Guild Wars 2

Dabrixmgp.4758:

I had a hotjoin match that somehow was literally all Mesmers. Yup 8 of them. Please tell me how a 40 vs 8 match is fair?

everyone and their dad is a mesmer in hot join. you look over to a teamfight, and its 30 versus two of your team.

NOPE.jpeg

Jacobin.8509:

Royce.6835:

lol. premades vs pugs is not a fail by anet or their design by any means… that’s your fail. if you are not serious about winning and just want to throw together a bunch of noobs to play paid tournaments, of course you’re going to get your kitten kicked by people much more organized and serious than you.

if you’re not going to put in the time to find serious players, create a group or team of friends that you can win with, then you simply don’t deserve to win. keep playing in hot join.

Oh look another forum tough guy who thinks blaming players for not being ‘hardcore’ enough is a smart way to design a successful competitive PvP game.

Stomping Pugs or noob teams over and over again is not exactly exciting for the hardcore players either.

right… and the problem is there is not enough hardcore players.. and i wouldn’t even call it hardcore.. i’d call it.. “competitive”.

game needs more incentive to bring the competitive players back to the game or to make existing players want to be more competitive.

don’t talk about pugging and competition in the same light…

even in league of legends.. you solo queue just to show that you’re competent, then you join a team to move on to the real deal.

in this game, there are free tournaments where you can pug, and paid, where it requires a team. plain and simple bro.

Jacobin.8509:

Agreed.

The two major failings of sPvP:

1) Premades vs pugs
2) Charging casuals micro-transactions in order to LTP at a competitive level and ultimately charging people money for losing to teams that play 10 hours a day.

Now we have no population despite what the Devs keep saying and we see the results which is a MMR that makes the same two teams face each other for 6 hours because there is no competition.

lol. premades vs pugs is not a fail by anet or their design by any means… that’s your fail. if you are not serious about winning and just want to throw together a bunch of noobs to play paid tournaments, of course you’re going to get your kitten kicked by people much more organized and serious than you.

if you’re not going to put in the time to find serious players, create a group or team of friends that you can win with, then you simply don’t deserve to win. keep playing in hot join.

trust me. you DON’T want to solo queue paids… lol.

not only will you get stomped hard, but no one will learn anything and the lack of competition will remain.

showatt.9413:

Royce.6835:

*they are adding them in their feb patch like it says on their website. *

Do we get a ladder for normal matches as well or is it just torny only?
Either way, thank god for that lol.

But really, Ladders are kinda important for pvp to run, if you know what I’m saying.

i don’t know the specifics. i only know as much as they tell us and they don’t tell us very much

but yeah it’s very important to have that. that’s why all the serious pvpers have left this game to do something else already.

they are adding them in their feb patch like it says on their website.

yes, it probably screwed with things… their current setup of pvp is very “fun” and not competitive.. so to turn that into a competitive scene probably took a lot of thought, not to mention pvp is not the only thing they have to work on in their game.

i say.. if they don’t give us what we want soon, we should all cancel our subscriptions.

oh…

lol jk, but seriously. shakes fist

Mrbig.8019:

Narcarsis.5739:

I have offered to help people, improve the game, and raise the skill cap. The issue is that people aren’t willing to improve, very few people took me up on my offer.

I also never said the game was bad. It’s a great game, and far more dynamic than the general population realizes. But when people get stomped in games they leave, reducing the amount of players in the queue. Eventually it gets to a point where people either fight the same players, or stomp new players forcing them to quit. When there are only 2 good teams matchmaking will force them to play each other over and over again until one gets bored and quits (this is how matchmaking works, they will climb higher and higher and no one will be able to catch up). While new players will slowly start to get better and be in a good environment the competitive/advanced players will slowly leave the game due to lack of competition. From there you either get lucky and find the newer players surpassing the older generation, or they will become capped and the cycle continues. The game needs multiple teams are able to compete at a higher level, so that it causes the meta to form (it won’t happen when it’s just 2 teams) and evolve. Issue with that is that there aren’t enough good players at the moment to form these teams. It’s critical for the game’s health and needs to be assessed.

And what is the reason why there’re not tons of good teams ?

Do you really believe it’s why people are bad ?

WRONG

You would be astounished to find out how many skilled players are playing WvW, or simply are sticking to free tournys.

For example, i may consider me a skilled player, but i NEVER really wanted to pay this PvP seriously, because

1. No incentives

I never felt the need to do the jump from frees to paids. QPs are a ridiculous way to measure skill, without rating it’s just a joke.

I don’t even care to find a team, because competition matters very little if nobody can see I AM THE BEST: you may be top in QPs ladder, it says very little about your skill level, and very few people will take you seriously.

2. Balance issues

Too few builds, too few playstyles for class.

This is totally devs fault: they should have split PvE and PvP skills /traits from the beginning, curretnly every class is full of crap weapons/U-skills/ traits it’s not even funny, and they’re taking the wrong route on it with every patch ( the nerf to spirit weapons clearly demonstates it : spirit weapon nerf because the shield is OP in PvE while in PvP they were already bad, now they die with 2 Trick Shot hits and i roflmao).

I was an S/D thief, i hate aNet for what they did to the only real alternative to burst builds in high end PvP, in the attempt to nerf thief burst.

3. The tournament system and its rewards.

We all knew this.

Entrance barriers were too thick, PvP economy was a failure, and current Temple week clearly demonstated it.

it was not fun to lose at first round and lose all your tickets, that’s the reason why people were “less involved” to try paids.

Fix these 3 issues, and you’ll see PvP FLOURISH in this game.

ty for saying this. it’s what i’ve been saying. all this game needs is incentive and it will take off so fast.

just look at league of legends. the only thing fueling those players to be the best is the fact that they have a very hard to obtain rating, their K/Ds are shown to anyone who looks, and there is a million dollar prize pool every year.

gw2 has none of that hence no one cares to be the best. i’m a very serious pvper, and i love gw2 pvp. but if it doesnt get more serious.. i’d rather just play league of legends..

and to those of you who think it’s already serious… you’re a joke lol.

TheAngryLlama.7641:

I’d like to join in to this conversation as a average player who more often than not is down the lower end of players.
People suck at pvp because the current balance of the game is frustrating beyond all reason to learn.
Those of you that were already good sat around the top and learned quickly, for those of us that want to learn we play for a little and get frustrated and leave.
Why is that you may ask?
Because in every single patch, nerf after nerf someone finds a build of a class somewhere that has the simple premise of ‘If your opponent isn’t quick enough or doesn’t know how to counter it yet he dies… instantly. Basically a build that is easy to do well with (if in some cases hard to do very well with) and whose difficulty is only made by facing opponents who have already learnt to counter the iwin button’
First it was 100blades, then it was backstab thieves, now its d/d elementalists and shatter mesmers.

Now of course I could learn to stop these builds… and over time I do. The problem really kicks into gear when it becomes common knowledge and suddenly a 16 person match contains 5 elementalists and 7 mesmers….
Taking from my own experience I know I can use x/y/z to counter that mesmers ‘look at me spam clones and shatter while I GS zap you’ but I then proceed to die to the other 3 mesmers cause hey look, my skills and dodges are all gone and without the mitigating abilities you instantly die. Because the build takes skill to avoid but only takes skill to pull off if you are against someone who already has the necessary skill to avoid it in the first place.
This is frustrating. This turns people off wanting to learn the game. When almost everybody in hotjoins is running the same FOTM insta gibb builds and it is physically impossible to have enough access to skills and dodges to not die over and over again you really cease wanting to play, and without that experience no one gets better and if no one gets better the player base at the top stagnates gets boring and then they start leaving

a fair point my friend. i think another problem is.. in hot join like you said.. they are all mesmers and eles and kitten. and it’s almost impossible to fight them in a team fight situation.. there will be over 20 clones on the battlefield and it’s too much too handle. it’s discouraging, even though they are just clones, to see 20+ players on the field in front of you. I honestly think the clone mechanic along with the pets necros can summon are a bad design for pvp… but that’s just my opinion. every mesmer seems to disagree with it

TwoBit.5903:

When the game is bad, you blame the player, obv.

lmfao

V Man.8512:

Oh my god the game is meant to be played for fun!!! Get the pitchforks out guys I think it’s time to go hunt some witches….

Seriously, if you’re not enjoying playing the game then why play? Play for fun and you’ll have a lot more.. well, fun.

er… don’t be such a carebear. competitive pvpers and esport teams get “fun” out of competition… they don’t find it “fun” just to pvp for no reason, except for maybe like 30 mins.

it’s fun when your time means something… and don’t just say “stop playing the game then”

we like the game and see it’s potential, thats why we keep criticizing it. if we really disliked it, we would be gone in a heartbeat.

Rambodacious.7495:

Guys…. I didn’t include the numbers on capturing points and the like because there’s too many variables… I can simply break it down to how much glory you need per day. It’s still ridiculous….

It’s 6837 glory per day, every day, for six years, without ever missing one single day. Assuming you get 330 glory per fight (you don’t, no really, not even you tough guy forum warrior), but assuming you did – you get 20% win bonus on top of that (because hey, our best player evar never loses right?). So:

396

Now let’s add 50% bonus from glory booster:

594 glory

The absolute, unrealistic best case scenario…. 594 per game for our unrealistic title quester. 11.5 unrealisitc games per day, every day, for six years with permanent glory booster AND NEVER losing one single match, ever.

lmfao. yeah it shouldn’t be that impossible to get. they just need to add different incentives.. and tone all that grind down lol. it’s just as you said. they did not finish pvp.. so they just had impossible achievements and very long rank grinds to keep us busy.

MY worry is… will they finish pvp anytime soon?

yep.

15chararacters

Pharexys.4280:

Ok im gonna act like a wierdo, but there is no other way to explain it to you.

This is the conversation of a Casual and Esport player:

Casual: Hey “esport player”
Esport: Hey “casual player”
Casual: I’ve been playing GW2 and its fun mate.
Esport: Ya well, me dont care.
Casual: Has pvp, good pivipi!
Esport: Me play fo money, has it has money?!!!!!!!!
Casual: No money yet, but soon™, they promised!!!!!
Esport: Me money play, No money No play.

I know but is freaking true.

exactly

leashmaygoss.2140:

he’s right unfortunately lol

he’s wrong lol. the reason there is no competition and the reason everyone seems to suck is because the pvp in the game isn’t serious. there is no ladder, no rating, no stats. just a rank that shows you’ve put 700 hours into the game.

when they add more incentive, people will start striving to be better at pvp.. not only that, but good pvpers from other games will be attracted to the game and start playing here.

right now we just have a bunch of carebears logging in to pvp for fun and they don’t care about being “good” at all, because there is no reward for being good.

Narcarsis.5739:

When there is no competition there is no incentive or fun.

There is no competition because people suck at PvP.

ok now you’re just plain wrong… or trolling. either way i’m out lol

yeah umm.. the reason is not because people suck at pvp. it’s because there’s no incentive. a lot of people don’t take the pvp seriously because the pvp is designed in such a fashion that it all seems like it’s

just for fun

when you have that feeling, there is no incentive to get better. so the source of why people suck is no incentive.

Arheundel.6451:

Royce.6835:

Arheundel.6451:

Royce.6835:

jportell.2197:

Same is said for bunker guardians. And what they hell did you just say in that last sentence? And the day that my auto attack crits for the same amount warriors does and I am just as survivable as them. I will think they need help. Until then just no.

lol. even if i specced full defense, i would not be as hard to kill as a guardian. i don’t see why you can’t understand that. the benefit of going defense is not as high as the benefit of going offense on a warrior. this is not true for any other class. the other classes have good synergy between offense and defense. the warrior class needs minor buffs to make their defensive traits more viable and provide more synergy so that more than 1 build can exist.

While you say this, there are no videos of anybody using a survival build who kill people left and right as quick as a warrior, you could make a video yourself but unless you fake the video..you simply can’t do that as these amazing builds simply don’t exist

that didn’t make any sense and was not relative to what i said at all.

Whatever…the question now is why you keep raging so hard about warriors?
The worst that can happen is they nerf all other profession and buff warrior to god status..but then everybody will play warrior…then Anet will nerf warriors again and buff other professions….in the end you never win as you’d like

i’m not raging…

but you are right, i have said what i wanted to say. i’m only responding cause i’m bored as hell.

Arheundel.6451:

Royce.6835:

jportell.2197:

Same is said for bunker guardians. And what they hell did you just say in that last sentence? And the day that my auto attack crits for the same amount warriors does and I am just as survivable as them. I will think they need help. Until then just no.

lol. even if i specced full defense, i would not be as hard to kill as a guardian. i don’t see why you can’t understand that. the benefit of going defense is not as high as the benefit of going offense on a warrior. this is not true for any other class. the other classes have good synergy between offense and defense. the warrior class needs minor buffs to make their defensive traits more viable and provide more synergy so that more than 1 build can exist.

While you say this, there are no videos of anybody using a survival build who kill people left and right as quick as a warrior, you could make a video yourself but unless you fake the video..you simply can’t do that as these amazing builds simply don’t exist

that didn’t make any sense and was not relative to what i said at all.

jportell.2197:

Same is said for bunker guardians. And what they hell did you just say in that last sentence? And the day that my auto attack crits for the same amount warriors does and I am just as survivable as them. I will think they need help. Until then just no.

lol. even if i specced full defense, i would not be as hard to kill as a guardian. i don’t see why you can’t understand that. the benefit of going defense is not as high as the benefit of going offense on a warrior. this is not true for any other class. the other classes have good synergy between offense and defense. the warrior class needs minor buffs to make their defensive traits more viable and provide more synergy so that more than 1 build can exist.

jportell.2197:

There is your problem right there. You want it all in one build. I’m a tank Mesmer and when I compare my damage numbers to what they were as a shatter burst its quite sad. But I turn all fights into fights of attrition unless the person runs in which case “I WIN!” You shouldn’t get it all in one build. You want to have high damage and kill people super quick GREAT! Don’t expect your survivability to match. The only class that can really do this I think is the D/D ele. But They are getting looked at and I also don’t know the class AMAZINGLY well so I am not going to be quick to say OP or whatever but I have my feelings.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

the thing is my friend… there is no tanky warrior build that gives us enough survivability to make up for the lack of dps. if we spec for full defense, we are only a little harder to kill while doing no dps at all

if we spec full offense, we are only a little easier to kill but do happy feet that aint falco wombo combo amounts of damage.

I WONDER WHICH ONE I’LL PICK

show me a build that removes conditions well and doesnt cut my dps into a fourth of what it was before. oh and it has to include stability.

jportell.2197:

Royce.6835:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Royce.6835:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Royce.6835:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Aww man warriors so unviable :/

DUDE LMAO when i saw this i literally busted out laughing. I hope you are trolling lmao.

DONT WORRY GUYS, HE GOT A KILL IN A HOT JOIN… MUST BE THE BEST CLASS

everyone HOLD THE PHONES

do NOT buff this class. clearly it is way op based on this screenshot LMFAO

Krilce.7864:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Aww man warriors so unviable :/

Man, you were playing in hot-join, 100% with new players judging by their armor. Considering the fact that most of them don’t even know how to dodge, and certainly not to interrupt your combo, I wouldn’t brag about warriors being viable.

Try and play against organized teams, you’d get demolished if you think this shows any kind of warrior viability.

Why u guys all so mad ?

I can’t help it that i’m doing fine with warrior atm

@Krilce
Curse usually has a warrior in their team so idk what you’re talking about lol

and if that guy on curse switched to a different class, his effectiveness would be increased tenfold. just saying.

jportell.2197:

Royce.6835:

jportell.2197:

Dueled a warrior in WvW (I know this is pvp) BUT this guy ran Sword/Shield GS combo and he was a beast. I’m sorry I think warriors are fine.

“I am a very inexperienced pvper. I fought a warrior who was just as bad as me. He wrecked me. Warriors are fine.”

???? And the other 10-15 people that he dueled that he beat? They are all just really bad too right?

yes.

Or maybe he just plays the class cause he actually likes it and thinks the class is good enough for paids. Right ? No ? Ok, let’s all play thief then.

I like the class. I tried the other classes. Warrior is my favorite because the other ones are too cheese for me. All kinds of weird tactics that i’m not into. I’m really straight forward, that’s why I play a warrior, not because I think it’s strong. I make it strong by putting in 10x the effort of other players who think their classes are hard to play

Woah woah woah. Sir I think you just contradicted yourself. Other classes have all kinds of weird tactics? Okay this is true. Ele’s attunement swaps, Mesmers shatter/tank builds. Guardians on boons Engi’s on kits so on. So because you don’t want to try another class with odd tactics you go for the “straight forward class” What I am getting out of this is that you want to put in no effort. If other classes require “weird” tactics then that means they have a challenge in playing them. So you want the straight forward auto attack no thought class and then say you have to try 10X harder? Hmmmm… Lots of contradiction from what I see.

What? no it means that it’s my personality. My personality matches the way the warrior plays (OR IS SUPPOSED TO PLAY). very straight forward, lots of gap closing, juggernaut basically.

what i mean by tactics is
1. stealthing every 2 seconds
2. confusing your opponent with clones
3. kiting your opponent into oblivion with chills, slows, and immobilizes
4. letting pets do all your damage

I don’t like to do any of those things. that eliminates almost all other classes except like, guardian, which i have been thinking about playing. Just because the class isn’t straight forward and relies on stealthing, kiting, or healing a lot, doesn’t make it hard. It just simply makes it different.

A straightforward class is just as hard as one with lots of tactics, because that straightforward class has to see through all the BS going on around him. He needs a ton of attention to detail, or he will fail.

I think you’re trying too hard to pick a fight with me now.

jportell.2197:

Ayestes.1273:

I’m so confused as to whether this is all satire or not now. Regardless, Mesmers aren’t nearly as much as an issue to me personally as they used to be. It’s possible because they blow two elite slots on Illusion of Life and Portal now coupled with all of the nerfs, or it’s possible it’s because I’ve got better at tracking the real Mesmer without hesitation. The clone mechanic is extremely interesting to me, even if frustrating at first when dealing with it. Also to make it clear, I only really play an Engineer.

You are better at tracking mesmers. Okay to everyone posting here. Instead of trying to fight mesmers 1v1 or picking up the class. Get some friends go to an empty server and watch the Mesmer duel another class. Make sure they are on your team and you will see it all and be like ahhhh…. You know who never complains about fighting mesmers? Other mesmers because we KNOW THE CLASS INSIDE AND OUT! If I am fighting a shatter Mesmer I run to the back of the stack of clones because that’s where the Mesmer is. Once I have them targeted the only time I drop target is if they use their 1 skill that leaves a clone in place of them. And even then it is usually pretty obvious its not the real Mesmer because the real Mesmer usually has sigils activated or a signet or a title under their name. It is really not that hard. And yeah I am going to say L2P because its the same problem with thieves. The only difference is we CONFUSE YOU MORE because we have more DISTRACTIONS up…. Hmmmm yeah I realize I have a lot of caps up but confusion and distraction are the design philosophy behind this class.

i don’t get why everyone thinks this is about how to fight mesmers 1v1. meet me in game i’ll beat you in a duel np. that’s not what i complain about.

Bsgapollo.5364:

Royce.6835:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Royce.6835:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Aww man warriors so unviable :/

DUDE LMAO when i saw this i literally busted out laughing. I hope you are trolling lmao.

DONT WORRY GUYS, HE GOT A KILL IN A HOT JOIN… MUST BE THE BEST CLASS

everyone HOLD THE PHONES

do NOT buff this class. clearly it is way op based on this screenshot LMFAO

Krilce.7864:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Aww man warriors so unviable :/

Man, you were playing in hot-join, 100% with new players judging by their armor. Considering the fact that most of them don’t even know how to dodge, and certainly not to interrupt your combo, I wouldn’t brag about warriors being viable.

Try and play against organized teams, you’d get demolished if you think this shows any kind of warrior viability.

Why u guys all so mad ?

I can’t help it that i’m doing fine with warrior atm

@Krilce
Curse usually has a warrior in their team so idk what you’re talking about lol

and if that guy on curse switched to a different class, his effectiveness would be increased tenfold. just saying.

jportell.2197:

Royce.6835:

jportell.2197:

Dueled a warrior in WvW (I know this is pvp) BUT this guy ran Sword/Shield GS combo and he was a beast. I’m sorry I think warriors are fine.

“I am a very inexperienced pvper. I fought a warrior who was just as bad as me. He wrecked me. Warriors are fine.”

???? And the other 10-15 people that he dueled that he beat? They are all just really bad too right?

yes.

Or maybe he just plays the class cause he actually likes it and thinks the class is good enough for paids. Right ? No ? Ok, let’s all play thief then.

I like the class. I tried the other classes. Warrior is my favorite because the other ones are too cheese for me. All kinds of weird tactics that i’m not into. I’m really straight forward, that’s why I play a warrior, not because I think it’s strong. I make it strong by putting in 10x the effort of other players who think their classes are hard to play

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Royce.6835:

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Wow, just wow. I mean seriously guys, is it really to hard to bind dodge to a different key and just dodge around the shatter, which most people can learn how to do by the second time a mes has tried to use the burst? Also for the idiot who said he couldn’t go ranged as a war cause rifle doesn’t pierce, you honestly shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you are using rifle instead of longbow in pvp, which has a nice little aoe that can solve all your problems by the way. For those of you who see the failure that is this “discussion” I just have to say that I find if the main defender of an argument has to resort to quoting nurato then you have already won…

lol… longbow is just as bad as rifle. sure it provides more teamfight dps. but 1v1 against a mesmer.. your longbow isn’t going to do anything. very effective at dpsing them down from a distance in a teamfight though, which is why i use longbow.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.i heard in the next patch they are giving mesmers a new ability called rasengan. stay tuned guys.

With this failure of a rebuttal I wash my hands of this argument knowing that I will sleep well tonight with the knowledge that this person was beyond anyone’s help.

and i’ll go to sleep knowing when i wake up, the mesmers will have rasengan and control the kyuubi’s chakra.

oh. and they will be hokage.

TheLastScotsman.4865:

Wow, just wow. I mean seriously guys, is it really to hard to bind dodge to a different key and just dodge around the shatter, which most people can learn how to do by the second time a mes has tried to use the burst? Also for the idiot who said he couldn’t go ranged as a war cause rifle doesn’t pierce, you honestly shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you are using rifle instead of longbow in pvp, which has a nice little aoe that can solve all your problems by the way. For those of you who see the failure that is this “discussion” I just have to say that I find if the main defender of an argument has to resort to quoting nurato then you have already won…

lol… longbow is just as bad as rifle. sure it provides more teamfight dps. but 1v1 against a mesmer.. your longbow isn’t going to do anything. very effective at dpsing them down from a distance in a teamfight though, which is why i use longbow.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.

also.. if you don’t see naruto quotes as a valid argument, then i have already won.i heard in the next patch they are giving mesmers a new ability called rasengan. stay tuned guys.

Arheundel.6451:

Nier.2478:

^
While I see builds other than GS actually working, I will never deny that there is no point in picking any other roamer other than Ele. In fact, I’m even willing to say that Thief and Warrior isn’t viable in competitive play unless you have an Ele. Why the hell do we all have to have an Ele just to do work? The meta right now is pathetic.

Even people are being a bunch of dumb preachers and saying “go play an Ele.”

Three simple things that should happen at Feb patch:

1.) Nerf everything face-roll into Warrior efficiency.
-Includes getting rid of Time Warp, making Blurred Frenzy a 30 second cool down without the trait, and Ele getting reverted to the old Ele where people refused to L2P and only L2P’d after they got over-buffed. This also means revert Ele down-state.
-Realistically speaking, this isn’t going to happen. So lets move on to the next reasonable thing to happen in the next patch.

2.) Find Equilibrium on Ranger or Guardian efficiency.
-Remove Time Warp from tPVP, bring back the old Moa, something like Ele’s sustain cut in half on self and half on others.
-Or don’t even cut Ele’s sustain in half, make Ride The Lightning a target only skill. Hell even if both Ele sustain and mobility gets cut I bet they would still be a decent class.
-Give Warrior a more accessible Building Momentum, Leg Specialist, and buffed Mobile Strikes.

3.) Make Warrior a broken class at full potential.
-Leave the traits as it is.
-Give Warrior Triple Swap at a 10 second base cool down with a 5 second cool down on Fast Hands.

I’m looking at number 2 and 3. The least ANET can do is find something around number 2. If they can’t figure out how to make something work around number 2, then its official to ask “Why didn’t ANET hire a bunch of monkeys to balanced this game instead of incompetent people who didn’t find the decency to actually see the problems within their game?”

The question: is it possible to balance patch all the baddies in this game?
The answer : No, no humanly possible to dumb down the game more than this, maybe changing game would be the the most obvious answer

lmao so typical. one side accuses classes of being op, then the people who play those classes accuse the others of being bad. let’s leave it to Anet to decide.

Sand Beagle.9867:

Arheundel.6451:

Royce.6835:

Arheundel.6451:

Miko.5726:

Tell me the advantages of the rifle? Do you know the F1-skill? If that was an instant-skill, yes, it would be nice … but it´s only a dream, not reality.

Btw i don´t play a full 100 % glass cannon-build. Atm i try this one

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR3ejgO1wxOCPMRCAkCsyyowIgUKs7uUBxA;TsAA1CnoQygkAJLSOkkItgYQxGEA

Do you think to be the only profession with long activation skill? At the very least people must do something in order to avoid the automatic homing of Killshot, they must dodge or block…they can’t simply walk away from it like against a staff ele, but the fact is that I plan my aoe so that I can hit people with it…even if they need 4s to activate, sometimes tactics is required to win….too many professions with auto-homing skills in this game ( thief-mesmer are the most hateful profession as they’ve got almost everything on auto-homing)…between HS auto-facing/leap-auto homing and blurred frenzy invulnerability/auto-face…it’s sad enough already

I see where you’re coming from my friend, but in this game it is already hard enough to land projectiles. (unless you’re a ranger because their bow shooting speed is so high, it doesnt matter if they miss a few arrows. Also because their arrows can be set to pierce.)

Even if Kill Shot was on instant cast 10k wombo combo damage, people could randomly dodge roll out of it at any second. Not only that, but with the amount of mesmers, necromancers and rangers running around, all with 50+ pets and clones out on the field, there is virtually no way to land any type of big projectile on a player unless it pierces through multiple enemies. And even if you were to land your big Kill Shot, you would have spent so much time carefully setting it up, that the person you’re trying to kill would have already killed 2 of your teammates and taking very little dps from you in general when you could have been up close whacking him with your SUPPOSED 3k axe auto attacks.

Oh wait.. if you get that close with your axe you get roflchilledcrippledslowedfearedkitedaoe’d and then once you die everyone from both teams comes over to your body and takes a massive dump on your chest, just because of how pathetic your attempts were.

Or you could have used killshot on a target with half HP and with now way to reach him in time before he heals himself up to full HP, or you could have crippled if he was trying to flee, or just soft him with bleeding and volley shot before going with the lol 3k axe auto-attack and finish him off before taking too much dmg and retreat again to safe distance…and pls don’t tell me a rifle warrior got an hard time landing projectiles on a single target when called

Uhh, i dont know if you have actually used the rifle, but it is not nearly as glorious as you describe. This game has unimaginably bad hit detection, so if by some miracle you dont get obstructed/missed/invincible, then you still have to roll the dice and see if they will do a random spastic evade, or a timed evade if they were watching you slowly grandpa yourself on to one knee, calmly exhale, draw your gun, look for scratches, polish the barrel, test the wind direction, inhale, line up the sights, lick your lips, count to ten, and then finally fire.

In the end the chance your killshot will land is 1/10, on a good day.

I laughed so kittening hard at the description of kill shot

Skyro.3108:

The quicker you start treating shatter mesmers as though they were a meele class the faster you will learn to fight them. It’s nearly impossible to hit players from range with shatters, and if they use a staff as an offhand you have nothing to really worry about in terms of ranged damage outside of phantasms. And the iLeap to set up the shatter spike is very easy to spot if you’re at range as well.

Also I wouldn’t get too worked up over targeting. OP doesn’t list his class but many classes can just range/aoe down the Mesmers clones which really messes with their DPS. I would say the vast majority of players think the correct way to fight mesmers is to just find the real mesmer and try to spike him down in meele range, when in reality that is often the worst thing you can do.

Yep. I stay far away from mesmers unless it’s 1v1, or if they are about to die and i can finish them. melee range near a shatter mesmer is suicide.

actually, i just tried several variations of balanced builds. that’s the problem with warrior. their traits are subpar and do not allow them to build defensively without being SEVERELY outclassed.

please. do not make me post clips of my damage on a dummy showing you the differences. the defense gain is NOT high enough for the dps loss. my dps is divided by 3-4. that’s way too high. i don’t like how you talk as if you know all this and tested it.. because i know for a fact if you really tested it, you wouldn’t be here arguing with me, you’d be agreeing that warriors need changes to their defensive capabilities.

that’s what this thread is about, or at least what most of the people in this thread agree on. it’s that we don’t WANT to play our warriors like thieves or assassin glass cannons. we want the ability to diversify without gimping ourselves severely.

aaron.7850:

“I cannot understand a class or how to fight them, please remove them from the game”

Oh I know how to beat them, and in a 1v1 situation I can certainly kill mesmers that aren’t good.

But lets make an analogy. If we create a class and give him a 1200 range ability which is instant cast and deals 50k unmitigated damage to any target on a 5 second cooldown, you would say thats op right?

Right?

OK, now that we know that’s OP, I will come in here (I main this class that can do 50k damage)

“Wow, L2p nubs. what. u don’t know how to dodge? Stupid warrior. use endure pain. Wow. Dumb Ele. Use mist form to counter my wombo combo ability l2p.”

So all the sudden everyone is forced to change the way they play and focus down this 50k damage class and the game is balanced around IT because it’s so powerful and can only be countered in a few ways. Obviously this is an exaggeration and is only meant for you to understand the concept

Why should we have to jump through hoops to fight a class that is too strong?

MatyrGustav.6210:

So what if it was made that attacks pierce them? Since the clones are not really real so everything damages and pierces through them.?

but that wouldnt solve the melee situation, its just a mess.

its a targeting nightmare. they should be more squishy or something.

haha well it’s not really about targeting. it’s easy to find the right mesmer among the clones it’s just that melee’ing them is not an option since any mesmer who knows what they’re doing is running a shatter build and as soon as u get close to their clones, you’re going to take a happy feet that ain’t falco wombo combo amount of damage.

Ayestes.1273:

Royce.6835:

i find it vastly humorous when people act like the only problem with fighting a mesmer is finding the real one among their clones. lol. as if people above rank 20, or even rank 2 still have that problem.

It’s not the only reason. It is the primary topic of the original post however. Beyond the clones though, they really only have displacement and distortion to keep them alive. Unless it’s in hotjoin, then they usually also bring stealth because they never bring Illusion of Life nor Portal in that case. Mesmers are entirely still beatable, less so as a pure melee as usual.

As it stands though, it’s clear you don’t want any actual discussion on the topic. You simply want to restate your opinion without any details repeatedly. This kind of supposed discussion on a forum doesn’t accomplish anything productive at all, unless you see provoking negative forum reactions as something productive. Especially in the case where you assume too much about other posters. With that kind of discussion, I’m simply going to move onto other threads.

It’s been discussed and stated multiple times. I’m not going to repeat the voices of thousands of people everytime I speak to someone. You should know what’s wrong with mesmers without me explaining it. Arenanet knows… whether they choose to change it or not doesn’t have anything to do with what I say here to you.

KAAAAAGE BUUNSHIN NO JUTSU!!!!
poofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoofpoof

Dual.8953:

Royce.6835:

kostbabis.8791:

^yeah..Anet what are you doing??clones seriously?
Quick change every class core mechanic to a stupid burst skill that builds up with some kind of energy.Then give them a big sword to swing to each other and see the interesting gameplay that develops afterwards ..
hehe :P

Every other game, even guild wars 1, managed to create classes without clones or excess number of “pets” and were very successful.

Thing is, they tried to create something fun and innovative and didn’t realize that something fun for pve could be terribly terribly wrong for pvp

Necromancers in GW1 could go around with up to 12 minions, though I’ll admit it was significantly harder to manage that feet in PvP due to lack of corpses.

In any case clones are far from perfect and all it should take is on missed step to give away the mesmer, at least to the trained eye. Also the game has at least 3 methods of targetting,

i find it vastly humorous when people act like the only problem with fighting a mesmer is finding the real one among their clones. lol. as if people above rank 20, or even rank 2 still have that problem.

Ayestes.1273:

I’m so confused as to whether this is all satire or not now. Regardless, Mesmers aren’t nearly as much as an issue to me personally as they used to be. It’s possible because they blow two elite slots on Illusion of Life and Portal now coupled with all of the nerfs, or it’s possible it’s because I’ve got better at tracking the real Mesmer without hesitation. The clone mechanic is extremely interesting to me, even if frustrating at first when dealing with it. Also to make it clear, I only really play an Engineer.

i find it vastly humorous when people act like the only problem with fighting a mesmer is finding the real one among their clones. lol. as if people above rank 20, or even rank 2 still have that problem.

MasterGeese.4756:

I don’t care if its balanced or not, I still want to be able to fight someone else without getting lolheartseekered by 4 thieves at once.

At worst, I get lolheartseekered by only one thief at once.

i lol’d

kostbabis.8791:

^yeah..Anet what are you doing??clones seriously?
Quick change every class core mechanic to a stupid burst skill that builds up with some kind of energy.Then give them a big sword to swing to each other and see the interesting gameplay that develops afterwards ..
hehe :P

Every other game, even guild wars 1, managed to create classes without clones or excess number of “pets” and were very successful.

Thing is, they tried to create something fun and innovative and didn’t realize that something fun for pve could be terribly terribly wrong for pvp

Ayestes.1273:

Royce.6835:

Well, essentially, they should be deleted from the game.

If you are going to start a post with this it’s unlikely you are going to get anything you intended once people are laughing and no longer taking your post seriously. I understand your frustration and the like, but to even consider deleting a profession or mechanic from the game as a valid response is just silly.

the only people that would laugh are mesmers. and even then, their laughs and l2p comments are only there to make it seem like i’m the one who’s bad.. so your op class stays op.

my main problem with the class isn’t any specific thing they can do.. or learning to dodge or mitigate their damage, it’s their core design. Making clones of themselves? seriously? In a pvp game? Clones?

There’s a reason why naruto is so stronk. it’s cause he can make so many clones of himself. it’s a forbidden jutsu bro. and u fools spam that crap. rename mesmer to naruto and rename all your abilities to kage buunshin no jutsu and then we’ll talk seriously.

Schwahrheit.4203:

1. Challenge them to play classes that takes skill
2. 99% of them will deny the challenge anyways so..
3. Don’t get worked up, 99% of the Mesmer population hides their low skill in a class that takes zero skill
4. No seriously, if you’re actually a good Mesmer I’d like to see you apply what you “learned” on a Mesmer on something that actually takes effort to work. Probably only 1% of the Mesmer population actually has the balls to actually prove me wrong.

But yeah, understand that Mesmer is a Low Risk, High Reward class. Nothing to get worked up about when you lose to them cause you don’t have a Mesmer or you’re playing a class that needs effort.

P.S Maybe learn2balance the game better ANET.

get in your vent lolol

Arheundel.6451:

Royce.6835:

Walorx.5129:

They shouldn’t be deleted from the game at all, it takes any skilled player a matter of seconds to decipher the player from the clones. Also, in regards to beating them, I find AOE attacks and just being patient to find the right target is crucial to beating them.

Lmao. OK sorry for laughing. Yes I always know which mesmer is the real one. It’s very obvious. Problem is you are quick to say “if you are a skilled player, you can beat them.”

BUT, what if the Mesmer is also a skilled player? What if he carefully runs around inside his clones, and as soon as you get into melee range, you get shatter wombo combo’d and everyone laughs at you?

Are you saying now I must be a ranged class in order to win? Fine, I’ll put on my rifle since I’m a warrior. Oh wait. Good luck landing any of your non-piercing projectiles in the middle of a real team fight. 95% of your shots will get dodged, obstructed, and will hit enemy clones and pets as the mesmer runs and weaves through his team.

So what is the answer?

Run or call for help!
No that’s no joke at all, I rarely do it because ( luckily) they are not too many skilled mesmers, but once even my staff build fail..got no other choice but to call for support

Lol, well i only play in tournaments now and the players in paid tournaments are almost always good players.

Walorx.5129:

They shouldn’t be deleted from the game at all, it takes any skilled player a matter of seconds to decipher the player from the clones. Also, in regards to beating them, I find AOE attacks and just being patient to find the right target is crucial to beating them.

Lmao. OK sorry for laughing. Yes I always know which mesmer is the real one. It’s very obvious. Problem is you are quick to say “if you are a skilled player, you can beat them.”

BUT, what if the Mesmer is also a skilled player? What if he carefully runs around inside his clones, and as soon as you get into melee range, you get shatter wombo combo’d and everyone laughs at you?

Are you saying now I must be a ranged class in order to win? Fine, I’ll put on my rifle since I’m a warrior. Oh wait. Good luck landing any of your non-piercing projectiles in the middle of a real team fight. 95% of your shots will get dodged, obstructed, and will hit enemy clones and pets as the mesmer runs and weaves through his team.

So what is the answer?

Well, essentially, they should be deleted from the game. Not just this sword stun and clone explosion build you speak of… but just the fact that they can clone themselves. Not only does cloning confuse people, but it also blocks projectiles if the mesmer is running around in a manner that a chicken with his head cut off would run around in.

This problem is also prevalent in necromancers who choose the build that allow them to summon 6+ pets. These two classes along with rangers make a 5v5 battle look like a 5v30 battle, assuming there are 2 mesmers, 2 necromancers and a ranger on the same team. Which is actually a pretty good composition in itself.

jportell.2197:

Dueled a warrior in WvW (I know this is pvp) BUT this guy ran Sword/Shield GS combo and he was a beast. I’m sorry I think warriors are fine.

“I am a very inexperienced pvper. I fought a warrior who was just as bad as me. He wrecked me. Warriors are fine.”

Can’t find how to get this GS in sPvP. If anyone has heard of someone getting it or has gotten it before and remembers what tier it is please inform me

Rika.7249:

I guess it’s because of the following:

A scripted Player vs. Enemy fight needs to be rewarding because it sort of equals the “story” of an ordinary game, while PvP sort of equals the multiplayer bit of an ordinary game. I’m also not entirely sure what you expect to rewarded with.

You have cosmetics. Check.
You have consumables for PvP. Check.
You want… Gold? Questionable.

Nah, just needs more visible ranking and a ladder. The real thing that fuels PvP isn’t in-game rewards. It’s ranking. When people see that there are 300 other people higher rank than him, suddenly they want to play more. When people can see other peoples stats, this also encourages people to be better players. This is proven in League of Legends and other mobas. Just hope that gw2 takes the right direction

The way gw2 pvp feels right now is “lets all just fight each other for fun” you join a match, you play for fun. You don’t lose ranking for being a bad player. In fact, you don’t lose anything ever for being bad. And people can’t search you and see that you’re bad so there is no incentive to be good (except for the handful of people that set out to dominate right from the start without any incentive).

daydream.2938:

Because , if we had gear, players who played longer would build up an artifical advantage.

Look at league of legends-every play starts every match equal footing. Yes it has items, but its not an mmo where they last, everyone starts on an EVEN footing. Nothing is earned over the long run , yet millions of people play league.

The same is true of tournies. People start on an even footing (minus class balance and skill). Gear should not be a variable in pvp.

Yes, you are correct. League of legends found the one thing that “works” in pvp that everyone loves and keeps flocking to. However I dont think OP is asking for “gear”… he’s asking for a reward in general. Could be anything.

But what I think REALLY needs to be done is make the whole pvp scene more competitive. Let’s look at league of legends again. the difference between LoL and Gw2 is the fact that LoL is way more competitive. It has elo, leaderboards, and million dollar championships. If someone is good in LoL, EVERYONE knows it and everyone has a way to “show off” how good they are with their elo ranking or whatever it is they have.

In gw2, there is no reliable way to show off how good you are. The tournaments are there, but at the same time it feels like they’re not. Everything feels like its not really there, like as if you’re doing everything for nothing. To make gw2 pvp as desirable as LoL pvp they would have to revamp the whole tournament and ranking system. (which i think is very necessary to move on to bigger and better things)

Dralor.3701:

Just don’t agree that 100b is the end all for the class, the mobility of the GS is great but axe/mace has plenty of killing power as well without locking you in an animation.

Completely agree on the only viable way to play being full glass, assassin style, get in/get out. Thief just does it better with lower risk given stealth, so warrior essentially fills no niche other than a high mobility DPS (which again thief does, with less liability).

Exactly. You said what I wanted to say much more concisely.

Schwahrheit.4203:

@OP

No, that is NOT how you play a Warrior. That type of thinking is bad infrastructure. You don’t play Warrior like Thief.

Assassin and Carry (I’m even willing to put Initiator up there but I’ll only cover carry for now) are two different roles.

Assassin’s role (Thief perspective):

-Burst down important targets when given an opening.
-Picking the right time to burst targets. Just because a target doesn’t have a stun break, doesn’t mean you use Venom burst and don’t pay attention to the guy about to burn a utility/elite to res him. Thief has a VERY hard time downing people in a team fight, Warriors don’t really have as much of a problem with this.
-Find openings within AoE as you have a hard time trading hits with AoE at all. Short Bow AoE compared to Combustive Shot or well-timed HB doesn’t even come close. Let alone most other AoE’s in the game to be honest.
-Inherently a good duelist, you should be able to duel most classes.

Carry’s role (Warrior’s perspective):

-Provide damage out-put in a large scale. Mostly through AoE. 95% of the Warriors DO NOT know how to AoE with a Warrior. This is a big fail on infrastructure and the community being a bunch of sheeps on people who are deemed “top Warriors” who believe that there is only one viable build for Warriors which is full melee. Dumbest logic ever, you don’t see a Thief going full-melee in high level play and succeeding right? Okay, maybe one Thief but that’s like what? One out of the many other Thieves who use a Short Bow because they can’t trade hits with AoE? Yeah.
-Since you have damage out-put on a large scale, you need to use it to make it hard for people to get back up from down state. This is what a carry has over an assassin, the ability to easily down people as a DPS the moment they do get down. Warriors definitely finish downed people better than Thieves.
-Most importantly, be someone worth protecting and making plays around. This part should be EASY to understand because guess what? What good team composition isn’t going to have stuns, immobilizes and condition cleansing? This should be a given and it just happens that GOOD Warriors take advantage of these things easily. Just that most people who played Warriors are either attached to forgiving classes such as Mesmers, new, or just didn’t have the decency to get better.

So Warrior compared to Thief? There is definitely a reason to pick one over the other. Point being though is.. Warrior and Thief roles aren’t similar even if both spec’d for DPS. Don’t even get me started on how Warriors can actually Tank and Initiate fights with the ability to hold a point while a Thief can’t.

Also about your suggestions, “condition immunity” is stupidly broken and not something that any class should even have. The only major buff that a typical glass cannon Warrior build should EVER have is for mobile strikes to cleanse slows.

Uhh… errrrr……

….

are we playing the same game? or…

:S

Ok, i’ll respond seriously. Yes the only way to play warrior is to play like a thief or “assassin” like you described. If you play it any other way you will get facerolled very quickly by people who know what they’re doing. Warriors cannot tank for teams for more than a few seconds with their shield out and possibly endure pain, nor can they survive long enough in the middle of a team fight to swing their GS around doing AoE damage like you say. That part made me laugh a bit because that’s what my whole post is about. That’s exactly what they’re UNABLE to do, when they are warriors and should be able to do it.

“Condition immunity” isn’t broken. every class has an immunity ability.. and i’d say other classes have better and more of them than warriors do which doesn’t make sense.

Look at other games for example. In League of Legends, there are three warrior champions that i can think of just off the top of my head. Master Yi has an ultimate to be immune to slows for 10 sec. Olaf has an ultimate that makes him immune to CC for 10 sec. Garen has an ability that cleanses any crippling or slowing effects on him and restores his original movement speed. In Aion, gladiators, the equivalent of warriors here have an entire minute and a half activation of immune to slows and certain CC. It works there, why wouldnt it work here?

Like you said about mobile strikes cleansing slows, yes i agree, that might definitely fix it but I fear it wouldn’t be enough of a change.

showatt.9413:

Dralor.3701:

100b isn’t even that good, any half decent player has learned to counter/dodge that ages a go.

You can totally see it coming and prevent it unlike other spike damage, say mug+cnd+backstab, or a ranged stun then spike from a mesmer.

Not when you’re already engaged. That’s pretty much the entire point of the post…OP is tired of playing like a thief, waiting for someone to start engaging and jump them unsuspected.

I say nerf 100b and buff survive so they can go up front and tangle like a true warrior.

Yeah, I will edit my post to make that more clear I guess.