Guild Wars 2

Has it ever had a way ? (couldn’t help myself after seeing this thread )

But yeah i think GW2 had its own vision (even tho a lot from gw2 is a copy paste from other games) but it’s just that it was not implemented properly

@kab i think that wow>gw2 and not only that they are not even in the same league but that’s not the issue .

What we know for sure is that Anet wanted to implemented some sort of trinity . After that we can only assume so take your pick :
- they thought that this trinity was going to be good but failed
- they were rushed and the product was released unfinished (which is something that kab thinks)
etc

I doubt that major changes will happen any time soon (if ever) because to design a trinity and trinity based dungeons probably takes a lot of time + the fact that ncsoft’s current priority is wildstar .

What we need is this : a modern day old wow (and the graphics in gw2 is definitely a start) + Trion’s improvements of wow in their game rift + your own vision ( but be sure not to stray off too much from wow+rift :P )
You have that you have the greatest game ever made

kab you are wasting your time with this random
he has no idea what trinity is or what it can provide .he wants skill, there’s plenty of skill involved in trinity and there are plenty of ways to require skill from each of the roles

" I support the dmg>all mechanic "
this made lol ^

I would be more interested to see a comment from Anet on the state of their trinity…and what are their plans for the future to address this problem…

Torca.5162:

FalconX.9287:

hehe another good post by kab
this is basically inspired from the newbie design from the fail D3 where you need to be efficient instead of overcoming hard content which is obviously the way to go . (i actually find it laughable that you have to be efficient in a game) – the thing is the only reason for it being like that is that the D3 developers got burned at launch for making the game extremely hard (and went from one extreme to another)

Sorry but I do not quite follow you right now. Are you referring that the concept of making everything dificult is laughable or “easy content”

Traditionally in any reasonable game with decent game designers the harder the content the better the reward.
In D3 it is quite the opposite it doesn’t matter how hard or easy the content is you get the same reward and it is all in the RNG . so obviously people are doing the easiest content because it is the most efficient because by doing it several times it increases the RNG odds – which obviously is dumb/bad game design/not fun (not what the players are doing but how the game is designed)

hehe another good post by kab
this is basically inspired from the newbie design from the fail D3 where you need to be efficient instead of overcoming hard content which is obviously the way to go . (i actually find it laughable that you have to be efficient in a game) – the thing is the only reason for it being like that is that the D3 developers got burned at launch for making the game extremely hard (and went from one extreme to another)

Kaaboose.3897:

digiowl.9620:

And so we are right back at altruistic DPS guardian, shout DPS warrior, and the odd control DPS mesmer for good measure.

I’m not following Owl, That would still work (if some control/support was mixed in via skills) but It would no longer be the meta. If everyone just bunched up and spammed dps as they do now they’d be werecked by the “weak” regualr cleave atatcks that need to be mitigated through control and support.

FalconX.9287:

Kaaboose.3897:

FalconX.9287:

“(And no, I don’t mean that everyone needs to be focused in one of these three roles, that’s not what anet wanted, They wanted players to do a bit of everything.)”

And this is why it is not working today . Sure players can do a bit of everything but you still need a main role player for every role
As said before why reinvent the wheel . improve on it.

So why not say to your party “Hey, My builds really good at support so I’ll be focusing on helping out my allies more then damging the boss.”
Or “Hey I’ve got some great control skills, Leave debuffing and interupting to me!”
Lastly “I’m not very good at control or support so can I focus on damging the boss please?”
You’ve got your guideline roles right there but if something goes wrong (And if the fights designed right it SHOULD) and our control player can’t perform his role for a time one of the other group members could take over that role for as long as nessesary.

The whole reason Anet wanted to get away from hard defined roles (Your character is Either Damage OR Support OR Control and don’t you dare thing about doing more then one!) was so that groups could be formed more easily.

So Kabuse . to cut it short
SNIP!

Problem is GW2 removed the trinity from RIFT and by doing so also removed a lot of the crazy fun which comes with it .

All of the snip was off topic! That fun can be had with Anets trinity just as much as with Rifts (If RIFT’s trinity is like wow’s, I dunno as I’ve never played it)

I don’t disagree with this and theoretically everything is possible
But we also have to be realistic about it

and lol @ randomfightfan who is actually posting trinity gameplay mechanics but thinks trinity is dumb

Kaaboose.3897:

FalconX.9287:

“(And no, I don’t mean that everyone needs to be focused in one of these three roles, that’s not what anet wanted, They wanted players to do a bit of everything.)”

And this is why it is not working today . Sure players can do a bit of everything but you still need a main role player for every role
As said before why reinvent the wheel . improve on it.

So why not say to your party “Hey, My builds really good at support so I’ll be focusing on helping out my allies more then damging the boss.”
Or “Hey I’ve got some great control skills, Leave debuffing and interupting to me!”
Lastly “I’m not very good at control or support so can I focus on damging the boss please?”
You’ve got your guideline roles right there but if something goes wrong (And if the fights designed right it SHOULD) and our control player can’t perform his role for a time one of the other group members could take over that role for as long as nessesary.

The whole reason Anet wanted to get away from hard defined roles (Your character is Either Damage OR Support OR Control and don’t you dare thing about doing more then one!) was so that groups could be formed more easily.

So Kabuse . to cut it short
Most of the design concept from GW2 is from RIFT which is not a bad thing .
I love it/and i’m highly supportive when newer games take the concepts from the oldies but goldies such as wow , rift and probably others and try to improve on it :

For example :

Questing in both wow and rift is bad . GW2 improved on it(by making fewer quests and the excellent personal story) which is great . in the first 2 you have lots of useless quests which are extremely boring (not to mention GW2 improved on the questing system itself which was also good ) but did badly with the experience !
I should not be punished if i want to lvl only through questing . Gw2 expects me to also craft and do wvw to lvl which i don’t want ! I should be able to only lvl through questing if i wanted to (and not be hard to do so )
Someone else should be able to level only through dungeons , and someone else should be able to lvl only through crafting ( which is excellent for alts ! ) or through wvw for example etc

Problem is GW2 removed the trinity from RIFT and by doing so also removed a lot of the crazy fun which comes with it .

“It’s called a trinity because if one of the 3 roles is removed from the equation it should no longer work.
If you ignore damage you should fail. If you ignore suport you should fail. If you ignore control you should fail. That is the way it should work. "

Yep this is correct .

“(And no, I don’t mean that everyone needs to be focused in one of these three roles, that’s not what anet wanted, They wanted players to do a bit of everything.)”

And this is why it is not working today . Sure players can do a bit of everything but you still need a main role player for every role
As said before why reinvent the wheel . improve on it.

digiowl.9620:

Kaaboose.3897:

digiowl.9620:

FalconX.9287:

- some roles are not fun when leveling – but there is an easy fix for this . give all classes the ability to play all the roles so that everyone can chose the role they like ! and also the ability to switch between the roles when doing dungeons or when doing the usual pve !

When i first heard about ANet’s “no trinity” claim, this is what i expected. Move some traits around and my character would shift from DPS or control to heal/support.

Don’t work tho, because ANet is deathly afraid of SPVP bunkers slowing down the spectator esport excitement.

These suggested improvements were to alter the way bosses deal with these skills rather then alter the skills themselves. That way SPvP would be uneffected.

This may work for control (defiant is a mob mechanic after all) but it will do jack all for heal/support.

Exactly . kabuse’s suggestions are only the tip of the iceberg . You would of course have to redesign skills (which in my opinion is definitely needed as some skills are just boring/useless)
And there is also the question of gear for tanks / dps / healers .General consensus is that we don’t like separate gear for each of the roles ( i don’t mind it if the choice is between separate gear or no trinity at all ) – but i’m sure Anet could come up with an innovative way of solving this

P.S. there’s lots of potential in many things the only issue is anet taking the right decision or not

“Sadly with the current system there isn’t much call for it as players are either getting hit for no damage or so much that healing won’t make a difference.”

Well said . My thoughts exactly

“I really think that having small attacks mixed in with the big ones to pressure a group to either use control or defensive support (like healing) is the way to go. Defintly keep bigger attacks to be dodged/avoided/interupted in there as well though!”

This is already a big part of the trinity and what Anet tried to do with the damage/support/control but they couldn’t because they are missing the building blocks tank , dps and healer .
Don’t fix something if it is not broken ! but instead improve on it

Traditionally there have been 2 major issues with trinity :
- people don’t know what that is and they are kitten ed if they don’t get their way – which is really a non issue because if you explain , give examples for the ones who don’t like to do their research on youtube problem fixed
- some roles are not fun when leveling – but there is an easy fix for this . give all classes the ability to play all the roles so that everyone can chose the role they like ! and also the ability to switch between the roles when doing dungeons or when doing the usual pve !

I have no idea what this redesign means in terms of game development and it is probably not easy but hey you want the big money give us the big fun! (And Anet has already shown they are open minded and inventive to pull this off for example with leveling through crafting . i wouldn’t mind at all to spend money on the cash shop so that i can level through crafting for an alt for example . or the fact that instances scale down the players for that instance)

and that is because like kaaboose is saying they don’t know how to make it work
in fact there hasn’t been an mmo that could prove the trinity wrong. you need roles , each member has to rely on the other member for him to do his job .
as a tank your role is to take the beating and protect the party
as a healer your role is to keep the party alive
as a dps your role is to burn down the enemies and also make the tank’s and healer’s life easier by killing everything faster

One party with the same 1 role can not succeed you need a party with all the roles

there’s a reason why wow has been so successful for so many years

Basically in GW2 everyone has more roles but nobody has a specific role of his own and in the end all the members in the party end up having no role at all

Now i have no issues if GW2 would create mechanics and unique roles for those mechanics with every role needing to rely on the other roles to be successful but at the same time being equally important in successfully defeating an encounter but there hasn’t been a game so far which could do this . so coming back to my point if you can make it great. but if not go back to trinity because 3 roles are better than 1 role

P.S. damage/control/support is just a weaker form of trinity
damage is dps
control should’ve been the tank i assume this role should’ve been to somehow control the mobs so that they don’t hurt the party but i don’t see how you can make this work while not breaking the fight ; ok i suppose with enough inventivity you could make it work but your are just unnecessarily complicating things when the simple tank is much easier to do
support = healer

I’ve only logged in to say:
Great stuff man ! i’m glad that people like you are still around in gw2 to say what actually matters
Anet had a great vision which i respect but they also messed up very fundamental things !
I’ve actually tried hard to like this game but i can’t play it only because i like Anet’s vision.
If you can’t implement a new trinity simply go back to TANK DPS and HEALER nobody will be upset , developers get it wrong too but at least the game will be fixed (and of course redesign the instances, bosses and stuff like that )

bumpity for visibility

I thought about posting this as i like many aspects of the game and i really wish i could enjoy it and play it more..
where to begin..honestly when i first started playing it i didn’t like and quit after 1 week or so ..i came back and somehow forced myself to play it again because i really liked some of the concepts in this game which i don’t see in other games..but really i don’t know what to make of it . hard to say if i like or if i don’t like it

1. leveling in this game is tedious and feels likes a chore . i don’t understand why this hasn’t been fixed all this time . the solutions are simple either add more heart quests or simply triple the xp for the heart quests and events

2. classes – this is probably the biggest problem and i don’t have a fix for it as i’m not a game developer but i can give a few examples . skills are shallow . i’ve played both warrior and guardian and they are boring and feel underpowered(probably because they don’t have an escape tactic ? )
i liked however the ranger especially the shortbow combo because it required a bit of strategy . quick shot for example could’ve went further and instead of firing 1 shot , firing 5 shots and rooting the targets while also jumping back . this would’ve been cool
Now i don’t know if there is such gameplay with the warrior or guardian but if it is , is not intuitive .
Another major issue is lack of roles which is the core fun of an mmo .. if you guys didn’t like tank dps and healer you could have implemented some other roles (as i read posts from some people around here)

3. events – are great but are not polished enough . some events are ok some are very hard , mobs respawn too fast etc . im not the kind of guy who complains about difficulty in games but some seem disproportionate with the rest . one example the bandit group event in kessex hills – i know it was meant to be done in group but i wasn’t expecting to one shot me and things like that
the other issue with events is that there aren’t people to do events with …most of the time i don’t find anyone to do events with (at least in the low lvl areas ) . some games deal with this by reducing the difficulty to solo them….

Anyway i hope these suggestions are at least taken into consideration

well i was hoping for a quick yes or no maybe with examples kind of thing .
i didn’t like the fact side quests had no depth it seemed they were there just to give u xp and thats it no story no nothing . and it was tedious to lvl until i reached the required lvl to do personal story quests. (i didnt have this issue in wow) wvw i liked it a bit but im more of a pve guy
i did a few dungeos but not sure what are the rewards for doing it or why do people them ? is it items ? better then what u can buy or ?

ok thanks but you haven’t answered my question
last time i played was in January i think and havent been uptodate with any changes or patches if any

I quit about a week or two after purchasing the game not even lvled my char to max cos i didnt like the lack of depth in questing and lvling in this game which was boring to me (tho i liked the personal story and the events) .
and also havent found a reason to do instances
Thanks for the info

The game is not bad and it definitely has improvements over wow however i don’t feel myself immersed into the game universe .
I liked the personal story quests but the rest is just boring . All i do is just run around maps to find quests or maybe do a bit of wvw . The main reason that i find it boring is that the quests don’t have any depth , a story, you just go to some npc who makes you kill some stuff or gather some things and that’s it move to the next .
I think wow’s success was partially because of the side quests with stories which kept you interested in leveling which this game is lacking.

So anyway i may still play the game once in a while when i’m extremely bored :P but i don’t feel it;s the kind of game that i can play daily for weeks or months

Rouven.7409:

In addition to Smoothy’s very good list – you can go to Lions Arch (simply go to your PvP button, press go to Heart of the Mist – you will see a portal there to Lions Arch pretty much in front of you) – and from there go through a portal to another capital city and explore the lower level zones.

Good Luck!

Thanks . now i can lvl lol…

Also did some wvw, xp is good but it can be a waste of time if your group isnt winning ^^

someone edited my topic title lol..i don’t dislike leveling my issue is that i dont find enough quests/there aren’t enough quests
yes i know about dynamic events (thats the only way i managed to lvl so far lol ) but still not enough
crafting i don’t like really ( didnt like it in wow either) i maybe try world vs world are there other ways ?

So i just started and i begin to dislike this game
Why is the number of quests so low ? In wow there are tons of quests with fallow ups quests here i barely find the freaking quests . how the hell am i supposed to lvl up ??
For example im lvl 20 and have done all the quests that i found in kessex hills area now all the quests that i find are lvl 22-23 which is too much for me

Am i missing something or this game simply sucks ?

thanks guys . in the end i made a worrior
thieves i read they aren’t good in pve and engineer umm doesnt seem my stuff

Volomon.9147:

This game has active PVP, there no class that’s going to be super OP because they would have to nerf it. Balance is a requirement to be in league matches a game that can not provide balance can not have competitive PVP or be considered for competitive PVP.

Ahh ok . what about a class that does well both in pve and pvp ?

Hi Guys

As title says help out a newb to the game