Guild Wars 2

Hi everyone! I’m working on a theory of magic and wondered if anyone has encountered evidence suggesting that spell-casting is linked to genetics?

Gorr gets readings from the edge of the swamp whilst the PC fights low-level minions and remarks that said levels aren’t strong enough to form a conclusion. This suggests that Gorr can pick up readings anywhere, regardless of the presence of minions, which is why I think that all beings can consume magic – it’s just that the consumption rate of higher-level dragon minions is greater than most other creatures.

As far as I’m aware, no one has ever demonstrated that spellcasters – whether dragon minions or not – don’t consume magic. Professor Gorr’s tests, after all, required him to approach Risen Abominations before he could obtain viable readings, suggesting that the magical signature of normal risen was little or no different to that of everyday spellcasters.

Does anyone know what his profession is? I’m curious as to what it might be.

The primary reason why zerging is as bad as it is in GW2 is that the combat system doesn’t include character collision. Hence, multiple toons can “stack” on each other.

slingblade.1437:

How about they first focus on fixing things like not allowing players to jump into keeps? Oh, wait… ;-)

Ease up on the sarcasm. What I’m proposing is a level playing field for all players, complete with countermeasures, not exploits.

I’m curious though: Why does the thought of players using tools to simply jump over walls or gates cause you so much angst?

Korgov.7645:

Stephen.6312:

Offair.2563:

How about a way to salvage enemies siege into mats to make new ones.

It would probably be better to give the player who demolishes a piece of siege the chance to recover supply, just as they do when you kill a dolyak.

That would make defending keeps harder: “go destroy some siege to resupply”. And that opens up another exploit: trolls building useless siege for the attackers to destroy.

Lol. I wonder how many trolls would bother.

gennyt.3428:

Lionwait.4815:

I think this would be a wonderful idea. I know most of you people think ah no.. But the speed of the siege would be so slow those evil scenarios you are imagining wont happen. But what would happen is better siege on siege warfare in defending and offending. Giving more strategic options to WVW.

This is the kinda stuff WVW needs. We need more strategic options in WVW. People like you guys that shoot down ideas are those that don’t understand that its you who limit updates by happening in WVW. Because Anet gets so much flack from us. Yes that flack has been justly earned. And we all know that the Anet WVW team is lacking in strategy thinkers and tend to push responsibility on to the public with polls. But the answer isn’t with the many. Because statistically there are more halfwits then fullwitted people.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but Anet has NOT been cultivating players who want strategic and skilled play.

---

And no, no more buffs to seige. There’s enough low hanging, feel good fruit in the game already.

What is “strategic” and “skilled” play, in your opinion? PvP? I don’t think broadening the range of strategic and tactical options available to Commanders will improve the personal skill-levels of WvW players. But WvW isn’t just about control points – it’s about breaking into structures that contain them, which is where siege comes in.

Making siege mobile wouldn’t feed trolls; making siege mobile wouldn’t increase the deployment of siege engines in open-field zerg vs zerg combat. Why? Because any player worth their salt knows the limitations of siege.

I’m suggesting making siege transportable to reduce the number of supply-runs involved in laying siege to fortifications, and to ease player-dependence on camps. Siege would remain slow-moving, vulnerable, and just as unwieldly in openfield pvp.

zhonnika.1784:

What tier do you even play in, because you have, by far, the worst ideas I’ve ever seen and that’s considering the fact that anet gave us golem week.

Hopefully not your tier

Dawdler.8521:

Yes it would be lovely to see 70 man zergs roll around with 10 sup ACs wherever they go.

Zergs can do that anyway. How many do you see relying on siege to win battles and when they do how effective is it at upping-the-odds?

Osu.6307:

Anet, can you let give players the option to run anonymous in wvw to avoid this annoying tactic that is destroying the game mode. Driver sniping has gotten completely out of hand. Wvw is no longer zerg v zerg. It’s become zerg v driver. As soon a driver gets in range of the enemy, he gets corrupted, CC’ed, pulled, etc. by every one in range. So, what could have been a fun battle, turns into a commander getting killed and his zerg scatters and waits for him to run back. Basically no fun, and no bags, for anyone.

Wouldn’t it make much more sense for wvw players to run anonymous? By anonymous, I mean when you target an enemy player, instead of a detailed headshot and rank, you see no facial detail and a rankless label like “Maguuma Invader.” At least give us the option to toggle on or off what information we want displayed to the enemy.

Pin sniping is a legitimate tactic and it seems, from your suggestion, a very effective one. Commanders have squads to help them manage pin sniping and any guild or PUG zerg worth it’s salt will be able to press the assault in the absence of a Tag.

Get your chops down.

Have you ever noticed that most of the siege engines you construct have wheels? Yet only two of those engines – ironically, the ones without wheels – move around: alpha and omega golems. It’s a crying shame for which there aren’t enough tissues in the Orient to contain. It makes absolutely no sense to give golems mobility and nothing else. I say that everything you build should be movable.

What do you think?

Offair.2563:

How about a way to salvage enemies siege into mats to make new ones.

It would probably be better to give the player who demolishes a piece of siege the chance to recover supply, just as they do when you kill a dolyak.

Nikkinella.8254:

Why do pve players always come in here and make dumb suggestions on how to ruin wvw even more so they can play wvw as if it’s a pve map? Seriously, you have the silverwastes if you want towers where you don’t have to fight other people and can just jump over walls. How about we add dueling to pve maps? Keep your pve out of my wvw, and i’ll keep my wvw out of your pve. Deal?

The best part is where he starts with “As many wvw players know” Then proceeds to talk about a bunch of pve crap. Does this guy work for Anet? Must explain why he thinks wvw players are pve players. Or that we would welcome any of this BS into wvw.

I’ve spent a lot of time in WvW and have fond memories of most of the players that I met in there. I cant say that I’d have fond memories of you should our IPs converge, of course, what with me the PvE scrub and all

Having said that: Ways of suppressing the use of jumping walls and gates could be introduced to the gamemode via structural upgrades. Furthermore, the ability to slow the capture of a control point in a building should have been implemented a long time ago in the form of extensions to “Righteous Indignation” timers. Even something as simple as that would ensure that using scaling weapons isn’t always as profitable as conventional siege.

Orangensaft.7139:

xDD

Dude if you let just 1 player use that rifle he can use mesmer and port the whole zerg into any objective

you see the problem here?

I think that the meta will adjust.

Nightingale.8364:

OK so at the moment we have a winner for the most idiotic thread on the gw2forum 2017, you win a flame ram.

Lol.

Sinmir.6504:

If it was that you needed to use supply to break your own siege weapon. For attacking the supply drain wouldn’t be quite as appealing for trolls. They wouldn’t have access to a stack of supplies, would need to take from the nearest camp. Defending would be the opposite. They could destroy siege used to defend the structure while draining supply at the same time.
If you build a siege weapon it decays and expires in 1 hour, interacting with it changes the timer. Maybe converting a weapon could give it a very quick decay. Maybe, you capture a siege weapon, convert it using either supplies or whatever it would cost. The weapon becomes free for anyone to use, say for example you are the red server, you steal a blue catapult. The blues can still use it, the greens can also use it if they come across it but it has a quick decay then it will be gone. Couldd make it something like 5 mins, maybe also have it that instead of resetting the timer interacting with it only pauses the decay.

Accelerating decay times would be an interesting way to try and promote the concept of cost to siege capture.

slingblade.1437:

Adding a supply cost to destroy friendly siege means in addition to trolls/spies destroying siege, they can also drain supply at the same time, so that might make it even more appealing to them.

As far as adding a coin cost to destroy siege, say you’re on server A and are approaching Hill’s “cata spot.” Hill’s is owned by server B. You find players from server C have already built 3 catas there, but you outnumber them and so they run. So now you capture their 3 catas and use them to take Hills. Now there are 3 catas you need to destroy. Who pays to destroy them? Remember, it has to be expensive enough to discourage trolls, some of which may have hundreds or thousands of gold at their disposal.

I think each problem raised by this proposal will require an increasingly complex solution that will likely introduce other untended consequences. Noting wrong with bringing the idea up for discussion though.

Trolls have always been able to deplete supply by building siege so using supply to destroy siege won’t change whether trolls can drain supply from structures. In fact, the structure upgrade process was unhinged from supply levels and relies solely on dolyak deliveries now in an effort to reduce the impact trolls can have on supply.

I guess what I’m saying is: trolls will be trolls and whether this idea gains traction or not they can use siege to drain a structure’s supply.

As to a monetary cost: It doesn’t have to be standard game currency. A WvW currency either currently in circulation or yet to be created could be tied in to reward tracks. It would serve as the currency you use to pay for siege to be demolished. Furthermore, siege expiration timers would remain in place so you could just as easily give the ability to demolish siege to a Commander or those within his squad that he promotes to specific ranks. A system that doesn’t feed the trolls would be VERY EASY to implement.

slingblade.1437:

Korgov.7645:

Friendly fire causes too much grieving. Just imagine the new levels of trolling.

Also defending your siege becomes impossible with all profs having only AoE skills. An enemy warrior just needs to stand on your catapults and your own squad will destroy them.

These would both be huge problems.

Edit: The “capture” idea is interesting, but trolling, and alt-account destruction of siege would be epic, I think.

I disagree that the process of capturing siege would be too easy to make the idea viable. First, you would need to clear the circle of friendly forces and hold that circle for a period of time, perhaps 20-30 seconds. Think of PvP control points and how difficult capturing them can be if someone from the opposition either stays inside or moves through the point as you try to wrestle control of it.

Second, I propose that a further step is required, in which those able to capture siege through levelling WvW skills must approach the siege over which they now have control and select the F function, at which point they would channel the capture skill for, say, 2-3 seconds uninterrupted. During this period the force attempting to capture siege can still damage it. Hence, winning the control point around unattended/unmanned siege merely offers enemies qualified in siege capture the F function associated with it.

The system I propose would mean that, as long as someone is manning a siege weapon it cannot be either 1) captured or 2) damaged by friendly fire. Only siege “captured” by enemies would be damaged by players and those same players would have the opportunity to recapture it if they wished. Friendly-fire would not be a problem.

So, to clarify: If your side builds a siege engine and it is never captured, friendly players will not be able to damage it. If the engine is captured, players will be able to choose whether to recapture it or simply destroy it. This is a better option than previously as it means that siege often left for dead by advancing enemy forces may be recovered from them during a counter-push. Hence, no real problem with friendly fire.

THERE MAY BE A PROBLEM WITH ADDING THE ABILITY TO DEMOLISH SIEGE TO THE GAME MODE. HOWEVER, SIEGE ALREADY NATURALLY EXPIRES WHEN LEFT UNATTENDED. RAMS EXPIRE AFTER 15M. MOST OTHER SIEGE EXPIRES AFTER 60M. TO HELP REDUCE TROLLS DELIBERATELY DESTROYING SIEGE PRIOR TO ITS NATURAL EXPIRATION I PROPOSE ADDING A COIN OR SUPPLY COST TO THE DECISION TO DESTROY IT PREMATURELY.

The main reason is to encourage the adoption of a wider range of both defensive and offensive tactics by Commanders. Hey, we can stick to the same-old same-old approach, no problem.

As many WvW players know, PvE provides players with the ability to equip a number of movement-enhancing tools. I propose that at least one of those tools should be unilaterally introduced to WvW: The jumping rifle used to assist in some vista map completion.

This rifle would allow squads to assault structures without having to rely on siege, by allowing them to jump on or over both walls and gates. This would be the Tyrian equivalent of using scaling ladders to climb heights. Your thoughts?

A system allowing players to use all siege should have been implemented a long time ago. To clarify, when I suggest all siege I mean everything from cannons to arrow carts. One way to ensure that those who build siege aren’t offering it up on a platter to others who simply use it is to introduce “capture” times to siege that function in a similar way to control point circles. Basically, the ability to capture siege is linked to a WvW skill. Once you reach a certain level in that skill you can interact with enemy siege and capture it if you can hold it undisturbed for, say, 30 seconds. To help improve balance, you could introduce a supply cost for capturing too. As part of this system, the ability to destroy siege that you control would need to be added to the options available to siege operators.

The ability to sabotage and capture siege of all kinds would enrich and deepen the WvW combat experience, providing Commanders and squads with new strategies and tactics, revitalising a strategically stale game mode.

I think so. Nothing has been confirmed yet.

In my opinion, mesmer is the strongest profession.

Hi Raven!
Two videos worth watching on the subject are linked below:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zJoHQ2KCzw0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2iee8MRRROA
Enjoy ????

Conclusion
I believe that the reason why “blue magic” is underrepresented in continental Tyria is because this color of magic, when combined with the magics of the other colors, causes explosions. For this reason, five of the Elder Dragons are using their territories as “buffer zones”, preventing “blue magic” from penetrating into the central latitudes of the mainland and causing wide-scale destruction.

Examining The Territory Of The Elder Dragons: Shutting The Deep Sea Dragon Out
When we examine the territories of the Elder Dragons, we note that five of the six dragons have encircled the continent of Tyria, denying the Deep Sea Dragon access to the mainland. Why?

• Zaithan dominated the Sea of Sorrows, using his undead fleet to block the Strait of Malchor; he also poisoned the waterways of the Orrian peninsula. Why? Interestingly, following Zaithan’s defeat, Southsun Cove emerged form the waters of the Sea of Sorrows, forming a kind of blockade to the Unending Ocean.

• Kralkatorrik flew south to the Crystal Desert, dispatched Glint, and (presumably) occupies the northern desert wastes to this day. Why? It is worth noting that in recent years Palawa Joko has been redirecting the course of the Ebon river – terraforming the Crystal Desert – perhaps even creating inland lakes in the region. This reinvigorated area may be the source of the reports of the Deep Sea Dragon’s activities.

• Mordremoth has awoken in a region of Tyria famous for it’s aridity. Why is the Elder Dragon who dominates “light green magic”, plant and mind, who should be surrounded by a fertile playground, sleeping in a semi-desert?

Is it possible that in each and every case, these Elder Dragons are attempting to prevent the Deep Sea Dragon from gaining access to continental Tyria?

Toward An Explanation Of Why The Addition Of “Blue Magic” May Have Caused The Thaumanova Reactor To Explode
Let us imagine that the magic that each dragon leaks whilst in brumation gradually coalesces with that of other dragons; this coalescence is facilitated by the ley line network. Jormag’s magic (“white magic”) flows south from the north; Kralkatorrik’s magic (“violet magic”) flows west from the east; Zaithan’s magic (“dark green magic”) flows north from the south; Mordremoth’s magic (“light green magic”) flows east from the west; and Primordus’s magic (“red magic”) flows throughout. The mixing of the magics of these five dragons is most evident along the major ley line running through Lion’s Arch, and is evidenced by the temperate climate of the geography of that latitude.

Importantly, these five different magics combine harmlessly. However, if the Deep Sea Dragon’s magic were to reach the central latitudes of the Tyrian continent; were it to mingle with the magics of the five other dragons, it could cause a massive continent-wide explosion that will doom the life of all lesser beings dwelling within the affected region.

The Nature Of Magic
I would like to propose that “blue magic” is underrepresented due to the composition of magic. The Thaumanova Reactor, located in Metrica Province, is the site of an explosion associated with some kind of magical experiment that was conducted atop an intersection of ley lines – strong currents of magic that crisscross the continent. If these ley lines distribute the magics of the various colors (“red magic”, “dark green magic”, “white magic”, “violet magic”, “light green magic”), it is entirely possible that the reactor exploded because another magic was introduced to it – “blue magic”. Let me explain why this might be the case.

Why Is “Blue Magic” Underrepresented In Continental Tyria?
Perhaps the reason why “blue magic” is underrepresented in continental Tyria is because said magic is associated with the sea, and there are few-if-any inland seas in the continent. This doesn’t seem right, however. The Deep Sea Dragon, dominating the sphere of “blue magic”, is said to be able to influence freshwater lakes and rivers from the depths of his lair. Thus, the Deep Sea Dragon holds sway over not only saltwater, but all water.

The Blue Orb Is Underrepresented In Continental Tyria
There are various forms of evidence available to us suggesting that the magic of the blue orb (henceforth referred to as “blue magic”) is underrepresented in continental Tyria; two forms are noteworthy.

The first is found in the Ruined City of Arah. Therein, we locate a bloodstone shard (henceforth referred to as the “Arah Shard”) unlike others in that it contains five different colors of magic. (The Arah Shard, then, is like the bloodstone once was before being sundered.) From the shard we learn that the seers originally created the bloodstone during the last rise of the Elder Dragons, sealing it with uncorrupted magic. But if they used uncorrupted magic, they did not draw on “blue magic”.

The second form of evidence suggesting that “blue magic” is underrepresented in continental Tyria comes in the form of human mythology. Humans believe that at some point in the past their gods fell out with each other. The god Abaddon, representing “blue magic”, warred with his fellows, was defeated, cast down, and forgotten for nigh-on a thousand years.

Introduction
In the Living Story Season 2 episode, “Entanglement”, we were introduced to Omadd’s machine, within which we experienced a cosmic vision of six colored orbs orbiting a single white orb. The most popular interpretation of the vision is that the six orbs represent spheres of magic – each dominated by an Elder Dragon – and the central orb, Tyria. One of these spheres, the blue orb, and it’s associated Elder Dragon – the Deep Sea Dragon – is the subject of this post.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Prophecies manual, specifically the timeline, places Odran alive 200 years before GW1.

At this point, the Crystal Desert was long a desert. No islands or volcanic activity either. And the Tomb of the Primeval Kings had existed for over 600 years by Odran’s time.

The Valley of Gwaun, whatever it is, did not exist in gw1. We can go there as it is part of Talus Chute’s southwest corner, and that was a cliff full of trolls. It is one of the subliminal design retcons between the games, and there is no lore on this Valley.

I’d like to note that the volcano comparison fails at Tomb of Drascir too, which as I said had a portal by Odran. The Tomb of Drascir was in Ascalon.

The chances of there having been more than two portals by Odran into the Mists in the same continent is unlikely.

There is also no record or indication that Mount Maelstrom was a volcano in gw1 or before. All indication actually states that it is destroyer-made.

Hi Konig,
Thank you for clarifying that. I had neglected to check the timeline laid out in the manual.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Mount Maelstrom wasn’t volcanic in Odran’s time, though- it didn’t become active until sometime between the games. Before that, it appeared to just be a larger-than-average mountain, otherwise indistinguishable from the rest of the Shiverpeaks- and located fairly close to one of the largest dwarvern cities to boot.

Hi Aaron,
Can you confirm the approximate date during which Lord Odran was active? Is it openly stated in any of the manuscripts? Or is it something that members of the lore community have reached a consensus on?

On a side note: It is entirely possible that Mt Maelstrom was dormant for a time.

Hi Infamous Darkness,
That was a good observation. I have been investigating this possibility and, in my opinion (for what it is worth), there is a high likelihood that Lord Odran opened a portal at this location.

As Konig pointed out, there are two confirmed locations at which Lord Odran opened portals into the Mists: 1) the Tomb of the Primeval Kings and 2) the Battle Isles.

We are led to believe by the Guild Wars Manuscripts that Lord Odran concealed his portals with “wards and enchantments” in areas that were “difficult to get to”. These elements were dangerous enough to stir the “fear of death” in many would-be adventurers, sorting the meek from the mighty.

With this in mind, if we are to search for the locations of other portals opened by Odran, we should look for sites similar to those that we already know of. These are the peculiar details of each known site that seem the most relevant:

Peculiar Details Of The Battle Isles And The Tomb of the Primeval Kings

• Remote locations, inhospitable to life.
• The Isles may be a caldera, a dormant volcano.
• The Tomb of the Primeval Kings may have been located on an island once, in the days before the Crystal Desert was transformed from a sea into a desert. (It is also possible that such an island was volcanic in origin.)

Unfortunately, we don’t have more than that, although there is an interesting detail about Lord Odran’s demise that is worth noting: It is said that Lord Odran was “torn to pieces” by spirits from the Hall of Heroes.

In conclusion, there are at least two other possible locations at which Lord Odran opened portals:
1) The Ring Of Fire Island Chain and 2) Mount Maelstrom. Both of these locations are volcanic and as such inhospitable to life. The Ring of Fire Island chain is, well, just that – an island chain, hard to get to. The Valley Of Gwuan appears to be the remains of a volcanic vent and, just as interestingly, is populated by spirits enraged by the presence of any mortal flesh around them, reminiscent of the spirits by whom Lord Odran was destroyed.

Chaos And Order
Before I conclude this post, let me point out that Kralkatorrik’s mind is chaos, whereas Snaff’s mind is order. The two opposites combined would achieve balance. Snaff clearly had the power to restore balance, as he was capable of causing Kralkatorrik to drop from the sky, furiously scratching the itch within his spine from the old wound that he had suffered – that is to say, Snaff was strong enough, at least for a time, to bring order to chaos. However, Snaff’s pride ensured his demise. The moment he turned from reconciliation to competition, he incurred the hatred of Kralkatorrik, for it was after Snaff thought of his rivalry with Klab that it is said that Kralkatorrik flew into a rage. Prior to that, Kralkatorrik is said to merely be intensely interested in Snaff’s activity.

Speculation On The Lesson Of Snaff’s Failure
Turai Ossa once said that he had waited ‘“for many centuries [in the Crystal Desert], waiting for the Prophecy to come to pass. The Chosen ones will come and help me gain access to the Mists and pass into the Hall of Heroes. It has all been foreseen."’ As many players of the Living Story know, Turai Ossa recently reappeared. What if he did so because the prophecy is yet to be fulfilled? What if Destiny’s Edge are “chosen ones” who will do what others could not?

Snaff was eventually replaced by someone else: the PC. Like Snaff, the PC has touched the mind of a dragon (you may recall the vision of the Eternal Alchemy) and is said to be strong-willed (sylvari PCs, for example, state that they are too strong to fall to Mordremoth when conversing with the Pale Tree). I think that the PC is meant to replace Snaff because the latter was found unworthy. And this brings us to the true motive for Glint sending Logan away:

She was sacrificing Snaff in order to save the rest of Destiny’s Edge. You see, as long as Snaff fought, a united Destiny’s Edge – chosen ones – would fight alongside him and die alongside him. If they did, the premonitions of Glint would never come to pass. Thus, when Glint tells Eir that Destiny’s Edge must stand together to prevail, she is encouraging Eir to rally the remnants of her guild following the loss of Snaff, so that the guild can actually achieve what they are meant to achieve.

And I don’t think that they are meant to kill dragons.

“I see you are indeed competent. Guards, let them pass. We wish to view them up close…Still so far away. Are you that afraid? Come closer, we wish to see you more clearly.”

“Listen. Vast energies flow through and around Tyria, and I saw a dragon. It…um…It was part of the workings of the world. It came at me.”

The Doppelganger: War Within Oneself

“Your Ascension is close at hand. But do not let your success go to your head. I was once mortal like you. I thought I had everything well in hand. That was hundreds of years ago, but I have yet to reach the Hall of Heroes.”

“It is a powerful artifact that can focus the gaze of the gods upon you. Without it, you will be unable to Ascend. Once you have completed the three Tests of Ascension, you will head to Augury Rock. There, the gaze of the gods will be focused by the Vision Crystal upon you. If you pass their scrutiny, you will be allowed to enter the final test and prove yourself worthy of Ascension once and for all.”

Snaff would first have to fight against himself. “But”, you say, “Snaff never fought against himself”. Are you sure? A careful examination of King’s text suggests that when Snaff was peering into his reflection in Kralkatorrik’s eye, he was actually fighting against himself. Snaff’s first attempt to master himself failed; it was only when Zojja interrupted her master that Snaff was spared corruption. Snaff’s next attempt to master himself was successful. Metaphorically speaking, he bested his doppelganger. What happens next is fascinating. Snaff is transported through Kralkatorrik’s eye into another plane, similar to an ascendant’s ability to travel into the Mists. Did Snaff actually travel into the Mists? It is unclear. Some players have theorized that the dragons may in fact be realms, or planes of existence, within the Mists, and this portion of the story of Snaff’s battle with Kralkatorrik does lend some credence to the theory.

Just as importantly, Snaff realizes something: that he knows how to calm the storm that is Kralkatorrik’s mind. What is Snaff metaphorically doing at this point? He is assembling a broken crystal. Which crystal? The vision crystal, perhaps, or maybe something even more profound. However, we cannot ignore the subtle reference to the vision crystal that is made here. Furthermore, it is clear at this point that Snaff has unlocked hidden powers. The nature of the text suggests that Snaff always knew what he realized, he just lacked the spark of purity to help him see it clearly.

The fact that Snaff reaches his conclusion about how to calm the storm of Kralkatorrik’s mind from within the context of said mind is strongly indicative of the fact that a being cannot achieve perfection until it enters the mind of a dragon. The question, however, is not whether this is the point at which perfection can be achieved, but what it will mean for both being and dragon.

But then something goes wrong. Snaff’s pride became his downfall. The nature of his thoughts reveals the rise of his old thorn-in-the-flesh. When drawing Kralkatorrik’s attention, Snaff thinks of three things. These are:

1) Mathematics.
2) The smile on Zojja’s face when she invented a new ankle joint for her golem.
3) The look of shock and betrayal on Klab’s (Snaff’s rival) face when he became the director of pest control.

Like Abaddon, Snaff fell. Why? Think about the nature of Snaff’s thoughts. The first two are altruistic. The last, however, is selfish and proud. The final thought isn’t about reconciliation, but competition. You see, Snaff was too proud to receive the award, “Director of Pest Control”, so he manipulated the prize-giving ceremony at which he might have received it in order to avoid the ignominy of his peers.

Snaff, Snaff, Snaff. What have you done? The asuran genius’s strategy was flawed in that he merely wanted to control the dragon, rather than command it’s respect. Had Snaff done both, he would have achieved something more that day.

Glint Had A Motive To Do What She Did
What is ascension all about? What happens when an individual enters into a state of communion with the “Old Gods”? I’m not sure that any player could actually answer that. Nevertheless, ascension may play a pivotal role in our understanding of dragon.

If you could pick a candidate for ascension from amongst the members of Destiny’s Edge on that fateful day when they stood before Glint, who would you have chosen? Snaff, right? After all, Snaff stared down Jormag. Surely that counts for something, and no other member of Destiny’s Edge would’ve even dared to compare their deeds to such a feat. So, Snaff it would be then.

Now Snaff wasn’t perfect, but he was becoming increasingly pure throughout his trials. Snaff’s greatest weakness was his pride; his greatest strength, his self-control. Through Glint’s efforts, Snaff was able to enter Kralkatorrik’s mind. But first, he would have to pass a test.

Glint Knew Of Logan’s Pact With Jennah, And Of Snaff’s Handheld Portal Generator
Both Logan Thackeray and Ogden Stonehealer recently re-emerged into the spotlight of the Living Story, spouting on about the uniqueness of Glint. Apparently, Glint’s ability to read minds, coupled with her mastery of the languages of the lesser races, provided her with the opportunity to develop symbiotic relationships with said races that would make other dragons – particularly Elder Dragons – blush. I’m not sure what to make of either Logan or Ogden. Thus far, I wouldn’t have pinned either as the foremost expert on dragons. Logan’s experience with dragons extends only to the battle against Zaithan. Ogden, of course, may have conversed with Glint, but aside from this his knowledge of dragons is largely theoretical. Ogden is a true scholar – he doesn’t fight dragons, he leaves that to grunts like Logan Thackeray.

Which is why neither Logan nor Ogden are technically correct about the uniqueness of Glint. Sure, she could read minds, but there is evidence that Zaithan could too. In the Personal Story instance “The Source of Orr”, the Sovereign Eye of Zaithan discerns the intention of the PC upon beholding him or her, then appeals to the PC during the ensuing fight, stating, ‘“I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan…Come to Zhaitan, and find everything you have lost”’. Nor is the PC the only person to experience this phenomenon. Several instances earlier, in “A Light In The Darkness”, the sylvari Tegwen remarks on eyes she saw in the darkness, “Great glowing eyes that cut into [her] soul”. The link between the eyes of a dragon and it’s ability to read minds seems fairly certain. Glint, for example, also discerns details about individuals when she looks at them. When Destiny’s Edge converses with the she-dragon, Glint stares into Eir’s eyes, before declaring, “’I know who you are, Eir Stegalkin…I know the fight that you have fought and the damage that you have done to dragonkind…’”

Glint is also rumored to have possessed prophetic abilities. Several players have questioned the extent of these abilities, and rightly so. For whilst Glint’s ability to read minds made it easier for her to identify her targets, the same ability in no way made it easier for her to determine which of them would be more successful in their attempts to injure either her or Kralkatorrik. In fact, Glint’s ability to foresee the future seems to be linked to a meditative state (into which she enters on several occasions whilst conversing with Destiny’s Edge) in which she visualizes a sequence of events and weighs the probability of outcomes. Hence, her judgment is far from perfect.

Throughout her conversation with them, Glint seems to betray a knowledge of at least three things about Destiny’s Edge that she could only have read from their minds.

1) She betrays a knowledge of Eir’s past;
2) She betrays a knowledge of Faolain and that the latter incited the guild to turn on Glint (‘“I can’t [deceive you], but a wretch from the Nightmare Court can?”’);
3) She betrays a knowledge of Snaff’s ability to command sand into golems
(‘”Do you know what I can do with these?” Glint seemed almost to smile. “What?”’).

If Glint knew these things about Destiny’s Edge, it is almost certain that she knew two other important things too: that Jennah had bound Logan to her and that Snaff had the means to unite Logan and Jennah.

Glint Sends Logan Away
This interpretation of the events of the fateful day on which Destiny’s Edge battled Kralkatorrik hinges on the idea that it was Glint, not Jennah, who sent Logan away in order to derail the guild’s attempt to kill the Elder Dragon of Crystal. To demonstrate that this is a viable interpretation, we need to prove the following:

1. Glint did not think that Destiny’s Edge could kill Kralkatorrik.
2. Glint knew of Logan’s pact with Jennah, and of Snaff’s handheld portal generator.
3. Glint had a motive to do what she did.

Glint Did Not Think That Destiny’s Edge Could Kill Kralkatorrik
Destiny’s Edge never had a show-in-hell of defeating Glint. Fighting the guild was mere child’s-play for the ancient she-dragon. They came at her with explosive arrows, a spinning hammer, flaming sword, white stilettos, and golems. It is said that she merely batted the explosive arrows aside with a sweep of her tail. We don’t learn what the other weapons might have done. The confrontation was over as quickly as it started and Destiny’s Edge were soon on the back foot, questioning themselves within the dragon’s lair moreso than they ever had approaching it.

The guild had never fought a dragon, let alone an Elder Dragon. What’s more, if their weapons were weak against Glint, they were pitiful against Kralkatorrik. The only reason Destiny’s Edge even had a chance against Kralkatorrik is because i) Glint fought alongside them and ii) Glint provided them with a weapon that could harm the Elder Dragon.

The other problem with the guild’s plan is that it was hastily formed at the last minute. They intended to kill Glint, only to exceed their reach by grasping for Kralkatorrik.

Now think of Glint’s fight with Kralkatorrik. Glint originally proposed that she would engage Kralkatorrik, forcing the latter groundward, exposing his breast so that Rytlock Brimstone could launch a spear at Kralkatorrik’s heart. The problem with this plan is that it was doomed to fail and Glint knew it. When Glint finally did provoke Kralkatorrik, it was a matter of merely a few minutes, perhaps even moments before she was crushed in his jaws. If Glint knew that her plan would fail and that Rytlock would never launch the spear, why did she propose it? Did Glint even intend for Destiny’s Edge to fight Kralkatorrik?

Glint knew that she would die fighting her former master. A solitary creature, she wanted to die alone. If Glint really did want to kill Kralkatorrik, to emerge victorious from her fight against him, she could have fielded a sizeable army of forgotten, dwarves, or even humans to help her. She certainly didn’t need Destiny’s Edge and the recent revelation in the Living Story Season 2 that she entrusted her egg to someone other than a member of the guild demonstrates that they didn’t factor highly in her departure plans.

No, Glint did not think that Destiny’s Edge could kill Kralkatorrik…

“I know the fight that is ahead of you, and your vanishing hope of success.”

“You cannot match the will of an Elder Dragon.”

What Might Have Happened

Let’s take a moment to consider what might have happened if the group had correctly interpreted Glint’s test. Snaff would not have died. But the guild still had and has lessons to learn.

Destiny’s Edge Approach Glint’s Lair
The Writer states that at least one group of those who journeyed into the Crystal Desert, led by Turai Ossa, failed to ascend because they were torn apart by the internal strife borne of mistrust.

When Destiny’s Edge approached Glint’s Lair, they were almost torn apart too. Glint allowed each member of Destiny’s Edge to hear their associates’ thoughts, all of which were initially bigoted, racist, and sexist. Only Caithe’s simplicity saved the guild when she surmised that Destiny’s Edge were being tested by Glint. Realizing this, the group rallied and were able to see through an illusion concealing the she-dragon’s lair.

It would seem from the guild’s experience that Turai Ossa’s people may have succumbed to Glint’s test.

The question is what Glint’s test was intended to do. Was it meant to keep her safe? Glint didn’t parade herself before humanity; she hid in a single grain of sand in the middle of a desert – the point being that her hiding-place was deserted. Its almost as though Glint didn’t want to be found. Even her custodians had the kind of name that one tends to forget.

Did Destiny’s Edge correctly interpret the nature of Glint’s test? The thing about Destiny’s Edge is that they weren’t searching for Glint to exchange pleasantries; no, they were hunting her. What do you think she was trying to do then? Is it any wonder that the she-dragon entrusted the last of her eggs to someone other than a member of Destiny’s Edge? She was trying to splinter the guild, to cause the group to come unstuck at a crucial moment. She was protecting herself.

Thus, Destiny’s Edge did not pass the first test. Sure, they managed to rally and pierce Glint’s illusion, but their intention remained the same: they would kill Glint. It would be a mistake that would cost them dearly.

This post presents an interpretation of some of the events described in chapters 27-33 of Robert J. King’s novel, “Edge of Destiny”.

Introduction
The written account of Snaff’s clash with Kralkatorrik reads like a story of the former’s trial of ascension. According to the Guild Wars 1 wiki,

“Ascension is described as a state of communion with the Old Gods. Among other benefits, those who succeed in attaining it are able to travel through the Mists, and with the right help can unlock hidden reserves of power. As well as being masters of their primary chosen heroic profession, Ascendants are able to grasp, to an extent, elements of all the other professions.”

The writer of the wiki (henceforth referred to as “The Writer” for the sake of brevity) goes on to note that,

“Many…have traveled to the Crystal Desert to Ascend, seeking the guidance of the gods or believing that the prophesied few were among them, and almost all have failed.”

Many have tried, many have failed, including Snaff. What went wrong?

draxynnic.3719:

The impression I had is that the gods tipped the bloodstones into the volcano in order to make them inaccessible, not because they expected it to destroy them. If they were looking to throw the Ring into Mt Doom, there wasn’t much point to splitting them beforehand – if they could be destroyed by magma, they’d be destroyed either way.

A fair point. I think that regardless of whether the gods wanted to destroy the bloodstone or not, they clearly did something with it that the seers probably didn’t intend. Thus, it was rendered obsolete.

draxynnic.3719:

The dragons consume lifeforce because while they act to regulate magic, they’re not doing so out of any sense of stewardship of the world.

I’m not sure whether their attitude toward the balance that they currently maintain matters. Civilizations develop in the context of the Elder Dragonic cycle – or at least, they have until now. Thus, the observation that they balance magic is perfectly valid.

Your suggestion that they can be replaced by practices such as necromancy is insightful, although I’m not sure at this point whether resorting to such brutal methods of generating magic makes us any better than the dragons. Given the scale of the system over which the dragons preside, coupled with the dark nature of necromancy, I cannot foresee anything other than more monsters rising to power to replace the dragons.

xXLuggXx.4018:

I think this are really cool specualtions and i like thinking about lore anyways

While reading through your answers 2 (or maybe 3) different possibilities came to my mind:

1) The “void” caused by the killing of Elder Dragons has to be filled (really liked the coparison to Kormir). So to avoid a never ending fight we have to find “good” avatars to take their part.
> the Pale Tree for Modri’s magic
> Glints’ Baby
> Ogden?!
I don’t know…but you get the idea… OR we fail by doing it (as seen with Teq. and just ONE ED’s magic will turn “good” (Glint’s baby?). So at this point we KNOW it is POSSIBLE and that is our effort and heritage for the future generations:

Hi xXLuggXx,
The proposal to substitute Elder Dragons with other, more benevolent beings has only really gained traction with Ogden Stonehealer’s suggestion that Glint might have replaced an Elder (presumably Kralkatorrik), so there is in-game support for the substitution theory. My concern, however, with those viewpoints that offer other candidates – other than dragons – is primarily that we haven’t clarified whether the Elder Dragons’ consumption of lifeforce is somehow fundamental to their role as keepers of the balance of magic. If it is, obviously “benevolent” replacements will not be sufficient.

Just my two cents of course…

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Stephen.6312:

What do you propose too much, or too little magic would do to Tyria, if not cause either an explosion or implosion?

Too little would likely results in deserts all around the world. Continuous wastelands. The world dying off, literally.

Too much likely results in things like the aftermath of Thaumanova – creatures randomly teleporting around, magical concentrations becoming toxic, the environment rapidly changing or merging to even where we see underwater bubbles up in the air. Though this is an over-concentration of chaos magic, I’d imagine that an over-concentration of any magic can hold similar but more thematic effects.

That is how I see it, though I perhaps take Ogden’s words literally.

I like your idea.

Stephen.6312:

I think that this returns us to an earlier point, in which Draxynnic suggested that alternative means of converting magic from one form to another exist and therefore, we can do without the existing dragonic cycle. The issue I have with such a perspective is simply that it doesn’t account for the fact that dragons feed on living beings (or lifeforce). In other words, the process of harvesting the lifeforce of creatures must have a part to play in the natural balancing of magic. Therefore, any attempt to substitute the existing system with another must take into account this aspect. Does anyone have any insights into why the Elder Dragons consume lifeforce? They would be appreciated

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Drax said that we can manage magic without Elder Dragons because it’s shown in lore that such has been done. Though without utilizing it to the utmost effectiveness.

Mainly, the Bloodstones.

Bloodstones are basically gargantuan power crystals, which the asura use on a regular basis. Power crystals are crystals that have magical energy stored within.

If the seers can do it on a large scale, and asura can do it on a small scale, then there’s a good chance the asura can figure out how to do it on a large scale.

Elder Dragons appear to balance magic by going from one extreme (full of magic) to the other extreme (lack of magic) and use their own bodies to regulate. Them going after the living beings of the world is likely unnecessary – being part of balancing extremes rather than balancing via middle ground – and what deems them “evil” in many eyes. The alternative to avoid that would be balancing in the middle ground.

I think that this is where we agree to disagree. I don’t see the bloodstone as a demonstration of our ability to fully regulate magic. As I see it, the bloodstone was a way to store a portion of what I will term “ambient magic” – that is, the magic which spellcasters rely on to cast their spells (such as mesmers, elementalists etc). It did not allow us to “recycle” magic. Furthermore, the bloodstone may have caused more harm than good. As an artificial form of “regulation”, it may have led to the war between the seers and the mursaat, and later within humanity, and between humanity and various other races. I think that the bloodstone demonstrates that in an environment in which there is a scarcity of magic, conflicts for the remaining magic will result.

I believe that the bloodstone was a colossal failure. The human gods’ decision to split the stone into pieces and cast it into a volcano suggests that they were actually trying to destroy it. But the bloodstone is an extremely hardy artifact. It had already survived (if accounts of the last dragonrise are accurate) ~7500 years of existence, then survived the volcano, and remains to this day. Now, it still has weaknesses (we have bloodstone dust, for example, demonstrating that it is subject to wear, and the human gods were capable of breaking it, although i’d argue that they weren’t able to shatter it into hundreds of thousands of pieces).

I guess the problem with our current thinking about magic is that we don’t see it as something that goes through various phases of renewal. We see magic like water in it’s liquid state, but magic may in fact have more states which we cannot change by merely storing and regulating it’s “liquid” form (ambient magic).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Mainly because we don’t use the Inquest’s methods- we broadly condemn them, in fact, and us adventurers are often seen doing our utmost to stomp them out. Whatever barbarism the Inquest endorses absolutely does not reflect on any of us beings outside the Inquest.

I think that this returns us to an earlier point, in which Draxynnic suggested that alternative means of converting magic from one form to another exist and therefore, we can do without the existing dragonic cycle. The issue I have with such a perspective is simply that it doesn’t account for the fact that dragons feed on living beings (or lifeforce). In other words, the process of harvesting the lifeforce of creatures must have a part to play in the natural balancing of magic. Therefore, any attempt to substitute the existing system with another must take into account this aspect. Does anyone have any insights into why the Elder Dragons consume lifeforce? They would be appreciated

draxynnic.3719:

The ‘explode when killed’ is a trait of gods, but the deaths of dragons seems to be less violent.

I respect your opinion. In light of the following:

Ogden Stonehealer: Too much magic, and the world spins out of control. Too little, and it crumbles into darkness.

What do you propose too much, or too little magic would do to Tyria, if not cause either an explosion or implosion?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t think we fight any golem powered by souls in-game, but it’s a much-mentioned topic of the Inquest and a focus of the asura Dynamics storyline.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, there are a couple- in Metrica, the boss golem south of the reactor is powered by the souls of kidnapped refugees, and the complex in the north-east that made it is said by the heart to be generally geared towards that kind of research.

Good spotting.

Aaron, in regards to your observation, I think that the asuran use of souls to power things – or the essence of something, like a dragon minion – demonstrates that our methods are just as barbarous as those of the dragons. How can we justify destroying the Elder Dragons, only to replace them with methods as brutal as their own?