Guild Wars 2

See, to remove this from a criticising of concepts, and more to a discussion:

I don’t see the issue with time. A lot of the game’s content is about pouring days/weeks/months of work into something. Legendary Weapons take 3-4 months to craft; Legendary Armour can take between 6-12 months, depending on the type; Ascended Armour (for a casual player) can take 1-2 months to craft. Raids take around 1-2 hours to completely clear, 3 pvp daily matches takes 45 minutes (without queues/relative game match-ups), which is the average that someone has to play to stay on the ranked leaderboard. A full WvW skirmish takes 1.5-2 hours.

However, in Living World Season 3… we had 6 maps, but we didn’t see any story-driven, huge meta events. Even in the final episode, which should’ve had a Silverwastes style map as a pre-expansion event, to keep people interested until the release. A demo weekend is fine, if there’s something to go back to. And yes, Aurora is something that a select few are doing, but the average player isn’t.

It’s very easy to say that there’s a lot of content, but how much of it is actually meaningful content? I don’t personally see Legendary grinding as ‘meaningful content’, especially when they purposefully lock stat-swapping there as the only incentive, showing how shallow the content really is. Of course, people will say: “Hun, why don’t you quit if you’re complaining this much?” But really, there’s a lot of concepts that GW2 gets right, but executes poorly. And things that people have wanted for years, such as build templates, is thrown aside for another feature that hardly anyone asked for.

Now, the saving grace of Path of Fire for me will be the Bounties. But they need to prepare amazing bosses for these Bounties, otherwise, they’ll become pointless. These are just my extended thoughts.

Btw, to clear something up: I’m not saying to put every single Gem Store item in the map meta events. I’m saying that there should be a new weapon set, a new glider etc in each map. If Anet wants to make sets purely for the Gem Store, that’s their choice. But the Gem Store shouldn’t be the go-to option to get all of the new skins, on an RNG chance that you get a Claim Ticket.

Vayne.8563:

Sounds to me that your conclusion is stating your own opinion as what “people” are feeling. Well I’ve played a lot of MMOs, and I’ve heard about every one of them the same I’m bored mantra by a percentage of the playerbase.

The events work because they are tied to rewards that require you to do them. If you don’t go for any of those rewards, you’ll have less impetus to do them.

I’m working on HoT legenday weapons so I’ll need HoT currency. In fact, I also use HoT currency to lower my karma cost for obsidian shards. That means I’ll be spending a lot of time in HoT maps.

And I’m not bored with the events the way they are.

Making events more rewarding generally would do nothing but increase inflation. Sure everyone wants more rewards. But that doesn’t make more rewards necessarily good for the game.

As for the ‘claiming my opinion is a percentage of the player-base’, my opinion is fuelled by the countless people across many guilds that I’m in who regularly drop out because there’s nothing to do, outside of maybe 3-4 PvP matches a day, and a WvW hour long zerg.

If you’re not bored, that’s fine. But there’s examples in GW2 of long-lasting content, and The Silverwastes is one of those things, that’s still regularly played even now.

Abakk.9176:

I don’t get anything done because im always re-playing events and here is one that is done with any map in 1-2 days….. whut?

Never played an MMO as replayable as this one tbh. Its pure genious, plain and simple.

Sounds to me you are rather easily bored OP.

Well, no, I’m not easily bored. I’m easily bored by content that gives no replay value. The only map that sees any kind of replay value in LWS3 is Bloodstone Fen, from my experience, and maybe the leather farm in Lake Doric, but that’s just a pointless grind for gold.

Introduction

There’s a common theme with GW2’s content, that I hope will be fixed in Path of Fire, but highly doubt: The content doesn’t last long enough. It’s clear that people are left to farm a few achievements for a number score, with no real rewards for doing so. I’m bringing this up, because I care about the game, but I find myself losing interest quite a lot of the time, particularly 3-4 days after the release of a Living World patch.

In its current format, the Living World doesn’t work. It provides a 2 hour story per episode, and a map that you enjoy for 1-2 days, and then, you rarely ever go back, unless you need an achievement here and there.

Something needs to change, and I have a few suggestions, that are listed below:

Map Meta Events

The best Map Meta in the game, IMO, is The Silverwastes. It’s a huge battle against a massive threat, and everything is thrown into it, and it thematically fits the tone of Heart of Thorns. However, it also serves a greater purpose, as it feels like a self-contained story without the instances. We’re pulled away from being a Commander, and we’re just another person fighting with others against an enemy that keeps coming.

My question is: Why aren’t other Map Meta Events this well-designed? Especially for the Living World, where narrative is particularly important, we need content that matches the tone of the story. A good example is Head Of The Snake. The Map Meta is entirely forgettable, as it includes a few kill events, with no end goal. Lake Doric was meant to be a battlefield, and while the zone felt like a dark war, the Map Meta didn’t reflect the hardship, and didn’t feel challenging in any way. It’s simply: ‘Go to point X, capture it, leather farm.’

To fix Lake Doric, in hindsight, it would’ve been better to start with an attack on Seraph’s Landing, and branch out from the base camp, towards Fort Evennia, and then raze the Fort to the ground and kill a White Mantle Commander, in a self contained, challenging boss fight. I know this sounds easier said than done, but it’d be better to have 3-4 maps that are well-designed and thought-out, than 6-8 hollow maps with nothing to give after the story’s over, other than achievements with no rewards.

Rewards

The other major aspect of why content isn’t lasting is the Rewards, and there’s an easy way to fix this: Stop putting the Black Lion Weapons in the Gem Store, and add them to the Living World Maps, to be bought with map currency. Charging people 2 Black Lion Claim Tickets for a single weapon is ridiculous, and doesn’t help a game in any way. If people feel compelled to return to the maps, to play the content, and earn worthwhile rewards, people will advertise your game as being fun. Given that Anet wants word of mouth marketing/advertising, they really aren’t helping themselves by putting the rewards that belong in the maps, on the Gem Store.

Weapon skins, armour skins, glider skins, etc. all belong in the maps and away from the Gem Store. If this requires us to pay a bit more for Gem Store items, I think it wouldn’t be that bad. The fact is: You can put Black Lion Weapons on the Gem Store, but there needs to be a set for each new map, to keep the maps populated, alongside having well-made maps and meta events.

Conclusion

I’m sure that people will agree and disagree with my opinion. I’ve learnt to just accept that fact. But it’s very clear that people are getting bored of the content very quickly, leading them to not advertise the game as being fun, but instead, being very dull and repetitive. It often feels to me that there’s no love in the maps, but they’re just being made because the story needs a map. If we have 2-3 large maps, that get unlocked in stages over time, I think that’d be a better design than the current system where it feels like the map is there to serve a story backdrop and nothing more.

I’d love to hear what you all think! Let the Hunger Games begin! <3

As for the general angle I’m aiming for, I think people are generally missing the point.

In Fractals, currently, you play one build for every Fractal, with maybe a different potion if you’re trying to be optimal. With rotating instabilities, and new ones, Anet’s ‘build diversity’ preaching would make sense, as you’d have a different build for different situations, which is the point of GW2’s combat system.

Power and Condition instabilities are important, as they provide combat challenges, as it means that the player has to change their style of play. Fights might take longer, or they might be shorter, but it’s a different angle to play with than just playing one build over and over again in every Fractal.

The diversity I’m aiming for is not playing the same build in every single Fractal. However, the only way to change that is to put the difficulty in the Fractals’ enemies/instabilities, so it forces you to change your play-style, and use every aspect of your class, instead of being a ‘master of one build’.

FrostDraco.8306:

Twyn.7320:

Vinceman.4572:

No, I don’t like your suggestions at all.

The reward pattern will be overhauled anyways, look at the corresponding thread on the first page of this subforum.
Stat-swapping is relevant when patches hit. It would be very annoying to swap everytime you enter a new fractal, with pugs it would take aeons because they forget, don’t have the gear on their toon they are playing atm etc. etc.

I also don’t like to be dependent on playing my chars due to mistlock instabilities. They are annoying and add nothing challenging to the content. I’d rather have new fractals and not overhauling the system every fricking year. Too much time and development was spend to overhaul fractals over the last years. It’s enough, just rework the older ones and bring new fracs.
In my opinion they can also remove the instabilities completely because they add no fun to the fights.

1) See above for my replies to the stat-swapping stuff.

2) An overhaul of instabilities could remove the pointless ones, and add things that provide a constant challenge. Making instabilities isn’t as time-consuming as making new Fractals, and gives long-life to the content.

3) Removing the instabilities would make Fractals pointless and easy af. They’re the only bit of challenge in the instances at the moment.

You clearly have no idea how much testing needs to be done to add instabilities. Trying to say it’s ‘easy’ in any matter is just ignorant of what goes into developing a mechanic. In fact it’s actually harder to make new instabilities because you have yo watch for interactions with current ones, and current skills. It’s MUCh easier to keep a current instability and apply it to a new space, because how it works is already a given.

I didn’t say that making instabilities is easy, I said that removing them would make Fractals ‘easy af’. However, in context, making instabilities is far easier than making brand new Fractals.

Vinceman.4572:

No, I don’t like your suggestions at all.

The reward pattern will be overhauled anyways, look at the corresponding thread on the first page of this subforum.
Stat-swapping is relevant when patches hit. It would be very annoying to swap everytime you enter a new fractal, with pugs it would take aeons because they forget, don’t have the gear on their toon they are playing atm etc. etc.

I also don’t like to be dependent on playing my chars due to mistlock instabilities. They are annoying and add nothing challenging to the content. I’d rather have new fractals and not overhauling the system every fricking year. Too much time and development was spend to overhaul fractals over the last years. It’s enough, just rework the older ones and bring new fracs.
In my opinion they can also remove the instabilities completely because they add no fun to the fights.

1) See above for my replies to the stat-swapping stuff.

2) An overhaul of instabilities could remove the pointless ones, and add things that provide a constant challenge. Making instabilities isn’t as time-consuming as making new Fractals, and gives long-life to the content.

3) Removing the instabilities would make Fractals pointless and easy af. They’re the only bit of challenge in the instances at the moment.

CptAurellian.9537:

I agree with Vince. While I wouldn’t mind some rotation in the instabilities and maybe a few new ones, such a system would have to be implemented very carefully. I don’t want to see another disaster like boon thieves and your suggestions are exactly on that level. Also, that stat swapping stuff is just bad. There’s legy armor for stat swapping (what would be the point of it?) and it would be incredibly tedious if you had to swap every bloody day because some new stupid stuff has popped up.

1) My suggestions aren’t concrete, only examples of what could exist.

2) Pressing a drop down menu isn’t as tedious as having to spend 40g to re-spec just for fractals, if you’ve been playing WvW or another mode with a different meta.

3) Anet’s been looking for Fractal currency sinks. This is an idea that could work for Pristine Relics.

Linken.6345:

Easy get another set of ascended or raid/spvp or wvw legendary armors

Unfortunately, that’s not realistic or ‘easy’ in any way. That’s a long grind for a lot of players. Also, the WvW/PvP legendary armour sets are more difficult to craft than the raid set IIRC.

But if you want to swap builds now with Ascended Armour, you have to pay upwards of 30g-40g every single time… so I’m not sure what the issue is with my proposal regarding Ascended Stat-Swapping.

Generally speaking, I’m not an extremely elite GW2 player, but I have my share of MMO experience from multiple games, such as WoW, SWTOR, LOTRO etc etc. and I adore GW2’s Fractal System. However, I keep feeling as if it’s not enjoyable and gets a bit repetitive after a few days, and that’s purely down to the lack of diverse challenge. It all feels very same-y. So below, you’ll find my thoughts on how Fractals could be improved to have a longer life-span.

Mistlock Instabilities

The Mistlock Instabilities are a great concept, but lack variety. For many players, we only experience about 3-4 Instabilities, ranging from Toxic Trail to Flux Bombs, and then it gets very ‘run of the mill’.

Proposal: Mistlock Instabilities should rotate daily/weekly to add new challenges to existing Fractals, in addition to adding a new roster of Instabilities, such as those that encourage build diversity.

Examples:

‘Reversal’ = All boons inflict conditions on the users, and all conditions give boons.
‘Over-Protection’ = Barrier that exceeds max health deals damage to all allies.
‘Power Play’ = Only Conditions deal damage to enemies.
‘Condition Red’ = Conditions deal no damage to enemies.

These are just a few examples, that I feel could improve build diversity within Fractals.

Ascended Armour Stat-Swapping

I can already hear the pin-drop. “Oh gosh, what is she about to say now?” Believe me, I wouldn’t be saying this if there wasn’t a drawback. In the current climate, stat-swapping feels essential to the game, as optimal builds are required in different modes. Such as Staff Daredevil or D/D Thief in Raids, or D/P or Trapper Thief in WvW etc, it feels as if the ability to change builds on the fly shouldn’t be locked behind a legendary-grinded armour set, but should be upgraded through doing existing content without the skins.

Proposal: Pristine Fractal Relics and Journal Pages should be used to unlock stat-swapping on a piece of Ascended Armour, or a Weapon. The proposed value is a minimum of 360 Pristine Fractal Relics for a full set of stat-swapped Armour, as that’d take 24 days to farm, but then the Pages could be relative to this number, or higher.

Every day, a person can gain 15 Pristine Fractal Relics, in 4 days, with Relics alone, they could stat-swap a piece of armour or a weapon, providing that they do every Fractal for 4 days in the Daily Pool. This value could be increased to suit the current game-play motive.

Conclusion

Don’t jump on me for having an opinion. I don’t particularly want to see the usual rage, which seems to come out of people who believe that everything is perfect. I have things that I enjoy in GW2, and things that I dislike, and Fractal game-play is something I enjoy but have criticism to help improve it.

I hope you like my suggestions, and let the Hunger Games begin! <3

Warrost.4895:

I disagree with you, that deadeye is a good trait, but that is totally personal opinion.
But we both agree, rifle get much hate (well deserved) and I totally understand the frustration.
While every other class got an at least usable new weapon, we just got a new traitline since rifle is so bad most don’t even call it a weapon, just a gimmick, and cantrips are mostly underwhelming (heal may has it’s place).

With Cantrips, there’s only Mercy that’s not really that great. Shadow Gust is good for clearing a point if someone’s lost block abilities. However, Binding Shadow and Shadow Flare are equally amazing, IMO, due to the fact that BS has the immobilise and the knockdown on marked targets, which is incredibly useful for bursting. And Shadow Flare is great for maintaining a steady flow of damage when you’re waiting for the right moment to close the gap. If you’re in trouble, Shadow Flare is a great distraction/DPS tool to use. <3

YuiRS.8129:

You lose Steal when you go Deadeye. So… no.

As I said: “If the Mark was an instant-cast, it could rival Daredevil.” However, in its current state, Daredevil is the optimal elite spec. Though, you could do just as much damage with Deadeye, if it’s in the right hands. For example, from duelling experience earlier, Deadeye was more effective for killing Holosmith than Daredevil was. It’s just different tools for different jobs, and IMO, Steal isn’t the be-all and end-all of Thief.

First of all, there’s a lot of rage about Deadeye being under-powered and such, but in reality, people aren’t thinking about Deadeye, they’re talking about the Rifle. If you split the Rifle from Deadeye, it’s completely viable as a 1v1 spec, and while it might sacrifice a little bit of mobility, it’s not a massive amount.

So I instantly decided to run a D/P + Shortbow build with Deadeye, and if the Mark was an instant cast, it could rival Daredevil IMO, even though Deadeye is entirely viable regardless. Using Mark and Binding Shadow together is an amazing way to stun and immobilise any class that isn’t blocking, giving an amazing opportunity to launch Shadow Flare and deal constant damage, along with a Black Powder + Heartseeker combo burst. It’s incredibly effective.

The new heal is great, as it’s better than Withdraw and Hide in Shadows after 2 stacks of Malice, and with Signet of Agility, your condi cleanse potential is great. However, if there are condi AoE’s, just don’t stand in them. Awareness is key for Deadeye. With Hide in Shadows, we now have Shadow Meld to grant the stealth.

The Rifle isn’t great, it’s a gimmick, but Deadeye is not the Rifle. That’s my general message! <3

First of all, as I understand it: We’ll make demo characters again, so stop worrying about tanking existing WvW servers etc.

Secondly: There’s two very important parts to balancing a spec: How it feels to use it, and how it feels when it’s used against you. If Anet’s relying on community feedback to balance their specs, the only way to do that is through WvW and PvP, mainly PvP as it’s in an enclosed environment with less players. Yes, it feels wrong that PvE doesn’t get the same luxury, but it’s very tough to balance specs without honest opinions on both sides, and it’s difficult to balance a spec when the opposite side is a computer-controlled mob, on anything other than damage output.

I wouldn’t say that Anet’s not appeasing GW1 players. If anything, the only reason that we’re in Elona is because of GW1 nostalgia, and pandering to the older players.

Positives:

+ Mounts, don’t change a single thing about them.

+ Map exploration was so much fun, the new map is beautiful.

+ The Mastery acquisition is much better than HoT already, and feels more thought-out.

+ Unidentified Gear is fine, but add different rarity tiers to make it easier.

+ The sounds/misc. things are amazing, and really need more credit!

+ Bounties/Races are the open-world content that I’ve been waiting for. <3

+ Material Caches are perfect, and it’d be nice to have that RNG, with a map limit of 5 keys per account per day, to prevent the economy from nose-diving.

Negatives:

- This will be hard to fix now, but the story generally doesn’t feel large-scale and epic. While the opening is quite different to usual, the same happened in Verdant Brink, and then it turned into more of a Disney adventure than a darker story. I hope this isn’t the case in Path of Fire!

- Mobs need a health/damage buff to add challenge. While people will argue that the story mobs are overpowered, it’s not true. It’s just because they’re a tiny bit more challenging than usual and people can’t work out how to dodge orange cones.

- Minor gripe: Raptors can get stuck in weird places, normally steps.

TL:DR

Story (So far): 5/10
Map Design: 10/10
Mounts: 9/10
Gear/Loot: 8/10
Mastery Acquisition: 9/10
Open World Content: 10/10

The Good:

- The map, the tone, the setting. It’s all wonderful and vast, and it has a sense of character, like the Maguuma Jungle did.

- The mounts, of course, handle and control well! Please don’t change this!

- Races are a great source of fun, every now and then.

- The bounty events are fun and engaging, and a great source of frequent open world content.

- The Mastery Points are more thought-out, and involve more than just ‘finding them’. The colour-coded puzzle in the ruins is a really good example!

- The cache/limited key per day system. If it was 5 keys per zone per day, I think it might be the best heart reward system in a very long time. And please, don’t nerf the loot drops from the caches. It’s a great way to farm all of the materials at random!

- The Casino Coin event, whilst small, is a great mini-game to reward Minis and hopefully other rewards.

- The mobs feel fair and engaging, like they add to the setting and the tone.

- The story’s opening has a grim tone, as if there’s actually a threat for once with the Herald’s rampage. It’s really snazzy.

The Bad:

- Some of the mobs, such as Sand Eels, Choya, individual Forged (not hunting parties in events), and the Zaishen, need a damage buff as they feel far too squishy, and we can easily cut through them. I was playing a D/P Thief and stood still against each mob, and only really took about 2k damage before I managed to kill each one, of my 17k health pool.

- As others have said, marking the Bounties by ‘relevancy’ would be really helpful. It can be a bit annoying when you pick up a Bounty and arrive as it’s just died.

- A nit-pick but Kasmeer’s dialogue that she can’t believe that a God’s turned on/abandoned us is a bit strange, considering Abaddon etc, and at a further stretch, the Exodus of the Gods.

- Rytlock’s Revenant mystery really needs to come to an end in this expansion in a fulfilling way. Of course, this isn’t a gripe with the demo, but something that you’ve teased and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

I’ll totes need to put on my lore cap for this, but this is a bit silly. The first thing is: Amnoon and Elona are not the same place. Amnoon residents appear to have more Arabic/Mediterranean features, whereas Elonian refugees carry darker skin and African features.

It’s heavily implied that the Elonian nobility resides in the south and the east with Palawa Joko, as allies of the Awakened. It’s not that they don’t exist, it’s just that they aren’t in Amnoon as they have no reason to be there, aside from one or two.

I played this encounter, without dying, on a Core Thief, with a sword/pistol set-up. It’s not optimal or ideal in any way, in full exotic gear with mis-matched stats. This is really just a case of how good you can be with situational awareness. It’s not a difficult fight at all, and it really sets the tone of the expansion.

This feels more like an attempt to nerf the encounter to make it even easier than it already is, and while I’d normally show empathy, the ‘difficulty’ of the expansion’s content so far is perfect, in both instances and in the open world.

D/P+Shortbow or Rifle Deadeye will replace Daredevil as the Thief meta, due to Malice, Shadow Meld and the pulse ability for mobility. With a 9% damage increase over 6 seconds on a marked target, it’ll be better than Daredevil in longer duels as long as you can land a hit every couple of seconds. The extra dodge isn’t needed due to Withdraw and the Deadeye retreat. It’ll maintain its place as a 2v1 spec, with mobility, and could outplay other specs as a continued burst spec. <3

Ben Phongluangtham.1065:

vorpal.1497:

If 2 teams are approximately equally matched against eachother, I would argue that even 10 seconds is enough to throw the match – because once the initial team fight is lost, there is a snowball effect where the losers continue to lose as they trickle on to nodes 1 by 1.

We’re definitely never going that low. People would be DCing every match, since there would be a relatively good chance to still win and then 0 risk of losing rating if you still lose the match.

Also, if your team trickles on to nodes 1 by 1 continually, you probably deserve to lose.

With: “Also, if your team trickles on to nodes 1 by 1 continually, you probably deserve to lose.”, that’s not exactly a developer response that makes someone feel valued. Maybe if there was an in-game tutorial about this kind of thing, you’d see more valuable PvP within the game. But this statement really devalues the developer outlook on the whole situation, and also seems to be less insightful and more rude than anything else.

Update: Started the day as Silver Tier 1 (1,076), I’m now Silver Tier 2 (1,150) after 3 matches! \o/

#progress

^^ Elaborate pls? (megilandil)

Anet just needs to add more maps to Stronghold, or make new game-modes in general. Problem solved. Also, different rank scales for different game-modes would be amazing.

It depends on when you’re playing. Late at night/middle of the day = smaller pool of players, so it’ll have to drag people from other divisions into your matches, and then you might be unlucky and be the lowest rated player in the match. It happens… but if it’s a recurring thing during active hours, you need to find out what you’re doing wrong. 1 person can change a whole match, I didn’t believe it at first, but it’s so true. You need to be focused all the time, and if you’re struggling with your class, watch a good streamer who plays your class. I just watch Sin on repeat to match his play-style and it’s helped so much for me during the off-season. :P

I just expected a -9, or a -15 for a one time loss. Not -45. That was like my day’s progress (only played 4-5 matches that day). It just feels a bit wrong that you’re not allowed to queue with your friends depending on the division that they’re in, because if you lose, you’ll be pulled down massively.

Ngl, if I can carry a game on Thief with a really mediocre team, you can probably carry on an Engineer.

The reality: I’m not good at carrying. :P

I just want someone to explain this. I play 3 games, win all 3 in soloq, then I duoq, play exactly the same as I normally would, a relatively perfect game for my own personal standards… and we lose by a small margin due to a language barrier but we can’t help that.

What I don’t understand: Why did I lose 45 points in one game, for a close loss? I’m Silver Tier 1, my duoq partner was Bronze Tier 2 for that loss. So I’ve lost my day’s progress because of one match, with class stacking and a language barrier. It just seems a bit unfair ngl.

I appreciate the delay but you really should’ve made an executive decision regarding the snowstorm and the unforeseen setbacks earlier to prevent people from wasting their time doing nothing, like taking time off of work which they won’t get back.

However, if the patch is coming ASAP, for the love of god, don’t release the raid wing at the same time. Make sure you release it the day after to give everyone a fair chance at it, otherwise it’s just unfair.

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

But that’s the thing: I can’t personally swing a game from a loss to a win on my own. I need a good, well-rounded team to help, and in a lot of my defeated games, my teams are beyond dumb. They can’t rotate properly, they suicide at mid, they leave me alone to cap 3 points while they duel off-point, overload far with 4 players. I’m providing my evidence and you’re just throwing it off like it shouldn’t exist. I can’t prevent these instances, and when you’re stuck in the lowest tier, it always happens, drags me down and locks me off from progressing higher because ’I’m where I’m meant to be’, yet my contribution in all games rewards me with Top Stats etc etc, and don’t discredit Top Stats because that’s definitely an indication of player skill, if you’re out-performing the rest of your team.

This is where you’re totally wrong. If you’re good enough, you absolutely can swing a game from a loss to a win on your own. Thief is very capable of doing that. You’re just not personally able to do it, there’s a difference.

I’m actually getting sick and tired of hearing: “This is where you’re totally wrong.” I’m not wrong, because I never claimed to be a pro player. I claimed to be at least competent unlike my teams when I lose. When I have a competent team, everyone gets on fine and we win, and no, I’m not ‘being carried’, I’m providing a valuable contribution to my team by rotating properly, de-capping and capping, winning 1v1s, aiding 1v1s to become 2v1s etc etc.

Basically, the bottom line of what you’re saying is: “Your team doesn’t matter. You should be able to individually win a game.” It’s complete BS, no team gets carried to a victory. Everyone has to contribute, unless you’re paired with a pro-level duo.

But that’s the thing: I can’t personally swing a game from a loss to a win on my own. I need a good, well-rounded team to help, and in a lot of my defeated games, my teams are beyond dumb. They can’t rotate properly, they suicide at mid, they leave me alone to cap 3 points while they duel off-point, overload far with 4 players. I’m providing my evidence and you’re just throwing it off like it shouldn’t exist. I can’t prevent these instances, and when you’re stuck in the lowest tier, it always happens, drags me down and locks me off from progressing higher because ’I’m where I’m meant to be’, yet my contribution in all games rewards me with Top Stats etc etc, and don’t discredit Top Stats because that’s definitely an indication of player skill, if you’re out-performing the rest of your team.

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

And so you think matchmaking is conspiring against you by always placing you with the bad players? That’s not how it works. The 4 players on your team suck, the 5 players on the other team suck too, and guess what cause there’s one more player in that match…

I’m just saying that 50% of the time, my luck is beyond atrocious with my team comps. And because there are more players in Bronze than any other tier (given my evidence’s results), and due to the lack of a 1 class per person on one team system, I’m more likely to have an absolutely terrible match while doing my job effectively. Believe me or don’t believe me, but I pull my weight as much as I can in these horrific, mind-numbing matches.

Also, just because your skill rating is low, doesn’t mean you’re automatically bad. You could have decay and be climbing back up. You could be stuck with bad team members. It happens, don’t pretend like it doesn’t because you’re in a higher division. If you haven’t experienced it properly, your opinion is less relevant.

Decay only affects leaderboard positioning, it is not used for matchmaking, so you’re totally wrong there. If your skill rating is low, it means you’re bad. That’s literally what a skill rating is. It’s… a rating… of your skill.

Which depends only on wins and losses… how is that a logical way to measure -personal- skill? You will have bad teams in any division between Bronze and Gold, so if 4 players are brain-dead, and you’re actually trying to do something, does that make you a bad player?

Fay.2357:

Twyn.7320:

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

And so you think matchmaking is conspiring against you by always placing you with the bad players? That’s not how it works. The 4 players on your team suck, the 5 players on the other team suck too, and guess what cause there’s one more player in that match…

I’m just saying that 50% of the time, my luck is beyond atrocious with my team comps. And because there are more players in Bronze than any other tier (given my evidence’s results), and due to the lack of a 1 class per person on one team system, I’m more likely to have an absolutely terrible match while doing my job effectively. Believe me or don’t believe me, but I pull my weight as much as I can in these horrific, mind-numbing matches.

Also, just because your skill rating is low, doesn’t mean you’re automatically bad. You could have decay and be climbing back up. You could be stuck with bad team members. It happens, don’t pretend like it doesn’t because you’re in a higher division. If you haven’t experienced it properly, your opinion is less relevant.

Honestly, three things:

1) Being matched with awful team-members who must have been carried to a certain skill rating by a friend.

2) I won’t complain about DH being too OP, but trap spamming is a painful time for any ‘squishy’ class.

3) Rangers can somehow shoot through stealth for Thief with Rapid Fire. If it’s the condi issue, it’d be nice to have a condi cleanse on Blinding Powder to remove 2-3 conditions when you enter stealth. (Correct me if I’ve missed something pls!)

Fay.2357:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

Matchmaker most definitely chooses which team is going to win 100% of the time. One side will always have players that can’t even find the home point, while the other team runs rings around them. I’ve been on both teams an even amount of times.

I’m saying that you’ll end up on the better team just as often as you end up on the worse team. The basic effect of the system produces a 50% winrate.

so Sooloo says that most of their matches are blowouts or something like it, and you say its ok because the amount of those matches each player is on the receiving end of is 50/50.
the alternative being that if mm was fixed somehow then we would have more close matches.

No, you’re confusing issues. Blowout matches aren’t caused by the matchmaking, and matchmaking isn’t worried about the score in matches. Matchmaking only worries about the final outcome, that’s it.

Blowout matches are inherent to gw2 PvP. The match dynamics are very snowbally with capture points, making even fairly close matches in terms of team skill end up as blowouts in score. Nothing that matchmaking can do will change this; it’s built into the very structure of the game.

It’s also worth noting that any given anecdote about matches on these forums is highly suspect. Most players are bad and can’t actually judge how people are playing. Just look at this thread for the perfect example: the OP is convinced that they’re a good player, yet they have a 50% winrate in the bottom tier of bronze.

Except from the fact that I can’t control 4 other players. I wish people would just stop brushing over this basic fact. If 4 other people suck, you will lose. Simple.

1) The screenie’s from Divinity’s Reach :P
2) I had a look at the rest of my friends list, who are all pretty active PvPers, who I’d deem ‘the average player’… and 50% (40/80) are in any tier of bronze, most of which have played 100 games. I’ve finally played my 100 games, and I’m in bronze tier 2 after a run of abysmal teams preventing me from reaching tier 3, and yes, I duo queued with a friend who said the same thing across every game.
3) I don’t exactly ‘lose concentration’ with Thief. I just get shouted at for making logical decisions… like fleeing a 3v2 if my ally’s downed to go and cap a different point which actually benefits the team. I’m just struggling to find the part where I’m the issue tbh in my games. I’m sure I’d be killed instantly in any other division, but in bronze… gawd some players are dumb.

suffish.4150:

The thing is, if you are stuck in bronze 1 and can’t get out, then you are not a good player at all, or even average. I am not being mean or anything but I am just stating the facts. Insisting that you are better than your team will get you nowhere, in bronze or in legendary. This isn’t a problem though, because if you really focus on trying to improve, you can become a good player pretty quickly. In maybe 1000 games on your class you can go from useless to pretty good if you focus on improving from mistakes.

First of all, you need to run the meta build. They are meta for a reason- they are far better than any alternatives. If you think you do better with another build, that is fine but you shouldn’t be running it because when you reach a point where you are very good, you will be less effective than people of equal skill.

As others have said, as a thief you need to decap as much as you can and make sure you get kills. You can’t teamfight, so focus on the side caps and smaller fights. You need to rotate well to carry a game and know where to be all the time. Holding a 1v2 is helpful but it is not your job as a thief, so focus on trying to finish off as many kills as you can.

Most importantly of all, DO NOT DIE. This is the most important thing for any player in any division. If you think you could die, then disengage. You are only harming your team if you die. On thief you have many tools to disengage so never overcommit to a fight and leave when you get pressured. Dying on point in a 1v2 is much, much worse than disengaging, even if it means you hold the cap for another 15 seconds.

I hope this helped.

Okay, so I’ve played 6 games with this advice… most of it being what I already know. I changed back to the meta. I won the first 3 games, but I noticed a clear step-up in team competence as my skill rating increased to about 822… and then I lost the next 3 which put me back down on 795, even tho I was following the advice to the letter in every game, making smart decisions to avoid deaths etc etc, but my teams were beyond terrible. I kept seeing the same trends, people overloading points, duelling off-point… and I can’t control that. It’s just becoming a very painful grind atm…

choovanski.5462:

what a joke. me & my pals have decayed down to the bottom of bronze multiple times. climbing out is miserably easy.

just play like a baller & rock peoples socks off.

being rewarded for high team stat is innane tho. if you climbed this way i would literally just run around the map killing players. ive had multiple games with well over 20kills so i’d just make max kills my goal every game. because whats the point of winning of top stats is all that matters?

===

of course, you are welcome to play a terrible build, DD Condi & focus on team stats.
but as you can see, thats going to keep you exactly where you are now.

Evidently, you didn’t read a word of my post. I never claimed that Top Stats should make wins pointless. I said that they’d be a good buff to increase your rating or provide a safety net for any kind of drop down.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Top stats show nothing. Sure, sometimes they can show valuable contribution, but often they don’t. You can carry games without getting any top stats and you can play terrible and still get multiple top stats. If top stats would be factor in MMR calculation, it would just encourage players to focus more on getting those stats instead of actually winning games, which is bad.

And how can you know, that it’s always your team dragging you down? (Don’t tell me its becase of top stats). Maybe you just don’t see your own mistakes because you focus too much on your team’s mistakes? Always blaming the team for losses is a mindset that won’t help you climbing. You can’t change how your team plays. You can only change how you play so you should always question yourself “What could i have done better?”.

No one has a perfect game. We all make mistakes, so I know how to identify mine. But when 4 people are trying to cap far, and I’m left to deal with two points alone, with 3 people roaming to try and stop me, I’m not able to do anything.

And are you really being serious with the Top Stats counter-argument? If Top Stats rewarded less than a win, people would focus more-so on getting a win than their Top Stats. Top Stats should just be a bit of a safety net in case you end up losing. Losing 20 rating for a loss isn’t fun, when you only gain 8 for a win.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Because winning IS all what matters. PvP is NOT about dealing the maximum amount of dmg or healing, it is not about ressing or killing the most, it is about winning the games. Top stats are pretty meaningless and therefore they shouldn’t contribute to the MMR.

If you are at about 50% win ratio, then it is most likely that you are where you belong. If you want to climb – learn how to win more games.

Winning should be what matters, definitely. But a losing player can get a Top Stat which shows a valuable contribution to their team’s effort, and that’s a clear measure of player skill. ‘Learn how to win more games’ is the most frustrating comment ever. I’m aware of how to win games otherwise I wouldn’t be at 50%, but I can’t control a whole team without effective communication and competent team members. I want to climb higher but I’m being pulled down by 4 other members.

In a logical sense: You could have hundreds of bronze players who are actually decent at the game, who are being brought down by the other members on their team, so they’re stuck in bronze due to the calibre of other players, due to the fact that they’re losing their games but pulling a lot of Top Stats in the process, yet wins/losses are the only things that matter towards your rating.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Twyn.7320:

So, to start things off… I’m not trying to claim I’m the best player ever in the world… evidently I’m not. I’m a nobody, but just one of the average PvPers in the game who wants to progress and set personal goals…

Buuuuuuut… I’ve been stuck in Bronze Tier 1 for the whole season, I’ve never managed to climb into Tier 2, and honestly, I don’t even think I’m that bad of a player. I’m able to read the map, win my fights, cap my points etc etc, but some of the teams I’ve been with have blown my mind. From people not using team chat, to people who throw themselves on a point and expect to win against an AoE spam. Attached, you’ll see that my win/loss ratio is about 28 wins to 30 losses… but that shouldn’t be the measure of my personal skill.

…then you are not an “average” player, you are a bottom tier player. I know it’s hard to accept, but that’s the hard reality of it.

Every complaint you have about your team applies equally to the opposite team, so there is absolutely nothing preventing you rising above it all if you have the skill for it.

There’s nothing preventing me from rising up… unless my team is terrible. I can’t control the skill levels of my team members, and if the other team has individuals that are better than my team’s awful members, then we’re guaranteed a loss. I’m not saying I lose every single game, as you can see, I’m winning 50% (near enough) of my games, but in those games, I feel like I’m pulling a lot of the workload whether it’s by capping points that people are avoiding or winning fights bcus 3 people can’t kill 2 enemies on mid. As a thief, I know it’s my job to go around capping/decapping, but my teams just tend to suicide at mid and give nothing to the team, and then I lose rating bcus of it.

Marmatt.8590:

Twyn.7320:

Marmatt.8590:

My advice would be first get a real build. It seems based off of your screenshot you’re using some sort of d/d condi evade build.

First I would use the meta, because of its effectiveness in being able to carry teams. Then find a friend you can duo with. Or even ask in map chat.

Your win/loss ratio doesn’t really determine your skill rating. It is an important factor but I would surmise (not saying it isn’t true) you’re kind of exaggerating just how often you get top stats. Because if you’re getting 2-3 top stats consecutively with an ok win/loss ratio then you should at least be in silver.

That’s my advice anyway xD not saying it’s the only way, but generally that’s how I’ve seen people go from bronze to gold pretty easily. You can always just run the face roll DH and just throw your keyboard against the wall and win generally.

1) The build I’m using is -very- effective in 1v1s, 2v1s, roaming and team-fights, at a cost of health.

2) The meta is 5% of the player. It’s just ‘the best possible build based on statistics’… but the player is in control of the build. A terrible player with the meta could be worse than a good player with a non-meta build.

3) To my knowledge, Top Stats don’t count towards your Skill Rating, so it’s purely based on wins/losses.

The point is that what you’re doing right now isn’t working. If it’s been 2 months and you can’t even get out of tier 1 it seems your methods and/or opinions do not work. So I’m simply suggesting you switch it up and see if it works.

I actually used the meta for the first half of my season, then I changed due to inefficient wins/losses to Vault Spammer, then changed again to D/D. I’ve been through 3 builds in 2 months and this is the first one to provide any results.

Marmatt.8590:

My advice would be first get a real build. It seems based off of your screenshot you’re using some sort of d/d condi evade build.

First I would use the meta, because of its effectiveness in being able to carry teams. Then find a friend you can duo with. Or even ask in map chat.

Your win/loss ratio doesn’t really determine your skill rating. It is an important factor but I would surmise (not saying it isn’t true) you’re kind of exaggerating just how often you get top stats. Because if you’re getting 2-3 top stats consecutively with an ok win/loss ratio then you should at least be in silver.

That’s my advice anyway xD not saying it’s the only way, but generally that’s how I’ve seen people go from bronze to gold pretty easily. You can always just run the face roll DH and just throw your keyboard against the wall and win generally.

1) The build I’m using is -very- effective in 1v1s, 2v1s, roaming and team-fights, at a cost of health.

2) The meta is 5% of the player. It’s just ‘the best possible build based on statistics’… but the player is in control of the build. A terrible player with the meta could be worse than a good player with a non-meta build.

3) To my knowledge, Top Stats don’t count towards your Skill Rating, so it’s purely based on wins/losses.

sephiroth.4217:

What I don’t understand is: Your rating is that low even though you have better win loss ratio than people in 1400+

Even they guy below you has won more than he lost?

Oh, it’s just another issue with the system. :P

Why not just play one game each day to make sure? :P

As much as I’d love to say: “I can carry!”, I’m not a pro player. I’m not trying to say that I’m that. And one person of an average quality can’t carry a whole team. If you can solo-carry, that’s quite a step-up from the average player tbh.

So, to start things off… I’m not trying to claim I’m the best player ever in the world… evidently I’m not. I’m a nobody, but just one of the average PvPers in the game who wants to progress and set personal goals…

Buuuuuuut… I’ve been stuck in Bronze Tier 1 for the whole season, I’ve never managed to climb into Tier 2, and honestly, I don’t even think I’m that bad of a player. I’m able to read the map, win my fights, cap my points etc etc, but some of the teams I’ve been with have blown my mind. From people not using team chat, to people who throw themselves on a point and expect to win against an AoE spam. Attached, you’ll see that my win/loss ratio is about 28 wins to 30 losses… but that shouldn’t be the measure of my personal skill.

I’m not saying I deserve to be in gold or something like that, I just want to at least climb up a single tier without being dragged down by unlucky matchmaking. Carrying a game at my level isn’t possible, I’m not a pro PvPer, I have enough experience to direct a team but not solo everything. The problem is: I can’t climb out of my tier because of two things…

1) Wins and losses are not a measure of personal skill.
1b) The way to counter this would be to add Top Stats to your rating, like +5 for every Top Stat that you earn, to reduce the amount of rating that you lose, or increase it if you win by a large margin.

2) Bronze Tier 1 is too large to climb. Trying to gain 850 rating is very difficult, due to the luck required to gain competent teams every single match.
2b) Obvs, the way to counter this is to reduce the amount of rating required to achieve Bronze Tier 2. I’ve played all of my matches in Bronze Tier 1, I haven’t escaped it, even after a long run of consecutive wins.

It feels as if nothing’s really changed in the PvP system apart from the queue sizes. Of course, this was a test run of the system, but I feel like these tiny changes would make a world of difference for the average player.

Anyway, feel free to tell me to ‘learn to play’ or ‘git gud’, but this is just my infuriating experience of Season 5. o/

EDIT: Additional Information – I’m getting about 2-3 Top Stats per game on average! ;D