Guild Wars 2

This is actually the opposite case from what you expected. Rather than waiting for flames and trolling from players who are self-proclaimed experts, you’re feeding into players with a limited scope on the battlegrounds who are practically begging for a mentorship from someone with a clue.

The devs have the metrics, not these players, they’re in no position to know the state of the class and actually argue against what’s been announced. The arguments on guildwars2guru are better than what’s here and paint a different picture as well. Until a warrior chooses to waste their time to educate them for free, which is the goal they seek in starting this diatribe, then they’re stuck pouring time into forum banter because they’ve reached their limit in game.

This isn’t WoW. Paladins and bubbles were OP because they could heal themselves to full. Endure Pain isn’t even a bubble, it doesn’t remove conditions and it still takes damage from them. Different games, different mechanics, and different playstyles.

It’s fine.

100b/shouts are in no way the source of a warrior’s strength… they’re the easiest tools to use. In a class that already ranks a 1 out of 5 in difficulty to play, advocating the builds that require you to faceroll the keyboard to do great isn’t the best way to present an argument. Warriors have lots of builds that are viable, but they require more thinking than keeping your shouts on cooldown.

It already was nerfed. They brought it back because nerfing it made it too UP.

It’s fine.

Head Desk Desk Desk.

Another player trying to go head to head with the strongest melee attacker in the game… and still acting perplexed as to how he lost.

When you challenge a warrior to a duel of who can take the most beatings to the face, the warrior is going to win. Don’t just stand there when he pops Endure Pain. Run away.

This used to common knowledge for people, with Rogue players and hybrids realizing that they needed to control a fight and not simply stand toe-to-toe with knight classes, but for some reason the newer crowds think a ranger should be able to stand face-to-face with a warrior because they both use melee weapons…

Man-at-arms vs Knight in a stabbing contest is not going to end well unless you use your cheat abilities.

The lack of mobility on 100b is not an issue. It never was meant to be a primary source of damage, cast that idea from your mind. What’s the primary damaging power of an axe? The autoattack. The sword? The autoattack. The mace? The autoattack. The hammer? The autoattack. Warriors are autoattackers with some abilities that are situational on their bar. The greatsword’s primary source of damage is likewise the autoattack. They each have burst skills that define their weapon… the greatsword is defined by that short duration crit buff, not that the buff itself is necessarily what’s important, but the idea that the GS is a temporary wonder of a berserker that wears itself out after using up its cooldowns, after which it needs some time to recharge to be back up to full strength. Hundred Blades is like an adrenaline skill in strength, but it would be useless as an actual adrenaline skill because of the miss rate. So they slot it to 2, give it a low cooldown, and now you have a spammable ultimate attack with a high miss chance. So long as you work with your team or plan for its weaknesses, it can be a great ultimate attack when you manage to land it. The difficulty of landing it is what keeps it from having a 40+ second cooldown.

This doesn’t make the attack bad or useless, it just makes the greatsword bar setup different. The super move is in the bar rather than the burst slot and they have a buff in the burst slot instead of the bar.

Henge of Denravi dethroned.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/68790-yaks-bend-crafts-the-dreamer-first-legendary-born/

It’s a shiny rainbow bow.

Shouts Heal is a trait in the SUPPORT line for warriors. It is not meant to be a tanking or self-sufficient build. Shouts Heal is for healing allies, not yourself. It becomes incredibly strong when you are healing more than one person. Trying to build a DPS/self-heal build around it will always fail. However, building DPS with party healing is very viable and makes the warrior a cleric of sorts.

If you’re going to take this approach, maxing out your healing is vital to being a good supporter as the shouts won’t make enough of a difference otherwise. Clerics is an obvious pick here as it keeps you alive to keep the party alive. For DPS, Longbow is your friend. You won’t be personally doing tons of damage, but you’ll be boosting your ally damage by a ton.

If you choose to go more of a DPS route, Banner Regen is better than Shouts Heal. Keep a banner with you and you’ll get permanent decent regen ticks while not taking up your entire hotbar. With this type of build, you can afford to choose from a variety of DPS options.

The description is not vague, your ability to understand it is lacking. Disables are all forms of control in this game stunbreaks remove, so your question has already been answered. Previously Merciless Hammer only worked on knocked down foes, they buffed it to include all forms of hard CC.

Stuns, Knockdowns, Knockbacks, even Daze, anything that disables your character will affect the skill. Roots, snares, chills, other conditions do not.

No, the MMO industry calls diminishing returns “diminishing returns”. Guild Wars 2 does not have diminishing returns, everything scales the same way regardless of how much or little you have. Doubling your Power stat doubles your damage. Doubling your armor value halves your damage taken. Everything scales perfectly with no diminishing values, but naturally there’s going to be a point at which adding more vitality will be more beneficial than Toughness. This is not caused by diminishing returns, which is a practical application by the MMO industry in actively reducing the effectiveness of stat stacking, but a matter of efficient stat selection. Warriors, possessing natural high health, benefit well from Toughness, but their heavy armor makes Vitality and Healing valuable too. Necromancers, possessing light armor and naturally high health, have the greatest efficiency from Toughness of any class.

The only mechanic that limits stat stacking in any way is the 2500 cap on stats. You cannot go beyond 2500 on any major stat.

No they cannot, for the one you refer to is a skill and not at all like the rifle I posted.

I see that when you made this topic clearly asking whether any one else felt the same as you do, you weren’t actually looking for opinions, you were looking for an argument.

Welcome to warriors, they’ve been like this in multiple MMOs. Fundamentals are what define them, their attack rotations tend to be faceroll worthy, not the complex rotation of a Rift Necromancer or WoW Warlock. EverQuest actually had autoattack being a primary form of damage. Warrior types in MOBA games are similar, autoattackers with a few utility powers or burst finishes, much simpler to play than your standard mage and more easily punished by errors.

I do not “tout” fundamentals as a feature of the Warrior class, I stated they were applicable to all. But just as how skill rotations and combos are not a “feature” of the elementalist class, they’re certainly more dependent on them than a class with half as many skills. Playing a warrior, the fundamentals are what’s critical. If this type of playstyle does not appeal to you, or if your fundamentals are shoddy, then a class that approaches combat with more variety will suit you better.

Nothing is trivial with warriors. Condition management applies to conditions on you, and sporting some of the worst condition removal options short of the thief should strike the importance of it. Conditions also hamper your next assignment, positioning. Keeping mobile and avoiding AOEs in your path becomes more and more about the crunch the closer you get to a target, with less time to react and more to avoid. This is not a thief with an limitless supply of endurance, dodge is not the universal answer to positioning for a melee class. Some things you have to eat, others get avoided by -actual- positioning… being out of position is a flaw of bad players in Mobas, and it should be plainly obvious what results from it.

The Fighter analogy is a good one, but for an alternate reason. There are power characters and there are speed characters, fundamentals are important to both, but the speed characters rely more on technique. The technique of power characters is more limited, but the reactive punishment they can inflict makes up for it. You might have mastered fundamentals on a more technique oriented character, but just because you executed that 32 hit combo doesn’t mean you dealt more damage than a hulking brute’s 6-hitter.

Think what you will, but my original post stands. The warrior is less about his spells and more about his tactical sense.

Qbert.4197:

Toughness increases Armor in the same way that Defense from armor items increases Armor …. however the damage/damage-mitigation formula in general remains a mystery.

It’s not a mystery at all. The steady weapons and bunny rabbits getting crit for 450k should have been a dead giveaway how it’s calculated.

Power is a multiplier. Your damage is that many times stronger. Toughness is added to armor to make up the divisor. Your damage taken is that many times less. So if your power and toughness are equal, and your weapon damage is about the same as your class armor, then you’re taking and dealing damage at a 1:1 ratio.

But if you have 3k attack against 2k armor, you’re dealing 50% more damage than if the target had 3k armor. Having only 2k attack vs 3k armor means you’re dealing 33% less damage than if you had 3k attack. The ratios are even, 3/2 vs 2/3.

The problem with those poor little bunny rabbits is that they have no defense, so you’re dealing stupid amounts of damage to them. But the damage is always proportional to your Power.

The same ones I stated in my original post, along with the following posts I made. Positioning, spatial awareness, condition management, tactics (environment). Mobility. All classes use the same elements, but the warrior is most rewarded for mastery over them and most punished by failures. There’s less room for error with a lack of options, and a greater payout for being flawless — our skills just plain hit harder. Timing is critical to warrior play, squandering a skill is not an option while doing so for a class with more skill selection such as an elementalist leaves alternate methods of recovery still open to you. Elementalists spam skills to force an opening, warriors look for openings to exploit. I find the elementalist to be far too easy because of this, while the warrior’s playstyle is much more twitch-oriented, fast-paced, position-based, and timing critical.

Tea Time, your playstyle is proactive. Warriors are reactive. Play another class.

Unfortunately, I’m the one talking to a wall. Skill usage is a single element of PVP skill. Being incapable of understanding that there’s more to the game than that will be your downfall. Warriors are rewarded greatly for mastery over the other aspects of PVP, possessing some of the strongest and most class defining skills of any class. I encourage you to roll a different class if you feel this one is lacking, but will not consent to the notion that it is indeed deficient. The warrior does not suit your playstyle.

EasymodeX.4062:

You can run away with GS in PvE too kittenmit!

Also #2 weapon set for getting from point A to point B, which is more important!

With the root/cripple removal and lack of swiftness on mobs, warhorn does that quite well.

You heard it here first… GS is awesome because it’s good for RETREATING.

Topic title is related to PVE. If you see 48 mobs coming towards you in PVE, no weapon is going to save you.

Tea Time.3980:

You can’t say that Warrior requires a perfectionist’s touch when there is very little difference between a skilled player and an amateur using a warrior. This is entirely due to the lack of options and required input from the player.

I can actually because while I feel you’re too focused on Skill usage and combo execution, I mastered DAOC and know the value of positioning and tactics. If you look at a combat log between a skilled player and an amateur, they are likely hitting the same buttons. But when one warrior ends the fight with more health than the other, it’s because of a different kind of skill… one I don’t think you’re fully aware of.

If the class is lacking for you, by all means switch to a more skill spammy one. But personally, the class feels just right where it’s at. There really wasn’t much skill variation in WAR, WoW, or AoC… but we still found ways to compare skill levels. There’s a deeper metagame for strong melee classes than simply what skill you use and when.

Offensive warriors are effective. They’re more effective when you have allies doing the resilience and unstoppability for you. You can either spec tank and try and do everything yourself… or you can spec DPS and let your guardian friend root the enemy with his scepter so you can bash his face in while getting protection and heals.

Look at it this way…. when two armies collide, it’s not the archers in the back that die first. Melee is great, but it’s also a bit suicidal. Get LOTS of melee and things change. But you need enough melee to rival the number of ranged guys, which rarely happens because everyone in a zerg is a coward.

Tea Time.3980:

There is no twitch though. Everything about the class is so slow and uninvolved that every decision is essentially made for you.

Warrior just isn’t a fun class to play if you actually like having to think. Which is very discouraging because I love the theme of a Warrior.

There is, actually. The warrior is most rewarded for doing well, and most penalized for being countered. Missing even a single critical dodge will set you back a long way because the options just aren’t there. Everything about the warrior is stacked with offense, leaving few true options for avoidance beyond that simple twitch. Making the right decision is more important than doing so on an elementalist because there’s room for error on the elementalist. If you like to think, the elementalist will suit you, it’s a class requiring quite a bit of that. But if you like to react, if the only thoughts going through your mind are “Sprint, Dodge, Kill”, then the warrior caters to that playstyle.

It’s a definite playstyle, just one that isn’t going to be compatible with someone like you. It requires a perfectionist’s touch, the realization that any mistakes will result in death, and the drive to continuously perfect your attack-defense timing.

I agree that if you like having to think, another class will suit you better. But honestly, playing an Elementalist is so boring because regardless of how badly I screw up, I feel like I always have an out, always have an option to exploit, always have a cooldown ready.

It’s too easy.

You want Berserker for typical DPS builds. Valkyrie is a set for warriors wielding a hammer or CC build… because 50% crit on stunned targets that stacks with 20% from fury is all the precision you need.

Dreadspectre.3456:

Pffffft…PvE…

Invoke jealousy, check. The exact purpose of wielding a Charrzooka.

I sense the difference between you and I is that while we may both wield Champion Slayer titles, I alone will know the joy of the Charrzooka.

Also – The reason people go 5 signet with the class is because of the Arms trait that increases precision per unused signet. Warriors are so heavily dependent on their autoattacks that boosting them up is always a plus, and even if you stack Power gear with not a hint of precision at low levels, the trait will give you over 116% crit chance by itself. There’s no reason NOT to use a 5 signet build while leveling. At level cap, people just get too used to the playstyle to switch, even though it’s no longer anywhere near as good. It turns the warrior into an autoattacker, which is already what they’re the best at doing.

Tea Time.3980:

That’s not great at all if you’re already capable of doing those things while actually playing the game.

The difference is that warriors have higher numbers than everyone else. So if you can manage these things despite the weaknesses of the class, the reward is immense. It focuses less on comboes, less on having an answer to everything, and more on simple twitch.

Tea Time.3980:

It’s not really about being flashy. That’s not what I rolled a Warrior for either. It’s about how little execution and button pressing is actually involved with the class. It’s very auto-pilot to the point that you can play it following a flowchart. It just isn’t very fun and there isn’t many options available as a Warrior.

That’s actually the great thing about the class, its manual simplicity. Leaves you more processing power to focus on positioning, condition management, and spatial awareness. Warriors spend less time mashing buttons and more time playing pressure games. It might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but most FPS games have very few attack options, mostly related to positioning and weapon choice, and they’re widely loved for that. The warrior is less about his spells and more about his tactical sense.

Lies. It’s a WvW wall killer. Frenzy + Rifle = Dead meteor shower spammer.

Thief has better evasion while the warrior has better sustained damage. Thief runs out of initiative, the warrior never gets tired.

Rifle shots seem unable to hit certain targets like the plants in Twilight Arbor, or other types of structures. Arcing attacks like longbow shots or axe 3 work on them, so it seems to have something to do with the direct line of fire Rifle does. The message comes up as “Obstructed” quite often, almost like the rifle is attempting to shoot the ground instead of the object.

Axe/Warhorn has the Warhorn 5 ability, which doubles endurance regeneration. Axe users can effectively roll three times while AOE inflicting Weakness for even more survival. Warhorn breaking ALL forms of movement reduction also means less CC which means less getting hit by combos.

You want unstoppable? A team of hammer warriors with Stomp, Fear Me, and Endure Pain. That’s unstoppable.

Besides one of these?

Aseyhe.2948:

The real advantage to greatsword is survivability (#3), mobility (#3 and #5), and AoE control (#4). I don’t use it for the damage.

Don’t forget that you just compared a 3-slot main hand to a 5-slot two-hander. Add whatever offhand you feel completes the Axe and it more than makes up the difference.

Many valid points have been brought up, but I pose you this question…

… can rangers rock the Charrzooka?

Baiting dodges went out the window when they changed abilities to go on full cooldown if you cancel them. People were abusing partial benefit abilities for shorter cooldowns, so now a cancellation with any benefit is as good as a full loss. For any skilled player looking for a certain attack to dodge, that attack alone is going to be effective bait. Cancel it at your own risk.

Best present bait… Hundred Blades, cancel, swap, Eviscerate. Even if both get dodged, congrats, you can now autoattack them to death with Axe.

If you’re playing tank, a good longbow will definitely be better than a rifle. Your group will love the might buffs and burning.

Warriors were balanced around the concepts of few conditions, few boons, total offense, and big numbers everywhere (armor, health, damage, crit). To have such a class and still be balanced, it needs to be counterable. Warriors are very simple and straightforward, it’s going to cap the skill involved more easily. If you want to go above and beyond, play a more complicated class that has more options available and less of the high numbers.

Axe mainhand -DESTROYS- Greatsword. Mobility + Damage, 3000 damage autoattack crits, you will never go back to Greatsword once you go Axe.

Vulnerability? Axe stacks 5 vulnerability on a single attack.
Cripple? Axe 3 >>> Greatsword 4.
Burst? Meet Eviscerate.

And don’t forget the offhand. Whether you want knockdowns, defenses, more mobility, bleeds, or just crazy AOE damage, you can equip it all and maintain the flexibility of choice.

Axe Warrior is best Warrior.

Nothing at all makes it OP. It’s fairly similar to other condition removal specs already. Elementalists and Guardians specced for healing/removal are virtually immune to conditions and supply great amounts of regeneration and protection. Warrior is similar, just with burst heals and condi removal. Unlike the other two, it also eats up all your utility slots, so you’re playing a spec that doesn’t really gain a benefit from a certain weapon type. The shouts range nerf to 600 makes it so you have to be groping the warrior to receive the benefit.

DreadShinobi.4751:

1) You don’t mention that this attack is a Cleave. Being able to hit multiple mobs is something that not all warrior 1 skills can do.

Actually, this is a property of all the warrior’s melee weapons. Axe, Sword, Hammer, Greatsword, Mace, they can all cleave on attack. The only ones that can’t are the single target ranged weapons. The cleaving action makes the Axe the most powerful warrior DPS weapon, with an autoattack that crits for 2500-3000 per swing.

DreadShinobi.4751:

2) I hear this so much. Hundred Blades does NOT immobilize you. If you move it cancels the the channel, but it does not prevent you from moving, you are completely free to move out of the way if theres an attack you need to avoid headed your way. Warriors that refuse to cancel their 100 blades are bad. Optimally you will be able to finish your channel (especially because the last hit hits the hardest), but don’t feel like you have to if it means living to use the skill again, the cd isn’t that long, especially if traited.

Cancelling Hundred Blades severely lowers its DPS because as you said the final hit is the most powerful and consumes a good chunk of the overall DPS. Cancelling may be a necessity, but guts the strength of the attack if you must do so, which is quite often in standard pvp, further increasing the gap between Hundred Blades and similar burst attacks (Axe autoattack + Eviscerate is a much better combo with high mobility). Hundred Blades does indeed keep a warrior immobilized, if for no other reason than its optimal usage involves the enemy being immobilized. Even if you and your target are both standing still and HB is connecting, you’re now getting shot full on by every attack his teammates throw your way. Countering a GS warrior is as simple as baiting Hundred Blades, then punishing him for it, yet far too many people refer to it as the Be All, End All attack by which all DPS must be measured.

DreadShinobi.4751:

3) The whirlwind attack (imo) is in about the same place as hundred blades, ie: a very powerful attack with drawbacks.

The complaint issued was that it was pertaining to the drawbacks. The entire greatsword line has drawbacks. The autoattack does moderate damage while inflicting vulnerability, a potentially decent tradeoff, but an innate drawback for a DPS weapon. Hundred Blades does high burst damage so long as the warrior stays rooted, again a decent tradeoff but an innate drawback. Whirlwind is described above as having an innate drawback. The cripple duration and dps on Bladetrail is inferior to other attacks of the same cooldown unless both the outgoing and return trip connect, again a potentially good combination with an innate drawback. The delay between rush, the hit, and the acceleration all create a strong gap closer with innate drawbacks. Need I even mention the drawback to a burst finisher that supplies Fury to a warrior?

The Greatsword… a powerful weapon, innately affected by drawbacks.