Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

Go to mesmer forums, watch them begging for buffs, especially for chrono (WTH?!!??)…. because being top class along with dd eles is not enough….. man, really.

Recharge of mantras in background was anything but fine…. i am glad they fixed that bug. Nerf PU (which really needs to happen), maybe other GMs would be more interesting.

Last I played, mesmers weren’t top 1v1. They were top for utility because of portal and mass invisibility.

This is not a whining post, so take that somewhere else… every class has some overpowered build atm, I want diversity builds to be viable and in this case it’s Mesmer using 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras”.

I see, thanks for the insight

nearlight.3064:

KingZmaN.6473:

Tao.1234:

There was a very good Mantra change while back ago, which made Mantra spec viable.

But devs reverted that change couple hours after Mantra Mesmer stomped celeddele in tourney.

Sadly, don’t expect any changes in this aspect or any answers for the next 5 years.

Thank you for your understanding.

Do you remember the change? Why is there such effort to nerf 4-Mantra builds?

They didn’t intend to nerf 4 mantra builds. The build that was nerfed used 2 mantras, the heal and distraction. Mantra of distraction was too strong when combined with power block and confounding suggestions, while the mantra heal with inspiration traits gave too much sustain to a burst based build. Also, a “bug” caused mantras to recharge in the backward after their first charge, making it so that you had very little time where you’d be vulnerable.

I do feel as though they did overnerf it by making harmonious mantras weaker, when they really should have just raised the iCD of confounding suggestions to prevent it from being a brain dead method of not having to use skill and judgement to land your bursts. Mime still plays mantras competitively, whereas most other mesmers just run PU.

Also 4 mantras was never taken, simply because portal and blink are almost mandatory on every competitive Mesmer build, but it does suck when needing an overpowered meta build has consequences for casual/fun creative builds.

Thank You!

How can I find this “Mime” person?

Tao.1234:

There was a very good Mantra change while back ago, which made Mantra spec viable.

But devs reverted that change couple hours after Mantra Mesmer stomped celeddele in tourney.

Sadly, don’t expect any changes in this aspect or any answers for the next 5 years.

Thank you for your understanding.

Do you remember the change? Why is there such effort to nerf 4-Mantra builds?

To: GW2 Developers

Subject: 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras” playstyles

GW2 Developers,

Will there be any buff to 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras” playstyles?

Currently, 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras” playstyles have no way to produce clones that don’t require a successful “hit” since “Deceptive Evasion” is now a ‘Dueling’ GrandMaster trait – will this change in the future?

In light of the changes to “Prismatic Understanding” (100% stealth duration increase), other GrandMaster traits are lackluster in comparison – therefore encouraging one kind of playstyle from mesmers in PvP which is surprising coming from ANET’s  GW2.

I prefer using 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras” for their flexibility from being instant cast and don’t mind the tradeoff of cast times and cooldowns and being exposed, though, there should be something given in return to keep 4 mantra w/ “Harmonious Mantras” competitive against the buffs to other/meta playstyles.

Look forward to GW2 developer reply

To: GW2 Developers

Subject: 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras” playstyles

GW2 Developers,

Will there be any buff to 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras” playstyles?

Currently, 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras” playstyles have no way to produce clones that don’t require a successful “hit” since “Deceptive Evasion” is now a ‘Dueling’ GrandMaster trait – will this change in the future?

In light of the changes to “Prismatic Understanding” (100% stealth duration increase), other GrandMaster traits are lackluster in comparison – therefore encouraging one kind of playstyle from mesmers in PvP which is surprising coming from ANET’s GW2.

I prefer using 4 mantras w/ “Harmonious Mantras” for their flexibility from being instant cast and don’t mind the tradeoff of cast times and cooldowns and being exposed, though, there should be something given in return to keep 4 mantra w/ “Harmonious Mantras” competitive against the buffs to other/meta playstyles.

Look forward to GW2 developer reply

Thx All! I have a better idea what to do for what I want to achieve!

I mean, ones that they will respond to, like a conversation or something – specifically about profession mechanics.

Is there a specific forum to voice feedback that will be read by Guild Wars 2 developers?

Wyrden.4713:

KingZmaN.6473:

Wyrden.4713:

RedCobra.7693:

ill just leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byXIn0YVqHE

some of them didnt even use their dodge ._.

Hey, that’s the beauty of the mantra build, people think they can easily win since they presume “you have no defense, and, you are clearly distinguished from your clones”, besides, maybe he was demonstrating the potency of his play style.

By the way, people replied to this topic requesting “proof” for the mantra build, and I’m noticing, that even after you have “proof” for the mantra build people still hate on the mantra build.

Just because most suck with a mantra build doesn’t mean everyone will suck with a mantra build, as, this being the truth in which I am resolute and in the various ways voice/defend in my replies.

most of the enemys in vid were utterly bad, i meant, they didnt ever dodge in the duel, the war w rifle for example, i think he didnt even use weapon swap…

Hey, people got their video, furthermore, I’m happy someone even took the time to record/edit that video, as well as, for someone else to take the time to find and post (maybe even re-post) that video.

Also, it is a valid demonstration of how one might go about using a mantra build, which for that purpose, is just fine (noting that one or a few prior replies by my topic antagonists provided opposing build output examples which were against target dummies).

TrueNoodles.3850:

Can I see a video of you using that against sword/dagger thieves please?

Well, I’ve fought and won against some skilled sword/dagger thieves , though, trying to catch those occurrences on video would be “work” – I don’t have any real motivation to go around running video/screen capture software in hopes of catching an encounter worthy of showing then to edit and upload it, when I go to pvp, I just wanna log on and play with the pals I’ve made during my pvp play time and have fun.

Wyrden.4713:

RedCobra.7693:

ill just leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byXIn0YVqHE

some of them didnt even use their dodge ._.

Hey, that’s the beauty of the mantra build, people think they can easily win since they presume “you have no defense, and, you are clearly distinguished from your clones”, besides, maybe he was demonstrating the potency of his play style.

By the way, people replied to this topic requesting “proof” for the mantra build, and I’m noticing, that even after you have “proof” for the mantra build people still hate on the mantra build.

Just because most suck with a mantra build doesn’t mean everyone will suck with a mantra build, as, this being the truth in which I am resolute and in the various ways voice/defend in my replies.

RedCobra.7693:

ill just leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byXIn0YVqHE

I digs it, first part of video shows the mantra setup I use (that many hated on, oh wait, uh right, “constructively criticized”, as being no good because of the lack of a stun-break) proving when wielded proficiently one can own regardless with this person swapping mantras later on which I acknowledged as an option in my extra text file, also, nearly same weapon setup except I use [Scepter]/[Pistol] instead of [Sword]/[Pistol] and for elite skill [Polymorph Moa] instead of [Mass Invisibility].

Build is different, although, shares the same key traits, meaning, honed for this persons play style – being close to the shatter mantra version employed by the other mesmer of which I spoke in my first post.

Thanks for sharing the video!

Enjoyed the music (SirensCeol feat. Sean Dee – Nightmare)!

Play on!

;-D

Dhampyr.2104:

KingZmaN.6473:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Dhampyr.2104:

I’m pretty sure we can let this thread die and nobody would miss it.

Yes, lets do that.

Maybe this whole exercise could have been avoided if you hadn’t tried to be so oppressively rhetoric regarding content this forum freely allows individuals to share.

… Something tells me that you get some sort of validation from the responses.

Constructive discussion ended in this thread a long time ago.

Well, that couldn’t be more off, at first it was entertaining to counter all the hate (oh, I’m sorry, “constructive criticism”) but now I just reply when I’m bored.

Didn’t know if you knew this, but, you can always not reply.

Jurica.1742:

You can’t argue with Pyro. He has bulletproof logic, does the math on everything to check if he is correct. … What he is saying is actually tested in the game and what you are saying is theory. Theory doesn’t always apply to the real deal. I enjoyed laughing at the argument you two had.Thank you a lot for it. No offense intended.

Bulletproof is not the case, though, tested I can presume.

I play and win often with my build, so, I speak from my experience which apparently contrasts what so many others believe.

Well, at least it was entertainment for you (and possibly others) ;-p

Jurica.1742:

Just accept that Pyro is correct here.
…
Have a wonderful rest of the day mate, play your build if you enjoy it. It’s what matters.

Much love

~Monns

Sorry, can’t do that.

Thx, be easy.

Joonks.7501:

I wanna try talking like this guy, it’s hilarious.

Truly the stubbornness you have shown in lending an ear to the numerous criticisms placed upon your amateurish build have caused me to regard you as a lost cause, thus I bid you adieu and pray earnestly that you never materialize on my pvp roster.

Good show!

Pyroathiest.4168:

Dhampyr.2104:

I’m pretty sure we can let this thread die and nobody would miss it.

Yes, lets do that.

Maybe this whole exercise could have been avoided if you hadn’t tried to be so oppressively rhetoric regarding content this forum freely allows individuals to share.

AresFyra.3570:

I’m not going to comment on your original post, since I believe you’ve already been met with enough constructive critisism.. And very accurate such! I’m all for build diversity and everyone should play a build that suits their own playstyle and goals. Nevertheless, you should not blatantly ignore advice from more experienced players who have devoted countless hours to the game, and the understanding of its aspects.

After reading your wondrous replies to some of the mesmer community’s biggest contributors, (just check their post history if you question that fact) I have to wonder:

Why post in these forums in the first place if you don’t want constructive critisism from players who have obviously more (even documented) experience in the field? It sort of defeats the purpose of these forums altogether, wouldn’t you say..?

“more experience” doesn’t mean “only possible experience”, nor does “more experience” entitle someone, especially, in passing off demeaning opinionated dialogue as “constructive criticism”.

You express yourself, but, in a respectful manner, to which, I respond likewise.

Hypothetically, if I see someone new to the game is doing something effective that someone playing since the game’s launch is not doing, I’m not going to ignore/demean what someone new to the game is doing just because their new to the game, and instead, see if what someone new to game is doing will work for me too.

AresFyra.3570:

You say that posting pictures was for a social reason, but how social do you come across when responding in the way that you do? I’ve personally had a few breaks here and there since Beta, but I’ve continued to read posts on the mesmer forums during all of those breaks..! Some of the responders to your original post have made the time spent reading these forums very enjoyable, and often a valuable learning experience.

My suggestion is that you also treat it as such, and stop trolling in your own posts.

In nearly every community, especially gaming communities, you encounter people being hateful and spiteful and derogatory as that’s how they get their kicks or gain their esteem.

I will “tear down” those behave in the aforementioned manner no matter who they are or who they perceive themselves to be, which, is not to be mistaken as trolling my own posts.

AresFyra.3570:

With that said, I hope you have a wonderful time in game, and continue to evolve!

Thanks, you the same :-)

I wonder, how many more pages of contrived duplicitous rhetoric from my topic antagonists will be manufactured disavowing what I’ve already shared and what I’ve already addressed.

Truly, my topic antagonists verbiage is of totalitarian proportions, and nigh Shakespearean, considering a game founded on diversity spurred the social community with it’s social medium through which my topic antagonists speak.

Bravi. Bravi.

All my topic antagonists, quite frankly, are conversational newbs.

You come in, try to bash/condemn whatever you don’t agree with in any way can, just so you can… I don’t even know what the real objectives are in my topic antagonists’ replies, but it’s clear, that my topic antagonists’ did not come to amicably converse, instead, to defame/debase any notion contrary to theirs.

Which I once iterated here:

The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and, I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees with them regarding Mantras, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras.

Every positive and constructive thing I say regarding complete mantra builds, my topic antagonists’ seek to decimate, then have the gall, to slander me as doing the same the positive and constructive words of others.

Handin.4032:

…
Several of us, who are veteran mesmer players, have came here and stated that, while the build may be fun, it is not all-in-all very great.
…

The above translates to, “my experience is different than yours, and, vice-versa”, which, is what I’ve shared.

Handin.4032:

…
However, when you run in tpvp, especially if you solo queue for team queue, you’re playing for the team. You must be the best help, and this is why people run specific builds. These are the builds which maximize a mesmers ability to help the team win. Your build, while may be fun, has several massive flaws which mean you will probably hurt your team more than help it.
…

Teams can operate in various ways which is utterly subject to each member of the team and each member’s strengths, so to suggest that a team-member playing a class has only one or a few builds that can assist the team as a whole when the strengths/weakness of each team-member is not known, quite frankly, is illogical.

Handin.4032:

…
You are claiming we’re biased, but we’re not. We’re not in some secret mesmer club which is trying to bring uniformity. We like new builds, new metas coming out, etc. BUT, you’re biasing yourself. Your essentially telling people you don’t care what anyone says negatively about your build, because you have all the insight on it and we just can’t understand. If you have fun playing the build, that’s fantastic. However, in order to educate those who may wish to use the build YOU posted on a PUBLIC forums, we’re listing any benefits AND consequences.
…

That’s good to know, and, listing “pros”/“cons” is fine, though, that’s not all that’s being stated and it is the biased narrow-minded aggressive nigh mock condemnation of complete mantra builds which I rebut, as again, contradicts my positive experience (which I shared as “constructive criticism”) regarding complete mantra builds.

Handin.4032:

…
then tell everyone who discusses that they’re being trolls for not accepting how insightful and great the build is, and then say you don’t care what people think.
…

For the fact that you’re asserting your ill perception of replies (from others and myself) as fact, so far so, to put words in my mouth that I never said, you have lost all validity of a “neutral” or “helpful” position to anyone coming to this topic.

There’s only one person that I called a TROLL, and that’ s Pyro.

Ross Biddle.2367:

As you stated, you don’t feel the need to justify yourself to dirty filthy human beings like Pyro, but this made me remember that the burden of proof lays on the claim maker. So while you might not feel moved by any particular person in this thread, it is a fair and reasonable general request for their to be evidence (such as a gameplay vid) to support your claims, wouldn’t you agree?

Also there’s plenty of statements being thrown around, but I have a question for you. Using your build, what do you do, or should a user do in the scenario where you get stunned/stun locked?

First, the only social obligation to prove anything is coming from peers in the social medium, and, no where else.

Second, replied to “what do you do when stunned” based conversation topic issued by Pyro on the first page, since you felt the need to ask a similar question, I suggest you go back to the first page and look for my answer.

Sandrox.9524:

…
So why you “defending” this build from ppl who say they see flaws in it?
…

Correction, I’m defending what I shared from people who are saying that complete mantra builds are not worth playing, as, that sentiment contradicts the positive experience (which I relayed as “constructive criticism”) regarding a complete mantra build, furthermore, just for the fact you built that entire statement on others seeing flaws in a build you insert the notion that there are builds with no flaws, which is simply not true, therefore, making this statement towards my positive experience (ie, which I relayed as “constructive criticism”) with complete mantra builds irrelevant.

Sandrox.9524:

…
You try to convince WHY YOUR BUILD IS SUPERIOR TO ANY OTHER BUILD and that build is kind of mantra build and it is well known that mantras need to rework and this build is defiantly worse than the usual one so your tries are worthless.

Again, another misguided remark (you guys are on a roll!) as I have never tried to convince anyone that my mantra build is better than other builds, instead, I shared the reasons why I prefer my mantra build. There’s a difference. You should heed the difference before you post replies making you appear ignorant to the material already shared and conversation topics already discussed.

Schattenlied.4873:

As Benjamin said lockdown builds with 2 mantras (heal+distraction) are ok, you can use Decoy and Blink as stunbreakers, heal + Mender´s Purity gives you decent condition remove if you need it.
I´m running a build like this in wvw atm (so my stats are much higher than yours, both defensive and offensive) and still the cast time of the mantras is sometimes annoying. Smart players will attack you as soon as they see the mantra casting animation, so they get at least 2 seconds for a burst and/or interrupt. Of course you can try to cover those weak spots with Decoy+mantra cast or other combinations, but you don´t have any skill that helps you in this way. If I ever see a full mantra build while playing interrupt/lockdown, I will eat it alive.

I use mantras. I love non-meta builds. But your build is just lacking the tools to make mantras work. A lot of people have stressed this fact before here, I just wanted to give you the perspective of an other mantra user and show you interrupt builds as a more viable option for those who like to play with mantras.

I understand your play-style, it’s kewl, I just like using 4 mantras is all.

Pyroathiest.4168:

KingZmaN.6473:

The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras.

We don’t care what you do or do not believe. We just want to make it abundantly clear to newer players who might stop by this thread that full mantras is not a viable playstyle. We don’t want this to be the case, I’d love it if full mantras was actually a thing that could be done…but it’s not. All of us here have come to terms with that reality, even the most steadfast mantra proponents (Fay). They simply aren’t good enough to truly base a build around.

Again, I think it’s about time you stopped talking and started doing. You say this build is good, you say you’re good with it, you say it can work. Record it. Show us. Prove us all wrong.

You are no one to which I need to prove anything too.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

KingZmaN.6473:

Just as you vocalized everyone’s right to discuss in whatever manner they see fit, your vocalization includes me as well.

Additionally, “constructive criticism” I respond to with no problem at all, though, “biased criticism” I simply ‘tear down’ as others have been trying to do regarding this topic.

You’re entire logic regarding teams undermines itself, you say if a team wins with builds deemed “terrible” doesn’t make the builds no longer “terrible”, so the contradiction is, if the build itself is so inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) then no matter how much effort one (or a group) puts into playing said inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) build they cannot win, though yet, they did win meaning the build itself is not inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) as stated.

And I did cover the team thing, continuing on, I already addressed that it was never my attention to discuss my mantra build outside of what I presented in my extra text file.

Another example of a misguided remark, revealing that you also, have spoken void of the context of the previous person’s remark or the information I’ve shared or the conversation topics I’ve already responded, of which you are defending, thus, proving my “narrow-minded” context with your very own reply post.

Sure you have the “right” to post here but it doesn’t give you the right to be right. If you won’t listen to any advice/constructive criticism I see no point to you posting because you are being self defeating. As pyro has stated, at this point this is beyond you. It’s about making sure no one else picks up on your bad advice.

The best players out there can use terrible builds and stomp noobs. Just because highly skilled players make the choice to handicap themselves doesn’t mean that those builds are good builds. If you cannot understand this on a fundamental level then watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8qQ-CZvL3Y
Among a few topics, it’s the top team in EU talking about how their builds aren’t perfect and they will continue to optimize them. If you somehow think that you are better than them and don’t need to improve, I have nothing more to say.

Only others have introduced the context of “right” and “wrong” in terms of class builds, and just as the liberty I have to ‘post’ here, so others have taken the same liberty and asserted their contexts (ie, opinion, belief, thought, or whatever else you want to call it) as “right” or “wrong”.

Quite honestly, the only individuals here proving they can’t take “constructive criticism” are the ones not accepting and, apparently from your statement “We just want to make it abundantly clear to newer players who might stop by this thread that full mantras is not a viable playstyle.”, the ones not wanting others accept any notion in favor of using Mantras.

The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and, I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees with them regarding Mantras, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

If you want to give insight as to why you prefer mantra builds then people will also discuss why they used to use mantra builds and why they no longer use them. To call the opposition narrow-minded for offering rebuttals is an attempt to have no discussion at all. Since these are forums, discussion will happen whether you like it or not. In this sense, your claimed intent doesn’t mean anything. Learn to deal with constructive criticism or don’t bother posting at all.

KingZmaN.6473:

Lastly, a team is a team, you have members who are designated to fulfill certain roles, all based on each team-member’s strengths and how the team as a whole meshes with each team-member’s strength, translating, if the team as a whole is exceptional and can win with all team-members using a healing based build then there’s nothing “terrible” about it.

This is just terrible logic.
The team can be great and win while still using terrible builds. They just need to put in extra effort/skill to outplay the opposition. That doesn’t mean their builds are no longer terrible. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t better builds out there. That doesn’t mean their builds don’t have any glaring flaws.

So no you did not cover the team thing. You also didn’t cover the team thing for your build specifically. Roles are not just based on strengths but also weaknesses. As others have stated, your build doesn’t have much strength in the PvP format of the game. It also has a HUGE weakness as far as defenses go. For a team to try and cover your weakness well would be a huge drain on team resources.

Just as you vocalized everyone’s right to discuss in whatever manner they see fit, your vocalization includes me as well.

Additionally, “constructive criticism” I respond to with no problem at all, though, “biased criticism” I simply ‘tear down’ as others have been trying to do regarding this topic.

You’re entire logic regarding teams undermines itself, you say if a team wins with builds deemed “terrible” doesn’t make the builds no longer “terrible”, so the contradiction is, if the build itself is so inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) then no matter how much effort one (or a group) puts into playing said inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) build they cannot win, though yet, they did win meaning the build itself is not inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) as stated.

And I did cover the team thing, continuing on, I already addressed that it was never my attention to discuss my mantra build outside of what I presented in my extra text file.

Another example of a misguided remark, revealing that you also, have spoken void of the context of the previous person’s remark or the information I’ve shared or the conversation topics I’ve already responded, of which you are defending, thus, proving my “narrow-minded” context with your very own reply post.

Kaamau.5341:

…
I did, just felt like it didn’t quite make it into your head.

So then you acknowledge you were TROLLING by provoking a conversation piece that you knew was already addressed, furthermore, since this is the mantra build I am using to share in the context of “my mantra build” is not misspoken.

Handin.4032:

Look, I’ll make an offer: if you want to message me any time I’m in game, we can try to set up a 1v1. Then I can show you the flaws of the build.

You keep mentioning how insightful this build is. I just don’t see it, and I did read your text file. It seems like you’re so set on using something “different” that you’re essentially gimping yourself. You’re using the excuse that a mesmer with lots of skill will do well anyways. BUT, a very skilled mesmer, using a proven very useful build, will be even better. In tpvp you have to build for whats best for your team. If you die every engagement because you have no stun breakers, or are glass even though its a sustain build (which means you really should be running like knights or valk), what are you going to tell your team? “Sorry, I’m actually a skilled mesmer, I’m just running a build you wouldn’t understand?”. There is a reason people run condi clone death, or shatter, or phantasm builds. They’re reliable, well tested builds. I know quite a few veteran mesmers that wish mantras, or signets, or anything else would be more viable in tpvp, but right now they’re just not.

As stated before, it doesn’t matter what your text file says, it doesn’t matter how great you feel the build is. I’ve been there, where I was so sure I found the next great build (signets), but I was wrong. In the end, the weaknesses of your build are too great to counter any benefits.

I did not come here to issue out challenges, furthermore, I already covered the “team-member” dynamic with:

KingZmaN.6473:

…
Lastly, a team is a team, you have members who are designated to fulfill certain roles, all based on each team-member’s strengths and how the team as a whole meshes with each team-member’s strength, translating, if the team as a whole is exceptional and can win with all team-members using a healing based build then there’s nothing “terrible” about it.

The point of this topic was to SHARE MY MANTRA BUILD AND PROVIDE INSIGHT AS TO WHY I PREFER TO USE MY MANTRA BUILD, and, not to convince others as to why my mantra build is better than using other builds.

Honestly, remarks wouldn’t be so misguided if people “took the time”/“exerted the effort” to actually understand what I’m sharing and my intentions for sharing.

Neurophen.9738:

KingZmaN.6473:

Neurophen.9738:

There’s no stun breaks in that build, you’re going to have a bad time in sPvP with it. Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear.

Remarks void of the insight I’ve shared have little value, and, only serve the narrow-minded, which is fine, for the narrow-minded will be left to their devices, as, those who do read thoroughly through all that I’ve shared will at the least obtain my perspective.

Congratulations good troll, you had us. Let’s try this on the other classboards it’ll be fun.

Narrow-minded indeed.

Pyroathiest.4168:

KingZmaN.6473:

Neurophen.9738:

There’s no stun breaks in that build, you’re going to have a bad time in sPvP with it. Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear.

Remarks void of the insight I’ve shared have little value, and, only serve the narrow-minded, which is fine, for the narrow-minded will be left to their devices, as, those who do read thoroughly through all that I’ve shared will at the least obtain my perspective.

You’re uh. You’re starting sound like you’re quoting scripture. Not sure what that means.

I can’t help others (or your) perception of my rhetorical style, as the same with, how others perceive me and the topic I created.

Raunchy.6891:

KingZmaN.6473:

My mantra build isn’t “sub-standard”, just, one way to play in a game that propagates build diversity.

It’s actually by definition substandard seeing as how mantra builds aren’t the standard for pvp mesmers at all. Also the build diversity in this game is stifled by the impossible to counter mechanics that some classes have. That and bugs on abilities. …

Well, in the context of what’s widely used or accepted, they yea, but in terms of output or usability, then it’s subject to each individual’s skill with any chosen build.

Raunchy.6891:

I think your build could benefit more from MoC instead of MoP, since having a stun break is a great way to reduce pressure put on you. …

Yea, I covered this in my extra text file as a variation to my build.

Raunchy.6891:

I really wish we had an elite mantra though.

Now that’s an interesting theory, I wonder what it would do :-)

Neurophen.9738:

There’s no stun breaks in that build, you’re going to have a bad time in sPvP with it. Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear.

Remarks void of the insight I’ve shared have little value, and, only serve the narrow-minded, which is fine, for the narrow-minded will be left to their devices, as, those who do read thoroughly through all that I’ve shared will at the least obtain my perspective.

Again, in a game the propagates diversity, what the mainstream thinks of anything is irrelevant so long as the individual likes what they have chosen.

Pyroathiest.4168:

KingZmaN.6473:

Essentially, you’ve presumed that I started playing Mantra’s just recently and decided to create this topic for some intent other than to share.

Actually, we’re presuming that you’ve only started pvping recently. Note that this isn’t a bad thing in and of itself, but it is a fact. Your lack of understanding of how binding blade functions betrays the fact that you’re a very new pvper. Being such, it’s understandable that you may not have encountered many skilled players yet when using this build.

You simply presume to much, betraying whatever facade you show in these forums, thus, revealing your pompous pretentious arrogance, and as such, I have little respect for your words and words from those of your character.

Pyroathiest.4168:

KingZmaN.6473:

All the things you say are valid in the context you present, but, is void of what I shared in my extra text file, as well as, in my previous posts on this topic.

Your text file is 40% explaning why you took moa, 40% laying out skill rotations in pre-crafted fight scenarios, and 20% this is how and why you made the build.

Which part of that is supposed to explain how you avoid all the valid problems that we’ve brought up and you’ve failed to explain?

From my text file:
…
Due to the near infinite amount of opponent scenarios, I will not list multiple opponent scenarios as one simple scenario is enough for any cognitive player to get the idea of how my mantra build works and how it can be applied in other scenarios.
…
Now, this is just a usually/typically scenario, and, does not try to account for skilled opponent scenarios nor will I try to account for skilled opponent scenarios as what is necessary to win for each skilled opponent scenario will vary.
…

It was never my intent to explain to anyone how to fight against other skilled opponents and the variety of PvP class builds, so, for the fact that you stress the point of my lack of explanation regarding how to “avoid all the valid problems that we’ve brought up and you’ve failed to explain?” reveals your deliberate provocative intent to take the topic I’ve shared out the scope within my topic was shared.

Furthermore, the whole point of any game is to encounter challenges and figure out how to beat them, and, anyone playing games who shares in this ideal would not want to “receive or be told play-by-play” before each encounter how to win each encounter ESPECIALLY in PvP where one wants to own their victory over their opponent.

To speak on, everything I shared in my extra text file is to provide insight as to why I find my mantra build beneficial so that one can obtain understanding, instead of, just putting my mantra build out there and leaving one to simply ponder on their own why I would use my mantra build.

Essentially Pyroathiest.4168, you seem intensely focused to “tear down” what I’ve shared, rather than, amicably converse about what I’ve shared, so likewise, for you and any others of your dialogue I will extend the same courtesy.

Handin.4032:

KingZmaN.6473:

Pyroathiest, Handin, and Raunchy (and anyone else of similar dialogue)

All the things you say are valid in the context you present, but, is void of what I shared in my extra text file, as well as, in my previous posts on this topic.

1) You claim that everyone who states anything against you’re build is a troll. We’re not. We’re giving you constructive criticism, and I think all of us have tried mantras at some point or another.

2) I read your .txt file. Everything we’ve stated is valid. What we’re saying is: even though your build has good sustain, because you’re glass, you’re too prone to CC and burst. Glass is NOT good for sustain, bottom line. No matter how good your sustain is, if you’re glass, one pistol whip from a thief and you’re almost dead.

3) Despite what your text file says, it doesn’t change the fact that your build has a few vital weaknesses. These weaknesses are inherit in using mantras. After you do your instacast ,you have to recharge. The moment a single dps’er notices you’re running mantras they will engage you, and it will be hard for you to recharge. You’re running no stun breaks, no mobility. This means you will be very slow when moving in combat.

We’re not engaging in a personal attack against you. We’ve looked at your build, at your text file, at your images, and are telling you the flaws in the build

You’re not saying anything that I haven’t already addressed, furthermore, your replies omit the existence of skill in the Mesmer using the mantra build.

Essentially, you’ve presumed that I started playing Mantra’s just recently and decided to create this topic for some intent other than to share.

Ross Biddle.2367:

KingZmaN.6473:

Hey Ross Biddle,

I understand where you’re coming from, Mantras don’t have any real “gimicky overpowered nigh unavoidable damage” compared to what’s found in other classes, but on that note, I hope ANET continues to balance the other classes so all classes are stripped from overpowered mechanics that are nigh impossible to avoid.

Maybe then, mantras won’t seem so bad.

After all, if a game company starts giving all classes “gimicky overpowered nigh unavoidable damage” mechanics rather than create a balance between all their classes, then the game the game company is behind is doomed for failure in terms of PvP.

I’m not sure what these “gimicky overpowered nigh unavoidable damage” classes or builds are. I’ve been playing mesmer since release, and while I recognize there are burst classes, builds, and combo’s out there, I can’t say I’ve ever allowed myself to be subject to them. In effect, you can build to withstand them, and build to counter them. Which, in my reasoning, means they’re not gimmicky at all.

MY point about mantras being bad mechanically was that they function poorly for general play. The very design of them is counter intuitive to the structure of the human brain, especially in the incredibly aggressive, hostile, fast gameplay of GW2 PvP. This has been discussed many’a time on the forums, and probably just as much off the forums between peers. Mantras are terrible, and in fact, outside of a few “gimicky” instances (condi cleanse heal spam, balth rune burn procs, centaur rune swiftness- to name a few example) have no place in a competitive game.

Holy cow!!

The most constructive reply post yet! Thanks!

I hear what you’re saying, and, if you managed not to be killed once by a cheesy PvP class build for the duration of your PvP career then that’s great, though, mantras aren’t as bad as they’re made out to be nor are they “counter intuitive to the structure of the human brain” , and, from what I’ve experienced can be used in competitive play.

Additionally, whatever build one decides use is the build they decide to use because it suits them, translating, just because mantra builds others have tried didn’t suit them doesn’t mean someone else won’t/can’t find a mantra build that does suit them.

Lastly, a team is a team, you have members who are designated to fulfill certain roles, all based on each team-member’s strengths and how the team as a whole meshes with each team-member’s strength, translating, if the team as a whole is exceptional and can win with all team-members using a healing based build then there’s nothing “terrible” about it.

Kaamau.5341:

Messed with a build almost exactly like this… last summer. Hate to break it to you, but this isn’t new in any way shape or form, …

Already addressed the “Mantra’s ain’t new” retort in a previous post, should you have cared to read through this topic, you would’ve seen my previous post thus making your above remark unnecessary.

Kaamau.5341:

… just a change of runes and sigils since the update dropped, which actually makes almost no difference in the long run. You might beat up on some noobs, but some one who has played or taken on a Mesmer for an extended period of time at high level play will laugh and rofl-stomp you. As they easily dodge most of your abilities and crush you.

Well, what you say sounds valid, except, your account speaks as if the Mesmer is not as skilled/experienced as the opponents they’re facing.

Generally speaking, anyone who faces tactics they’ve never seen before has a more likely chance of losing, but, once they learn the tactics of their opponent (ie, gain experience) along with making the necessary adjustments the chance of loss is decreased, furthermore, continued exposure to the same opponent’s tactics with the necessary adjustments will soon lead to victories for a Mesmer as skilled as the opponent.

Hyung.6140:

KingZmaN.6473:

If you want to … perhaps engage in conversation based on my exposition, then see attached file …

All I see is people attempting to engage in conversation based on your build as you asked and you shouting TROLL at them because you don’t like what they’re saying.

In review of this topic, I’ve only shouted “TROLL!” to one person’s replies, Pyroathiest.4168.

Based on your remark here (with the understanding that you didn’t review posts to this topic well enough to see that I only shouted “TROLL!” to one person’s replies along with me conversing with others who were amicable) and any further reply posts you make will determine your intentions.

Hyung.6140:

Credit to Pyro et al for remaining calm and conversational, after the first couple of posts in this thread I thought it was going to devolve pretty rapidly but it didn’t.

On topic: It’s my experience that this build CAN win 1v1s, but it doesn’t win any more 1v1s than all the more established meta-builds, and you’re relying on your opponent not being a good player. Good players will beat this build way more than they lose to it.

Of course if you enjoy the challenge of taking a sub-standard build and seeing how often you can win with it then more power to you. I just wish mantras were more interesting and more viable.

Good on you for experimenting and sharing your build though – that is what this place is for, though don’t be discouraged if people point out problems with it… that’s ALSO what this place is for

I consider the immediately preceding remark constructive converse.

My mantra build isn’t “sub-standard”, just, one way to play in a game that propagates build diversity.

Some people look for class builds where it’s nearly impossible for anyone to escape their toon’s damage, I know one person like that personally, ultimately, people look for builds that fit how they want to play – I did the same and shared as such in my first post’s extra text file with the intent to benefit those who are inquisitive about potential/possible Mantra usage.

Sandrox,

In my extra text file I’ve already explained what and what not my mantra build is for.

It’s a game where one of it’s core principles is diversity, you’re free to like whatever you wish for however you wish to play.

Pyroathiest, Handin, and Raunchy (and anyone else of similar dialogue)

All the things you say are valid in the context you present, but, is void of what I shared in my extra text file, as well as, in my previous posts on this topic.

I shared because others showed interest in my build.

I shared particulars about my toon because I wanted to be social.

If you guys are going to continue to ignore what I’ve already addressed, then, I’m just gonna stop responding to you and those of similar dialogue (as I’ve only entertained this farce as long as I was amused).

Like I said in the first post in this topic (if you cared to read it or even acknowledge it):
“If all you want to do is TROLL, then TROLL on.”

Take care.

Hey Ross Biddle,

I understand where you’re coming from, Mantras don’t have any real “gimicky overpowered nigh unavoidable damage” compared to what’s found in other classes, but on that note, I hope ANET continues to balance the other classes so all classes are stripped from overpowered mechanics that are nigh impossible to avoid.

Maybe then, mantras won’t seem so bad.

After all, if a game company starts giving all classes “gimicky overpowered nigh unavoidable damage” mechanics rather than create a balance between all their classes, then the game the game company is behind is doomed for failure in terms of PvP.

Wow guy, just wow.

Just so you know, you just presented damage scenarios implied as UNAVOIDABLE BY ANY CLASS (derived from the time-frames of the burst starting, class mechanic/tactics, and duration of the burst) and try to put it in context of my post… REALLY?!? REALLY?!?

Ok, I now deem you, CAPTAIN TROLL OF ALL TROLLS!!!!

Furthermore, once anyone who is attentive and seeks to actively PvP realizes they’re being attacked, unless their toon is unable to act, will do something of some nature to avoid/mitigate the negative scenario they find themselves in… gah man, I mean really, stop playing against target dummies… it shows in your dialogue.

!TROLL!

Hey Natsu Dragneel,

See my bullets below…

No guardian pyro? :’(

Meditation Guardian

I shield of wrath – JI to you while casting binding blade, wrath pops and you loose 10k health and are knocked down at my feet. I then proceed to 10k+whirlingwrath/smite condition you. You die.

• Well, from the tool tip on “Binding Blade”, JL seems to be a condi immobi, which if so, can be cleansed, seemingly, stopping the series of chained events yielding that burst damage.

Lets not forget rangers!

LB zerkerranger (whatever build it actually is)
I stand 1500 distance from you and rapid fire you for 15k before you get in range then autoattack you for 4-5k until you die.

• Mantras have a range of 1200, so, while I’m getting in range I simply block, evade, evade, then counter as necessary. Now, will it always go as I see it in my mind, no, but, that’s what I usually/typically do and don’t feel to hurt from whatever ranger attack damage I sustained.

=p

Wow, you’re a real class act.

Here you go guy…

Shatter Mesmer
I start at 1200 range in stealth. I blink next to you and do 15k-17k damage in less than 1 second. Then I cast a iZerker on what’s left of you. Unless you have superhuman reactions, you die.

• You forgot to mention that you have to produce clones for your shatter burst which is a dead give-away for “Hey, a mesmer is here!!!”, and if the intended target doesn’t do anything to avoid the shatter burst after seeing the clones produced, then they deserve the nukage. TROLL!

Phantasm Mesmer
I start in stealth. I cast a duelist and a swordsman. Sometime in the next 15 seconds, you die, because the swordsman will do about 7k damage each hit, and the duelist not much less than that. You can try to kill them, but I’ll be stunning and immobing you, and since you have either 0 stunbreaks or 0 condition removals, you die.

• If the intended target doesn’t do anything to avoid the phantasms (like, i dunno, evade twice), then they deserve the nukage. Furthermore, you speak as if you can stay in stealth without end and the intended target won’t be able to act, which, is simply not true. TROLL!

Condition Mesmer
Yeah…this won’t go so well either. You’ll do some damage, you’ll get tagged with the whole smorgasbord of mesmer condie load and eventually die.

• You talk like a condi mesmer is a necro with massive condi spam, and, like the intended target has no way to cleanse condis, and again, as if the intended target won’t be able to act, which all, is simply not true. TROLL!

Glass Thief
Mug cnd backstab, with basilisk venom just for kicks. You’re dead.

Alternatively, shadowstep/stealth pistolwhip. You’re dead.

Alternatively, a couple of autos combined with flanking strike/larcenous strike. You have no stealths, and either no condition removal or no stunbreaks. You can’t escape the thief, and they evade too much to burn down since your build relies on mostly normal attacks instead of burst.

• Wait for your glass thief to become visible, if blinded, cleanse when opportune, then interrupt during an exposing thief attack, stun, burst, glass thief dead unless their expecting such counters. TROLL!

Hambow
Earthshaker hits you. Then you die. Alternatively pin down hits you, and you die (assuming the no condition removal but with stunbreak situation).

• You continue to talk like the intended target can’t evade or do anything, which is simply not true, anyway, if you get hit by earthshaker and warrior not stabilized, interrupt their next offensive and heal while stunned, once you get out, you counter as needed, FURTHERMORE, if you truly ready my extra text file, then you would know the optional tactic I suggested against loss-of-control-of-your-toon pressure builds. TROLL!

Stun-evisc warrior
You’ll get stunned eventually, eat an 8k evisc, and then die at some point.

• What I described for “earthshaker” applies here as well. TROLL!

Condition bomb necro
You only have 4 condition removals. These will be gone rapidly. Shatter builds can stand against necros like this because they can dodge in and out and land heavy burst combos. You don’t have that, you have to do sustained pressure, and the necro does it better, especially when you’re chilled, crippled, have weakness on you.

• Wow… just wow… for necro, interrupt, burst, when they deathshroud, just ‘Polymorph Moa’ then whittle whatever health is left away. TROLL!

Minionmancer necro
These guys are fairly tanky, and they have incredible sustained damage. You don’t have enough heavy aoe to clean up the minions, and not enough defense to actually out-sustain them. You’ll die.

• If you truly read my extra text file, then you would know the optional tactic I suggested against a bunker build. TROLL!

Well, I knew I would get responses like this… but so fast! It’s shocking!!!

I probably would be more conversational and have less of an aggressive debate approach if you weren’t making so much effort to belittle what I had to share, but, a TROLL’s gonna TROLL… TROLL!!

Sorry guy, wasn’t here for launch, so, I had to figure out how I wanted to play mantras after being convinced about their potential.

!TROLL!

And now I also know you don’t care to read what I really had to say based on your amended feedback.

Further more, this post is a social gesture in a social networking medium, and as such, I posted pictures to simply share with intent along the lines of the social environment, sorry if the act of sharing pictures was somehow “not liked” by you and potentially by anyone else coming to this post.

Man, TROLLS gonna TROLL… TROLL ON!!!

Post based off of game mechanics and game build as of Friday, May 9th, 2014 @ 6:00pm EST.
Version 1.2

Giving credit where it is due
Another mesmer convinced me about the potential of mantras and Reefer suggested I use the “Fire” sigils for more dps. Thanks you guys for your chats!

My preferred build variations:
Solo Arena
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraRl0npEtFpxGNMrNipxgqyIdAJkRpLZ8FA-TJBFwACeCAy3foaZAAnCAA

Dueling
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraRl0npEtFpxGNMrNipxgqyIdAJkRpLZ8FA-TJBFwACeCAG3foaZAAnCAA

PvE Single Target
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraRl0npEtFpxGNUrNipxgqyIdAJkRpLZ8FA-TxCFABNcAEC4UAI3+DA8EAKU9nrUCikyPBOQAppvhgDQgyHQgAAHA/23++b++7v/e5lXe5lXuf/93f/93A-e

PvE AoE Damage
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsfWl0npEtFpxGNUrNipxgqyIdAJkRpLZ8FA-TRiFABLcAEgb/hBV/pKlgGp8DgnEwZ6bE4AEg8pEIAwBwv9tv/mv/+7vXe5lXe5l73f/93f/NA-e

Pictures are also attached.

If you want to read more (A LOT more) and perhaps engage in conversation based on my exposition, then see attached file “Xontoss_mantra_build.txt” in a text/word editor with ‘word wrap’ on (trust me, you want to do this).

If all you want to do is TROLL, then TROLL on.

In the famous words of Ryan Higa, “TEEHEE!”

DarcShriek.5829:

KingZmaN.6473:

Simple, easily considered stupid, question:

Do toons need to be a certain level in order to earn 500 in crafting?

Yes, they have to be level 10 before they can reach 500.

Time to take my new harvester, which looks suspiciously like a wine barrel, and harvest some grapes. Unfortunately aren’t grapes time gated?

Thanks for the tip!

I just finished crafting to 500 leatherworking (used crafting boosters from the start) on a new toon (toon was level 2 when I started crafting), my new toon made it to level 10 on the way to 400 crafting – so it’s possible to level to 500 crafting starting with a level 2 toon, don’t waste time trying to level your toon first.

Hope this helps others ;-)