Guild Wars 2

1. Ranger
2. Mesmer
3. Ele

Prysin.8542:

mistsim.2748:

Prysin you either have a very vivid imagination young man, or play at a very low tier. No serious gvg guild will use a periphery ranger. They can give it a shot but there is no reason to keep using one. GS shatter mes, glass thief, dps warrior with hammer/gs or even rifle fulfill the assassin role much more effectively. All these specs output more cc and more single target damage while having better survivability.

I ran various quickness based builds before the nerf and showcased an effective sb power build. But these builds aren’t viable now. Other profs output way more single target damage. GS isn’t viable either because its burst is too telegraphed.

I play in T2/3 EU. Desolation is a former T1 server, but lost many of its big guilds, the leagues didn’t help either, and are still rebuilding from this. So no, i don’t play in very low tier as you seem to assume.

Your knowledge of rangers seem somewhat limited, as you would have known that SB didn’t get the proper attack rate from quickness before the nerf. A bug with the animation/casting made it slightly slower then it should have been. There was attempts to fix this, but they didn’t work out very well.

My build isn’t an assassins build, its a frontline 20-30 man guildgroup melee build. Not some farfetched ranged assassin.

SB is horrible when it comes to power gear, while it was better then LB before LB Buff, it is now extremely inferior in terms of direct damage.

If you want burst assassin, get quickness and signet build using Signet of the Wild and entangle to make sure all your sword strikes hit. Yes sword mainhand, which happens to be the strongest weapon rangers got.

Please tell me how often you manage to read a single ranger coming at you with a GS, poised to use Maul, in a zergfest? Hell, make a video of it so i can see whether or not you actually have the slightest of chance to spot a single profession coming at you with a burst in the midst of a zergball full of particle effects and chaos.

Actually I don’t think Mistsim’s knowledge about ranger is limited and i’m pretty sure he remembers the so called animation glitch/fix pretty well.

The thing is that back then, when he was showcasing what i’ll call the “quickness power build” ,which was pretty good and fun btw ( not “A-net fun” but still^^) :

- Quickness was 100% and not 50%
- We had the minor beastmaster trait giving us quickness on pet swap
- SB Range was 1200

As i agree that the animation fix was irritating, it’s not what killed the quickness ranger it’s every nerf around…

Terravos.4059:

Every time I see a ranger ask for pets scaling off our stats, I cry a little inside..Its like they don’t know they’re asking for basically a huge nerf to themselves.

While i agree on the pet scaling being a bad idea, i still don’t understand why ranger has to share his base dmg with his pet.

WvW wise you generaly have to choose between being a pseudo dmg dealer or being a beastmaster. if for the second case the pet having independant stats is a real asset, for the first case u will probably end using your pet on passive for buff.

So why the pet dmg bonus on the beastmastery line doesn’t scale differently, starting from very low dmg to end at actual dmg ? It would allow to level up the dmg coef on our weapon skills, without breaking balance

Xaylin.1860:

Jos.8793:

Yeah right… But you know i don’t think that my lvl 27 mesmer with blue/Green gear have high precision, however GS1 is enough to trigger vigor ; i don’t think it can be qualified as “active fighting”…

GS1 is good at triggering it because it is channeled attack with multiple hits. Won’t work on any other weapon (maybe Sc3 to some extent). Especially Phantasm Mesmers do not constantly smack their foes. Neither do Condition Mesmers because they lack a reaonsable AA.

You won’t gain Vigor when running away.
You won’t gain Vigor within stealth.
You won’t gain Vigor when doing anything else than hitting your enemies.

The only more active way of applying Vigor is using a skill which grants Vigor.

I think that sword can also easily trigger it but I agree on the fact that u must be fighting or not running away to trigger it, and i think that 100% endurance regeneration instead of 50% is a pretty fair compensation. Don’t get me wrong, i do not ask for a mesmer nerf, I think this skill is fine as it is.

The thing that bothers me is that while seeking build diversity this nerf (and most of the 10th december adjustements) will once again put the ranger in a cornered bunker/regen/beastmaster playstyle

Xaylin.1860:

Jos.8793:

Fun fact :

yesterday as i was bored I played a level 27 mesmer alt. I was wondering why he had perma vigor and i saw that he has a minor adept trait which give 5s vigor on critical with kitten cooldown.

So warrior -> signet of stamina : 50% endurance regen
Mesmer -> 5 pts in critical tree : perma 100% endurance regen

I think that guardian also have a similar trait, so why is our endurance regen op ???

I know that mesmer and guardian don’t have easy speed access but now there’s runes for that…

Fun fact everyone knows about and people have been raging about since the preview was released. However, Devs already said that they are also going to change those traits (Elementalist, Guardian, Mesmer).

Things to keep in mind: Those traits require active fighting and high precision. Passive endurance regeneration does not require anything. Kit swapping at least does not require high precision.

There probably has not been any announcement regarding Guardians and Mesmers because they basically have close to no other source of endurance regeneration. Nerfing those traits or moving them up too high in the traitline will drastically limit build diversity because the traits will come with too high opportunity costs for defensive, supportive or condition based builds.

Speed is in now way related to Vigor.

Yeah right… But you know i don’t think that my lvl 27 mesmer with blue/Green gear have high precision, however GS1 is enough to trigger vigor ; i don’t think it can be qualified as “active fighting”… I can also add that the minor traits we have un several trees are pretty underwherlming.

For the speed, i was talking about it cause guardian and mes mers often talk about it as a compensation which is somehow understandable (“we have to dodge, cos we have low mobility”)

Fun fact :

yesterday as i was bored I played a level 27 mesmer alt. I was wondering why he had perma vigor and i saw that he has a minor adept trait which give 5s vigor on critical with kitten cooldown.

So warrior → signet of stamina : 50% endurance regen
Mesmer → 5 pts in critical tree : perma 100% endurance regen

I think that guardian also have a similar trait, so why is our endurance regen op ???

I know that mesmer and guardian don’t have easy speed access but now there’s runes for that…

Substance E.4852:

slingblade.1437:

Ranger certainly has lots of problems and I agree to the extent that they should be deadly with bows, but the RANGE in Ranger is not a reference to range of attack, it’s in reference to a fighter who roams the woods and fields.

The name is arbritrary and only tacked on because there was a Ranger in Gw1 that only used bows.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger

At one point in development, according to The Making of Guild Wars 2 book, the ranger profession of the original Guild Wars was split into many different professions, notably the warden and the marksman. Eventually, with only marksman remaining, who only possessed only the aspect of ranged weaponry, was combined with already scrapped elements of warden and beastmaster, and renamed the result as ranger for the sake of the original series.

Sorry but english kinda hard in the morning

Does it say that ranger class is the compilation of some leftover / abandoned elements gathered into making a class which would seem familiar to GW1 player ?

It would explain why our trait trees look so empty and why it’s so hard to find a role in team play …

It actually reminds me twins movie : “I’m a genetic garbage”

Luxie.3617:

It’s crazy that they’re nerfing that, compared to what other classes have as similar traits/utilities compared to the ranger and they nerf the ranger’s? warriors can have 2x endure pain, while we have to put 30 into a trait to make signet of stone have the same effect on a longer cool down? I just can’t understand the justification to the constant stream of nerfs to the ranger, the game’s balance is quickly becoming a joke : / The Dev team simply can’t be listening or playing a ranger in wvw/pve

On the warrior side, u can also add perma 50% endurance regen, immunity to immo/Cripple/Chill, great health regen even without healing power and +25% run speed while having those 2 endure pain … Sometimes it feels like they don’t need to choose

Vaxx.3178:

lchan.2169:

I run high condition damage ranger with two bears. I can safely solo a champion. But it can only be done with bears.

I can solo champs with a Drake and Spider. Almost every open world PvE Champ can be soloed.

+1

Champions aren’t relevant, i soloed some of the queendale’s ones few hours ago with panther/fernhound and full berserker gear. (On a side note I was testing one of Brazil’s dps build which is truely amazing for champs and pve in general)

However it’s true that pets are close to useless in wvw large fights which is sad

JonPeters.5630:

Some ranger discussion….

Natural Vigor
Starting here because I think it requires the most discussion. This, simply put, was a wildly overpowered trait. I tell people not to compare one profession to another, but Engineer has this trait as a major grandmaster. It was simply too easy to put 5 points in this line and then be able to dodge every 6.67 seconds. As it stands after the change this still allows you to splash 5 points and dodge every 8 seconds. I don’t think this will ruin survivability, and I think by buff other traits further down this line it will encourge rangers who are looking to survive to go further into this trait line.
.
Power Rangers
No pun intended. As many have said these guys are in an interesting position. In some ways they can be very strong, but everytime I play my ranger this way it feel like it comes up a little bit short. I think this is because they are lacking a few things as either additional tools for greatsword or as utilities. Signets are the somewhat obvious utility choice but their effect is too varied to run a strong full signet build here. Conversely all traits associated with signets tend to increase in power the more you bring. What signets need is a good trait that synergizes with bringing a single signet, like Nature’s Voice does for shouts. This would let you bring maybe one or two signets and suppliment them with something else. One idea we talked about for Greatsword would be to take the evade off of the 3rd attack of the auto-chain and put it on swoop. This would give you a second on-demand defensive skill and instead we put something less timing based (for example a whirl finisher) on that third attack to empower it.

Thanks,

Jon

Natural vigor

I understand the point but it does look like a one sided perspective. You could also consider that signet of stamina gives warrior more endurance regen (33% ?or 50%?) Without any trait …plus the fact they don’t need to spend any points to get active effect which is … wait for it… active condition removal !

I also understand when u say to not compare professions but u were talking about engineer grandmaster trait and it kinda remind me that after the december patch the “power” ranger will have to spend 40 points to have the benefits of crackshot which will cost warriors…10 points.

Power Ranger

It’s sad to say but power rangers will never be viable in wvw as long as they’ll have to heavily invest in order to get “normal” bonuses (signets) and as long as they still have so few active condition removal…which bothers me is that the december patch adress none of these issues.

Nike.2631:

Check out some of the proposed changed for Dec. 15~

Ranger longbow auto attack is getting a proposed +20% damage at short range, +15% and medium range.

Warrior longbow burst skill is getting a reduction in direct damage.

Great fixes. Should go a ways towards rectifying the imbalance between Ranger and Warrior archery some of us were well aware of.

True if u consider longbow but on the Other hand warrior’s crack shot is becoming an adept trait .

i know that rifle has a lot of weaknesses but i think it will generate some steady rifle/sniper builds, especially due to how easily they can get a 98% immo/Chill/Cripple reduction…

For those who did not saw it, warrior’s crack shot will be moved to adept trait while we still need to spend 40 points in 2 differents trees to get similar bonus…

Weird Way to promote ranger’s power build ^^

Ranger

I just saw that u were thinking about moving warrior’s crack shot to adept trait.

So if I understand well, Rangers will have to spend 40 points in 2 different trees to get the benefits a warrior can have by spending 10 points ???

Seems pretty unfair to me ….

Ranger

1/ active condition removal

I have the feeling that one of the ranger’s weakness is that he has almost no active way to deal with conditions and that most of them need the pet to be alive and close to you

>> make lightning reflexes remove immobilize, cripple and chill would be a good start to adress this issue.

2/ the power build

when you want to play a power build u realise that the marksmanship tree is overloaded with useful traits while the skirmishing tree is quite lackluster.

>> add the piercing arrow effect to quickdraw ( like warrior’s crack shot would be a good way to solve this problem

Nice vid !

Do you Feel the lack of stunbreaker and /or condition removal sometimes ? Or being more “bursty” compensate for it ?

haxi.9038:

Actually what matters most is the skill of the player. That being said, most people who actively use ranger are noobs cos anyone with half a brain would have re-rolled another class long ago.

^^
This .
However a good thing about the ranger is that u enjoy every Other classes a lot more after playing one. Due to quickness nerf i’m leveling a thief atm and wvw wise i’m constantly surprised about how it’s just way better in every way compared to my ranger.

Indoles.1467:

Honestly, loved working with the underdog profession and was excited for this new update until I read the quickness nerf. My power ranger build revolved around quickness for burst damage and quick stomps. I’m done with my ranger and am so happy I made a guardian not long ago (a profession that didn’t get kitten by this update). This quickness nerf essentially killed any chance a ranger could have a power build, further destroying build diversity. Thanks devs, thanks…

^ This

Each update I got the feeling that the ranger gor cornered into a “summoner playstyle” : U send your pet, hope it connects (which doesn’t happen most of the time) and assist him with some condition dmg….It’s fine but it’s not what i was hoping for both “ranger” and build diversity…

Also, Xsorus is Totally right about other professions… Atm i’m leveling a thief and a mesmer and aside from the fact that they already do WAY more dmg at lvl 3x, while having higher survavibility, i’m still looking for something that they don’t do better than the ranger

Nugget.8031:

I mainly play condi builds however now that ascended gear is easier to get I’m thinking of trying a power build, something like this.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|5.1n.h17|c.1n.h17.g.1n.h4|1n.a1.1n.a1.1n.a1.1n.a1.1n.a1.1n.a1|2v.0.2v.0.3v.0.3v.0.2v.0.2v.0|k18.p1a.k69.0.5|54.1|0.0.0.0.0|e

How well would that do in a wvw setting?

Honestly having a high critic dmg and a low critic chance (36% in your build ) is not gonna work cause ranger don’t do big numbers with the shortbow.

When playing berserker my crits were around 1500 and it was with 113% critic dmg…so if u compare with nerva’s video u’ll see critic dmg don’t change the damages that much.

In my opinion power build ranger is more about putting pressure, and for that u need à high critic chance and high toughness.

Xsorus.2507:

Currently i’ve been playing Glass Cannon Ranger for the past 2 days gathering video for kittens and giggles, and the thing i’ve determined playing the class is there is simply no Cannon present…

Now I can do damage…don’t get me wrong, But compared to every other class, i don’t do anywhere close to the same amount.

Here is how bad it is, I’ve got 100% crit damage bonus, and and virtually zero toughness….and a bit of HP from valks…..But my thief wearing my PVT/Knights set for my S/D setup will hit harder then everyone of my abilities on my ranger.

My Thief has almost 2000 toughness running that setup, but does more damage then my Ranger.

It wouldn’t be that bad If i had half the survivability of my Thief…But there is none….You can either use a 2 Minute Signet (and spec 30 into a line for it) or you can kill your pet..That’s it..You have nothing else.

Now i’m sure anet thinks the pet makes up for this, It does not…It doesn’t remotely make up for doing half the damage of every other Glass Cannon with no survivability.

Sad but true …Other classes do it Way better than us.

I think it’s linked to the fact that Glass Cannon playstyle is about burst dmg which the ranger is basically lacking.

nerva.7940:

hide in plain sight: it’s something im still experimenting with. it’s a target drop every 30 seconds. i like to go zerg diving, so offhand training and martial mastery just dont look as appealing. target drop is the most powerful mechanic in the game, hands down. especially in larger fights. when it’s wasted, it sucks. when it happens at the right moment, it’s amazing.

Ok, thxs for ur answers ,

About hide in plain sight i know the target drop can be amazing, but mainly vs small group in zergs there’s so much aoe that u just don’t want to be stuck in place ^^ Maybe vigor on heal since according to ur Vid it seems that when u use TU u already used a few dodges (+ it will regenerate steady focus faster)

- rune of the ranger – my pet is dead most of the time because im usually near/in zergs, but not always. i find it really easy to flank.

Yeah if ur pet is mostly dead rune of the ranger is quite bad…however in that case why not use at least one buffer pet ? 5 stack of might before rushing in could help
increase ur group damages. I also have the feeling by watching ur vid that sometimes u are switching on sword/horn just for the buff and stay quite stuck with it waiting for cooldown, a moa could also provide fury on demand.

PVT – again this is something im trying to get a feel for. the only thing i would gain from knight’s is extra crit, at the expense of vitality. both are just sugarcoating anyway, so until i gain more skills with this build i think i prefer the defensive route. when i start the series, you’ll see how effective piercing arrows are against zergs. but the closer you are, the more dps you do (reduced travel time = less arrows missing). the closer you are, the more meat you need =)

Ok i understand that, maybe it’s because i took the opposite way starting from full zerker that i don’t feel the same way about vitality ^^
However, on a long term view, i think that there’s now some ascendant gear with P/T/critic dmg, which could justify to change some parts from soldier to knight

U were talking earlier on giving a try to berserker shortbow, if it helps, with PVT gear and berserker shortbow i have 17.1 kHP which for me is more than enough

condition removal is very simple to add. i just havent needed it at all, but SBI is moving up a few tiers so we may face better opponents. sigil of fire damage too good to give up. p/d thieves, necros and some engies would be a pain in a duel, but in larger engagements theyre the least of my worries. high vitality is a bandaid solution to a couple of conditions here and there.

Yeah true, in large engagments condition removal is not a problem as long as u don’t get focused

@Xsorus : yep, u can get full pvt set from karma except leggings / u can also get it through WvW vendors (at least the leggings)

@Slingblade : When it’s said that Sigil of generosity is pve only it means that it doesn’t works in sPvp, it still works in WvW

Nice Vids, I agree that’s you’re more supportive to your group with such a build

There’s one or two think i do not agree / understand but i guess it’s just different playstyle :

- Hide in plain sight : i find this trait a little bit overrated, it stealths you but if the player is a little skilled he’ll still hit you easily. Since you’re not alone and have a good toughness i would rather go to 30 in skirminship and take primal reflexes, more dodge is always useful and it helps regaining bonus of steady shot faster.

- Troll Unguent instead of heal as one : I find this skill great for solo but a little bit lackluster in group : too long to trigger, more cooldown and u never know when u’ll get focused so hard to be proactive … but that’s just my feeling

- PVT gear + Weapon : again it’s just personal preference but i noticed that in your whole video there is just one or two time where u go below 5k HP so i don’t know if all that vit is really necessary. I think u would survive just as well with 17/18k HP and more precision is always useful

- Rune of the thief : I made some tests before and i do the same dmg with the rune of the ranger but without having to flank (if your pet don’t die all the time of course).

- Sigil of fire : As i said earlier, Sigil of fire is great but no condition removal at all is kinda meh…u should give sigil of generosity a try, with a good crit rate and the shortbow it works fairly well.

However as I said i think all of those things are just a matter of personnal preferences and considering your vid this build/spec works quite well for you ;-)

Question : How omnom pie is working after the recent nerf ?

Jos.8793:

I’ve been looking into differents topics but as I don’t sPvp much, i would like to have a discussion more WvW oriented.

I actually run a 20/30/15/0/5 build with shortbow and longbow/GS. As i was mainly running with zergs my stuff was close to full berserker…Now i’m considering roaming solo a little bit and therefore change some of my gear from berserker to knight in order to not be One Shot….

nerva.7940:

thats a squishy build, i wouldnt recommend to a beginner. you will get dropped by a haste thief in under a second.

Since u are actually running quite the exact same build could i just know what changed your mind ?

However i totally agree that one of this build advantages is to adapt well to different kind of gear

From what i have tried I’m not a big fan of pvt gear as I think that vitality is not that useful (even if it’s nice to have more than the minimum 20k seems a bit too high)

Furthermore your base precision seems a bit low … 46 % is good but u could easily up it by switching gear or weapon, which could be more useful especially since u’re using sigil of fire which would proc more…About weapon, if sigil of fire is great for zergs, i would recommend to also get a shortbow with sigil of purity or sigil of generosity for solo as u have no condition removal on your build.

And last but not least :

“Food items that gives special bonuses upon a critical has now an internal cooldown before they can produce special bonus again” ><

capuchinseven.8395:

Lert.6287:

I’m sure Jos will be thankful for your helpful ego show up. It will improve his build so much, he will be able to take stone mist within 1min all alone.

If you feel that “go up against a real level 80 thief and you’ll be finished in seconds” by another poster is useful advice for the OP and doesn’t require disagreement then you’re very welcome to you’re opinion, I’m sorry that you feel a claim that I’m no longer buying these “godly thieves” are out there and I’m never ever meeting them on T1 or 2 and in PVP (which is the common defense made for the argument) is ego but again you’re welcome to your opinion.

I don’t see it that way, there are a number of rangers here more than able to kill thieves and there is nothing special about me simply because I can kill thieves.

As I said, I don’t buy that argument. The only thieves that give me trouble are those built the same way as my ranger, condition damage with high toughness and I can kill them with a little patience, keeping my pet back, forcing them to use cooldowns to enter stealth rather than using C/D on my pet and then dropping 8 bleeds on me.

Lert.6287:

How old are you, 10?

I’m sorry, I’m confused, I assume you’re talking to me but then I didn’t start a useless argument about someones use of the English language as their first language, someone else did.

Yeah…that’s kinda true that’s this “1vs1” wasn’t very constructive even if I agree that thiefs aren’t godly nor unkillables.

Which is sad is that you didn’t anwered my question at all whereas u seems to have a build similar to Lert’s and some valid advice on the power vs condition with this build : i just found this info on a cleric armor build thread and could have easily swapped the topic since it didn ’ t seems to be related to what I was looking for.

PS : more related to the end of the topic, I apologize for my bad english, it’s also isn ’ t my native language ;-)

Lert.6287:

Jos, it’s not better. Going for condition will decrease my toughness and power. And it’s not really that big difference if bleeding does 57-62daamge or 80. But it is when i almost spam (83% c. chance with fury) 700-950dmg instead of 200-300 like in condi build. Ofc it’s less to people with over 3k armor and more to cannon builders.
I use spike trap and fire trap along with warhorn skill 4 as ’’burst’’ damage for thieves. Then i drop traps on me (they will use steal to get close to me). Then dodge, warhorn and change to bow. Mostly after this, their half health is away. By time when they are on stealth i can use evade skills or dodge, drop traps in cd is gone or use f2 skill.
They will ofc burst me for around half health in 2sec, but they won’t be able to repeat such burst again cause of steal cd.
I’m not really afraid of thieves on WvW in 1v1 situations. Bigger problem are cannon mesmers and their illusions.

Fighting quite much any other class is much easier since you see them all the time and can hit them. And ofc if you hit them, you get health cause of omnomberry food.

Ok, thxs for the detailed answer, I’ll give ur build and the knight gear a try after next update

nerva.7940:

thats a squishy build, i wouldnt recommend to a beginner. you will get dropped by a haste thief in under a second.

I know that my actual berserker build is way too squishy for roaming, that’s why i’m willing to change it.

@Lert : tanks for your answer. So you use the classic trapper build But with power gear ? Your stats seems really interesting since it ’s almost what I was looking for : high crit chance and high toughness.

However I wonder if such a build wouldn’t be more efficient with condition damage build instead of power.

I’ve been looking into differents topics but as I don’t sPvp much, i would like to have a discussion more WvW oriented.

I actually run a 20/30/15/0/5 build with shortbow and longbow/GS. As i was mainly running with zergs my stuff was close to full berserker.

The idea of the build was to have the higher crit chance possible to gain good condition removal from sigil of purity and good regen from omnom pie (thanks to the sb crasy firing rate) while having good crit dmg (103%).

Now i’m considering roaming solo a little bit and therefore change some of my gear from berserker to knight in order to not be One Shot.

I never really considered condition build since I thought there was to much cons for WvW (max stack of bleed / flanking / conditions removal / …)

However since i want to focus more around 1vs1 and I will have to buy some new gear anyways, I would be happy to get some opinions from people who have tried both specs.

Vizual.3504:

PS : im not english native so pardon me for being a grammer nazi.

Same here (so I apologize in advance) but i would also like to give my 0.02$ about the shortbow update :

The modification made to skill 1 casting time decreased our overall damage but i felt like i could get over it until i used QZ and discovered how useless it had become.

The thing is that shortbow and QZ was one of our only option to create a burst damage which ranger is basically lacking (except rapid fire but …).

People are complaining about the shortbow nerf because, as it has been said many time, it’s our only viable weapon for pvp. For example, I would love to use longbow as a primary weapon, i find that skills are well thought for a range weapon, however :

- firing rate is slow as hell
- skill 1 damage is a joke : it should be a correct damage which increase with range instead of a correct damage which (greatly) decrease with range
- arrows spend so much time in the air that 80% of them are easily avoidable in pvp.

The same goes for all other weapons…and pet AI

The problem is not only the nerf, it’s being nerf without any other modifications when so much things seems to be already broken/wrong with the ranger.