Guild Wars 2

It becomes even more ridiculous once you start doing this in other ways. For example, you and a friend can both get 2 legendaries at the price of 1, with one of you getting Eternity as well by making Twilight and Sunrise between you two, trade it to one person, bind them, trade Eternity to the other person, bind Eternity.

It just breaks on so many levels that whichever way you look at it, its just a huge loophole.

This is the kind of stuff I like to be discussed. In my guild there is a couple who actually sort of do this. They first collect a legendary for one of them, then they collect one for the other. From now on they can just save up for the Sunrise and Twilight and use this loophole to get the skin unlocked on both their characters, almost double the reward for the same effort. I say almost because they wont actually have 2 Sunrises and 2 Twilights, but they will have Eternity on one character and the skins of Sunrise and Twilight on both characters.

Zaxares.5419:

I don’t think this will be as much of an issue as you think it will be.

You assume that people can buy Sunrise and Twilight for, say, 2500g each, unlock their skins, merge them to Eternity, then sell Eternity for 5000g. “I just got both skins for free!”

Except that:

a) The market of people who can afford to drop 5000g on a weapon skin is pretty small. (And odds are, most of the super wealthy players like TP Barons or hardcore farmers probably already have these Legendary skins and have no need to buy more.)

b) There will be a LOT of Sunrise/Twilight owners who are all looking to do the same thing, resulting in a glut of Eternities on the market (and ironically, perhaps a shortage of Sunrises and Twilights). In a worst case scenario, the price of Eternity might actually drop BELOW the price of Sunrise or Twilight, meaning that those Eternity owners would be selling at a hideous loss.

This could result in a hilarious situation where it might actually be cheaper to buy Eternity and unlock all 3 skins. At that point, wouldn’t it be easier just to use the darn skin yourself and get out of the free-falling market while you still can, rather than vainly trying to compete with the dozens of other Eternity sellers out there (and eating multi-hundred gold listing fees in the process)?

It can and it has already been mentioned about 5 times in this thread. In order to get some progress instead of running the same discussion in a loop I asked people to refrain from looking at it from a markets point of view. Even if they aren’t free, still 2 people are able to use the skin of Twilight and Sunrise even though only one of each weapon was made. That’s the issue I’d like to be discussed from now on, not whether they will actually become free or not.

Guys please just stop talking about markets and prices. It is irrelevent. The post was intended to show that people are able to unlock the Twilight and Sunrise skins in a way that is most likely not intended. I’m pretty sure Arenanet didn’t intend for more than one person to unlock Sunrise and Twilight skins for one Eternity made. That’s what this post is about.

The part about the market and stuff has been discussed to no end and in the end we can only speculate on prices. Arenanet once made a post about how they increased the drop rate of precursers from the forge as an attempt to decrease their prices only to find out their price doubled after the change. Markets behavior are indeed complex which is why I think we should drop that part of the discussion.

The only question at hand is whether Arenanet intended people to unlock Sunrise and Twilight in this manner and how they could adress this issue.

For the last time please STOP talking about economics because this is a subject you can keep speculating about to no end. I’m not saying any of you are wrong about the market changes, I just don’t think they are relevent in this discussion anymore.

FXLEACH.9436:

lol wat. lot of assumptions in that post ^

People might be able to make two legendaries (twilight and sunrise) and then get back a huge chunk of money.

If I make two legendaries, say quip and frostfang, I get nothing back .

There is little to no effort in obtaining eternity if all one wants are twilight and sunrise weapon skins as the mystic forge recipe for eternity, aside from twilight and sunrise, is really easy to obtain: it’s just 5 piles of crystalline dust and 10 philosopher stones

So really, this is unethical. And your assumptions are massive, Shockwave, and decrease the validity of all your arguments in a big way.

This is also a valid argument. Even if you don’t get all the money you invested, you still get a hefty chunk. And like you say, you don’t get any money back from any of the other legendaries. I agree with everyone that says you wont get all the money back you spent, but still you get more than the 0g you get back after unlocking the bifrost skin.

Shockwave.1230:

There’s a lack of understanding in this thread. This isn’t a big issue. If supply goes up prices come down. The supply of eternity, which is already insanely low, will go up, the price will come down and reach an equilibrium with twilight and dawn.

The 3 won’t be the same price, eternity will always be more than both, because eternity unlocks 5 skins, Dawn, Dusk, Sunrise, Twilight, and Eternity. Twilight only unlocks itself and Dusk. Sunrise only unlocks itself and Dusk.

Since Eternity is THE high roller status item in GW2 due to it being the only item that requires 2 legendaries, there will always be a consistent demand for it, as the number of players that want to show it off aren’t changing. The supply is changing.

The demand is also going to go up, because Eternity unlocks 3 legendary skins instead of 1 as previously mentioned.

What this means is that supply and demand are increasing. The reason demand is increasing, again, is the additional unlocks eternity provides. The reason supply would increase is because a portion of the player base understands that by unlocking twilight and sunrise then selling eternity you can get about 3.5 legendary skins with the current rates.

Eternity will reign as the most valuable legendary due to it being a status symbol of the game and the fact that it’s a Greatsword, one of the most popular and most demanded weapons, I feel like I have to repeat this. It won’t fall below other legendaries ever unless someone has an insane amount of gold deliberately manipulate the market to do otherwise (John Smith might be the most feasible person to make this happen and it wouldn’t necessarily be due to him actually having enough gold).

Tl;dr
This “issue” has extremely little, if anything to do with market impact. Because the only market impact will be a decreased rate of inflation on legendaries. What this ultimately comes down to is some people think it’s unfair that for the effort of 2 legendaries people can get 2 skins + eternity ‘s market value ( a bit more than 1.5 legendary skins, ala 3.5 skins total) for the effort of getting 3 skins (eternity, twilight, and Sunrise). That’s ultimately what it is, jealousy of some people having the option to say “I don’t want eternity, because I’m less concerned about it as a status item. I’d rather have another legendary skin and progress towards a 4 instead”

You guys keep talking about the market impact, but the real problem is that for a single Eternity made two people are able to use sunrise and twilight skins, double the amount that I think ArenaNet intends. This will decrease the rarity of both Sunrise and Twilight at a fast rate. Even if they aren’t ‘free’, they’d still suffer from this issue.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Why are they not worth the same? They’re exactly the same items, except one is not tradable whilst the other is. Once you wield it it’s exactly the same.

Yes, they are exactly the same items. Except now one cannot be traded and is worth 0 gold (because it can’t be traded). While the others remain tradeable and are worth 5k+ gold. Yeah, once you wield them sure, they are exactly the same, but until that point one is worth nothing and the other is worth 5k. Even though they are the same item. You can’t see where the person with the first might be kittened off that they can’t sell theirs like person B can, simply because they chose to make theirs after a specific date?

When did I even mention anything about recreating Eternity?

Just covering all the bases here.

Except you get most of your costs back once you sell Eternity.

This doesn’t negate the fact that you did own and did bind the others though.

This is also no different than retaining the skin for another item after salvaging it, and selling the materials for more than that skin was worth. No it’s not a legendary, but it’s the same concept.

I have already conceded that legendaries are inherently flawed in that they are not account bound upon acquire. However, binding one and only one would cause a kitten storm. What needs to be done, is that all legendaries should be made account bound on acquire. No longer tradeable, no longer purchasable. However, this won’t happen either because of the kitten storm it would cause. The best we can hope for at this point is that future legendaries are account bound on acquire.

So currently I can make Sunrise and Twilight, reap most of the costs back and still keep the skins?*\

Again, this is no different than salvaging an item, getting its skin, and selling the components you salvaged for more than the original item was worth. Yes, it’s not a legendary item, but it’s still the same concept. You are making profit from an item you no longer possess while still retaining the usability of that skin.

I can’t see any issues. I really can’t. If you bought/made Sunrise and Twilight to get Eternity, you clearly aren’t doing this to make a profit. If you wanted to buy Eternity outright with money, you still can. So where’s the problem?

sigh

How do you buy something outright, if there is no more supply for it because it is now account bound? If they make all future eternities account bound on acquire, once the 8 on the TP are gone, that’s it. No more supply. Of course, this is good for people selling Sunrise and Twilight, they should see a rise in their costs due to low supply and higher demand.

The main issue though is simply the kitten storm it would cause for anet, no matter what path they take. If they do nothing, people will kitten. If they go your route, other people will kitten. If they do what others suggest (account bind all legendaries), yet other will people will kitten. kitten ed if they, kitten ed if they don’t.

Can we just stop arguing in circles and get back to the core question I posed at you?

Core question? You must have updated a post while I was replying cause I didn’t catch it.

I guess it doesn’t matter. You don’t seem to understand my points, no matter how many examples or how I phrase it.

We get your points. We just fail to see how it is related to the actual thread. I mean, with dusk, you could unlock the skin and then craft twilight, same thing. However, nobody would care if you unlocked the dusk skin as cheaper weapon have this skin. It’s because the skin doesn’t stand for a big costly sum of money and time. For most players in the game Twilight and Sunrise can be their biggest achievements, yet after the update people will be able to get the skins cheaper. That’s what this topic is about, not how the wardrobe system works or is intended to work

Xae Isareth.1364:

Spiderpig.9843:

lesliejb.3615:

Wasn’t this topic already discussed at length in a wardrobe feedback thread?

If it was, please include the link to that thread. As mentioned in the original post, I’m unaware of any other section of the forum where this is being discussed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-The-Wardrobe-System/page/23#post3873645

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-Legendaries-in-Wardrobe/page/13#post3850979

Two biggest threads on this. Quite a few smaller threads. No answer from Anet so far.

Thanks a lot for the links. I still think this topic is useful however as it zooms into a single problem with the system rather than a bunch at the same time. Nevertheless, I advise everyone to take a look at there topics aswell!

lesliejb.3615:

Wasn’t this topic already discussed at length in a wardrobe feedback thread?

If it was, please include the link to that thread. As mentioned in the original post, I’m unaware of any other section of the forum where this is being discussed.

pswendel.8179:

This is the most petty of complaints in a long list of complaints.

Don’t like the fact that you already created an eternity to sell it? Well you made more gold than those who will do so after the patch. The complaints will be reversed in 30 days. Just watch.

Don’t like that your skins are all over the place now? From my point of view they already are, and in a game with no other goal – guess what? That’s the goal.

I’m not disappointed with the coming changes at all. I mean even if this ends up being a negative feature I still think all the changes compensate for it. However, I really don’t like the ’’It’s already broken’’ attitude. If it’s broken it should be fixed instead of made worse.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not.

I hardly see them as ‘free’ by any standard.

You either need to make them and equip them. True, you can sell eternity after the fact, but that still doesn’t make them ‘free’.

Or, you have to scrounge up the gold to buy them. Yes, you can still sell eternity after the fact, but at a loss. Hardly ‘free’ through that route either.

Either option takes time, and effort. Neither of which you will get back. Everything has a ‘cost’ to it.

Of course, we also have no idea how the market is going to be after the update. If we see an influx of eternities kitten many seem to believe, it’ll simply drive the cost down that much more, resulting in a larger loss if you purchased the other 2 greatswords directly. Again, hardly ‘free.’

By that logic, should we be able to just do the same for every other item in the game?

So I should be able to buy and resell Infinite Light? I made the money to ‘buy’ it in the first place. And I’m making a loss on resell.

If the price of Eternity falls, the prices of the other GSs falls as well, because they are inferior substitutes.

Sure you could buy it, and then resell it, but you wouldn’t get the skin. You either have to bind or salvage to get the skin, at which point there is no reselling.

People aren’t acquiring Twilight and Sunrise for nothing. They still have to do ‘something’ to get them. When they create eternity and sell it, they don’t get its skin. That’s the trade off. You choose to bind it for its skin, or you choose to sell it. The trade off exists, you guys just don’t think it’s a big enough one.

I feel like you are missing the point. The only way you can unlock the skin of a legendary is by actually owning them. Like after I unlock my Bifrost skin I cant sell my Bifrost as it is account bound. With Sunrise and Twilight this is different. I can unlock the skin of the legendary and get a return of my investment by creating and selling Eternity.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

Let me put this into a real life example.

You buy/build two houses. You sell said house. And after paying legal fees and stamp duty, you get to keep the houses and also the money you sold the houses for.

Does that sound sensible?

Selling something means fully transferring the ownership of an item. In this case you transferred the ownership of your sword to another and thus should not be able to own the sub-components associated with it.

To put it as an in game problem, you’re basically crafting 2 sets of Sunrise and Twilight using 1 set of materials every time you do this.

Or if you got enough money, you get 2 Legendaries next to free.

Also, to a lot of people who owns Sunrise and Twilight and do not plan to do this, it devalues their items.

There, 3 problems.

First, as people have told me hundreds of times when I try to use real life examples…. “this isn’t real life.”

Second, by your logic, the wardrobe does not work period and should not exist. You salvage an item, it’s gone. You sell an item, it’s gone. Yet their skins remain with the current implementation of the wardrobe, which has been my entire point all along. By your logic, they should not work this way. When you salvage or sell, then the skin should be removed from the wardrobe. (The pvp locker kind of works this way, but can only hold a single instance of the item.) Anet obviously decided that’t not how they want it to work. Considering they took the time to think through how ‘skin progression’ for things like Eternity or the Spinal Back piece work and how they would be implemented in the wardrobe, the developers obviously didn’t agree with your views.

The thing is: only one Eternity is crafted yet two people, me and the buyer, are able to use the skins of its components. In the spinal backpiece example it is just one person. Therefore this situation is different.

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

Let me put this into a real life example.

You buy/build two houses. You sell said house. And after paying legal fees and stamp duty, you get to keep the houses and also the money you sold the houses for.

Does that sound sensible?

Selling something means fully transferring the ownership of an item. In this case you transferred the ownership of your sword to another and thus should not be able to own the sub-components associated with it.

To put it as an in game problem, you’re basically crafting 2 sets of Sunrise and Twilight using 1 set of materials every time you do this.

Or if you got enough money, you get 2 Legendaries next to free.

Also, to a lot of people who owns Sunrise and Twilight and do not plan to do this, it devalues their items.

There, 3 problems.

I really appreciate well thought out post like this. You manage to explain the issue way better than I can do myself. +1 for the great post:)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not.

I hardly see them as ‘free’ by any standard.

You either need to make them and equip them. True, you can sell eternity after the fact, but that still doesn’t make them ‘free’.

Or, you have to scrounge up the gold to buy them. Yes, you can still sell eternity after the fact, but at a loss. Hardly ‘free’ through that route either.

Either option takes time, and effort. Neither of which you will get back. Everything has a ‘cost’ to it.

Of course, we also have no idea how the market is going to be after the update. If we see an influx of eternities kitten many seem to believe, it’ll simply drive the cost down that much more, resulting in a larger loss if you purchased the other 2 greatswords directly. Again, hardly ‘free.’

Maybe the gold you get from selling Eternity will not fully compensate for the amount of gold spent. But say its a 500g difference. It would mean I’d be able to unlock say the Twilight skin for 500g instead of the ~1800g and get the Sunrise skin for free with it. Ifcourse I would need like 3500-4000g to do this, but being able to pay 500g and unlock Sunrise and Twilight skins to me sounds like a cheat..

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight skins to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not (this comes from a person who is actually able to do this). It would mean they are no longer on the same level as the other legendaries while people have to go through the same effort if not more to get them. I’d feel like a cheat if stood next to a guy with twilight with my own exotics twilight skinned blade and ask him how much he payed for it, considering I had mine free. I’d be fine with Eternity being on the same level as the other legendaries, but then I would’ve like Sunrise and Twilight to be those expensive mystic forge exotics instead.

Holo the Wise.4179:

You have to soulbind or salvage the item to unlock the skin. Would Eternity be unbound after you merged Sunrise and Twilight?

If it uses the same mechanics as it currently does, Eternity will come out of the forge being account bound on equip instead of soul bound on equip. This means that as long as you don’t equip it you can presumably still sell it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

Well your P.S. answers it all… people usually wants the Eternity skin if they go for both GS’

But it would be kinda wicked to do to have both skins unlocked and then sell Eternity

The thing is though, how unique looking is Eternity as soon as both Twilight and Sunrise are freebies.. I’d choose a Sunrise skin+ Twilight skin + 2-3 additional legendaries over just Eternity

Hi everyone,

I along with many other players have been planning looks for my characters made possible by the upcoming wardrobe system. I’ve been collecting different looks for all my characters along with lots of weapon set combination.

One of my main focuses in this game was to collect Legendary weapons. To this day I managed to get a couple, two of which are Sunrise & Twilight. I decided against merging the two weapons and creating Eternity because I prefer the manual control of color the two blades provide over the single Eternity. When the wardrobe system was introduced, this solved my problems. I could create Eternity but also have manual control over the Sunrise and Twilight aspect, being able to just make more greatswords and adding the respective skins. AWESOME!

Unfortunately, I then came across a rather big worry: People like me will be able to unlock the Sunrise and Twilight skins before merging them into Eternity. Meaning I can unlock the skins of these legendaries, craft Eternity and then sell it. This allows me to have both Sunrise and Twilight skins unlocked on my account without owning Sunrise, Twilight or Eternity. This means as long as you have a hefty amount of gold, you can basically unlock the skins for free, considering the money you spent on crafting or buying Sunrise and Twilight is earned back by selling Eternity. You can then do whatever you want with the money, buy two or three more legendaries if you want.

I’m not sure if this is possible but if it is, Sunrise and Twilight skins will become more mainstream and worst of all a pretty much free unlock. Are there any restriction put in place to restrict people from selling Eternity after they unlocked Sunrise and Twilight skins? At this point the only solution to this problem I can see is to make Eternity account bound on acquire which to be honest isn’t the worst solution as you’re still able to buy Sunrise and Twilight skins in order to craft it yourself with relative ease.

Can I please get a developer response to this question? Or if it exists, a post which explains whether this is possible or not. I’d hate it when these legendary skins become freebies for people with enough gold.

Kind regards,
Spiderpig, a player on Far Shiverpeaks

P.S. : Note that I am aware of the fact that unlocking the Eternity skin will bind in to the account, which is why you won’t be able to unlock the Eternity skin itself by doing this.