Guild Wars 2

Jourdelune.7456:

The idea of a PVE or WvW item that can’t be get anywhere else than spvp, is to bring more people into the game mode.

Funny thing is the way the system is set up is turning more people off pvp once they play it. If the reward achievements were a simple grind which takes a long time but is simply a steady accumulation of achievements it would be far better and less rage inducing. Because it is tied to division gain and because of the inconsistency of matchmaking and players constantly backsliding within tiers, psychologically it becomes incredibly wearing.

Consider we’re not even halfway through the year of ranked pvp yet I and a lot of people I know will probably give up pvp after this because the system makes us hate it.

shrek.1046:

Jourdelune.7456:

The idea of a PVE or WvW item that can’t be get anywhere else than spvp, is to bring more people into the game mode.

Funny thing is the way the system is set up is turning more people off pvp once they play it. If the reward achievements were a simple grind which takes a long time but is simply a steady accumulation of achievements it would be far better and less rage inducing. Because it is tied to division gain and because of the inconsistency of matchmaking and players constantly backsliding within tiers, psychologically it becomes incredibly wearing.

Consider we’re not even halfway through the year of ranked pvp yet I and a lot of people I know will probably give up pvp after this because the system makes us hate it.

QFT. I was originally aiming foe the legendary back item. But I know now I’ll never get it as there is no way I’ll ever get to diamond for the achievement. So my aim is not to get the ascended back as quickly as possible so I can never play ranked again. A game mode should never make players feel this way. Sure you can’t keep everyone happy, but if it hits the point that people are contemplating never playing in a league again, you’ve failed.

A lot of people in my guild have hit ruby and stopped, bar for the 3 match daily. When this is the only reason people are playing, and don’t care if the win or lose, just as long as they get there 3 matches out of the way as quickly as possible, you are doing something wrong.

The current system isn’t based on Skill. That’s complete bullkitten.
It’s based on winning. Winning doesn’t take skill, winning simply takes class imbalance.

Whenever I join a match I check my team. If I see at least 2 imbalanced classes, I know I’m on the winning team.
If I only see one, it’s going to be a tight race.
If I don’t see one, I know I’m going to be farmed.

I see no skill what-so-ever in this matchmaking system.
The most important factor in the league is Pips. If you really wanted to impact the skill level or at least the teamplay rewards for players, then there needs to be a way to NOT lose a Pip.
Things like, losing while on a winning streak shouldn’t lose a pip, but simply lose the winnings streak.
Or, in a losing team you still retain your pip if you manage to get above ~180 in score.
If you still held your own, if you still fought to the bitter end, You should still be rewarded.

The system now doesn’t incentives fighting a losing battle. If anything it gives incentive to lose faster, rather then trying to keep fighting.
If everyone knew they could still fight to keep a pip? everyone would still keep fighting. even if they were getting farmed by the other team.
The way the game is now, you can clearly see which team is going to win from the first tussle at the mid-point. I’ve seen a few turn arounds, but they are very far between, and I’m pretty sure the league system that only rewards winning is the issue.
When losing players keep getting farmed, and keeps seeing the same pattern of imbalanced classes wiping them out.. what incentive do they have of even leaving the spawn? They’ll lose anyway.. why even run out to be farmed?
Fighting to NOT lose a pip would give incentive to lose with dignity and improve your game.

That, imo, would add skill to the leagues. A good player, in a bad team, would still rise to his proper level. Instead of getting penalized by other peoples mistakes or a bad matchmaking system.
Instead of just lucking out with imbalanced teammates, or changing to the OP of the week class.

But why should they even get the backpack without earning it with their skill?

We all know people want the backback to look like great PvP’ers but if you aren’t then why should you have it? Whenever we lose it is always our fault, for we could always have done something better. True mastery of the self requires of us to weed out these mistakes.

Evan Lesh.3295:

make the ladder more prestigious

Prestigious? Is that what its called called….. ( see picture)

You can’t be that clueless.

Or the other game i just had, 5 diamond vs 3 ruby 2 diamond. Give you one guess who wont that game.

Please go ahead and tell us more prestigious jokes, because Ruby is $%#ing hilarious.

Well I just had a 5 diamond vs 2 diamond + 3 ruby.
It was myself and a friend on the duo diamond side.

We win 500v473- we were carrying those Ruby’s hard.
We were both near t2 diamond – match was silent storm.

Some matches can be very interesting and it’s possible to carry hard with a friend.
The Ruby’s on our side were dying easily despite playing meta classes.

Dyze.1580:

The system now doesn’t incentives fighting a losing battle. If anything it gives incentive to lose faster, rather then trying to keep fighting.

Funny, people told Anet that this would happen but they still went through with it. You used to not lose a pip if the game was close. Not anymore though.

Agemnon.4608:

But why should they even get the backpack without earning it with their skill?

We all know people want the backback to look like great PvP’ers but if you aren’t then why should you have it? Whenever we lose it is always our fault, for we could always have done something better. True mastery of the self requires of us to weed out these mistakes.

True, but taking responsibility for four other players doesn’t make sense. If everyone isn’t following this same logic, it simply won’t work, but I do think that if you’re good enough, you can carry. It just takes playing the right class/spec and knowing how to play well enough, but even then it’s a gamble as you can’t be a puppet master to 4 other people who could just be feeding them kills.

Agemnon.4608:

But why should they even get the backpack without earning it with their skill?

We all know people want the backback to look like great PvP’ers but if you aren’t then why should you have it? Whenever we lose it is always our fault, for we could always have done something better. True mastery of the self requires of us to weed out these mistakes.

It is all cute an good to think like that, and I’m all for always striving to do better and improving but there are limits. If you think you can become so good that you can tell the 4 others they can just sit and watch you I think you need to see a doctor. And if you could win all by yourself, somehow, I would investigate what kind of supreme loosers you were facing. We aren’t in some bullkitten Hollywood movies kitten .

Fun fact aside, I won more matches today playing vs all diamonds by pairing with just another diamond than I could by soloquing vs bad rubies. Our teams made several bad mistakes and we lost some pretty sad matches but overall it was FAR easier and far better matches than what I’m served when I soloq in ruby. Absolutely Z-E-R-O comparisons whatsoever. To those that think the system work and that there is no loopholes for low and aveage MMR pl in ruby I say stop smoking weed now.

THIS is EXACTLY the problem. I am first tear Sapphire and my team has THREE Emerald versus FOUR Sapphire. Almost NO chance of winning. How does this make ANY sense?

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

THIS is EXACTLY the problem. I am first tear Sapphire and my team has THREE Emerald versus FOUR Sapphire. Almost NO chance of winning. How does this make ANY sense?

You are first tier sapphire. So you have the chance of being matches with and against emeralds.

I wonder if all the people complaining here have posted gameplay vids.

This, for me, is why Ruby makes me hate this game atm. I started my day at T5 Ruby and this is what I have gotten since I got on today. As a player, regardless of skill level, this is not fun. This will make you want to play another game.

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

THIS is EXACTLY the problem. I am first tear Sapphire and my team has THREE Emerald versus FOUR Sapphire. Almost NO chance of winning. How does this make ANY sense?

Jesus christ dude

Matchmaking is largely pip based, you got sapphires because they were close to emerald pip wise.

How many times must this be explained to you people?

Kuya.6495:

I wonder if all the people complaining here have posted gameplay vids.

Why would we? So we could have some self proclaimed"pro" that we need to " get good" and “carry more” please. Take the arrogance somewhere else.

And the next match I get two Sapphire versus three Sapphire. And we crushed them. The only explanation was the best Emeralds where paired against the worst I guess. Either that or the MMR is so wrong the system cannot possibly pick a fair fight.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Nobody should ever feel “stuck.” EVER. There is nothing positive about being stuck. If the goal is that it is intended for players to get into Ruby and get “stuck,” then you should just tell them that. Have a message pop up that says:

“You are in Ruby now, which is as far as you’re capable of going. You can stop now because any further effort will be futile.”

Then they can just stop rather than continuing to waste their time in a mode that will never be rewarding for them.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Kuya.6495:

I wonder if all the people complaining here have posted gameplay vids.

Why would we? So we could have some self proclaimed"pro" that we need to " get good" and “carry more” please. Take the arrogance somewhere else.

There’s been at least two occasions that i’ve seen in which players, much like you, claimed they were being paired with terrible teammates and that matchmaking was screwing them over only to see the video and notice that the OP is actually bad too (in one case, the OP was actually the one being carried). Yet the OP was convinced everyone else was kitten and he wasn’t.

Maybe a lot of people complaining about their matches have a serious case of over inflated sense of competence?

Agemnon.4608:

But why should they even get the backpack without earning it with their skill?

Legendaries are earned in this game by grinding and the legendary backpack achievements are essentially a reward track. If they want to make it a reward for say finishing in legendary division, fine. I wouldn’t go for it in that case but I’d still give ranked pvp a go.

Kuya.6495:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Kuya.6495:

I wonder if all the people complaining here have posted gameplay vids.

Why would we? So we could have some self proclaimed"pro" that we need to " get good" and “carry more” please. Take the arrogance somewhere else.

There’s been at least two occasions that i’ve seen in which players, much like you, claimed they were being paired with terrible teammates and that matchmaking was screwing them over only to see the video and notice that the OP is actually bad too (in one case, the OP was actually the one being carried). Yet the OP was convinced everyone else was kitten and he wasn’t.

Maybe a lot of people complaining about their matches have a serious case of over inflated sense of competence?

And that means all ppl complaining have no reason to? How do you explain me getting more wins and better matches (win or loose) today by playing against higher ranked players just because we got a diamond in our team? Our team was almost always of lower rank than the opponent and yet I got my first win streak in days. Not being fed garbage players apparently did a good enough difference for me.

You say maybe a lot who are complaining have a serious case of over inflated sense of competence? I’m seriously starting to thin that maybe a lot of higher rank players also have that problem. None of the diamond I faced today, team or individual, made me say I had no business being there. Quite the opposite. The matches I get in soloq ruby are a lot harder to win than any of those I got today facing all diamonds. And I say that despite having lost pretty sadly some of the matches because it was obvious that it was because we made mistake we could have avoided as opposed to the utter feeling of powerlessness I get in ruby soloq.

Why don’t you post vids of how great you are? Maybe we could lean something from you?

Kuya.6495:

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

THIS is EXACTLY the problem. I am first tear Sapphire and my team has THREE Emerald versus FOUR Sapphire. Almost NO chance of winning. How does this make ANY sense?

Jesus christ dude

Matchmaking is largely pip based, you got sapphires because they were close to emerald pip wise.

How many times must this be explained to you people?

I am not complaining about being matched with Emeralds I am complaining about constantly being matched to LOSE.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Evan, The mmr system currently doesn’t function at all based on skill. It’s more about which team has the most “meta” builds. Even better if you class stack the most in need of fixing (Reaper, Scaper, Dragonhuter, Druid… the Mesmer is pretty op at the moment but at least someone has to know how to use it).

PvP is a mess, mainly because rather than playing Guild Wars it feels much more like we’re playing Dragonball Z. Whoever can say Ka-Mey-Ya-Mey fastest wins. Enough of the power creep already, not everything should be a one-shot kill. It’s killing the game.

Or completey forgot to toss Rev in there… another class that takes about 30 minutes to learn… but once you do it’s basically immortal. It’s gotten to the point where when a match starts, people are just waiting for the clock to go down while changing their character out because if you have a class that hard counters another it’s game over before it’s begun.

Link.1049:

Or completey forgot to toss Rev in there… another class that takes about 30 minutes to learn… but once you do it’s basically immortal. It’s gotten to the point where when a match starts, people are just waiting for the clock to go down while changing their character out because if you have a class that hard counters another it’s game over before it’s begun.

Don’t you still lose pips if you change characters?

PvP league is just big grind fest. With the current division lock system, giving enough time, a completely nubie amber will be able grind him/herself to ruby then ruby once again become amber. PvP league is skilled? NOPE. Just alot of grinding, it isn’t any different from PVE

drgast.1469:

Don’t you still lose pips if you change characters?

You only get dishonored and lose pips if you’re out of the match for longer than 2 minutes, and the pre-match countdown period doesn’t count towards that at all.

Anomaly.7612:

Dyze.1580:

The system now doesn’t incentives fighting a losing battle. If anything it gives incentive to lose faster, rather then trying to keep fighting.

Funny, people told Anet that this would happen but they still went through with it. You used to not lose a pip if the game was close. Not anymore though.

Id love to see that again… not loosing a pip for a close loss just felt more right than this loosing streak mechanic, that just cries for one more loss on purpose. Maybe it could be combined? Winstreak mechanic and not loosing a pip when 400+ was reached against higher mmr team?
But probably it screws with the mmr then.
Which brings me back to my idea to not downadjust mmr so severly, if it was a close (400+) loss against a higher mmr team.

Sins.4782:

drgast.1469:

Don’t you still lose pips if you change characters?

You only get dishonored and lose pips if you’re out of the match for longer than 2 minutes, and the pre-match countdown period doesn’t count towards that at all.

Yeah, but pips are account bound so what’s the point of switching characters? I’m confused as to why you’d switch characters in the pre match period for any reason beyond going to a different profession, which i do all the time.

Kuya.6495:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Kuya.6495:

I wonder if all the people complaining here have posted gameplay vids.

Why would we? So we could have some self proclaimed"pro" that we need to " get good" and “carry more” please. Take the arrogance somewhere else.

There’s been at least two occasions that i’ve seen in which players, much like you, claimed they were being paired with terrible teammates and that matchmaking was screwing them over only to see the video and notice that the OP is actually bad too (in one case, the OP was actually the one being carried). Yet the OP was convinced everyone else was kitten and he wasn’t.

Maybe a lot of people complaining about their matches have a serious case of over inflated sense of competence?

There was this thief yesterday on foefire… that kept going for 1v1 and 2v2 situations, not disengaging when being focused and constantly dieing… even loosing a 1v1 against a hammer rev… in short, he was a pain in my butt
End of match, we dunno… 420, they 440… we hold 2 points and beasts are about to spawn… so I yell at him for him to go steal beast on far and I go close that was being zerged to keep from point getting uncapped and stomps from happening there… and to steal our beast if necessary…
We won… it was close… thief managed to get the beast… thank god…
And then he wrote something along the lines of “I carried you” in teamchat.
He was mostly ballast the whole match, then he does ONE thing right… after I yell at him to do it… and suddenly he’s the reason we won? ^^ I found that hilarious.

So yeah, there really is a lot of ego going around. Nevertheless, there are legitimate problems being pointed out.
Problems like that you cant just “get better” steadily because you get 4 teammates that drag you down and hold you there – if you are lucky.
Or that there is a bottleneck in ruby that drags players down, that most likely belong in diamond due to division lock and winstreak mechanic.
Or that winstreak mechanic places players way ahead of their skill… in pips and mmr.

drgast.1469:

Sins.4782:

drgast.1469:

Don’t you still lose pips if you change characters?

You only get dishonored and lose pips if you’re out of the match for longer than 2 minutes, and the pre-match countdown period doesn’t count towards that at all.

Yeah, but pips are account bound so what’s the point of switching characters? I’m confused as to why you’d switch characters in the pre match period for any reason beyond going to a different profession, which i do all the time.

But he doesnt want you to do that… he checks the teamroster and gets all giddy because he found a profession he can hardcounter… and then that players switches to something that hardcounters HIM ^^
Btw, boys and girls… hardcounter only means that if both players are equally skilled… the hardcountering one will win. If I notice a dh just sitting in his traps and firing longbow…. then I still go for him with my mesmer… and most of the time win… even though dh is one of the most annoying professions to fight as a mesmer.

SoPP.7034:

Evan Lesh.3295:

make the ladder more prestigious

Prestigious? Is that what its called called….. ( see picture)

You can’t be that clueless.

Or the other game i just had, 5 diamond vs 3 ruby 2 diamond. Give you one guess who wont that game.

Please go ahead and tell us more prestigious jokes, because Ruby is $%#ing hilarious.

The 1 pip curse, how I loathe thee

Kuya.6495:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Kuya.6495:

I wonder if all the people complaining here have posted gameplay vids.

Why would we? So we could have some self proclaimed"pro" that we need to " get good" and “carry more” please. Take the arrogance somewhere else.

There’s been at least two occasions that i’ve seen in which players, much like you, claimed they were being paired with terrible teammates and that matchmaking was screwing them over only to see the video and notice that the OP is actually bad too (in one case, the OP was actually the one being carried). Yet the OP was convinced everyone else was kitten and he wasn’t.

Maybe a lot of people complaining about their matches have a serious case of over inflated sense of competence?

Some may do, yes. But the. We only have this system because of the “pro” players crying that in 8 hours they where not in legendary. I don’t know what’s funnier. The average player thinking they are better than they are. Or the “pro” players thinking that because they are better they should get things easier and demanded ANet do something. I’m sorry, but when the system has been made to push “better” players to where they should be, you can’t sit there and tell me that the average player has an over inflated idea of how good they are.

Depending on how many pro players are out there and how many “normal” players, the decision isn’t a hard one to take. The normal players give you more money, Anet. So take the stick out of your rear and fix that system before the pro players are the only ones playing your pvp and complain about endless queue times.

The only viable fix for this trainwreck of a season is … if your team is supposed to win (e.g. its the team with the higher MMR), but instead loses (i’m sure it has happened) the losers should lose so much MMR that they’ll have to win at least 3 to 5 games to get it back.

This way we’ll have equal games midseason. Where every self-proclaimed pro will be placed with the rest of the plebs because they failed getting carried by the MM system. Instead they got what they deserved for being given an opportunity and freaking missing it by a mile.

Also, I would like to suggest removing class dailies while there is active season. Teaming me with people “just for the daily” is stupid. They can get their stupid dailies in unranked but they don’t do it. I’m don’t deserve these kittens in my team. Neither do i deserve to be matched with DHs against 5-man reaper team or 4-man with am ele because it just so happens to be guardian/necro daily winner.

^ This is bullkitten. And it kittenes me a lot more than losing to a flawed matchmaking.

Why am I being matched with the scrubs of the society with 54% winrate (used to be 60% before I started soloQing this season)

At the end of the match , next your : ‘’You have gained 1 PiP!’’ message , there could be 2 additional bonus areas that can be unlocked by paying Silver or any other ingame currency .

In those boxes , there could be randoms ’’values’’ , from -3 PiP to +3 PiP and you can choose between the baseline +1 or any other random value (only after a Winning game) , to boost/demote yourself

If you have joined a party with 2 other ppl , you will unlock +5 bonus areas for free and you can choose the ’’Value’’ you wish for yourself without the RNGjesus .

By having the ability to Promote/Demote yourself in the PiP model , you can farm more easily the rewards when you pass the ‘’Tiers (not Divisions)’’ , or removing/improving yourself from the Tier you think you dont belong (at your risk) .

Each day the system chooses ’’Randomly’’ and highlights an small area in a specific ‘’Tiers (not Divisions)’’ where ppl can ’’farm’’ those rewards (with 15 min cd) .
(Based on the hidden MMR/how well they did , the next day the system will highlight a stronger ‘’Tiers (not Divisions)’’ to farm

Theres a limit per day about how much you can move the Tiers with the -3 or +3 , based around on the ‘’Highlighted Areas’’ that the system have marked

If you use this mechanic (choose an random value , rather than the baseline +1 PiP) the rewards from going back/passing the Tier (70 silver + Dye) , will go in a ’’Pot’’ and after 10 matches you will get ALL The money …..only if you have 60% WinRate on those matches

So:

a) Slowly move up the tiers by using the +1 PiP win

b) Use Random Values Numbers that will help to escape the grip of your Hell-Rank , and using the 1 PiP afterwards (per day) .
Overextending with the +3 trying to pass even further the line , diactivates the system , forcing you to play with the -1/1 for 30 games

c) or Gamble to farm an ‘’Highlighted Area’’ and if you have 60% in those 10 matches you will get 7 gold+ 10 Dyes at the end

d) or Promote yourself to higher Divisions

e) Volunteranly Demote yourself to the LOWEST POINT OF THE -3 PIP CAN REACH, for lower que times , while keeping your dignity by Winning the matches .
Overextending with the 3 trying to reach the Lowest Reach in the Division , willdiactivates the system , forcing you to play with the -1/1 for 90 games

Anomaly.7612:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.

There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.

Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.

I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.

The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.

Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)

How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.

lead.7543:

Jourdelune.7456:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

Yes, you are not the only one that has studied the PVP MM Algorithm and there is nothing in this algorithm that takes your personal actions within a match into consideration. Maybe I am speaking a totally different language to you or you are not listening. This MMR is not based on your individual actions, death, heals, damage dealt, kills, and more in a match per profession. It is not based on that at all. SO looking at the PvP algorithm please explain how a player can actually show he is skilled?

SOME factors that show skill include:
Damage Dealt/Received
Condition Damage Dealt/Received
Conditions Applied
Boons Removed
Boons Applied to Self/Allies
Conditions Removed from Self/Allies
Healing to Self/Allies

Where is this in the PvP MM algorithm?

I challenge you to show how the PVP MM Algorithm shows you are better at 1v1 using a profession than another profession or what you are k/d (or damage output vs damage received or even heal output to damage received) ratio per match is factored in to the algorithm to ascertain your skill. Show how the algorithm calculated for tactics or strategy.

edit
p.s. If you look at you will see me discussing this algorithm with Justin ODell in 2014 under the section penalty system
so… yes you are not the only one that has studied this algorithm.

Those things should never be used for gw2 matchmaking. The degree at which they correlate with skill is unimaginably tiny, If it at all exists.

Quadox.7834:

Anomaly.7612:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.

There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.

Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.

I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.

The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.

Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)

How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.

Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.

Raek.8504:

Quadox.7834:

Anomaly.7612:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.

There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.

Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.

I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.

The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.

Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)

How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.

Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.

With the absolute lack of incentive and progression after legend considering the horrible “leaderboard” (if one could call it that) etc. Then there are other problems such as super long queue times after prestige 1 and such, which is likely due to the previous issue in combination with some other factors.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

So you know what you are doing. In season 1 if a player has 50% winrate he will progress, in season 2 it is impossible.
Generally I don’t mind this system, I have reached diamond and get the backpack already. But I stopped playing pvp like you mentioned there is no incentive.
To be honest, in my opinion, balance, prestige or whatever they all don’t matter, what matters is how you make majority of players happy. Everytime you nerf something, some people will leave,because you take away something they like, simple.

Quadox.7834:

Raek.8504:

Quadox.7834:

Anomaly.7612:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.

There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.

Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.

I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.

The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.

Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)

How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.

Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.

With the absolute lack of incentive and progression after legend considering the horrible “leaderboard” (if one could call it that) etc. Then there are other problems such as super long queue times after prestige 1 and such, which is likely due to the previous issue in combination with some other factors.

Okay thanks, i still don’t get it. Please explain.

There is WoW which is more competitive and popular then GW 2 pvp will ever be, and there is no rewards attached further you move in the rating (above 2200). Which is gained rather quickly within a season by Pro players.

Basically everyone who plays PvP nowadays need a reward to PvP in the first place ? Only i do see issue with it ?

Amineo.8951:

Speaking of Ruby and pips, with 50% winrate, it’s obviously a dice roll until I get win streaks to get out thanks to MMR of course, which promotes tryharding at it’s best.

Why don’t you try to understand how the system works before complaining? There’s no 50% win rate anymore. You get pitched against other people within a certain range of the tier in the division you are in, regardless of their mmr, so you only have a 50% chance to win in the long run, if you are an average player for that tier.

Raek.8504:

Quadox.7834:

Raek.8504:

Quadox.7834:

Anomaly.7612:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.

There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.

Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.

I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.

The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.

Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)

How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.

Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.

With the absolute lack of incentive and progression after legend considering the horrible “leaderboard” (if one could call it that) etc. Then there are other problems such as super long queue times after prestige 1 and such, which is likely due to the previous issue in combination with some other factors.

Okay thanks, i still don’t get it. Please explain.

There is WoW which is more competitive and popular then GW 2 pvp will ever be, and there is no rewards attached further you move in the rating (above 2200). Which is gained rather quickly within a season by Pro players.

Basically everyone who plays PvP nowadays need a reward to PvP in the first place ? Only i do see issue with it ?

Wow actually has rewards for that. teams that end first gets something special ( a title ), whereas first in leaderboard in GW2 gets nothing for it.
Also getting gladiator in wow arenas is a lot more difficult and represent a lot less people than legendary in GW2. Gladiator is 0.5%; Arenanet doesn’t gives stats but I expect the % of legendary players to be a lot higher than that.

Nocta.5274:

Raek.8504:

Quadox.7834:

Raek.8504:

Quadox.7834:

Anomaly.7612:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.

There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.

Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.

I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.

The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.

Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)

How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.

Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.

With the absolute lack of incentive and progression after legend considering the horrible “leaderboard” (if one could call it that) etc. Then there are other problems such as super long queue times after prestige 1 and such, which is likely due to the previous issue in combination with some other factors.

Okay thanks, i still don’t get it. Please explain.

There is WoW which is more competitive and popular then GW 2 pvp will ever be, and there is no rewards attached further you move in the rating (above 2200). Which is gained rather quickly within a season by Pro players.

Basically everyone who plays PvP nowadays need a reward to PvP in the first place ? Only i do see issue with it ?

Wow actually has rewards for that. teams that end first gets something special ( a title ), whereas first in leaderboard in GW2 gets nothing for it.
Also getting gladiator in wow arenas is a lot more difficult and represent a lot less people than legendary in GW2. Gladiator is 0.5%; Arenanet don’t gives stats but I expect the ù of legendary players to be a lot higher than that.

Then relate some special title to prestige x smth. Fixed ? But for that, you need:

Teamq only.
MMR based ladder.
Total MMR reset.

Ohoni.6057:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Nobody should ever feel “stuck.” EVER. There is nothing positive about being stuck. If the goal is that it is intended for players to get into Ruby and get “stuck,” then you should just tell them that. Have a message pop up that says:

“You are in Ruby now, which is as far as you’re capable of going. You can stop now because any further effort will be futile.”

Then they can just stop rather than continuing to waste their time in a mode that will never be rewarding for them.

There are no limits, only plateaus. You must not stay there, you must go beyond them. Is it the matchmaking keeping you in Ruby or are you keeping yourself there?

Dyze.1580:

The current system isn’t based on Skill. That’s complete bullkitten.
It’s based on winning. Winning doesn’t take skill, winning simply takes class imbalance.

Whenever I join a match I check my team. If I see at least 2 imbalanced classes, I know I’m on the winning team.
If I only see one, it’s going to be a tight race.
If I don’t see one, I know I’m going to be farmed.

I see no skill what-so-ever in this matchmaking system.
The most important factor in the league is Pips. If you really wanted to impact the skill level or at least the teamplay rewards for players, then there needs to be a way to NOT lose a Pip.
Things like, losing while on a winning streak shouldn’t lose a pip, but simply lose the winnings streak.
Or, in a losing team you still retain your pip if you manage to get above ~180 in score.
If you still held your own, if you still fought to the bitter end, You should still be rewarded.

The system now doesn’t incentives fighting a losing battle. If anything it gives incentive to lose faster, rather then trying to keep fighting.
If everyone knew they could still fight to keep a pip? everyone would still keep fighting. even if they were getting farmed by the other team.
The way the game is now, you can clearly see which team is going to win from the first tussle at the mid-point. I’ve seen a few turn arounds, but they are very far between, and I’m pretty sure the league system that only rewards winning is the issue.
When losing players keep getting farmed, and keeps seeing the same pattern of imbalanced classes wiping them out.. what incentive do they have of even leaving the spawn? They’ll lose anyway.. why even run out to be farmed?
Fighting to NOT lose a pip would give incentive to lose with dignity and improve your game.

That, imo, would add skill to the leagues. A good player, in a bad team, would still rise to his proper level. Instead of getting penalized by other peoples mistakes or a bad matchmaking system.
Instead of just lucking out with imbalanced teammates, or changing to the OP of the week class.

I can’t believe I missed this post, strong points indeed. Your league progress is based on good your class is and not your skills, couldn’t agree more.

Agemnon.4608:

Ohoni.6057:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Nobody should ever feel “stuck.” EVER. There is nothing positive about being stuck. If the goal is that it is intended for players to get into Ruby and get “stuck,” then you should just tell them that. Have a message pop up that says:

“You are in Ruby now, which is as far as you’re capable of going. You can stop now because any further effort will be futile.”

Then they can just stop rather than continuing to waste their time in a mode that will never be rewarding for them.

There are no limits, only plateaus. You must not stay there, you must go beyond them. Is it the matchmaking keeping you in Ruby or are you keeping yourself there?

The quote this person used was to express what he is feeling about ruby. You’re correct, but feeling like you can’t go any further is frustrating. Especially when you’re not evenly matched.

The point of this league, based on how matches are made, is not give fair matches or even help players get better. It is to move players that system’s numbers say are good. That doesn’t mean no personal skill is involved, but I would doubt anyone would say that everyone currently in a division deserves to be there based on skill alone.

Pvp should always, ALWAYS, be about challenging matches where everyone can leave feeling like they got better. At least that is my opinion. That is why I play. I always want to get better. It is hard to do that this season when I’m paired against people clearly not just a little better, but way better than I am. That is frustrating and demoralizing.

Agemnon.4608:

Ohoni.6057:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Nobody should ever feel “stuck.” EVER. There is nothing positive about being stuck. If the goal is that it is intended for players to get into Ruby and get “stuck,” then you should just tell them that. Have a message pop up that says:

“You are in Ruby now, which is as far as you’re capable of going. You can stop now because any further effort will be futile.”

Then they can just stop rather than continuing to waste their time in a mode that will never be rewarding for them.

There are no limits, only plateaus. You must not stay there, you must go beyond them. Is it the matchmaking keeping you in Ruby or are you keeping yourself there?

There is no belief in bettering yourself, instead of looking inward at why you desire things and what you are willing to do to attain them, you come to the forums to cry for changes to the system.

gloflop.3510:

First, thank you Jourdelune for the explanation of what mmr is. Now the important question is: Do you think it works as planned?

If I go back to last season where both teams were in my mmr range (if I understood it correctly). A game on the forest map started with one player running to close and 4 to the forest creature. After the forest creature was killed, both teams battled for mid. However, when I entered ruby (division 4), the dominant strategy changed entirely. Now 1 player went close and 4 players went mid. Once close was captured, the player from close killed the forest creature.

I dont want to start a discussion about the optimal strategy. Let us for now assume that it is the division 4 strategy. Let us furthermore see my annecdote as a signal for better players in division 4, worse beyond. Last season we got ranked against players in our mmr and in our division (roughly). What happens now with my mmr in this situation? Since I play against better opponents and since there are some players improving strongly and enter diamond, I start losing more than I win. Hence, my mmr drops (as I said: paired against similar mmr). Let us now compare my mmr before season 1 with after season 1. Am I higher, lower or equal?

Now the question again: Is mmr a fair representation of your skill?

Do you think, I am comparable before and after season 1?

MMR is a fairer representation of your skill than your enemy pip range.

MMR is good enough to pair you with same skill for season 2. Why using it just for your team?

Ok…

IS MMR Perfect? No.

Is it better than random team? Yes.

Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose. More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.

In a team game, MMR is not like in a single player game. Glicko 2 is an algorithm for chess…

Anet did fine tune this a lot.

From my past experiences in ranked play form 2013 and 2014, players that where top 200 where better than player that where 200-400 that were better than 400 to 600 and so on.

But… it was “generally”. I did recruit some guyz that had 90% ranked and in a week I could say he play like a 500. why? He played with casual players that where not trying to win that much, making mistakes a lot and so on…

Same… another flaw of MMR, is if you play with high MMR player, you will get high MMR opposing team too. So if you win, you raise your MMR. So part of the MMR is “social” based.

I’ve played with top 100 players that were really bad on rotations… that always peel on even fights with 3 or more players, and he played meta ele or engi. Yeah… bad players got carried by team leader saying goes there or goes there… and when that bad was not listening he got kick from his team but was able to sustain his MMR because his RANK was shown and other high RANK continue to play with him.

The decay on RANK was bad too. Need more finetuning.

But… this was way better than the grinding of WINS that gave us RANK since january 2015. Test season 1 and 2 were bad. League season 1 and 2 as well.

RANK should show who you can beat. Not how much game you wins.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6048108

style.6173:

The issue is the types of people who are stuck in Ruby.

In low levels, people are just learning their role.

In Ruby, people know what each role is supposed to do and ONLY play their role the way it is supposed to be played and expect others to do the same

In Diamond/Legend, people know what each role is supposed to do but adapt to what the rest of their team is doing and are flexible as needed in order to win.

This dude is a wiseman. I realized I was taking the job of a revenant too seriously around two weeks ago when stuck in ruby. Then I just stopped trying to +1 everything like mad, decided to camp on points a bit more and read the map more carefully, and the next day I was already in diamond

Jelzouki.4128:

Thank you Evan for finally telling these casuals that the reason they are in losing streaks in emerald is because they need to IMPROVE SKILL. You can only climb so much to the point where you need to fix your own gameplay instead of whining. I consider myself to be above average as I almost made it into season pro league, and am legendary rank which sort of supports what I say next. Legendary division feels a lot better this season because the games are closer, the people are better, and unfortunately the queues are longer but its all worth it because I know the people in legendary didn’t have to go on a grind fest. Most of the people I know in legendary didn’t lose a single match until they hit ruby. It’s very simple to climb you just need to IMPROVE your gameplay. /caps typing from phone sorry for grammar

Well, it was true last week.

It’s less true now.

In 2 weeks, it will be even less true.

Many people with average skill level will hit Legendary with a 52% win loose ratio soon enough. (with like 500 games played)

Diamond is completely taken by them right now.

Oh… and please:
" unfortunately the queues are longer but its all worth it because I know the people in legendary didn’t have to go on a grind fest"

How many matches did you made to get there?

It seems the avg is 180. This is a lot of matches… We should all be paired versus team of our skill level all time of the year. We don’t need to grind through there with an artificial league system that simply give a PVE REWARD 4 times a years for 8 week x 4.