Showing Posts For MercilessLemurs.7459:
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Well, just because a necro has pretty much no good escape mechanics doesn’t mean it’s a weak class. They have a myriad of very viable builds and are imo one of the strongest classes, even stronger with a group.
I’m saying that in this thread we are discussing which classes have the highest capability for escaping. When people answer with generalized answers, as most have, one should not scrutinize the responders, rather the creator of the thread.
And yes, made a generalization about swiftness in WvW.
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Hambow often runs signet of rage. Warriors easy access to swiftness from build to build is undeniable.
Often does not mean always.
As well, access to swiftness means little in my opinion. Access to swiftness, particularly in WvW, is vast. In my experience, movement skills are more defining for mobility.
Access to swiftness in WvW is certain scenarious is vast. You sir just made a generalization. Also, swiftness is a huge boost to mobility and does not mean little.
And hambow really isn’t meta, but that’s a discussion for the warrior forum.
Hambow often runs signet of rage. Warriors easy access to swiftness from build to build is undeniable.
Yes, admittedly, when it comes to actually balancing and solving issues specific skills and traits need to be taken into account. But, saying that warriors are generally fast doesn’t make someone too general or wrong, it’s simply a statement to the current popular state of the game.
No. I didn’t miss your point. I am simply disagreeing with it. I do not think anything warrants generalization of any profession as a whole, unless it direct relates to the professional mechanic (F key skills) of that profession. Other wise I feel the conversation is counter productive. Similar to when players feel a build of a profession is OP. Warriors for example were never OP in the slightest. Specific builds were. Specific traits combined with gear combined with weapons skills, combined with utilities in a specific combination were the problem, not the profession. The mind set your attempting to promote is very much part of the problem that prevents honest and productive discussion and promotes irrational class bias, which prevents the uninformed from learning the real issue, and understanding the profession is a good one (they all are) but that a very specific build combination is the problem.
As a was stated earlier. No profession can out run any other. Only certain professions using certain weapons skills and/or certain utility and/or certain traits. That is a very provable fact. If you disagree, hop on a profession with no weapons, traits purchased, or utilities armed, and race any other profession with weapons armed, traits purchased, and utilities set. The ones with those set that have mobility will win every time. Claiming a profession is something, as a whole, when the fact is that only a certain build can fit that criteria, is unreasonably bias.
Fact is lots of players of the same class run similar if not the same builds. These popular builds allow for the general discussion of a class. For example, almost every warrior I encounter in WvW has one of the following if not all, a warhorn, a gs, or a 1h sword. Obviously, all of these weapons promote speed. In addition, near all roaming WvW warriors run signet of rage. Because of how common these things are, I can say that warriors are fast.
Also, not that it is relevant, and you clearly don’t care about relevancy anyway since you started your little warrior qq sesh, but a thief would win with no weapons or skills vs all other classes. He can use his steal to teleport from mob to mob.
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I didn’t know this thread was pointing out a problem, the thread is just trying to determine which classes can escape the best.
Personally, the fact that so many place warriors at number one or two is very much a pointed out problem if you as me. If there is no balance issue to discuss, shouldn’t it be removed to an appropriate forums?
You missed the point of what I was saying. I was just saying that the discussion does warrant generalization. In addition, this warrior discussion was a result of the original conversation, not the goal of the original conversation. And which class can escape the best is a profession balance question regardless, and should not be moved to another forum.
Also, there is always going to be classes that are consistently at the top of the list, not that I disagree with you in this instance, but just because a class is better at one thing than others does not mean it needs balance. If someone were to ask “whats the best AoE condition class for wvw?” and everyone said “necro” this would not be a “problem”.
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I just noticed that no one included the healing by unholy sanctuary, it’s about 130 HP per second. Take that for what you will, the way I see it, I think my death shroud lasts about 20 sec while taking heat in the average wvw fight, so it’s only about a 2.5k heal.
They should just make unholy sanctuary more accessible. Lower it in the trait line to the adept or master. DS is only super strong if traited for it, so non ds builds would still not get full benefit from the trait, but it also wouldn’t make ds damage builds op because players would need to sacrifice damage. Despite the sacrifice, I could definitely see a lot of players consider using it.
I didn’t know this thread was pointing out a problem, the thread is just trying to determine which classes can escape the best. For which, it makes sense to speak generally, as we are talking about a classes performance in most instances, not extremes.
Yes, but some classes which hypothetically have great mobility don’t run those skills because they are not worth the sacrifice. For example, Guardians are generally slow as their best option for stacking swiftness is staff which requires you to sit in a field. Yes, they could have near perma swiftness if they used retreat, but that shout sucks. SO, in some cases generalization is reasonable.
Another example is necros which is usually at the bottom of the list. Yes, they could use speed signet, but it’s a bad skill, so they don’t usually. Thus, one can generalize that necros are slow, as generally, necros are slow.
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I think the list is not nearly as relevant as builds are. If your running a mobility build, your mor likely to get away, if your not, then you won’t.
For example, there is no way in the world a hambow warrior gets away from me. A sword/warhorn + greatsword warrior on the other hand will get away.
Well, some classes don’t have very viable mobility builds, and some classes mechanics make escaping easier.
1.Warrior
2.Engi
3.Thief
4.Ele
5.Ranger
6.Mesmer
7.Guardian
8.NecroWhy the thief is under warrior and engi?
Thieves are very fast on short distance, but their skills have higher CD’s or are too expensive for far distance.
For long distance have engis and warriors better skills/traits, many movementskills, which make them faster as thieves, incl. their CC-skills.I was under the impression he was asking which classes could escape the best. Not necessarily have the fastest ground speed? Thus why Thieves are #1.
That’s exactly what I wrote.
I see you have never fighted against Warriors or Engineers, which builds are build around mobility.
How can a thief escape, if these two classes move much faster with their skills and traits as the thief regain initiative for his movementskills like IA?
I know that thieves can port 4000 units in few secs, but these range need many ressources and skills with high CD’s, warriors and engis skills aren’t so strong but reload faster and in the end they are faster and over long disctance they run every other class away.
But also the deffense is important. Speed is usless, if you cant go away from the battlefield and get one CCskill after another or heavy conditionspikes, thieves have big disadvantages against these two cases.
Condi clear in invis, shadowstep, and invis itself help a thief combat getting ccd and condi spiked. But, then again, this is really one build I’m talking about, though a lot of thieves run it (0 30 30 10 0).
And add some medium armors that are just tops, not coats!
Zerk guards when played well mess kids up. You probably just ran into a bad one or your warrior wasn’t played to its fullest potential.
Exactly rym. That being said, an invis fleet of shadow thief is also super fast in battle.
Weakness on symbols would be crazy broken. Think about the hammer auto attack chain, it would basically dish out perma aoe weakness unless there was a cooldown. That coupled with perma protection = way to tanky.
Staff aa does good damage with a power build.
Necros do way more damage, that’s why. They are a class that has a different balance then guardians (whom I think you are referring to).
Dancing monkey said it right. Cc skills, especially on warrior, are easy to dodge. And, you shouldn’t be able to avoid all cc of a cc build.
Necros gain a lot of survivability from remaining on the offensive and attacking, that’s a fact.
@sheppy HP gives wiggle room when you get stun locked. And yes, warriors do have that, but look at other classes. Guards have lots of stability but low HP. Eles have lots of escapes but low HP. Ranger has mid HP and some stability. Mesmers, mid HP but with lots of escapes, at the cost of no movement speed. Engineer, mid HP and has escapes. If you look at these classes, the necro seems pretty ok now doesn’kitten
30 to 50% damage? Umm, that isn’t what those runes do @@
Don’t crucify coglin. He makes a good point, warriors and thieves shouldn’t be the standards, since everyone agrees they need nerfs. We should compare to elementalists and guardians in my opinion.
Just checked, you are correct. However, someone said it wasn’t an instant stun breaker, it is. And, as far as I can tell, what the majority of people in this thread want is a stun breaker.
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I’ve seen well of power used well in Wvw to help against cc bombs. Pvp is a different story.
Cripple and chill effect the range on gap closers. Hard ranged cc it does not help against, but, few classes have an abundance of that.
On some gap closers, Cripple and Chill work. Mesmers, Guardians, Thieves, and Eles rarely use gap closers that are affected. Mesmers don’t even have any.
Yes, but the main hard cc out putter to worry about is warrior. Which it does affect.
The only time I see ranged hard cc being a problem is on staff ele, but those are usually encountered in wvw, and in wvw aoe stability is the guardians job.
Cripple and chill effect the range on gap closers. Hard ranged cc it does not help against, but, few classes have an abundance of that.
First of all, I’m no meta whiner. I have every class at 80 and love to play them all. Warriors are op, and if you want to cry about it, you are on the wrong thread. Secondly, necros are very strong. I stand by that. Other classes are slow too, deal with it. You have soft cc (cripple chill) to make up for it.
You do, you just don’t want to run certain traits and skills.
Hard cc is the only effective weapon against necros. They have insane condi clear [and even transfer condis to you], lots of HP and toughness in most builds, and even do good if not great damage.
Necros easily get enough HP not to need more stability. And honestly, this post boils down to you not liking the strengths and weaknesses of necros. Play guard if you need more stability.
And there is a well for power builds that grants stability and I think breaks stun too.
In addition, with condi builds they are doing damage while stunned or Cc’d.
They are tanky while performing activities. Life siphon, deaths shroud etc.
I think they are tanky enough as is.
Obviously, the meta for power builds now is strength runes, and the meta for tanks is melandru runes. But, there is a nice little 6g total rune set that people are looking over, Hoelbrak runes. These runes are great. All of the might duration of strength runes with minus 2o% condi duration, that’s a bit OP. I have come to love these runes. I was wondering, what possibilities you guys see these runes open up for hybrid(tank/damage) builds for different classes?
Warrior is pretty good for new players in Wvw and pve.
Unlike some classes, all of the thief’s weapon sets are useful at something. D/d is pretty balanced as is. Certain sets are just better at certain things. And that’s ok in my book.
P/d is superior for dueling when it comes to thief condi builds. However for group play d/d condi is better bc of death blossom.
6 0 6 0 2 condi venom builds OP. With double dagger you have do many evades it’s not even funny.
I was pleased to see all of the guardians doing well. The guard forum has been totally cluttered by invalid complaints lately.
Turrets in my opinion are best used for soft cc and their blast finishers. Very good in pvp. And no, I think everyone agrees engies rock all aspects of this game.
Melandru runes and food can effectively totally defeat condition damage in wvw. Pvp needs a better way to reduce duration tho.
I run knights armor, cav accessories. I think cav weapons. 30 10 0 0 30. It has higher just about everything than your builds. Also, run Lich form. There is a nasty trick you can do where you pop your Wells than jump into Lich form to boost power, in turn, boosting well damage.
I really wish I could see your trait abilities. However, at a glance, it definitely is not meeting its full potential. To put it in perspective, my 0 0 30 30 10 has more of every stat than your build does other than vitality.
It will affect the protection from pulse, but not symbol duration.
I use zealots armor and weapons in wvw. I used to run 0 0 10 30 30 cleric armor wep, soldier trinkets. I got tired of hitting like a wet pillow. I replaced my armor and weapons with zealots and switched to 0 0 30 30 10 to make up for toughness lost. With bloodlust, food, and guard stacks, my autos on hammer hit for 2 crit and my mighty blow hits for 3 to 6 k depending on en enemy toughness
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