Guild Wars 2

It’s not just the Maguuma maps. I assumed it was because of Halloween and tried the Labyrinth, but it’s been deserted every time too.

koroshi.2658:

Ew static discharge…. anyone who knows where to find the dodge button can counter that.

If only there were some kind of resource that was depleted by dodging…

Caffeine.6724:

Think s/d burst is viable in wvw roaming solo and in small groups? Just can’t seem to decide what sort of setup to run these days.. tho the idea of eventually getting the legendary rifle is tempting, I don’t wanna go for it, and then realize rifle builds are no good. I love the use of the rifle, just not sure s/d is gunna offer me anything other than wtfpwning ONE target, and becoming lunch for his friends if they show up.

Try rifle? or go to a p/p condi build? Help me pahlease…

SD burst is viable, it’s just a lot less forgiving than a flavor of the month p/s explosives build if you’re playing glassy. There are some class builds you’ll come up against that you’re not terribly likely to win against assuming a perfectly fair fight, but that’s the story of your life as an engineer regardless. Lately Arenanet has grown fond of nerfing condition damage through better cleanses and changes like the blanket immunity above a certain HP threshold that elementalists got, so that coupled with the Incendiary Powder nerf has made playing condition a lot more annoying.

In the end it mostly boils down to playstyle. I felt more useful using pistol/shield in roaming since I could last longer in 1vX fights, but in teamfights I prefer SD because I can actually do a respectable amount of damage before one of my teammates dies. Personal preference figures in too. I think playing condition is about as entertaining as watching paint dry. Roaming is kind of starting to die, too, at least in higher tiers. Maybe Edge of the Mists will revive it, but who knows how far away that is.

All that said, I wouldn’t go for a legendary or ascended gear until you’ve tried both and decided which one you like more.

I’d say it’s pretty clear they made Quip with mesmers in mind. I wouldn’t be caught dead using it on a thief or engineer. It might be mildly amusing for a few days, but if I’m going to spend weeks grinding out a legendary I expect it to look good.

Fortunately I’m spared from that decision since I play the one class that gains pretty much zero benefit from having a legendary, anyway. Thanks, Arenanet… I guess.

I don’t think the gas mask drops from glory boxes, people just assumed it did because of the air filtration device. I’ve seen the latter drop, but not the former… and I know a few people trying to acquire this skin.

The notes for engineer say you want to promote build diversity, but the change to Incendiary Powder absolutely guts a dozen builds. It more or less kills the majority of HGH builds out there.

Honestly, I’m tempted to just say screw it and go for a full SD/grenadier build with Zerker in WvW now. It seems like we’re being increasingly forced to choose between having damage or utility, and if I’m going to sacrifice survivability traits for a condition/HGH build (by having to go even deeper into Explosives) I might as well switch to power and burst people down.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Terrahero.9358:

Inc Powder is now Master tier.

I am a bit interested to see what will happen as result of this. I am not actually surprised it is moved to the master tier because it was arguably one of the bests traits in the entire explosives line that could be acquired by 10-dipping.

For instance, 3 out of the 5 specs I consistently run put 10 into explosives for incendiary powder. One is my SD burst build, which won’t really be affected by this since other options are easily available. Another is my ft/eg healing-support build, which will take a nice DPS hit but isn’t the crux of it. It will really hurt my p/p roamer spec though, which ran 10/30/0/30/0 and really benefited from that extra burning on crit.

As far as competing with traits like short fuse, one could always take shrapnel instead. I believe there was some calculations presented at one point which showed that shrapnel is actually better than incendiary powder provided most attacking is done with grenades and the fight lasts longer than 15-20 seconds. So I am not sure it will strongly affect grenade users.

The issue is that it really screws non-grenade condition users, which is a popular build in PvP. I’m not sure what I’m going to spec now, because the fact that Incendiary Powder is competing with Enhance Performance costs me a lot of my damage potential.

Disappointing. I wish our power builds were more impressive.

These changes seem kind of underwhelming from a PvP standpoint, minus the Vigor nerf which is pretty significant.

I’m just not seeing Modified Ammunition making Firearms worth a 30 point dump. Even from a PvE DPS perspective it doesn’t seem worthwhile.

It still misses tics if you don’t aim it manually, that was my point. I was testing it earlier in sPvP and PvE. And the point of the thread was to find out if there’s something the flamethrower does better now than our other options and if that’s the reason people have started using it more, but it seems the answer to that question is no. It’s still just a stylistic thing.

And Coglin, you haven’t really offered anything other than passive aggressiveness.

Daendur.2357:

OP is not here to understand. He’s just here to spam his QQ.

d/d thief landing 2 c&d in a couple of seconds

full PVT gear (and traits? and food ? and skills?) a pvt gear doesn’t worth anything if not put in a proper build.

it wasn’t a 1vs1 so OP could have had 10/15 vulnerability stacks

This is clearly a l2p issue or just a thief doing his job.

btw, a glassy war can 1shot you with eviscerate.

Here we go with the ever shifting goalposts again. Now I might have had stacks of vulnerability applied by someone else.

Zacchary.6183:

Maderas.9741:

Zacchary.6183:

That is a flat out lie, Maderas.

You’re going to have to be more specific.

You havn’t listened to anyone in the past 3 pages. You refuse to give up any of the info that multiple people have asked you for and you will never give it up because everyone here knows that everyone will rip it apart and completely blow your statements out of the water.

What information? I already gave my armor value and the gear I run.

Zacchary.6183:

That is a flat out lie, Maderas.

You’re going to have to be more specific.

Zacchary.6183:

I’m pretty sure that if I know the class about 100x more than you and played the class infinitely longer, that I have the room to dismiss your posts and point out the major flaws of your argument.

And yes, before you start accusing me of not reading I have read everything you’ve wrote and you constantly ignore anything that doesn’t support you. For all intents and purposes, posting a picture of a 5 digit number does not mean that your solution to it is justified and you need to get that out of your head.

Your arguments have been picked apart enough already. I’m open to admitting I’m wrong if anybody could give me a justifiable reason why thieves can burst down people in tank gear in 2 seconds, whereas you are completely delusional and live in a fantasy world where the class is underpowered. You’re no authority on anything.

Youkay.5294:

Maderas.9741:

I don’t have a stunbreak, no. I don’t need a stunbreak when fighting any other class in the game because I have 22,000 HP and nearly 2,800 armor. Not even hammer warriors are capable of stunlocking me to death in the span of a couple seconds, which really says a lot.

It does say a lot. A lot about your failure the grasp the core elements of the game. Comparing bursting ability of a GC thief and a hammer warrior… seriously…

Are you suggesting warriors don’t hit hard? No, they don’t hit as hard as thieves. No other class hits as hard as thieves. That’s kind of the point. Either you continue hitting as hard as you do now and give up the insane survivability you gain via stealth spam, or you keep the stealth spam and do less damage. The idea that you somehow deserve both is ludicrous.

Incurafy.6329:

Maderas.9741:

I don’t have a stunbreak, no. I don’t need a stunbreak when fighting any other class in the game because I have 22,000 HP and nearly 2,800 armor. Not even hammer warriors are capable of stunlocking me to death in the span of a couple seconds, which really says a lot.

I LOL’d so hard.

This conversation is over, you’re absolutely hilarious. Here’s a tip, carry a stunbreaker and stop lying, it’s bad for your argument.

I have yet to be killed without putting up a fight against a hammer warrior. Their stuns are also much easier to see and dodge than a thief’s.

Glad to have amused you, though somehow I doubt it’s very difficult to do.

Kaizer.7135:

Maderas.9741:

I don’t have a stunbreak, no. I don’t need a stunbreak when fighting any other class in the game because I have 22,000 HP and nearly 2,800 armor. Not even hammer warriors are capable of stunlocking me to death in the span of a couple seconds, which really says a lot.

Not sure if trolling, or just stupid.

Good retort. The fact remains I have no problems squaring off against what is currently held up as the golden standard of an overpowered class by almost everyone on the forum, and am effortlessly slaughtered with the same build vs. any mouthbreathing thief running a glass cannon spec.

I also love how you’re all completely ignoring Arius’ post, which perfectly summarizes how every skirmish against a group with a glass cannon thief in it plays out unless the thief is a mental invalid. Thief burst is out of hand.

Zacchary.6183:

I don’t play quote wars.

Arius, he did, in fact use ad hominem when he completely dismissed a great majority of what the opposition said (which was valid) and I got labeled a whining thief with a god complex. “According to you.” dismisses my arguments because of course I am me. There are also a few other places where he dismisses and starts labeling other commenters in the same way.

I guess you could call it straw man as well.

I said “according to you” because you dismissed my post as having no value, as if you’re some kind of authority figure with the final say in what is or is not relevant. You aren’t. Get over yourself. Your god complex is in full swing again this post.

Isslair.4908:

For majority of classes being stunned means loosing a significant amount of life and combat initiative, leading to a defeat.
But your class, whatever it is, apparently can outperform any other class (from your words) without even needing a stunbreaker.
So you’re tottally ok with facerolling against everyone without any defensive options, but still think that a single spesialized and situational thief build is op.
Gotta love the logic.

You’re just making kitten up now. I didn’t say I can “faceroll” every other class without a stunbreak, I said I didn’t need a stunbreak to fight other classes because other classes can’t kill me in the duration of a single stun like thieves regularly do. Not to mention it’s a wee bit easier to avoid, say, a warrior leaping through the air with a maul over his head than a thief who teleports on top of you with Steal and Basilisk Venom.

Isslair.4908:

All this “I didn’t saw thief coming for me in a zerg fight – thief op” makes kinda no sense.
It could be a warrior stunlocking you, it could be ele perma CCing you, it could be necro perma fearing you. Hell, it could be a single immobilize followed by a melee train. In large fights things like this happen. Has nothing to do with a thief.
In a roaming 1v1 scenario this should not be happening – you must have some defensive skills, it’s not pve. Mistform\rtl\trollnado\armor of earth\lightning flash etc., etc. And every class has a number of those options. Deny the CnD or backstab and watch how thief runs away.

I didn’t say zerg fight, I said it was a 3v3 skirmish. No other class kills me in two seconds unless I have a stunbreak slotted. That’s exclusive to thieves.

Isslair.4908:

Let’s talk about broken classes, shall we.

What? You do realize the vast majority of classes can’t kill a toughness/vita build in the span of a single stun, right?

Incurafy.6329:

The time for the Thief to get in range is related to the fact that while you were preoccupied fighting you still should have looked around every now and then to check to see if your enemy had any reinforcements coming. This is a simple tactic that is known as “situational awareness”.

So if you’re in a team fight and there’s a thief on the other side, you should save all of your survivability skills + dodges for the thief and ignore any damage coming from any other member of their party or else the thief gets to instagib you. Sounds fair.

Incurafy.6329:

Now, if you were downed before you got hit by the second CnD, then why did you keep saying “30k damage in an instant!!111” earlier in your thread, when in reality, it was 20k?

I said ‘almost 30k damage’. Even if you subtract the second C&D the thief hit me for 26,271 damage in the span of a few seconds.

Incurafy.6329:

Also, I don’t know if you’ve answered this or not, but were you carrying a stun breaker, and was it off CD?

I don’t have a stunbreak, no. I don’t need a stunbreak when fighting any other class in the game because I have 22,000 HP and nearly 2,800 armor. Not even hammer warriors are capable of stunlocking me to death in the span of a couple seconds, which really says a lot.

Having a stunbreaker wouldn’t have saved me in this scenario anyway because it was a teamfight. The same thing happened several other times throughout the course of the evening, both with and without the application of Basilisk Venom. The fact is, it is far more difficult to avoid being killed by a thief running this cheese than it is for the thief to kill somebody with it. The thief can basically sit back, wait until somebody dodges, and then annihilate them because they have no way of mitigating the damage. It’s inane.

Incurafy.6329:

Yes you did, lmao…

No. You do not break 3k armor running full medium exotic Dire + rabid accessories. You are wrong.

Incurafy.6329:

Also, I never said that you had any more than four seconds to react, other people said that. Judging by the, again, almost non-existent information you gave in the OP (a combat log screenshot doesn’t count, and I’m not asking you to post individual everythingz, just a screenshot of your gear + stats with the combat log, you on the ground dead would also help, but isn’t necessary), assuming you weren’t killed after the first combo, you had at least three more seconds to react after the combo was done, and that’s not even including the time that it took for the Thief to get in range of you, use his utilities, and do the combo beforehand. The fact that you then took half of an auto chain and ANOTHER CnD to die means that you clearly had plenty of time to react to the situation.

I WAS DOWNED BEFORE I GOT HIT BY THE SECOND C&D. I CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER, SO PLEASE ALLOW IT TO REGISTER THIS TIME.

The whole “the time it took for the thief to get in range” bit is ridiculous, too. It’s not difficult for a thief to get in range of you during a team skirmish or when he runs up on you while you’re fighting someone else. So because I lack prescience and couldn’t use ESP to detect the incoming thief, and perfectly dodge his opener, I deserve to die instantly despite my gear? Right.

Maugetarr.6823:

So quick question just so we can clear this up. How much armor do you have? You keep saying you’re full dire exo, but under 3k armor. I don’t consider armor high until they hit about 3100. That would be why we asked for a full screenshot in the first place.

With exotic Dire armor/weapons and ascended Rabid accessories you sit around 2700 armor. I don’t even know that it’s possible to hit 3100 armor as a medium armor wearer unless I either a) severely kitten my damage output and basically go full bunker or b) invest heavily into the toughness trait line; neither of which I think is a reasonable price to pay simply so that I don’t instantly die to any glass cannon thief who happens to look in my direction.

keenlam.4753:

So OP got ganked by a thief while busying doing something else and not paying enough attention. No breaking news here. It happens quite often in WvW.

For a class that is specifically designed to rely on the element of surprise to prevail, I think it’s working as intended.

Get over it, learn from it and be more cautious next time.

By “not paying enough attention” you must mean “a thief came across someone engaged in a fight and got a free kill, because it’s completely reasonable that the only way to not be instakilled by a thief is to reserve every single one of your dodges and stunbreaks for the off chance that some thief might decide to try to gank you.” Doesn’t matter if you’re running toughness/vita gear or building tank; no, if a thief expends the effort to use Steal on you and you don’t time your dodge perfectly, you deserve to be slaughtered in seconds. Balance.

Incurafy.6329:

And another person wholly incapable of reading that he meant 3000 armour (as seen in the calculations), not toughness, which is exactly what you claim to have had.

I’m not even going to bother replying to your previous post, it’s just so full of bullkitten that it would be a waste of my time to even try and reason with you.

How about next time you take a screenshot of the entire screen, including your equipment and stats so that we can actually know what the hell you’re talking about? Your OP had literally no information and then you got all defensive and cried foul when you were called out on your bullkitten.

I also find it absolutely hilarious that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that you weren’t killed without time to react and had at LEAST four seconds to react, lol.

Learn to play, it’s as simple as that.

I’ve never once claimed to have over 3000 armor or toughness, so I really have no idea what you’re even talking about. Again, you are wrong. My OP had the combat log, and I listed what equipment I was using. I’m not taking individual screenshots of every single piece of equipment + tooltip so you all can immediately start accusing me of finding them online, doctoring them, or having taken them on a different character. Like I said, it’s already been established that you will keep moving the goalposts to support your viewpoints. Why should I waste the effort?

I also like how my reaction window keeps shrinking. First it was seven or eight seconds, then five or six, now you’re saying four. I suppose now you’re going to start trilling about how I got hit by Cloak and Dagger twice.

Sifu.6527:

I edited my post.

But I really don’t see where the problem is.

That a person with 22,000 hitpoints and 1600+ toughness shouldn’t be getting bursted down in 2 seconds like they’re wearing Berserker.

Zacchary.6183:

And you thinking your argument is valid is called an opinion and disregarding my comments because you think I have a god complex is called Ad Hominem which is an informal fallacy. Secondly, I don’t give my opinion on anything unless I have made observations on it which is entirely different from your opinions that are based upon one incident and popular belief.

Your original point is valid because thieves (being the best burst class) can hit for 10k in one shot. However, any rational debater would point out that you are biased and you lack a great amount of information. And they would not take you seriously because you have absolutely nothing to back up your statements that this needs to be toned down other than your word and popular belief which is false.

We all get that a thief hit you for 11k and you got your ego hurt, but guess what, you are the the 1000th person to complain about it and therefore nobody really cares.

If you don’t wanna take a week to learn about a class that is kicking your kitten , then its all good because it will keep killing you until you do. This is what “L2P” entails.

I think common sense fairly well dictates that it’s unacceptable that thieves can burst down people running 1600+ toughness in the span of two seconds. What is the point of toughness even existing in the first place if not to prevent instant death to burst damage? Maybe the fact that this has come up time and time again since launch ought to tell you something. I certainly don’t see people whining about Static Discharge very often even though it’s supposed just as good as this thief build.

You do have god complex. You seem to think reality should conform to your whims. Just because you think it’s okay for thieves to crank out such obscene amounts of damage doesn’t mean it is. Why does Toughness exist as a stat if this is okay? Why should anybody sacrifice half their DPS to run toughness armor when thieves will just kitten on them anyway? Explain that to me, since you’re such an enlightened guru on the tenets of class/itemization balance.

You know a person has no real point when they start busting out ad-hom accusations. By the way, saying my point is invalid because “nobody cares” is argumentum ad populum. At least be bothered to avoid making informal fallacies if you’re going to try to call me out on them.

Sifu.6527:

Maderas.9741:

All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react. This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Explain to me why this is allowed. And before you launch into the usual “glass cannon” blanket justification, any DP/shortbow thief worth their weight in salt is pretty much impossible to catch with the stealth spam even in full Berserker’s… so that’s a moot point.

I’m going to call BS that you have over 3K toughness.

Assuming all Berz gear and all ascended pieces, 25 stack of might, and 250 power from sigil stack, 60 bloodlust, his power will be at 3455.

The damage formula is 3455*wpn (1030 for ascended) = 3558650 *2.4 skill coef = 8540760 / armor 3000 = 2846.92 * damage increase 60% = kitten * crit damage 120% = 10021 total damage.

Basically, I just proved that you’re a liar.

Thanks,

And another thief wholly incapable of reading joins the fray. Once again, I never said I have over 3,000 toughness; I said I’m running full Dire exotics with Rabid ascended trinkets.

Incurafy.6329:

That’s exactly what Thieves do, but you’ve completely ignored all attempts to explain that to you.

Based on the almost non-existent information you’ve given us, OP, the build used against you was likely something like this:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V;1ZwV0-K5VOFd0;9;4OT;0E28-17A;44;05BW4;2G3G3G3G35BP

Now, please do explain to me how the Thief stealthed and got away with ease using that build after killing you because you weren’t carrying a stunbreaker and don’t know how to dodge.

No, you don’t. You need to play a class without access to stealth if you want to know what sacrificing all survivability is really like.

And that’s not the build she was using. She had Shadow Refuge and was running DD/DP, which should make it obvious how she escaped after killing me. Once she broke combat with stealth spam she would swap out to shortbow and teleport away… though as Arius pointed out, a thief running this build rarely needs to run unless they’re outnumbered 5:1.

You all are clearly drastically over-exaggerating just how necessary it is to run full damage signets to attain the damage I linked in the screenshot, because that thief very clearly had Shadow Refuge. WvW in tier 1 is full to the brim with thieves running this build, slaughtering people, and escaping regularly. For all the people telling me I have no practical knowledge of the class, I shouldn’t have to explain how it works to you.

It obviously isn’t going to work if you try to use it on somebody in the middle of a zerg, but no other class has that advantage either so I’m not sure why it keeps being brought up.

Zacchary.6183:

Maderas.9741:

I’m afraid you don’t decree when the thread is or isn’t done.

No I don’t. But you don’t have a valid argument which makes this thread a troll post. this thread is null by default.

According to you. I, however, think I make a very valid argument that someone running toughness/vita gear should not be getting hit for nearly 30,000 damage in the span of a couple seconds.

Take your god complex elsewhere. Your opinion is just that. Opinion.

Arius.7031:

But, it is broken, insofar as its stealth mechanic is easily abused in order to give exceedingly high survivability, and its burst is simply too high and too hard to avoid.

I couldn’t agree more, which is the reason I made this thread – to highlight just how ridiculous their burst is. You’ve also perfectly encapsulated how every single engagement against a geared thief running this cheese build plays out assuming the thief is even semi-capable. Sadly, I guess we have to work in the cattle industry to know what bullkitten smells like.

Somebody mentioned Static Discharge engineers hitting as hard as thieves upthread. I’d say that’s highly debatable, but even if it’s true, the golden difference here is that an SD engineer sacrifices every ounce of survivability they possess in order to attain that damage. Apparently thieves have become so entitled now that they don’t consider stealth a survivability skill.

Incurafy.6329:

You didn’t die in a few seconds, OP, because it took at LEAST 4 seconds to kill you. You were hit by the CnD > Steal > Backstab combo, and assuming you didn’t die at that point (we have no way of knowing because your OP is full of crap and offers no evidence other than a tiny screenshot of some damage numbers in chat), the Thief had to wait THREE MORE SECONDS BEFORE HE COULD USE CLOAK AND DAGGER A SECOND TIME. AGAIN, THAT’S THREE SECONDS.

THREE.
THREE.
THREE.

Learn to play.

I’ve answered this twice now. Learn to read.

Zacchary.6183:

If you don’t have anything constructive to say other than 11k damage in one hit is too much then this thread is done.

As opposed to your constant whining that the class isn’t any good when it’s one of the most powerful PvP classes in the game by far. When I’m in WvW I see far more thieves than rangers, or engineers, or elementalists, or mesmers, or necromancers… or any class that isn’t warrior. Funny how that works when the class is so very, very bad. And 28,000 damage in a few seconds is too much when the thief is engaging a target running full toughness/vita gear. You keep blathering on about how nobody is allowed to make observations on the class’ damage unless they play a level 80 thief, but the fact remains that people running toughness/vita gear should not be getting nearly instakilled by glass cannon thieves. The combat log linked in the OP should not happen. Ever.

I’m afraid you don’t decree when the thread is or isn’t done.

coglin.1867:

Maderas.9741:

coglin.1867:

Landing hits is very easy. It is much much better then back at release, so I am unclear why your claiming otherwise.

Because the #1 skill still misses ticks and does reduced damage unless your target is in the middle of your screen, and the napalm skill requires you to manually trigger the explosion which is a pain you’re being spammed with particle effects during large fights.

Actually, all you have to do is face the target, its pretty darn simple. If your missing the target, your the problem.

As far as the napalm, I am unclear what your talking about, its a ground targeting skill, you may be referring to flameblast and triggering the detonation, if that is the case, then I fail to see your complaint, as the control on the detonation was ravagely demanded by us regular engineers here on the forums until the devs changed it to its current form based on player feed back. So if your complaining that you take issue with it working the way the vast majority requested, then there is nothing I can do for you when your in the small minority here.

“Facing your target”, IE keeping them dead center in the middle of your screen, like I already said, isn’t always feasible in PvP. Especially not in 1vX scenarios. It would be nice if the skill could manage to hit without my having to manually aim it, like almost every other autoattack in the game.

I take issue with having to manually detonate it when it can be almost impossible to tell where the flame ball actually is during large fights, not to mention the ever prevalent ability lag making it even harder to time correctly. It would be nice if it could just, you know, hit the target it’s being aimed at. It’s not like it does so much damage that manual detonation should be a requirement.

magical giant.8650:

You need to look at flamethrower 1# from a different perspective, see it as a condition is it still bad? it’s all from 2-4k over 2sec.

Perhaps, but you’re giving up another useful utility like Tool Kit or Rocket Boots for an extra DoT.

Zacchary.6183:

I’m pretty sure when thieves are talking about thieves that thieves’ words have more weight than non-thieves talking about thieves.

Me being a former thief, who has spent over a year theorycrafting every trait and build that I could possibly think of, can say “you should pay more attention and dodge more” without ever needing to read another post of your’s because unlike you I know how the thief works.

Thieves cannot magically pull 30k out of our kitten whenever we want to. But if you REALLY wanna beat the dead horse into another puddle then all I ask is:

“If it is so OP why aren’t you playing it?”

Funny, the thief who murdered me certainly had no problems pulling it out of her hat every time I’d run into her during a day in EB.

As for your latter question – because I can’t be bothered to level one, and because I have more self respect than to switch from a class I enjoy to one that has an overpowered build.

Not all of us want to win at any cost. We’re the ones who still haven’t rerolled thief/warrior.

Zacchary.6183:

You need to know way more than that before you even enter the thief forums.

According to thieves, anyway. I’d feel the same way if I could do 30,000 damage in ~2.5s to somebody in Dire exotics/ascended, I’m sure.

Zacchary.6183:

You’ve ignored the fact that you are complaining about the class that suppose to have the highest burst. You ignore information given to you from people with REAL experience. You refuse to prove you have any knowledge of this class whatsoever.

The only thing you’ve shown so far is that you can copy the complaints of bad players. If you can’t show anyone here that you know anything beyond popular belief, then you have no legitimate argument.

Yeah, no practical knowledge of the class aside from the fact that I can be bursted down nigh instantly in full Dire gear. That’s all I really need to know within the context of this post. The thief line seems to be that it’s perfectly reasonable that any and everyone, even people running tanky gear, should be murdered if they don’t manage to dodge the thief’s opener – an opener which is almost impossible to dodge in anything other than a 1v1 scenario if they’re running Basilisk and use Steal on you; which speaks volume as to how reasonable you actually are.

xmtrcv.5236:

Maderas.9741:

Maugetarr.6823:

Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.

How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.

Stealth for D/P = Black Powder + Heartseeker
Stealth for D/D = Steal | Infiltrator’s Signet + Cloak and Dagger

Funny thing is, I don’t see a single Heartseeker in this chain. What I do see is two CnDs (one from Steal). The other just tells me you were standing there. Coupled with those kinds of numbers, you got picked out as a soft target, and for good reason.

Sorry

I never said he used stealth spam when he killed me, I said the “zero survivability” argument is moot since any thief running this build has access to stealth spam via Black Powder. I already answered somebody else about the two C&Ds.

I’m noticing that a lack of reading comprehension is a trend in this subforum.

Zacchary.6183:

I don’t think its fair that I have to dump 55 points, gear up glassy, fill my utility slots with 1 of the 3 most useless utilities and then search for some idiot who’se afking outside a tower to have any effectiveness in WvW.

Then again I don’t play thieves anymore, but you get my point.

Yeah, because AFK people are the only ones it’s even conceivable you could land this on what with having Steal and Basilisk Venom.

And to the rest of you saying I provided no proof of my gear/level… no, I’m not going to go to the effort of individually screenshotting each tooltip for all my armor and accessories just so you can move the goalposts again.

Who other than warriors or guardians has 3000 armor without dumping 30 points into their Toughness traitline? I’m running Dire exotics with ascended accessories with toughness on them and I don’t have 3,000 armor.

Sorry, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to have to invest 30 points into a traitline solely to keep from being facerolled by a glass cannon thief.

Arkitech.9158:

I see you throwing around the word “moot” a lot. I hope you know that “moot” means debatable. So a moot point is a point that is up for debate.

moot (mut)

adj.
-of little or no practical value or meaning; hypothetical; purely academic.

It has more than one meaning. Recheck your dictionary.

Walker.3056:

He used his steal + CnD + BS + AUTO CHAIN + CnD again…. dude how couldnt you even run and dodge? you could stun him or fear him idk wich class you are but u just needed to stun break or move and dodge after backstab so easy to counter….

And as people already said IF you are full Toughness/Vitality and took a 11k BS its cause the thief runs a pure glass full signet build with no STUN BREAK in it… Dodge the burst stun him and win… GG

I dont like to say it but its really a matter of L2P

I was already downed after the first round of burst. “L2P” is the only thing warriors and thieves can come up with to justify what a joke your classes are. Broken records.

Yeah, it’s not that your class is overpowered: it’s just that everyone you meet in game is worse than you are. Truly.

Cyhann.2609:

Maderas.9741:

All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react.

And that’s your problem, in a game like this 3 seconds are much, also the average
reaction time is about 0.5 seconds while the best achieve something about 0,18
seconds. So basically you have a big Problem here.

So the solution to not be kitten on instantly by a thief is to keep full endurance 100% of the time and never let your attention focus anywhere else for longer than half a second lest the thief teleport on top of you and pump out 30,000 damage in 2.5~ seconds (through your toughness/vita gear). Sounds perfectly reasonable.

Clumsy.6257:

your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools

You don’t know what generous means, apparently. And no, you don’t sacrifice all of your escape tools to do it… unless you’re going to tell me stealth isn’t an escape tool now.

Zacchary.6183:

Its fine if you don’t want to but that leaves your statement invalid. You do not have any experience with the thief so your words cannot be quoted, referenced or used to produce valid arguments.

I normally hate to do this, but… lol. I can’t really formulate a more fitting response.

And no class should ever do enough burst to almost instant kill another class running toughness/vitality gear. No other class can except warriors, and we all know how well balanced they are right now.

Maugetarr.6823:

Maderas.9741:

Maugetarr.6823:

Maderas.9741:

Maugetarr.6823:

Maderas.9741:

Ghostwolf.9863:

And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.

This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8

And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.

So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.

1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)

You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.

No, I’m not. But I’ll give you the same advice that we give all the people who come here. Make a thief with the same build. Try to pull this off yourself. It probably was the yski’s build so the link is already there. When tanks hit you back with 3k autos on your 11-14k healthpool you’ll see it can be countered with a dodge and autos. If you want to really have fun, throw in an immobilize and watch the thief squirm.

I’m not going to level a thief to 80 and grind out full exotic with ascended trinkets just to prove what’s already plainly visible in that screenshot. As someone else already said, the build isn’t nearly as hilariously broken in sPvP because of the lack of stat bloat.

Stat bloat goes both ways.

I’m inclined to disagree when I’m taking almost 30,000 damage in ~3-4 seconds while running exotics/ascended.

Maugetarr.6823:

Maderas.9741:

Maugetarr.6823:

Maderas.9741:

Ghostwolf.9863:

And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.

This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8

And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.

So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.

1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)

You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.

No, I’m not. But I’ll give you the same advice that we give all the people who come here. Make a thief with the same build. Try to pull this off yourself. It probably was the yski’s build so the link is already there. When tanks hit you back with 3k autos on your 11-14k healthpool you’ll see it can be countered with a dodge and autos. If you want to really have fun, throw in an immobilize and watch the thief squirm.

I’m not going to level a thief to 80 and grind out full exotic with ascended trinkets just to prove what’s already plainly visible in that screenshot. As someone else already said, the build isn’t nearly as hilariously broken in sPvP because of the lack of stat bloat.

Clumsy.6257:

Maderas.9741:

Ghostwolf.9863:

And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.

This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8

And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.

So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.

Clumsy.6257:

you must be confusing pve damage with wvw damage

Go add up the numbers in that screenshot with a calculator. I’ll wait.

You do realize that in this situation you had several (minimum 5) seconds to dodge this damage. and that averages out to around 6k/second, not bad but fairly low for a glass d/d.

You’re being extremely generous with that estimate, there. You’re also assuming all PvP takes place in a vacuum where everyone has full endurance and can afford to focus one particular person out of a group in order to time dodges perfectly to avoid being instagibbed.

So again, I ask – why is it fair that thieves can kitten near instakill somebody running full toughness/vita gear?

Maugetarr.6823:

Maderas.9741:

Ghostwolf.9863:

And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.

This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8

And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.

So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.

1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)

You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.

Ghostwolf.9863:

And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.

This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8

And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.

So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.

Clumsy.6257:

you must be confusing pve damage with wvw damage

Go add up the numbers in that screenshot with a calculator. I’ll wait.

Clumsy.6257:

2. D/p sacrifices somewhere close to 1/3 our damage (haven’t tested except by paying attention to my Backstab hits) to have the traits for perma-stealth.

So instead of doing close to 30,000 damage in the span of a few seconds, you’d do 20,000?

infantrydiv.1620:

First of all, he was running D/D. Second of all, he wasn’t stealthed when he engaged with you, or else cloak and dagger wouldn’t have worked). Third, you didn’t have over 3k toughness.

I never said he wasn’t running D/D, that he was stealthed, or that I have over 3k toughness. I’m not sure what your point is. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Maugetarr.6823:

Maderas.9741:

Maugetarr.6823:

Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.

How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.

So now were running around with 3 weapon sets I see. My point was you got hit by 2 cloak and daggers meaning black powder wasn’t even an issue here unless the engagement lasted at least 11 seconds.

Why would he need Blackpowder after he murdered me in two seconds? DP/shortbow is for disengaging. And yes, three weapon sets. It’s not like carrying around multiple weapon sets and switching while out of combat is unusual. It takes one second to open your inventory and right click on another weapon.

Maugetarr.6823:

Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.

How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.

All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react. This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Explain to me why this is allowed. And before you launch into the usual “glass cannon” blanket justification, any DP/shortbow thief worth their weight in salt is pretty much impossible to catch with the stealth spam even in full Berserker’s… so that’s a moot point.

coglin.1867:

Landing hits is very easy. It is much much better then back at release, so I am unclear why your claiming otherwise.

Because the #1 skill still misses ticks and does reduced damage unless your target is in the middle of your screen, and the napalm skill requires you to manually trigger the explosion which is a pain you’re being spammed with particle effects during large fights.

I’ve seen warriors die in WvW when outnumbered 10v1. Clearly this is an oversight on Arenanet’s part, and should be addressed post haste.

Warrior. As said, they’re far easier than and superior to every other class in the game right now. Disregard all the warrior posters trying to add depth that isn’t there.

I keep seeing more and more people using FT builds, and I don’t understand why. They seem blatantly inferior to other might stacking builds, not to mention landing hits with it is just as finnicky and awful as it was at launch. Am I missing something here, or is it just the usual hangers-on who keep hoping the kit will become worthwhile?

Out of curiosity, are there any servers that have downed him since the WvW season started? TC has killed him after every reset for weeks now, but failed the last two days due to a lack of participation.

PvE
1: Condition damage. Other people have outlined the reasons. Not being viable in half of the game’s content is a downer.
2: Crafting, and the new gear prefixes. Some builds have no reason to go for Ascended right now because their desired prefix isn’t craftable (Giver’s Weapons, Dire armor, etc.)
3: The personal story and Elder Dragons. I think a lot of us were hoping for a continuation of it, but with Arenanet’s statements about wanting to stay away from traditional expansion packs and stick with the Living World content releases I’m worried we’re not ever going to see the Elder Dragon story continued in a proper fashion.

PvP
1: Diminishing returns on CC. Even with stability the low cooldown knockdown/launch/stun/fear spam is hellacious and turns the PvP experience into a miserable one.
2: Proper Guild vs. Guild. This was a very enjoyable aspect of GW1, and I was honestly shocked when I found out you weren’t including it in GW2. It would also free up slots in WvW by giving the “GvG” people an appropriate place to do so.
3: More developer activity in the class forums. It would be nice to see more developer input and reasoning behind some of the class changes and/or perceived imbalances between classes.

Is it possible to repeat the fight after beating it? I don’t want to complete it if it’s going to lock me out of getting the achievements.

I don’t understand why they’re so afraid of certain areas becoming abandoned. I see people complain about it on these forums, too, but that’s the way every online game is – people outlevel zones, or in GW2’s case, people get bored of doing the same thing over and over. That’s a bad reason to avoid adding new areas to the game.

I’m very disappointed Arenanet has said they want to avoid proper expansions and instead stick to this two week “Living World” update nonsense. I’d hoped we’d eventually continue the personal story and defeat all of the other Elder Dragons, and as is now I can’t help but feel it’s going to be very underwhelming if they use “Living World” releases to do it.