Showing Posts For Nymia.3256:
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OP if the event happened at 3am your local time, and you had work that same day starting at 8am, would you still attend the event?
Hey but life’s not fair. He only missed out on a potential 300 gold (assuming he got just 1 chest).
Everybody who’s anybody knows that 300 gold in GW2 is basically nothing, and can easily be achieved by any player leveling from 1-80 once without repeating any content.
I dont understand the control part :o I use tab and once my target is selected, I attack it. I may be misunderstanding though. :/
It’s a little hard to follow for me too, but I thought it was referring to how sometimes you can change attunement as an elementalist and it’s no different than changing weapons out of combat. And then other times it turns on your auto-attack and puts you in-combat, when all you really wanted to do was run faster, say.
He’s probably talking about pet AI.
I wonder if the OP realizes that some people who live on the other side of the world were asleep during the only opportunity to participate in this event.
Well articulated and thought provoking post. I recommend anyone who enjoyed this post to check out the online show, Extra Credits on pennyarcade. A particularly relevant episode to this thread is called “The Skinner Box.”
Those who mentioned the actual math are my heroes. It is something that took me awhile to realize when I started playing FFXI back in 2004. The traditional MMO has what most refer to as ‘Endgame’. I think this boils down to simply achieving level cap. You’ve hit level XX and now can equip level XX gear and do level XX content. Ideally there is nothing in the game you are restricted from. Whether you can succeed or not is another story and apart from what I’m suggesting. Typically after experiencing what this endgame has to offer, you’ve pretty much attained what I call a ‘Natural stat cap". The point where even if you don’t have the best equipment in existence, when you step back and really compare, the difference is laughably negligible. The perceived disparity in the power of players is not because of the numbers on their Underwear of the Godly Wolf Hunter, but because they understand a fundamental strategy of the game mechanics.
So the real issue, and the reason it is such a difficult task for a developer to please the community, is not the game itself, but how we perceive it. The way we are seeing the game, and what is actually going on are at odds. Once again I’ll refer to an Extra Credits episode called, “The aesthetics of play.” This episode basically explains the core aesthetics that are the foundation for why we enjoy a particular game, and how we distinguish different games.
Steering a little closer to the main topic, I think GW2 delivers in both camps for this issue. When you equip that level 80 armor, you’ve pretty much hit that ‘Natural stat cap’. Doing the math, is Exotic gear going to allow you to steam roll something you can’t beat now? Nope. However, the experience you gain obtaining that Exotic gear is what will give you the power required to beat that content. As you can probably guess, because it was a gradual process, this creates a false association in our minds that the gear is why we succeeded. In fact it was because of the greater knowledge-base and understanding of the game itself. So the horizontals should be satisfied that they don’t need to get better gear and run the treadmill. I think the vertical camp should satisfied as well. There are exotics, legendary, and now ascended to go for. Anet will only add more content. This will please the verticals more than horizontals, but that won’t change the fact that it will still be simple to hit that ‘Natural stat cap’ with minimal effort. Anet has made it clear that they are trying to avoid introducing gear ‘better’ than what already exists, but rather new mechanics that require a different approach to how we equip ourselves.
I’d like to mention that these are just my own opinions on the analysis of observations and past experiences in games, I only wish to provide different avenues of thought to explore. Check out Extra Credits. It really is an eye opening show on the game industry and important issues revolving around games as a whole. If you made it this far, thanks for reading!
Check out the extra credits episode about power creep, and then maybe you will understand why they are in fact mutually exclusive.
This is an MMO
MMO’s are based on “more effort, more reward”
Stop trying to destroy a perfectly good MMO with the constant whining that all should be equal.
He’s right. This is now a generic “MMO”, with a generic “progression” system. It is just about average when compared to the others.
And… if all of us “whiners” get our way his kind wouldn’t know what to do with the game anymore. They would have to go find some other “perfectly good MMO” to play.
No, it’s not. Because WvW is a hell of a lot more complex than you’re boiling it down to (twice now). It’s a number’s game (whose army is bigger) until it becomes a question of who has the better tactics and strategy. Gear shouldn’t enter into it because you can still do good in WvW without actually engaging the other players directly.
See also “night-capping” and/or “rush for the tick”.
And your math may be flawless but mathematics is only good for modeling behavior, it cannot accurately describe an outcome based on odds. 15 people with a 20% stat bonus do not automatically become an effective 18 people. They are 15 individuals with individual force multipliers, but they do not have three more bodies. There are still 15 targets, and a force facing them which is capable of meeting them, say, at a 1:2.5 ratio will probably beat them. NOBODY fights at a 1:1 ratio in WvW, that’s not the goal. The goal is to capture, outmaneuver, outplay.
This is all mostly true, and I basically agree.
The point is – It absolutely matters. Anyone who says this gear doesn’t matter is either lying or doesn’t understand. It might only matter a little, but it matters. It may or may not decide the outcome of fights, but it matters.
And if the gear will continue to become inflated in the future, it is going to matter more and more and more.
Any activity, be it WvW or dungeon crawling, has a limited number of player slots available.
For any group who wants to be competitive in these activities (because for a lot of us fun comes from the competitive aspect), they need to be as efficient as possible.
If I can only bring 5, or 30, or 166 people to a competitive activity… I am going to bring the best people I have.If I have a choice between two roughly equally skilled players, but one of them has 20% higher stats because of better gear, there is no longer a choice.
Therefore – in any game where the maximum stats provided by passive things, such as gear, continues to increase -> players must continue to procure these items in order to remain on a level playing field.
Why are we even debating this? You know who is really good at explaining this stuff? Those guys over at ArenaNet… you know the ones who have written essays and delivered speeches on the subject.
Oh come on, you know why we’re talking about this. We’re debating this because we are not “those guys over at ArenaNet” and we have our own opinions on the topic. Also, I have nothing better to do while waiting to get natural gas turned on so I can get heat in my home. (I need a device which runs on Internet drama, so I can patent perpetual energy.)
Anyway, you’re talking of there “not being a choice” is a bit of a situational blindness. The best people you have are not always the strongest, the fastest, or the smartest. Sure, they excel at certain tasks but in WvW sheer raw statistic advantage can only take you so far. It becomes a numbers game not in statistics but in “body count”, which is one thing I actually dislike about WvW but . . . it’s in the nature of the game.
Superior numbers (body count) can, and will trump superior statistics as often as superior tactics. Who cares if 45 people attacking you have weaker gear than the 10 people defending? You’re more than likely going to get rolled in a straight up fight.
Therefore, if I have a choice between a singular player kitted out in the maximized statistical value of effectiveness who will run off and do his own thing . . . and 6 people with 20% less effectiveness who can work as a unit? No contest who I’m picking, I’ll go for units over singular elite soldiers.
Ok, so let’s take that example.
Let’s assume for the sake of discussion that WvW is entirely based on numbers. Let’s say, just for now, that whoever brings the bigger zerg wins. And to remove this variable, let’s also assume that all of the players are dedicated WvW players who know what to do and who to listen too.
If Ascended gear in every slot, each slot requiring a considerable grind, would provide roughly a 20% stat bonus over Exotic gear…
Then 15 people have the effectiveness of 18. Then 25 people have the effectiveness of 30.
This matters, a lot. All of a sudden a 60 man WvW guild wearing full Exotics is the same as a 48 man Ascended WvW guild.
That’s a DOZEN people (equivalent to 15 Exoticly geared people) who are now free to go cap camps, simply because of the passive gear bonuses the Ascended gear provides them.
Percentages scale, too. In fact percentages scale in an amazing way – directly.
Yes, there are mitigating factors here. No, it doesn’t change the fact that this is a problem.
In any other game, I would say this is a minor issue. In a game designed around gear equality, it is absolutely game breaking.
Your methodology does not address the issue.
Your analysis contains demonstrably false statements.
In short – this is irrelevant, and wrong.
You see… you now have an obligation to play this game in a very specific way. If you ever want to enjoy new content, be it this FotM dungeon or the next one, you must “earn” your spot and “work” for your gear.
The only thing you really need to work for is to learn what to do, and you need to earn the respect of at least four poor saps . . . er . . . extra targets . . . er . . . fellow noble adventurers.
I didn’t work for my gear, its either handcrafted or Orr map completion rewards. I’m not even using the flipping Ancient Karka Shell earring, because I have Opal Mithril and Emerald Mithril on and like the combination more. I have an exotic bow, which was in my completion reward for Cursed Shore. I have no other exotic parts but am saving up tier six materials so I can make it through my Leatherworking. Why? Because my drops of exotic armor have been either Light or Heavy and it’s pissed me off enough to say “screw it, I’ll craft it”.
Really, the biggest thing is not having the best gear; that’s an illusion fostered by years on years of mental blocks from other games. It’s important to have gear as close to your level as possible, but bleeding-edge upgrades? No. Handcrafted Masterwork will do just fine for 95% of the content. Dungeons and WvW comprise the other 5%, where you might possibly be outmatched . . . but in WvW this can be handled by not going 1v1. EVER.
(By the way, this is one of the cardinal rules, much like “never dig straight down” in Minecraft. Don’t try for 1v1 fights in WvW. It’s almost guaranteed that one person you saw isn’t alone and their buddies are 30sec behind them. Or ahead of them, able to double back on you.)
Somewhat, but not quite.
Any activity, be it WvW or dungeon crawling, has a limited number of player slots available.
For any group who wants to be competitive in these activities (because for a lot of us fun comes from the competitive aspect), they need to be as efficient as possible.
If I can only bring 5, or 30, or 166 people to a competitive activity… I am going to bring the best people I have.
If I have a choice between two roughly equally skilled players, but one of them has 20% higher stats because of better gear, there is no longer a choice.
Therefore – in any game where the maximum stats provided by passive things, such as gear, continues to increase → players must continue to procure these items in order to remain on a level playing field.
Why are we even debating this? You know who is really good at explaining this stuff? Those guys over at ArenaNet… you know the ones who have written essays and delivered speeches on the subject.
Why does anyone think that 14.7% changes anything. Its just an investment in Nexxon’s Portfolio…not a controlling interest.
Because it does, on a publicly traded company.
Controlling interest is the largest interest. Also, substantial but non-controlling interest can still have massive impact on company direction.
Actually a controlling interest is greater than 50%, not the largest. But a 14.7% is substantial and is likely to get them some board placement which gives them influence over management decisions. In the US, shareholders must file a schedule 13D with the SEC once they obtain a 5% interest or higher to give you perspective on what is considered exercising influence.
While I agree with all of your points, I disagree about controlling interest (in practice).
50.1% is an unshakeable controlling interest, for sure.
Controlling interest can be far less than that. As long as no group of stockholders can outvote you, you have controlling interest. So while technically this is going to depend on the company bylaws, practically even an amount such as 15% combined with politics and other stakeholder opinions can be quite nearly a controlling interest.
While I personally accept low lvl people in my runs, leveling to 80 in this game is super easy. If you can’t be bothered to do even that, expect really a lot of people to kick you.
I’m not trying to pick on you Zid, I just noticed something here that I felt like pointing out.
You see… you now have an obligation to play this game in a very specific way. If you ever want to enjoy new content, be it this FotM dungeon or the next one, you must “earn” your spot and “work” for your gear. You must level to 80, buy rares, then earn your exotics, and THEN – and only then – will you be considered worthy of the new content.
If you don’t enjoy those things… the grind, or the grind that follows it, or the grind after that one… then you will never be allowed into new content. After all, it really is a requirement now and “if you can’t be bothered to do even that” then you haven’t worked hard enough yet and aren’t allowed to have fun.
Once upon a time there was a team of game designers who figured this out, and even thought about creating a game to eliminate this mentality…
“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”
- Mike O’Brien, President of ArenaNet and Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2
I am curious about this topic’s question as well. I was fully expecting that if ascended item status returned from GW1, that it would involve a quest/mystic forge with some serious time/effort/materials with the end result being a simple upgrade to the quality of exotic armor pieces (from exotic to ascended with the only difference being a new infusion slot in each armor piece). This way exotics are still the upper “tier” of gear, but the ascended property is more of a horizontal upgrade meant for dungeons and whatever new content you have planned. Ascended would just be exotics with special properties, so the gear would act the same as exotics in any situation that infusion isn’t necessary such as WvW.
Instead, ascended items are completely different items from exotics and have better stats to boot which is instead a vertical gear climb. Why is this?
Precisely so.
The answer to your question, OP, is found right here:
“Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level.”
and later in the same blog
“adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/
Eventually people will get tired of the dungeon and they’ll do some side runs to older dungeons for alts (while still primarilty grinding the new Fractal). Otherwise you are pretty much stuck. This always in any MMO that receives a content expansion and GW2 won’t be any different.
Which is when the next gear release will happen.
OP: You’re boned until they retroactively add “current rewards” to the old dungeons. Maybe you can find a guild.
Thoughts:
Grind is fine, when it is entirely optional and does not result in you being more or less powerful than someone who didn’t choose to grind. I might participate if I am half drunk or have a specific goal in mind.
Grind is nothing better than busy-work when it is a requirement to be on par with others. I absolutely refuse to participate.
No it should be some what hard to get the “best” of any thing it gives games longer life and give a human a achievement to work for being every one is looking for the next best thing that just a human behavior. This is not just for GW2 its for every new game there is something to work for that is not easy if one wants to be or get the “best” of any thing.
Its a lot like real life and in some ways teaching you good life lessons (nothing going to get handed to you and you MUST work for the good things in life).I’m not looking for “the next best thing”, so does that mean I am not human?
You are in one way or another even talking about this show your looking for the next best thing.
That doesn’t really make any sense.
I don’t want “the next best thing”. I want to get on a level playing field and then beat the ever-loving snot out of my enemy. I don’t want to ever worry about gear again.
I don’t jump from game to game consuming the content and then looking for “the next best thing”. Instead, I find a game I like and I invest years of time and thousands of dollars into playing it and having a good time.
This entire mindset of always looking for the next best thing seems unstable, and possible unnatural to me. What is it in your life that is missing? What are you really searching for?
Are video games for entertainment, or psychological satisfaction of some real or perceived inadequacy?
Why does anyone think that 14.7% changes anything. Its just an investment in Nexxon’s Portfolio…not a controlling interest.
Because it does, on a publicly traded company.
Controlling interest is the largest interest. Also, substantial but non-controlling interest can still have massive impact on company direction.
No it should be some what hard to get the “best” of any thing it gives games longer life and give a human a achievement to work for being every one is looking for the next best thing that just a human behavior. This is not just for GW2 its for every new game there is something to work for that is not easy if one wants to be or get the “best” of any thing.
Its a lot like real life and in some ways teaching you good life lessons (nothing going to get handed to you and you MUST work for the good things in life).
I’m not looking for “the next best thing”, so does that mean I am not human?
No. Max set gear should be a goal to achieve. It should be based on the amount of work one is willing to put in….
I loved Epics in EQ… I worked hard to get my Singing Short Sword. I felt proud after I got it. I can still tell stories to this day about friends I made and things I did while working on it.
I understand that I am not entitled to anymore then what I, as a player, can do with my own two hands. I know that I may not be the best most UBER player. However, I also know that I will never give up, and I will do MY best even if I fail. And no one can take that from me…
The real question is… would that Singing Short Sword be less rewarding if it had the same stats as the one before it?
Some people say yes – prestige isn’t prestige without increased character power.
Some people say no – prestige is prestige, and doesn’t require increased character power.
The problem is… you can’t have both methods for the same content. Either there is a plateau, or there isn’t.
Thanks for the replies…and yes, the post is meant to be a bit of a satire, but hey…we all know how much love and attention Arenanet puts towards the tiny details of their world, so I can guarantee you nothing is done without a lot of thought.
Maybe this is Arenanet’s way of sneaking an apology into the game for the fans. Maybe not.
But what I think is relevant is the discussion how and why decisions to monetize the game are made, and the impacts it might have on a “pure” product. But it’s interesting, because prior to launch, most GW2 fansites were filled with posts that read somewhere along the lines of, “Anet! Shut up and take my money!”
There’s plenty of players out their who want nothing more than to give Anet as much money as possible, but perhaps it’s worth considering whether or not Nexon’s model for collecting such money is the right (or ethical) way to do it.
I was one of those players.
At this point, if ANet retracted this garbage I might come back to play… but I don’t think I would be very willing to spend any more money for a very, VERY long time.
I think GW2 is dead now, it just doesn’t know it yet. I would be willing to bet this time next year it will be a very low population game destroyed mainly by bugs and being unable to compete for the attention of the “endless progression” players.
WoW doesn’t have bugs, or glitches. If and when they do they are solved in a matter of days, if not hours. It is highly polished and very user friendly. You’ll never compete for that audience with this buggy glitch ridden game. The people who are filling up the game right now either:
A) Don’t really care, and are likely to never spend any money at all.
B) Wanted gear progression, and will likely get bored and frustrated very soon.
C) Haven’t yet discovered what happened.
I will also take a nice long look at PS2.
I will not, however, purchase any game until it has undergone it’s first major update.
Thanks ANet, for teaching me that important lesson.
umm you possible wouldwant tolook to ascended items/infusions recipes…
They possibly surpasses most korean mmorpg grinding requirement….
Also they almost destroyed economy in few days ._.To craft 12 Ascended items:
3000 tier 6 fine crafting material
12 vials of condensed mist essence
600 globs of ectoplasm
288 skill pointsTo infuse 12 Ascended items:
3000 Passion Fruits
1200 Vicious Claws
12 Eldritch Scrolls = 600 skill points
240 Mystic Coins = 240 daily achievementsEnjoy your grind.
Right, but how many ascended item slots are there at present? Three. You can also buy infusions with the dungeon tokens.
Yeah, sometimes when I have a very long road trip I will just think of it as a series of smaller segments.
Instead of counting up to 1000 miles, I will focus on the smaller 100 mile blocks. Then it doesn’t seem so bad.
The difference is, of course, that my road trip eventually ends and I eventually arrive at my final destination.
Should? There should be games where max gear is very difficult to obtain and which have an endless, ever-increasing power-creep for those that want to play such games.
There should also be games where max gear is relatively easy to get and there is no power creep for those that want to play such games.
One MMOG cannot serve both sets of customers. GW2 was supposed to serve the latter. There are literally scores of MMOGs that serve the former.
I wouldn’t be upset if there were ANY that served the latter. There aren’t.
Has anyone else noticed that this thread has more pages than the General Forums?
Is there a reason why it shouldn’t?
I mean that honestly, because I can’t think of one.
This is … just too much. If all that is right I’m not worried. I’m relieved. It means I can quit this game and never come back and rely on all themepark games becoming utter trash in the name of profit.
Just a note… I have been playing EVE Online since last Friday or so, and while the game has a MASSIVE learning curve it really is a blast.
100% PvP, Full Loot Drop, Sandbox-Style game based on being an immortal space ship captain.
I have given up on all MMOs, and all multi-player “themepark” style games.
you keep on and on and on and on you become a nagging little annoyance that people just roll their eyes at and keep going.
do you only care about yourself?
That wouldn’t happen to be a personal attack would it? Because I thought those were against the rules here.
It was a question posed to the community…Do you care more about clogging up the forums with the same complaint? Or do you care about actually letting people see the constructive posts.
People in these posts talk about what the people want etc. and claim to care but they seem to stop caring when it means that THEY aren’t the ones on the front page so the same complaint is made over and over bumping good posts off.
So the question was do you care more about yourself or the community?
No personal attacks, but you can take it as you please.
First of all, for the record… I do not feel like anything said thus far has been a personal attack towards me. At least not a good one. :-)
Chris, I see your core question here. I will answer you directly.
This game, pre-Ascended, was a different place for many of us. We did defend the game, even with all of it’s flaws and bugs. We fostered community. We had a great time.
Post-Ascended this is an entirely different game. Those who never liked the game managed to convince somebody in charge to change it at a fundamental level. They lied to us, tricked us out of our money, and will not refund those of us who were their earliest supporters.
So, what do we have left? Well, we own game accounts for a game we can’t stomach anymore. What’s cool though, is that each of those accounts comes along with a forum account that allows us to give feedback on the game.
Since we no longer have the product we purchased, we might as well use the forum access to provide feedback to the company that lied, cheated, deceived, and stole from us.
And, if in the process it annoys people who championed this change in the first place…
… excellent.
TL;DR – If this game is going to become the opposite of what it claimed to be, then I hope it fails and everyone who is responsible for the change ends up in a soup line.
you keep on and on and on and on you become a nagging little annoyance that people just roll their eyes at and keep going.
do you only care about yourself?
That wouldn’t happen to be a personal attack would it? Because I thought those were against the rules here.
You must be new here. The rules don’t matter. Moderators hand out suspensions without infracting you, or giving you a reason. Sometimes, they do it hours later with no explanation and no deleted posts.
If the moderator likes what he has to say, it will stay despite the rules.
If the moderator does not like what he has to say, it will be deleted despite the rules.
If the moderator feels like it, you will be suspended without explanation, for an undefined period of time.
But, as it relates to the OP – what you see on the forums is the leftover posts. If the moderation wasn’t so inconsistent and censoring you would be amazed at the things that have been said.
Guys, we get it…They turned their back on a lot of what they promised, but please can we stop making 1000 new threads all linking the same quotes, videos and complaints?
The first few were warranted, but it is getting annoying now.
Please at least try to attach your feedback to existing posts so that people actually giving constructive advice or seeking it don’t get their posts thrown off of page 1 with the spam of just complaints.
I know the game is far FAR from perfect….but it’s still pretty darn good.
No.
I will continue to haunt these forums whenever I like, on all accounts that are not refunded.
They need to hear our outrage. Everyone who visits this forum needs to see the entire front page filled with anger, disappointment, and sadness. Gamer news outlets need to have a rich plethora of complaints to draw from. Players who don’t know what’s going on need to be stunned when they first visit the forums by the sheer number of complaint posts.
This is what the forums are for. If you don’t like it, don’t participate.
There is a point where your protest stops being seen as members angry and begins to be viewed as the vocal minority of users on the forum who wine over everything.
I agree that some posts are valid but when you keep on and on and on and on you become a nagging little annoyance that people just roll their eyes at and keep going.
You are also hurting the community more by hiding constructive posts aimed to help people or people asking questions. Do you not care about that aspect or do you only care about yourself?
Except:
I am complaining about one very specific thing.
I intend to be an annoyance. I have nothing to lose here.
The community I was a part of is now dead. What is left is those who wanted this change, and therefore I honestly couldn’t care less.
I don’t like it, and I am not playing.
Satisfied?
Let’s see this happen. Of course, we would also need a way to target allies and maybe some targeted heals. Then you’d have to make sure to add some Taunts to the heavy armor wearers.
After that we could put in a LFG tool to automatically match you up with cross-server team to do dungeon runs. I mean, they already use that technology in PvP.
Speaking of PvP… we need to make sure the trinity gets in there too. I think taunt should have the same affect on PvP. And it’s really not fair that a rank 43 player doesn’t have anything over a rank 10 player. This dedicated effort should be rewarded properly.
You know what else would be cool? What if we restarted the Charr – Human war, and had the other races pick sides. We could stop them from talking to each other completely, and put them forever at odds. This would add a whole new dynamic to the game that I think really is missing right now.
I know I am exceptionally excited at the prospect of grinding out my Ascended level Infusions a year or so from now. Maybe then I can finally stop grinding out gear and start having fun.
I have a feeling it’s the same people posting on this forum, for all I am reading is the same people quoting eachother, and just spitting out the words again in a different form. It almost looks like high school again.
Just get the new gear and call it a day or stop playing. I’m pretty sure that ANET has already read the posts, if not the main “theme” of this thread, and will figure something out. They can’t just pull the plug on the ascended gear as it has the infusion aspect which would just make new dungeon even harder. They can’t just pull the plug on the new dungeon they spent hours on developing, coding, testing etc. There is no magic switch in programming and business.
Well, they could just normalize Ascended gear stats down to normal Exotic levels, and leave the Agony resistance in place. Do the same for Infusions.
Now you have 1 tier of gear, split horizontally between “good for almost anything” and “specialized for grinding dungeons”, but there’s no difference in power between the two outside of those grindy dungeons like Fractals.
Won’t happen though! It’s too unlike the standard gear treadmill model.
For the record: this would have been acceptable to me, too. I bet most people wouldn’t mind it at all… and if it presented major barriers to entry for newcomers later on, I am certain a creative solution could be found by talking with your customer base.
I’m surprised these MMO players are dissatisfied with the latest patch, said no person ever. Business as usual “This game with millions of players isn’t tailored to ME!” Considering I’m not paying a subscription fee, I welcome any content and patch. No MMO will ever be perfect, but I always appreciate ArenaNet’s effort.
This is pretty common. The guys who have no intention or desire to spend money will just take whatever they get… since it’s FREE.
But the guys who have spent HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS on this game (and were perfectly willing to spend hundreds more) based on a vision and team with a history are just whiny babies.
I can understand Ascended armor being introduced with an infusion slot. It’s the stat increase that is really bugging me, now, especially since the game has been balanced for exotics.
With full ascended gear, my warrior main could tear through most classes with enough critical hits in less than 3 seconds. That’s a bit wrong.
Granted, I’ll wait to see how ANet plans on addressing these balance issues, but I think they created a problem.
Why not just have Ascended armor have exotic stats, except they also have a slot that Fractal protection can be slotted for?
Or better yet, just allow us to infuse exotic gear a la GW1 infusion, even if it’s only one piece per run.
I’m not against different tiers of armor. I’m against the imbalance that stat increases will impose.
The answer ANet gave is:
because they want to address a “basic need” with “proper gear progression”
“No, it’s cool you don’t have the latest gear let’s go have some fun.”
Infusions have quality levels, and add stats to the gear.
They are starting with Fine (blue) quality Infusions, and plan to add more in the future.They have tried to hide the treadmill in new upgrade slots instead of new gear.
A gear treadmill is the idea that gear will infinitely get better so you constantly have to strive to get the new gear. Like I said before the new levels of gear are here and ANet isn’t going to take them away.
The game is very new in terms of an MMO and as long as the best tier of gear stops at ascended ANet is simply extending the gear progression already in the game.
You haven’t read everything they have said about this change. I’m not going to argue with you, because I don’t think you are trying to be difficult I just think you are ignorant of the entire change.
I suggest you do a little more reading, because this is in fact the first step of the new vertical progression system that has been added to GW2. They have confirmed that in the future new content will require this gear, and more gear progression is coming.
Don’t ask me to prove it, because I won’t. You will either find out now or you will find out later when it’s staring you in the face and laughing at you.
Wiser with Age..
Full sets of Ascended gear is coming that won’t be stopped no matter how much people agree or disagree with it. It is time to accept that fact and move on, it is another tier of gear they felt needed to be added after exotics. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with this decision.
If they stop with Ascended that relives the game of having the gear treadmill. My suggestion allows gear progression through dungeons but doesn’t make it required to anyone not interested in them.
Infusions have quality levels, and add stats to the gear.
They are starting with Fine (blue) quality Infusions, and plan to add more in the future.
They have tried to hide the treadmill in new upgrade slots instead of new gear.
And you guys buying this whole “gap closer” thing.
How does pursuing Ascended gear, which is now necessary, move you closer towards Legendary gear?
Does it do that? Just wondering, since that was the problem and all, right?
I’m ok with this new tier because they said it bridges the gap between acquiring an exotic and acquiring a legendary.
I will NOT be ok if they add another tier to bridge ascended and legendary. That means that they were just BSing me.
IMO, they are fixing a flaw which existed. It may not be the best way, but I’m willing to give it a go.
You missed an important part of the Ascended gear.
Infusions – which include stat AND agony resistance upgrades. They are currently released at Fine quality (blue), which means after everyone has full Ascended gear they will be releasing increased infusion qualities. Furthermore, they have explicity stated that the “care about vertical progression” in the Kotaku interview.
See, those of us who are most pissed about this are the ones with all of the information. Most people don’t know it all yet… but they will eventually. By then, of course, it will be too late to save the game.
There is no hope for the MMO genre. That sucks too, because GW2 could have been a lot of fun.
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS
What?? I for one can’t believe this new innovative strategy of non-grindy fun based gameplay has tanked the NCSoft stock.
I mean.. what gives here guys? They finally added what all of the “most dedicated players” clearly had a “basic need” for… “proper gear progression”.
Shouldn’t that stock price be at an all time high!!!!?!?!11/!?!
Oh wait a minute… it’s at a 52 week LOW?!
Who could have ever seen that coming. I know I sure didn’t.
No one knows all of the details yet. Man, people need to take a chill pill.
I’m perfectly willing to read or listen to anything that might explain them.
Where is it?
Under News and Annoucements
Will be there on Nov 16. Now sit tight and kitten /p>
I’ve read everything there was to read. I have read multiple analyses of that information. I love this game, because of one very specific reason that is currently in jeopardy.
This is much like Obamacare – “we have to pass it to find out what’s in it!”.
In the meantime, I am just waiting and hoping that Mike O’Brien will come back from vacation and fire somebody who has horrible, terrible ideas. Or, maybe tell Nexon to shove it and let the market sort it out.
Either the company stays true to their vision, in which case I confidently pledge my time and game budget to them for the foreseeable future…
or…
They abandon their vision and become one more faceless, soulless game making megabehemoth that can’t seem to understand why every game they make fails to compete.
No one knows all of the details yet. Man, people need to take a chill pill.
I’m perfectly willing to read or listen to anything that might explain them.
Where is it?
8% is not significant.
How about if your boss offered you an 8% raise? I, for one, would love it! You know why? 8% is not insignificant.
Nice job you have there. 8% more money wouldnt change a single facet of my everyday life.
An 8% increase in stats isnt going to make a significant difference in GW2 either.
If 8% is so insignificant, then why add it in the first place?
I’d guess for the min/max crowd. Ask Anet. They could be the same as exotics for all I care.
Oh thank god, I had almost lost hope.
That is EXACTLY the problem.
I just dont think its a problem. And certainly not an issue worth quitting over.
Well, if it is just this once to fix the overall design… I might agree with you.
If it is, instead, “just the beginning of a gear progression initiative”… you can’t think in terms of 8%. You have to think in terms of increase vs frequency.
ANet has stated this release will take 6 months. Worst case scenario is 8% every 6 months.
They are not debating this possibility.
8% is not significant.
How about if your boss offered you an 8% raise? I, for one, would love it! You know why? 8% is not insignificant.
Nice job you have there. 8% more money wouldnt change a single facet of my everyday life.
An 8% increase in stats isnt going to make a significant difference in GW2 either.
If 8% is so insignificant, then why add it in the first place?
I’d guess for the min/max crowd. Ask Anet. They could be the same as exotics for all I care.
Oh thank god, I had almost lost hope.
That is EXACTLY the problem.
8% is not significant.
How about if your boss offered you an 8% raise? I, for one, would love it! You know why? 8% is not insignificant.
Nice job you have there. 8% more money wouldnt change a single facet of my everyday life.
An 8% increase in stats isnt going to make a significant difference in GW2 either.
8% is a massive number for most people who don’t want this change.
Funny they would court you at the expense of us.
why are all u crybaby’s getting so upset with a new tier of gear that is in between exotic and legendary? im lmao at all the im quitting post here and all the crying about a gear treadmill before the patch is even out please read this post.
Yes, well, if this is the calibre of player that is staying on for the treadmill, ANet is welcome to them.
Exactly. Is this what you want, ANet? MMO Locusts?
It bears repeating, even though I and many others have said it already:
This is the first content update.
I think Mike O’Brien himself needs to post on this subject.
Don’t continue throwing your subordinates under the bus, Mike.
If this decision is going to stand then you will absolutely bear the brunt of the praise/ridicule. You are the President of the company, you are the executive producer (meaning you make the final decisions) of Guild Wars 2.
“We have always taken our responsibility to players seriously with the original Guild Wars, and we will continue to do so with Guild Wars 2.” – Mike O’Brien
I feel they are stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Something or someone is telling him that this is the right change to make – I mean, they are the professionals and they are giving him “concrete” evidence that this change is necessary for the ultimate life of the game.
This is what I want – I want them to hold off on this one change (adding infusion and new gear levels) – implement the patch, garner some good will with the customer. Take a week or so, gather feedback via different methods (e-mails, in-game pop-ups, forums), give people ALL the information and allow the majority to decide the path the future of this game goes. I know it’s asking a lot, but hell, we put a lot of faith in this company and this game. Ultimately, we the customer pay the bills – we should at least have a voice.
No, I disagree.
The “majority” shouldn’t even matter. They set out to design a product with a very specific and widely understood vision. They marketed that vision, they sold that vision, we all purchased that vision.
Changing the entire REASON for the game (because if it is a WoW clone, isn’t it just a money making ploy?) because of any “majority” opinion this early after release is a huge mistake, and implies that they never had any intention of maintaining a backbone and following through with this vision in the first place.
This isn’t a commodity item which needs to be tailored to suit the most people possible at the smallest cost.
This is an art item which needs to be held true to a vision and standard of quality.
Let’s just hold ArenaNet to their word that they won’t be adding any more tiers in. That it will simply stay:
Basic>Fine>Masterwork>Rare>Exotic>Ascended>Legendary.
And let’s make sure that later on they don’t keep adding bonus stats to Ascended items.
Ascended and Legendary are going to be on the same playing field. Just like Legendary was on the same playing field as Exotics.
Does it make what they are doing right? No. I for one am still hurt about it, but they plan to go forward with this patch it seems.
The only thing I can suggest to make sure things like this don’t happen again:
- Be vocal on the forums (everyday if you want)
- Check things on Guru/Reddit
- Ask questions and try to get some communication
Let’s make sure from here on out the ONLY way we are progressing, is through content and not in gear stats.
Speaking for myself, and my family (who all play).
I will forgive them this one single additional tier, which is contradictory to their promised system, if they explain that this will in fact be a one time change.
I’ve read everything they have said multiple times. This appears to be, based on all sources, the beginning of a long “gear progression” initiative that will simply not affect sPvP.
It’s not okay. I won’t do business with a company who thinks they can deliver a Honda when I purchased a BMW, as long as they say “hey we aren’t planning on doing this every 3 months”.
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