Guild Wars 2

Good luck to all three servers! It’s good to have the old gang back together again. =)

/salute

Good luck to all three servers!

/salute

Good luck to all three servers!

/salute

ikite.3814:

GL to all Servers. Should be a fun week.

Let me second this. Let me also say a special welcome to SoS, this week won’t be especially fair for your server due to coverage, but it’s great to see you guys in the gold league.

/salute

Zhrek.9781:

Well Played BG, you guys win, unless JQ can stop you, moreover; week 1 u got SOR to double team JQ and put them in 3rd for you, and then you pulled your russian out the hat!, well played I must say =) As for SOR keep fighting til the end!

Thank you for the compliment. However, I wouldn’t worry about it.

We ended up with a stroke of luck in recruiting, which shifted the dynamic a bit from week one. As one of SOR’s main strengths was now countered, that change will hurt SOR far more than JQ in a 1v1 match up.

Morale is high on BG. Much like it was for you when SOR first got IRON, so our turn out has increased as well.

It would have been far healthier for SOR’s morale, if JQ and SOR had switched places this week. As such, through no fault of your own, its going to depress SOR’s PUG numbers. Not to mention, the PVE events during the league are going to do the exact same thing.

SOR has long been a crafty, skilled, and resourceful opponent. If you have a momentary morale dip, I have no doubt you’ll be right back up, with the next rabbit you pull out of your own hats. You are far too dangerous of a server not to watch carefully.

Like us, you are one of the top three gold servers for a reason. You’ve earned it.

You’ll be back on your feet soon enough. Like my own server, you’re just to feisty to stay down.

/salute

Good luck to the MERC folk that moved off to their new home on JQ and good luck to the former MERC players that stayed with the BG family.

/salute

Welcome to the show FA, you guys and girls are kicking butt!

Good luck to all three servers!

/salute

Oresh.4729:

for comparison this is the graph for jq, hard to guess what happened in my home server

I would worry too much about certain rating scores. Thanks to being shuffled more than NA in the EU bracket you can look at the top ranking already being reduced to 1,961 range:

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/

In the EU: the 2200, 2100 and 2000 ranges are already gone from the shuffle. In NA, we’ve probably just lost the 2200 range.

As a result, tracking using such ranges is going to be off and non reflective of actual server performance. As is already happening in the EU bracket, we’re likely to see more changes, greater rotations, and a deflation of rating scores continue.

/salute

SoPP.7034:

Dear BG and SoR

Thanks for the match up this week.

Many on JQ were unsure of our future when we went into the match up against FA and TC a few weeks back. JQ had lost a number of players and many of us asked ‘what is JQ?’

Since then JQ has taken stock and come to appreciate even more what BG and SoR has to offer, concurrently being appreciative of what other servers have given us.
TC showed us again what good communities can do and how to win without winning. We learnt a lot from FA too and their fighting spirit, their ‘If it’s red, it’s dead’ policy that upset many dolyak, but they kept fighting no matter what Respect. Even Mags taught us what real trolls are and how to fight!

It was good JQ took a break and met other servers, we learnt a lot. It also gave us space to find ourselves again and think what does tier 1 mean to us. Many of us now have renewed vigour and understanding, we come back to BG and SoR with open arms.

JQ wins this week but it’s not the guarantee that it once, but that’s ok. JQ has come to appreciate even more the fights that BG and SoR put out. While trolls will do their thing, the veteran players take it to the field and the more balanced of us see how the current tier 1 match-up is the most dynamic we’ve seen (since launch?).

It’s a love hate relationship, but deep down inside we all love this match up. Respect to our BG and SoR brethren. To our next match together and future fights!

<3

This post gets a 10/10. Let me say congrats from BG to JQ on not only winning this week, but taking the current top spot in the NA rankings as well.

http://mos.millenium.org/na

/salute

Good luck to all three servers.

/salute

Clockradio.3257:

Meh, even still there seems to be a lot of people on BG/JQ/[non-SOR server] that keep bringing up or poking fun at things like “We aren’t playing for PPT” and “This is a training week.” I think it’s hilarious that people ON SOR are using these things as excuses when in fact they are taking these small phrases grossly out of context. All they are doing is providing people on other servers with MASSIVE troll bate for weeks on end.

EVERY GUILD should be constantly training. NO WEEK should specifically be a “training week”. That goes for every server. If you’re not learning from what you see on the field, you’re falling behind.

EVERYONE should be playing for fun, and not get super stressed over PPT. That just makes it less of a game, and more of a job.

/WaitingForTrollsToTakeThisPostOutOfContext

That’s pretty wise. I’ve read your follow up posts to this. I couldn’t agree more and I think it hints at something bigger.

For most of us, this isn’t our first game. Many of us have been in hyper competitive pvp that died over time. In the end, courses of action that not only maintain our own server’s numbers, but those of our opponents are vital. For without someone to shoot, as pvpers, we literally have no game.

If we are starting to see GW2 shift into a more sportsmanlike game, I think GW2’s lifespan as a viable wpvp game will be many times what it would be otherwise. You have only to look around to realize that many of the greatest pvp guilds of the past 15 years play here. It does no damage to anyone’s guild reputation or player reputation to admit that.

Conversely, not recognizing that, actually does hurt us all as a greater MMO pvp community. After all, this is one of the most pvp focused MMOs in years. I for one would prefer more games developed like this, rather than completely pve centered games, as have been the staple since WOW’s success in 2004.

From what I can see across the field, SoR has had a natural dip in its PUG fielding and as a result some of its guild fielding as well. Every server goes through that and as FW has said, it’s just a morale thing.

As always, SoR will pull through. You should upsurge soon; again, it’s just a matter of SoR’s guild community pulling together with their militia and they will.

I’d also like to put a huge salute to TC this week. They did awesome out there in the field and really changed the tone of this match in a positive way. I’ve watched as TC has evolved into a hard fighting server with a community retention that most of us envy. It’s been an honor to fight TC this week as well.

/salute

RoninDB.9540:

Dear Blackgate Bad Boys -

I certainly hope you don’t think you can just waltz back in TC’s life after being gone for months, doing who knows what with SoR and JQ. We’re definitely not that kind of girl! So stop trying to get into our garrison and woo us, holding up that recorder and playing In Your Eyes is NOT working! Go home. You just get your bags elsewhere. We’re just not going to roll over and welcome you back!

Call us!!! We missed you!

<3 The Good Girls on TC

Dear TC Good Girls,

To charm us, you just have to Say Anything… BG will always love you. We will even help you fly when you are afraid…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4clhZZ6sdjk

/salute

Good luck to all three servers. =)

/salute

PAGamer.4072:

Blackgate and Sanctum of Rall must really like cookies. They never wanna share.

As BG, I can see right now it is:

Blackgate 15 256
Sanctum of Rall 16 535
Tarnished Coast 15 375

You have more cookies than us, TC. =)

/salute

Awesome fight this weeks. Before this thread gets buried, BG would like to wish DB good luck on your next match! DB is an awesome server! =)

/salute

Welcome aboard TC! BG has been waiting forever to match up with our old friends from our T2 days. =)

Good luck to all three servers.

/salute

Chris.3290:

Well, IoJ was never on the same level as SBI and JQ. Their loss in T1 followed by the the SoS-IoJ-HoD match that saw them destroyed; was the end of them so we never ended up with a top 6 (there were always “contenders” but most never materialized).

I might be misunderstanding but you are suggesting that there may be an effect in NA like they saw in EU where VS was brought closer to the rest of the pack. However, that hasn’t happened in NA (though it is better than it was before 2 weeks ago when we were moving to having 2 mega-tiers, facilitated by T4-T5 rolling high while T2-T3 have rolled low).

However, what I see happening is BG and SoR pulling further away. BG is now over 2200. That’s almost 300 pts away from JQ.

I don’t see them coming down naturally at this point as VS would win in coverage but only performed middling during weekends, while recouping during weeks. BG and SoR dominate weekends and the weeks.

I’d respectfully remind you that DB was winning friday night. =)

BG was much smaller than SBI and JQ in those days too. I’d say the real numbers were SBI 1st (post crowning), JQ (2nd), and the rest middling. We hit a competitive cycle that went froze in place and then evolved into the current game set.

It’s more chicken and the egg with the way glicko was. Where the game will be in six months with a rotation would be a guess, but I think it would evolve more evenly since it would be much harder to jump to an implied winning server.

Last week, NA bracket players were choosing between JQ, BG and SoR. If we evolved like the EU bracket, there would be nine choices. That would change things as the months roll on.

/salute

Seigfried.5938:

Chris.3290:

Laylyn.6018:

I’ll agree with this. One of the fun things to track is how much the EU bracket has changed already.

VS was EU’s number one server for most weeks since launch. http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/16 In week 18, VS was rocking a 2250 rating and they are now rocking a 1983 rating while winning all but two matches. There are also effectively 10 servers (AR week 28) in that top bracket now, which one could argue is the new EU Tier One.

Rotations like this were one of the cornerstones we hoped for back when the player base was striving for 6-9 competitive servers. They should evolve in that direction in the NA bracket with time.

Glicko was responsible for many of the headaches people when through in the past. This rotation will be painful in the short run, but once it gets going NA side, it should really help a lot of servers.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

/salute

Laylyn, with all respect (because I do have it for you); you’ve been lobbying for a 6-9 server balanced NA since launch and we’re farther away from it since any point since ET and HoD imploded.

The closest we came was before WM left SBI and we had 5 T1 quality servers. (SoS, JQ, SBI, SoR, BG) and TC was beginning to grow but was thrown off it’s ascent by the before mentioned WM move and NNK going to DB.

Now we have only 2 T1 servers, 2 T1.5 servers, 2 T2 servers, 2 T3 servers, 1 T 3.5…and about 5 T4 (little murky there).

The moment that WvW broke, was the end of free transfers and a last minute flock to JQ.

Since then, Tier 1 has become a giant hamburger grinder for WvW focused players. Players burn out, take breaks, and there is a need for new players that typically come from lower server guilds that come with T1 glory in mind, but they end up dissolving and merging with larger known guilds.

BG has collected a monstrous 24/7 machine that continues to grow, while SoR has been rock-solid stable for a while now. I don’t see the 2 server dominance ending anytime soon unless ANet were to take direct action (lower BL caps and creating heinously long queues)

This is the main reason I transferred to BG. I love the competition and intensity here. Even though there is a lot of hate generated on the forums for other servers, we respect our enemies in the game. When I transferred BG and SoR were more evenly matched( SoR had won the previous match). It may be JQ’s move to tier 2 or or BG’s recent reorganization which has created such a gap between SoR and us. But my main point is, I only came here because of the larger WvW population. I had a taste of tier 1 for a few weeks on my old server and really missed it for months. I think that is why most people transfer to higher tier servers.

I don’t see any problem with stacking servers with WvW’rs. No one complains when servers are PVE focussed, but all the hue and cry when servers stack wvw players. I play during the EU timezone, so tier 1 is a good place for me since there are people to fight with and against when I am awake. If the player base was spread out between all servers, I wouldn’t be able to play with so many people.

I wouldn’t worry about that. The game used to have a much larger wvw turn out in the first few weeks. Changes might refill some of that.

Four maps full meant a bit more when one map population was almost the same as two maps today. September 2012’s HoD could face the combined world pvp populations of SoR, BG, JQ and TC today. Further, even as 4 servers, we may have had a lower turn out today, than JQ and SBI alone had back in September 2012.

The advantage we’d have in that theoretical match up is how tactics and game mechanics have evolved since then. If it weren’t just a flight of fancy, it would be interesting to see.

If anything even brought back a quarter of the lost launch player base, we’d probably have 9 super servers right now. No intensity loss would necessarily happen.

That’s my hope anyway.

/salute

Chris.3290:

Laylyn.6018:

I’ll agree with this. One of the fun things to track is how much the EU bracket has changed already.

VS was EU’s number one server for most weeks since launch. http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/16 In week 18, VS was rocking a 2250 rating and they are now rocking a 1983 rating while winning all but two matches. There are also effectively 10 servers (AR week 28) in that top bracket now, which one could argue is the new EU Tier One.

Rotations like this were one of the cornerstones we hoped for back when the player base was striving for 6-9 competitive servers. They should evolve in that direction in the NA bracket with time.

Glicko was responsible for many of the headaches people when through in the past. This rotation will be painful in the short run, but once it gets going NA side, it should really help a lot of servers.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

/salute

Laylyn, with all respect (because I do have it for you); you’ve been lobbying for a 6-9 server balanced NA since launch and we’re farther away from it since any point since ET and HoD imploded.

The closest we came was before WM left SBI and we had 5 T1 quality servers. (SoS, JQ, SBI, SoR, BG) and TC was beginning to grow but was thrown off it’s ascent by the before mentioned WM move and NNK going to DB.

Now we have only 2 T1 servers, 2 T1.5 servers, 2 T2 servers, 2 T3 servers, 1 T 3.5…and about 5 T4 (little murky there).

The moment that WvW broke, was the end of free transfers and a last minute flock to JQ.

Since then, Tier 1 has become a giant hamburger grinder for WvW focused players. Players burn out, take breaks, and there is a need for new players that typically come from lower server guilds that come with T1 glory in mind, but they end up dissolving and merging with larger known guilds.

BG has collected a monstrous 24/7 machine that continues to grow, while SoR has been rock-solid stable for a while now. I don’t see the 2 server dominance ending anytime soon unless ANet were to take direct action (lower BL caps and creating heinously long queues)

I agree with most of your points that has been the current situation. Though, taking what you said a step further, there was a time that IOJ was part of your 5 examples for 6 total when we were first attempting a player driven balance. (SoS, JQ, SBI, SoR, BG, IOJ)

Also, right before your collapse example, Titan Alliance had volunteers try to keep HoD competitive and AA’s FOE had originally tried to rally ET . That would have been a top 8 if things had gone better.

What killed the player driven effort back then was the extremely slow pace of the Glicko system. Now, that isn’t an issue.

Even in your worst case example, two servers could only dominate so much in a 3 match system (i.e. 3 sets of 3v3 wvw) which is what is going on in EU right now. In such a case, at least 1/3rd of the match ups would be super sized server free at all times.

Every match up would still technically be T1. I also think the hyperactive need to stay super sized would relax.

A little spread should naturally occur in those conditions and grow the pvp base up for all servers involved. That could be a good thing. Though there would be growing pains, for the first few matches.

I also think the whole thing could happen naturally over the course of a few months, due to personality differences, guilds looking for a change, returning guilds, or even guilds getting involved with wvw for the first time. No volunteers needed this go round.

That’s my long term hope anyway. We’ll see if I eat crow on that one again.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

/salute

Sardonia.8196:

Punny.9210:

Azure.8412:

Burl.9567:

Azure.8412:

Neuromancer.2148:

I don’t understand why people are talking about how not caring about the PPT as if being flippant about the core mechanic of this game mode were the nobler pursuit of WvW. Isn’t this why you fight harder? Isn’t this why balance among the servers actually matters? If your server’s score isn’t up to par, just laugh it off and say you’ll do better next week. To say it doesn’t matter compared to some random pursuit is dishonest and discredits the entire community.

Definitely, ppt does matter to an extent, but only an extremely small one, to Rallians. SoR simply doesn’t want to ever become past rank 1 servers that got too obsessed getting first. With this obsession, more and more people will become extremely affected, causing the server to have more and more fairweathers. We don’t wish for this to happen. It’s our server’s philosophy. That’s why many Rallians are trying to completely ignore the score and say “I don’t care about ppt”. The score is just a nice bonus for us.

I care about the score to the point of keeping us in a competitive matchup against other players. Beyond that, I could care less. I actually prefer losing as it reduces our queues A LOT and leads to more opponents showing up which drives up the level of difficulty. Queues 4 weeks ago stretched into an hour if not more. My queue was 2 mins the other night.

Yeah. Same. I used to care a lot, but grew not to care. Stressing the ppt and score will just simply strain the server and it’s players more as they do overtime to win the matchup. The fights are the most important. The more bags the better.

yea bro

thank to your kindness of losing by blow out points. so none of us havn’t had to play

overtime

keep on doing that in lower tier as well and a lot of ppl will love you guys

You realize there are no more tiers right? BG may find themselves in a once called T3 match next week. You never know

I’ll agree with this. One of the fun things to track is how much the EU bracket has changed already.

VS was EU’s number one server for most weeks since launch. http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/16 In week 18, VS was rocking a 2250 rating and they are now rocking a 1983 rating while winning all but two matches. There are also effectively 10 servers (AR week 28) in that top bracket now, which one could argue is the new EU Tier One.

Rotations like this were one of the cornerstones we hoped for back when the player base was striving for 6-9 competitive servers. They should evolve in that direction in the NA bracket with time.

Glicko was responsible for many of the headaches people when through in the past. This rotation will be painful in the short run, but once it gets going NA side, it should really help a lot of servers.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

/salute

Fannwong.3059:

(Note: edited the post because I double checked my files on server numbers over the 6+ months) FW

(Well constructed answer above removed due to forum posting count limitations… )

Your advantages then and now, equal and exceed what SoS was winning with against far harder odds. Where your coverage is less currently, you compensate by having strong coverage where SoS never had any.

SoS’s strength was it’s NA fielding, which led to it’s victory over a huge SBI. From what I’ve heard from SoS vets directly is that SoR exceeded that NA fielding when entering T1, even before recruiting TSYM. What exceeded that was cake.

I know you’ll have data graphs, but every estimate I’ve seen put out never includes militia which beyond the guilds themselves, accounts for a wildcard variable of about 50-75% of the fielding for most NA servers. That’s been true in the NA bracket since HoD’s Titan Alliance and it was true for them as well.

Organized play grows non main tagged numbers. Morale loses shrink them. Training time off and obsessions other than what militia can help with disrupt your turn out even more. PVE events hit every server with this as well.

With their militia, Titan Alliance’s HoD had no coverage holes. A newly crowned JQ with 3 hour NA queues had them. A newly crowned SBI had them. SoS had them and actively had to recruit to maintain numbers as T1 Green. BG had them and had the same logistical problems SoS did.

BG took the crown every time by pushing for it. Except for Titan Alliance’s HoD, every server before had to do the same.

The real exception is SoR’s own no overtime policy. Every server except for Titan’s HoD had to put the hours in. SoR decided not to.

Population forum warrior misconceptions come from this. Your players putting in 1-4 hours think that a player putting in 8-16 is part of that same time zone fielding. That’s completely inaccurate.

Also, most people miss the fact that the maps are smaller. Most people still haven’t noticed that the zones tend to hover at about 80 per map, while silently being adjusted with random patches since the Culling fix. That’s far less than the fielding at game launch.

Back to the data graph numbers, most of what you are tracking internally is your own server attrition. It’s a nearly universal factor for servers in both brackets. You are no more of a victim from this than any other server. It’s simply a natural player base attrition as a game goes on, though admittedly accelerated in GW2. In fact, it’s why IRON transferred. IRON’s stated reason to transfer from the EU bracket was to keep the guild from dying off in this game. It’s the same motive that many guilds transfer with.

What you probably aren’t tracking is your opponent’s attrition. Servers and guilds are simply wielding less numbers as they naturally do when the game goes on. This impacts militia as well, which accounts for the feeling of what most time brackets are fielding. Herein, lies the months of forum bickering and propaganda, mostly from wild misconceptions that were less researched than most people’s political philosophies.

Your server is still fighting a coverage war that hasn’t existed since Oct 2012. I respectfully submit, most of this in your server member’s heads. Everything since then has not been the giant that came before.

Titan Alliance’s invincible coverage is gone and the silent logistics behind it are not being reproduced, even on a smaller scale. At some point, people might want to wake up from that. At this rate, it’ll probably happen sometime in 2015.

Everything above is of course factoring all time zones. Most of your posts are SEA specific.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

/salute

Fannwong.3059:

Hello Deffy,

I am sorry that you didn’t get word about this. As mentioned, it was in our TS message of the day since reset. The commanders have also been yelling out in map chat about training. (Of course it doesn’t mean that we don’t siege up our keeps/towers). PM me in game and I’ll reimburse you for your gold?

FW

deffy.1320:

Apparently guilds on SOR are on guild training, so told not playing for points, wish someone had told me before i wasted several gold or more, run yaks for hours, upgrade supply camps/towers, fill them with siege, you just lost a supply runner.

i can’t be bothered either.

Such events modify the score, since SoR is purposefully not playing at full strength. A similar event event happened the week before IRON transferred on when NYS went on a two week break and modified your SEA turn out. The score modified the appearance of the whole match that week, which didn’t hurt your recruiting the week following.

Guilds and servers have a right to do this. However, you should be aware, this is the core of why people say SoR keeps underplaying while recruiting.

Apparently, from what you are saying, it has been server policy since the beginning of this week. It has been mentioned on SoR’s ts. It has been broadcast in map chat.

I remain convinced you had the talent and the manpower to take T1 Green when AFS transferred on, which was long before IRON. That harder road of striving for that win had been the core of what was once an attempt to balance 6-9 competitive servers, with limits especially in Oceanic players. Coverage holes were the balancing factor.

SoR hasn’t been playing at full strength as a matter of server policy this week. Yet, it has repeatedly played the outnumbered card on the forums. It kind of makes the complaining in this thread by your server a special kind of farce to some of us. Though, I doubt most people took those server policies into account in the heat of the moment while posting those complaints.

It is also well worth mentioning DB played far stronger this week than SoR was anticipating, which also affected the score. If I’m, remembering correctly, a DB player put it to mean about 15k of BG’s current lead earlier in this thread. 20k would probably be closer to the truth.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

/salute

warsock.7830:

Jeez, dragonbrand is here too… feels like hes out with two friends who are dating

DB is out fighting. It’s why you are about 900 within SoR as of 1800 EST. http://mos.millenium.org/na

My impression is that DB is letting its deeds speak for you. You are a far stronger server than you are getting credit for generally here.

/salute

Lenador.1436:

Laylyn.6018:

Well let me say this in the more official thread. Blackgate would like to offer a hearty welcome Dragonbrand. That was one heck of a way to roar and come out swinging.

Good luck to all three servers. As our SoR opponents have often said, the PPT isn’t everything. may the fights be everything you are looking for.

May this be an awesome match up. It would appear that DB is already unleashing massive carnage.

/salute

Dont worry the coverage game will catch up to us but till then…..I hope we can satisfy you with as many fights as we can

We would have loved to simply have DB here. That DB is in lead right now exceeded our hopes. Way to jump out like Spartan warriors.

High tiers will often be driven by coverage. We have all under dogged with that at one point.

Our only real concern is that you have fun. With all the butt you are kicking I think it’s safe to assume that you are.

/salute

BG would like to offer good luck to all three servers. May this week be awesome. =)

/salute

Well let me say this in the more official thread. Blackgate would like to offer a hearty welcome Dragonbrand. That was one heck of a way to roar and come out swinging.

Good luck to all three servers. As our SoR opponents have often said, the PPT isn’t everything. may the fights be everything you are looking for.

May this be an awesome match up. It would appear that DB is already unleashing massive carnage.

/salute

A hearty welcome Dragonbrand. That was one heck of a way to roar and come out swinging.

Much respect. May this be an awesome match up.

/salute

May this week be the best yet. Also a shake up match up would be welcome. =)

/salute

salluks.6017:

Laylyn.6018:

Eviator.9746:

Laylyn.6018:

T1 superstacking occurs because there is a T1 in the first place. To a large degree, it’s a chicken and the egg thing.

It’s certainly a theory. Let me ask you this: why does your guild not transfer off? What is so great about being a top 3 server that keeps you around? If it’s the 24/7 huge fights, server balance is not going to correct that because, brace yourself, then no matchups are going to have 24/7 huge fights.

I’ve been on BG since day 1. In that, I’ve been in brackets 1-4.

I’ve also been on the player group end that tried to balance out the servers. Your real issue is Oceanic numbers that hold true for what you are talking about above. There simply isn’t enough of a player base to cover every server even in current NA alone.

However, most servers could maintain around 10 – 12 hours of coverage by simply merging EU and NA.

Coverage past that is cake. There would be servers that had it and they would gravitate towards the top. However, more servers would have had more consistent coverage in the long run.

Also, in truth, EU side has been far more plagued with this issue that NA side. It’s dictated the make up of their T1 since launch.

/salute

there is a difference in EU and NA gameplay and i dont think EU/NA will be happy with the merging.

NA seem to obsess so much over ppt and score that they don’t seem to “see” beyond it. even GVG’s are looked down upon by many people here. look at this thread itself for example. a “fair” match for NA is score being even thru the week!

in EU a “fair” match is not fighting Vizunah(infact no server wants to fight them), but fighting servers like Piken square, Baruch bay, SFR, simply cos these servers have amazing guilds who run by themselves and always looking for fights with little to no regard to score. most of them dont even look at the score or to “Win” the week.

if both sides are merged, it will again end up with a huge zergfest for the top 6 servers instead of current 3 servers.

VS has remained virtually undefeated due to its night crew only. A few EU holidays have forced them to come in second place. Most of their loses were due to NA back up on the EU side.

EU doesn’t like fighting VS because the VS night crew that has allowed them to be the EU version of Titan Alliance’s HoD. For EU, this has never changed from launch. Most of the EU feelings on PPT stems from that.

As for time zones, most servers have majority populations that are remarkably unaware of what happens outside of their own play time. One doesn’t affect the other as much as one would think except for PPT.

EU top three is now 7 servers total. VS has dropped from 2250 in week 18 http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/16 to 2006 currently while winning all but two matches where they came in 2nd. The rotation itself changes the entire glicko monster and why the top 3 NA would think they are where they are currently.

A top three mentality is an outgrowth of a tier one way of thinking. The devs themselves have said there is no T1 anymore. Let me repeat that, the devs themselves have said there is no T1 anymore. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Server-Match-up-is-TERRIBLE/first

Most likely the continued match ups many weeks after that statement and the lag problems we had last night are just stress tests for the game as a whole. Considering the number of devs playing currently on SoR, it is safe to assume that we all are just lab rats until this test series is done. Heck, they might be getting ready to lower map caps again for all we know.

In short, it appears that we are a live Beta. That will be over at some point, then we then follow suit to some degree with the EU bracket. That already appears to be a top 7 format.

Most likely, top three there is already an outmoded idea to the point of being candles after the light bulb. They might have some value, but it wont be what you see by in the long run. It’s already changed EU side.

/salute

Eviator.9746:

1. There is no reason to believe that merging EU and NA wouldn’t encourage guilds in the old top 6 to stack on the new top 3.

2. If server pride is important to you (it is to me), then I don’t understand the complaining about stacking. You seem to be saying “I’m not going to move my guild off this server, but other guilds should.”

3. Laylyn is actually not talking about forcing anyone to do anything, he is talking about a system that encourages guilds to want to spread and do so voluntarily. Frankly you have to overcome the prestige of being on a top server by making the gameplay in lower “tiers” more fun. Perhaps the best way to do that is to introduce even more lag.

Thank you for the positive marks. For your concerns, I’d just like to respectfully point out that the current top 3 in EU alone is 7 servers for the past 29 days. You can actually track that EU side by who is fighting VS. If we merged it would be more, for what would be the top bracket.

I wouldn’t mine seeing something like that here. I also wouldn’t mine seeing more styles of fighting, by merging the two brackets.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

/salute

kyro.8162:

Eviator.9746:

Laylyn.6018:

T1 superstacking occurs because there is a T1 in the first place. To a large degree, it’s a chicken and the egg thing.

It’s certainly a theory. Let me ask you this: why does your guild not transfer off? What is so great about being a top 3 server that keeps you around? If it’s the 24/7 huge fights, server balance is not going to correct that because, brace yourself, then no matchups are going to have 24/7 huge fights.

Maybe, just maybe, people made friends with who’s on the server. Maybe they like working with certain guilds within the server. Maybe it cost 60g to transfer servers. Not including moving your guild and finding another server that has the same mindset as you. If you want people to move themselves to balance all the servers, brace yourself, people don’t like being forced from their homes.

Thank you for the assist. However, I can see his point. Some rotation would be easy for several people if they could transfer for free to certain servers for a limited time. It was rampant back in 2012.

If they ever merged the brackets, I could see a need to do so. Or, they might consider merging the wvw sections for game play between an EU and a NA server. The only real limitation to that idea is EU has more servers than we do, 27 vs 22.

/salute

Eviator.9746:

Laylyn.6018:

T1 superstacking occurs because there is a T1 in the first place. To a large degree, it’s a chicken and the egg thing.

It’s certainly a theory. Let me ask you this: why does your guild not transfer off? What is so great about being a top 3 server that keeps you around? If it’s the 24/7 huge fights, server balance is not going to correct that because, brace yourself, then no matchups are going to have 24/7 huge fights.

I’ve been on BG since day 1. In that, I’ve been in brackets 1-4.

I’ve also been on the player group end that tried to balance out the servers. Your real issue is Oceanic numbers that hold true for what you are talking about above. There simply isn’t enough of a player base to cover every server even in current NA alone.

However, most servers could maintain around 10 – 12 hours of coverage by simply merging EU and NA.

Coverage past that is cake. There would be servers that had it and they would gravitate towards the top. However, more servers would have had more consistent coverage in the long run.

Also, in truth, EU side has been far more plagued with this issue that NA side. It’s dictated the make up of their T1 since launch.

/salute

SykkoB.9465:

Laylyn.6018:

Peetee.9406:

Yawn………………..

The utter failure of the system is only happening in Tier 1 NA. For Tier 1 EU, Vizunah Square is the old benchmark for that and hasn’t had a problem yet.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Vizunah-Riverside-Desolation (2 servers rotated) today

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/SFR-Vizu-JadeSea (1 server rotated) 7 days ago

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Desolation-Baruch-Bay-Vizunah-Square (2 servers rotated) 14 days ago

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Vizunah-Deso-Jade-Sea (1 server rotated) 21 days ago

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Vizunah-Square-Seafarer-s-Rest-Kodash (2 servers rotated) 28 days ago

Between this and the lag it boggles the mind…

/salute

here is a question for u and ppl like u who want a random match up

Why would u wanna face lower pop servers who have no shot at putting up a fight and u would be bored 60% of ur time ?

we here in t1 have some of the best fights and action 24/7. No other server can deal with us. by us i ment all t1 servers

As I said above, in a perfect world, I’d merge the two brackets and rotate.

/salute

Eviator.9746:

Laylyn.6018:

The utter failure of the system is only happening in Tier 1 NA. For Tier 1 EU, Vizunah Square is the old benchmark for that and hasn’t had a problem yet.

Between this and the lag it boggles the mind…

/salute

I don’t understand…this is probably one of the most even matchups each and every week. Seems like the new system is working just fine. Or do you prefer to play against one or more servers who cannot acheive more than half of your PPT?

T1 superstacking occurs because there is a T1 in the first place. To a large degree, it’s a chicken and the egg thing.

When we pushed for 6-9 competitive servers, as an NA player base, it failed because of glicko issues and no real rotation. Now that rotation is possible, it’s not happening even though T1 isn’t really supposed to exist anymore.

More rotation might mean short term pain, but it also means a possible better spread of the pvp guilds across the server base. I’d rather see a system that grows that up.

However, I’m also a weirdo that in a global game doesn’t see a purpose in a NA bracket and an EU bracket. I’d rather see the two merged, with a better spread with automatic coverage throughout. It would have canceled most of the EU’s heartache long ago…

The servers are all US side anyway…

/salute

Peetee.9406:

Yawn………………..

The utter failure of the system is only happening in Tier 1 NA. For Tier 1 EU, Vizunah Square is the old benchmark for that and hasn’t had a problem yet.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Vizunah-Riverside-Desolation (2 servers rotated) today

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/SFR-Vizu-JadeSea (1 server rotated) 7 days ago

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Desolation-Baruch-Bay-Vizunah-Square (2 servers rotated) 14 days ago

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Vizunah-Deso-Jade-Sea (1 server rotated) 21 days ago

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Vizunah-Square-Seafarer-s-Rest-Kodash (2 servers rotated) 28 days ago

Between this and the lag it boggles the mind…

/salute

Fannwong.3059:

Hello Aneirin,

BG is now the only server in tier 1 that can muster their vaguard oceanic and sea forces to hit EU timing. BG server leaders have created the structure to switch OCN/SEA forces to EU on a short notice. Most of the forces in JQ and SOR are unable to do that. Prior to the arrival of IRON, WM was dominating EU time zone for almost 2 weeks straight. This might not seem like much but to play from 12am to 6am consistently requires a whole different level of discipline from the organized guilds.

FW

BG has pulled long shifts when needed since launch. Our numbers have always been overestimated by our rivals due to this.

JQ has done the same long hours from time to time. I think it is just SoR that will not currently, due to the conflict with your stated server philosophy.

On a separate note, it’s been nice to see JQ rise up and truly roar again. With FOE and Agg , it’s also nice to see old friends over there too.

May the match ups keep becoming tighter races. May we all soon be within 4k of each other, with a random winner soon enough.

/salute

DevonCarver.5370:

The concept of tiers has little meaning at this point and you should try to stop thinking of matchups in those terms. Servers are matched up by proximity of rating, not proximity of “tier”. If the tiers have ratings that are within the range of the random adjustment, they can end up fighting each other. This is going to result in blowouts, no doubt about it. However, we are not going to make changes to this after just 2 weeks of the system. There are things we can do. We will almost certainly end up adjusting the total added to each server rating to group the matchups a little more closely. First however, we need to let the ratings adjust by having more varied matchups like these. If you look at EU, which is using the exact same system, you can see matchups with numerous surprising results. The same will likely be true by the end of the NA matchup.

TL;DR: We are going to wait at least a couple more weeks before changing any of the math behind the new system, but it is very likely we’ll decrease the size of the variation at some point.

Something dynamic like this would have really helped the player driven work to make 6-9 top servers a few months back. If the current math doesn’t work with the current player base, something as simple as red server falls green advances could work in its place. It would only hit a wall in the top and bottom tiers.

/salute