Guild Wars 2

Tested and confirmed inside blue borderlands, entering a body of water removes bloodlust stacks.

I’ve played a mace/shield + gs warrior basically since launch and can confirm they’re “pretty good”. You’ll wreck bad/newer players, as they won’t or can’t dodge the stun. With that said, good luck trying to cleanse conditions against a good player.

It’s a very effective build versus power-based classes (though fights with thieves and mesmers can go either way), and you’re generally at a disadvantage versus condi thieves/engis/warriors — I think the build excels at pick-up-and-go roaming without a group. I’d opt for a hammer if I was roaming in a havoc squad.

Hi guys,

So I’ve been attempting Subject 7 with 5 gambits, and it’s been a struggle, chiefly because endure pain isn’t working. I’ve slotted both endure pain and defy pain, but S7 has been killing me despite the skills being active – what gives?

Initially I thought S7 was one-shotting me straight past the activation point for defy pain, but he manages to kill me even when I manually put endure pain up – has this been the case for anyone else this year?

Thanks.

Thank you, this post was both informative and helpful. When I grow up I hope I turn out just like Keira!

Condi X/Bow is still the way to go for SoloQ.

Skullcrack never left, I’ve been running it for almost a year now in WvW.

With that said, I don’t think it’s competitive with condi bow builds in tPvP — the nerf to Lyssa runes really hurt this build, and we’re more dependent than ever on cleansing ire. This is less of an issue in WvW, as our stats scale fairly well and we can compensate.

I’ll be switching to Condi Bow/X for tPvP — Ill miss you skullcrack!

Since when does gating abilities constitute horizontal progression? This isn’t modern warfare.

Seems pointless and annoying.

Gibson.4036:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Here are questions to determine if something is P2W:

1) Does it give you a statistical advantage in game?
2) Does it cost real money?
3) Is it only available to paying players?

If the answer to all three questions is “yes”, then it’s P2W.

Until you can manage to pass that test, your side of the debate fails.

1. doesn’t belong on that list. Many developers (or monetization managers) of P2W games are smart enough to create unrealistic, but still possible avenues to acquire the same things in game.

Put an item in the cash shop that gives an advantage, and then also put it on the loot table for a specific mob with an astronomically small chance of dropping. In a game with hundreds of thousands of players, you’ll have some who spent a week just killing that one stupid mob to get it, as well as some who just got lucky and had it drop. Defenders of the game can point to them and say, “See, you don’t have to spend any money!” and “Buying it from the store is just a convenience!” Of course, plenty of people will try to grind those mobs for a while, then give up and drop the cash to just get it over with.

In the end, P2W isn’t binary. “This game is, or isn’t P2W.” It’s a spectrum. The moment you introduce items that offer a game play advantage in the store, you’ve stepped away from the “not at all P2W” end of the spectrum and inched toward the “completely P2W” end. It’s all a matter of the tolerance levels for your player base. Americans and Europeans will tolerate less than Asian players, but we will tolerate some.

And some of us will crusade on forums arguing that if you can’t show it’s midnight black, it must be white.

You’re right and for your own health I’d just let it go: we all know no reasonable person would disagree with you; cynically, the conversation was successfully derailed.

Keep going, we’re almost at five pages. Everyone’s so much closer to being convinced, almost there.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

Then ofc you know I am going to ask for a legitimate source. We know that’s rhetorical b/c you don’t have one….ie you made that specific worded criteria up. I cannot help you if you do not understand simple concepts such as your own words vs someone else’s words.

See post above yours.

You’ve spent hours of your day arguing about the definition of “P2W” with strangers who you’ve now polarized, and for what? You haven’t convinced anyone and you’ve wasted your own time. But I’m sure Anet will send you a card in the mail come Christmas.

Also, you’re wrong.

russia.9057:

Jett.1239:

UrbanEMP.2654:

I’m not even surprised anymore how such ignorance and entitlement can warrant such a mundane topic for discussion.

Do you really not see an issue with a company selling solutions to artificially imposed problems? It may not be a problem for you, but surely there are droves of players who acted to buy the pass — it begets more content like this on the gem store, and that’s not good for any of us in the player base.

I don’t. There’s no subscription fee. The developers and employees of ArenaNet have the right to monetize the game in any way they see fit.

Is it worth $12.50 to you to not have to see a bunch of loading screens? No? Cool, then keep playing the game without a sub. Yes. Cool, then buy the airship pass.

You can’t have everything for free.

You’re missing the point, people are accusing this content of being below their expectations (and ArenaNet’s track record) in addition to smacking of manufactured opportunism.

If you’d like to claim that makes us “entitled” i’d just retort that the buying/selling process is a negotiation, and consumer expectations play a huge role in pricing/brand management. If the consumer doesn’t push back (bad PR, social media, boycotts) you can’t expect a company to offer a quality product moving forward.

Blanger.3162:

You know, I wanna’ just go whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa, six pages! of complaining about a situation that has been explained over and over to be a non-issue, so what if Anet sells passes, so what if it breeds more items in the gem store that are similar and the kitten sheep buy them, Anet is a business they need to turn a profit and you know what most of us are smart enough to see value in a item or if that item offers a enough convenience to warrant spending our money on, just like in RL if you don’t like the price, value or the convenience offered by a product you don’t buy it and the companies selling the item gets a very clear message that it wasn’t wanted or needed by their consumers.

Complaining might make you feel better but it comes down to sales, if Anet sells enough of the items regardless of people complaining they will do it again because they are here to turn a profit not win a popularity contest, sales/profit trumps just about everything in business and lets face the facts if they make a profit selling passes it was apparently the right choice for them and they will continue to make such items available because there is a demand for the product and profit to be made which helps keep a game like GW2 going.

It’s very simple if you don’t like the product don’t buy it, vote with your wallet the same as you do in real life, if your on the side that wins and the product goes away then you made a difference, if you loose then you were on the wrong side of the issue to begin with and were out voted by people who saw more value and convenience in a item than you did.

Trying to apply emotion, feelings, or any similar traits to a business transaction to make the seller look greedy or underhanded is unwarranted because for Anet this is a business to make a profit and supplying items that their customers buy is a big part of their after the box sales, trying to place a stigma on a item because it is based on a perceived inconvenience that has many free work-arounds does nothing to bolster claims and makes you look rather foolish or childish, the fact remains don’t buy the item if it doesn’t offer you some form of value, convenience, or price point.

People do that all the time, it’s called “brand equity”. Hell, “good will” is literally a term represented on a balance sheet. If you can’t tell the difference between (I keep using this phrase despite none of you knowing what it means) manufacturing consumer pain vs. solving consumer pain, well, I can’t help you.

Enjoy the kool-aid.

UrbanEMP.2654:

I’m not even surprised anymore how such ignorance and entitlement can warrant such a mundane topic for discussion.

Do you really not see an issue with a company selling solutions to artificially imposed problems? It may not be a problem for you, but surely there are droves of players who acted to buy the pass — it begets more content like this on the gem store, and that’s not good for any of us in the player base.

DarcShriek.5829:

Jett.1239:

DarcShriek.5829:

Jett.1239:

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

Buying and selling is a negotiation, and I’m suggesting we step our game up and push back on what they’re trying to feed us. Alternatively, enough negative PR could always have the effect on them determining it’s not cost effective.

enough negative PR would only shut down the game. And what would that achieve?
If you don’t want something, don’t buy it. I’m sure plenty of other people will. Other than that you deserve nothing except for the base content that was there when you bought the game and you are not entitled to anything.

I feel like you’re being disingenuous, but I’m not sure.

“Entitlement” or “I deserve” are alternative ways of framing expectations, and expectations in turn drive demand. If we collectively believe we deserve gem store updates that don’t solve artificial problems, chances are good we’ll see “better” gem store content.

Companies make market reactions to PR literally every day, this doesn’t require them to shut down — what in the world are you talking about, mind the hyperbole.

After reading your posts, I find it laughable that you would urge others to mind the hyperbole.

Nothing I’ve said is remotely hyperbole, manufacturing consumer pain and peddling the solution is shady even if you only trick a few people.

Their is no pain involved. It’s a video game, not life. If you find GW2 to be painful, you probably shouldn’t play it. Also, calling a slight inconvenience painful, is hyperbole.

In my industry, when you continue to play a game that is no longer fun to you, it’s considered addiction and you are advised to seek professional help. Either you consider pain to be fun, or you need help.

You’re accusing me of hyperbole and yet you’ve decided that 1. Playing a game that is no longer fun is patently an addiction and that 2. I am playing a game that is no longer fun. I’m not sure what industry you are in, but that is not how addiction works.

Furthermore, I was not referring to literal pain, but the well-established concept of consumer pain. Please educate yourself on this basic term before you accuse me of hyperbole.

DarcShriek.5829:

Jett.1239:

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

Buying and selling is a negotiation, and I’m suggesting we step our game up and push back on what they’re trying to feed us. Alternatively, enough negative PR could always have the effect on them determining it’s not cost effective.

enough negative PR would only shut down the game. And what would that achieve?
If you don’t want something, don’t buy it. I’m sure plenty of other people will. Other than that you deserve nothing except for the base content that was there when you bought the game and you are not entitled to anything.

I feel like you’re being disingenuous, but I’m not sure.

“Entitlement” or “I deserve” are alternative ways of framing expectations, and expectations in turn drive demand. If we collectively believe we deserve gem store updates that don’t solve artificial problems, chances are good we’ll see “better” gem store content.

Companies make market reactions to PR literally every day, this doesn’t require them to shut down — what in the world are you talking about, mind the hyperbole.

After reading your posts, I find it laughable that you would urge others to mind the hyperbole.

Nothing I’ve said is remotely hyperbole, manufacturing consumer pain and peddling the solution is shady even if you only trick a few people.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

Buying and selling is a negotiation, and I’m suggesting we step our game up and push back on what they’re trying to feed us. Alternatively, enough negative PR could always have the effect on them determining it’s not cost effective.

enough negative PR would only shut down the game. And what would that achieve?
If you don’t want something, don’t buy it. I’m sure plenty of other people will. Other than that you deserve nothing except for the base content that was there when you bought the game and you are not entitled to anything.

I feel like you’re being disingenuous, but I’m not sure.

“Entitlement” or “I deserve” are alternative ways of framing expectations, and expectations in turn drive demand. If we collectively believe we deserve gem store updates that don’t solve artificial problems, chances are good we’ll see “better” gem store content.

Companies make market reactions to PR literally every day, this doesn’t require them to shut down — what in the world are you talking about, mind the hyperbole.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

I think we deserve better.

We don’t deserve anything besides the game that we payed money for and bought.

Your opinion is a pretty common one, but I’ve never seen it outside of internet forums. You do realize the entire buying and selling process is a negotiation, right? Do you have any concept of how the economy functions or companies determine price?

Consumer expectations are a huge portion of pricing, if we collectively decrease our willingness to pay for kittenty content, guess what, the content is going to change.

Buying and selling is a negotiation, and I’m suggesting we step our game up and push back on what they’re trying to feed us. Alternatively, enough negative PR could always have the effect on them determining it’s not cost effective.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

If hordes of people paid real money for such a pass when it was frankly unnecessary in the first place, then they obviously wanted a 100% assurance that they would get in no matter what, and to them i say, sure have fun. Its their money to spend as they please.

See, i don’t need to ever open a BLC, and can go ahead and sell my almost 250 stack of them. i can also decide to buy some keys to see what i might get. That is my right as a consumer. Anet offers X and i decide if i want to buy it. If not, then I don’t. It doesn’t take anything away from the game for me, nor does buying anything give me some distinct “edge”. It just doesn’kittens

like me getting upset with Valve for selling some weapon in TF2 in their store. So what? Someone wants to buy something they can craft or get from a random drop then so be it. More power to them.

There’s not really a point in arguing if you really hold that opinion. Future content for the gem-store hinges on sales for current gem-store items, supporting the creation and solution of artificial problems (Captains Pass) logically leads to more of that being on the gem store.

It’s your right as a consumer to push back and claim that you want more for your money — it isn’t entitlement, it’s the very essence of a buyer-seller relationship. I think we, the playerbase of GuildWars2, deserve better than this. Agree or disagree, but supporting content like this begets content like this.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

ArenaNet isn’t treading on pay2win (again, arguable depending on how you define pay2win), they’re working the questionable micro-transaction invest-2-play business model that mobile gaming is heading towards. Bonus feature paid items (like the pick) are indicative of this and something I hope they avoid in the future.

When the opposition to it is a really small percentage you would probably have a better chance trying to find a new perfect MMO than hoping that a similar item will never be on the gem store again.

I think Guildwars2 is a good game with a solid engine, I question the business behind the gem store. They’re clearly maximizing their return on effort, but I think it leads to poopy gem-store items and I think we deserve better.

I’m raising a fuss about the Captain’s pass because it solves a problem you didn’t have yesterday. “You” refers to those individuals who buy it, as you personally have made abundantly clear you’re above the mild inconvenience.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Hey, i’m not going to read through 5 pages of complaining since I know i’ve already seen it 100000 times so far since the start of this event. All I’m going to say is this: You know what I’ve enjoyed using since the start of this event? The Airship. Know how i keep getting in there to use it? Airship passes that DROP FROM BAGS FROM DOING THE EVENT. Seriously, can this be a non-issue already? Please.

And had you managed to communicate that to the hordes of people that bought the paid pass and have set the precedent “this is ok”, it would be a non-issue.

I’ve played those games too, and in general I avoid them because I dislike pay2win — we could get into an even lengthier debate about what constitutes “pay2win” in a game that focuses on horizontal progression, but I imagine we’d not change our opinion or be any happier.

I personally don’t consider the creation of artificial consumer pain a legitimate business practice. You might not believe it’s a legitimate pain, but I’m sure ArenaNet has sold at least one pass as the result of artificial pain they introduced — I think that’s kittenty.

ArenaNet isn’t treading on pay2win (again, arguable depending on how you define pay2win), they’re working the questionable micro-transaction invest-2-play business model that mobile gaming is heading towards. Bonus feature paid items (like the pick) are indicative of this and something I hope they avoid in the future.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

I’m not comfortable with gem-store items introducing functionality not available from unpaid/unconverted currencies. Many users said exactly what you said, but now we’ve come to the Captain’s Pass and it reopens the issue all over again.

It’s not like there isn’t a dearth of real problems Anet couldn’t be creating paid solutions to.

What functionality is unavailable for you? Can you not get a bunch of pickaxes from a vendor? Can you not use an asura gate and travel to a city hub? What was removed exactly?
And what are these real problems that they could be monetizing with a permission from you?

Does the company send you a paycheck, or do you just like the way corporate milk tastes?

I’ve answered both of these questions already, we’re going in circles.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

I’m not claiming I’m inconvenienced, you’re missing my point.

I’m suggesting ArenaNet created what some players are going to find an inconvenience (surely you agree some do, though you personally are not), and offered a paid solution to it. This begs the question: did Arenanet willfully leave out vendors, or did they figure out how to monetize AFTER they left out vendors? Not particular inspiring!

Following the Watchwork pick, it sets an especially bad precedent and paves the way for similar anti-consumer gem store purchases down the line. I think we should absolutely high five ArenaNet and buy gem store items when they solve real problems, not ones of their own design.

How is the convenience of an over-priced pick an anti-consumer move exactly?
When the game turns even remotely pay to win, complain then. Now you’re complaining about a pick that won’t pay off for over 10 years and about a 5 second load screen.

I have two issues with the pick, my minor issue is that it opens the slippery slope for superior gem store items (which will be debated forever). My second issue is more concrete in that the pick smacks of double dipping, which I believe is anti-consumer. It targets a group of individuals who were satisfied with their infinite pick, but are now inclined to pick up their “infinite pick+1 now with even more sprockets.”

If there weren’t an abundance of non-questionable items they could be launching I wouldn’t be complaining, why open up your brand to question? Seems kittenty to make a quick buck at the potential expense of consumer good will.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

Coming off the watchwork pick I’ve been especially worried.

permanent pickaxes were on the gemstore for a long while now. If you look at buying it with gold it won’t pay off for around what? 10 years? I don’t see why it is so evil to sell convenience for people.

I’m not comfortable with gem-store items introducing functionality not available from unpaid/unconverted currencies. Many users said exactly what you said, but now we’ve come to the Captain’s Pass and it reopens the issue all over again.

It’s not like there isn’t a dearth of real problems Anet couldn’t be creating paid solutions to.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

It’s not a complaint so much as an observation, but ArenaNet willfully INTRODUCED a minor inconvenience and IMMEDIATELY offered a paid remedy to said inconvenience. This is shady business practices 101, inevitably some users are going to pay for it.

I am all about paid gem store purchases, but not when they solve an artificial problem.

Your opinion is toxic and will only hurt you/ the player base in the long run.

Minor problem that would have been in game anyway solved with a ticket that you can get with a drop. It’s a solution for a problem that is only going to be live for a few months. Oh such an inconvenience to go trough a 5 second loading screen!

What I find funny is that people complain about the smallest of things more than they complain about a profession and level boost to 9/10 of the maximum in pay to play MMOs.

I’m not claiming I’m inconvenienced, you’re missing my point.

I’m suggesting ArenaNet created what some players are going to find an inconvenience (surely you agree some do, though you personally are not), and offered a paid solution to it. This begs the question: did Arenanet willfully leave out vendors, or did they figure out how to monetize AFTER they left out vendors? Not particular inspiring!

Following the Watchwork pick, it sets an especially bad precedent and paves the way for similar anti-consumer gem store purchases down the line. I think we should absolutely high five ArenaNet and buy gem store items when they solve real problems, not ones of their own design.

TChalla.7146:

Jett.1239:

TChalla.7146:

Jett.1239:

Draygo.9473:

Guys from a lore standpoint LA was destroyed. I think it would actually be silly if the playerbase didn’t have any inconvenience or consequence in game to the fact that LA is gone.

The issue isn’t the lack of convenience, it’s the artificially imposed inconvenience and paid gem-store answer ArenaNet immediately created.

It’s morally dubious at best.

I don’t see it as morally dubious at all. I also don’t see Lion’s Arch being taken away (either temporarily or permanently) as an inconvenience. I personally found Lion’s Arch to be fairly inconvenient in and of itself.

And that’s fair, but objectively a number of users (probably a not insubstantial number) are going to purchase the pass because they miss the amenities Lions Arch offers. Many won’t, but it’s naive to think this decision wasn’t made with the intention of parting some hasty individuals from their cash.

I don’t think it’s naive at all.

Honestly, I think Anet wanted to do something on a grand scale, and what could be more grandiose than blowing up a major place? Now, of the major places to blow up, which one would be the most balanced to blow up? Obviously, it’s the one that has no racial ties to it. Could you imagine the rage that would occur if Divinity’s Reach was the target? Or The Grove? Or Rata Sum?

Lion’s Arch was the target that made the most sense with the least player impact. Most of the amenities of Lion’s Arch were moved to Vigil. The rest can be accessed at any racial city/area/whatever you want to call it. It’s a minor inconvenience for what I think was a great event.

The above is my rationalization for what has transpired. If that makes me naive in anyone’s eyes, that’s fine by me. I’ve been called worse.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to say you were naive! In fact, if not for the “paid” Captain’s pass I agree with you.

It’s unclear if content was left out of Vigil Keep prior to designing the Captain’s pass, but there’s enough uncertainty to make me perceive ArenaNet (in this particular instance) in a poor light. Coming off the watchwork pick I’ve been especially worried.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

And that’s fair, but objectively a number of users (probably a not insubstantial number) are going to purchase the pass because they miss the amenities Lions Arch offers. Many won’t, but it’s naive to think this decision wasn’t made with the intention of parting some hasty individuals from their cash.

Same with the armours darling. How do you think this game would survive if they put nothing alluring on the gem store at all?

Darling? Please, condescension doesn’t suit you.

I expect them to get by the same way they have since release, if you were curious their earnings report was fantastic. Things like the watchwork mining pick and suspect captain’s pass I can’t support.

Solve a real consumer pain like a “skin wardrobe” and I’ll gladly throw money at it.

Draygo.9473:

How do you know the intent of Arenanet staff?

I would have thought it apparent, clearly I’m in the minority.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

Yes.

As it stands, the evidence points to ArenaNet deliberately leaving NPCs out of the “replacement” Lions Arch facility. If your scenario were to occur, then you could attribute their decision to oversight or a desire to get individuals to use the other main city instances.

So then your complaint is the fact that you can go around minor inconvenience that would still have been caused by buying a pass used to keep a game that has no subscription fee alive?

It’s not a complaint so much as an observation, but ArenaNet willfully INTRODUCED a minor inconvenience and IMMEDIATELY offered a paid remedy to said inconvenience. This is shady business practices 101, inevitably some users are going to pay for it.

I am all about paid gem store purchases, but not when they solve an artificial problem.

Your opinion is toxic and will only hurt you/ the player base in the long run.

TChalla.7146:

Jett.1239:

Draygo.9473:

Guys from a lore standpoint LA was destroyed. I think it would actually be silly if the playerbase didn’t have any inconvenience or consequence in game to the fact that LA is gone.

The issue isn’t the lack of convenience, it’s the artificially imposed inconvenience and paid gem-store answer ArenaNet immediately created.

It’s morally dubious at best.

I don’t see it as morally dubious at all. I also don’t see Lion’s Arch being taken away (either temporarily or permanently) as an inconvenience. I personally found Lion’s Arch to be fairly inconvenient in and of itself.

And that’s fair, but objectively a number of users (probably a not insubstantial number) are going to purchase the pass because they miss the amenities Lions Arch offers. Many won’t, but it’s naive to think this decision wasn’t made with the intention of parting some hasty individuals from their cash.

Mirta.5029:

Jett.1239:

The issue isn’t the lack of convenience, it’s the artificially imposed inconvenience and paid gem-store answer ArenaNet immediately created.

It’s morally dubious at best.

So if there was no airship pass, but just the inconvenience you would be fine with it? Okay ^^

Yes.

As it stands, the evidence points to ArenaNet deliberately leaving NPCs out of the “replacement” Lions Arch facility. If your scenario were to occur, then you could attribute their decision to oversight or a desire to get individuals to use the other main city instances.

Draygo.9473:

Guys from a lore standpoint LA was destroyed. I think it would actually be silly if the playerbase didn’t have any inconvenience or consequence in game to the fact that LA is gone.

The issue isn’t the lack of convenience, it’s the artificially imposed inconvenience and paid gem-store answer ArenaNet immediately created.

It’s morally dubious at best.

As for utility, I don’t think anyone will deny that the pass is useful.

But there’s a lot of debate centered on whether or not it sets a dangerous precedent for future gem store purchases.

Saturn.6591:

I really should stop reading this thread. It makes me want to facepalm harder than my head would be able to bear. Some people really will put on tinfoil hats and complain about anything, just for the sake of complaining; no matter how ridiculous the “reason” actually is.

IF, and that’s really one big “if”; IF I would really need to run around between bank, TP, mystic forge, dungeon vendors, laurel merchant and guild commendations trader like 100 times in one or two hours… IF that would be the case, it would be faster now than it would have been in LA. This due to shorter distances and less/shorter loading screens.

And now excuse me; I need to convince my hands to not move towards my forehead with increased speed.

You think it’s a conspiracy that a business manufactured a new form of “consumer pain” and immediately released the paid cure to said pain? Inconceivable.

darkace.8925:

Person A
“I always took Highway X to get to work. Then one day the city decided to change Highway X to Tollway X. Now I have to pay for the same convenience I used to get for free. Sure, there are other alternative routes to get me to work, but these are far less convenient. I’m not happy with this change.”

Person B
“This isn’t a big deal because I don’t think it’s a big deal. It’s not like you have to take the highway to get to work. Besides, you should be happy to pay the tolls; that money goes to support your local government.”

You’re wasting your breath, many people here feel some strange urge to stick up for a corporation at their own expense. ArenaNet is a business and will continue to do stuff like this until people stop buying the product.

Is it really up for debate that this is a cash grab? There’s a reason your PvP —> Lion’s Arch waypoint doesn’t have crafting anymore, and it’s to entice users to buy the airship pass.

…is this even a question? The only question is if you’re ok with it.

BolshoiBooze.3406:

Blackhat.4016:

I agree with everything except for this:

“however, “good” warriors are generally at a disadvantage versus equally skilled players on other classes, and this is a point that’s rarely addressed.”

You still see warriors at the highest level of tPvP (where the “good” warriors are) and I can tell you they’re still pretty dominant. The gap isn’t as big but they’re definitely not at a disadvantage.

I’ve talked to a lot of good players/watched their streams and all of them agreed that warriors are still too strong, even at their level of play which basically means there is no disadvantage.

A lower skill ceiling doesn’t necessarily mean you’re at a disadvantage, only that it takes less skill to play the profession at the highest level.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to the next patch and hope they nerf the right things and/or increase the skill ceiling.

To add to this, most of the top PvP teams even use 2 warriors (out of 5 total players).
I couldn’t agree more with the OP with regards to balancing to the lowest common denominator, but I really don’t think warriors are at a disadvantage at high levels of PvP. On the contrary even, they’re arguably still one of the strongest classes at that level (the most used class in any case).

I can’t speak to the efficiency of warriors in tpvp as I predominately play WvW and duel — are the top tpvp variants running bow?

I guess the question is are we being balanced around WvW roaming/dueling meta or the sPvP meta — they function totally differently. The warrior is an a much better place in its functional pvp role then it is within Obsidian Sanctum fights.

I’d be thrilled if the skill ceiling went up, but I’m not sure we’d see anything that extreme until an expansion was released. An alternative adrenaline skill, and an overhaul of sustain/adrenaline?

Edit: I also recall that the warrior buffs were put in place to address the condi-heavy meta, but within WvW/OS all of the warriors toughest fights are against condi-using opponents PU, condi nades, D/P etc.)

As far as rush goes, what if they changed it from a point-strike to a 360* cleave? Alternatively, does fiery rush from the ele flamesword suffer the same problem? If not just institute that mechanism.

I’ve always been of the opinion that nerfs/buffs should be done in small increments and not all at once; clearly my opinion does not intersect with reality…

I guess it’s a question of who are we balancing around? This puts your average warrior in a more reasonable place versus other classes, but the meta-level continues to hurt.

Half serious, though I think the point stands: if there was a disaster on the Canadian border and Canada refused to send aid AND killed US citizens fleeing into the country wouldn’t there be an eventual reprisal?

It seems like a ridiculous mechanism: turning from us during a time of crisis is enough on its own to merit retribution, but actively killing those who approach their gates? I’ll be disappointed if we don’t counterattack when we’re able — I believe this constitutes an act of war.

Example Warrior Skill Cap vs. Other Classes: http://imgur.com/sgDeBnP

It’s not a secret that many, many players feel warriors deserve a nerf, but I’m not convinced they want it for the right reasons. I threw together a quick graph (it’s quite rough and exists just to illustrate a simple point — don’t read too much into the numbers) that I believe shows the main problem with warriors: it’s hard to tell “bad” warriors from “good” warriors, and “good” warriors are often at a disadvantage.

“Bad” and “Average” players can hop on a warrior and do quite well, they’ll generally destroy other classes of the same skill level (not always, but I believe this is a large point of the anti-warrior sentiment); however, “good” warriors are generally at a disadvantage versus equally skilled players on other classes, and this is a point that’s rarely addressed.

It’s frustrating, because I can appreciate that the majority of players are frustrated by warriors, but I’m not sure we should be balancing a class around the lowest common denominator. Warriors are quick to start, but I believe the skill cap of the class is among the lowest in the game.

Bear on the job.6273:

Furajir.3815:

When all condi users just need toughness to combat power.

And all power users need is condi cleanse (or -condition duration food…) to combat condis.

The difference being toughness is universally useful for a condition build, and condition reduction food is prohibitively expensive and useless against ~50% of the player base.

Furajir.3815:

Jett.1239:

Furajir.3815:

You boys need to stop worrying. With the addition of new rune sets, 2 sigil slots and how ferocity will work, you will barely notice that 10%.

Also note, it’s not just us, thieves and other classes that rely on full glass will be hit harder, and, that means they won’t be as much of a threat to you.

So chill, still going to be able to steamroll other players.

Just because this happens to be a discussion on the warrior forum doesn’t mean we interpret this as a warrior nerf; in fact, it’s probably been more efficient to run a condition roaming build for a while now — this is likely a buff for the better warriors out there.

Doesn’t mean it’s not a totally unwarranted band aid that demonstrates that ArenaNet doesn’t understand the state of the game.

People are literally crying that it’s a direct nerf, and they act like it’s just to us, when it’s across the board. And you understand the state of the game so much that you give in and play condi?

Condi builds are a joke, and I can post at least 10 clips of me destroying condi players with pure power non zerker based just from today’s roaming experience which is also based around no zerker stance, and no Melandru, but Hoelbrak and bulls charge.

Crit dmg will be hit now, more changes will be made, and trust me, condi has had it’s day in the Sun, but it’s for bad players, lazy players, and it will get the change it needs in the future.

So please, give in, play condi, and I’ll be along shortly to collect your bags.

I don’t play a condition warrior either, but I’m not going to lie to myself and claim that condition builds don’t put up more a challenge than traditional power builds (see: condi nades and condi stealth/clone builds) — I’ve been expecting a nerf imminently for it, so I agree with you 100% that something is going to change.

Furajir.3815:

You boys need to stop worrying. With the addition of new rune sets, 2 sigil slots and how ferocity will work, you will barely notice that 10%.

Also note, it’s not just us, thieves and other classes that rely on full glass will be hit harder, and, that means they won’t be as much of a threat to you.

So chill, still going to be able to steamroll other players.

Just because this happens to be a discussion on the warrior forum doesn’t mean we interpret this as a warrior nerf; in fact, it’s probably been more efficient to run a condition roaming build for a while now — this is likely a buff for the better warriors out there.

Doesn’t mean it’s not a totally unwarranted band aid that demonstrates that ArenaNet doesn’t understand the state of the game.

laokoko.7403:

There’s only like 1000 mmorpg out there. I think in most of them, the TP plays a big roll.

So in other games, you need to rely on the TP also.

But in GW2, the difference is it’s more profitable to play the TP than the other aspect of the game. There is only 1000 other mmorpg out there, I would say it is one of the few similar to Diablo(before they cancel the auction house), you are much better sitting infront of the TP and neglecting the other part of the game if you want to be rich.

Yeah, I was going to make this point as well: a free market system is great in many aspects, but it’s just not fun for most players. There’s definitely something lost when you can’t count on something shiny dropping — it’s the same mistake that Diablo 3 made, and it’s what essentially killed their game.

I’m not calling for the removal of the TP, hardly, but instead suggesting that Arenanet increases the number of account-bound shiny drops. Finding a named exotic weapons is one of the most exciting, universal themes in RPGs, it’s a shame that that’s missing in Guild Wars.

Carpboy.7145:

Ill still be good ol Ham/GS. Plus you know, Mjolnir happened.

Its only a 10% dmg nerf in MAX GROUP SETTINGS. That means 25might/vuln/banners/spotter/etc. Even if it was a flat “youll have 10% less crit dmg” you’d have to have 100% crit chance for it to be a 10% dmg nerf. Worst case scenario youll have to do an extra auto to down someone. (Not so much tho now that i can have impact/air on my hammer now)

All in all, we need to wait for Tuesday to see how this affects things before crying how OP condi is.

I’m not sure anyone is crying about how OP condition is, but it’s needed an adjustment for almost as long as perplexity runes have existed — this is just going to exacerbate an existing problem.

Second to God still plays, I see him roaming in WvW often.