(edited by Raek.8504)
I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.
Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.
Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.
What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.
And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.
It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?
Your example doesn’t work because most games are won by good rotations not just mechanical skill. Good rotations and teamplay require experience – you will get that experience only by doing pvp. A LOT of it. A person that have done a lot of pvp matches does have stable mmr. A person with very few pvp games does not have that experience and frankly doesn’t deserve to be in higher divisions until he learns how to play on pvp maps.
Your rotation to far means zero if you can’t kill anyone 1v1. If 5 k matches is low to understand something in this limited game ? Give me a break. I m not discussing my experience, it’s fine by me. Thou i can imagine how it affects people less experienced in PvP.
I am talking about that imaginary guy with amazing mechanical skill. You said he doesn’t have many matches.
Also why the hell would you rotate to far that is already capped by enemy and there is someone defending it (unless it is a thief) ?
You are at close, your team looses mid, u don’t go and suicide there, but you for example push far for 1v1 u win you get a cap team desingage the fight to close/far.
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I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.
Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.
Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.
What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.
And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.
It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?
Your example doesn’t work because most games are won by good rotations not just mechanical skill. Good rotations and teamplay require experience – you will get that experience only by doing pvp. A LOT of it. A person that have done a lot of pvp matches does have stable mmr. A person with very few pvp games does not have that experience and frankly doesn’t deserve to be in higher divisions until he learns how to play on pvp maps.
Your rotation to far means zero if you can’t kill anyone 1v1. If 5 k matches is low to understand something in this limited game ? Give me a break. I m not discussing my experience, it’s fine by me. Thou i can imagine how it affects people less experienced in PvP.
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And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.
See this right there is just an unrealistic scenario. Why? Because there are no 1500 MMR players left to get matched vs 1200. If this was the case they would constantly win (because their teammates are 1500 MMR aswell) and climb out of this pip range.
What you describe is a very real problem in the first two or three weeks of the season but it gets more and more neglectable. At some point if you are REALLY stuck at a certain division then you belong there.
It is just hard to accept for people and easier to blame matchmaking. It is true. They need to work on those first few weeks to reduce lopsided matches but right now this effect pretty much doesn’t exist anymore.
That’s not the case, this season start of with people artificially bumping lowering/increasing everyone else MMR when everyone started of within the same bracket and tier guards existing.
I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.
Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.
Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.
What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.
And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.
It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?
(edited by Raek.8504)
I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??
Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.
Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.
Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.
At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?
Out of curiosity I have 3 questions for you based on the bold underline part of your reply.
1)When you say your MMR became abysmal what do you mean by “abysmal”?
2)How is it logical to say having trash teammates make carrying easy?
3)Why are you so sure your case is representative of others?
Those “trash” teammates of his are people with the closest MMR to him in the league. He doesn’t even understand how the matchmaking works so attempting to discuss something he doesn’t understand isn’t going to get anyone anywhere. We have all these people that claim they are carrying people that are the same MMR level as themselves which is a ludicrous idea. Hey these people are about the same skill level as me but Im doing all the work! Also, they have no clue how MMR works it doesn’t magically become abysmal it would take an insane amount of losses compared to wins to drop your MMR significantly once its established like hundreds of games or being really bad if you have a few thousands games played. Also, you don’t even take a MMR hit on a loss if the other side had higher MMRs. Its just a crying fest with almost no basis in reality and its getting boring all these MMR hell nonsense posts and thats what they are 100% nonsense.
Sure if you have no clue how MMR works too, if you would you would stop trolling.
People crying on forum because they want quality matches at least. Which does not happen most of the times in this season.
Basically, there is already a problem in your statement “you can carry if you have bad team mates, but your enemies are bad too”. Thing system doesn’t deliver is balanced matches with the same skill between teammates and enemies, where progress is not involved. Imagine you having those bad teammates and enemies which are on the same level as you ? Will u be able to progress ? Never.
And system works around the way, that you, yourself by carrying bads create unbalance in matchmaking, for example, you can carry few bads then another one carry those bads, etc, with little amount of luck they end up being somewhere in diamond, screwing up balanced matches by their presence, they will end up in legendary, by paying to get carried, screwing MM even further.
(edited by Raek.8504)
I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??
Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.
Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.
Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.
At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?
Dno, there are many warriors who did it to leg with warrior only, you are just crappy warrior.
If you want to resolve the issue of “I think I am good enough”, post your PvP API key for analysis. Anything short of that is just conjecture.
There’s a reason nobody ever does this when I say it. It shows the truth they don’t want to have to face.
I ll do for fun i haven’t yet finished with this acc, but tell me what do you see xD
EC8E4282-9838-424C-BC69-1DDC18DC00A969477A08-A5FB-4655-9680-06EC623C0841
It does exist, and I went over that with rdjudicator( someone who actually understand glicko 2). It wouldn’t exist if lower players weren’t stacked together against high, or if a 50/50 scenario or pip ( no MMR included) was implemented. And I am not going to go over it; if you want more info check the legend times queue thread.
So basically what i said. It’s not MMR hell because those matches in Glicko 2 wouldn’t have happened at the first place. That’s why MMR hell does not exist.
It’s special to GW2 because of grind/mmr systems working together. Don’t muddle those 2. Because they are different.
I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??
Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.
Yeah, i can read, and i know that this system is crap. But MMR hell does not exist. It’s GW only hell because of safeguards does exist.
What disturbs me is the reactionary mindset. People “belong” in lower tiers and aren’t good enough to advance? I’m seeing quite a few posters maintain this in the face of any argument or evidence.
But there is an argument to be made. We all know how the system should work.. and there is evidence that it does indeed work.
For example, if you compare player quality in legendary/diamond league with sapphire or emerald you will witness without a doubt a major difference in skill level. And that is the main purpose of the current system.On the other hand, as you say aptly, reactionary mindset claims that the system doesn’t work and for that they offer anecdotal evidence and personal views..
For example, there’s another thread on front page where another person is complaining about the matchmaking, and provided a screenshot of him running an extremely sub-par build and having an atrocious win rate (below 40% IIRC).
Worse still, when he was confronted about these things he maintained his original stance while showing profound lack of knowledge about the game mode itself.
I’m almost positive that said person will continue with his crusade on matchmaking without ever taking a break and asking himself if there might be some other culprit for his current predicament.
Here is some kind of mathematical proof why this system acts this way. When it has something to do with skill in certain scenarios sometimes it doesn’t. Quality of Games in Diamond/ early Legendary from my experience is somewhere around Sapphire, Ruby.
Well it’s not MMR hell, but the fact that you are teamed up with people who shouldt be in your devision. I had similar expirince in diamond somewhere 2 weeks ago. Some people teamed up to overcome it within their pip range. I went ultra try hard mode.
Basically what system wants you to be now is effectify be 60% of a team.
There are 2 options:
1. remove MMR as a factor in Matchmaking and base it on PIPs only, it’s grind system when MM takes into account pips.
2. going back to Leader boards, with some improvements if people want something which they can name. Something like 1000-1100 Amber rating. 1100-1200 Emerald rating. Top 1000 Legendary or w/e.
We have mix of both. That’s why the system we currently have is bad. I m for Leader boards thou.
Here basically our leagues in nutshell. He is better in English then i am, maybe u ll get it, maybe not. Again, i don’t whine that i m stuck or on huge winning or loosing streak. But the thing is, i care a bit for GW to see it’s flaws, instead of saying just “git gud” or what ever.
GW2 isnt a special snowflake, MMR like that works here, people just cant accept negative feedback in a carebear game.
Won’t quote everything you said. That’s basically the point, it doesn’t. Since you don’t know how it works in any another game you named. Any further discussion with you is kinda meaningless, you are getting explained, all you can say is “nope” “i m right”. Okay. The point is i can prove that it works not like in any other game and you don’t.
Problem that, a lot of people are hypocrites, people who soloQed last season and was on high mmr has fought for every pip in amber roflmao, and qqed that they can’t carry bads, guess what ? Now they shouldn’t, everyone else should do it thou.
It amazes me how many people in this thread have never once played another competitive game. DOTA2, LoL, CSGO, etc. All of these games use MMR and put you in a team where the only consideration is the W/L at the end, yet good players seem to always do well in all these games. DO YOU THINK ITS ALL LUCK?
If you blame every loss on teammates and the system for why you can’t advance then you need to grow up. Full stop.
After a bunch of games played there is only ONE constant, YOU!. It isnt that hard to understand really. All of the people saying that you cannot carry a team by yourself are missing the big picture, over a long string of games, if you are actually better than teammates/opponents on average then you will slowly advance upward. If you are not, then you won’t.
The MMR+MM system literally cannot put you on “bad teams” against “good teams” every game. Remember there is another team in the game and they can try and say the same exact thing about your team, making both points totally moot.“The ship of failure floats on a sea of excuses.”
Rofl, so you still don’t get it ? In GW system you can’t fall, u can fall in all other games LOL DOTA CS, you can’t fall with in divisions in GW2, and system matches players not like in dota/lol/cs:go. In DOTA LOL CS go is purely MMR based ladder, so every 1000 MMR team with 1000 MMR players will be facing the same team, the matches of 1000 MMR vs 1700 MMR team should not happen and don’t happen at all in those games.
We had no:
1. MMR reset.
2. MMR through time artificially increased/decreased due to 50/50 % system. When random Joe could take a game from GLOBAL elite (CS:GO parallel) and increase his MMR significantly lol.
3. IN CS/DOTA/LOL GLOBAL elites doesn’t start with Silvers and everyone else when season starts.
4. In all other games pvp player pool is not as small as in GW 2.
It’s like you people don’t even understand the subject you arguing about because it’s just on paper fail system. Sure Pros are on their place yeah, they always had highest MMR possible in that crap game, as well as they are so good, so can carry them self with new acc, i can do it too, so what ? This system doesn’t work, just because MMR is no longer the representation of players skill. Lol.
And in the end, i don’t even make excuses, lol, i want quality matches only, to have fun and challenge and this system delivers none only on my alt accounts, i got my wings, i don’t give 2 fingers about legendary. All i want is, to jump into the game and have teammates who is on my level as well as opponents. You trolls can’t even get it, you always think someone whines just because he is not “gud” enough.
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What they call by stuck it doesn’t necessary means they can’t win games at all, sure they ll end up by having good team mates, but after that they have to again get them and again and again, up until the point they are out, but with hilarious part, of that so called “hell” it’s rather often when u defeat someone who was even worse then your team, they somehow turns out to be higher MMR team in that match up and you end up on their side. So basically you won and got someone even worse xD
Inb4 ques are filled with ambers…. Can’t wait. But yeah, most of the times MMR doesn’t reflect the skill itself, as i m on leg on 2 accs and working towards 3rd now which is atm diamond t6 so Anet screwed up rather hard.
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Btw, that last phrase “pvp should be for fun” is exactly the kind of attitude good pvp players dont have.
Now I have seen it all. Roflmao.
You’ve seen a pro player after loosing say “ahh… its just a game… its just for fun anyway… lets just not change anything and do the same thing next time… it will work then”
I havent. Please post.
So everyone who is not pro, actually bad at this game? If pvp is not fun for someone he ll just move on lol.
Btw, that last phrase “pvp should be for fun” is exactly the kind of attitude good pvp players dont have.
Now I have seen it all. Roflmao.
Stopped reading after Mesmer 1v1 it’s kitten solo q, you don’t know kitten about this Mesmer. I left Dh 1v1 thief once I ll never do it again, I left necro to stomp Mesmer, he auto attacked clone with scpeter and died from confusion.
You can’t tell them “we desingage” they sometimes doesn’t notice pings kitten kitten.
Why ? True pros can carry no ?
Many keep saying that blowout games happen because MMR is not sorted out yet. But after a while the effects of the MMR reset will go away, everyone will move to their divison indicative of their skill level and we get more balanced games. We are well into the season now and the thing still happens a lot. I think we should be looking for an other explanation…
They have not reseted MMR omg.
That thought is inherently flawed… players CANT drop down to their position in ladder as soon as they hit ruby. They are stuck there even though they are NOT good enough for it.
They should just stop playing, which they dont… they get carried to some wins, slowly creeping their way into diamond, which gets even more horrid for them.
Thats the result of a grindable ladder. Has been pointed out in season1, has been pointed out in season2… maybe anet will finally admit to kittening it up and remove division lock in ruby in season3.
Not entirely true. But close yeah.
Yep, finally someone who is not potato. In terms of “GET GUD” in some cases it’s equivalent of being “slightly” better then ESL player in terms of carrying.
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Of course it’s still possible to reach Diamond/Legend if you’re bad, I talked about some of the issues in my original post.
Algorithms don’t take your personal skill progress into account. Eventually, once you get better and get some wins, your MMR will start rising. Add to it the fact that (as I’ve mentioned numerous time) the people you’ve been losing against move on to higher divisions and get replaced by new ones that are most likely going to be easier for you to beat. It really doesn’t take more than simple logical thinking to grasp this.
Sure it doesn’t that the freaking point XD. It’s like i can explain and waste my time. But then you will have nothing to say and another smart boy will walk in and say about how casual and easy it is and everyone just need to git gud. I kitten know how easy it is. But the problem has nothing to do with it.
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Footage showing the “I deserv legent but mmr hell kitten da systm!” people.
Nice one. Did he say that he deserv legent ?
I don’t get why people are assuming they should be able to get the legendary backpack even if they don’t have the skill level to get to legendary or, worse, diamond. Again, not everyone gets the trophy in a competitive game mode.
Hm then i have to ask:
Legendary players need incentive like gold, special reward track to even play PvP because of que times, because of MM system, which you say rather well separate good ones from bad once.
Then you have PVE players who are there for backpiece, but it’s time gated, there is another legendary back, i don’t know it’s name but Anet haven’t implemented them yet for what ever reason, so they have no choice but to play pvp. And playing pvp is not fun for them. Most of them will be out when they will get it.
Here is question thou pvp population is small which makes any ideas of how to improve it, rejected because of 1 argument “population is too small to implement this, to implement that”. But you think it’s cool to further shrink it and turn away people from it ? because for majority pvp is not fun, rage, toxity, people burning out.
Plus to that because of clown showdown in s1, those wings doesn’t have value of being something prestigious, because who really wanted them hard, smurfed, tanked mmr and have them too.
I m not on anyone’s side and no i m not stuck – this is just a question.
i dont like defending revs, coz i think its really powerful skill but u can tell when a rev switch weapons, its also one of the first skill the use upon switching.
Only bad revs will be this predictable.
i might be wrong, but why would a rev, switch to staff during fight? either they use skill 5 to CC, or skill 3 to disengage. dont tell me a rev would rather AA me with staff than AA with s/sh?
To drill u into the wall ?
How they can fix a system ? I mean they said that legendary que takes into account every legendary prestige.
Of course, I should just save all my dodges for when they switch to staff and spam them until they leave staff.
Nah, you should be better then this, you should predict them swapping to staff within the animation of UA.
should someone be banned for tanking or losing their games intentionally? some poor amber players whos trying to climb division will be paired with u.
Already on a tanked account. So I m not tanking anyone, I guess.
The strange thing thou, people in amber right now are way more friendly then anyone I ve seen in this game. I think I ll just scrap the idea. Just can’t take away the games from people who say. Good luck have fun. Thanks for the game.
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The reason they did it is so that "better"players climb up divisions faster. In theory it is great idea, in reality not so much if you take human factor in account. People don’t like to lose, also probably nobody is willing to get farmed for weeks so divisions balance out. That is why i suggested to add placement matches at begin of the season so “better” players get placed in higher divisions right away.
If the match making really works like this, then it is beyond stupidity. The vast majority of gamers around the world want to have a sense of fairness. Sports and game spectators around the world want to have a sense of fairness. Gamers hate the idea that big part of the their games are decided by in advance by giving the other side unfair advantage.
Now imagine a sports analogue:
Let’s put Serena Williams and Roger Federer in 1 team and match them against Mr and Mr Average who play tennis every 2nd Sunday. Of course the 1st would win, but what fun would the win be for them? And the audience would feel cheated and might turn their pity towards the losers.A LOT of damage is already done. Arenanet can still fix part of this by:
A) introducing purely MMR 50/50 based match making it more like Season 1 (the code is there and I am sure most of the great players are already in legendary so this won’t hurt them)
or
B) scrap MMR and match only purely based on division pip range, meaning that you have in the long run even chance of getting both good and bad players from the division range.This should be done immediately as the longer this continues, the less players will be left.
50/50 matchmaking was bad, it made leagues just a glorified farmable reward track and had nothing to do with skill at all
it should be based on division/pip range, idk why they didn’t do it (assuming they also change emerald/sapphire so you can lose tiers there)
Well depends.
That it is dilemma actually.
Spvp population is rather small. So creating real competitive environments is close to impossible. Because everything ll always go down to “population” “que times” arguments.
So it’s either make the majority happy, and big guys will still have their espurt/scrims to have equal games.
Or you keep the leagues as they are now. With some added rewards. To please the competitive. Witness more whine. And population shrinking.
It’s easy to forsee.
Well solutions ?
Solution number 1 which pleases majority of player base.
Getting back to s1 model, where everyone can enjoy their matches and have progression in it. Something with smurfing should be done too. Wings are good, but it’s not enough to keep people interested for long time. Add league specific reward track with fluff etc.
Majority happy, a lot of people play ranked.
Solution number 2. Scrap Leagues, get back to Leaderboards and Matchmaking purely based on MMR remove rewards and move it into unranked/reward track.
Minority happy, Majority happy.
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My problem is more than a simple skill/mechanic advises, also I’m way above average as map awareness, and strategic movement.
I’m EU and only Sapphire so the real problem is that my teammates dies like flies most of the time.
Today I played games with the engineer (scrapper-power hammer build) but no matter where I tried to help they just lost horribly on the other CapPoint. 3 games in a row.
at the end game had Top heals to allies, top cleanse to allies, top boons to allies, this 3 tops are acceptable, but also top damage!!!!!
What apps are good for video_caps. Fraps not the best option for me, the game itself became laggy I don’t know why. I also want some replays so I can study my mistakes.
I use Shadow Play by Nvidea. Doesn’t get laggy for me at least.
Not sure if troll, but if not here.
Thing people don’t tend to say. Your mechanical skills are lacking. I don’t know why, maybe because of FPS, but they are lacking. Decision making is really slow. Overall game knowledge too.
The thing i can advise about at least game knowledge, read all traits tooltips, utility skills tooltips, try to understand why they are even used, after that think when is the best time to use them. When you die try to look at what actually killed you. So you can find a way with current tools not to get killed by the same thing again.
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I really wish ppl who complain about being stuck in lower divisions due to “bad teams” would post videos of their games. Something tells me their teams aren’t only reason they are losing.
Are you that guy who has been rushing into mid again, again and again solo vs 3 ? Somewhere mid diamond ? Sfxas or smth like that revenant ?
I wish people who say git gud make those kind of vids to get a good laugh at.
I play thief…….. i never played rev mid diamond
i do think that it would be helpful if people complaining about matchmaking would post videos, i am sure there is plenty of things they could improve
Strange, his id was Cynz xD
I did play rev for achieve but not mid diamond lol
And generally if i do end up in 1v3 situation regardless the class i play it is usually because that point was open, my team wiped and enemy zerged me. But surely continue to spit your salt, i may have vial for it.
Am i ? I was on winning team lol. You was a burden to your team sadly. Few guys from there wasn’t so bad. For “Mid diamond” sorry i was there at the moment i have no idea where you was. And no, you went mid, when your team tried to play side points u rushed into us and died. It was not open.
So advice to you, don’t make those kind of plays.
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Yes. Please do this. I assume you are at legendary on your main account and are trying to prove that the matchmaking didn’t unfairly favor you.
Yes. I mean, this isn’t a bragging post. I’m actually curious myself. I want to know if its possible to progress if someone starts at bottom MMR.
Yeah, possible.
Kinda making the same thing right now xD First game so far, 4 beast vs Home Mid skipped beast. Good thing i can be in 2 places simultaneously.
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I really wish ppl who complain about being stuck in lower divisions due to “bad teams” would post videos of their games. Something tells me their teams aren’t only reason they are losing.
Are you that guy who has been rushing into mid again, again and again solo vs 3 ? Somewhere mid diamond ? Sfxas or smth like that revenant ?
I wish people who say git gud make those kind of vids to get a good laugh at.
I play thief…….. i never played rev mid diamond
i do think that it would be helpful if people complaining about matchmaking would post videos, i am sure there is plenty of things they could improve
Strange, his id was Cynz xD
I really wish ppl who complain about being stuck in lower divisions due to “bad teams” would post videos of their games. Something tells me their teams aren’t only reason they are losing.
Are you that guy who has been rushing into mid again, again and again solo vs 3 ? Somewhere mid diamond ? Sfxas or smth like that revenant ?
I wish people who say git gud make those kind of vids to get a good laugh at.
The only fook that had balls to do 100% soloq to legend in season one and 100% soloq on F2P account in season two, thinks is so good at rekin peepz he decided to go from amber to legend in one stream, if its possible in 24-36 hrs it will be done.
https://www.twitch.tv/leet0
No rats.- |TCG| Leeto
Yeah! At least you can show that you don’t bring your friends in your party to leech their high MMR for you!
Have fun grinding the next 180 games to proof that the system help all HIGH MMR players to have easy games.
True, seems good players get less unfavoured matchups. However these same people can get to legend without HoT, team queue, and with starting at the basic MMR to begin the climb, no “high MMR carry” there.
Because of this, I can’t really see tanked, low MMR being an impossible barrier to overcome if you learn your class and rotations adequately.
Just a general tip to those still dissatisfied with their rank: Try all the meta carry-lord builds, learn what fights/matchups your build thrives in, actively seek them out in games, rotate efficiently, and watch the Pips roll in.
Ok here :
1. If you start as skilled player with average MMR, the thing which will happen, the system will find you possible best players within pip range since if there are still people who struggling through amber ( i doubt it ). In amber 1 player is enough to carry game. So you go on winning streak, your MMR increases, then it happens again and again and again. Basically u rush through devisions with best possible team mates in certain pip range because of how your fresh MMR acts. And still 1 person of ESL level can decide the outcome.
2. Tanked account is a bit different but still possible.
3. The main issues with those accounts and how they act will feel somewhere around Legendary, where the skill difference is NOT AS huge. As team composition, communication, quality of team mates will decide the outcome.
4. This system. Is a FREE ride for players who knows how to play and have already good MMR which further increases their chances. The way how it works on opposite side is the same as Pro players faced in season 1 when solo Q for them wasn’t even an option.
I’m curious if anyone who is a better than average player is stuck in emerald, or if it’s a vocal minority of inexperienced players who think they’re better than they are (Dunning Kruger ).
Is there anyone who is in that situation that can somehow show the community that they are indeed a good player (perhaps community tournament wins, a 65% win ratio over thousands of games, YT highlights, etc.)?
Let’s ignore ruby because that is where most players are supposed to wind up.
Hopefully this isn’t seen as an attempt to belittle anyone, I honestly wonder if anyone has fallen through the cracks or if people are just upset they can’t climb higher than their skill and experience allows.
What does it mean ? What is the measure of Above average in current term ? Being in certain division in this season ? Or subjectional judgment from experts on this forum ?
MMR is a fairer representation of your skill than your enemy pip range.
IS MMR Perfect? No.
Is it better than random team? Yes.
I deleted the explanation. In essence, we agree on the point that mmr is not a fair representation of the skill of all players although we have a different reasoning.
I tend to disagree with your random team to a certain extent. A league is a form of ranking. mmr is a form of ranking. What we currently have are both forms of ranking which influence the team-making.
What you suggest (if I got it right) is to make the leagues redundant (as last season). I suggest making the mmr redundant (which means random teams at the beginning) since the league position is visible and observable. However, either solution should solve the problem.
Edit: Forgot to mention that the league then has to be adjusted, e.g. dependend on the previous season you start in division 1,2 or 3, and the introduction of new division(s).
What they should do, is scrap leagues entirely, pips and stuff are just fluff.
What i would like to see it’s something like in Leaderboards with rating rather then pips and leagues.
Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose. More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.
Yes okay.
But here let’s assume.
You are predicted winner in the match.
Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.
Will the system punish you for that 1 guy DH who losses his 1v1 to a thief ? And then goes afk in predicted win match, when playing side points is only option in this game ? Yes it will.
How hard can you actually carry ?
And button line how actually playing my smurf high volatile accounts with short term high win ratio is a cake walk.
But when playing my main acc it’s like a hitting my head against a wall ?There is no “winner prediction”. Its your MMR team vs MMR team. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you have 50% w/l, you are standing at your rank.
The new league with division of season 1, was having great match but artificial RANKED. The Rank should be like in the old time (2014 or less) not based on wins.
“Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.”
BS. I can carry bad players versus good team, if I got 3 competent guy with me. Guaranteed. Because your other team, stack the same. (except at the very top, like 1 to 200 old leaderboard system were you need to stack 5 great guyz— that didn’t play meta because the classes balances was way better than HoT dumbing down trait line and attributes)
For the other questions you got… yeah go Troll away.
Skill based or Grind based ranked system will all get the same problems you described… but… if you reach a good SKILL level of play and are match MMR vs MMR, I assured you the bad DC, bad attitudes or stuff like that are way behind you.
From my experiences, the RANK player of old leaderboard system (top 1000) were good enough to make good matches without all the problems you related.
What you ASK about, the problems you speak about are seen in MMR hell. It existed in 2013, in 2014 and it exist today.
The new league system season 2, is harder for MMR hell than before.
I was mainly talking about current system, and the way it finds team mates for me? How come is it even good. With the above mentioned.
I don’t even Troll. Lol.
I m up for pure MMR based ladder. But how come the MMR is flawless if i m getting those people.
Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose. More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.
Yes okay.
But here let’s assume.
You are predicted winner in the match.
Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.
Will the system punish you for that 1 guy DH who losses his 1v1 to a thief ? And then goes afk in predicted win match, when playing side points is only option in this game ? Yes it will.
How hard can you actually carry ?
And button line how actually playing my smurf high volatile accounts with short term high win ratio is a cake walk.
But when playing my main acc it’s like a hitting my head against a wall ?
(edited by Raek.8504)
Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.
Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.
Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.
Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?
This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.
There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.
Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.
I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.
The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.
Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)
How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.
Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.
With the absolute lack of incentive and progression after legend considering the horrible “leaderboard” (if one could call it that) etc. Then there are other problems such as super long queue times after prestige 1 and such, which is likely due to the previous issue in combination with some other factors.
Okay thanks, i still don’t get it. Please explain.
There is WoW which is more competitive and popular then GW 2 pvp will ever be, and there is no rewards attached further you move in the rating (above 2200). Which is gained rather quickly within a season by Pro players.
Basically everyone who plays PvP nowadays need a reward to PvP in the first place ? Only i do see issue with it ?
Wow actually has rewards for that. teams that end first gets something special ( a title ), whereas first in leaderboard in GW2 gets nothing for it.
Also getting gladiator in wow arenas is a lot more difficult and represent a lot less people than legendary in GW2. Gladiator is 0.5%; Arenanet don’t gives stats but I expect the ù of legendary players to be a lot higher than that.
Then relate some special title to prestige x smth. Fixed ? But for that, you need:
Teamq only.
MMR based ladder.
Total MMR reset.
Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.
Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.
Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.
Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?
This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.
There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.
Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.
I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.
The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.
Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)
How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.
Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.
With the absolute lack of incentive and progression after legend considering the horrible “leaderboard” (if one could call it that) etc. Then there are other problems such as super long queue times after prestige 1 and such, which is likely due to the previous issue in combination with some other factors.
Okay thanks, i still don’t get it. Please explain.
There is WoW which is more competitive and popular then GW 2 pvp will ever be, and there is no rewards attached further you move in the rating (above 2200). Which is gained rather quickly within a season by Pro players.
Basically everyone who plays PvP nowadays need a reward to PvP in the first place ? Only i do see issue with it ?
Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.
Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.
Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.
Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?
This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.
There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.
Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.
I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.
The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.
Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)
How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.
Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.