Guild Wars 2

Eponet.4829:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Surely that’s a better alternative to having to complete group events and/or purchasing traits with gold, right?

No, it isn’t. You get gold and skill points from playing every part of the game that involves mechanics in some way. You only get skill challenge completion from skill challenge completion. It’s a huge step back for anyone who isn’t a world completion player.

Gold and skill points are way too valuable to spend on traits, things that should already be unlocked from leveling up like they were a year ago.

And like I said, you hardly need to “world complete” to get 65 skill challenges done, and that’s only if you really need to get your final core spec, which, if it’s the last thing you’re unlocking, is probably not that important to your intended build.

The best thing about skill challenges is that they can be largely done solo. The worst thing about completing events for traits is that they largely can’t. AND you have to do a specific event for a specific trait you probably won’t even use, instead of earning a point that you can put towards a trait you actually want. So which is really the worse option?

Just to add my two cents to everything, since I personally don’t understand why this is such an issue, here’s what’s going to happen based on what Anet has said and my personal expectations:

—When the update drops, everyone WILL lose all unlocked skills and traits. Don’t freak out just yet.

—You will gain hero points based on your level. For most of us, this means you have 400 points at level 80.

—You will also gain additional hero points based on how many skill/hero challenges you have completed, whether that number is 1 or 220.

—465 hero points are necessary to unlock every skill and core specialization. 65 hero points is roughly equal to one core specialization. Anything extra is just extra, and will go towards future elite specializations.

—Everyone gets EVERYTHING unlocked in sPvP, regardless of how many hero points you may or may not have. If you purchase Heart of Thorns, all elite specializations are available to you.

—The only real problem WvW-only players may face IMO are those additional 65 skill points. Unless you experience physical pain when entering PvE zones, it might be a good idea to roam n00b-level zones and grab as many skill challenges as possible. You only need 65 to complete, which isn’t much at all.

Surely that’s a better alternative to having to complete group events and/or purchasing traits with gold, right?

Spite and Curses are easily my two favorite lines right now to combo with Reaper. The synergy is just insane.

Bitter Chill + Chilling Darkness + Terror + Deathly Chill + Close to Death = Damaging Chill with Blind and Fear that ALSO inflicts Vuln while allowing you to deal more damage below 50% in addition to Fear dealing max damage…AND, you do 20% even more damage to your foe if below 50% health!

And don’t forget Chilling Force, which grants you might every time you strike a chilled foe! Basically, if you chill someone even remotely at half-health, they will melt before you!

Plus, with Chill of Death and/or Path of Corruption, if they convert Fury or Stability into Blind and Fear…you also get more chill + vuln, plus extra damage based on each boon removed with Spinal Shivers!

So. Much. Synergy. And I’m not even taking the minor traits into consideration!
I love it! I can’t wait for Reaper! I already got my Grenth runes ready!

Happyfool.8951:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

based on the speed of attacks it’s basically like he’s permanently chilled, so seems fair.

since thieves’ weapon skills have no cooldown, how about chill reducing their initiative regen?

I don’t know why they didn’t do this to begin with. Kind of an oversight.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

No thanks. HS as a trap is far better. HS is a core skill for Ranger.

I actually quite agree. And I considered the trap HS thing too, even though it doesn’t really fit. HS makes even more sense as a Consecration since it essentially already is one.

What ANet has shown us thus far however, is that they’re not afraid to completely change the way certain skills work. Look at the Tomes on Guardian for an example of that. One is being turned into a signet while the other is a shout. And yet they’ve already promised a return of tomes in a later expansion.

And while I’d miss Healing Spring as a core skill, there’s no telling that a replacement skill would be just as good if not better. Probably not, but hey…

Sebrent.3625:

ThanatosAngel, that is a good idea where Healing Spring is a Consecration, but I don’t think that is going to happen if you look at how they are doing each Elite Specialization

• You can only use the new skill type if you take the elite specialization
• Healing Spring is a base heal not tied to an elite specialization

So, unless they are going to give us a new heal to replace healing spring with as one of our base heals, I doubt healing spring will have the same skill type as whatever our new skills are going to be.

That’s what I’m saying. Have Healing Spring replaced with a new heal skill, and then Healing Spring is added again later as a part of the Druid, as a Consecration.

I’m with those who think Druids will get Consecrations. As a matter of fact, I’ll take it even further and suggest that Healing Spring might even get re-branded as a Druid’s Consecration healing skill.

Which leads me to my next point: Healing Spring could get replaced entirely as a Core skill with something else, maybe a new healing signet.

A bit of a stretch, but it could happen.

Hey Joe! I literally just finished watching your Evolve review! (Hoping you’ll do a review for The Order: 1886, but that’s another matter…)

In April 2014, a feature patch was released that bumped trait unlocking from level 11 to level 30 and forced players to unlock individual traits by doing tedious tasks around the world, or alternatively forced us to fork over gold and skill points in order to unlock them without lifting a finger, which was far too expensive.
Since then, there has been a huge outcry about the changes they’ve made to the trait system which worked just fine before, with a huge thread that just got bigger and bigger over the months that followed, asking about potential changes to the trait unlocking system. We’ve gotten very little in return besides “we’re working on it.” Maybe if you asked in person, they’ll actually give a concrete response on that issue. Trait unlocking as it stands is has players waiting too long to get to the meat and potatoes of character building, and using skill points as currency is also toxic to new players just starting out with a small pool of them when they absolutely need a trait.

And of course, ask about new dungeon/raid content since they’ve been vague on that too.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

Thank you Colin, for finally telling us that something will be done to fix this system. However, there are few more issues regarding the current traits system that I feel for me personally (and a few others, given how this thread started) is the bigger issue than trait unlocking:

My biggest issue was having to level up to 30 in order to start using traits, then waiting every six levels to gain a new trait point. Even on grandfathered characters, this can be very grating. I still remember that terrible sinking feeling I got when I first logged on back on April 15th and found that my alts either lost a large amount of trait points in the process, or were locked out entirely from using traits at all. It makes the leveling process feel slower when playing a sub-level 80 character, and I know I relied on traits heavily when leveling my engineer and thief.

A solution to this matter that I and many others have put forward in this thread is to have traits become available at level 15 and gain a new trait point every five levels, with Master traits unlocking at 40 and Grandmaster traits at 60. This is much closer to how traits progressed before the April update, and it feels more natural than gaining a point every six levels, then suddenly two points after level 66. Multiples of five is just better and cleaner in my opinion—it makes it easier to determine when you’ll next earn a trait point.

Now, I obviously don’t know what you have planned in mind, and you could very well have decided all this already, but I just want to point out that this could still be an issue going forward if not changed as well.

Also another concern: will we need to wait until HOT’s release before changes are implemented? We’ve already been waiting so long; it would be a huge disappointment to have to wait even longer before something concrete is done. And the longer you wait, the more gold and skill points players will waste on unlocking traits that may become free when the new expansion releases. Wouldn’t it be more fair to see this update come well in advance of HOT?

Once again, thank you for addressing our concerns, Colin!

My personal guess is that Mesmer will get not only Shield but also another main hand weapon as well, because as already said, only two new weapon skills is rather lame. My best guess would be a MH Pistol, so you can also finally duel wield two pistols.

Revenants are obviously “Heavy Armor Ritualists” in terms of lore more than gameplay. Their profession is based around channeling the spirits of the dead in the same way that Ritualists did in GW1.

They would only be like Dervish if they had some sort of enchantment removal mechanic. So far, it’s not looking like they do (I hope they do).

Any chance you could redesign the forums as well? I’ve been waiting for avatars forever…

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

Reposting my idea from September. I’d like to add that if traits were purchased with karma instead of gold+skill points, that would be so much better. And trait acquisition should be entirely done soloable.

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

JonPeters.5630:

Trait Tier level increase. We made this change because despite what the more hardcore players like myself want, most players need to be introduced to systems more slowly so that they don’t get lost. Every time we overwhelm new players that is an opportunity for them to stop playing the game. Every time that happens it becomes harder and harder for new players to develop into longtime players. Without more longtime players it becomes hard for you and your current guilds to meet and find people to replace those who inevitably will be pulled away by real life from time to time.

Level 30 is just too slow. You run the risk of boring new players who struggle to get to level 30 or 35 just to start unlocking traits. That in itself will stop new players from playing the game. What you had before couldn’t have possibly been any worse. As many have said in this thread, you can readjust the points down to start at level 15 and still have the same system as before.

Maybe we should give new players more credit when it comes to learning a new game. After all, we “veterans” managed to learn just fine in two years.

Since the devs are now finally starting to look at this thread, and they clearly haven’t planned on changing the trait system yet, I’ve decided to quote my old post about my proposed ideas:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Hey everyone, I’ve been thinking a lot about the new trait changes and reading a lot of opinions, and that inspired me to come up with what I believe is a better solution. If you like what you read, spread the word and hopefully maybe ArenaNet will make some changes like these. Here goes:

For starters, players should unlock traits at level 15, and gain one trait point every five levels until level 80. Master tier once again unlocks at 40, and Grandmaster at 60. This is how it worked before the patch, only each point will still be worth five, and new players don’t have to wait to level 30 just to use traits. It’s a win-win.

Traits are still locked and can still be unlocked by purchasing guides, but acquisition out in the field should be different. Players will be able to complete specially-marked Trait Challenges for trait guides much like they can complete Skill Challenges for skill points.

Trait Challenges could be marked on the map as either empty or filled hexagons (similar to hearts), and are based on the type of profession you play: Soldier, Adventurer, or Scholar.
Warriors and Guardians will have to display their strength by dueling a NPC to gain a new trait.
Rangers, Thieves, and Engineers stretch their adventuring muscles by going off road and deep into caves and crevices to reach special chests containing their trait guides.
And since Elementalists, Mesmers, and Necromancers like to use their brains in battle, they have to complete mind puzzles or quizzes in order to win their traits.
We already more or less do these things for skill challenges, but they can be slightly harder and more specific to profession type.

Additionally, if your profession doesn’t match up with that specific challenge, then it does not show up on the map and it cannot be activated. For example, a Soldier or Scholar would not be able to see a hexagon on the map for an Adventurer challenge, and if they manage to reach the chest, will not be able to open it. Similarly, a Scholar or Adventurer will not be able to pick fights with Soldier challengers, though if the fight is in session, they can at least give aid.

Adept challenges could be found on maps between the levels of 15-40, Master challenges on maps level 40-60, and Grandmaster challenges on maps level 60-80.

Oh, and Trait Challenges should not count towards map completion.

Thoughts?

Another idea that I will add is that they could make Trait Challenges work something like paths in WildStar. Adventurers could have challenges similar to Explorers; Soldiers would have challenges like…Soldiers; and Scholars would match up with Scientists.

This might be too much work for them to implement, but I still think that the general idea could work very well. It’s still better than what we have now.

Traveller.7496:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.

I’ll give you my bullet points:

- Revert the trait system so it once again starts at level 10. One trait point every five levels
- Scrap the trait acquisition system EXCEPT for Grandmaster traits. Those should be hard to get. If you can’t scrap it completely on Adept and Master traits, at least tone down the difficulty on those tiers.

The current system leads to a lack of experimentation and fun where people will only cherry-pick the traits they absolutely want to use and forget about the rest. This is probably what you were not going for.

A good and simple suggestion, though level 15 makes better sense than 10.

So I’m certain at this point that ANet is flat-out ignoring the problems with traits now. I see devs posting in other threads while this one is still around, waiting for any kind of input, at least some confirmation that they know that there are problems with the new system and that they mean to correct them.

All of Elona and Cantha.

Vayne.8563:

BourbonDingo.6187:

So, I’ve just read over the requirements for unlocking everything. I like the idea behind this change, but the execution is… well… terrible.

You can no longer ‘choose how you play’, as you are given a roadmap of things to accomplish that are so specific that Anet may as well have just set up invisible walls to keep us from going off the path.

Seriously, I was looking forward to seeing how the new system worked (even deleted one of my lowbies to experience the new system), and now I’m unsure if I even want to keep playing anything besides my previous 80’s.

Now, I’m done with complaints. I have one suggestion that I believe could fix most peoples problems with this system.

Make the requirements more general.

I’m okay with asking people to finish a leg of their personal quest. But, how about instead of telling us a specific area to 100% explore… You just tell us to 100% explore ANY area other than the racial cities? Maybe instead of “take specific point in WvW”, just make an adept unlock “take A point in WvW”.

That’s all I got. If something isn’t done to these requirements, I don’t think I’m playing any more alts… more importantly, though… I don’t think I could recommend this game to new players.

Either make the requirements more general, or make it so that you get a choice of events to unlock specific traits. No one really should be forced into WvW to unlock a trait. It’s sort of silly. No one should have to run a dungeon.

For me it doesn’t matter, because I play all content in the game, and I’m happy to do pretty much anything, but I think this will throw a lot of people off who have a narrower comfort zone.

No one should have to do map completion for a single trait, something that requires a lot of tasks to be done over an extended period of time. For a single trait that might not even be useful. That’s one of the things that makes me wonder about just how much thought was put into this system.

hannah mee.7925:

You can buy the trait too, just visit a mesmer trainer.

If you cba to do Personal Story, map completion or events to get your traits – and you’re too cheap to buy them – well, sucks for you. Personally, I think it just weeds out the people who want a handout from the people who actually care to build their characters.

I’m guessing you were one of those who were grandfathered in?

It would be great if we could get a Wizard’s Tower dungeon in Kessex Hills. I would have expected it to come already by now within the last two years.

Holy crap, I was just thinking that this should make a come back! Yes please!

Only ANet can save this game. But they need to listen to us to do that.

Snowmoon.1758:

Kohlteth.3715:

Single biggest pita in the game is lack of P2P trading, having to mail items is like WHAT ?

ikr. 2 years already and GW2 still doesn’t have p2p trading.
makes u really wonder what are their priorities for the game.

Two years and we don’t even have something as simple as a first-person view. Not all that important compared to a lot of things, I know, but two years ago I assumed we’d have at least that by now..

I really don’t get why ANet is so quiet on this matter. I think most of us agree that traits are in a bad place right now and need to be returned back to the way they were. If it’s not broken, don’t fix it, right? Well they smashed the thing apart then taped the broken pieces together.

I’m bumping this thread because I want to know what people think about these ideas.

I’m going to copy/paste my suggestions from this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Trait-Challenges/

Hey everyone, I’ve been thinking a lot about the new trait changes and reading a lot of opinions, and that inspired me to come up with what I believe is a better solution. If you like what you read, spread the word and hopefully maybe ArenaNet will make some changes like these. Here goes:

For starters, players should unlock traits at level 15, and gain one trait point every five levels until level 80. Master tier once again unlocks at 40, and Grandmaster at 60. This is how it worked before the patch, only each point will still be worth five, and new players don’t have to wait to level 30 just to use traits. It’s a win-win.

Traits are still locked and can still be unlocked by purchasing guides, but acquisition out in the field should be different. Players will be able to complete specially-marked Trait Challenges for trait guides much like they can complete Skill Challenges for skill points.

Trait Challenges could be marked on the map as either empty or filled hexagons (similar to hearts), and are based on the type of profession you play: Soldier, Adventurer, or Scholar.
Warriors and Guardians will have to display their strength by dueling a NPC to gain a new trait.
Rangers, Thieves, and Engineers stretch their adventuring muscles by going off road and deep into caves and crevices to reach special chests containing their trait guides.
And since Elementalists, Mesmers, and Necromancers like to use their brains in battle, they have to complete mind puzzles or quizzes in order to win their traits.
We already more or less do these things for skill challenges, but they can be slightly harder and more specific to profession type.

Additionally, if your profession doesn’t match up with that specific challenge, then it does not show up on the map and it cannot be activated. For example, a Soldier or Scholar would not be able to see a hexagon on the map for an Adventurer challenge, and if they manage to reach the chest, will not be able to open it. Similarly, a Scholar or Adventurer will not be able to pick fights with Soldier challengers, though if the fight is in session, they can at least give aid.

Adept challenges could be found on maps between the levels of 15-40, Master challenges on maps level 40-60, and Grandmaster challenges on maps level 60-80.

Oh, and Trait Challenges should not count towards map completion.

Thoughts?

Yeah, that makes sense. The idea was to give each of them a task that best fits their respective “skill,” like fighting, exploring, or studying.

Hey everyone, I’ve been thinking a lot about the new trait changes and reading a lot of opinions, and that inspired me to come up with what I believe is a better solution. If you like what you read, spread the word and hopefully maybe ArenaNet will make some changes like these. Here goes:

For starters, players should unlock traits at level 15, and gain one trait point every five levels until level 80. Master tier once again unlocks at 40, and Grandmaster at 60. This is how it worked before the patch, only each point will still be worth five, and new players don’t have to wait to level 30 just to use traits. It’s a win-win.

Traits are still locked and can still be unlocked by purchasing guides, but acquisition out in the field should be different. Players will be able to complete specially-marked Trait Challenges for trait guides much like they can complete Skill Challenges for skill points.

Trait Challenges could be marked on the map as either empty or filled hexagons (similar to hearts), and are based on the type of profession you play: Soldier, Adventurer, or Scholar.
Warriors and Guardians will have to display their strength by dueling a NPC to gain a new trait.
Rangers, Thieves, and Engineers stretch their adventuring muscles by going off road and deep into caves and crevices to reach special chests containing their trait guides.
And since Elementalists, Mesmers, and Necromancers like to use their brains in battle, they have to complete mind puzzles or quizzes in order to win their traits.
We already more or less do these things for skill challenges, but they can be slightly harder and more specific to profession type.

Additionally, if your profession doesn’t match up with that specific challenge, then it does not show up on the map and it cannot be activated. For example, a Soldier or Scholar would not be able to see a hexagon on the map for an Adventurer challenge, and if they manage to reach the chest, will not be able to open it. Similarly, a Scholar or Adventurer will not be able to pick fights with Soldier challengers, though if the fight is in session, they can at least give aid.

Adept challenges could be found on maps between the levels of 15-40, Master challenges on maps level 40-60, and Grandmaster challenges on maps level 60-80.

Oh, and Trait Challenges should not count towards map completion.

Thoughts?

I think Anet should reduce the required level for traits to 15 and allow us to earn a point every five levels instead. I can’t imagine trying to level up my ele and mesmer without access to traits, and now I’ve put them aside until things change.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/They-should-make-gadgets-a-form-of-signet

Please Anet. I miss the old login with a fury that burns hotter than a thousand suns.

It’s far more likely to see a profession change, and those aren’t happening anytime soon.

I think it really should be started at level 15, then get one point every five levels until 80. Master and Grandmaster unlock at 40 and 60, same as usual. I’m not sure what ANet’s reasoning is for not going this route, but I’d sure like to hear it.

Anet sure do love their warriors, eh?

Wouldn’t it have been better for Reanimator to be merged with Minion Mastery instead? Merging into Death Nova just seems…awkward. Still, at least they’re finally doing something about it.

Starting at level 15 and getting a point every five levels makes more sense to me.

Before the game came out, I used to celebrate the idea of no “holy trinity.” Now, I don’t see how it could be all that bad compared to everyone running full zerker and DPSing their way through all the content. At least it would be more fun than that.

Warrior: MH Pistol and OH Dagger
Guardian: Longbow
Ranger: Staff
Thief: MH Mace and OH Sword
Engineer: Hammer
Elementalist: Greatsword
Necromancer: MH Sword and OH Torch
Mesmer: Shortbow

Yvette Silvermane
Borlis Pass
PvE

DarksunG.9537:

Ok I Did It.2854:

Well that was unexpected, only a matter of time before the haters get on, good job anet, good job indeed, kinda interested to see where this is going now, hopefully to an entirely new part of the game word.

Why do people have to blindly love this content? Why is it wrong for some people to recognize how bad the story is? Why can’t they point out why it’s bad in the hopes that it doesn’t happen again? I loved the story in GW1. GW2 (especially LS) has been a train wreck.
Have to agree with bokkieskitten. The “Kas & Jory story” was hardly even a story. It was a collection of flirting, shoehorned sexual innuendo, token “so much emotion” exposition & petnames.. There is nothing to actual relationship that merits praise. I don’t see why people are “blown away” by it.

Still a better love story than Twilight.

For me, personally, based on ease of play, survivability, and general fun:

Necro (easiest)
Ranger
Guardian
Engineer
Warrior
Elementalist
Mesmer
Thief (hardest)

For everyone who says they will leave or quit the game when Anet raises the level cap…you might as well check out now because it’s going to happen eventually.

Unless they’ve changed their minds (and I doubt that), they’ve said before the game was released that the level cap will be raised at some point in the future. I can tell a lot of you are old GW1 players where the cap was fixed at 20, but that game wasn’t even a MMO, nor was it trying to be. It’s pretty much MMO standard to raise the level cap per expansion.

They will probably raise it by 5 levels every so often until we hit at least level 100.

I’m still waiting for more hoods.

I just want to point out that these “free” boosters aren’t exactly free if you got them through an achievement reward that requires a point threshold to unlock.

1. Necromancer
2. Ranger
3. Engineer

Another great feature would be the ability to see which members in a guild are contributing the most influence overall, and how much time they’ve spent representing your guild. I’m no guild leader, but I think those might be useful features to have.

I think profession change is far more likely than race change. Have one version allow you to select a new profession within your armor class, and another “extreme profession change” to allow you to select any new profession at the cost of more gems, but it removes all your armor in the process.

I’m a black guy, and of the eight characters I have, seven are female and one is a dark-skinned male with an afro.

I wish there were more “African-inspired” faces though like there was in Nightfall.