Guild Wars 2

Terrorsquad.4802:

And Ele? You basically called all classes but Ele.
If you’re gonna nerf sustain across the board, might aswel take Ele with it.

Why ? He mains ele.

Ragion.2831:

Raek.8504:

The thing with revenant is that they are the same as thief in terms of skill->profit.

Sure most revenants make you think that they are up, but few of them make you think that they are OP as hell. And that’s how class design should be tbh.

im not sure you understand what you are talking about, you either have never played revenant in league or all you do is 1v1.

Revenant only does well when there are a lot more power builds in the area than condi builds, it has nothing to do with skill level. PvP generally has nothing to do with skill level thats why you have 80% of players running condi builds from diamond up.

Even thief that has a high skill requirement has a lot of cleanse even on a power build despite the amount of damage they do, why?

Warrior with no skill requirement has a lot of cleanse and they also do a lot of damage, why

But i asked a dev last season why power revenant has no cleanse and he said to me because power revenant has too much power. It was at that moment i realized how hopeless this studio is

Before the damage formula changes power used to outperform condi, Anet fixed that by having condi outperform power. This is the caliber of people we are making suggestions to
.
The easiest thing for every revenant to do on this thread is to accept that this condi cleanse everyone wants will either not happen or they will put it on a useless legend or traitline.

Even if they do something intelligent for once, another Xpac is coming and probably another elite spec which means they will break things again and spend the following two years balancing wildly and we will all convene here again to make suggestions.

Wow, you are salty as hell.

U sound like someone who never played against esl quality Revenants. Hilarious part is that, they don’t need alot of condi cleanse, because they can avoid condi application attacks at the first place with amount of blocks/dodges they have.

L2p i guess.

The thing with revenant is that they are the same as thief in terms of skill→profit.

Sure most revenants make you think that they are up, but few of them make you think that they are OP as hell. And that’s how class design should be tbh.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Krysard.1364:

BrotherBelial.3094:

RedZebra.2345:

i would go for this. But be prepared for more ranting on forum. So in perspective of ANET i wouldn’t do this as they have to keep the majority happy not the minority.

They changed the match making after season 1 because the “pro” players complained. I don’t see how that was keeping everyone happy. As far as PvP is concerned, ANet only wants the “pro” mentality group of players happy. Everyone else can hang. That’s the feeling I get from them as far as PvP is concerned.

if ANet really only cared about “pro” players, we would have a balanced meta and proper ranked system, I can assure you. Thing is, Anet wants everyone to be able to get their wings, and so the system allows it.

Not quite, if the system where to allow anyone to get there wings, there would be no division crossing achievement needed for them. I thought I was going to be done this season with the wings, but nope, I’ll have to play next season and get to ruby if I want my wings.

In all honesty I feel that one achievement causes the most salt.

They do care about there “pro” players, there wouldn’t be a prize fund if they didn’t. The only time they change anything to do with PvP is when the “pros” complain, see season 1. “pro” makes a QQ you tube video about after 8 hours he’s only in emerald. ANet change it to the way it is now. Even though a lot of people think the pip system is a joke.

So? The wings are the problem, like usual, Anet can’t make everyone happy, but this season and previous season, even below average players can get legendary easy.

System mostly insults people who knows hot to play this game, because it’s casual league, build up for people to grind. But nowadays everyone feels cheated if they have to grind for something they wouldn’t get normally, or to improve if they are bad, which leads to whine and whine and whine.

The only thing Anet can do is relocate legendary reward to reward track, which will remove incentive for people to even do ranked. Which will lead to dead pvp.

Funny, but Anet doesn’t care about only one group of players, about people who are doing pvp just for pvp.

FrownyClown.8402:

I would also like to add that condition builds are more forgiving because you don’t have to constantly be attacking or be within melee range for damage (not all classes but a prime example is power warrior vs condi warrior)

Condi wars need to be in melee range for optimal condi bomb, outside of that they are even more vulnerable to kiting then power wars, cuz they lack movement skills from GS.

Rodzynald.5897:

Shaogin.2679:

Some people whined about condi damage. Yeah, it obviously must be fact.

It’s posts like yours that make it real hard for anyone to take you people seriously.

I’d like to understand why I mostly hear about condi than about power damage that is to blame in certain situations.
I played PvP in many games that include DoT type of dealing harm to others and I met with many people telling me that condi is just for those who like that stand in a safe spot and watching people melt. Even some of my guildies that have about few K’s of matches played and reached legend divs say the same that condi in this game is ridiculous.
You seem to have good arguments about condition damage, but can you tell me why people look at condi in such a harsh manner? Are you gonna tell me that they are just scrubs and that’s all?
Are you gonna tell me that condi is not dropping dots and watching people die in time?

Okay, do your people “who reached leg devision” have ever tried to dodge mesmer’s clones ? Or maybe kite Death shroud ? Or maybe dodge headbutt ?

People are lazy, they don’t like to think how to counter anything, they just want free kills, that’s why there are nerf calling threads for 8/9 classes when pvp atm has some sort of balance.

Azukas.1426:

Please answer by which takes more skill

4. Power warrior vs Condi warrior

I main war, they are both equally easy.

Rodzynald.5897:

Raek.8504:

Rodzynald.5897:

Raek.8504:

Look, With power damage, you just have to pressure the enemy until they waste dodges, and then to press 2 bottons and relax, your enemy is already dead.

Block, block, block, immune, immune, block, miss, miss + toughness, perhaps invulnerability or teleportation, burst healing…
Should I go on about counters to power damage?

Block, block, block, immune, immune, block, miss, miss + vitality, perhaps invulnerability or teleportation, burst healing…

Should i go on about counters to condition damage?

So you say that once you got condis on you, you can block them and make them miss? Have you seen how fat damage those make? Vitality will make you endure 2 seconds longer, invulnerability and teleportation won’t help and burst healing will make you suffer for a little bit longer if you won’t cleanse.
There is only immunity in the form of resistance that is a quite rare boon, not for everyone.
You could say that this is a counter before you get struck with condi spell but such counters are are for power as well. We are talking about condi damage and their application rate overall which will be put on you sooner or later despite trying to block and evade.

As for that part with dodge = dodge and evade = ancestral grace
Check this out: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
“Dodge, or use an evasion skill, just before being hit "
This means that dodge makes you evade attacks, nuff’ said.

Toughness will make you endure 2 seconds more against power damage.

So let’s say you took 5 k damage from power attack and after that, 2 seconds later later, you are blocking, can u make that 5 k damage attack you already took miss ?

I can put it the same way: There are only few immunities from power damage purely, it’s something like endure pain or signet of stone, but they are rare, not for everyone.

And what’s wrong with power damage application !? My god it’s nearly on every weapon skill in the game !? Good lord, power damage application is out of control !!!!

Kidds don’t do logic nowadays, nuff’ said.

Rodzynald.5897:

Raek.8504:

Look, With power damage, you just have to pressure the enemy until they waste dodges, and then to press 2 bottons and relax, your enemy is already dead.

Block, block, block, immune, immune, block, miss, miss + toughness, perhaps invulnerability or teleportation, burst healing…
Should I go on about counters to power damage?

Block, block, block, immune, immune, block, miss, miss + vitality, perhaps invulnerability or teleportation, burst healing…

Should i go on about counters to condition damage?

Rodzynald.5897:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Condis don’t come out of nowhere. The enemy has to hit you and you can avoid those hits exactly the same way you avoid power attacks. Condis can be avoided through blocks, blinds, invulnerability (don’t mistake immunity to direct dmg with invuln – those are different things), dodges, evades, LOS, going out of range and so on …

Yes, condis that are already on you won’t stop ticking because you dodge or block. But if you dodge or block after you got hit by a power attack it doesn’t do much either, right?

Cleanses and resistance are additional ways to deal with condis, just like toughness and protection are ways to lower the direct dmg you take.

Dodge = Evade
LOS is an environmental thing, I guess we spoke of direct combat where you and your enemy are clashed tightly. You can try going out of range, but everyone has means to get closer to you, root/slow or pull you back into the fight.

You are right about that part with dodging power attack after being struck. But the deal is that before you get condibombed, you get CC and considering how for example, warriors do their job, they will first force you out of stab with stuns before dropping
their bomb.
As for blind, there are some ways to constantly drop blind on top of someone, negating most of power damage. But inbetween frames while blind is applied, condi build all that has to do is to touch the opponent a little bit to make’em feel the DoT (damage over time) and blind can go screw itself then.
Now please take note that condition damage that was already applied on you ticks too fast and for too much, just like burst power damage and this is not how it should be.

With power you struck and that’s all, you still need to deal damage in order to kill someone, keep it tight and glued until he/she falls to the ground (unless power damage on distance, but you still have to pressure.)
With condi you just have to pressure the enemy for long enough and drop that condi burst just right, then sit back and relax.

Dodge=Dodge.
Evade=Ancestral Grace.

Look, With power damage, you just have to pressure the enemy until they waste dodges, and then to press 2 bottons and relax, your enemy is already dead.

drcraig.9403:

Sorry but imho opinion condi builds are for lazy players. Drop a bomb and stay away.

Hey look, i just pushed Precision Strike, that was so hard… i’ve nearly broke my finger so hard i pushed it.

Wait… i just landed as much damage on necro with 1 skill, as necro dealt to me with full Death spiral ? Oh no !!! Condi too op. QQ.

Oh, wow, Helseth whines again.

Poor lad never satisfied.

It’s more likely a problem with their servers tbh, or routing issues.

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

As i know most of games have Pause mode.

In real sport injured player gets replaced.

Thou you tried to make a point.

Wow, so basically you call everyone to adapt instead of adapting yourself.

Wow would read again 10/10.

SlaSh.5827:

100% true.

I will keep playing GW as I play it from start of GW1 but I should rather quit the game and come back 2 weeks before next pro qualifier tournament.
Only 8 teams are playing competitive PvP atm (and for only 1 game per week but nvm).

I got 4th place in the last challenger cup and now nothing to do until June/July because my teammates left the game given that there is no other competitive and interesting tournament (which is definitely understandable).

Getting to legendary division takes 1 week and the matchmaking is completely broken.
The highest legendary rank you have the better matchmaking you will get. I duoQ with a friend who is rank 19 and we ALWAYS are in a full PRO players team against a full NO NAMES players team. I can feel the pain of my enemies during those games. BUT nvm this message is not about matchmaking algorithm or division system, it’s about competitive tournament.

At least with the Go4GW we used to have some competitive games every week, and any team could participate. I don’t know, open the pro league to everybody and give rewards/stream the top 8 team per week. Or make the Go4GW back and keep both of them up.

Cheers.

True, well it’s always has been like that, first it was because low player base.

But at first it was because of lack of monetary rewards etc. And now, when they did had influx of player base and people actually playing PvP, they managed to screw up again elsewhere.

It’s like they just can’t do everything right for 1 kitten time.

Allison The Strange.4519:

Raek.8504:

Wars are okish as they are.

Right… They just lower sustain than any other class while classes do just as much or more burst… So sure, if you count having mediocre support and high damage but low sustain good then yea… They are fine…

So …. what it has to deal …. with warrior being bad ? …. It’s actually…. good…. because…. they have to trade something …. to get …. well…. something.

Wars are okish as they are.

I can feel you op, but sadly, it’s more L2p issue here, in the scenario you described, if you can’t potentially carry 4v5 you don’t really belong to the devision you are in.

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Salty thiefs… everywhere. Even warriors who have it worse are not as salty.

because nobody plays warriors anymore (besides very few hipsters lol)

I do, it’s my main lel.

Salty thiefs… everywhere. Even warriors who have it worse are not as salty.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

You cannot walk into PvE and get a legendary, why should it work that way in PvP?

So skill mean nothing right ? Grind is ? Oh, okay.

I don’t do pve, but afaik they don’t force you to play the game for 60 days for 1 hour for the luls when you have all the mats needed for legendary.

It’s not like i care about them, but it’s hilarious if you think that daily quests should be the gate. Not being legendary in 2 seasons or w/e.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

1) is intended to produce experience. How can you consider yourself a legend if you only get 1/9th of this game’s mechanics.
However, you can just swap classes before the match ends for the victory points.

2) Timegating is important to force you to play the season and not just farm it all in one day. It is a season. 3 matches is very reasonable, about an hour, which works nicely with people who like to play casually.
Stop yelling at people who play this GAME for fun. It is a Game.

Thanks, first time they add something worthy to PvP i won’t be able to get it. Why !? Because i won’t be able to play 60 days in all 4 seasons combined.

Burn.5401:

Raek.8504, that’s somewhat the idea. What’s the point of legendary if anyone and his mother can reach it and the skill range of that division is enormous? It becomes devalued and better players are forced to play with worse players – vice versa. I want to be able to see a player’s badge and say “hmm this guy is X division, he must be pretty good”. That’s not the case sadly.

Yes, that was true around 2-3 weeks into the league, when Div=Skill. Now it’s not. This system will never create quality matches, the only thing i really want from Match Making system, well it will, but only on the very top for very short time period.

And yeah there is no solutions which will satisfy ever the top end of the system. Queue times, quality matches, etc.

The only way they can make it last and be more accurate on skill level/devision placement is placing MMR vs MMR. But, i m afraid that will never happen because of queue times and PvP population being small. So your solution is more or less acceptable if Anet decide the system to remain in the state it is right now. But i guess 1 month is still to much in that sense.

Burn.5401:

lmperdigao.2567:

the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.

That would be true if there were more divisions, 6 divisions with safety nets is WAY to easy to grind through. You might belong to ruby and grind two months playing 10 games a day. Someone’s bound to get a lucky streak and reach the next safety net.

To the people not wanting to return to unranked the solution is simple. Make more divisions or more frequent seasons. (or remove the safety nets but then casuals will complain forever)

Ummm, no that would be true if placed MMR vs MMR not MMR vs Random MMR.

The way you want it, reduce leagues to 1-2 weeks. That way only the best would be in legendary. Well, not the best but people with best MMR around.

Supreme.3164:

Asrat.2645:

Its pretty easy to outplay them. Its only dangerous in teamfights cause there is too much stuff flying around and you may not notice every skill. But in teamfights you can focus them.
I’d say reapers are the middle ground. Slightly op but not an ‘outstanding issue’ Class 5/9 in my personal ranking. Everything above is begging for nerfs (ele, rev, scrapper, mesmer), everything below needs minor adjustments and has to wait for the op classes to come down to eye level before true balance can begin.

Lol what a comment…
“reapers are only dangerous in teamfights”…reaper OPness is not limited to teamfights and then you say a support ele that just heal and does nothing more, sitting at 13k hp is more OP than reaper; that build can’t 1vs1 or kill anything, merely a healbot… like..what?…How laughable

If you lose to an ele in this meta or this ele he’s stupidly good way better than your average reaper or simply you shouldn’t play pvp….

So i assume Nos losing to ele in finals makes him average reaper ?

You are too high with your love about Eles.

Ensign.2189:

Edge effects. In the extreme case, if you have the lowest MMR in your pip bracket then all of your teammates will have a higher MMR than you, 100% of the time. Even if you’re not at the very bottom of the bracket, well, draw a normal curve. If you’re picking teammates and opponents from a uniform range around your rating, there are more above you in rating than below you, so on average your teammates and opponents will have a higher MMR than you. The inverse if true as well, of course – if you have a really high rating, your teammates will usually have a lower MMR than you since the matchmaker can’t find other similarly rated players (since they don’t exist).

Well the pip pool is working backwards too. Just saying.

sanctuary.1068:

Raek.8504:

sanctuary.1068:

Raek.8504:

Celeras.4980:

Tenebria.7239:

Celeras.4980:

Give me an account that is in “MMR hell”, and I will be happy to stream how the games go and prove it is a result of your own lack of skill.

Other than that, there is no “mathematical” argument anybody can make since we cant prove our own MMR.

Of course higher skill takes you out of it. I just feel like you’re missing the point. You shouldn’t need that higher skill if the system was accurate and fair.

Andddd there it is. The ladder system isn’t “fair” because it rewards people with higher skill.

At least someone finally said it. It has nothing to do with matchmaking, and everything to do with people wanting to be rewarded for their own incompetence. Because its “fair”. GG.

The thread isn’t even about it, or skill, it’s about being stuck in elo/ruby hell what ever you call it and if you are even 50 % (skill level) of the ruby devision you won’t be able to climb since you are at the buttom, which will require way more “actual” skill then it would in fair circumstances.

sanctuary.1068:

Well, only time i had lose streaks was when i played on classes that im not that great at. My longest being 9 lose streak, on a class i have 48% win rate on. Long ago when i played ranked more seriously on another class i had roughly 50% win rate. I stopped ranked for about a year and played other classes more casually and somehow i ended up learning another class way better than the other ones which i now have 54% win rate on. Thats also the class i flew all the way to diamond with, basically ONLY win streaks, but my mmr is indeed wrong when i play on that class, because all matches are too easy but i would have to play tons more matches to even raise my mmr since i have thousands of matches played. If i can get win streaks in a mmr level which is wrong for that particular class i play, i think people can dig their way out of mmr hell if they rotate correctly and try win the team fights. Because, if you wanna get out of mmr hell you NEED to win the team fights.

Class MMR is no longer exist for Ranked. Only your Account MMR.

I know, thats not what i was saying. What im saying is, if you really are that great at a class you will win more than you lose despite being in mmr hell.

Hm, i m not in MMR hell. I ended up nicely where i belong somewhere in legendary week or week n half ago. Why would you assume that everyone who says about the flaws has issues with that system, i only benefited from it. If everyone wants to let it go, what ever. I cba to discuss it anymore.

I wasnt talking to you personally. Look at the name of this thread, i was speaking “you” as in general term and i was explaining what i meant since you had missunderstood the whole meaning of my earlier text. You were talking about class mmr when i didnt mention class mmr anywhere in my text. Instead i was talking about my winrate on different classes bc im not equally good at them.

Um, i m sorry then for misunderstanding.

sanctuary.1068:

Raek.8504:

Celeras.4980:

Tenebria.7239:

Celeras.4980:

Give me an account that is in “MMR hell”, and I will be happy to stream how the games go and prove it is a result of your own lack of skill.

Other than that, there is no “mathematical” argument anybody can make since we cant prove our own MMR.

Of course higher skill takes you out of it. I just feel like you’re missing the point. You shouldn’t need that higher skill if the system was accurate and fair.

Andddd there it is. The ladder system isn’t “fair” because it rewards people with higher skill.

At least someone finally said it. It has nothing to do with matchmaking, and everything to do with people wanting to be rewarded for their own incompetence. Because its “fair”. GG.

The thread isn’t even about it, or skill, it’s about being stuck in elo/ruby hell what ever you call it and if you are even 50 % (skill level) of the ruby devision you won’t be able to climb since you are at the buttom, which will require way more “actual” skill then it would in fair circumstances.

sanctuary.1068:

Well, only time i had lose streaks was when i played on classes that im not that great at. My longest being 9 lose streak, on a class i have 48% win rate on. Long ago when i played ranked more seriously on another class i had roughly 50% win rate. I stopped ranked for about a year and played other classes more casually and somehow i ended up learning another class way better than the other ones which i now have 54% win rate on. Thats also the class i flew all the way to diamond with, basically ONLY win streaks, but my mmr is indeed wrong when i play on that class, because all matches are too easy but i would have to play tons more matches to even raise my mmr since i have thousands of matches played. If i can get win streaks in a mmr level which is wrong for that particular class i play, i think people can dig their way out of mmr hell if they rotate correctly and try win the team fights. Because, if you wanna get out of mmr hell you NEED to win the team fights.

Class MMR is no longer exist for Ranked. Only your Account MMR.

I know, thats not what i was saying. What im saying is, if you really are that great at a class you will win more than you lose despite being in mmr hell.

Hm, i m not in MMR hell. I ended up nicely where i belong somewhere in legendary week or week n half ago. Why would you assume that everyone who says about the flaws has issues with that system, i only benefited from it. If everyone wants to let it go, what ever. I cba to discuss it anymore.

brannigan.9831:

Raek.8504:

brannigan.9831:

How can we prove any of those things you want when we don’t know anybodies MMR. Thats the problems with all these things you are making claims about x when we don’t know x. Thats why I question things like MMR hell because we don’t know everyones X. Is that really that hard to understand?

It’s simple simulation, you don’t need to know anybody’s MMR to simulate it.

it is explain to me how we are going to do it. Simulate it if its so easy. Whats a skill level of 75% mean? If its so easy you do it. Maybe it is but maybe it isn’t I don’t claim to be some kind of mathematical genius. But if its so easy someone do the math to prove MMR hell. Its goes two ways buddy I never said I knew 100% there wasn’t a MMR Hell just that I feel like it probably doesn’t exist based on what A-net has told us about MMR but for you to say its easy to prove and then it exists and then you won’t prove it thats ridiculous. You will never win a debate among adults that way. Its for the people that claim 100% there is a MMR hell to prove it. I am getting sick of this nonsense.

Hm did you read whole OP post ? Basically MMR hell in chess, does not exist, it doesn’t exist in LoL or Dota or CS:GO. Because those games doesn’t artificially tune the MMR system.

We have grind system in conjunction with mmr system, where safe guards exist. It’s easy to assume that matches which should not happen by the nature of how real MMR system works will happen in GW2 system.

Basically the very existence of total blowout matches (30 loosing streak) is already a prove that MMR hell exists.

75 % ? It does mean that a player in best 25 % of his devision. His true level at least.

OP doesn’t want you to prove that MMR hell is real, he wants someone to prove the contery. But i m not even trying to win argument.

brannigan.9831:

How can we prove any of those things you want when we don’t know anybodies MMR. Thats the problems with all these things you are making claims about x when we don’t know x. Thats why I question things like MMR hell because we don’t know everyones X. Is that really that hard to understand?

It’s simple simulation, you don’t need to know anybody’s MMR to simulate it.

Celeras.4980:

Tenebria.7239:

Celeras.4980:

Give me an account that is in “MMR hell”, and I will be happy to stream how the games go and prove it is a result of your own lack of skill.

Other than that, there is no “mathematical” argument anybody can make since we cant prove our own MMR.

Of course higher skill takes you out of it. I just feel like you’re missing the point. You shouldn’t need that higher skill if the system was accurate and fair.

Andddd there it is. The ladder system isn’t “fair” because it rewards people with higher skill.

At least someone finally said it. It has nothing to do with matchmaking, and everything to do with people wanting to be rewarded for their own incompetence. Because its “fair”. GG.

The thread isn’t even about it, or skill, it’s about being stuck in elo/ruby hell what ever you call it and if you are even 50 % (skill level) of the ruby devision you won’t be able to climb since you are at the buttom, which will require way more “actual” skill then it would in fair circumstances.

sanctuary.1068:

Well, only time i had lose streaks was when i played on classes that im not that great at. My longest being 9 lose streak, on a class i have 48% win rate on. Long ago when i played ranked more seriously on another class i had roughly 50% win rate. I stopped ranked for about a year and played other classes more casually and somehow i ended up learning another class way better than the other ones which i now have 54% win rate on. Thats also the class i flew all the way to diamond with, basically ONLY win streaks, but my mmr is indeed wrong when i play on that class, because all matches are too easy but i would have to play tons more matches to even raise my mmr since i have thousands of matches played. If i can get win streaks in a mmr level which is wrong for that particular class i play, i think people can dig their way out of mmr hell if they rotate correctly and try win the team fights. Because, if you wanna get out of mmr hell you NEED to win the team fights.

Class MMR is no longer exist for Ranked. Only your Account MMR.

Chaith.8256:

PadreNike.1803:

Chaith.8256:

When you make Ruby, you don’t have bottom MMR. You have to get a positive win rate in any division in order to progress…

@Chaith

That’s not taking into account the comeback pip and win streak, I can lose 4 games straight and win 3 games straight and I’ll still get legend over time:
4 games lost = -4 pips
3 games won = +5 pips (2 comeback pips, 1 pip, 2 pips from winstreak)

Now that is a horrible win ratio of 3/7 I.e. ~43% win rate that could potentially get to legend.

Yeah fun facts, but who really loses 4 and wins 3 every time without fail? If you’re progressing, let’s be honest, probably not a 43% win rate, it’s 50%+

It’s the way it went for below average tier. That’s why there is a lot whine which doesn’t necessary means “git gud”, they just can’t instantly become so much better in so short time frame.

Just imagine first week of the season you getting stomped by Good/Pros, then Above average then average. On more or less fresh ranked account with not much games, even though those losses take minimal impact it’s multiplied by the amount of losses and volatility. And system forces you to further move in the tiers and devisions, because u ll eventually win some. Which will create even more unbalanced matches.

It’s still very hard to crawl back for not above average / good player. Needless to say, that there are no even close matches. That experience is not what players newly introduced to pvp should face imo.

Celeras.4980:

Give me an account that is in “MMR hell”, and I will be happy to stream how the games go and prove it is a result of your own lack of skill.

Other than that, there is no “mathematical” argument anybody can make since we cant prove our own MMR.

“your own” do you even read ?

@chaith

Problem:

When you hold your own against people who carry and thats fine. But in system eyes you decrease to someone who can’t hold your own. Which leads you to be paired with someone who can’t hold their own. Which leads to same unbalanced match up when “hold their own” people arrives. System where you are stuck and pray on rng to get out of it’s not a good system. Every MMR based system in another games is based on people who hold their own playing against exact same people where skill progress is a key factor to progress, but it doesn’t diminish you because you ve faced way stronger opponents and doesn’t involve lesser teammates.

Better another example can underrated Zoose with diamonds (being on the bottom of devision) carry against full abjured roster and everybody else full roster x100 times?

Quozex.9430:

While everything suggested here is great and what the system needs to start moving to, I don’t think Anet will change the system until after Year of Ascension.

This is because of the way their achievements are structured and how they already told the PvE player that the backpack will be achievable by the end of the year. They won’t change their system in the middle, imagine the rage from all the PvE players that treat “competition” like a reward track.

My second point would be. Yes Anet needs incentive for players to play PvE, but i don’t think adding legendary items to PvP is the way to do that. I feel the skin alone, or titles/AP/feeling like you actually accomplished something should take president. Adding a PvE item for hardcore PvPer’s was IMO a bad decision.

The main problem of gw pvp it’s spvp population, pve and wvwvw players are major part of it. When everyone ll get their wings done they ll be out.

The system which we have now is not fun for PVErs, for wvwvwers it’s mostly easy they ll have their stuff done even faster. The question is though who ll suffer from major population drop when there ll be no big incentive to play. At this point I don’t care already. Cant wait for some grand salt drop about que times.

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

so you think that new acc is going to have higher mmr than people like you that are stuck in the average divisions? i strongly doubt that its what they meant by “average MMR”

dont think you have the gut to admit that on your new acc you’ve played matches where enemies had no idea what to do, where to go and whom you could probably beat even 1v2

Am i stuck? Or p2 is average for week ago? And I need to have guts to admit that I won’t waste my time in 30 40 min que?

And no, the average MMR is a thing when you are not labeled by the system as trash because MMR is no longer the true representation of skill since removal of old school leaderboard.

And I have a guts like Zuko to say the system is flawed. And do not fap on achieving something because my main has high MMR, higher then alt accs.

you keep throwing in some names like a silly fanboy and what on the earth p2 is supposed to be

Prestige 2? And you keep throwing git guds like a mediocre troll.

so what are you trying to prove by getting diamond with alt if you are legendary on main acc? that good players can stomp newbies even better than average players?

I didn’t try to prove anything you claimed I m ruby rofl. The argument was about MMR and wins. I said that MMR is not defined execatly by amount of your wins but more on whom you win. As sniping Gasparov when he is drunk and has a flue will result in higher MMR gain then wining bads x100 times.

You assumed that your are smarter because of yours\who ever else devision standing

well i got legendary in under 90 matches just by fooling around so i think i know what im talking about and you can take off that kitten attitude since you still havent even shown that you arent some frustrated sapphire kid who went on to buy HoT on a new account just to take it out on newbies

Okay it took you 90 games swashing newbes …And? Can’t see a point you trying to make I bought hot to play on EU which is now better for my prime time. And why should I prove you something when I already proved that you are not smarter. Which goes back to my original statement it’s hilarious to watch you raging, small salty kids do that pretty often when you talk to them about something they have no clue about.

funny how you keep spamming about some sort of rage or salt coming from me while you are the one doing all the smack talking here apparently taking out your frustration on newbies didnt make you feel any better about your sapphire on main acc

Spamming about rage n salt? Prove I did spam about it. Better prove that I m sapphire when I linked screen with diamond? You can’t? Aww to bad. Now go crawl back to Mesmer forum and cry abit about them, because again, only good thief can do smth to Mesmer.

well now that i see your hatred is personal it makes sense that you refuse my help, at least you can keep helping Anet to fund esports by buying new accounts and getting them to diamond to make yourself feel better

So, I spammed, saphire, refused help (have I asked for any…?), oh yeah, sorry that I do have 2 copies of gw2 HOT it’s clearly supports thier edreem enough. Why should i stop in dimond? Lol.

I think they need to get back to MMR leaderboards, with scrapping the leagues entirely, the layout for leaderboards itself can be different. But pure MMR based system is just way better in terms of match quality and fun.

They can add some special fluff for top 1000 top 100 etc. They can relocate legendary to special ranked track, but which will require ranked play. But I am not sure, I don’t think that playing pvp should be rewarded at all.

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

so you think that new acc is going to have higher mmr than people like you that are stuck in the average divisions? i strongly doubt that its what they meant by “average MMR”

dont think you have the gut to admit that on your new acc you’ve played matches where enemies had no idea what to do, where to go and whom you could probably beat even 1v2

Am i stuck? Or p2 is average for week ago? And I need to have guts to admit that I won’t waste my time in 30 40 min que?

And no, the average MMR is a thing when you are not labeled by the system as trash because MMR is no longer the true representation of skill since removal of old school leaderboard.

And I have a guts like Zuko to say the system is flawed. And do not fap on achieving something because my main has high MMR, higher then alt accs.

you keep throwing in some names like a silly fanboy and what on the earth p2 is supposed to be

Prestige 2? And you keep throwing git guds like a mediocre troll.

so what are you trying to prove by getting diamond with alt if you are legendary on main acc? that good players can stomp newbies even better than average players?

I didn’t try to prove anything you claimed I m ruby rofl. The argument was about MMR and wins. I said that MMR is not defined execatly by amount of your wins but more on whom you win. As sniping Gasparov when he is drunk and has a flue will result in higher MMR gain then wining bads x100 times.

You assumed that your are smarter because of yours\who ever else devision standing

well i got legendary in under 90 matches just by fooling around so i think i know what im talking about and you can take off that kitten attitude since you still havent even shown that you arent some frustrated sapphire kid who went on to buy HoT on a new account just to take it out on newbies

Okay it took you 90 games swashing newbes …And? Can’t see a point you trying to make I bought hot to play on EU which is now better for my prime time. And why should I prove you something when I already proved that you are not smarter. Which goes back to my original statement it’s hilarious to watch you raging, small salty kids do that pretty often when you talk to them about something they have no clue about.

funny how you keep spamming about some sort of rage or salt coming from me while you are the one doing all the smack talking here apparently taking out your frustration on newbies didnt make you feel any better about your sapphire on main acc

Spamming about rage n salt? Prove I did spam about it. Better prove that I m sapphire when I linked screen with diamond? You can’t? Aww to bad. Now go crawl back to Mesmer forum and cry abit about them, because again, only good thief can do smth to Mesmer.

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

so you think that new acc is going to have higher mmr than people like you that are stuck in the average divisions? i strongly doubt that its what they meant by “average MMR”

dont think you have the gut to admit that on your new acc you’ve played matches where enemies had no idea what to do, where to go and whom you could probably beat even 1v2

Am i stuck? Or p2 is average for week ago? And I need to have guts to admit that I won’t waste my time in 30 40 min que?

And no, the average MMR is a thing when you are not labeled by the system as trash because MMR is no longer the true representation of skill since removal of old school leaderboard.

And I have a guts like Zuko to say the system is flawed. And do not fap on achieving something because my main has high MMR, higher then alt accs.

you keep throwing in some names like a silly fanboy and what on the earth p2 is supposed to be

Prestige 2? And you keep throwing git guds like a mediocre troll.

so what are you trying to prove by getting diamond with alt if you are legendary on main acc? that good players can stomp newbies even better than average players?

I didn’t try to prove anything you claimed I m ruby rofl. The argument was about MMR and wins. I said that MMR is not defined execatly by amount of your wins but more on whom you win. As sniping Gasparov when he is drunk and has a flue will result in higher MMR gain then wining bads x100 times.

You assumed that your are smarter because of yours\who ever else devision standing

well i got legendary in under 90 matches just by fooling around so i think i know what im talking about and you can take off that kitten attitude since you still havent even shown that you arent some frustrated sapphire kid who went on to buy HoT on a new account just to take it out on newbies

Okay it took you 90 games swashing newbes …And? Can’t see a point you trying to make I bought hot to play on EU which is now better for my prime time. And why should I prove you something when I already proved that you are not smarter. Which goes back to my original statement it’s hilarious to watch you raging, small salty kids do that pretty often when you talk to them about something they have no clue about.

Nice incentive.

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

so you think that new acc is going to have higher mmr than people like you that are stuck in the average divisions? i strongly doubt that its what they meant by “average MMR”

dont think you have the gut to admit that on your new acc you’ve played matches where enemies had no idea what to do, where to go and whom you could probably beat even 1v2

Am i stuck? Or p2 is average for week ago? And I need to have guts to admit that I won’t waste my time in 30 40 min que?

And no, the average MMR is a thing when you are not labeled by the system as trash because MMR is no longer the true representation of skill since removal of old school leaderboard.

And I have a guts like Zuko to say the system is flawed. And do not fap on achieving something because my main has high MMR, higher then alt accs.

you keep throwing in some names like a silly fanboy and what on the earth p2 is supposed to be

Prestige 2? And you keep throwing git guds like a mediocre troll.

so what are you trying to prove by getting diamond with alt if you are legendary on main acc? that good players can stomp newbies even better than average players?

I didn’t try to prove anything you claimed I m ruby rofl. The argument was about MMR and wins. I said that MMR is not defined execatly by amount of your wins but more on whom you win. As sniping Gasparov when he is drunk and has a flue will result in higher MMR gain then wining bads x100 times.

You assumed that your are smarter because of yours\who ever else devision standing

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

so you think that new acc is going to have higher mmr than people like you that are stuck in the average divisions? i strongly doubt that its what they meant by “average MMR”

dont think you have the gut to admit that on your new acc you’ve played matches where enemies had no idea what to do, where to go and whom you could probably beat even 1v2

Am i stuck? Or p2 is average for week ago? And I need to have guts to admit that I won’t waste my time in 30 40 min que?

And no, the average MMR is a thing when you are not labeled by the system as trash because MMR is no longer the true representation of skill since removal of old school leaderboard.

And I have a guts like Zuko to say the system is flawed. And do not fap on achieving something because my main has high MMR, higher then alt accs.

you keep throwing in some names like a silly fanboy and what on the earth p2 is supposed to be

Prestige 2? And you keep throwing git guds like a mediocre troll.

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

so you think that new acc is going to have higher mmr than people like you that are stuck in the average divisions? i strongly doubt that its what they meant by “average MMR”

dont think you have the gut to admit that on your new acc you’ve played matches where enemies had no idea what to do, where to go and whom you could probably beat even 1v2

Am i stuck? Or p2 is average for week ago? And I need to have guts to admit that I won’t waste my time in 30 40 min que?

And no, the average MMR is a thing when you are not labeled by the system as trash because MMR is no longer the true representation of skill since removal of old school leaderboard.

And I have a guts like Zuko to say the system is flawed. And do not fap on achieving something because my main has high MMR, higher then alt accs.

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

actually i said the exact opposite, you start with low mmr as a new account and that allows you to stomp newbies all the way up in the ranks landing you conveniently high before you can face any serious enemies

also sapphire-ruby confirmed, lol

Actually q times are lame for p2 so I don’t even bother with it in MY prime time.

Lmaoed on denial of anet statement that new acc has average MMR.

Caith Frostball leeto are gods for doing it everyone else is a scrub. Good times buddy. Btw about game quality they are better in diamond ruby because ppl there want to win, not to troll with gimmicky builds.

Lexander.4579:

that just goes to confirm my words about making a new acc with low mmr to stomp through newbies into high rank

Why ? Aint that skill and system works right ? Or smth ?

So basically you confirm that account with High MMR gets free ticket to haven ? xD Or what ? I won’t even post on my main on this forum it’s fun just to troll wanabe elititsts mongrels in here from alt acc. The power of internet at it’s finest.

On that acc with 60 hours lol

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

if you have several thousands matches played on main and just a hundred on your alt your main will have by far higher mmr as long as it has a win rate above 50%

i dont get how you cant understand that such a huge difference in the number of matches played is vital in determining your MMR but i suppose good job telling to lil criers and whiners of this forum what they want to hear and good job ruining matches of newbies by stomping them with a new account

Aww, another one doesn’t know how mmr works, MMR is not connected with amount of games and wins, but whom you win and how much MMR you ll get for your win.

sure, every person who gets rekt in sapphire-ruby tier has the perfect idea how MMR works and legend players are totally clueless about it

Wow am in saphire ?

or ruby, thats the general area where grinding mediocrities get stuck before they come to complain on forums

Lexander.4579:

Raek.8504:

Lexander.4579:

if you have several thousands matches played on main and just a hundred on your alt your main will have by far higher mmr as long as it has a win rate above 50%

i dont get how you cant understand that such a huge difference in the number of matches played is vital in determining your MMR but i suppose good job telling to lil criers and whiners of this forum what they want to hear and good job ruining matches of newbies by stomping them with a new account

Aww, another one doesn’t know how mmr works, MMR is not connected with amount of games and wins, but whom you win and how much MMR you ll get for your win.

sure, every person who gets rekt in sapphire-ruby tier has the perfect idea how MMR works and legend players are totally clueless about it

Wow am in saphire ?

Lexander.4579:

if you have several thousands matches played on main and just a hundred on your alt your main will have by far higher mmr as long as it has a win rate above 50%

i dont get how you cant understand that such a huge difference in the number of matches played is vital in determining your MMR but i suppose good job telling to lil criers and whiners of this forum what they want to hear and good job ruining matches of newbies by stomping them with a new account

Aww, another one doesn’t know how mmr works, MMR is not connected with amount of games and wins, but whom you win and how much MMR you ll get for your win.

Dojo.1867:

“the problem starts, when your team mates are below average you are average and facing average in that division”

When you are average you should not progress. You reached your proper division if you have the skill level of the average player in that division.

That’s basically why the system is flawed, buddy, because it’s mix of grind(pip)/MMR system. In LoL when you are bronze, you always face average while being average and having average team mates. Yet you are able to progress, because you are progressing in skill term. Got it ? Here you don’t progress, because you are average, having average enemies and team mates below average.

Why do you think i m even bad ? It’s fail system on paper. I haven’t go issues with my progress. But i want quality matches, when my enemies are not bad, and my team mates are not bad.