Guild Wars 2

psydrome.1468:

Let us have infusion to all sorts of ‘rare’ armor (Rare, Exotic, Ascended)
I never want to see people excluding others to group up with them because one doesnt has infusion…. This is against the philosophy!
“lf people with infusion armor”

Or just don’t add infusion at all….

Or just get armor that can be infused?

Belligerent.4819:

holy fuark, they just killed all their pve in one patch, good job, now no one will want to do old dungeons because they don’t drop ascendant gear, arenanet in charge of not killing their franchise

But I thought people play this game for skins?

Hmmm, I am starting to sense a hint of contradicting going on now…..

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

This should have just been brought into the game like infusion was in the first game with being able to add the infusion to your currently existing exotics without raising the stat level. As it sets they are just going to ruin there game as the only game to thrive on the treadmill has been WoW. Every other game has crashed and burned when these changes have started.

Very bland and blanket based statements based upon what proof?

Just about every other game that has crashed and burned is still running, with minimal population and this, could just as well been planned in thier forcast for the games life span.

The question people like yourself needs to ask is, how many people are gaming companies willing to cater too before they pull the plug on the servers? This we will never know, but if a game is still floating and releasing content, clearly, they are not crashing and burning.

On top of this, no, that game you mention which we will not speak of is not the only game to thrive on a gear grind treadmill, many are still thriving on it and are still releasing content.

The failure is, people like yourself who only choose to compaire everything to that mmorpg. That is the only problem.

Going from a player base well over 1 million to maybe 200000 if there lucky thats crashing and crashing hard. Frankly those other games are not thriving. They are shell’s of them former self’s. Rift crashed and burned because they followed that trend. SWTOR crashed because they followed that trend. Those are two of the biggest games in the last 2-3 years and both flopped when they catered to this mind set. As for your claim of people like me you clearly dont know anything about me.

Again, you have no proof and that is entirely your own opinion.

One of those games is about to launch an expansion, so clearly, it hasn’t crashed and burned and again, I point out to you, you have no idea on what kind of population they can cater too before pulling the plug.

200’000 subs is quite good for today’s age and as long as they are making money, who cares?

My opinion on the game in question is quite different to yours, but I won’t go there.

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

Lost Shores dictates otherwise.

I think there is enough threads about this topic already, there does not need to be a negative demoralizing thread generated again.

Clearly it does as A-Net has abandoned there moral’s to please a very loud minority of the population. Maybe they will listen if we get just as loud.

Again, you have no proof, and even if A-net did once upon a time promise no gear grind treadmill type character based progression, the fact that they have changed thier minds tells me that the crowd they are attempting to appease to is a little bit more then the minority you claim it to be.

Buisnesses, let me correct that, multi-million dollar industries do not make knee jerk reactions based on minority out breaks without proven data to support it is a majority and has the potential to earn dollars.

SiNoS.2147:

This should have just been brought into the game like infusion was in the first game with being able to add the infusion to your currently existing exotics without raising the stat level. As it sets they are just going to ruin there game as the only game to thrive on the treadmill has been WoW. Every other game has crashed and burned when these changes have started.

Very bland and blanket based statements based upon what proof?

Just about every other game that has crashed and burned is still running, with minimal population and this, could just as well been planned in thier forcast for the games life span.

The question people like yourself needs to ask is, how many people are gaming companies willing to cater too before they pull the plug on the servers? This we will never know, but if a game is still floating and releasing content, clearly, they are not crashing and burning.

On top of this, no, that game you mention which we will not speak of is not the only game to thrive on a gear grind treadmill, many are still thriving on it and are still releasing content.

The failure is, people like yourself who only choose to compaire everything to that mmorpg. That is the only problem.

Lost Shores dictates otherwise.

I think there is enough threads about this topic already, there does not need to be a negative demoralizing thread generated again.

GADefence.5634:

“I really hate to break this too you, but the game will not last long if all the upgrading a players character can achieve is minor fluff via skins.

If this all Anet plan to have for character advancement, they truely are stuck 10 years in the past on thier GW1 platform, which today, is not what this genre of gamers want."

I normally try not to insult people. But Taem, you are balls on moronic if you really believe this.

Do you see FPS’ (other then a few cash store centric ones) adding more powerful guns every week? No – yet HOLY @#$% PEOPLE ARE STILL PLAYING COD4? That can’t be, that game’s old and has no new guns! Surely this is a lie.

Why do so many people play the free trial to WHO? There more then just it in the world that’s free, yet people enjoy it for gameplay. Why do people not pay a monthly fee for “gear progression” to get max renown rank? Because it’s only gear progression and you can get the same gameplay right at the begining.

Gear progression is quite literally the only thing people should be able to say “Maybe another game is for you” because it’s the only concept (ok, it and no dedicated healer) that GW2 should really never sway on, and they are.

Sorry, but I am not the one here compairing a FPS platform to a MMORPG platform.

All in all, I have no issues with what ever they want to do with this game anymore.

I will say this, Lost Shores is bringing out new gear upgrades that are not based on skins, but stats, they are also bringing out new set bonuses and a new upgrade system.

So all of you who are clinging onto the hope that there is never going to be a gear grind or character progression other then new fluff stuff like skins and looks are wasting your time.

Todays gaming genre want more then just to look cool, looking cool and participating in the same old content over and over again for months on end does not keep people playing or paying money in the cash shop. Content and character progression does. It is a proven buisness platform that certain companies have been monopolizing and taking advantage of now for the best part of a decade and after Anet spent out 150+ million dollars creating this title, do you really think they are going to just run with the hopes that people will stay and play based on skins?

Moronic? No.

Azaziel.3608:

So you’d do all that work to just see bigger numbers on your screen, but not to see a better looking weapon on your character….hmmm.

Correct, because that is called, character progression.

Looking cool is just fluff and if you think this game will survive on that model with todays gaming genre, I think you have seriously overestimated a 10+ year old platform.

So many people are now being effected by this and no word of it being reconised.

I have sent email after email and no reply. I have reported Forum Moderators only for it to fall on deaf ears.

It is quite clear at this point that the current company moderating these forums don’t speak english as thier primary langauge, fully understand the context behind the english langauge and compounding this issue further, simply are showing a lack of care, professionlism and consistency in regards to follow the EULA for forum use.

If you don’t agree with someone on these forums, just report them, because they will get an infraction, it is that simple. Want to shut down a person who is proving you wrong? Report them, get them infracted. Want to keep your thread clean and tidy with no one else view or opinion in it other then those who share the same view and opinion as you? Report them.

Frotee.2634:

…Uhm…so what exactly is you problem with implementing weapons which require a HUGE time investment to get, but only provide a very special skin vs. an advantage over players who are unable to invest that huge amount of time?

There really are other ways to keep people playing – and believe me, there are enough who will invest the time simply to feel like a very special snowflake in a specific skin.

And to everyone saying the game won’t last long on skins alone? Look at GW1. Max level was 20, everything beyond that was skins and titles. Worked just fine.
I believe people are forgetting another part of the philosophy behind making GW2 a game without monthly fees – enabeling players to play more than one MMO at one time. If you are bored with GW2 when you have reached your personal goals – fine, just go and play something else for a while; until the next update or holiday comes along (I have a feeling that those create quite a bit of revenue in cash shop items).

Time is irrelevant and not real anyway.

What does it matter that someone who is able to play longer then you do and can acheive things at an accerlerated rate vs. someone who takes a little bit longer but can still achieve the same outcome?

Nothing. The overall result is the same, you both achieved the same thing…..

LOL, what is with Forum Moderators giving people (including myself) infractions for agreeing with people??!?!?!?! I guess, in some country on some part of the planet, agreeing with someone is appartenly off topic and does not contribute to the topic at hand…….rofl.

Seriously…….this is getting too much. Might start taking a peak over the fence for the next title……

Gomes.5643:

And they dont need to keep them playing. The good thing abount having no monthly costs is that you can stop playing the game and come back when new content is avaible.

Besides, skill>time-philosophy is one of the major points in the ArenaNet history and i dont believe that they will break with it.

I will tell you how simple it really is.

Less people playing = less revenue from the cash shop = slower content releases = game bleeding players.

More people playing = more revenue from the cash shop = faster and more consistant content releases = game stays healthy and populated.

If you honestly think that Anet designed this games template so people can come and go at will taking a break for months on end, then I think you are wrong.

Cloud.7613:

GW2 is about getting skins, not getting items that make you more powerful then the next guy. It’s a fairer system. Besides, I have a legendary, what else am I going to spend my gold on? Nice sword design though.

In 3 months time, if Lost Shores does not have enough content to keep people interested, skins are not going to keep people playing, sorry.

Jrunyon.3012:

ReverantSpark.7309:

Ok, so you might have seen my previous post about legendary weapons being a poorly implemented idea… And now Ive just realised something that is gonna make me not bother with them at all…

Legendaries only do the same damage as exotics?… SERIOUSLY!?
Your gonna make us do all that work just for a skin!? Epic fail ANET, epic fail…
The only reason that I had for considering making one was because I thought “well, at least it will have higher damage and better stats…”
But nope, they are just animated skins… I dont even like the skins. Well, of the greatswords anyway.
I cant believe that the only benefit of all that hard work is aesthetic… And even then the aesthetics suck.

This truly is not the game for you. Did you even research the game at all and realize that thats one of their main selling points? That people with rare weapons dont get an advantage over others? Its not a fail, its a genius idea that is working out quite nicely in game. Go play Perfect World or something if you want to show how much money you can throw at the screen to get the Uber 1337 Sword of Faceroll.

And btw, theyre not interested in your drawings at all.

I really hate to break this too you, but the game will not last long if all the upgrading a players character can achieve is minor fluff via skins.

If this all Anet plan to have for character advancement, they truely are stuck 10 years in the past on thier GW1 platform, which today, is not what this genre of gamers want.

Onshidesigns.1069:

To many people in other games do nothing instanced raids all everyday.

If instance raids was in this game, many players would not be contributing to DE"s and Meta events.

You could always join a guild who is doing DE’s, Meta and Raid content.

Dispite what many try and say, guilds do you know, cater to peoples needs and wants.

castlemanic.3198:

I mean this sincerely, why don’t you try to find one of those stable communities? While guilds have little meaning that they did in other MMOs, im sure there are GW2 communities that you’d absolutely love to join.

You have hit the nail on every aspect of this post in regards to why, MMORPG’s are simply not real MMORPG’s anymore today. The communities I would love to join simply do not exsist, hence why I lead a guild of my own and have so for over a decade now. The casual nature of these games even hurts guild communities more then one would think, but we won’t go there just yet.

As we have discussed in other threads, console based RPG’s are starting to drive the MMMORPG market and there is very little left to be desired about how a MMORPG caters to a community of people.

You seem to be lacking the ability how ever to understand the concept of playing for years. While alot of people have no issues playing for years, companies have trouble retaining a strong and healthy player base for years due to the nature that even casual gamers themselves churn through content/games. People will stay and play a game that appeals to them and keeps them driven to churn out the content if there is constant content updates.

From here, issues arise. If it is fluffly based content released with no means on upgrading your character, most people start to quit. I personally do not believe that this game will retain a healthy player base if the constant progression is nothing more then skins.

I have level’d up four level 80’s now, working on a 5th (kind of). I play on a High/Full populated server. The majority of the population seems to have hit the level 80 range, with zones lower in level now being barren waste lands with almost no one in sight. Most casual based players have 1 maybe 2 level 80’s at this point and if you are a frequent forum bandit you will notice that increase in content needed posts are increasing.

Put simply, if Lost Shores does not house some meaningful and beneficial form of character advancement, then you will start to see a dip in population numbers over the next 3 months.

I cannot and will not speak on behalf of Anet in regards to what they have coming out or thier plans for the future, but after watching the gaming community over many games now over the past 15 – 20 years, I know this much, if a game starts to bleed players within the first 12 months, it is very hard to gain them back. But as you have pointed out and many others including myself, this is the casual nature of gaming today. People would rather churn out titles/games today with a quick fix of almost what seems to be instant gratification then spend a good few years playing a great game, with great people = great community.

Also one last thing, do not mistake old school gamers for not understanding the market today, we understand it all too well. What we believe players like yourself are missing, is a truely epic gaming experience. Epic online gaming experiences have been watered down by this cookie cutter sandbox style based MMORPG industry they keep on milking today, I can’t help you understand what I am talking about here, because it was something you had to experience. Zones that were so big they felt like they had no ending, dungeons so diverse and so thick with lore that you could literally get lost in, quests that you had to actually had to think your way through instead of following the yellow-brick-road, and the greatness goes on and on.

In my honest opinion, even if casual gamers today who have never experiened an old school feel in MMORPG gaming was to feel that today, you would be gob smacked. Alas, new generation gamers seem to be stuck in the mind set that old school gamers were hermit basement dwelling no-lifers living with thier parents. This to me is sad, because on the contary, old school gaming was not like that at all, until the industry started to shift into what we see gaming as today and allowed children to start playing them. We won’t go there though.

While I agree that people who bot come crying to the forums claiming they do not bot (pretty obvious) I will say that if I was a GM and was monitoring a bunch of bots farming an area that had known drop rates for tier 6 drops for Legendary itemization and seen real players mixed up in there just following the bots trying to tag every mob the bot army was tagging, then I would think that they were a bot also.

So its pretty obvious that, in this sceanrio, some innocent players will get hit accidently, I will leave that judgement call up to the masses.

If you die to a hit that takes 75% of your life in total damage, then no, you shouldn’t take a broken armor penalty.

MasterGeese.4756:

Rewards for raids don’t even have to be gear/skins. The XP/Karma/Money rewards that go with DE’s in the open world seem to cater to nearly everyone that does them.

IMO, if Arenanet is going to add raids, they need to make sure that people will do them for the right reasons: To have fun by attempting legitimately challenging content as a team, not for an obligatory gear treadmill.

So what should raids have that would accomplish that task?
-Tough encounters. Even if massive whining ensues over their difficulty, raids should be the final step in the difficulty ladder for the game.

-Mostly Currency rewards. No i don’t mean emblems and badges from that other MMO, i mean Money, XP, Karma, and crafting mats. This way, there will be adequate compensation for overcoming the challenges, but people won’t feel obligated to do the content just for the phat lewts. Make a kitten cool armor skin or something else cosmetic for doing the raid, but don’t overdo it or else people will start to feel obligated. Runes are also fine, as long as they are exotic tier only.

You shouldn’t make any content obligatory, for that matter, or else the game starts to feel like a job. People should WANT to do something because it sounds fun/challenging.

-Raids should feel like raids, not the 100-floor tower of bosses. I think the Temples are the best example of what a raid should be, save the fact that they are open world. You can never expect to hold a temple indefinitely, simply move in and take what you can from it for a brief moment.

-Reward accomplishment in raids more dynamically, similar to the bronze/silver/gold contribution medals in place already. For example, say the first encounter is “X person is trying to close the side gate, so to stall for time they send a legendary abomination out to hold you off.” If you beat the abomination fast enough, you should be able to run through the side gate and acquire a different path through the raid with more possible rewards than you would if you had let the gate close. Or you could take a third option and use an Asuran mind control device or something to take the abomination and barge your way through a third gate. Compare that to “either you kill the boss or you don’t”, and you have a lot of possibilities for raids, depending on what the group is capable of/feels like doing.

This is exactly what I was refering too in regards to being creative.

5 stars for this guy.

Ephesus.7291:

It has been said several times here, if you want raid go WoW. I rather see more people doing meta’s and temples event, etc. I like GW2 because it is going up a different path and I’d like to give them a chance to build something new in MMO’s. More content? Well, get online this weekend LOST SHORES!

Unless that content patch has enough content to tie people over until the next content patch, people will start to look else where and just to calrify, WoW was not the only game to have raiding…………everytime someone mentions WoW, a little peice of me dies inside.

Sorry, but thats about how simple it is.

DivineBeing.2086:

Yea, I fully agree the infractions on this forum are absolutely ridiculous.

I have only received infractions for two reasons: my tone, and posts not contributing.

There was only one post that received an infraction for “my tone”. And I agree with that one, no problems there.

Now, the whole “posts not contributing” is complete bull. One post was the meaning of contributing. The OP was asking why he got charged twice when he clicked the same button twice in the TP. I told him why and explained how a game server worked. Legitimate post, but was infracted for “not contributing”. Sent an email to have that infraction lifted but no response, SURPRISE!

Second time was recently when all I posted was +1 <insert user name here>. I can see why they would think that doesn’t contribute, but here is my justification. If someone clearly stated the problem PERFECTLY than why should I have to reiterate what that person just said and run the risk of stating it wrong. So you just don’t post saying that you agree with that guy? Ok. How does that look then? Others who don’t agree with the post (or even developers if it’s a game issue) will see ONLY ONE post regarding that issue. What would any person think then? It’s a one off issue, or it’s not really a big issue since nobody else agrees with that poster. Sorry but +1 a poster contributes to the thread. It’s a visual acknowledgment that says, “hey, I completely agree with everything you just stated and I want others to see that too”.

I seriously get the feeling that if a moderator doesn’t like your post or disagrees with you, he will begin searching through his arbitrary list of rules that exists but players can’t see them or know about them, and picks one. Hmmmmmmm, does that post qualify as “verbal abuse”, maybe “harrassment”, nah I will go with the generic “post doesn’t contribute” since that takes a judgement call (guess who makes that judgement call).

The best thing you can do to help ensure you don’t receive an infraction is by putting the following words in every post:

“I love moderators, they are always right and never wrong. Anet is the best.”

That should pretty much make the post safe.

I have come to notice that, if people do not agree with your point of view, they report it for being off-topic then a Forum Moderator doesn’t even bother reading it, they just open-can-tip-out-response.

Thats about how easy it is to shut someone down you don’t agree with.

I just recieved an infraction for posting a thread about not recieving email replies from forums@arena.net, no PM’s and no reasoning behind being banned on the forums……..

Complete and utter joke.

They want feed back about the game, but ban/infraction those they do not like the tone off.

Anet needs to get on top of this. Sack the company currently doing it and employ people who understand english.

Vlaxitov.5693:

Taemek.1602:

Start thinking creatively……this is the 21st century, not the 90’s.

This “creative thinking” you’re talking about has really just ended up being codeword for dumbed down. You seem to draw the assertion that you’re an oldschool mmo player and if thats so, then you should know that the makers of these games have been steadily simplifying them in attempt to sell more of their product.

So a big hoorah for the 21st century and mmo makers who think they can appeal to the original fanbase and soccer moms at the same time. A big hoorah for one size fits all gaming. Lets all celebrate this era of mediocracy in video games and tell anyone who doesen’t like it that they need to “start thinking creatively.”

When it comes to the raiding I don’t see this game supporting anything higher than a ten man dungeon and it would still be fun. Anything bigger than a ten man and the mechanics of this game would make such a raid either really frustrating or about as meaningful as the dragon fight zergs.

You won’t get an argument from me in how this has damaged the MMORPG industry today.

I think, that if a game was to try and turn the tides in regards to longevity, creativity and a community aspect again that we would have a winner.

The downfall is not so much the casual nature, it sure as hell part of it, but what also plays a large part of it is, the simple fact that game designers have a hard time keeping up releasing content to keep people interested. Even though people like to think that the majority of the player base is casual in nature, the truth is, yet again, if they aren;t playing this game, they are playing another. Some people have several games on the go but might only play them all for a few hours per week which equals 20 – 30 hours per week across several games.

So even though people like to think they play casually, they still eventually run out of content and look else where or even just quit outright claiming they have seen it all before. This is where most companies begin thier buy back schemes, you know, free play time, special items etc if you come back and play etc etc to try and regain those players.

I think you and I both know where the industry is headed, the sad thing is, alot of other people don’t, but unless 20+ million people just stopped paying/playing MMORPG’s tomorrow, nothing will change and companies will keep abusing this cookie cutter template for a quick buck.

castlemanic.3198:

Taemek.1602:

Further content could be the gate, if it was something as trivial as skins, I doubt no one would do it. It could be a gate for future skill points, who knows, the possibilities of reasoning behind raid content is truely endless. Gear grinds are a lazy mans tool to justify it.

Raid content has to serve a purpose or it is irrelevant.

Why does there need to be gates? There doesnt! simple as that. We already have a form of raiding, those large scale events, there doesnt need to be more of that in an instanced environment.

The part where you have to actively participate in it, it isn’t required and you are missing the point here because I doubt you played MMORPG’s in their prime 15 – 20 years ago.

Do me a favour and use your definition of what community means to you, not the text book dictionary version of it. Tell us what it is.

You’re right, seeing as i wasn’t even alive 21 years ago. However, that’s irrelevant seeing as gaming culture as a whole is shifting towards allowing players to have lives if they so desire. Now a days, there is more emphasis on having fun than having a second job in an online world (probably the only benefit of the gaming industry going truly commercial), which is essentially what you’re asking for if everyone must be required to do raids on this specific day of the week during these specific hours, no excuses (exaggeration for effect).

A manner that you’re right about is that there are less and less people who are accepting others the way communities used to. If you don’t have this achievement, you’re dirt, and I’m glad that GW2 is atleast trying to move away from that mentality.

And I DID use my definition. It happens to coincide with the dictionary term of it, and why should it not?

You seem to be slightly misinformed, you see, not much has changed in the past 20 years in regards to how we spend our time. We all had social lives back then, kids, mortages, responsibilities and we still have that now today, however, there wasn’t many MMORPG’s on the market which allowed us to spend years achieving what people, like yourself, have come to expect in a few short months.

This is where the community aspect of it has been damaged and what you percieve as fun has come at a price to the industry in regards to the community.

Again, the younger generation truely have no concept of this, the truth is simply this, with how the market is today, if you aren’t playing this game, you are playing another, if you aren’t playing that game, you are playing another and it goes on and on. So while the games are simply casual in nature today, you churn through more of them with little requirement to be part of any real community in the name of fun.

Sorry, but I fail to see the fun in that.

castlemanic.3198:

Also you didnt bother to comment on how it would gate content from most GW2 players.

Further content could be the gate, if it was something as trivial as skins, I doubt no one would do it. It could be a gate for future skill points, who knows, the possibilities of reasoning behind raid content is truely endless. Gear grinds are a lazy mans tool to justify it.

Raid content has to serve a purpose or it is irrelevant.

castlemanic.3198:

And really? there isn’t that sense of community now? Here we are, a big giant community of players hanging out, playing together and talking about how to improve the game. What part of community is missing?

The part where you have to actively participate in it, it isn’t required and you are missing the point here because I doubt you played MMORPG’s in their prime 15 – 20 years ago.

Do me a favour and use your definition of what community means to you, not the text book dictionary version of it. Tell us what it is.

castlemanic.3198:

there is absolutely no need for raids, especially because they go against the entire concept of Guild Wars 2, and here’s how:

ArenaNet have stated multiple times over the course of development that GW2 would not have a gear treadmill or a gear grind. While not all games follow this path towards raiding, most do.

Having content that requires more and more players is directly gating that content, meaning that not all the players are going to be able to experience it. Dungeons and group events are already designed as group content, with dungeons requiring only 5 people and different difficulties for those who would prefer them, and group events requiring many players without it being instanced and it’s easy for anyone to join. There are already options for those who prefer large group content or instanced content, combining both would only serve a very loud, very small minority of players while shutting out the large majority of players from that content.

If people like the large scale PvE content, go do events in large groups, it’ll make it more difficult.

as for the comment “once upon a time, MMOs were actually MMOs”, games themselves and game culture changes over time. GW2 is probably the most MMO a game has gone, because it actually allows players to work together towards a common goal witout hampering other people in the process, and GW2 rewards you for helping other people, most other MMO’s out there punishes you for being in the same group by having minimal amounts of loot that everyone desires and then forces you to do that same content again just to be further punished. And if you so happen across a field of monsters that you need to kill a bunch of for a quest, and anoter player is there, you hate them because they’re not allowing you to complete your quest.

So really? MMOs like that who punish players for working together were “real MMO’s”. Doesnt sound like an MMO at all to me.

Why does everyone automatically jump on the bandwagon that raids = gear grind/treadmill?

Start thinking creatively……this is the 21st century, not the 90’s.

Also, MMORPG used to mean being part of a community where you logged in to play with friends more so then gear grind. Gaining gear while adventuring was a side bonus to that. GW2, you can play solo from level 1 to 80 and still achieve everything in the game without having to interact with anyone, unless you choose to do your legendary at which point, 95% of that can be completed without the help of others. In regards to being part of a guild, again, you don’t even need that here. There is very little left to be desired in the pharse or term behind MMORPG today.

You truely have no idea of the old school mentaility of what it meant to be part of that genre, so please do not try and comment on it.

Azaziel.3608:

I played this game so hated around here for a couple of years and never found a 10+ dungeon people more fun than a 5 one, never knew why people liked it so much…
I never had a pve dedicated guild so it was annoying as hell gather the group and if it took too long people started to leave and then after 2 hours just of putting the group together you’d just settle with anyone who would be willing to come along so finally you could enter the dungeon, just to wipe at the first boss because the group sucked. Of course then a couple more would leave and then it’s another hour to replace them. Now if you were lucky the group would suck less but there would be some random wipe who knows why, but eventually you’d get it done, after spending from 3 to 5 hours to complete the kitten thing. so in total you invested 7-9 hours of your life in doing something where the fights were as fun as doing a 45 minute 5-man dungeon.

If you want massive things ask for better events, better loot if you like, some sort of wvw twist maybe, but I will ever be against raid dungeons for what I said above…
I do not agree this “if you don’t like the game then leave” thing, but then you should realize this game took a little step in getting away from the mmo mainstream, it wouldn’t make sense to ask for them to start taking that step back…

The reason alot of people like raiding content is the coordination that is required to complete it and the accomplishment that goes with it.

Once upon a time, MMORPG’s were actually, MMORPG’s. Now, they are but a mere shadow of there former selves and are only getting worse every year.

I will never really understand the hate towards raiding content.

I see no issue with them and if the game can cater to multiple crowds, all the better imho.

The more the merrier. Plus, I have always been a hardcore raiding fan since EQ1.

Gilosean.3805:

Or low-paid people in Third World countries who don’t really know English and aren’t paid enough to care.

^ This, unfortunately it is true.

Whats worse is, if you even remotely try and dispute an infraction, you don’t even get a reply.

They simply don’t care.

Pandemoniac.4739:

I think with the amount of traffic on the forums, special situations like yours could get overlooked, especially if someone in the community was helping out and flagged it. I would definitely drop an email to ANet and let them know. If another mistake is made, you wouldn’t want to have to sort it out while on a posting suspension.

I disagree, I just came off a 7 day ban from the forums for no reason what so ever.

I think that the forum mods here need a lesson in reading comprehension and learning what truely deserves an infraction and what deserves a warning for an infraction.

At the current moment, everything is getting hit with direct infractions.

To the OP, no infractions do not seem to go away. I went for 13 days with no infractions, only to like I said, get hit with a ban for 7 days, no reason, no email and no PM sent in regards to what post it was about.

My question is, under what pretense are people “reporting” posts with legitimate issues only for those people raising the issues to be smashed with a infractions/bans.

Secondly, just look around the forums, I can see several threads that should of been shut down weeks ago, but are still flaming away.

VanderBeltLegacy.4736:

Taemek.1602:

VanderBeltLegacy.4736:

Time Warp, Decoy, “FH!”….oh no, I stomped some1 fast while Stealth on my mesmer…

seriously, with “Mass Invisibility”+any buffed class=Super Stomp…

i dont see the thief’s needing a nerf,, just cus there class make it look easy….

and 1 last time, K.B’s etc, can all hit you in stealth, and my guardian survived a thief doing “Stealth Finishers” with KB… so dont say theres no second chance.

Again (like a broken record), this is a stealth related issue across the board, not directly aimed at the Thief, however, they benefit from it the most due to being able to stealth every 3-5 seconds.

This does not nerf Thief, in any way.

This stops people from using Stealth to trivialize a Finish Them! move including what you used as an example.

Again (like a broken record), and 1 last time, K.B’s etc, can all hit you in stealth, nothing unbalanced and i REPEAT "my guardian survived a thief doing “Stealth Finishers” with KB… so dont say theres no second chance." <<because there is, also seen an engineer survive 1, and ranger and warrior, even survived on my mesmer(love that shadow step away into stealth)…..now necro, fighting them is “meh”, you just get sick of “life forces” advantages, but i dont cry for that to be nerfed, i FOUND a way around it.

3 seconds later after the KB he/she just re-invis’s up and stealth stomps you…

VanderBeltLegacy.4736:

Time Warp, Decoy, “FH!”….oh no, I stomped some1 fast while Stealth on my mesmer…

seriously, with “Mass Invisibility”+any buffed class=Super Stomp…

i dont see the thief’s needing a nerf,, just cus there class make it look easy….

and 1 last time, K.B’s etc, can all hit you in stealth, and my guardian survived a thief doing “Stealth Finishers” with KB… so dont say theres no second chance.

Again (like a broken record), this is a stealth related issue across the board, not directly aimed at the Thief, however, they benefit from it the most due to being able to stealth every 3-5 seconds.

This does not nerf Thief, in any way.

This stops people from using Stealth to trivialize a Finish Them! move including what you used as an example.

Archmortal.1027:

Taemek.1602:

The simple fact of it is, people do not use immunity or stability based boons with x mins worth of cooldown to trivialize a finisher.

Thiefs can abuse this every 3 – 5 seconds.

If you can’t see the issue, then all you are advocating here is keeping the ability to abuse it further.

Speaking from a Guardian standpoint I can build myself to invoke stability pretty regularly. I certainly can’t keep it up as much as a Thief could keep up stealth, but with the right build it might see 10 seconds of down-time which is still plenty “abuse-able,” not to mention that I’d be granting it to several people around me. Considering again that all PvP is a group-scenario and the only way to 1v1 someone is if you encounter them roaming, there are far more people using Stability to “trivialize” the Finisher than there are people using Stealth to do so.

So yes, I’m advocating to keep Stealth as-is because it’s less powerful and less of an issue in terms of “trivializing Finishers” than any other boon that prevents interruption. I’d say Stealth ranks right there with Aegis in terms of trivialization.

This change if implemented does nothing to the Thief class at all. It does not change the powerhouse which is Thief in its current state.

This change simply removes the trivial application of rendering Finish Them! completely useless which again, is not the point of the mechanic. The point is, again, a second chance. This is removed with Stealth.

Archmortal.1027:

Taemek.1602:

Archmortal.1027:

Taemek.1602:

Again, none of you are staying on topic.

You must have an enemy targeted to use that skill is what I get when trying to execute skills on a stealthed thief, so cut the crap in regards to being able to fire off ANY skill in the game on a stealthed Thief.

Secondly, once again I will reiterate, Stealth should not allow a Finish Them! move. This was not how it was designed to be used and it removes any possible second chance no matter how slim that chance might have been and trivializes the fight.

I will also reiterate that those of you who keep ranting on about stability and immunity based boons, I would agree if those skills could be used every 5 seconds, however, they cannot be used every 5 seconds. However, Stealth can be used every 3-5 seconds depending on spec.

When in Stealth, no one should be able to Finish Them!, it should be greyed out until you come out of Stealth and show yourself. That goes for all stealth based abilities not just Thiefs.

It’s like you’re just willfully ignoring the things people say about push-backs, mistforms and all of these other things. Yes, you can’t shoot any ability at a stealthed target but not only is no one saying you can use any ability on a stealthed target but not every downed ability requires you to target anything and most of the downed abilities that can be used to interrupt the Finisher one way or another don’t require a target to be selected at all. If you’re bent on using abilities that DO require a target, TARGET SOMETHING ELSE. WvW and sPvP have plenty of targets to choose from. Being able to hit that thief for 200 damage before you’re finished off is going to be a drop of water in the ocean in group scenarios unless you’re roaming and get into a fight 1v1 in which case they’d just heal up immediately after finishing you. Nothing is trivialized here.

I’ll say again Stealth has a short CD because it’s almost worthless compared to Stability and Immunity. It doesn’t mitigate damage, it doesn’t make you immune to knocbacks/knockdowns, and it has a shorter base duration than most other boon applications (other than Immunity), it just takes away an opponent’s ability to see/target you- which again won’t matter for a majority of the downed abilities that interrupt a Finisher. If all you want to do is use regular abilities that wouldn’t actually interrupt the Finisher itself then the point is moot because those abilities can’t interrupt the Finisher anyway and only a very small number of those that don’t cause interrupts would cause any semblance of significant damage.

If someone Finishing you is dying, 98 times out of 100 it’s because they’re trigger-happy in the middle of a group vs. group swarm. 1 of those other times you’re just up against an idiot, and the last time it was a 1v1 fight that was so ridiculously close that any conditions you had up will down them before the Finisher cast bar is done (which a Thief can’t just stealth out of). I’m not seeing where Stealth trivializes anything here. I’ve heard nothing of infamous thieves stealthing into the middle of groups of opponents to finish someone before the group finishes rallying them. They simply couldn’t do it. They’d have to go around the side where attacks aren’t flying at them and then make it to the downed person and sit through a 3 second cast bar before stealth wore off even once lest they be mercilessly destroyed by AoE. And all that is assuming the group hadn’t already finished healing said downed person back up.

This is a directly related issue to stealth only, so it would apply to anyone in stealth, not just Thiefs.

It has nothing, what so ever to do with immunities or stability based boons.

You guys advocating against this are simply using blanket statements to keep this in the game.

I have been reasonably specific in my reasoning for why stealth does not trivialize anything. What I see from people supporting the OP are blanket statements like “stealth trivializes the fight” with no specific indication of how it does so other than “well I can’t target them while they finish me!” – which I have been fairly detailed in responding to by elaborating on “it wouldn’t matter if you could.”

The simple fact of it is, people do not use immunity or stability based boons with x mins worth of cooldown to trivialize a finisher.

Thiefs can abuse this every 3 – 5 seconds.

If you can’t see the issue, then all you are advocating here is keeping the ability to abuse it further.

Archmortal.1027:

Taemek.1602:

Again, none of you are staying on topic.

You must have an enemy targeted to use that skill is what I get when trying to execute skills on a stealthed thief, so cut the crap in regards to being able to fire off ANY skill in the game on a stealthed Thief.

Secondly, once again I will reiterate, Stealth should not allow a Finish Them! move. This was not how it was designed to be used and it removes any possible second chance no matter how slim that chance might have been and trivializes the fight.

I will also reiterate that those of you who keep ranting on about stability and immunity based boons, I would agree if those skills could be used every 5 seconds, however, they cannot be used every 5 seconds. However, Stealth can be used every 3-5 seconds depending on spec.

When in Stealth, no one should be able to Finish Them!, it should be greyed out until you come out of Stealth and show yourself. That goes for all stealth based abilities not just Thiefs.

It’s like you’re just willfully ignoring the things people say about push-backs, mistforms and all of these other things. Yes, you can’t shoot any ability at a stealthed target but not only is no one saying you can use any ability on a stealthed target but not every downed ability requires you to target anything and most of the downed abilities that can be used to interrupt the Finisher one way or another don’t require a target to be selected at all. If you’re bent on using abilities that DO require a target, TARGET SOMETHING ELSE. WvW and sPvP have plenty of targets to choose from. Being able to hit that thief for 200 damage before you’re finished off is going to be a drop of water in the ocean in group scenarios unless you’re roaming and get into a fight 1v1 in which case they’d just heal up immediately after finishing you. Nothing is trivialized here.

I’ll say again Stealth has a short CD because it’s almost worthless compared to Stability and Immunity. It doesn’t mitigate damage, it doesn’t make you immune to knocbacks/knockdowns, and it has a shorter base duration than most other boon applications (other than Immunity), it just takes away an opponent’s ability to see/target you- which again won’t matter for a majority of the downed abilities that interrupt a Finisher. If all you want to do is use regular abilities that wouldn’t actually interrupt the Finisher itself then the point is moot because those abilities can’t interrupt the Finisher anyway and only a very small number of those that don’t cause interrupts would cause any semblance of significant damage.

If someone Finishing you is dying, 98 times out of 100 it’s because they’re trigger-happy in the middle of a group vs. group swarm. 1 of those other times you’re just up against an idiot, and the last time it was a 1v1 fight that was so ridiculously close that any conditions you had up will down them before the Finisher cast bar is done (which a Thief can’t just stealth out of). I’m not seeing where Stealth trivializes anything here. I’ve heard nothing of infamous thieves stealthing into the middle of groups of opponents to finish someone before the group finishes rallying them. They simply couldn’t do it. They’d have to go around the side where attacks aren’t flying at them and then make it to the downed person and sit through a 3 second cast bar before stealth wore off even once lest they be mercilessly destroyed by AoE. And all that is assuming the group hadn’t already finished healing said downed person back up.

This is a directly related issue to stealth only, so it would apply to anyone in stealth, not just Thiefs.

It has nothing, what so ever to do with immunities or stability based boons.

You guys advocating against this are simply using blanket statements to keep this in the game.

Jia Shen.4217:

Lutharr.1035:

if the dont want gear progression they will have to churn out content at a very fast pace to keep people playing. They wanna sell those gems so they need people to play, that wont be the case if they get bored.

As people have said before gating and gear progression is a subtle (well probably not so subtle these days) of making content last longer. Without it you need more content.

And here we have the reason for this kind of thing to be added. See the thing is they don’t want you to keep playing longer than you want to play. Their whole mission is contrary to the traditional model of milking the customer by keeping them playing longer than they need to. Their mission is make a game that is fun to play that people want to play because it is fun to play. And when they have had all the fun they can out of the current content they go off and do something else and come back to the game. I’m not sure if there is much point in talking business models as it too often degrades into arguing.

The bottom line is all you need is enough people playing and buying the game to continue to operate the game and still make a profit. You don’t need those people to never stop playing the game. This is easily proved by looking at quarterly statements to see just how many people have to buy the game (expansion) each year to cover those costs. The rest is profit. Having a cash shop means this can be achieve with even less players buying the game as they likely will spend more money that way and some not think twice about it because they feel it worth it. But the rest don’t have too and it works out great for everyone. As long as people have fun with the game others will buy the game because their friend(s) are having fun. I think you underestimate the power that has to drive sales. They don’t need to churn content so fast that everyone that starts playing doesn’t stop playing to maintain the revenue needed to operate and continue developing.

But anyways, my point again is nobody needs another uber object, gain in levels, or carrot to chase after to have a reason to play the game. They only think they do because they have been convinced they need it from all the games out there who’s business model relies/relied on deceiving their player base into thinking that way in order to get them to keep playing so that they keep paying more than they needed to. And I’m sorry if I hit any nerves with that statement. Sure some people will have fun repeating content but it gets old quick if the only reason you do it is for the carrot your chasing after.

Believe me I’ve gone down that road. I’d have fun at first because it was something new and might have even had a neat story with it. I even got caught up in the grind tredmill for that next gear item. And then shortly into that I came to the realization that I was being stupid and only doing content to get the gear but hated the fact that I was doing it only for that reason. The content wasn’t fun. So I snap myself out of that because I want to have fun playing games not have them be a second job.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Dromar.1027:

GW2 already discriminates against those who enjoy the game but want a challenge. PvE, sPvP and WvW offer no challenge whatsoever atm.

That’s really not down to the game not having a gear progression. That’s down to the mechanics of the Dungeons and DE’s.

If the Dungeons were incredibly difficult, more-so than now, or the DE’s had more than one threat to them so you’re mind wasn’t on loot, but where you’d be most helpful, that could be a challenge, without the need for gear progression.

I’d just add to this that wouldn’t overcoming the challenge be rewarding enough? Thus again there is no need for that gear carrot to make you want to do the content and keep playing. And challenge is quite subjective and to many the content is challenging enough. They can always add layers to the content by adding uber challenge modes to satisfy that smaller player set that wants that super challenge that isn’t in the game yet. But there is no need to tie an uber reward with it there by excluding those who already find the current content challenging enough or even too challenging. Discrimination goes both ways.

Fun in my book is having something new and fresh to do or participate in when logging in.

Doing the same old content over and over is boring = customers leave.

bwillb.2165:

Azelroth.6801:

I highly support this suggestion. It’s really unbalanced that a thief can finish someone in stealthed mode.

It goes against the very purpose of having the downed-state to begin with (having a second chance). Finishing an opponent whilst stealthed offers the downed player no 2nd chance whatsoever.

Highly unbalanced when you consider that no other profession can do this.

Mesmers also have stealth… and warriors can prevent all damage… and several classes can block or reflect projectiles…

This is a directly related issue to stealth only, so it would apply to anyone in stealth.

Archmortal.1027:

Half of what you said contradicts itself just because of the assertion that time is irrelevant. Honestly that’s an assertion that would offend the senses of most people who “pull the real life card too often when in fact when they are not playing this game, you know they are playing another game…” sidenote: people that say Real Life leaves little time to deal with gated content and endless grinds generally mean it. That they play an MMO at all is a testament to how entertaining they find it- that they play one like this with no gated content or gear grind adds credence to their statement that they prefer not having them because they don’t have time to deal with such nonsense.

People have not come to expect things to be instant. People are simply coming around to the realization that Real Life leaves little in the way of free time because most jobs take up 75% of the waking day and most careers take up even more. This causes the desire to not deal with gated content and endless grinds just to play the game they like, as stated above.

“What happened to the days where people were happy spending 1-2 years gaining gear?” Well people spent a year or two doing nothing but gear-grinding and they realized it only took so long because of the endless grinding fluff and they didn’t like it, so they came to a game whose developers stated a very open, fervent intention to never have one. Turns out they like it!

You just don’t get it.

Years ago when people were happy playing a game for years, we did so for the community aspect of it. We still had social lives, kids, mortages etc. We weren’t some hermit dwelling teenage kids in mums basement who played 12 – 14 hours, 7 days a week.

We played casually for years gained what we could in the time we spent playing and enjoyed each others company while adventuring. Today however, people tend to pull the life card more then they should, we all work (most of us), we all have problems (bills, mental health issues etc), we all have social lives (going out with family and friends etc), however they tend to abuse this using it as a means to gain access to content faster. We all know that if you aren’t playing this game, you are simply playing another so the time you would of spent here gaming is just spent in another game elsewhere, so you can’t fool us, we are the ginger bread men. Nothing has changed with how we spend our time out of game any different to how it was 15 years ago with the expection of how todays generation percieves that time spent. Today people are in more of a rush.

Making content more accessible and easier has done good and bad for the MMORPG industry. It removed the fear that people like yourself had where the general perception of MMORPG gaming was having no life, living on a game to simply farm gear, which it wasn’t. This increased the amount of people to cater games too on a yearly basis where there was only 3 or 4 titles to choose from. However, what it has done over that past 15 years is, killed the community aspect of it.

There was a sense of pride and loyalty back in the day with MMORPG gaming, now, there is simply game hoppers.

Again, none of you are staying on topic.

You must have an enemy targeted to use that skill is what I get when trying to execute skills on a stealthed thief, so cut the crap in regards to being able to fire off ANY skill in the game on a stealthed Thief.

Secondly, once again I will reiterate, Stealth should not allow a Finish Them! move. This was not how it was designed to be used and it removes any possible second chance no matter how slim that chance might have been and trivializes the fight.

I will also reiterate that those of you who keep ranting on about stability and immunity based boons, I would agree if those skills could be used every 5 seconds, however, they cannot be used every 5 seconds. However, Stealth can be used every 3-5 seconds depending on spec.

When in Stealth, no one should be able to Finish Them!, it should be greyed out until you come out of Stealth and show yourself. That goes for all stealth based abilities not just Thiefs.

Stealth is a core mechanic behind the Thief class.

Immunity, Stability skills etc etc are not core mechanics for any class and they have large reuse timers usually.

Stealth can be spammed, immunity based skills cannot.

Stealth allows for no target to be present for trivializing a Finish Them! move every 3-5 seconds depending on build.

Immunity, Stability etc based skills allow it every x minutes.

If you are still even remotely trying to justify it with this argument, then I am gobb smacked.

With this, I leave it at this because I am honestly sick to death of repeating myself. If you have Thiefs in here agreeing with this, that about sums it up really.

castlemanic.3198:

Dromar.1027:

Instead of messing with the gear system why not have traits that are for raids specifically that only work in raid type dungeons and if you want to give it some longevity you can make it so you have to collect random drops from bosses and mobs to finally acquire the trait.

because that gates content from those who dont have the time to collect the random drops within a week. Those who don’t have the drops won’t be able to participate in raids, and raids then become elitist only. It discriminates between those who have time and those who don’t.

Time is irrelevant. Time is not even real anyway, it is a fake system for us to measure a day, week, month, year.

Besides that point, the issue here is not time itself but what people have come to expect. People expect to be able to gain things faster with little to no gates or hoops to jump through. Todays MMORPG genre simply try and pull the life card too often when in actual fact, if you/they are not playing this game, you know they are playing another game, if they aren’t playing that game, they are playing another game and it goes on and on.

The old saying goes here, what you put into it is what you get back out of it, however, greedy instant gratification is what is destroying what used to be once an awesome community to be a part of. What ever happened to the days where people were happy spending 1-2 years gaining gear?

It is what is killing this industry and forcing us into a distinct RPG model where you can basically play solo for your entire characters life and not have to interact with the community on any level.

This removes the MMO from MMMORPG.

Doggie.3184:

There’s a lot of ways to fortify a finisher, why remove this one? Guardians can throw their troll bubble over people or use stability to finish people guaranteeing. You can still teleport away, hit or aoe thieves in stealth. You and your allies need to just pay attention better. Thief is also the most fragile class in the entire game and are 100% wide open during finisher. Most of the time people just aren’t smart enough to realized I’m doing a stealth finisher and are sitting there regening or rezzing player instead of swinging at me when they just saw me use stealth.

Again, not the issue.

People need to learn reading comprehension before replying to a post unfortunately.

You guys keep splashing skills around like they are instant reuse, they aren’t.

Stealth can be reused every 5 seconds, none of these skills can. If you spec for ini gain, you can stealth every 3 seconds. Start comparing apples to oranges or don’t compare at all, some of those skills you are trying to justify this with have x mins reuse.

Again, none of your examples or arguments hold any water.

Fact is, stealth gives an advantage no other class has, end of story.

Black Dragon.3784:

Hey hey, theifs need it, if you think it is that powerful become a thief.

As they say if you can not beat them join them XD

I have a Thief and on occassion have used it.

It is boring after the first 10 times, needless to say, it is easily abused.

MithranArkanere.8957:

In GW2 you don’t need to target.
All you need to know is stay in range and use the skill, and it’ll hit.
Any knockback will hit them as long as they are not single target and one of their allies intercepts the hit, so skills that can knockback multiple enemies like Illusionary Wave will do the trick even better than skills like Point Blank Shot.

And if one of their allies uses stability with skills like “Stand Your Ground!”, you can still remove it, because it’s a boon. Boons can be removed.

Stealth isn’t immunity. With immunities like Obsidian Flesh I would agree. It’s also good that you can’t Finish under Death Shroud, since it’s an entire HP bar on top of another, but Stealth isn’t an immunity. It only prevents detection and targeting, it doesn’t remove the thief’s last location from your memory, and won’t prevent damage or boon removal if hit by skills.

Negative, you get a massive red writing across your screen, telling you, you have no target.

This has been addressed in this thread already.

Rika.7249:

Stealth does not mean immune.
People seem to forget that.
Guardians will stop us from stealth-finishing.
Eles will stop us from stealth-finishing.
Thieves will stop us from stealth-finishing.
Aiming in the general direction of the thief will stop him with all other classes (maybe with the exception of necro and ranger.)

Let’s take a look at Ele’s mistform, and warrior/guardian stability.
Good. Now we’ve realized that stealth-stomping isn’t even half as threatening as those 3.
We’ve also realized that stealth-stomping is one of the few things thieves are good at and should be able to. I agree with quickness that shouldn’t affect the cast-time. Stealth shouldn’t drop though. We’re squishy enough as is, we don’t need to be even more squishy.

Katsumoto.9452:

Ok let’s have a look here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_downed_skills

Assuming you are a plank and run around solo in WvW or 8v8 PvP let us see what a player can do.

Thief: Teleport away.
Mesmer: Make a bunch of illusions, which will make you dodge the finish them.
Guardian: Blow up a great big push back interrupting the stealth finisher.
Elementalist: Mist form away.
Necromancer: Fear (not sure this one requires target).
Engineer: If you last long enough, great big explosion.
Warrior: Get up and start fighting (whichever plank thought that was a good idea needs shooting).
Ranger: Needs a target

As for the guy saying ‘buy you need a target to use certain skills from downed’. Well duh. But if your target is using stability, who cares? Your interrupt of the finisher won’t do anything anyway. If it doesn’t do anything, then nothing is done and therefore it’s the same as not being able to use the ability. Half the classes can still move away (mist form from downed).

As for the second chance stuff. It should not give you a really good second chance, absolutely not. Downed state in PvP is bad enough as it is, in WvW even worse as you can res from fully finished.

If you want to remove stealth stomping, aka the Thief’s only real way to stomp from any form of safety, you better bloody remove stability and invulnerability stomping. I’d take invuln over stealth any day for some reason. It can’t be interrupted and you can’t be killed. Woohoo.

AGAIN, you can STILL target those classes.

A stealthed Thief cannot be targeted, therefor, trivializing a Finish Them! move.

It has nothing to do, with being immune…..it is a target issue where you can simply not use ANY of your downed abilities, that is the issue. Even if any of those classes you guys mentioned was immune etc, you can still teleport/get a second chance from the downed state because you have a physical target.

What alot of people fail to understand with this topic is, downed state is suppose to be a mechanic for a second chance. If you cannot execute the skills you have in a downed state = broken mechanic.

Why are people acting like Thiefs can’t get stability either?

People in this thread tend to like to use organized group as an argument to vs a Thief, well I can tell you right now, an organized group is going to have someone casting an aoe stability based buff upon executing a pvp encounter thats for sure.

Kaizer.7135:

Taemek.1602:

Kaizer.7135:

Ummmm NO, Thief’s can be downed by another player in downed. We need stealth, if we didn’t have it we could just Quickness>Heartseeker spam which kills about 1 sec more than the “FINISH HIM” animation

lol?

No. There’s nothing funny about getting hit for alot by downed players.

I agree, I was laughing about having the ability to finish someone off almost as fast as Finish Them!.

I dunno man, I have been basically one shoot from Thiefs with a backstab combo that takes my 23k life away in no time flat. Mind you though, I am not vit/tough built.

The fact that they can consume all your life almost the instant they come out of stealth is a little unbalanced, even still with the few adjustments they have had.

Did someone break the thread?

MrMacAndCheese.3907:

Taemek.1602:

crewthief.8649:

Probably shorten the duration of Moa Morph, this would at least shut the vocal minority up. Otherwise, we’ve been nerfed quite alot the past several patches (the Phantasm Build), not really sure anything else needs nerfing.

If they lower the duration, I would like the coold down lowered also then.

Otherwise, another useless ability.

I’ve stopped using Moa Morph in PvE. While it does help to render a Champion pretty useless for 10s, their HP doesn’t change, and in the end, no one is able to damage him better then before. Time Warp is better if your team is coordinated, or even lucky, in the case of random DE.

I find myself using Balthazars Hounds, as a Human solo lvling, then anything else, cus they just kitten for you.

There have already been numerous attacks and counter attacks for Moa Morph, with vids and stuff, but it is all PvP based. Moa doesn’t help so much in PvE, and its been proven to be survivable in PvP, so just let it go.

I agree which is why I use TW and Reaper in PvP or TW if taking forts etc.