Guild Wars 2

zamalek.2154:

DevonCarver.5370:

Lead.1784:

EvE doesn’t really get time dilation until you hit about 700-800+ players. Just saying.

While I appreciate the spirit of this response, I think it is clear that EvE and our game have very different types and amounts of calculations to make.

In addition the mechanics of EvE are vastly different – it’s essentially 6DOF WoW. Don’t get hung up on the 6DOF, rather the WoW aspect. There is less for the network stack to do considering that you can press “1” and walk away from my computer (you wouldn’t in practice, but in theory you could). It’s not an action MMO – it’s a classic MMO which is a lot less chatty than something like GW2.

Another action MMO is specifically avoiding a WvW/RvR scenario is Wildstar – very likely because of the overhead involved.

A good example is that in classic MMOs a whether or not a projectile/ability hits is nearly always determined at the point it is launched (at the end of the channeling time). Action MMOs like GW2 have issues like players dodging out of the way and therefore can’t do lazy dice roll-based calculations.

Actually, EvE has a much more complex system than you guys are saying, taking into account transversals, turret rotation speeds, explosion velocities, and many other things that you probably aren’t aware of. For example, it is possible for a small frigate or even a cruiser to outrun an explosion from a missile by traveling faster than the explosion velocity. Missiles “never miss” in eve, but it is possible to outrun them during the flight time and/or “dodge” the explosion. A similar thing happens with turret rotation speeds, its a little more complicated than checking if someone is in a dodge state or not…. Although you could argue that there is less AOE in eve and they do have a MUCH more powerful and advanced server setup. So its not really a fair comparison. Although this game starts to chug whenever a large enemy blob is around, before combat is even entered. That would never happen in EvE. But I wouldn’t exactly call what happens in EvE lazy…. Even Gw2 uses rolls to determine damage, in the form of your weapon. Its a very simple calculation, too.

Draygo.9473:

Jamais vu.5284:

Wryog.5073:

Because their engine isn’t made for this. I won’t explain the details because that’s already been said over 9000 times.
Also because StarCraft doesn’t calculate boons, armor, buffs, might, vulnerability, weapon damage, crit chance, crit damage, traits and distance from the center of AoEs.
And it’s not the 80 people being on the map, it’s the 80 people FIGHTING on the map.
It’s pretty much impossible to get that amount of people/AI fighting at the same time on 1 map in a MOBA.
Please don’t compare shooter calculations to RPG calculations. Shooters like CoD and Battlefield(as far as I know) don’t have armor, crit chance, crit damage, boons, power scaling and probably other things that I can’t remember right now. At the same time GW2 has projectile calculations like a shooter.
BTW aren’t shooters always limited to 64 players or even lower numbers? I remember interviews discussing 64 players in Battlefield 4 being a big thing.

I think I’d have caused you an aneurysm if I used a more abstract analogy.

Your defense of Anet’s ineptitude is noble, but misguided. This is a partially defective product/consumer service (if we count online-based games as the latter). There’s no excuse for it one year after it has been released.

Ok, here’s the excuse:

No other MMO has done 300+ man battles without lag.

DAOC lagged
WAR lagged
Planetside lagged
Planetside II lagged
EVE lagged (now they force the lag with time dilation)

so why are we expecting Arenanet to solve a problem no one else has really solved yet?

EvE doesn’t really get time dilation until you hit about 700-800+ players. Just saying.

problematic.9623:

oZii.2864:

It’s np I felt you came across like I was a “outsider” and was attacking the scene and got overly defensive about what I said. Just the way the internet goes though water under the bridge.

Can we hug now?

We can, yes. Did you know your server community [Ehmry Bay] is forming up in FF XIV ARR?

@Lead.1784
Hey man, separate your wall of text into paragraphs. Many players won’t read it. It was an impassioned post. They should read it. [Edit] Sweet. Looks good. Thanks.

Best it would let me do, it forces them together :/

I actually signed into my forum account, and I never do, because I KNEW there would be a forum thread about this. GvGs aren’t the point. The point is that Anet, you are getting increasingly detached from your most loyal playerbase day by day. The proof was in that stream. I could not BELIEVE how you guys just ignored the people crying out for a GvG mode. You act like they don’t exist and even act like they detracted from the stream somehow….that stream was crap, to be honest, (some Q&A…..seriously) and it’s incredibly insulting to the hardcore guilds that make up the core of WvW the way you simply ignore us, in a stream for the very gamemode most of us play exclusively. I can’t believe how blind you guys are to this cash cow right under your noses. You try to push sPvP like the plague as an esport where a set GvG mode really has the potential to blow up. How can you not see this? There are so many people involved in this GvG scene with absolutely zero support from you lot. Imagine if you showed the slightest bit of support.

You keep catering to the lazy PVE crowd, the group of players will be gone to another game the second a new shiny one is out. You don’t cater to the people who can see what WvW really could be. We do our best with what we have, but I don’t think you realize, Anet, how GOOD the pvp in this game really is. There is a reason we started playing this game and still are, the few of us PvP people who are left. Most games don’t have pvp that is as good, as interesting, or as diverse as this game’s, less are MMOs. Even lesser still are still available to play. The siege buffs, especially ACs are completely ruining this aspect of the game. Do you seriously think that all the people trying to get you to stop are all trolls?

Believe it or not, whatever sample of the playerbase you have in your testing IS NOT helping WvW. I am trying to tell you. I am trying to warn you. All of us are. They are not representative of the people who play WvW. That much is obvious. The PvP people play this game to actually play the game and fight other groups of players. All people do anymore is sit in towers with siege, this is NOT the game that we love so much. That is spamming 3 buttons and having them be effective because they hit obscenely more targets than anything else, and do more damage than most player groups. How is that rewarding? How does that encourage actually playing the kitten classes in this game?

I am telling you this, because when both groups of people move from this game, the PvErs because of a new carrot and the PvP crowd because of horrible support from you guys, you will be left with no one. “Splitting the zerg” won’t matter. We have all seen what happens to servers when the core WvW guilds just aren’t there. They die. They have no community. The PvP crowd will leave in whole guilds and it will be sudden. The PvErs will leave slower but it will be steady and pick up as time goes along. You will either fix this now or this game is doomed to fail. I sincerely hope you change before you remember this crossroads when it is far too late. That’s my 2 cents and I think that many of the WvW crowd would agree with what I am saying.

It’s just funny how many legit ac spots there are due to the lack of LOS requirement, and yet people keep screaming “HACKS” every time one is used. There is quite a large area around the ac you can man it from, and with the extra radius/range all you need to see is an area close to where you are trying to hit. We got accused the other day because we were using a spot on a ledge outside of blue keep in EB where we could hit inner from. FEAR in particular knows many spots like this, and I have run with them enough to tell you that no one is hacking.

The roll was random, the most likely match up for SoS will be t3 next week, because of how well the server is doing against stronger opponents. I don’t think anyone should kitten this system until the math actually evens out a bit. Like people said, a small tweak to how much the roll effects your placement and this is golden. Being in that situation must be a blast! Losing against stronger opponents doesn’t mean anything but that you have exciting fights everywhere. This system is literally making the points, and whether you win or lose, not matter as much anymore. May I direct people to this thread again-someone simulated matchups with the new system and old ratings.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/New-matchup-system-official-info/page/8#post2091419

Good fights last night in BG BL. It was great fun commanding against you guys. Some of those fights inside hills I thought we were going to lose due to lesser numbers, and we didn’t, but you finally got us on that last time we were inside with that portal bomb and acs.

DBR.9876:

Jet.4795:

Yshyr.8709:

Aarean.5398:

Hope some guilds see the senses to join JQ. Hot competition of jq vs sor and iron made a mistake going to sor and just killing the chances of balance considering its been fairly stable sor being ahead by far for weeks now. Sor will stay ahead till some guilds get bored or others move to jq. All coverage aside the score is perfect proof of the current imbalance in the grand scheme

Rewriting history a bit. SoR had the weakest coverage of all 3 t1 servers. No one could foresee that JQ would start bleeding guilds. At the time Iron made the choice SoR was the best choice as far as balance is concerned.

Using this quote and going off of what your TW friend said above it seems like you guys always had the coverage if you take away EU. You guys are ticking the same as JQ SEA with the return of your guys SEA guilds. So it seems to me you guys always had a chance at winning, but your SEA guilds were not showing up or were testing? Whatever it may be adding a EU guild did balance it while your SEA guilds were gone. However now you guys are doing much better with your SEA at least ticking 200 and now the 400+EU. My point I’m trying to make is honestly without IRON if your SEA would’ve been what it is now. You guys could have won in my opinion. Keep up the good fights and good games.

For the past week or so, the est timezone on SoR has been without almost any competition. A night or two ago, Fear and spqr (i think) went into one borderland where we owned nothing. We took back a paper bay, and split pushed a t3 garrison belonging to jq and a t3 hills belonging to bg. Both were taken within minutes of one another. This was at about 8 pm eastern time and there was no resistance to be had. I personally don’t think the changes in SoR are the reasons for our wins. We finally got to where we could compete with the powerhouses of t1, but it seems when we got to that point, they just relaxed their game and decided to not even fight during early NA. As NA servers in tier 1, it should be impossible for 15-20 man groups to flip tier 3 keeps effortlessly during prime time.

Exactly, it has much less to do with our coverage than BG is willing to admit, and JQ just has weaker coverage than us at the moment. BG has just been very unsportsmanlike this week by just giving up because its a little rough for them. The funny thing is is that I know you guys have the numbers there, they just don’t come out? I think you are just trying to look weak to get new people just like you did last time you did something similar. Just off the top of my head KnT, GoF, and RK I see every single day, and they should be commended for actually helping the server. I just wish you guys didn’t have so many fairweathers, and more people that would back you when times get rough like this.

Waage.2047:

Masori.3528:

showatt.9413:

Masori.3528:

Man refreshing the topic and went back a page. Moderators are busy bees again.

Anyways you should know that wrex was doing this for the laugh and trying to get some fights. Instead of the cat and mouse games.

And he chose a really poor way to do it.

You know, I have always hated JQQ. I think they’re the biggest bunch of whiners around and i love seeing them lose but the rubbish that comes out of your guildies’ mouths are pretty cringeworthy considering you’ve just transferred and already you’re acting like you carry the server while SoR had been competent to begin with.

Winning, losing, it don’t matter. I’ve seen server come and go, from back when Henge was dominating to the rise of JQ to SoS. Look at Kaineng and where they are now. Nobody wins forever. No one lose forever. The only thing that matters is how you present yourselves. Sure, it’s all for giggles. Sure it was just trolling to get the blood pumping. That doesn’t stop you from being a prik though.

There are better ways to go about getting a fight; being a forum warrior isn’t one of them.

We never ever stated we carry SoR. For all i know th reason we have it “so easy” is because SoR’s SEA and Oceanic.

But i was scouting yesterdays JQ zerg in Eb yesterday. They ran with atleast 60 players taking every BG they could consume. We even circles around the BGkeep to catch them. And we were 25 iron with 15-18 allies..
Still they ran towards bravost and stayed in. We started trebbing them. And instead of coming out, they start counter trebbing.

On BG border earlier that evening we had no competition. Thats the only reason we went to EB.
Guesz we’ll get some good fights this weekend.

Ohm you guys brought over a massive army that no one have numbers to compete against. RK is the only active EU wvw guilds on any of the servers that have numbers close to yours and you outnumber us by 10-20 people in most cases.

This information was available to you when you transferred over. When BG goes down a tier or get mixed out there will be no forces left to fight you. We have the latest Asian going into EU. This was all known information.

I was there for that, there was about 80 jq and 60 bg on EB, against our 40 or so, and both ran. Every time. Its not a numbers thing, in EB at least. In fact, right at this moment there is an 80 man JQ group running around EB. As far as the garri on bgbl goes, you guys fended us off with acs, well done. It seemed like we had pretty equal or even lesser numbers throughout most of the day though. When you guys had WM, you, and Meow running around we didn’t cry so much about it. You guys have had a massive advantage with even your PuG population during this time, and yet you are still whining because you lose open-field even when you outnumber us. RK itself might not be as large as IRON, but IRON is definitely quality>numbers. As the JQ poster above has said, in even other timezones it has degraded to a 1v1 between SoR and JQ, and that sucks. Not everything that is happening is due to your EU timezone.

Sirendor.1394:

The backtracing system is utter bs. Why do we need to play 2x the amount of wvw to get our reward chest back? Why can’t you just dump them in our mails per character based on the number of ranks we gained? Now all the work we did before this update was totally for nothing, cause it will ask us to gain more ranks, and the higher your rank goes, the more WXP you need to level up… This is a lazy trick of Anet to keep people playing WvW.

You do know that the wxp you need to rank up flattens out at 5k right? It never increases and starts at that rate at about 20, so what’s the issue?

Waage.2047:

Lead.1784:

pot.6805:

This is straight up boring. I miss when first and second were only 10k away from each other going into a Tuesday. At least there was some excitement going into the final stretch of the week.

Maybe if BG was actually showing up it would be more interesting. Just throwing it out there. JQ has been around, they are fighting harder than I have seen them fight for a while now! People here are right, you should take a page from SoR, and play no matter what. Then again, this is what happens when you build a server around being in that green spot, can’t say I’m surprised.

As some one who have lead BG EU for long time this is fun.

SoR and fighting no mater what is not a realty man. Yes when you are flushed with wins then you will come out, but when BG played over time where where your SoR then?? Sorry, but with how it is now we are busy trying to keep our own stuff and that takes away any chance of us starting a massive fight.

As a officer you should know better then this and have a understanding of movement and troop deployment. If you are a PvE officer then i understand why you would lack this very basic knowledge pertaining to deployment’s in a zone’s and how fights flow.

I have seen RK out there every day, not talking to you guys. Like someone else said, I’m talking to the fairweathers. I do know that SoR would pull full strength every single day even when we had no chance of winning. With the exception of a week in recent memory where many took a break. It seems like BG only ever does this when they burn themselves out. I just wish I would see more BG out there than I have been, I know you guys have the numbers but they just aren’t around lately.

pot.6805:

This is straight up boring. I miss when first and second were only 10k away from each other going into a Tuesday. At least there was some excitement going into the final stretch of the week.

Maybe if BG was actually showing up it would be more interesting. Just throwing it out there. JQ has been around, they are fighting harder than I have seen them fight for a while now! People here are right, you should take a page from SoR, and play no matter what. Then again, this is what happens when you build a server around being in that green spot, can’t say I’m surprised.

Renny.6571:

Update. I’m assuming the lack of red on green bl and vice versa is because blue bl is shaped in a way that they’re naturally 2v1’d or some kitten.

Well, with JQ bl it’s just not worth going there with the awful dcing and lag. As far as SoR BL we simply kicked you guys out!

Jet.4795:

Lead.1784:

Zagan.5287:

at least JQ is not giving up, BG what happened to RISE and WM? aren’t they suppose to be contributing to your server? Or they just got hyped for 1 week and burned out?

Yeah props to jq for bringing it hard this weekend, its been a lot of fun.

We would be doing better if we could stay in JQBL longer than 2mins

Yeah I hear you there! It has been a pain in the kitten for all of us, rest assured. I’m just glad that it seems like jq is back again.

Zagan.5287:

at least JQ is not giving up, BG what happened to RISE and WM? aren’t they suppose to be contributing to your server? Or they just got hyped for 1 week and burned out?

Yeah props to jq for bringing it hard this weekend, its been a lot of fun.

All this crying about IRON coming to SoR is hilarious. From what Offski said earlier in the thread and to us you guys offered to give them money to come to BG. Balance indeed. You just don’t like that they chose us. If they had come to BG you would be singing a totally different tune, rather than this “balance” stuff you are spewing now. It is rather funny how you guys absolutely cannot deal with losing, and take to the forums to whine about it. SoR has been holding strong in an even worse position than you are now, all without crying here. We told you that you would rue the day we actually got coverage, and now that we have it you guys aren’t even trying. Its rather pathetic really. SoR came out and fought every day, even starting at 0 ppt before I came here, and you guys can’t deal with ONE EU guild? BG just cannot seem to deal with hardship of any sort. I have seen your forces during EU out there, you guys just don’t work together at all and just kind of blob around. The coordination during this time is really the deciding factor. Good luck recruiting more guilds. : )

BG NA prime. He looks so sad…..

Ever since the “2 hours till new build” message we cannot change borderlands or join wvw.

Nuked.2360:

Lead.1784:

VOLKON.1290:

Lead.1784:

Nuked.2360:

Lead.1784:

Nuked.2360:

Jahn.7019:

Nuked.2360:

Jahn.7019:

BTW, there is an AoS mesmer exploiting into hills over and over on SoR BL.

Appreciate it if an officer or leader of Army of Shepards would ask him/her to stop. It’s unnecessary.

Thank you in advance.

Hard to figure out who it is without at least a screen shot. I just got pm’d accusing me of being in a guild of hackers and exploiters but said user wouldn’t provide a screen shot. Hopefully you can provide me with a screen shot to go off of otherwise I can’t do much.

He is exploiting in from the spawn point to hills, he’s done it about 4 times now. We’ll try and get you a screenshot, but looking into it on your end as well would be a great start.

Thanks.

You guys do have an elementalist commander on the map. Have them look into it.

Hard to look into when someone who has a screenshot won’t give it to me because he would rather slander me.

I can confirm that this has been happening, whoever is doing it teleports straight into the lords room. Needless to say we are sure that they weren’t hiding in there as it has often happened when there was no way a mesmer could get inside. This isn’t someone trash talking your guild and I am not one to do that. I think he is just trying to make you guys aware because I know you wouldn’t approve of that sort of behavior.

As I stated previously I can look into it but literally without screen shots its like a needle in a haystack. And you did have a member of your server pm me saying he had screen shots and accusing me of having an exploiter’s guild if you want those screen shots pm me privately.

Well I promise that personally, I will be looking to get a screenshot of the culprit, as a wvw rank and visual ID will certainly aid you in your search. I give you my word that this has been happening. I don’t know who that was that pmed you calling you an exploit guild, that has never been my experience with you guys in the slightest, they are very wrong. I am sure we can work together to find the culprit.

Apologies if I came off a bit strong, you’re definitely presenting this with a level head and deserve the benefit of the doubt in my opinion, for what that’s worth. Good luck with the screenshot. None of our servers or guilds should tolerate this crap.

Yeah, I am not usually on SoR bl but I’ve seen it happen a few times now. It’s hard to get a screen since he disappears if someone finds him, I imagine porting to spawn again or something similar. Honestly, nothing against AoS at all. You guys are all stand up guys in my opinion. : ) I will keep in touch.

I appreciate it if I came off kitten thats mainly because when I logged on I was getting accusations of such and that doesn’t really start someone off in a good mood. But I have talked to my officer’s and members who were on at the time and we are all working to try and figure out who it was because we had 50+ people on at the time it will take some time when we don’t have anything to go on but they are a mesmer.

All good man, I (and I’m sure the rest of SoR) appreciate the effort! I agree that it is hard to go off so little information so I will be trying to make sure people are actively looking to screenshot this on SoRbl.

VOLKON.1290:

Lead.1784:

Nuked.2360:

Lead.1784:

Nuked.2360:

Jahn.7019:

Nuked.2360:

Jahn.7019:

BTW, there is an AoS mesmer exploiting into hills over and over on SoR BL.

Appreciate it if an officer or leader of Army of Shepards would ask him/her to stop. It’s unnecessary.

Thank you in advance.

Hard to figure out who it is without at least a screen shot. I just got pm’d accusing me of being in a guild of hackers and exploiters but said user wouldn’t provide a screen shot. Hopefully you can provide me with a screen shot to go off of otherwise I can’t do much.

He is exploiting in from the spawn point to hills, he’s done it about 4 times now. We’ll try and get you a screenshot, but looking into it on your end as well would be a great start.

Thanks.

You guys do have an elementalist commander on the map. Have them look into it.

Hard to look into when someone who has a screenshot won’t give it to me because he would rather slander me.

I can confirm that this has been happening, whoever is doing it teleports straight into the lords room. Needless to say we are sure that they weren’t hiding in there as it has often happened when there was no way a mesmer could get inside. This isn’t someone trash talking your guild and I am not one to do that. I think he is just trying to make you guys aware because I know you wouldn’t approve of that sort of behavior.

As I stated previously I can look into it but literally without screen shots its like a needle in a haystack. And you did have a member of your server pm me saying he had screen shots and accusing me of having an exploiter’s guild if you want those screen shots pm me privately.

Well I promise that personally, I will be looking to get a screenshot of the culprit, as a wvw rank and visual ID will certainly aid you in your search. I give you my word that this has been happening. I don’t know who that was that pmed you calling you an exploit guild, that has never been my experience with you guys in the slightest, they are very wrong. I am sure we can work together to find the culprit.

Apologies if I came off a bit strong, you’re definitely presenting this with a level head and deserve the benefit of the doubt in my opinion, for what that’s worth. Good luck with the screenshot. None of our servers or guilds should tolerate this crap.

Yeah, I am not usually on SoR bl but I’ve seen it happen a few times now. It’s hard to get a screen since he disappears if someone finds him, I imagine porting to spawn again or something similar. Honestly, nothing against AoS at all. You guys are all stand up guys in my opinion. : ) I will keep in touch.

Nuked.2360:

Lead.1784:

Nuked.2360:

Jahn.7019:

Nuked.2360:

Jahn.7019:

BTW, there is an AoS mesmer exploiting into hills over and over on SoR BL.

Appreciate it if an officer or leader of Army of Shepards would ask him/her to stop. It’s unnecessary.

Thank you in advance.

Hard to figure out who it is without at least a screen shot. I just got pm’d accusing me of being in a guild of hackers and exploiters but said user wouldn’t provide a screen shot. Hopefully you can provide me with a screen shot to go off of otherwise I can’t do much.

He is exploiting in from the spawn point to hills, he’s done it about 4 times now. We’ll try and get you a screenshot, but looking into it on your end as well would be a great start.

Thanks.

You guys do have an elementalist commander on the map. Have them look into it.

Hard to look into when someone who has a screenshot won’t give it to me because he would rather slander me.

I can confirm that this has been happening, whoever is doing it teleports straight into the lords room. Needless to say we are sure that they weren’t hiding in there as it has often happened when there was no way a mesmer could get inside. This isn’t someone trash talking your guild and I am not one to do that. I think he is just trying to make you guys aware because I know you wouldn’t approve of that sort of behavior.

As I stated previously I can look into it but literally without screen shots its like a needle in a haystack. And you did have a member of your server pm me saying he had screen shots and accusing me of having an exploiter’s guild if you want those screen shots pm me privately.

Well I promise that personally, I will be looking to get a screenshot of the culprit, as a wvw rank and visual ID will certainly aid you in your search. I give you my word that this has been happening. I don’t know who that was that pmed you calling you an exploit guild, that has never been my experience with you guys in the slightest, they are very wrong. I am sure we can work together to find the culprit.

Nuked.2360:

Jahn.7019:

Nuked.2360:

Jahn.7019:

BTW, there is an AoS mesmer exploiting into hills over and over on SoR BL.

Appreciate it if an officer or leader of Army of Shepards would ask him/her to stop. It’s unnecessary.

Thank you in advance.

Hard to figure out who it is without at least a screen shot. I just got pm’d accusing me of being in a guild of hackers and exploiters but said user wouldn’t provide a screen shot. Hopefully you can provide me with a screen shot to go off of otherwise I can’t do much.

He is exploiting in from the spawn point to hills, he’s done it about 4 times now. We’ll try and get you a screenshot, but looking into it on your end as well would be a great start.

Thanks.

You guys do have an elementalist commander on the map. Have them look into it.

Hard to look into when someone who has a screenshot won’t give it to me because he would rather slander me.

I can confirm that this has been happening, whoever is doing it teleports straight into the lords room. Needless to say we are sure that they weren’t hiding in there as it has often happened when there was no way a mesmer could get inside. This isn’t someone trash talking your guild and I am not one to do that. I think he is just trying to make you guys aware because I know you wouldn’t approve of that sort of behavior.

Here is what I say Anet does that will make it a great compromise for all. Keep the damage buff, it really isn’t all that powerful against (good) players, but REMOVE the damage it does to siege. Then, add another AC skill, perhaps replacing the one that you get from ranks already with one called “fire arrows” or something similar, that CAN damage siege. Give it an appropriate cooldown and BAM. AC’s are balanced.

sostronk.8167:

Obelith.1365:

sostronk.8167:

Vash.9183:

sostronk.8167:

Hammerguard.9834:

I go to WvW to have fun and I have to see this depressing kitten. Stuck in spawn, getting double teamed. You guys are brilliant…

Don’t worry, as soon as Blackgates sister server drops out of Tier 1 things will be much more fun.

Really? Like, really?? Do you NOT remember how Blackgate was made fun of for so long because we were claiming that JQ and SoR were doing a 2v1 on them? This went on for a very long time. SoR and BG are not close and whatever makes you think that is ridiculous. I can hardly believe I just saw someone from JQ post this.

I thought those complaints were literally a joke tbh. As in, they were watching JQ get double teamed and complaining that it was them getting double teamed. This kind of fit in with alot of other comments (from the same people) at the time that were completely the opposite of what was happening.

I’m honestly not sure of how to take this. A Few weeks ago there was almost this wonderful rotation of one day SoR would spawncamp while JQ took points and the next day it would be JQ’s turn to spawncamp while SoR took points. This typically went on with a couple of guilds (which will remain unnamed for keeping the dramallama in check). I’ll even admit I felt like we (BG) were being double teamed, rather relentlessly. We still pulled through, however.

I never was one to openly voice my personal or tactical opinions of other servers on the forums and really this feigning responsibility, blame, etc is very disappointing from all parties involved. I expected better from the T1 community as a whole to either complain or make excuses. I had really hoped there to be more professionalism and competitive play than this rampant name calling.

tl;dr – Most of you make me a sad panda.

Yet you indulge in it :p

I did think it was literally a joke. Why? Because the first time I read someone from BG say it (and I recall it) I had just come off reset day about 6-8 hours game time where BG hit us in EB on one side taking Klovan and Aldons whilst SOR took WC side. Then both BG and SOR setup tonnes of trebs and both reigned down on the keep. Once the walls went down both delicately avoided each other whilst taking turns raiding the keep attempting to take it.

The same thing is still happening now. Both servers won’t touch easier targets, they only attack JQ. Tactically it made sense in the past to do that when we were ahead and BG and SOR were on equal footing. Now that we are behind it tactically makes no sense at all because we have a larger gap on SOR and they would be best hitting whatever they can take for PPT and attempting to close that gap.

Ha! I remember that night, I was commanding. : )
It was just playing map politics properly, to be honest. Game theory, man.

Zedd.8239:

Kai.9182:

Won’t do any good, they will just hire more artists and make town clothes for the gem store.

What do artists and the gem store have to do with server lag? Oh that’s right. Nothing whatsoever. This, along with many other comments in this thread, are incredibly out of touch with how software development actually works and the limitations that exist in reality.

Artists designing items for the gem store or other content for the game has no impact on network programming or engine programming. They’re different parts of the team. Like with culling, this isn’t a simple issue that merely requires people throwing money at it. It requires a lot of time and resources to fix. The network programming for this game is incredibly complex.

Yes, and it is sub-par.

Yaro.3251:

Lead.1784:

there are way more calculations going on at any given moment server-side in even a normal battle in EVE than there could possibly be going onin GW2

I wouldn’t be quick to state that peremptorily.

Of course I didn’t play EVE so what do I know, but from the looks of battle dynamics in the video you’ve referred to… Man, if players in GW2 were mowing THAT slooooow (not absolute speed but maneuvers relative to fight sphere), I think GW2 servers would run at 10% load max. Character movement is so erratic, dynamic and unpredictable compared to these space ships, so it adds a lot of complexity and CPU load. Overall, GW2 battles look much more dynamic and loaded with movement, skill and ground AoE interactions than what I can see in EVE videos.

And from the looks of it the problem is not with throwing more hardware at the problem, but rather software architecture limitations.

Again, not stating anything firmly here, just an opinion…

I wonder if TiDi-like solution would work in a game like GW2. Would be interesting to see time slowing down just a little when battles become HUGE. Like that spacing out feeling and slomos in movies. But that of course wouldn’t work if slowdown is noticeable since it would have to be global to map at least. Or would it?..

I wonder if it would work, as well. Also, there is definitely more going on in an EVE battle, those big blobs are very uncharacteristic and most fights are skirmishes with smaller ships that move very quickly. The ships in that battle are absurdly large, most fights aren’t between cap fleets. Ill explain why there is so much going on here. Basically lets take for example one type of weapon in eve. A railgun. In eve, in the simplest terms to determine if you even are hit, it calculates the transversal (look it up) and the actual rotation speed of your turrets on your ship. The smaller the turret (usually based on ship size) the more likely you can hit a fast moving ship, this ALSO depends on your maneuvering. If you are spinning the wrong way it can actually make it harder for your turrets to hit. But basically this can allow you in a smaller ship to orbit a larger one while it is impossible to be hit by their weapons. This is just one type of weapon. Missiles even have an explosion velocity when they hit that you can literally outrun in smaller ships. In comparison in GW2 it is basically, are you in an AOE sphere (yes, it is a sphere.) or not? Did someone target you and fire a projectile? You can dodge, and yes it tracks it but that is client side for sure. There are a lot of AoE interactions in eve they are just lightly used in blob warfare like that. They even describe the “firewall” group they have. The other thing too are a main weapon of EvE the drone. This is an AI unit that your deploy and it reacts to your orders and orbits and attacks ships you designate. You can have a ridiculous amount of those in many fights, and especially in those big fights like the video. Many of the huge ships in there were Carriers, which are designed to carry drones. Honestly, GW2 just has issues with the software side of things. You do bring up a good point about the movement, the stuff that is managed by the client is unaffected by “skill lag”, namely, movement. I believe that more stuff is done client side in EvE and they figured out a way to make it work. I am not sure about that though. It would make sense though since it is such a lag-free experience most of the time. We are talking about the same number of players here too. At least as far as lag goes.

Draygo.9473:

Anets got the best server architecture for any MMO ive played.

Do you ever ask yourself – why are the servers up instantly after a patch?
Why is there no downtime?

When other mmo’s update their servers go down for the patch for several hours -not so with arenanet. They are doing something right here.

The answer is that arenanets servers are all virtual. This lets them transition people into new versions seamlessly, they have the new version run alongside the old version, as people log out of the old version and log back into the new version the resources the old version takes drops as the new version increases, until the old version expires (3 mins, unless it is an instance).

The problem is a hardware one and a software one, the problem is mainly a big O problem. The more people in an area doing the maximum amount of actions per second the more server resources that client will take. Huge fights have players spamming their keys and the server is receiving all that information and has to process it all in order. Eve online has similar problems when laaaarge numbers of players would crowd into one tiny spot for a huge fight. Before time dilation (TIDI) the server would be brought to a screeching halt and often just crash. We have a similar problem in gw2, but no TIDI to help the server process everything gracefully in order. So the anet engineers need to work on a solution – and it will be a combination of reducing the amount of cpu work that has to be done and beefing up the wvw server hardware.

Currently think of this when you damage another player the following must be done

Skill base damage increased by your power times the power coefficient for the skill multiply by a random factor, roll to see if it crits, if it crits multiply by the critical damage stat, apply any on hit effects, apply any on crit effects, then calculate damage received by reducing by toughness, check boons for protection and reduce more, does the enemy block it? does it miss? does something else happen to it? (reduce to 0, transfer to pet?). Finally reduce health of target hit by damage, if target is below 0, put in downstate, if already in downstate set to defeated. display information to client hit and client hitting.

From what I estimate there is a lot of calculation going on for a single hit, siege hits are simplified as only wvw traits modify the damage side of the equasion, which is probably why they can up the aoe cap for siege.

Open this: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016640/Guild-Wars-2-Programming-the
then click servers.

The only thing is that in EVE, you could have thousands of people in one system and THAT is when the TiDi really starts to kick in. We are talking less than 300 people here (around 80 a side in a bl) and in EVE especially, this was never a problem on the scale we are seeing. Not only that but there are way more calculations going on at any given moment server-side in even a normal battle in EVE than there could possibly be going onin GW2, transversals, turret rotation speeds, velocities, explosion velocity from missles, DRONES etc. The list goes on and on. There is a deeper issue going on here and I imagine it is a software one, and includes the virtualization element, which can’t be helping. Here is an example where time dilation does NOT occur in EVE until the battle escalates from abou 300-400 to around 2800 people, where it jumps to about 50%, then eventually goes to about 90%. This was recent, too. TiDi is indicated by a green ring on the top left next to the system name, and begins when forces from both sides begin to jump in en-masse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_498260&feature=iv&src_vid=yTQHv0FrgrE&v=TLqb-m1ZZUA

This was even in a low-priority node….. honestly there is no excuse this far into the game’s life.

SFShinigami.2015:

Thresher.3049:

SmokeyNYY.7841:

I hope BG isn’t burning themselves out this week to impress potential transfers

You guys may crash and burn next week if so!

Your concern is very touching, I will kill you last.

A lot of it has much less to do with Blackgate and more with JQQ… see, some people on another server decided they’d try for the 2nd place and in doing so made themselves the big fat target.
Welcome to being piggy in the middle, from someone who’s been there.

The #1 see’s you as a competitor, the #3 is just kicking you to the point you’ll cough up a testicle and breakfast, because you deserve it and at a personal level, I just really like planting people from SOR and burning their ppt. At least I like you that much, JQ has no redeeming features aside from being a screaming red horde of disorganised name tags that we can fairly consistently punch bags out of if we’re not vastly outnumbered by at least 4-1.
(I’m still laughing at the fella saying ‘we only got 40!’, hell mate, if I had 40 KnT on VOIP, on at one time, you are all ended..)

Except FOO, but they are somewhat exceptional and really the only thing holding JQ where it is because everyone else is mostly mediocre-awful at holding onto anything.
In fact I think if FOO decided 2 nights of the week was ‘Lets hit mobs!’, they’d probably wake up at the end of the week to find a smoking crater of ppt with SOR + BG dancing around it and roleplaying yak herders.

(dibs on playing the silvari with the pistol)

Just before I posted this, we were ticking 365. Just because FoO gets us pretty good leads does not mean we can’t hold our own just as well.

Also, the TSYM Necro I just fought at north camp on SoR for 10 minutes until a thief came along and joined the fight….It was a fantastic fight until that happened. (I was the grenade engie who couldn’t aim his grenades because its sleepy sleepy time)

That was me! I was so sad when he showed up. Rematch?

Rawnoodles.1398:

Lead.1784:

Rawnoodles.1398:

Organized guilds running during NA time
SoR

• Choo: 40+
• TW/TWL 50+
• TSYM: 60+
• SHAP : 40+
• SSQ : 25+
• FEAR: 50+
• SIN: 20+
• CDS: 20+
• HIRE: 15+
• Hal: 20+
• Plum: 30+
• GSCH: 30+

I think there has been one night I can remember when we had 60 TSym out on the field on a given night, and that was a LONG time ago. Its pretty rare. We average around 40-50 on primetime at best. I know cause I stack and count supply and players quite a bit.

Its just a rough list on what we’ve seen the past few weeks

Yeah I know, I wasn’t bent out of shape about it or anything, just chiming in. ^^

Rawnoodles.1398:

Organized guilds running during NA time
SoR

• Choo: 40+
• TW/TWL 50+
• TSYM: 60+
• SHAP : 40+
• SSQ : 25+
• FEAR: 50+
• SIN: 20+
• CDS: 20+
• HIRE: 15+
• Hal: 20+
• Plum: 30+
• GSCH: 30+

I think there has been one night I can remember when we had 60 TSym out on the field on a given night, and that was a LONG time ago. Its pretty rare. We average around 40-50 on primetime at best. I know cause I stack and count supply and players quite a bit. On that note, keep it classy EMP, as always. See you out the field noodles.

I like the idea of different modes since you could have a commander with the overt setting running the militia since they will all flock to it like a beacon-and then guild groups could have a sneakier one and coordinate with the militia commander with a chat box, VoIP, etc.

Masamoon.3864:

Just stop responding to him. You guys know, he knows. No sense in bothering. The amount of stupid i’ve been reading is literally hurting my brain.

But he’s just so FUNNY. What a diplomat. :)

Valor.2453:

Good Evening all, I’m one of the leaders within LotD on BG and wanted to come in and thank SOR and JQ for the great fights. Yes, it feels like we are fighting allied servers against us at times, but one thing that has kept us motivated against it all, is knowing that we can log in and have no shortage of enemies to fight.

Sadly, there is a bit of a numbers game here and it’s pretty clear that when SOR and JQ both have us targeted we struggle to match both forces.

Again, thanks for the fun fights.

Of course! Its always great fighting you guys.

Vodka.3958:

Lead.1784:

Churchill.8714:

Azure.8412:

Lead.1784:

Vodka.3958:

Lead.1784:

Vodka.3958:

Kryyg.8576:

The medal also looks sweet next to SBI and SoS, and we all know what happened to those servers.

It looks sweetest next to JQ server though I’d say.

SBI & SoS had huge problems from within which was the cause for their implosion. It’s very noticeable that the same problem has moved to SoR now.

I for one am lucky to be on Blackgate, a server that doesn’t have any sort of negative internal issues & where the entire community treats each other as though we are all family. Much respect for my fellow beastgater’s
Fight on!

There was literally no unity on SoS and that was what the problem was. We didn’t even have a server team speak until we started losing and people got frantic.

SoR is literally the most unified server I have ever experienced, everyone is warm and friendly and willing to work together on a level I am simply not used to.

Well if you’re coming from SoS, (a server that supposedly had no unity) into SoR, (a server with a little unity) of course you would think that your current server is the best because you haven’t experienced any better. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for you and your guild; I just hope that you all will be able to fix the current problems that SoR is facing…

Wait, which server is having internal issues? I might have a guess…

So can i.

It’s good you just got back to T1 and already fit in perfectly at SoR.

I’m just calling vodka on his kitten that’s all. I hardly ever post on this forum but the kittentalk from him about my guild warranted a response.

Please, quote me where I said anything about TSYM. I’d love to see where I mentioned your guild and if you show it, then I will apologize

Don’t insult my intelligence. Thanks.

Vodka.3958:

Lead.1784:

Vodka.3958:

Lead.1784:

Vodka.3958:

Azure.8412:

Esoteric.5490:

Azure.8412:

Esoteric.5490:

Azure, I have a lot of respect for your guild and the decision you all made in moving to SoR, you were sorely needed in your time zone. I particularly enjoyed Stealthzor’s company while he scouted our server. Just because you moved to a server with a large number of forum warriors, however, doesn’t mean you have to be one yourself.

Good fights in EB last night. The match is what it is and I’m going to keep playing the game that I enjoy no matter what turns the meta or coverage may seem to take.

Am i a forum warrior now? Im just telling others to ignore him.

It just perpetuates the problem. Report and move on :)

Will ignore Vodka from now on. :) I got carried away talking to a troll who boasts and spreads rumours and information without clear and valid evidence.

I don’t believe I was boasting or spreading any rumours. You’ll find out soon enough ;)

I think all the evidence we need was in the last score update, Vodka. ;)

Not sure if you were with us we beat JQ last time, but we caught up a 23k deficit and turned it into a 15k lead all within the last 2 days. There is still a lot of time this week and whether we win or lose, just look at that gold medal that is right next to Blackgate.
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/histories

Was anyone talking about that? Why not do it again? You don’t even have to make up even close to that much. The week I showed up on SoR we turned a 36k deficit behind you guys into second place. Do we get a medal now?

That’s exactly the type of impact that 1 huge guild can have on a server… SoR got more than 1 huge guild transfer to them recently and now it is showing more and more in the ratings.

Hear hear for the coverage wars!

I moved early, man. ;)

Vodka.3958:

Lead.1784:

Vodka.3958:

Azure.8412:

Esoteric.5490:

Azure.8412:

Esoteric.5490:

Azure, I have a lot of respect for your guild and the decision you all made in moving to SoR, you were sorely needed in your time zone. I particularly enjoyed Stealthzor’s company while he scouted our server. Just because you moved to a server with a large number of forum warriors, however, doesn’t mean you have to be one yourself.

Good fights in EB last night. The match is what it is and I’m going to keep playing the game that I enjoy no matter what turns the meta or coverage may seem to take.

Am i a forum warrior now? Im just telling others to ignore him.

It just perpetuates the problem. Report and move on :)

Will ignore Vodka from now on. :) I got carried away talking to a troll who boasts and spreads rumours and information without clear and valid evidence.

I don’t believe I was boasting or spreading any rumours. You’ll find out soon enough ;)

I think all the evidence we need was in the last score update, Vodka. ;)

Not sure if you were with us we beat JQ last time, but we caught up a 23k deficit and turned it into a 15k lead all within the last 2 days. There is still a lot of time this week and whether we win or lose, just look at that gold medal that is right next to Blackgate.
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/histories

Was anyone talking about that? Why not do it again? You don’t even have to make up even close to that much. The week I showed up on SoR we turned a 36k deficit behind you guys into second place. Do we get a medal now?

Vodka.3958:

Lead.1784:

Vodka.3958:

Kryyg.8576:

The medal also looks sweet next to SBI and SoS, and we all know what happened to those servers.

It looks sweetest next to JQ server though I’d say.

SBI & SoS had huge problems from within which was the cause for their implosion. It’s very noticeable that the same problem has moved to SoR now.

I for one am lucky to be on Blackgate, a server that doesn’t have any sort of negative internal issues & where the entire community treats each other as though we are all family. Much respect for my fellow beastgater’s
Fight on!

There was literally no unity on SoS and that was what the problem was. We didn’t even have a server team speak until we started losing and people got frantic.

SoR is literally the most unified server I have ever experienced, everyone is warm and friendly and willing to work together on a level I am simply not used to.

Well if you’re coming from SoS, (a server that supposedly had no unity) into SoR, (a server with a little unity) of course you would think that your current server is the best because you haven’t experienced any better. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for you and your guild; I just hope that you all will be able to fix the current problems that SoR is facing…

Wait, which server is having internal issues? I might have a guess…

Vodka.3958:

Kryyg.8576:

The medal also looks sweet next to SBI and SoS, and we all know what happened to those servers.

It looks sweetest next to JQ server though I’d say.

SBI & SoS had huge problems from within which was the cause for their implosion. It’s very noticeable that the same problem has moved to SoR now.

I for one am lucky to be on Blackgate, a server that doesn’t have any sort of negative internal issues & where the entire community treats each other as though we are all family. Much respect for my fellow beastgater’s
Fight on!

The same problem? From what you are implying I can bet that I know what you are talking about. If you think that certain guilds or one certain guild were the problem on SoS then you are grossly misinformed. There was literally no unity on SoS and that was what the problem was. We didn’t even have a server team speak until we started losing and people got frantic. The blame was cast of course on the people who were attempting to bring unity and cooperation to the server. Every idea shot down as a control grab, when it was anything but. All the while going out there every day while others gave up on the server as a whole. The interesting thing is that many of the organizational ideas that we had were already in effect on SoR when we showed up. SoR is literally the most unified server I have ever experienced, everyone is warm and friendly and willing to work together on a level I am simply not used to. No demands are made of us to be anything but ourselves. The positive atmosphere here is amazingly refreshing and makes me even more inspired to work with my new friends. You speak of the negativity on SoS as if you were there, although you might as well have been. It came to you.

Rawnoodles.1398:

Lead.1784:

Who was the [EMP] Charr commander with Sunrise I dueled yesterday north of Bay? Good fight man. I was the TSym necro.

People have been calling him the “Golden Sunrise Commander”.

He is always down for some 1v1 if you spot him on the field.

Well let him know I’m down to duel anytime! He is welcome to have another crack at me. :)

Who was the [EMP] Charr commander with Sunrise I dueled yesterday north of Bay? Good fight man. I was the TSym necro.

Kovu.7560:

Dat golem rush…

Oh yeah, you liked those Omegas? Courtesy of TSym my friend.