Guild Wars 2

Play your own way and mind your own business. Your success is not contingent on the failure or success of others. It is an MMO DESIGNED for cooperative play. If you don’t desire to cooperate to help others, then don’t, but don’t try to impose your style of play on others. By the way, do you rez other players?

A lot of us are getting VERY fed up with all the hackers and exploiters in the game, and it doesn help that even though an entire guild has reported a player for exploiting in the game, a month later the reported player is still around using the same exploit.

This player is getting annoyed too, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Which-kind-of-zoom-is-intended

and they, and all of us have every right to be. These exploits have been around since launch and yet nothing has been done about them. Any thread created in WvW forum is infracted telling people to email the report in; but what good is that if there are still hacks around from the launch of the game?!

This reflect very badly on Anet, what measured are you taking to remove these hacks, exploits and the players who abuse them? Because we are not seeing any progress, which has led to many to think if t’s been in the game so long it’s a legitimate tool or feature to use.
The above linked thread, the mod states “any other tool or program that allows you to zoom further back, hence providing you with an advantage over other players, is not allowed and considered an exploit.” So what is to be done about multi-monitor setups and the zoom hacks?!

So I suggest another sub-forum be opened titles Exploits and Hacks, because even ingame we dont have an option to report for hacking or exploiting! We want a fair game, you want a fair game, because if hackers can get away with it other players will just leave the game, which isnt what you want.

And by infracting people for reporting hacks and glitches, even to inform the community about it so they know to look out for it, to us that looks like Anet is covering for the hackers. Infracting those posts will not do anything but alienate your players.

So, a group of us did a little test. We ran the Molten dungeon with and without a full party of MF gear. Bottom line, took use a little less than 3 minutes longer using the same toons and earned us on average about 1g-1.5g gold more for that extra 3 minutes. Do with that what you will.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

My Dead Characters.9517:

define offensive potential in your own words please

Statistical capability for outputting damage. For instance, Explorer’s compared to Berserker’s, Explorer’s is identical except that its power is lower (less damage) and it doesn’t give crit damage (less damage). Compared to Berserker’s your offensive potential is worse, and it is not traded off for anything else that could conceivably be of use in a fight (like, say, Soldier’s armor trades a lot of damage potential for survivability, and alive players are more useful than dead ones). A person in Explorer’s would be objectively more capable in combat if they took Berserker’s or Rampager’s (even with no damaging conditions at all, since Rampager’s also has better Power) (I leave out mention of Knight’s because due to aggro mechanics higher Toughness may be a penalty in some cases). A person in Traveler’s gear would be objectively better with Rampager’s (more damage output) or Carrion (more survivability). A person in Wayfarer’s would be objectively better in Soldier’s (more damage). The reason these are all better is because they are the exact same thing, except that they have a combat stat instead of a non-combat stat.

When you invite me to your party, you invite ME, not my gear. You accept my contribution to the party, whatever I decide to bring. You accept that me being there is going to help, regardless of my gear.

You have no business judging my “statistical capability”, because it’s not your kittening business. I’m there, I’m helping, how much doesn’t matter.

You may run your groups differently, but that doesn’t make your approach desirable to the entire GW2 playerbase. Again, people like loot, and as long as mobs drop dead sometime this century, it’s all good.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a trinity game, so really everyone IS out for themselves. You heal yourself, buff yourself, even raise/rally yourself. You get and manage gear and traits to make yourself as efficient at what you want as you can. When a person gears for someone else, or because they are told it is the way that the group wants it, that is selfish behavior. You can easily do dungeons with either MF or non MF gear, and the only difference is a short amount of time.

When you enter a group, you aren’t entering a “contract”, this isn’t a Donald Trump show. You enter a group with one single purpose and that is to complete the dungeon (leaving out players who want to glitch through 99% of the dungeon because “it takes too long..”). You use the gear and traits you have to help the group accomplish that goal and if you use MF you are also trying to accomplish a personal goal. Having personal goals is not being selfish, it is using your time in game to enjoy the game how you want. Unless you are purposely afking every mob, or are entirely oblivious with how to conduct yourself, no one has the right to complain that your dps doesn’t measure up with their elitist’ometer. Gear in this game is only an enhancement of ones skill and direction, it is not a defining factor in figuring out if someone is selfish. Selfishness comes from literally doing everything for yourself, merely entering the dungeon with a group removes this ability. Just helping others kill bosses and mobs and finish the dungeon is a group concentrated effort.

If you want to pair up with like-minded individuals you have the option to do so, but do not expect that your style of play is the majority no matter your playstyle. People in MF gear are no more “purposely” hindering your progress than someone with bad ping. People can claim the stat argument, but stats do not make a good group, the groups skill and teamwork does.

Everyone has different goals, sometimes our goals are inside areas where groups are needed. We take on those challenges with others so that we can further our own story and progress. Simply partying with people is being group minded, unless again, you are just afking. You get drops based on doing enough damage(yourself), you get to work with others to accomplish one goal. This is the one and only purpose of dungeons, whatever else you take from that dungeon is in your own self interests. If you want a speed run, it is in your personal interest to get loot/gold on YOUR time frame. If you want to skip things you are circumventing the natural play of the dungeon and again that is YOUR personal interest. We all have some sense of selfishness, basically everything you do in game could be called selfish. But there is a difference between selfishness and personal interests. Because unlike selfishness, our personal interests can align with others. And no one has the right to belittle you or degrade you because you chose a gear set that helps you further a personal goal for yourself. As for those who want speed runs etc, you can announce it as such. If and when a real LFG tool is introduced I see this problem somewhat going away. Because people will have the chance to find others whose personal interests align.

There is far too much name calling and derogatory statements in this thread at this point to even take it serious anymore. Rather than define the actual importance of teamwork which is simply working together towards a common goal, you have all gone about forcing your own personal beliefs on one another. In doing so you have lost track of the discussion on how we can work WITH people who have this gear, and have resorted to simply labeling anyone with MF gear as “bad”. I see no further point in this thread other than to argue with each other about who personal interests and prerogatives are more important than others. There is no winner there, and if you think there is you are deluded.

maddoctor.2738:

The “problem” with MF gear and when it becomes “bad” is when you using MF at the cost of better stats, as Colin himself states, they want to fix this and they SHOULD fix this, there is no arguing about it. It’s terrible design plain and simple and everyone should agree with this, fortunately the devs do.

One other thing, I only call Selfish those who deliberately choose to use MF over more useful stats, for pure personal benefit while offering less to the group, that’s pure selfishness, you put yourself above the group. It doesn’t matter how you live your personal life, and how much you help your friends and guildies, for those randoms you group with, while using full MF gear, you are being selfish at them, there is no denying this.

Maybe I should’ve made that distinction to avoid confusion… The Full Explorer with Noble Runes IS Selfish, the one using the “all stat” gear is not, he is using all the stats for the benefit of his build, MF is an added bonus, Explorer users aren’t using the extra stat at all, to benefit the team, only for personal gain so they are being selfish.

Finally, I regularly see posted Berserker as the alternative to Explorer, but I must add that Cavalier, Valkyrie, Rampager and other stat combinations offer better DAMAGE (while also offering other stats like Toughness/Vitality/Condition Damage/Healing) than Explorer. It’s not an issue of “run Berserker instead of Explorer”, that’s false. Many many gear combinations are far superior to Explorer in terms of DPS while also offering more than just damage.

So, this is your “solution” ATM (which is what I don’t agree with, and never will):

-Instead of just not partying up with people that use MF gear, blaming their moral character/making them feel “guilty” about their gear choice, as if there was another way around that conundrum. It inconveniences you, and makes you feel bad-dare I say envious?-if they get better drops than you do, because in your eyes, you deserve the better drops since you theoretically are “contributing more” to the group (in quotes because ultimate contribution depends on actual playstyle rather than gear, but that’s another angle to the story.)

I offer a more peaceful solution, while they go about fixing this issue-do not care, and just party with people that think the way you do.

Your opinion of why it is “selfish” to employ this gear has no bearing on the reality that people need not be necessarily selfish in order to use an Exotic full MF set. When I crafted my Explorer’s full set for my Guardian I wasn’t thinking “gwahahahahah, I am going to troll the efficiency fiends with this! I’ll get better loot while they carry me through Dungeons, hahahah” but more, “Nice, now I can get better drops from the zombies at Orr, though I certainly do hate playing with this set vs what I am used to!” The reason I do not use it on Dungeons is simple-I hated that, as a Guardian, I lost either too much armor or healing power as a result. Hard to get used to the way it impacts my playstyle, so I prefer to play with better stats. Orr is fine, but even there I cannot afford too many mistakes if I am farming 6+ mobs at a time (normal gear, ten+ mobs are not that hard at all with Guardian). Since I do use Wayfarer’s Trinkets with Opal Jewels, it’s not as glassy as Full Explorer’s, but it still is inconvenient gameplay due to somewhat massive stat loss. And THAT is the problem with MF gear, not whether it’s moral or immoral to use them-the moral issue is used as justification to hate how the system works, but isn’t really “true” nor needed.

In short: you do not need to justify your gear choices and dislike of the MF system by calling those who would employ it selfish. You can just hate it, state your case (as I did above), but without putting the moral blame on people you don’t know. It is similarly not fair if I would call EVERY player that farms CoF 1 ala “zerk” an elitist with an attitude, because I know people that have healthy, non-arrogant reasons why they farm CoF 1 that way and are not elitists in the least. I would be in the wrong for judging their character (“darn elitists all of them!”) based on my bias against something I wouldn’t do myself (excluding others for my own convenience/gain) but is still allowed in-game. It is a problem with the game’s design (forced to choose better stats vs possible better drops), not people’s morals-you may as well accuse ANet for “promoting selfishness” as you would see it, rather than the players.

The above is not meant to offend, but just so you see why I deem it inappropriate to blame other people’s character for a game design problem that is none of their moral fault.

Ohoni.6057:

There’s no way to definitively tell them apart from other players, and some MFers in this thread have admitted to being deliberately deceptive about it. Would you at least be cool with them adding an icon to the game that appears on a character’s portrait when they are wearing MF gear so that it’s impossible to lie about it?

I am sorry, I disagree with mostly everything regarding necessary “selfishness” in the motives behind using MF gear, and I don’t think we’ll convince each other seeing as we come from a different mindset, so I’ll just agree to disagree.

I would have mixed feelings about MF characters being singled-out, because it would be a sort of gear-check mechanism for many, “to cull the inefficient”. People should just be honest (which often they are not, sadly.) I understand how many people can “cheat” the current system by switching armors, but wouldn’t putting an icon on them feel as if MF users were being stigmatized? I would have no problem if I trusted humans more, but am aware that having players with MF gear “tagged” may be used in the community as a sort of dunce-hat-and I know that not every MF user is a dunce (or “selfish”, what have you.)

(I wonder if the “switch and bait” strategy among MF users is really common, since I myself hate having armor sets with different stats with the same skin. Does that many people switch armor on all of you, or is it the possibility that makes some be a bit paranoid about it?)

I do NOT condone armor switch and bait, BTW, of any kind. That said, I don’t like partying with people who do gear checks either, whether I meet the requirements or otherwise, based on the principles of freedom of choice. However, you are free to require pings and stuff (freedom of choice again)-just that I won’t party with you because I do not enjoy the practice. Switching armors just to spite others is not my thing, and while I do understand the angst of many while they do that stuff, I can’t agree with it because it’s dishonest and basically trolling.

My problem with saying that all MF users are selfish leeches is knowing it isn’t the truth for every single player that employs it, thus it feels like virtual bigotry to me-(“all Chinese are ____!”similar to “all MF gear users are ____!”) I cannot stand for such a thing myself, even if there are supposedly “rational” reasons behind the bigotry (in fact, the “selfishness” rationale used against it is not solid.)

If you don’t like someone using certain gear, don’t party with them. No need to judge their character based on your own gear preferences (I don’t like MF gear on my characters, ESPECIALLY on Dungeons, but feel like it’s none of my business if somebody else has no problem with it, nor do I get envious if someone else gets better drops than me with theoretically worse stats.)

MF gear has its problems (I hate having to choose between better stats that suit my build vs better theoretical drops) but don’t blame the player-blame the game’s current design, which is bound to be altered at some point given earlier developer’s response.

(On a more human side, I would hate if I have a dear friend online that does use MF gear called “selfish” JUST because he/she uses the gear-especially if I know the person is anything but. I will defend his/her right to use whatever he/she wants to, undisturbed by anti-MF gear bias. He/she may just be hungry for better drops, maybe is trying out his/her skill with the gear, etc.-in short, he/she may be doing everything BUT intentionally trying to “leech” off the group, as is usually the claim.)

Take care, I hope I did not exasperate you. I am honestly tired of writing the same stuff over and over, especially knowing that most people won’t be convinced and change their minds on the issue. Just wished there was more leniency in the community so that people felt more free to play whichever way they want without feeling under the scrutiny of certain individuals. No need to debate about stuff that we won’t ever agree on-we have our reasons to believe the way we do.

I did like how they changed the thread’s title. It used to be" Magic Find – Why it IS bad". The new title is more appropriate-it’s not that “it’s wrong” to use it, but that it has its flaws.

well, i’ve never EVER had a non positive thing to say about gw2, so this is a first for me.

i’ve been playing with my 1 guildie in our guild of 2 since launch and this news just…idunno. i’m sad/disappointed?

it’s either 3-4 months of dailies or 3 weeks of guild missions for the 3 new ascended trinkets my build requires. i know we have options, but the disparity in time investment is enormous.

Poor Anet…no matter how hard they try they can never quite get it right….i mean its actually getting pretty embarrassing now to see them flailing around and still making mistakes this huge.

This is further dividing the community and essentially “gating” content, which is never a good idea…what do we casuals do ? do we wander the wilderness waiting for a mission to kick of that we can drop in on like an unwanted party guest….picking up the table scraps of the big guilds ?

Every single person in my guild has long left the game…i dont have time to dedicate to a large guild….so im not worthy of this new content ?
I prefer to solo, running into people and helping them where i can…and for this im being punished……“play it my way”, yea, sure thing.

Ive never actually said this about any game, ever….but this game is doomed, and i suspect the only reason the servers are still up is because people have already paid for the game, it seriously has no future.

Guild of Farmers, that should be the name of this game, u need alot of influence to get the thing done, nice way to kill small guilds, good job anet u are doing it wrong

first of all, allow me to please express my overall love for your company, arenanet. OVERALL i think you guys are great, but unfortunately, you seem to miss the boat on some things.

you drew us in by promising us a game we could play “our way.” that was negated as soon as monthlies came on board — for instance, if my way of playing is being a completionist, but is not being involved in pvp, then i’m kinda sol. you “fixed” that this past month; we didn’t have pvp requirements in the monthlies. the overall response was always, “you don’t HAVE to complete … you are not REQUIRED to do this …” but the simple fact of the matter is, IF my way of play is completion, and IF my way of play does not include pvp, then i was, until this month, left high and drive by anet’s imperative that i play every aspect of the game.

i get it. you’re mighty proud of this game — rightfully so! but then we move on to guild missions, and small guilds. your notification of the guild influence requirement to engage in guild missions was met with resounding dismay, at least on facebook. rather than acknowledge and possibly listen to what folk were saying, you immediately countered with “well, really, this isn’t so hard! all you have to do is find another guild and ally yourself with them!” pundits insisted that we could also “join” and “represent” large guilds in order to partake in guild missions — how does that help my guild?

let me put this in clear perspective for you, anet. we’re a small guild of people who’ve played together across many, many games — some have been together for 10+ years. we are, in many ways, family. in fact, many of us are couples, and a few of us have grown kids who play with us. so we’re a bit selective about whom we invite to join our guild. we don’t care about huge numbers, we don’t care about “must-have-this-NAOW!” what we care about is building us, as a team. we regularly engage in activities on the weekends — dungeons, karma runs, map completion, and puzzles. we had been looking forward to the guild missions as another form of activity for us, with the eventual goals of … oh, guild halls/housing? increasing benefits offered by us, as a guild?

now, you come in with guild missions, and essentially tell us that our way of play is not consistent with the vision you have of how your game should be played. please step back a moment and think of your posted responses on facebook — you as much as said “we don’t wish to listen to why you’re upset, we only want you to work within our framework and find a way to play the game our way.”

members of my guild don’t pug dungeons — we don’t have to, and we prefer not to deal with idiots who only care about speed runs, or the-best-build-for-your-profession. we embrace each of our guildies who plays a bit “differently” because that’s how they like playing their character. we die a few times, but we learn how to make every single person’s contribution work. when we do jumping puzzles? those of us who complete them early stand, help, and support those who may take an hour or more completing them.

why? because the activity together is more important to us than the speed/facility of doing it.

you’ve created a wonderful idea, and implemented it, but you’ve done it in such a way that you punish guilds who can’t come up with the influence required, and you’ve done it in such a way that, in order to partake, we MUST play it your way.

please, at the very least, have the grace to change your marketing. stop telling me it’s “my” game. stop telling me it’s “my” story. you’re not keeping up on that, anet.