Guild Wars 2

I actually logged in just now solely to make a thread like this. I was thinking specifically about how disheartening it was when the initial decay changes made it so much more difficult for scouts to maintain participation but now that they have made further tweaks I’m back to just playing the game again never really having to give decay any thought . . .

Ppl are always going to be quick to criticize so it’s nice to take a moment to point out when someone is doing a great job or fixing an issue as well . . .

So again, thx for the good work in general and esp on decay

That’s not true though, pve guards do use staff. It is far more likely that the change to skill1 was made to balance the buffs to other skills . . .

But there is no rank requirement for wvw legendary armor . . .

It surprises me that ppl are upset about this, I’m not sure how they could have made it any easier. All I have to do is keep doing what I’m already doing and the stuff I need to make the armor just naturally follows . . .

Literally zero additional effort compared to what I’m already doing. It’s like it’s free . . .

I think the raiders that are complaining that pvp and wvw legendary armor cheapens their achievement are a bunch of entitled whiners, but even their position makes more sense than the op’s, to me . . .

Odokuro.5049:

I also heard that the sky is falling…

Many many Guardians would use a staff just to AA spam in WvW to get as many bags as possible. They would build super tanky, so they can stand in the front line and spam their staff’s AA. ANet seen this and cut the range down. It’s no ones fault except for those who abused this for profit.

Guardian is still a great class, you just need to put effort into getting bags now.

While it’s a nice thought, I doubt very very seriously that anet made a change to a weapon skill based on how it was being used in wvw . . .

JaNordy.6149:

WvW is not part of HoT, nothing about WvW requires HoT, WvW gives rewards based completely in and around WvW without any HoT content, and these REWARDS have NOTHING to do with HoT. They can block HoT stats because thats HoT, which they already did from stat selection. WvW ONLY ITEMS that have nothing to do with HoT is blocked if you dont have HoT.

You are correct, you are repeating yourself, which means your position has the same flaw it did the first time. If what you are saying here was true, you wouldn’t be upset because there would be no difference between an f2p player playing wvw and a HoT player playing wvw . . .

But in fact there is a difference. Wvw is part of HoT, and will soon be part of PoF. Specializations, HoT stats, gliding, shield generators, etc. are all a part of HoT and affect wvw . . .

What you are trying to argue is that they shouldn’t be part of HoT, and should be included — or not — independently of what version of the game you are playing. If you want to make your point you need to provide arguments to support that contention, not just say it isn’t true . . .

Ubi.4136:

SO, people who already have a commander tag it costs 150g. Those people already spent 300g to become a commander.

So, current commanders=450g to get the catmander tag total.

People who do not currently have tags it costs 300g.

So, new commanders get to be commanders and get the catmander tag for 300g total.

How the hell does this make any sense?

Ikr? This reminds me of back when they wanted us to pay for HoT after we’d already bought the core game even though ppl who bought HoT got the core game included! Someone should totally sue . . .

Idk, I see both sides of it. Making diamond repeatable would be really nice, but it also eliminates a time gate, and time gates are part of what makes nice things nice . . .

I feel like that is a legitimate complaint against gliding — it reduces the value of controlling the air shrines . . .

JaNordy.6149:

Do they pay you to post? WvW has nothing to do with HoT, that armor has nothing to do with HoT, getting the armor does not require anything from HoT. Comparing raids which is HoT content to WvW rewards that are not HoT content is laughable.

You’re not really making sense here. Isn’t your complaint actually that some wvw content is HoT — and soon PoF — content? If wvw had nothing to do with HoT then there wouldn’t be any difference between playing f2p, core or HoT in wvw . . .

I think what you’re trying to say is that wvw content shouldn’t be HoT content, not that it isn’t HoT content. And if that is your contention you should provide arguments supporting it, not just say it isn’t so . . .

I can only think of three arguments supporting your position, none of which seem very strong . . :

1) Anet should stop supporting wvw. As wvw is not tied to expansion content, nothing in the expansions should be allowed to affect wvw. As there would then be no difference in wvw whether you are f2p, core, HoT or PoF, anet should not continue to support it as it wouldn’t provide revenue to keep the servers running. Though I guess they could introduce advertising or something . . .

2) Players who enjoy the expansion content — which totally isn’t wvw content in any way — should be forced to support wvw content, even though their expansion content will not be allowed in wvw since that would unfairly advantage players who financially support the game they are playing, which is bad . . .

3) All expansion content should be included in wvw to all players gratis, bc wvw players deserve to have their experience subsidized by players who are willing to purchase the expansion for other game modes, bc reasons . . .

I don’t think your position actually falls into any of those categories bc they don’t really make any sense. But I can’t think of any other way to justify your position. So I am excited to hear your rationale

But until they fix the bug you’ll be able to repeat diamond which ppl who don’t get there before the fix won’t be able to do. If not for the bug I would sort of see the point. I still don’t think it would be a big deal but I do understand that some ppl want to be the ‘first’ to get things and it isn’t surprising that those ppl would gravitate towards a competitive game mode so okay, this should have been an expected reaction to the patch . . .

But since there is the bug, who cares . . ?

Idk, I agree it’s gotten a little silly, but I don’t really like the idea of stockpiling one or two currencies and insta-buying everything on release day either. Another simple problem without a simple solution . . .

The goal of making rewards active rather than passive is a good one to strive for, but I think the difficulties with implementation are why the passive system was originally chosen for reward tracks and followed for the pip system . . .

The most notable issues I see with the system in the op on a first reading . . :

1) It’s giving out way way way too many pips. Zerglings who individually contribute very little to their server would be done with the entire track by the end of prime time on reset night lol . . .

2) It further encourages blobbing/training, as already mentioned. But not just on offense any more, now the entire server is going to want to be there for that 80th yak on every keep . . .

3) It eliminates the loyalty bonus, and as minor as that bonus is it’s also the system currently in place to discourage jumping servers at every matchup . . .

And like I said that’s just on the first glance. There are good things about the idea as well, and like I said the goal of rewarding active, productive participation rather than just ‘being there’ is a good one too. But I don’t think there is any practical way to accomplish that goal . . .

Yeah it’s game-wide across all modes, def doesn’t have anything to do with adding gliding. It was just a thought. That I decided to post on a public forum. Without really considering it at all

I wonder if the increase in these instances lately might be an unintended consequence of changes they made to the maps in anticipation of bringing territories live . . .

I’m excited to see how this is going to work, but I love that we’re minutes after the announcement and no one has seen it in action, yet we’re already firmly entrenched in our positions on the subject lol . . .

Fade.8473:

that pvp armor that took me 50 games to get in season 4 is going to be legendary now?

lmao

Don’t get too excited. We haven’t seen how we make the gifts yet . . .

EDIT: Or what they cost, rather. I see they say we purchase them from vendors. I’m just saying, I’d expect a fair grind . . .

This is spectacular. It’s just like legendary without the skin? So the stat-swapping functionality will not be limited to when we are in wvw? I was not at all interested in the wvw ascended armor until this moment. Now I must get to grinding

Yes, it’s fixed . . .

I would imagine they’d prefer to keep exact details undisclosed to prevent manipulation, not that anyone would ever dream of doing such a thing . . .

I thought it was well established that server population was defined entirely by the number of players who participate in wvw . . .

More locked servers would actually be the solution since it results in smaller servers and therefore more options for re-linking, which is the only option available other than forced resettlement . . .

I agree this would be pretty awesome if the population warrants it. If it does I’m curious as to why they wouldn’t have done it already though . . .

I’m curious as to what ppl mean by ‘content’ in this thread. To me, the players make the content in wvw all anet does is provide a framework for that to happen, like dungeon master tools in a solo rpg. So the only thing anet can really do is balance patches, new maps or new shinies and all of those things carry the risk of irritating as many ppl as they excite . . .

Yeah, this happened for me last night as well. I wasn’t even getting the ‘no valid path to target’ message, it was just nothing, like I hadn’t even pressed the key . . .

This looks like it’s fixed? The timers I saw were all in sync tonight anyway . . .

Thx

Now if I can just figure out how I misspelled ‘kept’ to make the kitten kick in . . .

Ah, kkittenpt meaning to look at it right when I flipped something but I kept forgetting . . .

Got air to t3 last night as the bad guys were building siege on inner. Mwahahaha . . .

My lovely lovely yaks

I think wvw would be more fun if the max number of players from each server on each map was more limited, but there are a lot of problems with implementing that. Primarily, a smaller max number of players makes each afker or enemy alt account hurt that much more . . .

I’m also not a fan of the idea of making players wait for a minimum threshold of players from each side before the map opens, or giving each team the opportunity to close the map for everyone with a collective rage quit . . .

What I would be interested in is reducing the number of players from each server, but increasing the number of host servers — not links — in each skirmish. So instead of WvWvW we’d have WvWvWvW or WvWvWvWvW. Then have maps big enough that it would not be practically possible for any one server to actually control the whole map with the number of players they are limited to . . .

I don’t think it’s very reasonable to expect them to make the kind of effort it would take for such a major overhaul at this point though . . .

Yes, I spend a lot of time escorting yaks, which is why I was so deeply sad on the inside during the brief period that it was not a viable playstyle. I almost never go to eb though, and I don’t think I would spend much time escorting yaks there if I did. Humping yaks is an activity for when the map is mostly quiet, and I’m under the impression that eb is rarely quiet . . .

I mostly do hills, bay, fire or air, occasionally a tower and rarely garri . . .

The last few days I’ve noticed that the sup’s RI lasts about thirty seconds longer than the camp is ‘protected from capture’, so it is actually about 5:30 after it is flipped before you can flip it back. I feel like in the past those two timers were in sync and it’s just recently that they’ve become decoupled. Does anyone know if this is a bug or an intentional change . . ?

It’s not really a job that requires a lot of manpower . . .

No, the impt one, where running a yak did not give sufficient time on the decay timer to run another yak . . .

And now I am doing a happy dance. With my yaks. Bc my yaks love me

We’re starting to veer pretty far afield of the op’s original complaint at this point, but . . .

If you want to do something about afkers, it seems the simplest solution would be to adjust the actual afk timer. It is currently set at fifteen minutes, which seems ridiculously high to me. I’d say five is pushing it. Ofc the reason it is so high is bc all the ppl in those queued maps don’t want to lose their spot if they get up to eat or go to the bathroom or whatever. I would say it is reasonable to expect to be kicked while doing those things since it would allow more movement in the queue which would in turn make getting kicked and requeueing less of a hassle, but I’m betting the inevitable crying that would result from this change makes it a nonstarter . . .

As to your other point, I’m not sure we should really be prioritizing the ppl who are ‘most helpful’. Everyone is playing their own game that they all paid for — or not — and is entitled to play as they feel. That said, I’ve never understood why ppl who like to duel tend to do it in such high traffic areas then complain about being interrupted lol . . .

ThomasC.1056:

Gop.8713:

I suspect the decreased decay timers will actually result in an increase in this sort of activity. If ppl can’t maintain participation by playing the game, they will find other ways . . .

Words of wisdom…

It’s really sad to read that players are twisting the system in such a way. The thing is : while rewards are grind gated, WvW is unfortunately not appealing enough as itself for some players. These could do little tasks to keep their participation, but the change to decay timer punishes hardly those who don’t commit enough in the game mode.

This is a brilliant demonstration of how pushing a behaviour the wrong way can lead to total opposite results.

Just speaking from personal experience, I used to play for hours without breaking or giving any thought to participation. Now that I’ve always got one eye on that participation bar I’ll occasionally cap a camp and decide ten minutes afk wouldn’t be such a terrible idea. And occasionally I’ll come back after ten minutes and decide to just cap a camp and afk again bc why not . . ?

I still spend hours actively roaming as well, it’s just that now it feels a bit more grindy bc I’m constantly reminded of it by the timer . . .

I do think it’s good that I’m breaking like that now though, prolly better for me than just sitting here all day lol . . .

Svarty.8019:

Gop.8713:

I get tickets a lot faster than I get memories of battle anyway . . .

You do know you can buy bananas on the TP, right?

Yeah, but the things I’m getting with the tickets aren’t really things I’m willing to spend gold on. They’re just nice ‘thanks for playing’ type bonuses. I appreciate them, but I’ll take them when they come, no rush . . .

I suspect the decreased decay timers will actually result in an increase in this sort of activity. If ppl can’t maintain participation by playing the game, they will find other ways . . .

Oh don’t get me wrong, I still like shinies. I’m just not in any rush . . .

I get tickets a lot faster than I get memories of battle anyway . . .

Carrots and sticks are the same thing. If you offer a reward to someone for doing something, it becomes a punishment to everyone who isn’t doing it . . .

But anyway I thought the problem was ppl moving too much? Groups planning transfers to the same server at the same time so everyone gets in before it closes, transferring to linked servers to make the host server op and then moving again at next linking, etc. It is entirely possible I do not understand the issue though, I just wanted to scout

Sarrs.4831:

Okay so here’s the issue.

Either A
You let people pick where they go, in which case you’ll just end up with the exact same issue as players pick a server to stack.
Or B
You don’t let people pick where they go, in which case they end up massively sharded with nobody they know.

A doesn’t do anything.
B kills the game.

The current system appears to be a pretty good third option, to be honest.

But as you say, the two positions A & B aren’t the only available options. If you think of it like a spectrum with A & B as the endpoints, the ideal solution is going to be a lot closer to B than A, and certainly closer to B than we are now. It’s not like you can’t meet new ppl to play with . . .

I figured that out after week two, haven’t gone past mithril since. OTOH I always tell myself I’m going to stop at gold and I’ve never actually quit before I finished platinum, so perhaps I’m not so smart after all . . .

Thursdays are the day when I have the most free time to play, and after farming through gold and platinum today I am forced to concede Lahmia’s point from the other thread: The decay timer change has made it so much easier to farm participation while afk at spawn than by actually playing the game it would be foolish to continue to do otherwise. I will adapt to this new normal and try to stop complaining about it . . .

And there is the added bonus of more time for housework too, so win/win

That is correct . . .

And I’m going to say that’s from yet another poster who didn’t bother to read the thread first

LetoII.3782:

You were backcapping 2 players who had flipped the 2 sentries and the camp.. They saw you coming. The sentry reveals you on the minimap as you fight it. I’d have doubled back on you too xD
Bad pvp, bad reward. Best part of WvW over fighting NPC’s is that things like that DO matter.

If you’ll reread the post in question you’ll discover that nec and its sentries were flipped to the poster’s team before his arrival, and he hadn’t been spotted by a sentry since before he flipped sec. It is far more likely that he suffered the misfortune of being between enemy’s garri and one of the only remaining reliable means of avoiding decay . . .

Israel.7056:

So what happens when you’ve gotten all the rewards in WvW? Do you stop playing again?

Probably, yes. Why wouldn’t I . . ?

But I’m sure I’ll stop playing long before that bc the rewards are basically endless, flowing from so many different things: xp, loot, the thrill of victory, the challenge of defeat, meeting new ppl with every new linking, making a contribution to a larger goal, etc. . .

Sorry, what did that have to do with whether my activity should prevent decay . . ?

Vavume.8065:

Gop.8713:

I’m here to complain about the fact that the decay timer update discourages scouting . . .

You don’t need to sit in a tower to scout anymore, watchtowers will do the job, you can scout while roaming around and easily keep up participation, long story short, the days of sitting in a tower half afk to scout are over, and good riddance to that.

And if that is what we were discussing, your reply would have been relevant. That’s the nicest thing I can think to say :/

seabhac.5346:

Offair.2563:

Sarika.3756:

Given how different the reports are, I suspect it’s behaving differently for different people.

I assume the people that struggle with it are pve players not knowing what they can achiev without a tag spoonfed them.

I don’t think this is really fair either though. Players that accept shared participation would likely prefer to be running with the zerg and getting their own rewards, it’s just that someone has to stay back with a capped objective sometimes and there isn’t always someone who wants to. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that those players who stay back and accept shared participation are being ‘spoonfed’ . . .

But otoh shared participation shouldn’t be required as the only way that an active scout can avoid decay either . . .