Guild Wars 2

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Tbh, I have not been around long, only since december, but in that time I have seen a unbeliveably rapid increase in the prices of precursors.

I am far from what you would call a casual gamer, i invest more hours into the game per week then most people, i did 0-20 fractal in 3 days etc, good days i make about 12g and this is running constant fractals/jormag/shatterer I am definatly not lucky when it comes to sellable loot, and i doubt im the only one.

Atm and since december the price of the intresting precursors have been rising more per day then i can possibly make, and like I said I play a unhealthy amount of time per day..

I just don’t see how any logic could justify the current rarity of the precursor.. to me the idea of the precursor is to serve as reason to keep grinding the other 75% of the legendary.. a motivator if you will.. but at current that motivator is pretty much unobtainable unless you:

1: get that one in a MILLION precursor from Mf, which also requires absurd amounts of gold to fuel i might add.

2: get that one in a gazillion precursor from a major chest or random mob.

It is one thing when the materials you need 200+ for etc go up fast in price, because you can buy them over a long period of time, you don’t need to pay for the entire stack in on go.

The problem with the precursor is its a single SUPER rare item, and that gives it far to much power in the market..

quite honestly, tp users might find it unfair, but I feel that any given account should only ever be able to have 1 precursor of the same type in theyr possession, this would make it far more difficult to manipulate.

I’ve seen the posts about scavenger hunts etc (4 months ago -.-), and the post where anet claims they will take steps if need be… I am no economist.. but even to me it is painfully clear that steps need to be taken when a no-lifer like myself has no chance in hell at keeping up with the day to day rise in price of the precursors.

I can’t speak for everyone but getting a legendary is one of the main things that keep a player intrested while waiting for new content.. and when that legendary is near unobtainable, well then there is a obvious flaw in the system.

Justify it? What the actual kitten? You mean now people have to take into consideration other peoples feelings when they list stuff on the tp? Is that justice?

Fortuna.7259:

Tarang.7562:

Nike.2631:

goldi.3129:

I will never understand such threads in which people seem to insist that they have the right to certain endgame items for almost nothing.

I can’t say that I’ve EVER seens someone claim they have the right to certain endgame items for almost nothing… except for poorly disguised attempts at strawman arguments by defenders of the status quo.

So, what it boils down to is this: People are whining because they think something is expensive. Tough luck.

No that isn’t what people are complaining about. Precursor prices continue to increase about as fast as some people make money. 200g then 300g then 500g then 700g then… ? Meanwhile, all the cash they are saving is suffering from inflation across the board. So they are just spinning wheels. You show a notable lack of empathy for what is really happening.

I should show empathy towards people that whine about luxury stuff?

Khisanth.2948:

Tarang.7562:

goldi.3129:

Buttercup.5871:

Food ingredient constantly double or triple in price. When you know what the “normal” price of an item should be, stock up. Same thing for lotus root, black pepperkorn, orrian truffles etc etc etc. All of the items you use. Actually, with the 28 jan update it’s quite logical snow truffles went up in price, as ppl now spend less time in frostgorge sound (and more time in Orr, which is why Orrian truffles went down).

Please don’t try logic when its far easier to cry “market manipulation”.

On a serious note everyone should try your approach before running into the forums and jumping onto the marketmanipulatorhunt.

Oh, I am with you 100% on this, but this was market manipulation. Check gw2spidy, all the stock was bought up within an hour.

Are you aware of how spidy works? It is not real time. It doesn’t see all changes. More importantly are we even looking at the same GW2Spidy? http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/12144 doesn’t have any listing volume data past Jan 24. For the data it DOES have each data point covers an 8 hour time span. How can you say anything happened within an hour when the data only tells you what happened within an 8 hour period?

Because there are other sites out there that does the exact same thing. Here, let me help you with it: http://www.guildwarstrade.com/item/12144

Good enough?

goldi.3129:

Tarang.7562:

goldi.3129:

Buttercup.5871:

Food ingredient constantly double or triple in price. When you know what the “normal” price of an item should be, stock up. Same thing for lotus root, black pepperkorn, orrian truffles etc etc etc. All of the items you use. Actually, with the 28 jan update it’s quite logical snow truffles went up in price, as ppl now spend less time in frostgorge sound (and more time in Orr, which is why Orrian truffles went down).

Please don’t try logic when its far easier to cry “market manipulation”.

On a serious note everyone should try your approach before running into the forums and jumping onto the marketmanipulatorhunt.

Oh, I am with you 100% on this, but this was market manipulation. Check gw2spidy, all the stock was bought up within an hour.

It was maybe a try. The 20k bos checked ingame are a 5k wall at 1.16 and the rest is in small bits. Price is down to 1.75 in sellorders as well.

Oh, for sure it didn’t succeed, but it is still manipulation to an extent.

Nike.2631:

goldi.3129:

I will never understand such threads in which people seem to insist that they have the right to certain endgame items for almost nothing.

I can’t say that I’ve EVER seens someone claim they have the right to certain endgame items for almost nothing… except for poorly disguised attempts at strawman arguments by defenders of the status quo.

So, what it boils down to is this: People are whining because they think something is expensive. Tough luck.

goldi.3129:

Buttercup.5871:

Food ingredient constantly double or triple in price. When you know what the “normal” price of an item should be, stock up. Same thing for lotus root, black pepperkorn, orrian truffles etc etc etc. All of the items you use. Actually, with the 28 jan update it’s quite logical snow truffles went up in price, as ppl now spend less time in frostgorge sound (and more time in Orr, which is why Orrian truffles went down).

Please don’t try logic when its far easier to cry “market manipulation”.

On a serious note everyone should try your approach before running into the forums and jumping onto the marketmanipulatorhunt.

Oh, I am with you 100% on this, but this was market manipulation. Check gw2spidy, all the stock was bought up within an hour.

No, this is blatant market manipulation, one wich they will probably loose money on.

Well, you know what I think about it :P Awesome work man

All I hear when you write that stuff is: “whining, whining, whining some more, I am entitled to stuff and god kitten I am gonna get it!”

Gasoline.2570:

John Smith.4610:

Remember that Sell orders != supply and buy order != demand

Yeah and you control the supply. It’s funny isn’t it.

No, they control the potential supply. People still have to mine/harvest/open crap up to get the items.

Buttercup.5871:

Some of these changes indeed were affected by bot bans, but some have nothing to bot bans, but are purely a result of market manipulation.

A much more disconcerting manipulation that is going on right now is the pushing up of the price on crystalline dust. This mat is used for anything and everything by everyone on a daily basis. Went up in price by 300 per cent over the last 3 weeks, with constant manipulation and pushing upwards. The so blatantly obvious pushing is well reflected in the buy orders. You’ll see buy orders that are not 1, 2 or 10 copper over the last bidder, but sometimes 50 copper. And not 1 unit ordered, not 10, not even 100 but 2500. This is a very easy and guaranteed tactic to have people overbid you. Once that happens, and the price stagnates at a higher level, the price is pushed even further up using the same tactic. It’s constantly being pushed up, with large gaps in the buy order prices which shows you it’s completely artificial. On the buy end, they’ll just buy up units until the price reaches a certain price level range, namely, the level that they want it to be. Also, manipulation has been made much easier now that the triforge amulet can be upgrade to ascended, which means everybody and their mother wants one (750 crystalline dust per amulet).

The t6 mats manipulation are peanuts compared to what’s going on with crystalline dust market.

People won’t be more inclined to buy the triforge since you can get better ascended stuff anyway.

Really? You don’t think it has anything to do with, oh say the banning of bots wich decreased the supply substantially?

Meh, kitten it, lets call it market manipulation instead! HUSSAH FOR THE MANIPULATORS!

Sigh.

MagnusLL.8473:

Tarang.7562:

At what point do you subjectively deem a price fair?

Free would be ideal, but I’ll settle for one copper.

Tarang.7562:

Is it unfair for people in the real world to have nice things too?

Most definitely, especially in those cases where the only thing they did was to luck out at birth.

Tarang.7562:

That dude you saw with a fancy Ferrari, should he make sure you get one too?

At least one.

Hey, you asked… :P

Nice trollpost, more or less.

Kain Nosgoth.4218:

No, it’s not perfectly normal. The other mats didn’t go down by 320g. This is market manipulation at it’s best because now they know there will be no precursor changes until February.

Assuming you would be right (and even if not) it’s also not fair and probably the worse handled thing yet in GW2. How can they make changes that will obviously destroy everyone that started with their gifts instead of their precursor. Not forgetting the karka handout and godskull exploit with zero repercussions and low lvl rares working.

And all this after they had admitted that 350g was becoming “an unreachable goal” long before.

Time to stop acting like scared kids who did a booboo (karka thing) and don’t want to do another one to upset mommy and try a different temp fix that won’t keep Dusk at 660-990 until April + when the SH is ready (when everyone that has only 400g will start from scratch doing it, which might take 2+ more months).

• looking now I see prices are actually right back where they were for everything (if you average t6 mats for gifts)

Not fair? What the actual kitten? So, instead it would be fair if it only cost 200g? No? 150? Still not fair? What about 50g, most can come up with that, fair yet?

At what point do you subjectively deem a price fair? Is it unfair for people in the real world to have nice things too? That dude you saw with a fancy Ferrari, should he make sure you get one too?

My god, people are really starting to feel entitled to crap right now.

Well, either they are selling or people are posting them and then taking them off, cause the supply change for each and everyone of them.

Or just some rich people buying up a kittenton of Ori.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Storing your gold in items is a good idea if two assumptions are true:
1 – The item you store gold in will remain in demand.
2 – There will be long term inflation to keep that items price going up.

Both assumptions are questionable.
For assumption 1 there are two problems. Non-consumable items will lose value in the long run as demand falls as the people who want the item get it and stop wanting it (only mitigated if the rate of new character creation is equal or higher to the rate at which people stop playing characters that are farming the items/ingredients in question). Also, if people only want the item for its stats and ANET introduce an item with higher stats, demand for the older item will crash (only mitigated by the new item sharing ingredients with the old one).

As for the second assumption, the trading post fees prevent that. As the price level rises, so does the amount of gold the fees sink, slowing inflation. The end result is that, unless ANET increases the rate of gold creation, inflation will lead to the TP fees sinking gold faster than it’s being created. Which means temporary deflation and the price level cycling around an equilibrium point. The only question is if we have hit that point yet. I have yet to see anyone make a credible attempt at measuring inflation yet.

In fact, since any inflation measure would need to consider the volume of items being traded, and ANET doesn’t give us that data, I don’t think there is anyone but ANET who has enough data to measure inflation.

First point is solid. Second point is not. There are infinite amounts of gold being put into the economy each day, only atributed to how much people actually play. Just look at the dungeons and other stuff that actually creates gold from nothing. This means that sure, the TP will slow the rate of inflation somewhat but not completely stop it. Not by a longshot.

Achilles.6870:

So what I’ve got going right now is about 80% with about a 16% margin after tax that takes about a day to turnover and 20% with widely varying margins but better turnover. All in all I make about 16-20g if I can invest all 100 (I’m keeping about 10 held up for safety/ports/other).
Honestly I don’t know where people get numbers like 50% after taxes for large amounts. I do occasionally see something with a huge margin, but 10 out of 10 times it has little to no movement (i.e. avg sell/buy order <10).
Seems like the only thing reliably making me money is green wood logs so I’ve been buying 100,000 or so of them so I at least make the 16%.

Just the amount of clicking to order all that stuff must be….well, insane, pretty much.

So they are introducing passion fruit into infusions?

In what way will they rise more than they already have?

Gilosean.3805:

I think you mean, “How can it be subjective?”

Wealth is used as an objective measure of wealth because a person’s wealth is a concrete number. Same thing goes for most ways to measure a person’s progress. Horizontal progression / cool-looking stuff measurement is subjective, and avoids the whole measuring-contest problem that a lot of players have. But currencies, weapon stats, etc are all objective ways to measure.

No, I meant objective. In what way does it make you “complete” the game by having lots of gold? Does it make it more fun? Do you complete more dungeons, more content by having gold?

In this game, the anwser is pretty much no.

arabeth.2361:

I think this entire thread sums up one of the two things I like least about this game. In order to do well, you really shouldn’t “play” it – at least, not in the traditional sense (jumping puzzles, WvW, dungeons, PvP, story, grinding, whatever). The people who do the “best” in the game (which is subjective – but certainly the people with the most purchasing power, which is objective) are the ones playing the TP pvp game. It can be frustrating to be particularly bad at TP pvp and know that it makes me worse, relatively, as opposed to just being bad at playing the game, which seems more palatable. The main consolation prize is that most progression is horizontal, but there’s still a false premise generally being sold: that skill or time or effort playing the game is rewarding. TP pvp is far more rewarding with less time or effort by an evidently wide margin. And even horizontal progression is still intended progression: and still purchasing power reigns supreme.

Of course, an end-game that consisted of high-end raiding (as opposed to TP pvp and gambling, the other major form of progression) was something I didn’t care for much, either, so maybe it’s all relative in the end. But it’s just packaged differently enough that it seems disingenuous to my Western tastes.

How can it be objective to state that the ones with the most money are doing the best?

Navi.7142:

They pick up stuff in the front garden which the police unintentionally placed there, but where it can be found. Some people asked the police “Hey! Can I take this?” (And some just picked and picked and picked..) They never received an answer until the police – that had known the issue with the stuff laying around that they didn’t remove immediately when they were asked by the people if it is safe to pick them up – decided “Oh, bad bad bad exploiters. We have to arrest them and never let them out.”
^^

Doesn’t matter who put it there, it is still stealing.

Wheels.8451:

All of this could have been avoided by simply testing content thoroughly before release. I find it difficult to understand how this error went unnoticed previous to launch.
Paying customers are not beta testers.
The community is helping to enable irresponsible game development by supporting this blatant deflection.
Exploiting Arenanets blunder is also irresponsible and damages the community.
No-one would have been banned and this thread would not exist if all parties involved had done their due diligence.

Just one guys opinion..

Most people playing this game ain’t paying customers, as in we do not pay a monthly fee. You bought the game once, thats it.

Anything below 1000 salvages isn’t reliable in my book. You need numbers to even out.

Over 9000. Seriously. I kid you not. For reference, check youtube.

Since my last post got deleted, let me reprashe my self.

You, sir, have no idea what inflation is. This comes across in several posts you have made, and to implent a system that more or less makes the whole point of a TP nonexistant would probably kill all trade what so ever.

I’m seriously not sure now if some of the people in this thread are intentionally trolling or just plain stupid.

SteepledHat.1345:

They shouldn’t be botting it. Are you saying people bot the TP? Guess Anet needs to start taking a hard look at DR on the TP.

Wait, what?

I’d be more inclined to some bot/script running there actually.

My thought is, why are you posting this here? Tell it to those that handle that site instead.

How is the demand false, when everyone and their mother wants them?

Horheristo.3607:

Tarang.7562:

Kraggy.4169:

These sort of ‘guides’ depress me, I despise people who ‘flip’ prices as their way of making money instead of playing the game. Prices spiral and new players are unable to afford anything, one sees it in all MMOs of course, sadly no MMO makes items bought of the ‘AH’ un-relistable.

So it’s much better to grind, “playing” the game?

I do wonder how the market would look like if everyone earned the same steady amount of gold.

I’ll pray to every god that Anet comes up with a patch to not be able to resell items bought from TP.
That will be the day you all quit.

So, the problem with people making money is that they are not all making the same amount of money?

Kraggy.4169:

These sort of ‘guides’ depress me, I despise people who ‘flip’ prices as their way of making money instead of playing the game. Prices spiral and new players are unable to afford anything, one sees it in all MMOs of course, sadly no MMO makes items bought of the ‘AH’ un-relistable.

So it’s much better to grind, “playing” the game?

Now, thats just plain wrong.

Foulsoul.9365:

Hey aura, stop replacing his argument with one of your own and refuting it. He isnt saying that the recipes are the same, hes just saying similar things can be done and in a player controlled market that arenanet supposedly has no control over the same thing could in theory still happen.

Look at it in terms of ecto, If the original recipe cost 1 ecto (The crafted snowflake) and returned anywhere from 0 to 4 ecto (snowflake plus 3), and the 15 T5 recipe cost .5 ecto (15s for the mats) and could in theory return anywhere from 0 to 3 ecto.

the problem is mats are not fixed or that cheap usually and if its a good deal then other players will discover it and drive the prices up to a point of 0 profit.

In the case of the snowflake recipe there was still a slim chance for total loss. I had a friend invest 10gold and get 5 in return.

now i will grant you that the potential for return in this case is great, but it isnt guaranteed.

Well, thats not really true either. Given a large enough samplesize and the return is guaranteed. Wich also is the whole problem with it.

To be fair, did he ever mention leatherworking?

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Rogacz.9865:

Ath.2531:

The question i would like to ask you is: Does this bother some people because its nearly impossible to manipulate the ecto market?

Just a thought.

Really? Some people must not have made hundreds of gold on recent jewellery exploit, through exploits. Some ohters will not make extra hundreds more when ecto prices rises again?

You have a weird definition of exploit.

Please, do define your definition of exploit.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tarang.7562:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There is no harm to the other person. It’s not like he lost his item. After my goods are sold, the other high priced stuff will show up as the next “lowest” priced good. He then has an opportunity to sell, and then everyone is happy. I’m only getting to sell my stuff quicker.

And the 10 people undercutting you will make it so you can’t sell your stuff quicker. Not by any real amount anyway.

No, then I just undercut the under-cutters with more stuff at a lower rate. It’s a vicious cycle, but one I refuse to lose at.

The only time I don’t bother with undercutting by 1cp is at the end of the nite, when I log out. At that time, I’ll most likely up the amount I undercut by a 50 cp to 1 silver.

Undercutting by that much, thinking it will sell quicker? If there is still profit to be had when buy orders and sales tax are included, someone will still undercut you. Usually by just 1c. So you just lost more value, at absolutely no profit in selling the item quicker or anything.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There is no harm to the other person. It’s not like he lost his item. After my goods are sold, the other high priced stuff will show up as the next “lowest” priced good. He then has an opportunity to sell, and then everyone is happy. I’m only getting to sell my stuff quicker.

And the 10 people undercutting you will make it so you can’t sell your stuff quicker. Not by any real amount anyway.

Neodaystar.4279:

Jiro.6589:

So if i place a big order on intricate totems(2 × 250 for 1s50c each. =7.5gold x 0,05=37,5silver to list my buyorder), and someone else outbuyorders me by 1 copper with an order of 500, and someone else outbuyorders him and me, and so on and so on.
I need those totems to craft so i am going to have to cancel my buyorder and lose my 37,5 silver, or wait for buyorder to fill for god knows how long and not be able to craft. Bad.

Perhaps those orders that are placed higher than yours are fake buy orders, and implementing a fee will prevent that. In any case, 5% of 1s50c is like 7 copper. If you can afford over 6 gold of lesser mats, then 37 silver in fees shouldn’t be out of your reach.

I was looking at the price of a certain T5 mat earlier and it was around 85c each. Just as I finished creating this post on this forum, the buy order jumped to 1 silver each. I placed an order for 250 x T5 mats, and in less than 10 min I got 250 mats. I paid close attention to the price and buy orders that are beneath me for over 30 mins. And surely they are not being filled as quickly as mines were. Which tells me that they are being manipulated at the time. I would rather pay a 5% fee than see all this artificial inflation and being taken an advantage of. The way that mat went up by 15c is 15% jump in price.

So, wait, the orders below you were not filling as fast as your own order, that makes you believe that it’s market manipulation?

Exploiters? It’s called inflation. Deal with it.

tigirius.9014:

Vauleen.6571:

This one rune set has gone up so significantly in price in comparison to all the others that it is out of control. I don’t mind paying a decent amount of money to get it but the prices are skyrocketing for this at an insane rate. Please do something about this over 8G a piece is not reasonable. The next highest rune is under 4G.

Anything above 1g per rune or sigil is entirely too much imo.

Personally I’d say keep the runes and sigils at a certain cap.

The thing about the whole trait specs right now is this. Most of the classes have been pigeonholed into a single viable means of doing damage both in pve and pvp. So now everyone is after the biggest badest burst dps specs gear so now all of those items are in higher demand and the market is being controlled by a very small percentage of the populous so the prices are going to skyrocket.

It’s happening with berserker gear as well. It’s ridiculous.

Being controlled? Any hard facts to back that claim up or are you just rambling right now?

OrianZeta.1537:

Tarang.7562:

So, essentially what you want is for this to be a grinders/farmers market where you make the most gold by contributing the most raw material to the tradingpost?

If by “grinders/farmers” you mean a player generally has to play to earn and market price manipulation is much less feasible and profitable, yes, I want that economy.

So let me get this straight, you think forcing people to play in a certain way is a good move?

Cause I sure as hell know I hate PvE and all it entails, the mere thought of playing any more against crappy AI makes me want to throw up. But you wan’t to force that on me cause it’s so much more fun?

This is exactly the problem with the ascended gear right now, it is essentially forcing people to go through a dungeon even if they don’t want to, to get that kind of gear.

So, essentially what you want is for this to be a grinders/farmers market where you make the most gold by contributing the most raw material to the tradingpost?

Well, sad to say this, since I want those runes too, but it comes down to supply and demand. Those runes are kitten on a numer of different classes wich in turn mean the supply can never really meet the demand.

Thus, the price go up.