. The next 3 servers (Crystal Desert, Gate of Madness, and Blackgate) have NA queues and 8 hour coverage basically just NA Prime Time. SoS and IoJ beat down these servers because of our Asian/Oceanic playerbase and we play them even on NA prime even when outnumbered.

Great time to move over to IoJ or SoS at the moment if you are looking for 0 WvW queues and play NA prime time slot.

@Sky.9347

Ok, I understand. As it stands right now there is perceived “risk” in that they transfer then lose guild buffs. Then server becomes popular and they have to transfer again and lose guild progress again. Its a good point. It could be easily fixed by ANET if they allow guilds to keep their progress when they transfer.

If ANET switched their policy and allowed guilds to take their guild progress with them – would this fix the perceived risk? Or would there be additional factors involved? So if ANET fixed this issue – would your guild be in market to transfer to another server with no NA queue times and night time coverage?

Shepperd.2178:

I don’t understand how ANET thinks they are balancing servers, they are collecting all this data about the player base from each server while said people are constantly jumping ship to other servers when theirs is losing, or even ranking 2nd on their map. Because it takes about 5 seconds to do it and its free. I’ve transferred across several realms to see if the same thing is happening everywhere and it is. Everywhere (almost) has 1 server dominating and the rest struggling to collect pennies.

I’m also on Darkhaven and when this matchup launched DH was leading, my guild even captured Stonemist. We were winning till about 2am est when Yaks bend started to come up on us, till that point it had been a relativily fair matchup and when I logged on in the morning 7-8hrs later, Yaks bend had near 100%, and I had even found out a good portion of DH people had transferred there. Fail.

Disabling free transfers at this point isn’t enough to solve the problem because the damage is already done. Very good guilds will eventually transfer around for shorter que times and a smaller population so they can be ranked higher on their server (lol) we saw this in WoW a lot. But really that is only a small portion in comparison. And who knows how long that could really take. Point is, you can’t collect data to make server matchups when people can move around willy nilly, and you can’t force people back to other servers, so what are you going to do ANET? I’d love to know.

But you need free server transfers to help encourage people to run away from servers that have no night coverage or long queues. And also it looks like ET needs help with their Asian/Oceanic time zone and so do some of the other top 4 servers. Its just NA Prime Time players that have the long queues – point is you cant just close free transfers and leave tons of people hanging out to dry with either long queues or no night time coverage. Bottom line, ANET needs to fix three areas that I have analyzed:

1. Communicate the average expected queue times accross all 3 prime time zones for each server.
2. Let guilds carry with them their guild buffs when they transfer
3. Match servers with similar population profiles for WvW as opposed to a strict points based system.

@Sky.9347

Agree, losing progress in the guild buffs is a critical factor.

Your second point I disagree with. If person wants no queues during NA Prime AND also wants night capping coverage – there are several viable options. So far I’ve heard the following servers have “night capper” coverage:

1. Island of Janthir – no queues during NA prime
2. Sea of Sorrows – no queues during NA prime
3. Yaks Bend – dunno about NA prime queues

So I guess it depends on what assurances you need. The only one so far is guilds not wanting to lose their progress. But if you want to play without NA prime time queues and also have night coverage – the solution and perfect servers for these problems are there. But when I see a thread complaining about night capping the only viable suggestion has been – guild buffs lost. However, launch of this game was 3 weeks ago – so I doubt 2 or 3 weeks of guild progress is seen as an impossible barrier to help your own situation.

People should be looking at understanding why the current system in place is not working before putting out outlandish and outright terrible ideas on how to fix WvW server pop and play time inbalances.

MilkInBags.5136:

Yes, I’m in the Anvil Rock vs Darkhaven vs Yak’s Bend battle and Yak’s Bend is the unofficial gathering point of Oceanic people. What happens is during the evening we really rock the battleground but when we log off at like 2-3 am, Yak’s Bend got fresh reinforcements from the Oceanic people and we just can’t do anything.

And so we wake up in the morning and everything is capped and we slowly have to build up our forces throughout the day to be able to give a big punch in the evening.

I don’t mind too much since Yak’s Bend will just go up in the rankings and we’ll never see them again

Right on. I’ve now heard of several “unofficial” Oceanic/Asian servers – there are like 5 right now. Either way – this is besides the point.

Basically ya’ll got “night capped” by Yak’s Bend. What circumstances prevent you from joining a “night capping” server with 0 queues during NA prime so you can compete with Yak’s Bend? You mentioned dilution of player base which was not a very good point. What other factors prevent your guild from seeking and transferring to a “night capping” server that also offers 0 queue times during NA prime?

EmperorOfDoom.4362:

Hardly anyone on the worlds is playing only a small group of nightcappers is active, sometimes from other timezones. Because this ruins the entire WvW after about 3 days whats the point in the days after that. The score difference has become huge by then and people stop playing after a while.

So just close the WvWvW at night from like 2am – 10am GM on weekdays.

Or another option is stop people from america/asia on europian WvW and visa versa.

Pretty terrible idea – dude you do know that International players have paid just as much as you to play right?

MilkInBags.5136:

Dethwar.1768:

Ok, point 1. Not sure what you mean by dilluted? Please explain. Medium populations guilds can better recruit in high population servers and they get the added benefit of having no queues for WvW where they can play to their heart’s desire. So could you please go into more detail about dillution, I’m interested as to what you mean.

I’m playing in a medium to high pop server (Anvil Rock) and we already have a 300 members guild, and counting. There is a cap to a guild and it’s fairly easy to reach it. If you have a bigger population, you obviously have more guilds around that try to run the WvW and so the good players can be dispersed in too many guilds.

Dethwar.1768:

On your second point. I see your point here. Guilds in the top 4 servers don’t want to transfer to the second and third tier servers because of performance in smaller servers. However then, by logic the opposite would be true as well. Low pop and Med servers would be transferring to the second tier servers where they can enjoy High Population more active WvW and an around the clock coverage – but this is not currently happening. Point taken, but would like your opinion on this pls.

Without the real rankings it’s a bling pick. If we look at the actual state, transferring to Jade Quarry is a REALLY bad idea because they are against Henge. Imo I wouldn’t take the risk to transfer to a high pop server just to see myself getting owned all the time in WvW despite all our efforts. I’d rather be in a smaller server with absolutely no queue

With regards to point #1. I see what you are saying – good player dilution between several guilds. I don’t agree here and feel free to disagree with me. Good players flock to good guilds. If you are in a good guild – you would have no problem attracting the good players. By going to a high population server you would have a higher player base to recruit from and if you go to IoJ or SoS you still would have 0 queue times in WvW. It all depends on your recruting efforts and selectivity – not on the amount of players spread out through entire server. Unless you were claiming that good players go to smaller servers – your point I fail to understand.

With regards to point #2. Yes, going to a high queue server would be a bad idea because of the queue times during your hours of play – like JQ. May I ask, does your server suffer by the “night capping” tactics of your opposition?

I guess, I’m not trying to understand the people that have low queues and a night capping crew. I’m trying to understand the people who have high queues during their play time and no night capping crew.

Zenyatoo.4059:

@ dethwar (because the quoting doesnt feel like working for some reason?)
“Just trying to understand a bit better why people would complain about “night capping” but the servers that actually have good “night capping” crews are not been flooded with NA guilds looking to stay competitive and build a community.”

My point is on fort aspenwood we have queue during the day time. So no guild will receive a benefit from transferring here. They will still have to wait during the day to get in and play.

Which was mostly aimed at this line
“What’s more perplexing is that these two servers have 0 queues during NA prime and need the help”

I was just pointing out that not every server with an active night crew has 0 queues during NA prime time. So the benefit for guilds switching can be much lower than you would suspect.

Yes, I agree. There wouldn’t be a benefit for them. But there would be a benefit for the crews that are getting night capped – I’m seeking to understand the thinking of those that claim that “night capping” is not fair – but yet refuse to go to a server where they would enjoy the benefits – 0 queue times and a force to battle the night capping servers.

Why do the players going up against your server not transfer to a server with a night capping crew? They want to recruit a night capping crew – but fail to transfer themselves.

I think I found one of the factors – some WvW interested people are getting fooled by the high population descriptor thinking they’d have queues for WvW if they transfer. However, there is no correlation in the two.

I guess my theory (and logic) would be that there is a “pain” threshold – lets put this “pain” threshold at 40 minute queue times. There are two motivating factors – winning and playing. You join a winning server until the pain threshold is reached – until consistently you reach the 40 minute waiting time. So people would fill into the servers motivated by winning and crunch the top servers.

But my logic would tell me this would happen accross all play times (NA/EU/Asian/Oceanic) up until queues reach the pain point. Then they would transfer to the next “winning” server until pain thresholds are reached again…this would allow for neatly stacking of server populations and overflowing populations would “tier down”. I’m guessing that is why ANET published the ranking. I’m also thinking that without the next factor average “queue” times for their playing zone, people don’t know where they can play on a winning server without reaching the “pain” thresholf of long queue times.

Tzash.5748:

Its now 8pm where I am (GMT+8), Oceanic prime time and offpeak for the US. I look at the US server list and only 3 servers are medium – Devona’s Rest, Eredon Terrace and Kaineng. Every other server is High.

So tell me this, if all bar 3 servers are High pop in US offpeak hours then why are people complaining that they can’t field a night crew? You have the people! They are on your server! Go encourage them to play!

The population is high for the server but not necessarily high for WvW. You can’t encourage people to play WvW – nobody can encourage me to go play PvE or sPvP. You would understand this if you put yourself in others shoes – especially the shoes of people who don’t like PvP nor WvW.

triscuit.1238:

Dethwar.1768:

Understanding why people aren’t using the system in place to smooth out WvW populations is what I’m after.

Seriously? You don’t understand why thousands of people interested in WvW from all over the world aren’t collectively dispersing themselves to random servers where a WvW community may not ever exist?

If anet honestly wanted that, they would have some sort of optional tool which asked the player about their play and then recommended/assigned a server.

I’ve been to several several servers where WvW might as well not even exist compared to the top servers, and you wonder why I didn’t stay there waiting for more people to randomly come?

Valid point – I’d like to understand players like you a bit better. Can I ask what Prime Time zone you play? NA Prime, Oceanic/Asian, EU? Also, how long is the queue to play in your current WvW server? And also, does your current server suffer from “night capping” tactics by your opposition?

MilkInBags.5136:

Dethwar.1768:

I’m for smoothing out the WvW populations. Cancelling out the free transfer system lets things be as they are now. Understanding why people aren’t using the system in place to smooth out WvW populations is what I’m after. But thnx for derail – back on topic.

Well it’s fairly easy. Medium pop servers are building guilds and might not want to be dilluted in a high pop server with so many other guilds.

High pop server guilds don’t want to go in smaller servers because they don’t perform as much in WvW (by the ranking numbers).

Ok, point 1. Not sure what you mean by dilluted? Please explain. Medium populations guilds can better recruit in high population servers and they get the added benefit of having no queues for WvW where they can play to their heart’s desire. So could you please go into more detail about dillution, I’m interested as to what you mean.

On your second point. I see your point here. Guilds in the top 4 servers don’t want to transfer to the second and third tier servers because of performance in smaller servers. However then, by logic the opposite would be true as well. Low pop and Med servers would be transferring to the second tier servers where they can enjoy High Population more active WvW and an around the clock coverage – but this is not currently happening. Point taken, but would like your opinion on this pls.

Zenyatoo.4059:

well coming from fort aspenwood, which is doing its fair share of night capping.

According to my guildies who play during the day, we have 2-3 hours queues. Whereas late night my queues are instant.

Which means there’s no benefit to joining our server for wvwvw unless you were also part of a night crew. Your queue time will (likely) increase, and you wont see much benefit.

To understand, Fort Aspenwood has a night crew of Oceanics and Asians with a two to three hour queue – this is what you term by having a “night crew”? There would be a benefit for guilds looking for no queues and a “night crew” to come over. There of course wouldn’t be any benefit for “night crew” guilds to come over since they can’t play.

I fail to understand your logic – my apologies.

Narathkor.8541:

Sorry mate…you are posting on the wrong thread. Please take a look at the topic of the forum post before responding. Thnx.

No I am not, this guy is promoting using the free transfer system, I am debating the side of not using it, and it not being implemented at all.

I’m for smoothing out the WvW populations. Cancelling out the free transfer system lets things be as they are now. Understanding why people aren’t using the system in place to smooth out WvW populations is what I’m after. But thnx for derail – back on topic.

Tzash.5748:

MilkInBags.5136:

Because the night capping servers have a high pop, and so you would need to queue for hours “to be competitive”.

Actually SoS and IoJ are technically night capping servers because of their high Oceanic pop and if what Dethwar says is true then there is no queue during US prime time.

Yes, this exactly Tzash. These two are high population servers but not high population servers for WvW. You got my point for sure. I’m in IoJ and three of the 4 borderlands in IoJ have 0 queue times. The only borderland that has queue times is the borderland where the current alliance plays – other than that absolutely empty during NA prime time hours.

MilkInBags.5136:

Because the night capping servers have a high pop, and so you would need to queue for hours “to be competitive”.

I’m sorry, I fail to understand this. You are saying that IoJ and SoS because they are high pop servers also have long queues for WvW? That is not the case AT ALL. If that is really the thinking, please hear me out. My server IoJ is full of PvE’rs during NA prime. Its a high population server but there are no queues for WvW AT ALL.

Just because a server is a high pop server, does not mean they are a high pop server for WvW. The guild I’m in has no problem fitting in our crew of 10 to 15 with 0 queue times at any time during NA prime time (7pm to 3am est).

Narathkor.8541:

Free transfers need to go.

On top of this, the server rankings need to be reset, 24 hour matches reinstated for at least 1 week after the free transfers have gone away. The ranking data is inaccurate because lets say you had a server that was doing good, but the queue was long, guild cant field its crew, guild transfers off, ranking data starts to be faulty. This has gone on for almost a month now, and the ranking data is now extremely faulty and many servers have been matched up against servers they should not be.

Sorry mate…you are posting on the wrong thread. Please take a look at the topic of the forum post before responding. Thnx.

Just wanted to understand the mindset of the player base. What prevents guilds/alliances/people from using the free transfer system? Is it because loyalty to current server has already formed? Is it because of guild perks are lost? Is it because fear of the “unknown”?

Just trying to understand a bit better why people would complain about “night capping” but the servers that actually have good “night capping” crews are not been flooded with NA guilds looking to stay competitive and build a community. Everyone wants to recruit the Aussies and Asians – but there are servers with very strong Aussies and Asians (IoJ/SoS) already. What’s more perplexing is that these two servers have 0 queues during NA prime and need the help. What would prevent guilds/people/alliances in non-top-4 servers to transfer over to the 5th and 6th ranked server in North America – especially when they need the help during YOUR prime time hours of play.

IoJ and SoS have employed this strategy against ET…however it was employed way too late allowing ET to basically secure 3 orbs within keeps with upgrades all the way up to spawn points. I have a feeling next time IoJ and SoS are in same bracket they will have learned their lesson.

But yeah, this strategy has been deployed in the second tier matchup and it works. SoS and IoJ only have enough NA Prime Time presence to basically play on one borderland – ET dominates all other 3 borderlands with huge amount of number inbalance. Yesterday for example, all of the forces from IoJ and SoS were in the SoS borderlands. When we first arrived the whole map was green – ET +695, IoJ +0, and SoS +0. But since we doubled teamed ET – Red got their Garrison back and IoJ got the two southern towers plus all the supply camps. We rallied all the forces to try and get back the keeps but they had way too much siege equipment which had built up to max upgrades over a number of days.

So good fighting on one night of 2 v 1 – too bad we only had enough NA Prime population to play in one borderland basically and ET had 4 days time of unbothered keep/tower upgrades and siege built up.

Public Service Announcement

If you are whining about night capping – please move your guild to either Sea of Sorrows or Isle of Janthir. These two servers have no NA prime time presence and therefore very small to no queues during NA Prime Time (7pm to 3am EST) and the Australian/Asian population to compete with the top 4 servers.

So – DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Don’t whine on the forums – TRANSFER YOUR BEHINDS OVER TO Isle of Janthir OR Sea of Sorrows.

If you decide to come over to Isle of Janthir – check out the following alliances: www.isleofjanthir.us (NA Prime Time Alliance for Small/Med Guilds) and www.isleofjanthir.net (Oceanic/Asian Prime Time Alliance).

Cheers

Just 3 things need to be implemented:

1. Give guilds information. Separate the day into three 8 hour blocks (EU PRIME, NA PRIME, ASIAN/OCEANIC PRIME). Then rank the servers according to queue times during those 3 hour blocks. This gives guilds information on where to move and move away from high populated servers to less populated servers.

2. Don’t penalize guilds for transferring. All of the guilds progress and buff accumulation should go with them – don’t take this away when a guild wants to transfer from a high populated server in their Prime Time playing zone to another less populated server.

3. Match servers that go up against each other according to their prime time 8 hour playtime clock. Pit the Oceanics/Asian strong pop servers that have weak NA Prime pops against each other. Don’t just use point totals to tally up the score – take population balances and server profile into consideration.

I believe with those 3 fixes – we should see a smoother time in WvW. Also, people need to have patience – the smoothing out process takes time so hang in there, but give the guilds information and don’t penalize them when they try to move out of high pop servers.

Just 3 things need to be implemented:

1. Give guilds information. Separate the day into three 8 hour blocks (EU PRIME, NA PRIME, ASIAN/OCEANIC PRIME). Then rank the servers according to queue times during those 3 hour blocks. This gives guilds information on where to move and move away from high populated servers to less populated servers.

2. Don’t penalize guilds for transferring. All of the guilds progress and buff accumulation should go with them – don’t take this away when a guild wants to transfer from a high populated server in their Prime Time playing zone to another less populated server.

3. Match servers that go up against each other according to their prime time 8 hour playtime clock. Pit the Oceanics/Asian strong pop servers that have weak NA Prime pops against each other. Don’t just use point totals to tally up the score – take population balances and server profile into consideration.

I believe with those 3 fixes – we should see a smoother time in WvW. Also, people need to have patience – the smoothing out process takes time so hang in there, but give the guilds information and don’t penalize them when they try to move out of high pop servers.

One thing to take into consideration is server population. For example, IoJ and SoS are ranked very high in ANet’s rankings. However, NA prime these two servers have very little populations and no queues. But during Oceanic and Asian prime time hours they have very good populations.

So naturally, if we go up against other servers NA prime IoJ and SoS don’t do very well but during Oceanic and Asian prime hours IoJ and SoS clear the map. So the scores aren’t the only thing to look at. The time of play of their population should also be looked at.

Example, currently ET is blowing out both IoJ and SoS primarily because they got a 12 hour head start in taking over maps and getting all 3 orbs and then just holding. ET should not go up against IoJ and SoS – they should go up against a similar server that has a strong NA presence and weaker Oceanic and Asian presence. IoJ and SoS should go up against weak NA presence but strong Oceanic and Asian presence.

So its not just about the score but distribution and hour of play for the servers that go up against each other. This data is available by looking at queues and population averages during different parts of the day.

ANET’s server balancing is not perfect – but its prettykittenclose and on the right track. The only real mistake I see that they have made is not being able to transfer guild perks over with the moves (I haven’t tested out – this is from others posting). This discourages guilds to switch for free since they’d lose all accumulated guild benefits and buffs. If it was easy to transfer as a guild – we’d see more movement to less populated servers.

ANET has it so that people balance the servers so they can play and enjoy the game. I spoke to someone on Isle of Janthir (US Prime Time player) who had recently transferred off of HoD looking for shorter queue times and a server with overnight presence (a server with good potential) like Isle of Janthir. So yeah, people are transferring off – but its not an overnight thing and it takes time.

Limiting player’s time is a horrible idea. ANET just has to make it so that there are no penalties for transferring off populated servers – and as it stands today there is.

You are not going to have luck trying to recruit Asians and Aussies. They are entrenched in their current servers IoJ and Sea of Sorrows. Do yourselves a favor and YOU transfer instead of asking others to.

Volcanus.9135:

Fugly.5287:

This bug actually convinced me to upgrade my PC. I thought dropping two grand on gaming hardware would help, but it doesn’t. At least my FPS jumped from 10 to 40 in WvW gauntlets. Thanks 3770k!

Two grand and you only got a 30 frame increase???? What, did you buy a Mac or something. 2 grand gets you a super computer where i am from, you should be running 60 frames on ultra in WvW battles with a 2 grand computer.

I only paid 600$ for my rig and i run 60 frames on medium in a WvW battle, this price for your rig doesnt make sense for it’s output unless it is 10 years old.

Please don’t lie about prices you paid to look good, it is rather cheesy, OR you will look like an idiot who bought a pc from a store who overprices kitten because they know most people have kitten all knowledge of computers.

OR you will look like an idiot for derailing a thread trying to look cool for calling someone out on a public forum.

Back on topic. They need to fix this immediately…sitting on top of keeps and not being able to target ballistas cause no enemy player render is ridiculous. I also get the sense that some guilds are exploiting this by deliberately running around in great numbers all grouped together and then flanking where nobody sees them render until you are dead.

Also, it has nothing to do with a SSD. Its been deliberately put in place by ANet to satisfy the cry babies about lag by those with crappy computers.

Hi Revenance – looks like ya’ll are active in WvW. I’d like to introduce you to the official Alliance of Isle of Janthir. Come and take a look at: www.isleofjanthir.us

Good luck and see ya in game mate.

The official Alliance of Isle of Janthir can be found by going to www.isleofjanthir.us – we welcome all guilds of the Isle to come say hello and help organize for WvW. There are several guilds already signed up and we’d love to have all the WvW guilds come in and join in the defense of our borderlands and strategize the domination of everyone else’s borderlands.

Good luck and welcome – look forward to working with everyone and making this a successful operation!

There is an alliance for Isle of Janthir – if you can’t fill a group you can work with The Guardians through the official Isle of Janthir alliance. You can find the alliance on www.isleofjanthir.us or you can drop by and say hello at www.guardianhq.com

Cheers mate!

Try The Guardians – check out: www.guardianhq.com who are leading the way in Isle of Janthir. 10 Year old multi-gaming community – really a great and organized group. I think you’d love it. Good luck with your search!