Guild Wars 2

TLDR: Vayne is right, everyone else is wrong. Move along.

So essentially this thread boils down to people wanting to do some support and be rewarded the SAME as people doing constant DPS. I have no problem with this what so ever, yet all I see in this thread is “Do damage or get out.” you guys do realize that a lot of your damage comes from support boons right? You know, the guy who makes a build especially for you guys so you can do your uber DPS and have constant boons…?

Of course they do damage too, but half the time they are setting up fields hoping one of you manage to find your other handful of keys to press aside from 1 and trigger a combo. What thanks do they get for it? “lol noob go zerk and full dps!” /facepalms

CoF rhapsody…ok I admit I laughed A LOT. Ten points for creativity there.

JJBigs.8456:

Rysinsun.7306:

Ironic really that a game which boasts not having a trinity system to make dungeon running “easier” is now plagued with people demanding that you have an exact set of gear to even be part of the group. Now I know that there are always people like that in these kind of games, and I avoid them like the plague because they tend to lack social graces and manners…

OP they did you a favor as others have said. Being kicked for having one or two slightly different pieces of gear is laughable and simply proves that one or two people in that group are indeed looking to be carried by “properly” geared players.

I always take the player over the profession/gear any day and wouldn’t you know it, I have little to no trouble finding dungeons runs as I have made friends by following this approach. Almost all of them go very smoothly too.

TLDR: A little kindness goes a long way. So my advice is to start making your own groups and expand your friends list, not only does it make future runs easier but the runs themselves easier too.

By group looking to be carried, your actually thinking the opposite.

You want to be carried by good players by wearing subpar gear, not choosing proper utilities, playing lulz classes, by other people who spec properly. Not vice versa.

Also remember, their runs go smoothly too, in fact smoother than yours. Also takes less time.

Remember “smooth” =//= efficient

I want to be carried by good players? Hmmm no I don’t think I do. But sure a lot of other people do and they tend to be the ones who cause the most drama when one person is the wrong profession or has the tiniest alteration on their gear. To each their own I guess.

Bright.9160:

Rysinsun.7306:

Now I know that there are always people like that in these kind of games, and I avoid them like the plague because they tend to lack social graces and manners…

TIL wanting to be efficient and using your right to choose who you want/don’t want to play with = lacking social graces and manners.

I’m not saying there aren’t a lot of morons and sh*tters in the CoF crowd that think they’re god’s gift to mankind, but generalizations are never good.

Well fine when I said “lacking social graces and manners” I meant the type of people who talk crap when the slightest thing goes wrong, or someone is doing 1% less damage because of <insert most nonsensical reason here> and suddenly it’s the end of the world as their farming run is going to take a whole few seconds longer.

Ironic really that a game which boasts not having a trinity system to make dungeon running “easier” is now plagued with people demanding that you have an exact set of gear to even be part of the group. Now I know that there are always people like that in these kind of games, and I avoid them like the plague because they tend to lack social graces and manners…

OP they did you a favor as others have said. Being kicked for having one or two slightly different pieces of gear is laughable and simply proves that one or two people in that group are indeed looking to be carried by “properly” geared players.

I always take the player over the profession/gear any day and wouldn’t you know it, I have little to no trouble finding dungeons runs as I have made friends by following this approach. Almost all of them go very smoothly too.

TLDR: A little kindness goes a long way. So my advice is to start making your own groups and expand your friends list, not only does it make future runs easier but the runs themselves easier too.

Wethospu.6437:

You don’t need to have 3-5 players on most dungeons yet people still want to go with full teams.
When people have run it enough times they don’t care about the challenge to get it done. They care about getting it done efficiently and easily.
That’s why they are looking for “exp lvl 80 dps exo/asc 4k ach”.

Please tell me you are joking about the 4k achievement thing. I have yet to see that but if that is going to become a trend then….oh boy starting to have bad WoW flashbacks.

Cato.3547:

Oh pls don’t come here to tell big part of the community that what they do is wrong bcs they aren’t doing like you want. Im in no obligation to to make your gaming experience more enjoyable at the cost of my own. I run mainly high lvl groups bcs that’s how i like it and i suggest you find a way to enjoy the content too w/o bugging others.

Ouch, struck a nerve? I enjoy the content by not grouping with people like you, and boy do I enjoy it so much more

Squally.4963:

Rysinsun.7306:

Squally.4963:

Wow, this thread exploded while I was gone.
I had a ranger in a fotm 30 accuse me of being an “elitist” because I booted them from my group. Our group makeup was already one guard, two thieves, and one ranger when he/she joined. Tried to explain that I booted them because we wanted more variety and preferably another heavy armor class and they were the last to join so in fairness we booted them. Just went on and on about how great rangers are and whatnot, which is all grand. But it was a my buddy’s and mine group so we decided what we wanted and what we didnt’ want.
Why can’t people get that though their heads? It’s not elitism if the person who formed the group says “I want X class in this group”, it’s personal preference. If you don’t like the way I or my group wants to play then go join another one instead of sending a billion tells after I boot you trying to explain how bad I am and how good you are. Oh well, that’s what the report feature is for lol.
Oh and btw, smoothest fotm 30 ever with that group (ended up taking a necro in place of that ranger).

If you wanted X class in your group, why did you let this ranger in to begin with knowing full well you didn’t want them? Also I find it hilarious how you wanted to replace the ranger with a heavy armour class and you took a necromancer in the end. Personally if it had been me kicked from your group, I would have simply put you on ignore and moved on since you would have already wasted enough of my time. It may not have been elitist but it sure as hell was a kitten move on your part.

They were last to join, no time to let them know or edit the lfg post before they joined. We already forsaw a bad group makeup when the second thief joined (our 4th member) so when we decided to kick one of the multiple classes we picked the last one to join since it was the most fair way to do it. The second ranger joined about 5 seconds after the second thief, so like I said, no time to let them know another ranger was not needed. But seeing as kitten near every ranger in this game has a chip on their shoulder, I bet you would have sent me a bunch of tells whining too

Yes we took a necro because we were sick of waiting around for someone to actually read our lfg post asking for a heavy instead of just joining even though they weren’t a heavy armor class. Necros can be fairly tanky btw, and it worked out nicely because both thieves were direct dmg and the necro ended up being condition dmg spec. The only person in the whole group we had a problem (dying a lot, not wanting to pick up the hammer in the wall fractal) was the ranger we decided to keep. But they got better as it went on and the other four stellar players made up for it.

So, you had a full group and could have gone but instead you decided to kick the ranger because you thought the group makeup was bad? I’m sorry but….wow. And I have had no issues with rangers and this alleged chip on their shoulder, then again I don’t kick people because they are the wrong class. Still… everyone is entitled to play their way so kudos to you for getting a good run out of it I guess.

pumpkin.6534:

I was trying to find 2 more people for a lvl4 fractal run (me being on my lvl58 warrior plus two lvl80s from my guild). We’ve all done fractals quite a lot so we know how it works.

And guess what… yep, people left the group when they noticed that I was NOT going to change to a lvl80 charater. That’s simply ridiculous. People do really think that being on a lvl80 character automatically means better gear, more skills and more experience?

How disappointing… so much for “social gaming”.

This is why I tend to try and fill as many slots possible with people that I have grouped with before, that way you only have to find one or two random people who don’t mind non 80’s. I myself don’t care what level a person is, so long as they know how to dodge and don’t go down every fight. Although I am patient and willing to give them time to learn the encounters and tells as we all have to start sometime.

People are always looking to take the easiest road and of course in this game that is being level 80 and running low level dungeons for “easy” rewards, though the fault isn’t entirely with the community on this one as much as it is with the way the game is designed.

Leo G.4501:

But I don’t die in 10 seconds flat.

Granted, I don’t have any non-80s at the moment, but I’d rather not be turned down when I do decide to level an alt. I’m actually hoping the next update features another race so I have a reason to finally play one of the professions I haven’t. Mmmm, Tengu Guardian maybe? Or Tengu Ranger.

Better make it a Tengu Warrior, otherwise you will be kicked for not being a zerker warrior even if you are level 80. /sarcastic rant off

Squally.4963:

Wow, this thread exploded while I was gone.
I had a ranger in a fotm 30 accuse me of being an “elitist” because I booted them from my group. Our group makeup was already one guard, two thieves, and one ranger when he/she joined. Tried to explain that I booted them because we wanted more variety and preferably another heavy armor class and they were the last to join so in fairness we booted them. Just went on and on about how great rangers are and whatnot, which is all grand. But it was a my buddy’s and mine group so we decided what we wanted and what we didnt’ want.
Why can’t people get that though their heads? It’s not elitism if the person who formed the group says “I want X class in this group”, it’s personal preference. If you don’t like the way I or my group wants to play then go join another one instead of sending a billion tells after I boot you trying to explain how bad I am and how good you are. Oh well, that’s what the report feature is for lol.
Oh and btw, smoothest fotm 30 ever with that group (ended up taking a necro in place of that ranger).

If you wanted X class in your group, why did you let this ranger in to begin with knowing full well you didn’t want them? Also I find it hilarious how you wanted to replace the ranger with a heavy armour class and you took a necromancer in the end. Personally if it had been me kicked from your group, I would have simply put you on ignore and moved on since you would have already wasted enough of my time. It may not have been elitist but it sure as hell was a kitten move on your part.

Azure Prower.8701:

Steven.9803:

I really dont like way point system. Sure its nice to zip from one place to another with ease, but honestly for immersion sake, I would rather ride through a zone to get to the amazing dragon or what ever, then just appering when he spanws and killing him for the sake of loot. It really takes away the epic feeling you get from slaying a beast as large as a dragon.

What would I like to see? Less waypoints, more mounts; at least mounts with a temporary speed boost, with a moderate cool down so zone size wouldn’t shrink.

It would be better if they made way points cost 1-5 gems per trip.

They are a premium after all.

I can’t tell, are you being sarcastic? If not… then think for a moment. What happens when you are dead, have no gems and nobody is around to rez you?

Ok seriously, this is beyond pathetic. Don’t want people in your group using MF gear? Then run with your guild or friends and stop grouping with randoms. Otherwise just suck it up and deal with whatever hand you are dealt. The system isn’t perfect, yes I know people are selfish but at the end of the day it’s a game and people will play it their way because it is designed to be played as such.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Rysinsun.7306:

Yes I saw that post. However this has been an issue since beta and even pointed out to A-net since beta. Quite simply I cannot understand how a lot of these “boss” encounters passed as “fun” during testing.

I will admit I have not touched fractals yet, so props to A-net if they are indeed better than open world bosses. That being said, please do follow through with improving world bosses by making them more interesting and rewarding…since your original promise was to focus on open world and not dungeons.

Didn’t we only have access to AC during beta? Not too sure, never got that high.

And yeah, not only are most the boss-fights better, but the entire dungeon mechanics are as well.

Personally, concerning open-world, I’d like to see them ramp up the difficulty on the events a lot, and have bigger consequences for failing. For example, Pertinent Path. If Shelter’s Camp falls, the Risen should co-ordinate a pincer attack on the other camp, and visa versa.

We did I believe only have access to AC yes. However world bosses were still around and I imagine one of the main culprits “diessa plateau nageling giant” was also in at that time as well. Seems like a long time ago but I do recall people mentioning the ridiculous amounts of health he had, going afk at ranged with autoattack because he was pretty predictable.

This of course is just one example of a boss done badly, I mean he’s a giant attacking a town, you would think that the town would have had defenses or something for players to use. These same defenses could be destroyed by the giant, if nobody is on the ground distracting him. Just an idea…

Edit: Oh and I dunno…maybe have him drop some loot? It would be nice.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Rysinsun.7306:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Vasham.2408:

That’s the price you pay for removing the holy trinity. No mechanics, no strategy, nothing but high HP pools and fake difficulty.

You don’t need the Trinity to create interesting mechanics.

Just saying.

Then why take out the trinity and not put in the interesting mechanics?

Just saying.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-do-PvE-bosses-seem-to-equate-to/page/3#post1176040

They’re working on it.

Also, some fights do have interesting mechanics (Lovers, for example), they’re just few and far between.

The Fractals are more interesting in that the entire dungeon has a mechanic, as opposed to just the fight.

Yes I saw that post. However this has been an issue since beta and even pointed out to A-net since beta. Quite simply I cannot understand how a lot of these “boss” encounters passed as “fun” during testing.

I will admit I have not touched fractals yet, so props to A-net if they are indeed better than open world bosses. That being said, please do follow through with improving world bosses by making them more interesting and rewarding…since your original promise was to focus on open world and not dungeons.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Vasham.2408:

That’s the price you pay for removing the holy trinity. No mechanics, no strategy, nothing but high HP pools and fake difficulty.

You don’t need the Trinity to create interesting mechanics.

Just saying.

Then why take out the trinity and not put in the interesting mechanics?

Just saying.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

This systome works just fine the only people that have a problem with it dont understand or are not good at it

Actually I enjoyed it more when I didn’t understand it. Now that I do I find it to be very bland, mundanely repetitive and well….just…boring and lacking in every area.

I hope a future update expands on their combat system in some way because I do want to like this game, but when the core element is so dull it really is detrimental to the game experience.

Eggshen.2671:

Besides all that, most didnt find pure healing or pure tanking fun. 45minute queue anyone?

Keep up the fresh and good work Anet!
/cheers

Have you tried getting a story mode dungeon going? Nobody wants to do them as the rewards are “not worth it”, which ironically equals the wait time you describe. Slightly offtopic I know but just saying…wait times are still there only now we are waiting for something else instead of class roles.

100% agree with the OP. White knights gonna hate, haters gonna hate, simple as that.

Trinity should have remained ingame but been made available to each profession in a different manner. Also don’t give me that crap about how it gets rid of people only taking certain roles to dungeons, quite a few people still do that by only looking for the most overpowered class/build at the current time. So technically the main trinity problem still exist only…without the trinity, go figure.

Must be an attempt to get people using MF gear since that works so well….

Wait for it.

Gibson.4036:

I posted the same question a week or so ago. I don’t feel like I’m leveling any slower out in the world, but I did have interesting results on a new character I just recently rolled.

I cap all six cities right out of the tutorial area before doing anything else. I used to get to about midway through level 8 doing this.

On my most recent toon I only got midway through 5.

I was wondering if exploration XP got nerfed.

Exploration experience in cities appear to have been nerfed yes. I noticed this with an alt of mine when I only got 20exp for a vista instead of the usual 60-80 in Divinity’s Reach. Went out into Queensdale and sure enough I got the proper amount we used to get. I have no idea why they nerfed city exploration experience, it was always a nice way to get slightly ahead of the starting zone and make things a little easier…./shrugs

Gilosean.3805:

Yeah, the krait witch champion in Caledon Forest is just as bad with one-shots, plus she’s got ridiculous range.

ANet is working on making low-level content more appealing to high level players, so that should help the issue of not having enough people around. Honestly, I like having waypoints cost money, but the way they’ve set the scale it’s really hard for high-level players to want to do low / mid level zones.

They are fixing bugs, though. Bug-fixing is a slow process, and the games only been out a few months. That’s what we get for being early adopters.

Very true. I hope they do make lower level zones more appealing to everyone because I am somewhat of a completionist, I see an event and like to get it done. Not gonna happen if there is only me there or some others who never seem to bother reviving people who are downed because it lowers their DPS -.-

Everyone is doing FotM right now which may as well stand for “Flavor of the Month” as nobody really seems interested in much else PvE wise unless you are guilded or run a premade group. Those way points will remain contested until the issue is fixed, assuming it does get fixed of course.

The same can be said about a lot of events unfortunately. The incentive to repeat these events simply is not there (chance of unique skin or mini pet for example) and as you say items, exp and karma can be farmed in better places. Shame really.

Please scale low level group events down if there is only a few players around. As a level 24 engineer with toughness, vitality and some power behind me, vitality trait line on 10 and working on toughness and healing power trait line…also carrying elixir gun kit for the extra heal I still get two shotted by these over powered champion mobs in starter zones (granted not all but the tomb in ashford with the caster for example…my god).

Why? Because for some reason these encounters are designed to need more people to revive me WHEN I go down (not if) instead of actually rewarding skillful playing. Making a champion mob one or two shot a pretty much full defense specced player is ludicrous, especially when I am the only person there.

Now I know it’s a GROUP event but surely everyone knows by now that some zones are just dead, or people don’t even want to do group events as they are not even worth their time (according to them). So why punish people that actually want to do it with poor scaling and cheap mechanics? Please do something about it. Even if the solution is to give people a reason to do group events again and not just in low level areas either (this would solve two problems instead of one).

Next up, re-introducing the trinity system and 20 man instance raids complete with even more tiers. Seems like Anet is just scrolling through their list of promises and ticking off each one they go back on.

This is what happens when you tailor a game towards casual players and throw in RNG. I totally agree that rewards are far more RNG than contribution based right now, essentially the same as dynamic events which you can run in tag something and move on then get a gold a few minutes later. Meanwhile the people contributing the most (rezzing, buffing and not getting killed) get a silver or bronze. End of the day RNG handed you a stick instead of a carrot, not fair I know but it’s part of the “grand design” and of course it’s “fun” too….

But…but….it’s more “fun” this way, just wait you will see….

Mr Crazy Moose.5760:

Karizee.8076:

Those whose focus is loot only will only see loot from the event.
The rest of us partook in an epic adventure and saw Tyria change in front of our very eyes.

and those of us who took part in the ending event saw invisible crabs killing mostly invisible zergs.

Wait, that’s what we didn’t see.

QFT and I see what you did there.

Agree 100% with OP. Anet we love your game and want it to work as much as you do so please fix it!

http://i.qkme.me/3opzfm.jpg

It’s funny how they cater the majority of the game to casuals yet make things like this. Being one or two shot by a boss that decides to spam a certain ability, especially if there is no tell tale sign that it is incoming is frustrating. I don’t claim to be a casual player yet sometimes even I am amazed at how often I can just be downed before knowing whats happened. This is also with me typically putting points into toughness to allow an extra hit or two.

The difficulty in this game seems to spike almost as much as the damage from champions mobs, some bosses hit like a wet noodle while others kill you by looking at you. I am hoping this is just a fine tuning issue that will gradually be fixed over time because like you guys have said and I fully agree, one shots are NOT fun for anybody.

I agree 100% with the OP.

Coming from Tera myself I really do miss the ability to block/dodge effectively and have it actually matter. Having to sit there and take hits because they can’t be reacted on is stupid, mainly of course this is ranged attacks which Tera handled fairly well. You could dodge projectiles by strafing or just block the attacks depending on your class. Ranged classes were encouraged to move in closer to melee range to reduce their miss chance and actually increase their damage too. Not to mention having a FEW lock-on skills which followed the target until it either hit them or the target evaded/blocked the attack.

How to fix PVE (temporarily at least)? Give us more reaction based skills that aren’t on ridiculous cool downs that can be used at least once per fight. This whole idea of spamming auto attack and maybe pressing a few extra buttons if the situation demands it…is BORING. Especially when it’s one of those ten minute fights with a boss who does not even drop anything (nageling giant).

How to fix PVP? I don’t really do much but as far as balancing goes surely it would be easiest to stick to their roots. Make skills do specific things in PVP that are slightly different compared to PVE such as shorter snares on a player, or deals more damage to a player who is stunned…

Adine.2184:

Would you be able to run full speed if you were conked on the head or shot with something? I doubt it. Kill stuff and move on dont be a baby .

Oh gee why didn’t anyone think of that? I guess it makes perfect, I mean it’s not like anyone is able to instantly teleport across the world or anything…. right?

Seriously, it’s bad enough that way point travel costs scale with level but if an ettin decides to break wind in my direction because I decided to actually walk… I suddenly turn into a cripple? Also, instant respawns and tightly packed mobs kind of put a hamper on the “just kill it and move on” approach.

AuroraFlare.1682:

ArenaNet really needs to do something about the lower levelled areas. I just made a human character and literally no one is in Queensdale, the Shaemoor region to be more specific…

Same here, and my server is classed as high population (Underworld) I would hate to think what the low population servers are like.

Shameless bump just because

I too have grown bored of just spamming auto attack for the majority of every fight, sometimes using the odd utility skill (most have stupidly long cool downs) or weapon skill that has a minor cool down. More reaction based short cool down skills are needed to make combat more involving and less of a snore fest. Lets make those fights with mobs that have stupidly high health pools more than just auto attack spamming and dodging before they sneeze on you shall we?

xiv.7136:

Game is packed. Friends list is full. Still see lowbies everywhere who are new to the game when levelling my lowbie ele.

Just because they are not in the same area as you at 4am doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

Earn your $ forum trolls.

Nice try, but even at peak times it’s a chore in itself to find people to do group events with. People are too spread out and the incentive to travel back to lower level areas isn’t there once it is fully explored. I have seen many group events active for prolonged times on my server and any attempt to inform people on map chat is met with silence.

And to the people saying “transfer to a more populated server”, can you not see that it was server transfers in the first place that caused quite a lot of this mess? People not wanting to be on a crappy WvW server and moving off it is just one example…Also I am on Underworld and even at off peak times the population is high according to the server screen.

Gone back to playing Rift myself, new expansion with a ton of content incoming and a well designed game at it’s core. Plenty of things to do and always that feeling of progression, people actually taking part in world events and rift events. I love GW2 and really do hope it improves on itself as time progresses, but right now I have hit a wall and see no way over, the lack of people on my server does not help either.

GhostDF.2610:

In my personal opinion DE rewards should at be at least 5 times greater than they are now. Also, they should be tied to your level not the level of an area. That would solve many problems. Another great thing would be if they implemente unique rewards for some DEs.

Before release I was given to understand that this was how it was supposed to work anyway. Harder events gave a fair chance at slightly better loot and more karma/exp as they require longer periods of time and more people.

As it stands right now one has to simply ignore group events and move on to easier ones, due to population problems and population mentality. Also the lack of exp scaling up in lower level zones while being a higher level is VERY noticeable, not even close to what you would get in a level appropriate zone. This leads to people following the typical trail of moving onto higher level zones and forgetting about the lower ones as it isn’t worth their time.

All of the above leads to the problems we have in this post, nobody around to do these events, or to even want to do them as it isn’t worth their time….Anet needs to address this in some way and give people more incentive to take part in lower level stuff and group events in general.

I decided to travel to the low level areas (1-15) and almost every single group event was active. Nobody even attempting to do them, and map chat was simply empty. My attempts to gather even a small group of players willing to clear the events was met with silence. I did see a couple of people attempt to take on the flame shaman in Ashford but they died within seconds, as the event is tuned for more people. :/

Having the same problem but with a much smaller area, the ash tribune quarters in black citadel. Stuck on loading screen, having to log another character in to get my other one unstuck, she ends up back in black citadel but still unable to enter the tribune quarters. Guess I’ll be leaving my story quests for now :/

This has happened to me many times and it makes me sad. I would love for the more difficult events to scale down further so that anyone with some degree of skill has a chance of finishing them alone if literally nobody else is around. As it stands right now some events just cannot be done solo and nobody even cares in map chat, they are too busy grinding hearts believing that everything gets better at 80. I love this game but it really bothers me that the current scaling system is still tailored towards large groups of people still actually being in every zone.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Sort of a gross oversimplification of dungeon’s in other MMOs…. yes you do have tank n’ spank, but you also have bosses with some very interesting mechanics that you have to deal with.

There’s nothing wrong with the general idea of the GW2 style except for the fact that there’s often little need to spam boons or heals on other players, or use combo fields. The truly necessary co-op part is sort of missing other than the simple fact that “soloing this dungeon is likely very long or not possible so I need 4 other chaps to add their damage so I can get out of her in some timely fashion”.

This. So many skills seem wasted either because their cool down is too long or their effect isn’t noticeable without combos being used. Auto attack and kiting/dodging can only be fun for so long and used for a limited number of “fresh” boss encounters. More reaction based skills on reasonable cool down timers are needed imo. This would allow for more interesting fight mechanics instead of the way point DPS zerg racing we have now. Not to mention offer more variety when dealing with combat instead of simply kiting and dodging.

Building a game around the idea of no trinity was a great idea, but I have to wonder why they stuck with the whole heavy/medium/light armor approach and promote statistics that basically mimic the trinity without giving you the tools to complete the build (taunts and proper heals). Doesn’t that seem kind of… counter intuitive?