Showing Posts For Thanos.2970:
…and if you play vs good players, every seems to forget that EVERY good player will have CC breakers and will be able to EASILY keep that 300+ distance needed to completely shot down an D/D ele -.- it gets even easier in team setting.
Are you willing to prove that by playing another class against a good ele?
The simple fact the eles feel the need to offer help that is obviously not needed vs other classes proves that something ist wrong. I saw the same thing in the mesmer and thief forums before both classes were heavily nerfed.
How about this:
If it is so easy to beat a DD, you could simply offer to duel a DD ele with an other class and show us how easy it is. Tips like: Immobilize the ride the lightning and interrupt the heal are nice in theory but there are just to many setups that do not have those abilites. In WvW a good DD ele is the most overpowered class I can imagine: Decent damage, good condition removal, very good mitigation, probably the best heals out of any class and the option to always run if things go bad. One of my friends plays a DD ele and frequently attacks groups of 2 and 3 players and either wins, or if they are good at least escapes without a problem. He says that he does not remember the last time he lost a 1vs1.
Could you at least name a spec and utility setup for every class that has at least a chance to kill a good DD ele (this should include tools to prevent thre ele from running if things go bad)? My main is a necro and in my usual condition setup with staff/scepter-dagger there is no way in hell I can beat a decent ele because they have just to much condtion removal. I usually just do not even try to stay and fight any more and just try to escape to the next friendly keep, because even if he is bad and I actually manage to get him in trouble he will just run and there is nothing I can do about it.
I know what culling is, but if you wait till you reapear till you attack you can just autoattack, CnD and be gone again without any debuff that prevents you from stealthing for 3 seconds. Even without any culling it would be incredibly hard to retaliate. Even more so if there are NPCs close that might prevent you from immediately targetting the thief.
I will test this with my thief tonight.
I am pretty sure the thief we fought did not use the culling issue but just waited for the stealth to run out, used the auto attack when ever his endurance was not full so he could stealth immediatly after shooting without any delay. If his endurance was full he would attack from stealth, stack 5 bleeds, dodge, doge, stealth again. I don´t think that fixing the culling issues will prevent this.
How can you beat this spec? Yesterday I had several encounters with a P/D thief and I just could not find a way to beat him. (He won 3vs1 several times)
Grenade Engineer with Turrets.
Staff Necromancer. (with wells.)Both Stacked Heavily on Defense, you can constantly chill/cripple/immobilize your opponents and do heavy hard-hitting AOE Damage and AOE Healing.
Your welcome, you should be impossible to kill instantly if your standing ontop of eachother using marks, as if you use a fear mark ontop of you the thief who backstabs you instantly gets feared, and you can hear the noise when this happens, this means spam AOEs away, you know they will hit when your marks disapear.
After a short period (rendering issues, after they will get fixed.) you should see two-three thieves downed, they are useless now, so just finish them off.
You did read that we were moving? If your strategy is to just stay in one spot all day we can as well stay in the border keep.
If you start that off from stealth, you’ll apply the venom, CnD, and use Steal mid-cast. At that point, they’ve broken stealth and they now have the Revealed debuff (no stealth for 3s), so they can’t Backstab. You’ll have taken at most 10k damage, and that’s assuming you’re a glass cannon.
As far as I know you only get the revealed debuff if you attack from stealth. Possibly they moved in range and just waited for the stealth to expire to avoid the debuff and started the attack the second stealth dropped. Does this work?
Listen, I play a burst p/p – sb thief and with 1980 armor (no toughness or anything, complete glass cannon) I take no more than 8k from backstab. Also running around like a headless chicken with those classes is asking to get killed, thieves aren’t good at the forts since they have bad range so you are taking them on in their preferred field.
http://i.imgur.com/vPegl.png
I’ve taken way more damage from warriors, 12k+ kill shot yesterday for example.
Actually I took less then 8K from the backstab (7 and something). But steal also did over 4K. This means you die instantly, it simply does not matter if you “run around like a chicken” or run around like a pro. You just die without ever seeing the attacker. A warrior going to their knees and aiming at you is something totally different (though the burst might be a little high here, too).
Why are you wandering around with two of the worst roaming classes expecting to win fights against strong roaming classes?
Do you think we would have done better with other classes? How do you defend vs instant death?
We often run as a team and we usually do pretty good in small scale fights but in this case there simply was no fight.
From the sound of it you got bursted by 2 backstab thieves, you will die if any 2 glass cannons from almost any class concentrate a burst on you, but as a necro you do have some some counters, Reapers mark on the staff, place it on the area you and the engineer are on and let them come to you, the fear will break up nicely the thieves combo, once the combo has failed pick one of the thieves and both you and the engineer concentrate in killing him, at all cost prevent him from use hide in shadows(can be done with the fear from death shroud) get an immobilize(net shot from the engi’s rifle helps here) on him also from you saying the 20% speed bonus I doubt the thieves have any condition removal utility so immobilize and proceed to kill and if they use shadow refuge just aoe it.
If it had been any other 2 glass cannons I could have fought back in one way or an other. The problem in this case is, that you are dead before you know the fight has started. I guess they stood behind a rock or a corner and used camera movement to scout ahead and dropped shadow refuge as soon as they saw us just to get a long enaugh stealth to close in on us. We never saw them coming (and I constantly move the camera in WvW). As soon as they hit 900 distance one of us is dead. You have no chance to know they are there and when they will attack. There simply is no reaction time. I can not drop a mark before an attack if I do not know the attack is comming.
My sugestion is to ask other necro’s ( condition necro’s ) how they destroy thieves.
Cause i can assure you is your fault you lose vs thieves as necro
So it is my fault they I die the first second of the fight against a high damage assist? Well please tell me what I (or any class) can do against an assist from stealth that instant kills you? One vs one is a different matter. At least I can fight back and condition necros are even one of the stronger classes vs thieves (unless they spec for condition removal on stealth then you have absolutely no chance).
not sure how you can deal , because i don’t know many about necro and engeniers
however yesterday an condition necro chased 2 thieves all the time.
i tryed fight vs him , 1 time i died stealthed from conditions , 1 time he intrerupt my stealth arround 5 times in row with his perma fear ability’s
The fear a thieve can steal from a necro is as long as all necro fears (including the downed state fear) put together. Necros only have 2 fears (before downed state) and both last 1 second. I guess the rest of your story as as true as the 5 times perma fear part…
If they get the jump on you you won’t have much of a chance.
The key is to jump them….while avoid being jumped yourself. If you can catch them off guard, preferably with CC/stuns…then it should be a pretty easy win.
We caught them once while they killed a lone guardian. They did not try to fight just stealthed and ran. As we could see them again they were already out of range. We chased them for a while but there is no way we could catch them with 25% runspeed +shortbow.
About 3 minutes later they found us again and instant killed me and killed the engineer with the 6 seconds of fear they stole from me.
Point is :
We get the jump: They escape
They get the jump: We die without a chance to fight backBalanced?
In WvW main objective is to take and hold keeps. As a thief the two players are pretty much useless for their team. Now you and Eng would be able to hit people and siege inside keep with AoE and grenades while two thieves shoot a little cluster bomb every 3secs. Is that balanced? WvW is not going to be balanced in every situation.
Or they could just stealth in range, use scorpion wire and pull the defenders from the keep one by on, probaly killing way more people this way then anyone using AEs that you can simply move out of.
And I do not see this as a WvW problem only. How do you counter it in sPvP?
If they get the jump on you you won’t have much of a chance.
The key is to jump them….while avoid being jumped yourself. If you can catch them off guard, preferably with CC/stuns…then it should be a pretty easy win.
We caught them once while they killed a lone guardian. They did not try to fight just stealthed and ran. As we could see them again they were already out of range. We chased them for a while but there is no way we could catch them with 25% runspeed +shortbow.
About 3 minutes later they found us again and instant killed me and killed the engineer with the 6 seconds of fear they stole from me.
Point is :
We get the jump: They escape
They get the jump: We die without a chance to fight back
Balanced?
Is there a reason why there are no embrasures in keeps? It is actually much easier for attackers to hit defenders on the walls with AE spells, then it is for the defnders to hit attackers that are standing close to the wall.
In my opinion embrasures should be added to the walls.
Dodge steal and use your cc abilities. And also, was that in sPVP?
How do you dodge an instant ability that can be executed from stealth?
No it was in WvW, both of us level 80 in full excotics so the result would have been the same in sPVP. We did not even see them before the first attack. I guess they used shadow refuge to stealth long enaugh to get in range but I am not sure about that.
Yesterday me (necro ) and a friend of mine (engineer) had several “fights” vs. two backstab thieves. The fight allway started the same way: steal/steal backstab/backtab on one of us ~22K damge (i use a toughness setup and those are the numbers I was hit with) and a 2vs 1 fight wihich usually ended 5 seconds later.
How do you counter the instant death 2 thieves can deliver from 900 range?
As long as other classe do need LoS to cast the mesmer should, too. I guess it is just an other bug and hope it will get fixed before 2013.
all classes are not the same and all have trade offs. Just because The Ele can AoE better than anyone or heal for that matter, or a thief/necro ele or well like anyone can run faster than a Mesmer doesn’t make them bugged.
Unless a Dev states that this is intended I do consider it a bug. The fact that not even all mesmer pets behave like this makes it even more obvious.
As long as other classe do need LoS to cast the mesmer should, too. I guess it is just an other bug and hope it will get fixed before 2013.
You have to do DIRECT DAMAGE. I can out dps ANY class in dungeons, i can take down any class in wvw and pvp.
Am pretty sure this is a troll post but anyways.
… I am sure you can… as long as the player is AFK.
Just to prove you wrong:
How do you outdamage a dagger necro? (and Dagger Necros do far from the best dps)
I am not sure if you are serious but in PVE necros are simply better then mesmers. I am not sure if you are trolling and want to generate some mesmer hate, but PVE we can not complain. A condition necro is an AOE beast in PVE and I even doubt that a mesmer can rival the single target DPS of a necro because there are nearly no mobs that remove conditions. PVP is a different story though because of broken power builds and lots of condition removers.
If you want to see “real damage” stack bleeds and use epidemic. There is no way a mesmer can rival this.
Every point of advantage an already dominating team gets is a point to much. Just switch the outmanned and the orb bonus and you have a better solution.
For me it is a must have feature in PvP. You are easily twice as fast with the feature active. This is especially import for your staff marks because I want to place them as fast as possible an then switch the weapon. You can still place the ground targets very precisely with some training.
I actually do not try to finsh mesmer or rogues anymore. I cust keep attacking them and stack bleeds (necro here). By the time they realise that I am not going to stomp them and they start using the invisiblity to stop me from attacking them I can usually move on because they are low enaugh and have enaugh bleeds on them to make sure they die.
In group fights it is a different story though cause they can almost always be rezzed before you can finish them.
@Tpoic
I think any class with decent ranged AE abilities can have a huge impact on sieges and zerg fights. I personally think Eles, Necros, Rangers and Engineers are all pretty good in WvW. I usually run with 2 guildies (Ele, Engineer and me as Necro) and the three of us can keep smaller zergs from capping a tower for quite a while.
I disagree, already on my server certain guilds are asking players to leave so their guildies can get in.
Do pepople actually leave in those cases?
50 good, organised players probably would do better with the buff, than 100 non-guildies
This will always be true with on without orbs. So I do not see the point here.
The orbs are a big incentive at present… I’m not sure anyone would care too (or as) much about them if they just gave a little extra xp/karma.
They would be as use(less)ful as the outmanned bonus is now… and this is the problem. Outmanned should be a strong buff cause being outmanned is a strong disadvantage.
Is it just me or does anyone else see a problem with the way the orb bonus works?
If one realm that is dominating the other for whatever reason it is just a matter of time till they have all 3 orbs. Now the realm that is dominating gets 150 to all stats and 15% to HP as a bonus which makes sure that if there are for once even conditions in a fight the dominating team will win because of the buff.
As a result a lot of people in the loosing team will just quit WvW which results in the loosing teams being even more outnumbered then before and loosign even worse.
As a compensation the outnumbered team gets a buff to EXP and karma for fights they win… well here ist the problem: The other team outnumbers you and is buffed by the orbs so that you will not win the fights. As a result you do not get any bonus at all.
Am I the only one considering this as a problem?
In my opinion the buffs neeed to be switched so that the outnumbered teams get a stats buff and the dominating team an EXP and Karma Bonus.