Caithe, just Caithe, is zealously (I wouldn’t quite say insanely) murderous when it comes to the Nightmare Court. As far as I’ve seen, other Dreamers would prefer the Nightmare Court just stopped bothering them. Hearts and Events in Caledon Forest that have you killing Courtiers all feature defending against Court attacks or rescuing captives. I mean, sure, the related NPCs may have some angry, vengeful dialogue related to the task at hand, but that’s because they’re emotional beings. That doesn’t mean they’re acting without good reason or going berserk.
And even if that was the case, the Court is provably evil. I’ve already shown a great example how. Some of them being insidious in how they perpetrate their evil doesn’t mean they’re not. There are plenty of non-violent ways to cause terrible suffering. Look at white-collar crime, malpractice and emotional abuse.
The Pale Tree herself doesn’t want the Nightmare Court exterminated. She’s certain there’s no way to redeem them, but would rather they be left alone so long as they leave others alone.
You’re very reactionary, aren’t you? You’re seeing one thing and assuming everything supports that being the status quo when it doesn’t. And ignoring anything that blatantly goes against that notion.
Growing one’s own clothing takes time, effort and concentration. Finding a tailor to make a set of clothing can be a lot simpler and quicker. Handmade clothing can be practical in ways self-grown clothing might not be, and it can certainly be beautiful in distinct ways.
On the other hand, clothing that grows out of your body is easier to repair, as it would heal like the rest of you, so even if it is less durable (which is not certain), that’s less significant.
They clearly dont have the numbers to wipe out the Nightmare Court so they certainly dont have the numbers to capture and hold them all against their will.
Actually, I am pretty sure that the Dreamers greatly outnumber the Nightmare Court. The problem is that forcing anything on Courtiers who aren’t actively causing harm goes against Ventari’s teachings. And Sylvari culture entirely rejecting the tablet so that they can put together the force needed to kill or capture the entire Nightmare Court would actually be a victory for the Court.
Just read everything you can, especially the stuff that catches your eye. Do this in the game, in the books, on the official wikis, in this forum. Curious about something? Look it up. Don’t hesitate. Look up other things that first thing references. Don’t stop until you run out of things that you want to know more about right now, and do it again when there’s something else you want to know more about.
So happy i chose to be a Norn xD but even norn’s endup slaying wolfs, bears and snow leopards. I’ve yet too kill a raven i think which would be terribly saddening if they’d force me
So ye the ethics in this game are not in line always with what you chose as your “personal story”. But i gues the games violence is better represented by a Norn then a silvary indeed. :P
The spirits don’t care when a few of the animals they represent get killed. That’s just the way of nature and life. The important thing is that norn are respectful in their hunts. Which they are.
Humans still have graveyards and crypts to bury their dead, with tombstones that are quite wordier than typical of real life. That doesn’t sound like detachment from caring for physical remains. Norn prefer funeral pyres, which doesn’t leave anything to reanimate. I think most people of those races would prefer that they and their loved ones’ physical remains are not reanimated and forced to fight according to some strangers’ will.
I’d say Necromancers are treated respectfully and cautiously. The good ones are worth tolerating, especially the ones that aren’t minion masters. Their minions are a necessary evil at best, a powerful tool to fight far worse things. Also, Grenth and Raven both said it’s cool.
(This just goes for humans and norn. Sylvari don’t really understand yet and can’t be reanimated anyway. Asura are beyond sentimental gibberish when there’s SCIENCE to do. Charr just don’t like magic in any form, but have more reason to hate Elementalists. Necromancers aren’t responsible for their ghost troubles, but can be helpful resolving them, so that’s something.)
It is plausible that Seers and largos are related in some way, but many things are plausible. The Elder Dragons originating as regular dragons who each ate lots of certain types of magic is plausible, but so would be originating as manifestations of distinct magical energies that took the physical form of dragons.
Ultimately, none of that means anything, unless you want to roleplay a character who believes such an idea has merit and sets out to find evidence. That’s the only use I can see for such speculation. If it turns out to be canon, nothing is gained by figuring it out ahead of time. If it’s disproved, it’s just as useless only more obviously so.
I think some people speculate wildly because they hope ArenaNet will be blown away and use their idea. But thinking that doesn’t make it true or useful until such time as someone steps forward and admits to it.
Like Caithe murdering prisoners who’ve surrendered, huh? Peaceful recruiters whom they tricked into wandering into the woods to have a civil conversation with them?
Caithe is pretty clearly not a devout follower of Ventari’s teachings.
Uh, you HAVE done the heart that is the first encounter you have with the Nightmare Court, right? The one where you wear a disguise and talk to Courtiers, and they say “You should never kill; if you kill someone, they can’t come to understand the Nightmare?”
If you’ve played the White Stag story, you’d know that there are …differences in philosophy between individuals in the Court. Some see themselves as noble heroes trying to liberate the Pale Tree and Sylvari society, others are remorseless monsters who will always prefer the more destructive option. The ‘heroic’ ones are actually worse in this case, because their path could work as they strive for the end goal above their own concerns. The destructive ones are also self-destructive and only succeed in the short term.
Only they totally do it through just talking to Dreamers, too, and expressing their tenets in a clear and direct way—a thing Dreamers NEVER attempt to do with Courtiers. We witness this multiple times. Considering what Dreamers do to Courtiers they “take prisoner” that is to say “murder after they’ve surrendered,” it’s pretty kitten strong to say that what Courtiers do to Dreamers they catch is terrible. I think if you gave me a choice between being murdered after I’d surrendered and having my perspective changed to a more emotional point that my decision would be clear.
That’s not how it works. I mean, sure, some Courtiers will try that to see who they can convert gently, but once that’s failed, they kidnap the remainder and use much more forceful and vile methods to manipulate their emotions until they give in to Nightmare.
is all about an attempt to redeem someone who fell to the Court. It’s made clear that this is not a rare attempt, and it inevitably fails like all the others.
And it’s not a more emotional viewpoint. The Dreamers are capable of all the emotions the Nightmare Court cultivate, but they try their best not to let their anger, pride, fear and so on control them. The Nightmare Court, however, says, ‘Do what those emotions tell you to do, unless it goes against Faolain’s wishes.’ They’ve just traded one decent code that isn’t enforced for a very broken one that is and called it freedom.
The consensus in this thread seems to be “but arenanat has sad that court am evil bade also no killin babby!!” Not too impressed.
I say it seems that you just weren’t paying close attention ingame.
In Brisban Wildlands, there’s a few Hearts and events that tell a story about an alliance between Krytan bandits, Inquest and the Nightmare Court. The bandits trade captives to the Inquest, and the Courtiers facilitate the process. What do they actually gain from it? Nothing but an increased suffering in the area feeding the Nightmare. They commit evil for the sake of there being more evil. Does that make it clear?
Again, this isn’t actual history. Gwen didn’t turn out that way because of cause and effect. She turned out that way because a writer sat down and thought to her/himself, “I think we should make the beloved mascot character of our first game specifically regarded as a mass murderer.”
All things have a right to grow. This includes those things threatened by other things. It also includes things that need to kill other things to gain sustenance. Killing for either of these reasons is acceptable, as some death allows other life to flourish. When presented with two options that both defy this rule, the best choice is simply the one that seems to present the best result in the long run. If you turn out wrong, then at least you tried to do right.
What the tenet actually opposes is restriction against growth (whether by killing or other means) for petty reasons. It’s as much an argument against suppressing free and open discourse for political reasons as plucking weeds from a flower garden when they don’t threaten the health of the flowers. It’s the reason the Dreamers haven’t marched on the Nightmare Court and totally wiped them out, even though they’ve got the numbers and power to do so.
It’s not a hard, unbreakable rule either. It’s a guide to how best to live, and like all the teachings it bends when it must. The Nightmare Court only think it’s a tyrannical code that mandates absolute behaviour.
