Showing Posts For Mirar.1087:
You sir, are a moron, and clearly have a severe inability to read.
Here’s some “solid facts” for you, if theres a boss with 25 stacks on bleed on it already, and I cast a single spell that puts a bleed on it, NOTHING happens, I get NO bleed dmg popups, and I do NO dmg from that spellNow let me do some simple math with small numbers
0 x any amount of condition dmg I may have = lets see here ZERO
Ouch : \
Okay accurate reader, I specifically stated “At least there’s some science in how this conclusion was reached… The point is, we don’t understand enough.” I did not claim at ANY point that the investigation I quoted is definitely the true underlying mechanics. I simply don’t want people being mislead by poor conclusions like yours. So I gave an example of how someone could easily argue the opposite and suggest that the 25 stack cap COULD be actually beneficial.
My stance is, stop it with the misleading conclusions, and wait for ANET to provide the actual mechanics, or until some stronger investigations are conducted.
Though I must ask… You really think that “NOTHING happens, I get NO bleed dmg popups, and I do NO dmg from that spell”? Are you that convinced that bleed spells become nullified when the 25cap is hit? I find it hard to believe that ANET is that stupid to render bleeding useless in so many situations.
+1 for experience and reasonable statements
Engi! I’m coming soon! >.<
Amazing… Right after I said people “jump to conclusions,” another fool comes and states with certainty:
As long as the cap is 25 in PVE, condition builds will always have extremely poor DPS compared to power builds on champion fights.
Until you have some solid facts, please stop embarrassing yourself.
Here is an investigation from someone else:
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“Stacks doesn’t increase the tick damage.It increases the speed of damage ticks. When there is 5 different people with bleeding attacks and a boss with 25 stacks of bleeding debuff it means that every bleeding debuff applied by people will tick at 25 stack speed.
MULTIPLE CONDITION DAMAGE CHARACTERS BUFF EACH OTHER.Faster stack to 25 and keeping it at that for longer means that each and every one of the bleed attack caused by everyone else will tick at 25 speed.
If everyone had their own bleed stack it would actually reduce the overall damage for everyone as people keeping their bleeds at 25 stack all the time will be very limited if not impossible.
I’m gonna do a little math here with some basic numbers.
Lets say 25 stack bleed = 5 ticks per second so 5 stack is 1 tick per second.
Bleed damage right now with 1 stack of 25 for everyone.5 Characters with 10 – 20 – 30 – 40 – 50 damage per tick
In 10 seconds Damage would be
[(105)(205)(305)(405)(505)10] = 7500 damage
If you want everyone to have their own stacks
Player with 50 damage can keep 25 bleed stacks for himself all the time
Player 2 with 40 damage can keep 20 bleed stacks
Player 3 and 4 can keep their bleed stacks up to 15
Player 5 can keep it up to 10
So 10 second damage is
[(505)(404)(303)(203)(102)10] = 5800 damage
Bleed damage reduced for everyone when you get your own stack.
TL;DR
MORE BLEED STACK = FASTER BLEED TICK RATE
MORE BLEED STACK =/= MORE TICK DAMAGE FOR BLEED "
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At least there’s some science in how this conclusion was reached. “OMG 25 stack cap” is nothing near sufficient for any conclusion. The point is, we don’t understand enough, perhaps bleeding IS actually good with this system…
I’m surprised Shelledfade hasn’t received more warnings or suspension on the forum O.o Such a counterproductive behavior surely deserves some spanking, its been happening on most threads, and one with his flaming comment removed too. Lack of evidence, poor conclusions, accusations and hostility, seems enough to do more harm in the community. Plenty of players waiting to get GW2.
Anyway, yes you can only compare Ele’s elite with our elite. The fiery great sword is a ‘pick up’ weapon, so they do lose their normal skills. Aside from that no real downside, which I do find that aspect slightly stronger, since we do lose our other abilities in albeit fearsome forms.
-Flesh Golem can be technically up permanently, thus if the AI reliably hits, you will probably have a sustained higher DPS than that 180sec CD flaming sword. Not to mention, its knockdown can be devastating when aimed nicely and timed properly. Of course it tanks for you, can eat condition for you, heal you etc… Also it regenerates outside combat. So before you cry about Flesh Golem, take all that into consideration before comparing.
- Plague is kind of an insane AOE tool. Once you reach a threshold of targets, you are doing more damage or apply more conditions than the Fiery great sword. You have to pick carefully what skill to use in that mode, between bleed(good damage), blind and poison (defensive with some damage), cripple and weakness (defensive and support). Although you have extra hp, you do have to be at close range, AND you lose control of all your other abilities which I find slightly unreasonable.
-Lich Form: Probably the closest skill in terms of power in a short duration. Of course it isn’t simply damage like the mage counterpart, but it does have interesting skills. In terms of numbers it might need some buffing, but at this stage, the different roles they entail is quite sufficient. A couple of its skills is AOE, so it takes skills to meet that threshold of targets for maximum potential. It has interesting utility such as the group knockback. Grim Specter ‘5’ is a fast aoe dmg, removes conditions on alies and removes boon on enemies. This is potentially the strongest spell in the Necro arsenal. If used in the right situation it could nullify someone else’s elite or other skills.
Lich form and Plague both take away your control, but I think the utility bar should remain.
SO, by no means are we that far away. Just keep in mind the role we fill is different, aoe takes skill to maximise, and burst damage isn’t everything.
(edited by Mirar.1087)
Great list, although they just don’t work fully.
I just wanted to note:
?Mark of Evasion (leave a mark of blood when dodging) does not benefit from Soul Marks, has an internal cooldown, and only applies 2 bleeds instead of 3.
This is actually.. a COMBO VERSION. Although this skill doesn’t always activate when you dodge (not because staff “2” is up already, both can be up at the same time).
But yes you can combo this with ALL of your fields, its the game-changing trait for me in the necro tree. Adds so much depth in terms of all weapons still being able to combo with, and providing you with a heal + bleed. Positioning wise it is also more demanding, so I believe it is reasonable if you risk yourself to activate combo.
So please let this be intended…
I have no idea what you guys are going on about. I constantly take on 3-4 underwater enemies. The amount of AOE damage we have is ridiculous.
Trident 2 + 3+ 5 + 1(not burst aoe, but still reliable) , Spear 2 + 3 + 4 + 1 (if positioned correctly) + Bone Minion Pops.
All DEAD, and I hardly even sweat.
I personally LOVE underwater combat, I find it such a new and fun combat style for Necromancer.
HOWEVER. I do find it very unreasonable to disable so many skills underwater. Why can’t my flesh golem swim? Why can bone minions swim then? Why are you taking away so many skills, but not giving me something else in return? Why is there only one available elite skill under water?
Why is the design philosophy for water combat to take away so much? I understand that skills like well would be hard to make use of, but there ought to be compensation.
Apart from that, I’m impressed with the water combat system. Love the underwater zones too!
LOL, the number of people here jumping to conclusion and saying that Necro’s are broken based on poor observations is hilarious
Get the facts straight, or leave it until someone confirms anything because you even spout suggestions. Firstly, the only reasonable suggestion here, really, is ASK FOR HOW BLEED WORKS.
I honestly don’t believe ANET would allow for such huge discrepancy in terms of these core mechanics. Bleed + Condition dmg versus Power + burst physical attacks cannot be that far apart. They may differ in damage slightly, but they have different pros and cons that you must learn to make use of.
1. Anet first needs to restore functionality to all the traits so they work as intended.
2. Then comes the number tweaking, so that traits actually MATTER.
3. Then we can consider if they are actually worth it.
4. If they aren’t, we have to discuss the core design issue. I.e. does it fit in with a certain play style. Does it synergize with the entire tree. Is the skill fundamentally flawed. Is there gaps in traits we should actually have…
Yes, pet ai and control interface is in dire need of an upgrade.
They either need a better AI, or allow users more manual control. I prefer to be given the control, as it raises the skill cap of necros.
Unsummon is also a good idea. Both for combat and role playing purposes.
Since we only have F1 occupied, perhaps F2-6 could be for selecting pets so that manual commands could be given.
As others have mentioned the flesh golem’s AI is atrocious, agroing anything I don’t set my eyes on. I can’t tell how many times my bone fiend immobilize skill has failed to apply to the target I need. Either he doesnt even bother to cast it, or it didn’t target what I did, or it chains itself but not the target. The Shadow fiend ability takes slightly too long in terms of casting time/animation.
I agree this is somewhat a poor skill, but for 5 points in a skill tree, it’s not useless.
It does have synergy within the wonky tree, such as each minion providing more toughness and death nova reliably activating every 30sec.
Problems are they often die without even contributing because of poor pet AI system. Or they degenerate too fast in between battles. May prove useless in 1v1 situations.
I think there are a couple of good ideas in this thread so far. Such as those reducing the self-destruction time, or it only degenerates when hit or allowing more Jagged horrors to rise.
My ideas:
- They can spawn from the death of your pets/ally as well
- They apply their own condition on each hit, such as a 10% slow
- They spawn during battle depending on specific skills or when your other pets hit
- When they die, they heal your pets
- They latch onto enemy targets, guaranteeing an attack/condition
Quite an endless stream of ideas really, I could come up with more, but the concept of a expendable pet is great. Just a little bit more!
In general I don’t feel Necro is as bad as most people who point out here. This rather one sided-thread is probably also a poor reflection of how the entire Necro population feels, given that satisfied people don’t often complain on threads.
Most complaints on animations, pet appearance, theme of Necro, style of undeath… All of these are design choices. Your complaints are often poorly built on opinions, nostalgia and comparisons to other classes. However the bottom line on these aspects are that they are aesthetically elements determined by ANET. Perhaps many people have come to embrace the new perspective of Necromancer here, some may hate it, there is no right or wrong.
However, what does matter more is the general functionality of this class. Many skills and traits don’t work as intended, so we can’t even judge if this is what ANET envisaged. I agree that this class is littered with small bugs and problems, and that it needs some attention. But by no means is it the weakest or broken. Once these fixes are made, and their performance are rectified, they will mark their own specialty on the battlefield, and I assume most people will be satisfied.
Of course there will always be flamers and haters though. In time after ANET fixes things, we can properly judge this class, so if you’re that upset, play another class for now or not at all – there is nothing forcing you to stay here.