Guild Wars 2

meow one twenty.4376:

No Man.4180:

no not all mobile builds/classes have blink or teleport.

Well, Mesmers/Eles/Thieves have blinks. Rangers/Warriors/Engineers have leaps that ignore Chill, so I didn’t include them. Guardians aren’t mobile so they don’t count. Oh, and Revs are Revs.

leaps “ignore” chill? maybe help dodge the skill but no they don’t just ignore any condi.
im not too sure on teleports though from what i read Mesmer teleports do not remove conditions, nor does the thiefs teleport removes conditions nor too the ele teleport.
i mean they might also help dodge/evade the chill skill but they dont ignore any condi.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No Man.4180:

Eles can be difficult but no, non HOT ranger thief and eng are pretty easy to beat.
also two chills on GS, suffer shout, spectral grasp, chilled to the bone, chilling wind, Chilblains, and dark path give a total of 8 possible active chill effects; coupled with the chill passives chilling nova, chilling death, cold shoulder and deathly chill makes any set of those pretty awesome when im slapping people around in reaper.
just seems that i really only have issues with other HOT builds.
everyone else is pretty easy to beat down.

Chilling Wind and Chilled to the Bone are mutually exclusive, as Chilling Wind is a Lich Form skill. Dark Path is mutually exclusive to Reaper in its entirety.

i said 8 possible*… considering we can only have 1 heal 3 skills and 1 elite…. its was assumed that the skills used were by preference.

no not all mobile builds/classes have blink or teleport.

Eles can be difficult but no, non HOT ranger thief and eng are pretty easy to beat.
also two chills on GS, suffer shout, spectral grasp, chilled to the bone, chilling wind, Chilblains, and dark path give a total of 8 possible active chill effects; coupled with the chill passives chilling nova, chilling death, cold shoulder and deathly chill makes any set of those pretty awesome when im slapping people around in reaper.
just seems that i really only have issues with other HOT builds.
everyone else is pretty easy to beat down.

meow one twenty.4376:

No Man.4180:

so any ways, not only chill damage coupled with CC immensities, but there is also the Life force health bar separated from their main health bar. all three make any squishy think twice about even bothering to engage a class designed to sell HOT.

So what do you think Chill does to enhance Stability? I’m curious what connection there is.

Reaper Stability comes from two things, Chilled to the Bone and Reaper Shroud 3. If they are in Shroud you shouldn’t be near the Reaper due to all of their attacks being powerful upclose (and non-existent at range), and CttB is a 90 second cooldown Elite. Every other Stability is just designed to get the Necro back upright.

I agree with NeXeD, limit CC’s/Stability/whatever on classes that have access to Chill and it wouldn’t bother most of us. I’ve been a punching bag for long enough, it’ll be nice for everyone to be down to my level.

so chill stacks coupled with me life force and my CC immunities makes it very difficult for my targets to escape.

if they’re a speed build? chill slowed; CC build? stability; DPS build? tanked.
the only real counters come from the other HOT builds, I’m not bothered by any classic build for the most part unless I’m very out numbered.

Cogbyrn.7283:

GS #1’s third auto hit is perhaps the most unreliable method Reapers have to apply chill. Go try it in PvP, and let me know how she rides.

@glaphen: Apparently, it is 33% damage out of the most damaging condition in a fight against a Chill-specced Necromancer, according to meow. So that seems pretty good to me, if the argument is that it is doing that much damage.

Also, another question: shouldn’t a meta have some build that destabilizes the norm in order to make people think/adapt? If everyone is comfortable with their builds that basically accommodate the rest of the meta, isn’t there a need for something that can come in and cause some consternation? This is more balance a la MOBA, like DOTA 2, where the meta often includes picks that are strong, then other picks that are designed within the meta to create problems for the strong picks.

In that sense, if people start stacking chill/chillmancers, then the answer to that in the meta is teamfighting condi clears, personal condi clears, and perhaps traiting against it. Then how effective would it be? They would probably have to shift off of stacking, and it would simply be an option to help apply pressure at a certain weakness in another team comp.

It’s possible that the damage on Deahtly Chill needs to be fixed, sure. Otherwise, I’m curious how much you feel you should be able to be chilled in a fight, barring all of the potential ways to remove/dodge it.

your point is strong cant really argue most of it except to state that its not just team fights and not just 1v1 fights. its both sides.
yes in a team fight ill most likely clear the chills
1v1 i can dodge some and clear some but not all the chills all the time. this coupled with the CC immunities makes my reaper just difficult to deal with in a team or solo.

its interesting to note that it seems only HOT builds can counter one another leaving the original sets vulnerable.

my original claim was about chill and its effects.
my claim has always been around chill and its effects with reaper. pointing out fallacious logic was only a side note.

there are also points of contention with thief daredevil lotus training coupled with the imitative Regen and Mesmer stealth not being broken by clone skills and chrono condi stacking is nasty but these are points for a different post.

but its not just chill and its not just life force (your point is true not arguing that) and the CC immensities in combination that seems to have the community irritated. no one stating that the class should be nerfed or that it should be fundamentally changed. i’m interested the synergy of all three capabilities that is a point of concern.

i love playing reaper… but its pretty one hit wonder. only Daredevil and very tanky/mass healing classes that stand a chance against it. that’s when skill matter’s…
the original skill sets though? no i don’t need to use tactics or strategy to win. i just stand on top and spam my chills.

zapv.8051:

No Man.4180:

Warscythes.9307:

You know mate, I don’t usually like to get into arguments but please stop using words like ad hominem and straw-man.

ad hominem is a logical fallacy where the person arguing attacks the person directly which he never did. He refuted your reasoning and did not mention anything personal about you.

straw man on the other hand is a fallacy where the person misrepresents a person’s position in order to make an easier argument which if you look back at Sigmond’s post, he never really did. You made the point that reapers cause chills and poison passively in your original post. He pointed out that is not exactly the case and gave several examples of common ways for Reaper to apply chill. This is not a straw man fallacy.

Please stop using these words just because you can, it’s not helping your case.

“Do everyone a favor and either learn the game " that is ad hominem. =/

but that’s not the point of this post. we’re discussing OP stating to “delete reaper” which i disagreed with and tried to explore the point of contention.

People really don’t know what ad hominem is. It is only ad hominem if you don’t make any real claims against someones argument and insult them as your argument. If you address someones points and also attack their background, experience, etc that is not ad hominem.

Ad hominem is the difference between:
“you’re an idiot”
and
“you’re an idiot because”

I’m not sure how that impacts the current point of Chill effects.

stop derailing.

so any ways, not only chill damage coupled with CC immensities, but there is also the Life force health bar separated from their main health bar. all three make any squishy think twice about even bothering to engage a class designed to sell HOT.

Reapers Two handed sword also applies chill on third attack; so avoiding chill altogether can not be maintained unless you’re daredevil and even then only at a cycle of 12 and reaper has two health bars.
But beyond chill there is also the matter of the CC immensities.
i don’t think chill build should stack with a CC immunity as it adds a devastating synergy.

Rogue Potato.4723:

It’s posts like these that is the reason the devs don’t listen to us.

^ yeah i wouldn’t read that post either if i were a dev :P

meow one twenty.4376:

No Man.4180:

Stuff

Hahaha. Like I said, go learn the game a bit and come back. I really would like you to have an actual discussion, maybe you can help my point that Chill damage needs to be nerfed.

And for those curious, I base this off of the culminated damage over the duration of a fight, and not off of damage per tick. A counterargument I’ve heard is that it is necessary to be effective due to how many classes have Chill reduction, but those traits come from Elites, which (imo) leads to a discussion on power creep.

First sentence, really mate? subjective =/
Second sentence YUS! lets discuss chill seriously.

second paragraph yes! the reaper build seems to try and answer movement impairing duration reduction, it just does so in an intrusive manor that mitigates a lot of original skill sets and their subsequent builds. and i totally agree that it leads to power creep.

Warscythes.9307:

My god, I haven’t seen something like this in a while.

@No Man, word of advice when trying to present something on the internet. I don’t know if you just learned these terms or what, but never use them on the internet. It makes you sound like a total neckbeard EVEN IF you are using them correctly, which you are not. Is like trying to use vocabulary in every sentence you write just because you can. Please stop it, is actually pretty obnoxious.

As for the topic, I think we got pretty off the tracks here lol. I am out.

fair point. ill try to filter more.

Zetsumei.4975:

You realise even if it’s a passive trait that lets chill do damage you have to land an active skill to apply the chill in the first place…

Also stop filling your post with pointless rambling about straw man and ad hominem, man up and present your point. Stop hiding behind fancy terms if you have an opinion with any valid substance behind it.

so i see your point and would offer the prior posts misrepresent the issue of OP stating to delete reaper, where as i was trying to identify the point of contention which is the passive that adds damage to chill and the LOS chill skills. trying to offer a solution into making them skill shots (of all i think only two could be considered skill shots).

Warscythes.9307:

You know mate, I don’t usually like to get into arguments but please stop using words like ad hominem and straw-man.

ad hominem is a logical fallacy where the person arguing attacks the person directly which he never did. He refuted your reasoning and did not mention anything personal about you.

straw man on the other hand is a fallacy where the person misrepresents a person’s position in order to make an easier argument which if you look back at Sigmond’s post, he never really did. You made the point that reapers cause chills and poison passively in your original post. He pointed out that is not exactly the case and gave several examples of common ways for Reaper to apply chill. This is not a straw man fallacy.

Please stop using these words just because you can, it’s not helping your case.

“Do everyone a favor and either learn the game " that is ad hominem. =/

but that’s not the point of this post. we’re discussing OP stating to “delete reaper” which i disagreed with and tried to explore the point of contention.

Kotte.2460:

Regardless of who said it, its not logic, but since we are asking to delete classes, can all classes be deleted except thief, that way they would be more viable.

non sequitur response.

we’re talking about reaper then moved to chill now talking about the passives affecting chill.

also i don’t think any class should be deleted and whole heatedly disagree with you and the OP about deleting anything.

choovanski.5462:

No Man.4180:

choovanski.5462:

smh. engineer is still very strong without scrapper. your play brings shame to our community. please L2P for all of our sakes.

run HGH, I believe in you.

Ad hominan attack, instead of using logical counter points it just “l2p” you know what mate? LEARN TO CONTRIBUTE.

were discussing this to make the game better and inferring someone is not a good player isn’t rational nor assisting the discussion.
Its proving that you don’t want to assist you just want to troll.
There are plenty of other forums to troll mate.

dude he’s just walking into the traps.
I’m not gonna make an incomprehensible post about ‘LOS based attacks’, whatever those are? The dude needs to start dodging things and paying a bit more attention. that’s his main problem.

So i agreed that OPs tactics were rubbish mate. I’m not arguing that.

Kotte.2460:

so because you can’t adapt to the well needed NECRO fixes, you want it deleted, cause that’s logic

i said deleting reaper wasn’t the answer… like at all… i never said that OP did.

No Man.4180:

Deathly chill, bitter chill, toxic chill, chilling nova, shivers of dread, cold shoulder and chilling darkness all cause chill…. not sure why everyone is using strawman to misconstrue the slew of chill effects available to reaper.

• Deathly chill is the chill damage trait
• Bitter chill causes vulnerability when you cause chill
• Toxic chill….isnt even a thing?
• Chilling nova requires the target already be chilled and you to crit before it will work. Its hardly passive since you need to chill to continue chilling as well as either a trait, stat or sigil investment to crit.
• Shivers of dread means you have to fear your target, again unless you use a rune its all active play since all fear application is from active skills.
• Cold shoulder doesnt cause chill at all..it makes it last longer, again you need to apply chill to see any benefit same as chilling nova.
• Chilling dark means you have to blind someone. Again all blinds come from active skills.

There is no “passive” application. You’re saying that because you can trait something else you do to cause chill the chill is passive but by definition thats not passive at all because you still have to do something to get the chill just more things cause it.

How very confusing. Passive is more like adaptive armour or guardian virtues passive effects, signets, etc etc[/quote]

i never said all of those were passive…. yet ANOTHER straw man to misconstrue what was stated.

i said “they all cause chill” which, you’re right, some of those don’t but rather buff chill.

try to stay off the straw man please. this is a discussion of interest not hate.[/quote]

" The point is that Reapers attacks, shroud and weapon swap cause poison and chill passively. if those were Active skills i wouldn’t mind but they are not.
Its not about skill at that point. "

If these are active skills, then by your own admission, you wouldn’t mind them.

Do everyone a favor and either learn the game or be quiet so actual balance discussions can be done. [/quote]

Another straw-man statement taken out of context of the prior conversations when they were talking about sigil involvement.
my point was that reapers passive adds damage to chill.
further more LOS chill effects doing damage is another point of contention, i stated they should be skill shots (ie Aimed or plotted).

Last point “Do everyone a favor and either learn the game or be quiet so actual balance discussions can be done.” dude gtfo. this is a DISCUSSION FORUM. the whole point of this forum is to do exactly this…discuss… but that is obviously beyond your scope of cognition. do try to participate instead of making contrived statements about someones pliability within the game.
We JUST made a break through targeting chill and the reaper passive adding damage as the major point of contention… that is the intent a balance discussion, identifying the problem. we’ve moved forward.

Try to help not hinder mate.

Sigmoid.7082:

No Man.4180:

Sigmoid.7082:

No Man.4180:

Deathly chill, bitter chill, toxic chill, chilling nova, shivers of dread, cold shoulder and chilling darkness all cause chill…. not sure why everyone is using strawman to misconstrue the slew of chill effects available to reaper.

• Deathly chill is the chill damage trait
• Bitter chill causes vulnerability when you cause chill
• Toxic chill….isnt even a thing?
• Chilling nova requires the target already be chilled and you to crit before it will work. Its hardly passive since you need to chill to continue chilling as well as either a trait, stat or sigil investment to crit.
• Shivers of dread means you have to fear your target, again unless you use a rune its all active play since all fear application is from active skills.
• Cold shoulder doesnt cause chill at all..it makes it last longer, again you need to apply chill to see any benefit same as chilling nova.
• Chilling dark means you have to blind someone. Again all blinds come from active skills.

There is no “passive” application. You’re saying that because you can trait something else you do to cause chill the chill is passive but by definition thats not passive at all because you still have to do something to get the chill just more things cause it.

How very confusing. Passive is more like adaptive armour or guardian virtues passive effects, signets, etc etc

i never said all of those were passive…. yet ANOTHER straw man to misconstrue what was stated.

i said “they all cause chill” which, you’re right, some of those don’t but rather buff chill.

try to stay off the straw man please. this is a discussion of interest not hate.

Again im just pointing out where you are wrong in your argumrnt stating that a) skills cause chill when they dont and b) they are passive when they arent. Your point was they cause it passively, which has been proven wrong, but the more i read your posts its chill you have a problem with. Construct your argument better. i.e chill is strong etc etc.

Again i didn’t say all of them were passive.
still using ad hominem statements and contrived straw-man attacks to misconstrue my arguments. i never said they where all passive. they weren’t proven wrong mate.
stop trying to bully the argument.

as far as your last point i have to agree its chill i have a problem with but its the reapers passive that increases the effectiveness and adds damage to chill which was my ACTUAL point. its cool though man you’re obviously against balance and want to troll.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Naix.8156:

Chill doing damage is possible since the expac:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Chill

Condi cleanse is now RNG. Necro/reaper can apply a lot of condis which actually makes it difficult to get the condi you want cleansed actually removed when you need it.

Not entirely true. Condition to Boon conversion (and boon->condition) is now RNG. Condition cleansing and transfers have been unchanged since launch

And yes, Deathly Chill does let Reapers deal damage with Chill This doesn’t happen in Power builds (they take either Blighter’s Boon or Reaper’s Onslaught), and not even the case in all condition builds either. Keep in mind that if someone other than the Reaper applies Chill, the Reaper’s damage gets halted. The same thing happens with Terror, but Chill is much more common than Fear.

^ this is a Fair point.
less troll more rational.

Naix.8156:

Evandriel.1239:

I’m not sure I gather why a class having a condition that doesn’t even do damage is that big of a deal. Especially since almost every class can remove conditions like crazy.

I’d be far more concerned if chill did damage, but as it is i’m not too concerned.

You seem pretty new to both the game and necro/reaper in general, so from the self-proclaimed friendliest mmo community let me say welcome to HoT.

Chill doing damage is possible since the expac:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Chill

Condi cleanse is now RNG. Necro/reaper can apply a lot of condis which actually makes it difficult to get the condi you want cleansed actually removed when you need it.

Yet another ad hominem.
Appreciate your contrived point.
cant argue the rest of your post. yes ranger cleanse is awesome… warriors can also remove condis when executing there adrenaline attacks… which is equally moot in my original point of chill stacking.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No Man.4180:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No Man.4180:

Deathly chill, bitter chill, toxic chill, chilling nova, shivers of dread, cold shoulder and chilling darkness all cause chill…. not sure why everyone is using strawman to misconstrue the slew of chill effects available to reaper.

What is Toxic Chill? I’ve been a Necro main since head start and haven’t seen this ability on the class.

And yes, Reapers have a lot of ways to apply chill. It’s their main schtick! ANet said right off the bat that Reapers were designed to keep high Chill uptime.

So, if we’re complaining about something working exactly as it was designed to…

oops mean Chilling sythe not toxic chill, good catch.
Chill up time renders any movement impairing duration reduction talents moot while increasing CD rate, reducing movement sped and causing a DOT.
i suppose i can see you’re point its not reaper… its chill that should be reviewed/balanced.

Or you could L2P. Only significant source of chills in the game right now is Reaper, which has very well defined strengths (which can be avoided) and weaknesses (which can be exploited).

And it’s apparent you’ve been trying to beat them by simply trading blows. This doesn’t work so well, since that’s attacking them where they’re strongest.

“L2P” tells me you are really aren’t here to discuss, just troll.
ad hominem attacks aren’t legitimate points AT ALL. Learn to contribute.
The chill attacks are LOS (line of sight). i think only two could be considered skill shots. its not about skill when you’re just ensuring there is no obstruction. so dodge can counter the chill attacks but not all of them.
you’re making it sound like i can just spam dodge and win. that is wholly a misrepresentation unless you’ve never really played and just don’t know (ad hominem sorry)

But your second point rings true. I’m not trying to remove the reapers abilities I’m interested in reviewing chill. maybe a new string is required.

Evandriel.1239:

I’m not sure I gather why a class having a condition that doesn’t even do damage is that big of a deal. Especially since almost every class can remove conditions like crazy.

I’d be far more concerned if chill did damage, but as it is i’m not too concerned.

If you’re worried about chill, try to counter build against it i know it’s not the answer anyone wants to hear but really, counterbuilds ARE written up for a valid reason. Not everything that’s difficult to beat should be ripped from the game, it would be incredibly boring to PvP with little to no challenge or thought put into counterbuilds.

so my counter is the med pack (i know boo right?) because it has antidote. so i do have a counter though its no where near effective to really stand up against the chill applications of reaper.
Reaper chill stacks cause damage over time.

Sigmoid.7082:

No Man.4180:

Deathly chill, bitter chill, toxic chill, chilling nova, shivers of dread, cold shoulder and chilling darkness all cause chill…. not sure why everyone is using strawman to misconstrue the slew of chill effects available to reaper.

• Deathly chill is the chill damage trait
• Bitter chill causes vulnerability when you cause chill
• Toxic chill….isnt even a thing?
• Chilling nova requires the target already be chilled and you to crit before it will work. Its hardly passive since you need to chill to continue chilling as well as either a trait, stat or sigil investment to crit.
• Shivers of dread means you have to fear your target, again unless you use a rune its all active play since all fear application is from active skills.
• Cold shoulder doesnt cause chill at all..it makes it last longer, again you need to apply chill to see any benefit same as chilling nova.
• Chilling dark means you have to blind someone. Again all blinds come from active skills.

There is no “passive” application. You’re saying that because you can trait something else you do to cause chill the chill is passive but by definition thats not passive at all because you still have to do something to get the chill just more things cause it.

How very confusing. Passive is more like adaptive armour or guardian virtues passive effects, signets, etc etc

i never said all of those were passive…. yet ANOTHER straw man to misconstrue what was stated.

i said “they all cause chill” which, you’re right, some of those don’t but rather buff chill.

try to stay off the straw man please. this is a discussion of interest not hate.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No Man.4180:

Deathly chill, bitter chill, toxic chill, chilling nova, shivers of dread, cold shoulder and chilling darkness all cause chill…. not sure why everyone is using strawman to misconstrue the slew of chill effects available to reaper.

What is Toxic Chill? I’ve been a Necro main since head start and haven’t seen this ability on the class.

And yes, Reapers have a lot of ways to apply chill. It’s their main schtick! ANet said right off the bat that Reapers were designed to keep high Chill uptime.

So, if we’re complaining about something working exactly as it was designed to…

oops mean Chilling sythe not toxic chill, good catch.
Chill up time renders any movement impairing duration reduction talents moot while increasing CD rate, reducing movement sped and causing a DOT.
i suppose i can see you’re point its not reaper… its chill that should be reviewed/balanced.

choovanski.5462:

smh. engineer is still very strong without scrapper. your play brings shame to our community. please L2P for all of our sakes.

run HGH, I believe in you.

Ad hominan attack, instead of using logical counter points it just “l2p” you know what mate? LEARN TO CONTRIBUTE.

were discussing this to make the game better and inferring someone is not a good player isn’t rational nor assisting the discussion.
Its proving that you don’t want to assist you just want to troll.
There are plenty of other forums to troll mate.

Sigmoid.7082:

No Man.4180:

Sigmoid.7082:

“The point is that Reapers attacks, shroud and weapon swap cause poison and chill passively. if those were Active skills i wouldn’t mind but they are not.”
Sounds like you are moaning about sigils rather than the class. 99% of application is active.

Uh there is no poison sigil in pvp mate… stop using straw man attacks =/

Im not attacking you im just pointing out that you are wrong.

Also there is a poison sigil in PvP. Have you never heard of sigil of doom?

My point still stands the only real “passive” come from sigils that are available to everyone. 99% of application comes from active abilities. Silv summed it up well minus a few things.

Fair point, cant argue about the poison; I’ll acquiesce.

Deathly chill, bitter chill, toxic chill, chilling nova, shivers of dread, cold shoulder and chilling darkness all cause chill…. not sure why everyone is using strawman to misconstrue the slew of chill effects available to reaper.

I’m simply stating the Reaper build is superior to the original set of skills. we should recognize this as intentional, instead Anet of earnestly reviewing CC chains. they wanted to ensure the reaper build could retain a victim with out relying on the players ability. when i play reaper i hardly have to pay attention to win.

There is still a lot of emotional statements being made.
Amenity of the internet, of course, feeds the unjustified indignation.

Sigmoid.7082:

“The point is that Reapers attacks, shroud and weapon swap cause poison and chill passively. if those were Active skills i wouldn’t mind but they are not.”
Sounds like you are moaning about sigils rather than the class. 99% of application is active.

Uh there is no poison sigil in pvp mate… stop using straw man attacks =/

Okay so i was going to defend OP but then i watched the video…. yeah…. but BESIDES THAT i would like to point out that the HOT builds are stronger than the original set builds.
I play Explosives engineer but have no misconceptions about my place in the game, IE not going toe to toe with everyone and expecting to win.
having said that i would like to state that a lot of the HOT builds do exactly this; gives the class passives and non-skill shot effects that allow them to make devastating line of sight based attacks. sometimes you can kite them around an object but not always.
If some of these moves, IE DD evade attack (only massive HP or barriers have a chance 1v1) or Reverent assault (LOS based, might be able to cause partial CD), were skill shots then no one would have a legitimate argument, but these attacks are not skill shots they are LOS and requires little skill out side of ensuring no obstruction.

We shouldn’t just Delete Reapers… having said that though:
The point is that Reapers attacks, shroud and weapon swap cause poison and chill passively. if those were Active skills i wouldn’t mind but they are not.
Its not about skill at that point.
further more, the lack of CC affects on the class IS annoying. Maybe Anet should review CC mechanics in earnest instead of just making them superfluous towards a specific class to sell HOT.
An lastly i see A LOT of contrived points premised around primed language to elicit an emotional response instead of pursuing the conversation rationally. Name calling and trolling proves to me that the player base exploiting these effects are aware of their power and don’t want to surrender their one hit I WIN button.

I wish i had an attack that could evade all active damage, even AOEs, while i was doing damage as well. Just like Daredevil and its evade attack. kind of BS.

Also i see people using primed language to elicit an emotional response to undermine the legitimacy of the point rather than engaging the conversation in earnest.

Look, someone has lost 1v1.

Point being, the maneuver should either be an attack or an evasion; combining the two seems cheap unless its a skill shot or something.
If it was a skill shot i wouldn’t have any room to talk.