Guild Wars 2

Portal only has a range of 5000. That’s not that far. So either they’re a lot closer than you think, or they’re hidden just behind a hill or something already near the keep. Do a better job of looking around. Mesmers cant run 5000 units stealthed the entire time.

OP is exaggerating and doesn’t understand the ability enough to know how to defend against it.

Bunzy.8674:

Kirrund.2654:

People need to learn Bunzy is just a troll. Every day he makes a new thread that’s completely off base trying to rile people up, but it has just enough to it that he doesn’t get reported.

I actually take offense that you called me a troll, They are legitimate concerns within the game I am discussing. I like to let people know the state of the game and what is happening with the current meta.

You are trolling. You don’t even pretend to have a clue at what you’re talking about; just looking to bait someone into an argument because you have nothing better to do while at work.

People need to learn Bunzy is just a troll. Every day he makes a new thread that’s completely off base trying to rile people up, but it has just enough to it that he doesn’t get reported.

I’m fine with them adding more ‘team oriented’ roles to classes. If you ask me, I think engineers should be able to package up and move deployed immobile siege. Or repair it. Either way.

I am just against the removal of depth, which despite what people say, portal adds.

Also, that only negates a small section of my argument which that part was really just intended to be sarcasm, not really the whole part of it.

Daecollo.9578:

digitalfodder.5086:

Daecollo.9578:

Going through the portal should daze you for 4 seconds and put on a 3 second revealed debuff.

Thats all, it needs no nerfs.

No that is quite clearly a nerf. It would be useless in PvE and as an escape mechanic. Limiting it to group/5 people is fine.

Your escaping a fight, why would you need to attack back? Dazing doesn’t hinder your movement one bit.

It wouldn’t nerf its use in getting places, you can still get to a place inside a keep and wait for 4 seconds. (for example, getting people to a place in PVE, it wouldn’t nerf you there, we always wait before we strike bosses or kill NPCs anyways.)

It wouldn’t nerf you for running away, you can still use it to get far away.

It would however, nerf portal bombing.

No, it would be useless.

Portal is also a kiting mechanic. You can re-enter until it disappears, so if it’s stretched out enough you can use it to relieve pressure off you from melee classes by entering, attacking from the other side, going back through, and so on.

If you made it daze it would literally never be used again.

And limiting it to five players would make it just as terrible. I know personally I’d never use it again. I mean, I’d have to group with anyone I wanted to portal, I could only take 4 people at a time… what if I’m not grouped and I want to save that teammate over there? That’s dumb, and I’m going to use the other side of the argument everyone likes to throw around here… if other 5 target limit spells don’t require a group, why should portal?

I suspect due to Anet’s eventual caving in of all the misinformed/bad players/players who don’t understand higher gameplay, that it will eventually be nerfed in some way. I’ll have a lot of respect for them if they don’t, but I just don’t see that happening. If anything, it should be reverted to 60 seconds and allow a limit of 15 players. However, something like that will prove difficult to implement as (and this is why I say people don’t ‘get it’) portal isn’t just a one way destination even though that’s what people want to see it as. As oftenas not it’s used to jump back and forth between two locations. So, how do you add a 15 player use limit if they want to go back and forth?

Anyway, as far as portal being used so much as an argument that it’s too powerful, makes me laugh. The game is still quite young and by no means have people exhausted all options. This game has a lot of depth and there’s nobody who’s mastered the tactical side of it yet, even if they like to think they have. Right now portal is just the fotm tactic that was once used to by a few and is now more mainstream. The counters already exist, but they’re slowly catching on. Eventually, someone will come up with something else, and that too will transition into being the next fotm tactic. This will only become especially more true as Anet adds (not takes away) new dynamics to the game.

It is WAY too early to judge this stuff. It kills me how people think this already.

I feel like a lot of people still don’t understand portal only has a range of 5000. That’s the distance of the waypoint of the spawn in at EB barely to the bottom of the stairs. It’s obviously large, but not as big as people make it out to be. In order to transport stuff large chunks of the map instantly you would need a lot of of mesmers (at least 10) and those mesmers would need to be strung out at perfect distance. And even with 10, you’d probably only make it to just outside stonemist. But that sort of thing would take some coordination, because stretching the portal range to its maximum limit with no range indicator is difficult, and if you mess it up, that’s 1 minute 30 seconds down the drain.

It isn’t like one guy can just easily teleport tons of people across the map. It’s pretty small distances, relatively speaking. So that big army that teleported on top of you, yeah, they were like right around the corner.

The blackgate chap Esoteric.5490 has it right, but unfortunately most people won’t read his post and will just post the same worthless drivel at the end. In essence, the player base is full of bad players who don’t understand higher components of play/can’t accept they aren’t very good and need to learn to play better.

Portal is fine, stop being a bad player. Counters have been given repeatedly.

As to the tired excuse that portal being the game changer in WvW, well, the simple answer is that in every game people always maximize things. Portal simply has the current limelight. If you remove portal, people will just move onto the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing. That’s how it always is with the good players versus the rest of the player base. Pro players see tools and potential, average players lack creativity and understanding and would rather complain than accept others are perhaps better than them. It’s up to those few pioneers to find the new thing and change the meta so all the average players can get back on the forums again and complain about “imbalances” they don’t have the knowledge to even grasp, while they simultaneously employ those same techniques.

It’s a timeless, tired old saga that happens in every competitive game. And nine times out of ten, it leads to the de-evolution of depth.

Phzt.9864:

The downed state puts a soft limit on small group warfare. Too many posts are focusing on even numbers or 1v2, 1v3. What people are complaining about is how it effects those numbers magnified to 5v15, 10v20, etc. The downed state mechanic gets more favorable for the larger/defending side the larger the fight is, which is a detriment to this game becoming something like DAOC, among other things. I understand why they put downed state in for spvp and pve, and I think they should stay there, but in WvW, it’s hindering the game’s progress toward a skill driven, small scale warfare game.

There’s nothing more discouraging then fighting a 5v13 and downing 20 people, losing none of your own because of the inability to finish. You will eventually lose or just need to run simply because they had more people that pressed a single button. In small scale, sacrificing one utility/weapon skill/class skill that ensures a finish is acceptable, but as numbers increase, the value of survival abilities scales higher as well. Popping them for finishers means you will probably die.

We have played this game DAOC style since like 2 weeks after the game released. Never had any problems. Don’t know what all the fuss is about/get good/get more damage/get better teamwork etc etc etc. Tired of trying to argue this just because some people can’t do it and want to selectively ignore things they don’t like.

Seems like a spec and gear problem to me. You do realize people have more than 2k hp right? After watching your video you got some mAsSiVe 1000 damage crits there. You talk about our guardian being bad and unskilled but he does more damage in one telebubble than you do in 10 minutes. That’s a problem.

Stiv.1820:

The fact I run solo most of the time defiantly puts me in the worst case since I have effectively removed myself from benefiting from this mechanic. If I see 6 guys from different guilds, a few down arrows and whatever else yea it’s not really an issue. Half the time they don’t even try to revive or one guy does it too late and honestly even if I do or don’t finish all these guys it hardly matters because who cares?

The times it sucks is when I run into a guild group of 5 or so. Usually they are camping somewhere in the EB Jump puzzle. These people are coordinated enough to knockback or stability rez but the mere fact I can dance around the base area of the JP downing one after another by itself means they are terrible. Do you think I could do that to your group? Those are the type of people this mechanic helps more than anything. If there were no downed state at all, I bet your group would perform just as well, you wouldn’t have to focus so much on using/countering that mechanic.

You like it, and I can see why you do. You run with enough people to maximize it and with enough DPS to kill people without even having to stomp. Any grouping on a smaller scale is just not near as viable. I would bet most people who are against it have my play-style, solo to 3 max. It doesn’t matter what my skill level is because there will always be people worse and that’s what I’m talking about.

Well, I don’t just like it, I think it adds excitement and intensity to the fights. Getting that crazy rally at the last second, or getting a scary close pickup in the middle of a bunch of enemies. It’s the kind of stuff that makes you scream and cheer. Without it, the fights would be quite a bit more boring.

I can understand for a solo player that it might be a little frustrating, but to me you just gave an example of (imo) what you should and should not be able to do. You say that in the jumping puzzle you can down players because they’re coordinated enough to use their skills a bit better, but not quite enough to actually win. Well, that’s okay. But against a better group, you have no chance. I really don’t see a problem with this. You have to understand that just because you can down someone super fast amongst their group doesn’t make them bad. Or because they made a mistake here or there doesn’t make them bad. Even good players make mistakes. There’s a lot of situations where there’s just not a whole lot you can do to keep yourself from being downed, due to the way that the game is balanced and the way that it works. If you’re out of cd’s, low on endurance, whatever. Sometimes, you’re just going to go down when someone unloads their burst or full combo or whatever.

The game’s damage output and total health pool is balanced around the downed state though. The downed state isn’t just some tack on to a balanced combat system, some extra addition thrown in to the mix, no, it is part of the combat system as a whole. Do you understand what I mean? Without the downed state, they would need to rework all damage amounts, all health levels, all that stuff. I think too many people have the WoW (or other MMO) mentality about this particular mechanic, and see it as two separate things.

As for solo roaming, you could always just accept that as a solo roamer, there’s things you just can’t do. You are playing WvW after all, a game type meant for coordination, teamwork, and yes, larger numbers. There will never be a game that has things balanced for solo roamers versus groups. And I think personally that it’s okay to sacrifice the “funness” of a solo roamer’s enjoyability for more depth and intensity in larger scale fights. You get more overall out of it.

Find more solo roamers, or create a guild for it, and invite all the known solo roamers into it. Form your group, and start working together. If you can get 5 people you can amplify what you do, and you’ll have more fun in the end, I guarantee.

Bunzy.8674:

Kirrund.2654:

Bunzy.8674:

Kirrund.2654:

That’s not me. Your reading comprehension is pretty atrocious tbh. Also, the first one is not just one single fight. There’s several fights where players don’t go down, and we fight 6-8 times our number and come out on top. Your argument was also about how downed state only helps skilless players. So, because we use downed state when far outnumbered we’re obviously not skilled.

Your argument is quickly breaking down. If you run a small group and can’t take out larger numbers, complaining that the downed skill is the reason why, but we can, but yet we’re bad because we used the downed skill(something that is only supposed to help zergs and hurt small groups); wait a minute, what?

You don’t want to accept that you’re wrong, and that you’re not god’s gift to pvp and that you need more practice and should re-evaluate how you play.

You aren’t taking out large numbers -.- you are fighting like ~10 people. They are also underlevelled and undergeared. You are lucky you are on a bottom tier match up. I think if you guys are serious you should transfer to Ehmry Bay.

Yep, you clearly opened and immediately closed the link. I’m not going to do the work for you and find the timestamps. The fights are in there. You’re the one with the problem, who can’t figure out how to win. I also said we already transferred to dragonbrand. Nothing changed. Still wiping outnumbering groups. Do you just like skim everything or what?

Well hopefully Dragonbrand ends up versing Maguuma thats all I am going to say on this matter.

Also if you want to watch a video where the enemy actually attempts to res their fallen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npQFOrc4Gxg for you.

Right, because there’s nothing else you can say. You’ve already been proven wrong, you won’t admit to it, and that’s fine. Go ahead and make a few more threads complaining about the downed state, instead of swallowing your pride and trying to approach your problem from a better angle. I look forward to squashing zergs on Maguuma if/when it ever happens. I am not saying that we’re the best in the world or that we never lose. There are zergs that are simply so unmanageable in numbers that they are too much. But there is certainly video evidence of at least one 3-7 man group taking on numbers 30, 40, and 50 at a time, and winning, whether you want to accept that or not. Good players look for ways to win and accept that there is always something to learn, always a way to get better. Bad players refuse to adapt, and instead complain about stuff they blame for their loss.

As for the video, you 4 were fighting about 8 players. You also went down and died at 2:45, and your group was scattered and not sticking together. Amazing video play. 10/10

Bunzy.8674:

Kirrund.2654:

That’s not me. Your reading comprehension is pretty atrocious tbh. Also, the first one is not just one single fight. There’s several fights where players don’t go down, and we fight 6-8 times our number and come out on top. Your argument was also about how downed state only helps skilless players. So, because we use downed state when far outnumbered we’re obviously not skilled.

Your argument is quickly breaking down. If you run a small group and can’t take out larger numbers, complaining that the downed skill is the reason why, but we can, but yet we’re bad because we used the downed skill(something that is only supposed to help zergs and hurt small groups); wait a minute, what?

You don’t want to accept that you’re wrong, and that you’re not god’s gift to pvp and that you need more practice and should re-evaluate how you play.

You aren’t taking out large numbers -.- you are fighting like ~10 people. They are also underlevelled and undergeared. You are lucky you are on a bottom tier match up. I think if you guys are serious you should transfer to Ehmry Bay.

Yep, you clearly opened and immediately closed the link. I’m not going to do the work for you and find the timestamps. The fights are in there. You’re the one with the problem, who can’t figure out how to win. I also said we already transferred to dragonbrand. Nothing changed. Still wiping outnumbering groups. Do you just like skim everything or what?

As far as ressing and downing, someone has to do it. If you’re the person who just runs around assuming that finishing a target is someone else’s job, well, you’re being the opposite of a team player. A team is comprised of individuals who fill roles and work together for a common goal. They’ll always be more effective than the same amount of players who just run around doing whatever they want on the fly. This is probably why you are not doing as well as you think you should, and rather than finding a solution, wish to complain that it is clearly the game’s fault.

Stiv.1820:

Kirrund.2654:

Stiv.1820:

Kirrund.2654:

Stiv.1820:

The mechanic is horrible of WvW and just fine in PvE and even sPvP. It will never get changed though. If you hate the downed state, best learn to deal with it. Think about the type of player who would like that kind of mechanic and then think about the vast majority of WvW players. There you have it.

Kirrund.2654:

More complaints about the downed state. I’ll say the same thing I’ve said in all the other threads; our small group wipes zergs all the time and likes the downed state and doesn’t have a problem with it. You’re probably just not as good as you think you are and still have more to learn. Sorry. The downed state helps us small groups too. You’re just doing it wrong.

The problem isn’t so much for small groups. It’s that one or two skilled people should be able to wipe a group of 5 players who are terrible. Right now all of them hitting F (skill) at once or just a knockback prevents that. Perhaps the downed state is what allows your group not to get wiped by a single player and that’s why you like it.

LOL. What makes you think those players are terrible? Because you deem it so? You’re probably just a bad player because you can’t deal with the downed state. You don’t understand the higher concepts in this game (or any competitive game) and can’t see why downed state is a unique mechanic that’s actually pretty interesting of a game dynamic. I can make baseless assumptions too.

Do you think you’re good just because you can run into a group of 3-4 players and spam all your glass cannon button sequences in the correct order and expect to win? Anyone can do that. Any joe can read a guide and do that.That’s not what makes you good at this game. What makes you good is teamwork, map awareness, positioning, and smart use of abilities/combo fields, knowing when to apply pressure and when not to. Just because you have a rotation and you can put out burst doesn’t make you any good. MOST people by now can do that.

I actually run a condition spec with zero burst but routinely take out 3+ people yes. They are terrible, yes because I run into solos of every profession that put up real fights.

I deal with downed state because it’s not going anywhere I’m just saying it severely limits the solo/duo play-style in WvW. You can say that play-style shouldn’t exist and that’s your opinion.

It works for you because you get be an amazing healer on demand when your teammate gets his 2nd lifebar. Having 2 people stability rez or one aoe knock-back is not an interesting or skillful mechanic at all. The one or two guys who got one of your teammates down by outplaying you was skilled. Even if I was a burst spec, you have counters to it you probably don’t even bother using because of downed state.

Clearly of a case of “its skill when I do it, you’re bad when you do it.”

What are you talking about? Only thing I can think of is reviving people who are downed? How am I reviving people when I’m solo?

Your the exact type of player this system helps. Any coordinated group can abuse this mechanic. If you beat an uncoordinated 30 man zerg with 5 people that shows nothing. If that zerg were coordinated but 1/4 as skilled they would win because you would never be able to finish a single one. When I take on 6 uncoordinated players I can win a 1 to 6 ratio as well. The problem is coordinated vs coordinated but outnumbered.

That’s also not necessarily true, because we’ve fought coordinated zergs as well and when multiple players try to pickup those players are usually already damaged. We use pulls, knockbacks and aoe daze to stop recovery, and usually a bunch of people sitting there trying to rez/pickup one guy while we lay into them is a death sentence. If they use stability to rez then we made them blow cooldowns and far more people are going down faster than they can all be picked up. If people are picking up downed they aren’t doing anything, and they also aren’t dodging or moving; they’re soaking damage. There’s also always quickness dunking as well.

Your argument is fairly weak. You complain that downed state keeps you from solo vs x, but go on to say that you have no problem soloing 6 players who are uncoordinated. So what’s the complaint? Is everybody that you run into just some godmode amazing player that’s totally coordinated? I know that’s not the case, because there just aren’t that many good players. (Just like in every game)

Coordination is part of skill. Why do you assume that because you aren’t able to take out 6 coordinated players that you’re automatically better than them and deserve to win? You obviously have a high opinion of your skill level, far beyond the actual value.

That’s not me. Your reading comprehension is pretty atrocious tbh. Also, the first one is not just one single fight. There’s several fights where players don’t go down, and we fight 6-8 times our number and come out on top. Your argument was also about how downed state only helps skilless players. So, because we use downed state when far outnumbered we’re obviously not skilled.

Your argument is quickly breaking down. If you run a small group and can’t take out larger numbers, complaining that the downed skill is the reason why, but we can, but yet we’re bad because we used the downed skill(something that is only supposed to help zergs and hurt small groups); wait a minute, what?

You don’t want to accept that you’re wrong, and that you’re not god’s gift to pvp and that you need more practice and should re-evaluate how you play.

Stiv.1820:

Kirrund.2654:

Stiv.1820:

The mechanic is horrible of WvW and just fine in PvE and even sPvP. It will never get changed though. If you hate the downed state, best learn to deal with it. Think about the type of player who would like that kind of mechanic and then think about the vast majority of WvW players. There you have it.

Kirrund.2654:

More complaints about the downed state. I’ll say the same thing I’ve said in all the other threads; our small group wipes zergs all the time and likes the downed state and doesn’t have a problem with it. You’re probably just not as good as you think you are and still have more to learn. Sorry. The downed state helps us small groups too. You’re just doing it wrong.

The problem isn’t so much for small groups. It’s that one or two skilled people should be able to wipe a group of 5 players who are terrible. Right now all of them hitting F (skill) at once or just a knockback prevents that. Perhaps the downed state is what allows your group not to get wiped by a single player and that’s why you like it.

LOL. What makes you think those players are terrible? Because you deem it so? You’re probably just a bad player because you can’t deal with the downed state. You don’t understand the higher concepts in this game (or any competitive game) and can’t see why downed state is a unique mechanic that’s actually pretty interesting of a game dynamic. I can make baseless assumptions too.

Do you think you’re good just because you can run into a group of 3-4 players and spam all your glass cannon button sequences in the correct order and expect to win? Anyone can do that. Any joe can read a guide and do that.That’s not what makes you good at this game. What makes you good is teamwork, map awareness, positioning, and smart use of abilities/combo fields, knowing when to apply pressure and when not to. Just because you have a rotation and you can put out burst doesn’t make you any good. MOST people by now can do that.

I actually run a condition spec with zero burst but routinely take out 3+ people yes. They are terrible, yes because I run into solos of every profession that put up real fights.

I deal with downed state because it’s not going anywhere I’m just saying it severely limits the solo/duo play-style in WvW. You can say that play-style shouldn’t exist and that’s your opinion.

It works for you because you get be an amazing healer on demand when your teammate gets his 2nd lifebar. Having 2 people stability rez or one aoe knock-back is not an interesting or skillful mechanic at all. The one or two guys who got one of your teammates down by outplaying you was skilled. Even if I was a burst spec, you have counters to it you probably don’t even bother using because of downed state.

Clearly of a case of “its skill when I do it, you’re bad when you do it.”

You didn’t watch any of the videos and see where we would fight 30+ with 5. You also ignored the part where we transferred to Dragonbrand and did it again. I can see why you don’t have much success, because you don’t pay attention.

Stiv.1820:

The mechanic is horrible of WvW and just fine in PvE and even sPvP. It will never get changed though. If you hate the downed state, best learn to deal with it. Think about the type of player who would like that kind of mechanic and then think about the vast majority of WvW players. There you have it.

Kirrund.2654:

More complaints about the downed state. I’ll say the same thing I’ve said in all the other threads; our small group wipes zergs all the time and likes the downed state and doesn’t have a problem with it. You’re probably just not as good as you think you are and still have more to learn. Sorry. The downed state helps us small groups too. You’re just doing it wrong.

The problem isn’t so much for small groups. It’s that one or two skilled people should be able to wipe a group of 5 players who are terrible. Right now all of them hitting F (skill) at once or just a knockback prevents that. Perhaps the downed state is what allows your group not to get wiped by a single player and that’s why you like it.

LOL. What makes you think those players are terrible? Because you deem it so? You’re probably just a bad player because you can’t deal with the downed state. You don’t understand the higher concepts in this game (or any competitive game) and can’t see why downed state is a unique mechanic that’s actually pretty interesting of a game dynamic. I can make baseless assumptions too.

Do you think you’re good just because you can run into a group of 3-4 players and spam all your glass cannon button sequences in the correct order and expect to win? Anyone can do that. Any joe can read a guide and do that.That’s not what makes you good at this game. What makes you good is teamwork, map awareness, positioning, and smart use of abilities/combo fields, knowing when to apply pressure and when not to. Just because you have a rotation and you can put out burst doesn’t make you any good. MOST people by now can do that.

Downed state is good, and fine for small group play. Check the OTHER thread for video links if you want.

More complaints about the downed state. I’ll say the same thing I’ve said in all the other threads; our small group wipes zergs all the time and likes the downed state and doesn’t have a problem with it. You’re probably just not as good as you think you are and still have more to learn. Sorry. The downed state helps us small groups too. You’re just doing it wrong.

Here are some videos, fast forward to the big fights if you like.

Our guardian POV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdJgVZ4eAUQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvPm5GLBpfI
Our thief POV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PgL1Gwgc_8

Will eventually have videos from my POV as well as engineer.

These aren’t specially recorded only when we win, we have lots of video just pick out the particularly memorable fights. I play almost every night and we probably have about an 80% success rate, rarely ever die. Say what you want about Gate of Madness being in a lower tier, we just transferred to Dragonbrand and did the same thing again last night. There’s wipeable zergs in every tier, its all about your play and your teamwork.

The tankcat build is for support. You don’t understand the usefulness and the dynamic of the build because you’re not as good as you’d like to think (most people are too stubborn to accept this, but that’s okay) No other class in the game can do what it does, even if other classes spec bunker.

What he does in our group is since we typically have 5-8 people going against 40+, he runs around and soaks damage and assists on picking our teammates up. This is an extremely important job, perhaps moreso than any amount of damage output that any class can do. Why is that? Because think about it. If a smaller group downs 8-10 people, those people are down. But if a single person from your group dies, then those 8-10 people all rally off you. It is extremely important that when taking out larger numbers nobody on your team dies. Ever. And the tankcat is always right there to ensure that doesn’t happen. The tankcat also is unmatched in finishing downed opponents, something that the other classes can’t do because they’re not as tanky, and they’re also more efficient doing something else.

Most people don’t “get it” though. After having explained it, however, if you prefer to see BIG NUMBERS and TONS OF DAMAGE then either you’ll need to wait for class updates or just pick another class, because I can assure you, the engineer falls far short of other big damage classes like thief or guardian.

It’s kind of like saying nobody wants to play the healer. Well, if you want to win (you do want to win, don’t you?) and you want to be part of a team, you have to play the position you’re good at. It may not be the superstar role that everybody cheers at, but it’s certainly just as important of a role, because without it, everything falls apart, and that superstar guy you’re so jealous of can’t do his thing either.

Stealth stomping is infinitely worse than quickness stomping.

I think the problem here is players are not as good as they’d like to think they are! So many small groups complaining about downed state and how its impossible to take larger numbers. Ever thought maybe you’re just not that great? Maybe you’re doing it wrong? Maybe your teamwork is not efficient enough, or you’re making too many mistakes?

Because my small group of 3-7 kills groups of 30+ in droves and has been doing it for about 2 months now. People dropping down to rez is usually a death sentence for them. It’s all about those interrupts and aoe damage on stacking players.

It’s important to know how to stay alive when facing larger groups… because if you die die, then you just rallied 8 people.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

mischwoof.9785:

Fraeg.9837:

Now your guilds Engineer, does s/he have any videos to post?

I will have some up soon. :>

As for Shrack’s video and the state of thieves; it’s not really meant to be a simple thief damage showcase. Our group is built around supporting Incomingray and Shrack, and it’s an example of what thieves are capable of with organized support, and also how we set up our fights :>. While it’s true that thieves simply do higher damage than other classes if full zerker specced, and that shrack could probably destroy a small group of unaware players by himself, if you watch the video we set up our initiation so that shrack and ray can maximize their AoE damage, which is worth something! He can’t have all the credit :p

That being said, I think that when the stealth rendering issue is fixed, everyone will be a lot less bitter about thieves. Everyone can agree, even the thieves, that the culling problem is a bit silly.

You guys have any tpvp videos?

Not yet, but eventually.

We’ve all done that style of pvp to high rankings in other games. Just waiting on it to be more fleshed out in gw2 before heading in there. And WvW is more exciting, fun and intense, anyway.

jkctmc.8754:

@Kirrund

Others do it too brother, and it is just that much easier on a Thief. I have 4 80s; Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and a Thief. When I get on my Thief, it is a world of difference, and I can enter into a massive fight, and come out with 30-50 badges of honor.

It seems the second I steatlh, no one can see me for minutes from that point on, I just wade through, and pick my kills. Every now and then throwing one Cloak and Dagger if I start to take damage.

I can not do that on any of my other toons, because they can be targeted. This game has some of the worst rendering I’ve seen in any PvP game, second only to Aion, which oddly enough was created by the same people.

I have an extremely fast computer, and even I’ve seen issues where the opposing zerg did not show up on my screen until I was in thier midst. I waded in thinking I saw only a couple groups, and found out there were probably 50 there. On my other toons, they die in this situation, but on my Thief, I stealth, and get a lot of badges.

But you missed the point of my post. We don’t abuse culling. It is very clear since the opposing zerg is already rendered for themselves, and we’re only a small group of players not using stealth before colliding. Yes, culling happens in the game, but mostly on much larger scale fights is it a problem. Only a very small % of the time are there hordes of people I can’t see until they’re right on top of me, and my computer is garbage. So, while culling does happen, going off on a tangent about it is pretty much irrelevant to the points I listed. Our rogues get targeted heaps and through assisting and careful play we are able to help mitigate what would otherwise be death.

It was just a video to show people what could be done so maybe some players could learn and maybe change their playstyle to be more effective. Instead of “oh thats kitten anyone can do that even though i dont i could if i wanted /yawn”

To be clear, if it’s such faceroll then why don’t other players do it? And there’s no culling abuse either. That would be a waste of a valuable relief of pressure that is needed later in the fight. If you watch the video all the way, almost every fight he flat out runs right into the middle of players and our team members support each other.

How about this? A lot of thieves will try to do the same to us and they either go down instantly or don’t kill anyone. A lot of the skill comes not just from hitting the right button combinations (anyone can do that) but from
1.positioning
2. knowing when to get in and when to get out
3.awareness
4.knowing how to layer combos in the appropriate situation

I realize the video does not highlight #4 as much, but that is only applicable to those particular clips.

And at the end of the day its still a group of 3-7 taking on 30+
We have probably a 90% win rate doing this.
If everyone even hits their #1 key once on one person thats a lot of damage. Its hard managing that type of pressure with aoes and what not flying around, and still come out on top. I know in these big fights a lot of times I have like 10 people just on me alone and it takes every trick I can muster to hang by a shred of life and still manage to eke out a win.

I disagree with everything you stated except for people logging off while downed. And they won’t really be able to stop that.

The Mystic Forge Conduit is an awesome item. Anyone who is telling you otherwise doesn’t have one, or doesn’t understand what’s so great about it.

I use mine constantly. I have 80 inventory slots, and often times in WvW or in a dungeon or when farming I will fill up but be able to leave, and I can take the greens and transmute them into rares while out on the field, thus saving tons of space (and items I othewise wouldn’t have been able to carry)

I will probably never sell it, I use it that much.

You do realize that it’s the music that makes him do that much damage, right?

A guardian and thief are extremely beneficial. The rest of the classes can be worked out but those two work off each other exceptionally well.

Mikitten058:

HtFde.3856:

Mikitten058:

In my view I think it’s unfair how they have AOE caps, but don’t put a cap on amount of people through portals. […] Cap Portals to 5 people, just how AOE’s and Healing are capped, or remove both AOE and Healing caps.

Comparing apples and lemons here. AoE is capped so that not a single ele can nuke 100+ people. Healing is capped so that 1 ele cannot keep 100+ people alive all by himself. A portal transports people from A to B, nothing more – it does not hurt people, it does not heal people it does not give buffs, it does not debuff enemies (unless you spend a LOT of points in glamour).

The rest of your statement is plain wrong. You only get wiped if you do not see the portal and keep bashing at doors until you’re wiped. If you see the portal you DO have numerous ways to react – same as you have against turtles. It appears to me, however, that you’re simply clueless on how to counter and therefore cry for a nerf.

Enemies from a portal suffer from culling issues as much as those the portal is directed against and you’re cute in claiming that it’s easier for enemies to dispose of widely spread targets than of closer spaced ones.

Edit: So the enemy comes at you in a turtle without a portal – how does that change your situation – you’ll still wipe if you can’t handle them – the method of transportation is meaningless.

Even if you lay AOE’s on the portal, your aoe will only hit 5 targets at the same time. If there are 30 in the small group and they do not move then your AOE hits 5/30. It is not guarentee’d to even hit the same person the next time.
Also, it leaves it to where those in the turtle group can out heal the damage.

It’s like a lottery pick 5 of 30 you might hit. If they are also spamming rezz, then that downed player will be up in a second.

Now multiple it by those 30 hitting all their aoe’s on a guaranteed person in 1 direction but imagine people spamming aoe’s on a group to the north, east, south, west sides.

Each non portaled player would have a .2% chance to hit someone more then once, while the ones in a portal would have a 1.5% chance to hit the same player more then once. (Provided there are 30 on each side, and the people who take the portal stand still, while the other side is spread out.)
(So the non portaled group in total has a 6% chance to hit the portaled group twice in a row, where the portal group has a 45% chance total to hit the non portal group.)

.2% is from:
30 people, divided by 30= 1 for 1 spot. Then divide that by limit to AOE’s (aka 5 limit)

1.5% is from:
30 people, divided by 4 directions into a number of 7.5 then divided by 5 players 1 aoe can hit.

So no, it’s not apples to oranges. It was my opinion, and I am entitled to such. (Then again I’m hoping I did the math right, I suck at math, and being sleepy really doesn’t help at all.)

If portals were limited to 5 players each through them, then the chances would be equal on both sides. I am not just “crying for nerf” though I am crying for “balance”.
Limit players which can use 1 portal just as everything else has been limited or remove the other limits, or turtling system in general. Althoguh I do think if the limit a portal to work for 5 players, I do think cool down should be put back to the original.

Plus for PvE and sPvP you dont need to portal 30+ people. Most the time mesmers portal themselves. Also I have a mesmer I play, so no, it’s also not because I don’t play the class.

No.

If your players are paying attention and all land their aoes on the stacked portal bombers,they should win.

If it was not so, they our team of 7 aoes would not wipe out zergs of stacked 30+ repeatedly.

You have an advantage over them portal bombing. Both teams are affected by culling, but you know where they are because you see the portal.

The problem that nobody wants to admit is that it takes coordination to portal bomb, and it takes coordination to aoe a portal bomb, but one of these things isn’t happening… aka, a coordinated force is beating an uncoordinated force. But nobody likes to take fault. It obviously had to be another reason than their own mistake.

Excession.2198:

Kirrund.2654:

Right. And the game has not been out long enough for all these people on the forums to fully grasp the entirety of the game. Portal isn’t 10x better than everything else.

Lets put it into a bit of perspective shall we.

There have been many, many posts from people, complaining about a Thief being able to stealth into a group of people, kill one, or even some, of them, then the Thief can stealth out to safety.

Many people have posted here, in this forum, crying about it, wanting it to be nerfed, claiming it is OP, shouldnt be allowed, etc etc.

Now, here we have a Mesmer, who can also stealth into a group of people, but the Mesmer can drop a portal, and allow an infinite number of people to follow them, and kill a lot more than just one, or some, of the group of people, then the Mesmer can portal back out to safety.

Now, you may be right, the Mesmer portal bomb may not be ten times better than everything else, but it is infinitely better than the most complained about class/mechanic on the forums, and the game has certainly been out long enough for people to see that.

No it isn’t.

Just because people complained about thieves, and thieves getting a damage nerf, does not make them justified. The people who complain about stealth are either complaining about culling issues, or need to accept the fact that they aren’t god’s gift to pvp, and never will be as such.

The game actually hasn’t been out long enough for everyone to figure out the most optimal tricks. Nobody has mastered this game yet. To state otherwise is ludicrous. Just because a bunch of people whine on the forums about everything en masse ( a small vocal amount that even post on the forums) doesn’t make them right. Usually, the majority is wrong because the majority are mediocre and don’t understand high concepts of play.

You’re trying to say that most people actually know what they’re talking about, which is foolish in anything that takes skill. They just haven’t figured it out yet.

Ralathar.7236:

I just want mesmer to be overall useful instead of a gimmick classes based around a few powerful abilities. Currently the later is preventing some help to the former IMO. Not that mesmer is helpless or anything atm. It’s not.

Currently that’s just speculation on your part. The game is still young enough that real in depth class balancing hasn’t started to pour in yet. These things take time. In every MMO ever, it always has. That’s it. It’s not because the two people on class changes are sitting there going “But they have Temporal Curtain. It’s too good. They don’t need any changes. Next.”

This is actually a great group build also. The thing is, with his gear setup and build, he’s nearly unkillable. In our small 5-7 man groups, his entire job is running around turbo dunking or turbo rezzing allies, and body blocking shots. I can’t count how many times he’s rezzed someone important in the middle of 20 people while taking a ridiculous amount of hits.

it’s also a lot of skill jealousy. One class has a skill unique amongst all other MMOs, and that’s just not fair.

I make anywhere from 2g (no rare drops, just greens and blues) to 5g+ (yellows, or exotics) a night over just about 3 hours of playing. But then again, I run with a 6-7 man group and we farm zergs, getting tons of bags.

Right. And the game has not been out long enough for all these people on the forums to fully grasp the entirety of the game. Portal isn’t 10x better than everything else.

Essentially, if you have a finite number of class slots, then when you want to pull off a particular combo (portal bomb, shadow refuge, w/e) the more of that class you need to pull it off, the less of other classes you have. It’s too constricting. 5 is just too little to work with, especially if you want to pull off something complex with large groups. It limits your class options quite a bit, and makes group composition more cookie cutter. A creative game such as gw2 should push for the opposite… more options, less cookie cutter. I am certain they will add more elite and utility skills as useful on a wide scale in wvw as portal,time warp, shadow refuge, wall of reflection, etc etc (there’s a good bit more)

Its better if people are patient and wait for more depth, instead of complaining and destroying the depth already present, just because their class can’t do it, and “thats not fair.”

Just imo. Yeah, I play a mesmer. Would not complain if portal was on an elementalist instead. Still benefits me, just group with an elementalist. I dont complain about shadow refuge (an incredibly powerful skill that people dont seem to get)… I group with a thief.

I see tools, and I use them. Instead of complaining.

The best solution is to think of new things to add, instead of taking away depth that’s already in the game. Removing interesting mechanics to homogenize gameplay is not a good design decision.

Also, portal is not limited to 5 targets because it doesnt do damage. People still dont understand that damage aoes were limited to five targets so two people couldnt gtaoe down 100. It’s really easy to comprehend imo.

I disagree with the shadow refuge change but I can sort of see why. 15 second invisibility on unlimited players might be more annoying and potentially abusive than transferring unlimited players from point a to point b. Just a guess on why they may have done it. I still think it shouldnt have been changed and would consider it a unique aspect of play.

If they insist on capping targets on non damaging abilities, it should be 15. 15 is a good number, not too large, not too small. 5 is way too little for any ally based buff, period. It requires an over abundance of a particular class to get that effect on enough people, and destroys the unique class interactivity from all these different ways to layer class skills or combo.

In reality, the skill is fine as is. The majority of players don’t even know where their dodge button is, so really don’t have the knowledge to make more complex decisions like game balance. It didn’t even need an extra 30 second cooldown.

Given that change, however, it will probably be iteratively nerfed into uselessness. And then the bad players will focus on something else to blame for their lack of proficiency with the tools given them.

That’s how these things work.

Man those crazy ‘rouges.’

It’s a pretty good ability. It’s just suffers from the fact that we have better ones. But I think it’s probably one of my favorite abilities for coolness even though I don’t really use it. I’m sure it could find its way into a specific build type, however, like a bunker build or some such.

It does a lot more than what the tooltip states, btw.

It channels for 4 seconds. While you’re channeling it, you will absorb the next projectile attack. That attack does full damage on you, and changes your skill to Echo. However, the remaining duration of Mimic is still active and after absorbing one projectile you will block everything for the entire duration(whatever is left of the initial 4 seconds), including all melee and ranged attacks. So, it is a great blocking skill to buy time on a short cooldown, provided you can actually block a projectile with it. Once you have absorbed a projectile and Mimic has been replaced with Echo, Mimic immediately starts cooling down behind Echo even if you haven’t used it yet. I haven’t timed how long you can hold onto a skill, but I do know Echo lasts for at least over a minute which is a long time. It’s certainly possible to hold onto the stolen skill long enough for mimic to come back so that when you use your stolen skill, Mimic is ready to be used again.

My god your screen. How do you see anything with all that clutter? You’re like looking through a port hole.

It’s not proof that mesmer portals need to be removed. They’re fine. It’s just proof that GoM needs to actually pay attention to the map and respond to defend their keep. More than enough time to defend against 5 players with a single ram…

Either that, or GoM just didn’t have anyone to defend.

After all, we tried to do that today against BP on an undefended keep and after getting the gate to 1/4th 100 players rushed out.

The Downed State is fine, it helps small groups just as much if not more than large groups. When the zerg with its greater numbers turns on you and spikes you, you can still be picked up instead of just insta-dying. Also it helps make a trap where the zerg will try to pick someone up and then those people will also die because they’re so easily clustered up now for big damage. Perhaps you’re just not as good as you think you should be, because my group doesn’t have any problems with it.

-signed, small group pvp

Aga.8641:

Thieves can still Steal while casting other abilities, which was a bigger issue (imo).

Every class can do this.

If you have an instant cast teleport ability of any kind, you can use it in the middle of any other channeled ability or cast.

Plok.6145:

Talk about being board, NEWL, camping the norther supply camp, killing people that straggle out one at a time. Good stuff.

Yeah, smacking the bee nest is what we do. But it would be nice having a challenge to our small group for once. You are most welcome to try.

Until then, that camp and any other camps will belong to us as long as we’re around.

Make some friends. Run with a group.

aliquis.9180:

nachtnebel.9168:

aliquis.9180:

Daboom.1987:

I’m also talking about Mad King dungeon

I’m kind of upset about that one too. I don’t mind the tower jump puzzle, which I could just ignore. But I killed the MK twice and was never able to make it to the chest. I think it stinks to screw people over like that.

This might sound a little harsh, but if you are really not able to reach the third floor I really hope that they will never let you drive a car. You have to jump once to reach the second floor and twice to reach the third and both times their is no time pressure involved. You also don’t even have to move, just stand their and take a leap forward and you will reach the flying rock or the floor. All you have to do is to hit space and w shortly afterwards.

You’re right. That does sound harsh, and pretty silly too because I’ve been driving very well for 31 years now. But I have vertigo and motion sickness really bad, so I can’t use an escalator, for example. I’ve never made it to the third platform, and I have no idea where I land because I have to close my eyes when I start falling to keep my stomach from turning.

Group with a Mesmer and have them drop a portal for you while they do the jumps. Easy fix.

Aether Cerulean.3675:

1) Because holidays are about participation and fellowship, not about exclusion and reminding people of real-life inequities. Above all, in a computer game, it is possible for everyone to have everything. It’s just too hard to let your inferiors forget their worries for a few days?

…sounds like you have some sort of complex.

AveryFarman.2973:

Chrollo.2173:

I like…can’ turn in mid air. I have to land and turn like a kitten I watched some videos of people doing it online and it seems like they have the pathing memorized…which scares me how many times it probably took them to get like that.

I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not falling, but I’m just not fast enough. That beginning part with the rubble is the hardest part of the whole thing…it’s like designed ti discourage and frustrate people!

As others have posted, the designer apparently only wanted 1 in 20 players to actually complete it. It is, in fact, specifically designed to discourage and frustrate 19 out of 20 players.

-Why- the designer thought that was a good idea for a limited-time special event, however, is a different and more puzzling question.

It, in fact, designed to be a fun, enjoyable challenge. I don’t think it’s fair to infer that it was specifically designed to frustrate and discourage 19 out of 20 players. There’s zero evidence to base that statement on. On the contrast, everyone is encouraged to try! You might find it frustrating because you are unable to do it and feel entitled to it regardless, but that’s on you. There’s nothing in the design to frustrate or discourage anyone.

Cyric.7485:

Caelib.2497:

SolarNova.1052:

Caelib.2497:

7 page forum thread on Clock Tower. Conclusion: design fail.

Conclusion: To many whinners wanting things handed ot them on silver platter

Nope. People want to be able to participate in SPECIAL EVENT content without spending their entire weekend trying to complete one activity.

Sometimes the fair comes to town. Some people don’t like rollercoasters. They usually don’t ride them.

He’s right. What keeps you and everyone else from participating, exactly? By trying (fail or not) you have participated. This event is open to anyone who wishes to try. By not completing this you have not hindered yourself in any way… however, every time you whine on the forums could have been time spent participating in other events.