Guild Wars 2

And I do aswell, hell even Dark Souls PvP which is a backstab/one shot festival is way funnier than this, I’m so glad that great games are coming up this year, because I’m not pleased by how HoT turned this game into a complete mess where grinding is omnipresent.

Speaking of Ruby and pips, with 50% winrate, it’s obviously a dice roll until I get win streaks to get out thanks to MMR of course, which promotes tryharding at it’s best.

wait untill you get to diamond , i keep getting teamed with ruby players who duo with emerald and sapphire (who are clearly beginners)

HossDelgado.5832:

wait untill you get to diamond , i keep getting teamed with ruby players who duo with emerald and sapphire (who are clearly beginners)

This, I forgot to mention it, no comment…

I hit diamond last night, my god was it a relief. I had played 57 games in T6 not even kidding
win loss win win loss loss win loss win loss loss win win loss loss. That was how the matches went all night.

On top of that it was kitten -near the same people in each match, just jumbled around. I kid you not I had brow twitches afterwards. I might just sit at Diamond now. If all my calculations where done correctly… I should be able to get my backpack in season 4.

what really bothers me is that i hit diamond in like 2 days and i fell like im stuck in elohell now , same people over and over again in my team ; especially 2 venomshare thiefs who duo with some necro …
think im just gonna roll burnwar and troll too

The issue is the types of people who are stuck in Ruby.

In low levels, people are just learning their role.

In Ruby, people know what each role is supposed to do and ONLY play their role the way it is supposed to be played and expect others to do the same

In Diamond/Legend, people know what each role is supposed to do but adapt to what the rest of their team is doing and are flexible as needed in order to win.

WereDragon.6083:

I hit diamond last night, my god was it a relief. I had played 57 games in T6 not even kidding
win loss win win loss loss win loss win loss loss win win loss loss. That was how the matches went all night.

On top of that it was kitten -near the same people in each match, just jumbled around. I kid you not I had brow twitches afterwards. I might just sit at Diamond now. If all my calculations where done correctly… I should be able to get my backpack in season 4.

I have to hit Legendary if I wanna get backpack next Season unfortunately, I’ve been playing Revenant exclusively this season with over 160+ matches on it (51,7% winrate overall), so I wouldn’t say I’m bad but I can’t synergize well if my team does dumb stuff.

I also hate Foefire, when the other team is organized, they just sit at mid and watch over far and close which makes us lose every time…

The matchmaking and pip system and grind make me hate pvp.

I disagree. I think the overwhelming amount of necro’s. The ever present tag team of healbot ele and support druid node camping. The push me-pull me lopsided matches. Good players with a MMR assignment they shouldn’t be on being teamed with players far less experienced than them. Teleport hacks here and there. The long wait times with nothing to do are all far superior reasons why people aren’t enjoying PvP this season. All the gripes from last season without a mesmer scapegoat to take it all out on.

So I decided to try an alt account to climb the ladder. Without a doubt, Amber has the lowest quality players and Ruby is second lowest.

I don’t know why, but people so far in Ruby seem to be generally worse at PvP than the people in sapphire were. Holy kitten some of the garbage I have seen. I am not a pro by any means but by this point I’d kind of expect people to have some kind of clue about rotating and not doing stupid kitten.

Amurond.4590:

I don’t know why, but people so far in Ruby seem to be generally worse at PvP than the people in sapphire were. Holy kitten some of the garbage I have seen. I am not a pro by any means but by this point I’d kind of expect people to have some kind of clue about rotating and not doing stupid kitten.

So garbage quality players have been carried yet again but there are still good players stuck in sapphire and emerald because they keep getting poor quality teammates

It’s because of the hard barriers in the prior divisions that don’t allow one to lose tiers. This means that eventually all but the worst or unluckiest players can grind to Ruby. Once you’re in Ruby, the matchmaking system puts you on a team and in a game with anybody else within pip range of you, on the assumption that you’re equal when you’re clearly not. It is essentially randomized team construction from a pool of all players who played enough games. In a randomized setting, your win rate will trend toward .500, making getting out of Ruby a pain for most people.

Amurond.4590:

I don’t know why, but people so far in Ruby seem to be generally worse at PvP than the people in sapphire were. Holy kitten some of the garbage I have seen. I am not a pro by any means but by this point I’d kind of expect people to have some kind of clue about rotating and not doing stupid kitten.

Solo players who got carried.Would be different if there was Solo ladder and team separated. BUT if they would do that cause low player base ladder would feel empty why simple.Majority is solo playing or casual i would be surprised of the server statistic how many actual players are still playing this game.What the reason is for this poor league right now and pvp expirience. Low player base and ending up with bad matchmaking.

And again its not the ruby, its the matchmaking that first match you with a good team against noobs and 1-2 games after that place you on the noob side. There are almost no equal (in skill) matches out there. Especially in ruby.
The only good way to avoid that is to have decent team, sadly I dont have one.

Amineo.8951:

I’m not pleased by how HoT turned this game into a complete mess where grinding is omnipresent.

This has nothing to do with HoT. The two Leaderboard seasons long before HoT were pure grind.

Shylock.4653:

Amineo.8951:

I’m not pleased by how HoT turned this game into a complete mess where grinding is omnipresent.

This has nothing to do with HoT. The two Leaderboard seasons long before HoT where pure grind.

But they werent so intrusive. Now we only have unranked and “no fun”. Playing ranked before the new system was way more satisfying and fun.

Shylock.4653:

Amineo.8951:

I’m not pleased by how HoT turned this game into a complete mess where grinding is omnipresent.

This has nothing to do with HoT. The two Leaderboard seasons long before HoT were pure grind.

You have to understand that to most of the complainer’s on these forums “grind” in PvP equates to losing, something they cannot handle given their “pro” status and all the skills they clearly have from playing PvE. It’s like they expect to just win each and every match and that winning only 50% of the time (at your skill cap/good matchmaker algo) is somehow NOT what is intended.

Pretty obvious that the player base in GW2 is not one that is coming from MOBAs or FPS games.

I’d kill for a 50% win rate/close matchup like SC2 and other competitive games… those games that end with 500-10 doesn’t really help either side improve.

fishball.7204:

I’d kill for a 50% win rate/close matchup like SC2 and other competitive games… those games that end with 500-10 doesn’t really help either side improve.

But espurts!

I’m giving up PVP on sapphire today. Here’s my story: yesterday i finished on win streak, all i needed was just one pip to reach ruby. today i’ve lost freakin every single match. now i need 5 pips again and again. It’s just impossible for me

Well screw this game, each days I just lose more than I win because of BS like this:
-Team that gets overconfident in Temple which result in a loss because they didn’t get the boons
-Horrible gameplay with blowouts
-People stacking the stupid necros, ele and res bot druid, or reroll their class to counter my team because nobody there does it
-Dumb decisions, like I downed 2 guys in a point, one in my team shows up and what does he do? Auto attack…
-Premades
-People afk

I was Ruby T5 last week and I got down to T2, can you believe it? If I continue playing, I’ll get back to Saphire in that rate.

Can’t there be both? Sort of. Legendary (like pve legendarys) should be achieved by all with enough time. But legendary rank/div should only be achieved by the best. Can there be two separate tracks/elos?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

At the top end it may be aligning better but I and others would dispute that around the middle and lower end it is. It assumes mmr is a good measure of skill, that players with a similar mmr are of a similar skill level, that players get a good number of matches against players of a similar skill level, none of which appears to be true. And also discounts the effect of poor team comps. The majority of matches are not close.

Its clear that matching opponents only by pip range is a complete failure and there must be mmr matching as well going forward. Heck someone else suggested matching teammates by pip range and opponents purely by average mmr of the team would be more worthwhile.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Improving skill and hoping the other 4 igits you get paired with are of decent skill. Otherwise no amount of skill in the world is going to help you climb a TEAM based system if you keep getting paired with unskilled players.

In retrospect in my climb to diamond I came across a great deal of games, both winning and losing that where absolute blow-outs were the sheer difference in team skill was so insane that I have both a 500/64 and most recent a conquest that as a loss rolled out to around 595/10.

So while the system in theory might be decent… There are serious problems in places… Or these blowout games SHOULD NOT be happening in any capacity. But I’m not the only case. There are many many topics on the forums at the moment that show the insane loss streaks, win streaks and absolute blow outs that MatchMaker is throwing some people into.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

By this argument i must be a very very bad pvp player because I’ve not won a single game for over 20 matches and this losing streak started when i managed to get out of amber.

So AM I such a bad player? Or is something else happening.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Then why did you not remove the “can’t loose tier” aspect of the ladder and gave average MMR to new players? This, right there is a major problem for what you say you wanted to do. You can’t have this thing be family friendly and elitist at the same time. Pick one and stick with it is my advice.

Ofc anybody can climb to ruby even if they otherwise should not because of all the previous safe guards. And the poor average and low MMR ppl who are legit rubies that are eternally fed these new player and non-legit rubies because the system see them as equally skillful (what a joke) are truly living hell this season while high MMR people are fed near exceptional team conditions with near no carrying to do. Well, ofc they will win if they face lower MMR people in their pip range but it will have a LOT to do with how pampered they were when the team was made and how the opponents might have been trolled by the engine and not that much because the individuals were good or bad in each respective teams.

I’m sorry Evan but I truly hope next season the MM will make teams differently. I’m all for something more prestigious and skill based but this is not it at all and on top of it it is very frustrating for a good deal of ppl.

Remove the “can’t loose pips and tier” next season so the low skill players remain low and not accumulating in ruby to troll higher level players and never EVER, give average MMR to new players. Also, I think making teams using MMR while picking opponents within pip range and not MMR was a big mistake. All you did this season was polarize your MMR by making sure what was strong easily get stronger and what was not easily get weaker (and that regardless of actual performances which is truly sad).

I know it is not easy but IMO you have a choice to make regarding who is your target player base in that kind of event.

A solo player like myself getting stuck in tier 2 ruby for a week makes me not even want to play PvP. Especially when I get teams of 5 Necros. Then there are the people that are joining on classes they can’t play to attempt a PvP achievement for a PvE reward.

Legendary backpack is a PvE reward, and should never have been the incentive to rouse interest in PvP. It has filled the matches with people that absolutely do not care about playing in a team environment.

This is very simple, its not a reward track. It’s a rank system, and technically works. Sapphire/Ruby should have your most average players with a close-to 50% win rate in that division, making it hard to work out of, but not fall too far back, too.

PVErs need to get out of PVP, and ANet need to hurry up with the Legendary Fractal Back piece already, so people don’t feel so entitled to be in PVP for their PVE item. The prestige needs to stay, PVErs need to have a reason to not be in PVP for an item, it’s really as simple as that.

Why not set people as a provisional rating and have the cutoff for ranked be at least rank 50? That way ranked players will enter with decent experience while the provisional would be volatile for 100 or so matches like a provisional rating in chess.

ronpierce.2760:

This is very simple, its not a reward track. It’s a rank system, and technically works. Sapphire/Ruby should have your most average players with a close-to 50% win rate in that division, making it hard to work out of, but not fall too far back, too.

PVErs need to get out of PVP, and ANet need to hurry up with the Legendary Fractal Back piece already, so people don’t feel so entitled to be in PVP for their PVE item. The prestige needs to stay, PVErs need to have a reason to not be in PVP for an item, it’s really as simple as that.

As it is, it is still in large part still a reward track. It is also largely sold as an event targeting everybody. A choice must be made.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This comment irritates me to the core. Its like the studio doesnt even play their own game. They forget that in Soloq there are 5 RANDOM players. on top of that, 5 random build combos that may or may not work well together. ON TOP OF THAT, 5 random classes.

My build on revenant doesnt handle conditions well so if I get a match where my teammates dont have party cleanses or the other team has too many condition builds, I am at a serious disadvantage and can only get through it using sheer force.

If the team composition is not ideal for what we are up against, you expect us to class swap? change to something we may not be able to play well?

The only way to get past ruby with the thousands of variations is to hand hold the team and give instructions in chat constantly. Your comment is something i would expect from a call of duty dev.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

If I may what is your definition of skill? ? Grouping best players together? ? I know lots of pro players who have complained about the current MMR. So is being part of a premade considered skill?? Once they exponentially increase ones winrate??

ronpierce.2760:

This is very simple, its not a reward track. It’s a rank system, and technically works. Sapphire/Ruby should have your most average players with a close-to 50% win rate in that division, making it hard to work out of, but not fall too far back, too.
.

Up to ruby it is actually essentially a reward track.

morrolan.9608:

ronpierce.2760:

This is very simple, its not a reward track. It’s a rank system, and technically works. Sapphire/Ruby should have your most average players with a close-to 50% win rate in that division, making it hard to work out of, but not fall too far back, too.
.

Up to ruby it is actually essentially a reward track.

Yes, I realize early parts are like a reward track. I think that is their attempt to make it “somewhat” fun for everyone. But that doesn’t mean everyone “deserves” to have Legendary. I feel the way it is set up is actually very generous… It’s still prestigious to get to Legendary, but most people can at least make it to ruby if they put in the time and effort, so they can at least wrack up some of the smaller rewards. That’s perfect if you ask me. The problem with Leagues right now is entirely entitlement, unfortunately, the game has pushed that entitlement because “it’s a casual game” and “everyone can be a hero”. They finally added ONE thing that pvpers can use for a little ounce of prestige and PVErs and entitled solo-quing casuals feel they MUST be able to reach legendary or it shouldn’t exist at all… I hate to come off as harsh, but why?

The only valid excuse/complaint I see currently is that the PVE legendary back piece isn’t in the game yet. And I agree, that’s annoying, but beyond that, it’s ONE prestigious thing in the game… Just let it be…

Ragion.2831:

My build on revenant doesnt handle conditions well so if I get a match where my teammates dont have party cleanses or the other team has too many condition builds, I am at a serious disadvantage and can only get through it using sheer force.

Why don’t you change to a class that can better handle that match up when it presents itself?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

I’d consider myself an average player, and on certain classes on the upper end of average. But as others have said this is a team-based pvp system. I cannot carry a team of 4 other people in a system that has point-capturing mechanisms. If I manage to sprint across the map and backcap constantly, there is still always at least one other point that needs to be held to ensure that we have a point lead. I can’t be in two places at once. And even if I do manage to out-rotate them, the rest of my team suiciding in mid is going to give the opposing team more points than I could possibly muster up.

I’m not entirely sure how the system works, but if what others are saying is true and losing members are intentionally grouped together against people with previous wins, then how in any universe is that a fair match-up? That’s just handing the game to one team and allowing them to get boosted up while replacing them with yet another winning team while I and the rest of my team constantly fall to the bottom of the latter waiting on that lowest rung winning team that just happens to so bad that my clueless teammates just happen to outplay spamming abilities.

This whole season may work great for filtering out people in Diamond and Legendary, but it really screws over people in lower divisions that aren’t in a premade organized team.

Also, whether the pvp devs see this system as a success or not, that still doesn’t change the fact that there are endless dragonhunters and necros stacking in teams making certain classes irrelevant, group capturing next to impossible without some cleansing/heal bot, and creates an extremely unfair advantage that doesn’t even boil down to which team has more skilled players.

I’ve been stuck on the last tier of sapphire for 4 days now, getting a win, a loss, a win, a loss, two wins only to lose before a losing streak, then 4 losses… only about 5 of these losses have been actual close matches. The rest have been blowouts and if you lose once, you’re almost guaranteed to lose the next few matches.

The system is broken compared to last season.

If you want it to be completely skill-based, remove solo queue, create a 1v1 arena system, and remove the safety net of not losing pips and tiers for all divisions. And please, implement some actual balance before the end of the season.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

just finished a match and rolled a team with 2 revs and 3 rangers against 1 ranger 1 thief 1 Dragonhunter, 1 necro and 1 engineer. Naturally we lost badly but im sure this is clearly evidence of my mediocrity right?

Ragion.2831:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

just finished a match and rolled a team with 2 revs and 3 rangers against 1 ranger 1 thief 1 Dragonhunter, 1 necro and 1 engineer. Naturally we lost badly but im sure this is clearly evidence of my mediocrity right?

Well of course it is. This is WHERE you should be… Forget the fact you have to rely on four other people not being igits and have to fight an equally sentient team… This sir is where you were destined to be in the leagues. =P

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Here’s the thing. Whatever division you end up in a season gives you a shiny next to your name for a few weeks. This is a temporary thing that almost no one cares about.

What people DO care about is the legendary backpack. I believe it is still the only one in the game. I can not check right now because the wiki is down. The legendary backpack is gated by time, tier progression, and the ability to be successful at the highest levels of pvp with multiple classes.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE consider the following. Many (most?) players play one, possibly two classes in or to clear a ‘year of the achievement’ level. For example, I had cleared years 1 and 2 on my accounts in the first season. I was able to get to ruby on my main account this season and am almost there on my secondary account. Once in ruby, my year 3 achievements will be complete on both accounts. It is unlikely that I will be able to make it to diamond in this season, so the next of the achievements is class wins. In other words, I need to achieve 10 class wins on two classes on two accounts.

Because these are not my primary classes it is reasonable to expect a 30-40% win percentage, because I will be up against good competition. If we take a 33% win percentage, that means that i will likely lose 40 games per account just for this achievement. Furthermore, these losses will be damaging to my teammates. They will lose matches so they will lose pips, have win streaks stopped AND have a lower mmr going forward which means that they will have worse teammates going forward, meaning more loses… It is a vicious cycle.

Removing the class and/or tier requirements would allow those of us that are in this just for the backpack to achieve our goal and go back to our normal activities. As it is, I am likely looking at having to redo the climb to sapphire next season as well as try to ‘get lucky’ and get those 20 wins on classes I don’t play as well.

@ Evan Lesh

I’d say you are mistaken. The divisions are less prestigious. The long losing streaks and repeated stomps create bitterness.

In addition, teaming is the only practical means to get the upper divisions. I strongly suspect that was intended. So, in reality, players skills are not being tested so much as social skills and the ability to choose stackable classes and builds. Witness the number of complaints about the quality of play in Diamond/legendary.

Yes, rewards absolutely need to be grindable. The system as it stands may work in that it quickly separates players into a bell curve. Unfortunately it also alienates players and in doing so reduces the population. I contend that you’ll run out of players willing to be stomped over before the 50% win distribution has a chance to develop.

The only reason I still bother to go to PvP this season is to try to grind for the wings. It looks like even that might be denied to me, because of the time limits.

I admit that I’m surprised by the tone of your post. You seem to imply that the season and matchmaking are going well.

WereDragon.6083:

Ragion.2831:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

just finished a match and rolled a team with 2 revs and 3 rangers against 1 ranger 1 thief 1 Dragonhunter, 1 necro and 1 engineer. Naturally we lost badly but im sure this is clearly evidence of my mediocrity right?

Well of course it is. This is WHERE you should be… Forget the fact you have to rely on four other people not being igits and have to fight an equally sentient team… This sir is where you were destined to be in the leagues. =P

makes no sense but ok

Ragion.2831:

WereDragon.6083:

Ragion.2831:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

just finished a match and rolled a team with 2 revs and 3 rangers against 1 ranger 1 thief 1 Dragonhunter, 1 necro and 1 engineer. Naturally we lost badly but im sure this is clearly evidence of my mediocrity right?

Well of course it is. This is WHERE you should be… Forget the fact you have to rely on four other people not being igits and have to fight an equally sentient team… This sir is where you were destined to be in the leagues. =P

makes no sense but ok

I was being sarcastic. I’m on your side. XD

The whole problem Evan is not the system, most people who complain system is because actually being placed with weaker classes and other stronger, e.g. a group having reapers and scrappers and other 2 warrior 2 thief, mesmer .

In logic the team that has more chance of winning is reaper and scrappers who are the strongest classes, I believe the problem is more balanced than the system itself ….. I prefer the system now even that is stuck in ruby ..

Because I know that the total fault of bad players and others who leaves the pve to pvp go without at least train in unranked or hot join.

If you do a really good balance, we see several classes mixed in the game and not an amount of 5 reapers or 4 scrappers and reaper.

As for those who complain about the current system, learn to play, train hard and learn to play together …. learn to put less blame on the system and more blame yourself or players on your team.

Rap Tiger.1257:

The whole problem Evan is not the system, most people who complain system is because actually being placed with weaker classes and other stronger, e.g. a group having reapers and scrappers and other 2 warrior 2 thief, mesmer .

In logic the team that has more chance of winning is reaper and scrappers who are the strongest classes, I believe the problem is more balanced than the system itself ….. I prefer the system now even that is stuck in ruby ..

Because I know that the total fault of bad players and others who leaves the pve to pvp go without at least train in unranked or hot join.

If you do a really good balance, we see several classes mixed in the game and not an amount of 5 reapers or 4 scrappers and reaper.

As for those who complain about the current system, learn to play, train hard and learn to play together …. learn to put less blame on the system and more blame yourself or players on your team.

It’s amazing how your argumentation regarding the system not being a significant problem at all is rather “light”…

Im sorry Evan, but if this is supposed to be where the majority of players should be, then why are at least 70% of the matches totally frustrating to everybody?

And please, tell me, why did I get to ruby on one account and got stuck there, whereas on another Im now nearly through Diamond?

Where exactly am I supposed to be now… ruby hell or nearly legendary?

/edit:

My build on revenant doesnt handle conditions well so if I get a match where my teammates dont have party cleanses or the other team has too many condition builds, I am at a serious disadvantage and can only get through it using sheer force.
(…)

This might be a wild idea, but… did you ever try swapping glint for dwarf/mallyx stance and adjusting your traits a bit when facing like at least 3 condi heavy professions? No sarcasm there, rev is the profession besides dragonhunter that I dont know in and out.
Of course you loose some offensive potential, but doesnt give mallyx and dwarf good support?

honestly if there were more players and more builds available / better profession balance then this wouldnt be such a problem. it would still be annoying but at least you would be getting better games.

Ithilwen.1529:

I admit that I’m surprised by the tone of your post. You seem to imply that the season and matchmaking are going well.

Yes this worries me as well. There’s been constant feedback that its not the case and I thought based on the reddit AMA that they had got the message. Oh well there are good games starting up in the next few months, if the next season doesn’t have the changes needed I will happily migrate to those games.

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Evan Lesh

Yes, rewards absolutely need to be grindable.

No, they don’t. The wings should only be accessible to players of the highest caliber.