Showing Posts For Versepelles.1972:
Thanks to all those who have contributed constructive feedback! I’m glad this thread has sparked such interest, even with much of it being the unfortunately typical criticism without solutions. I’ll update the original post to reflect some of the community viewpoints.
I pretty much straight disagree with everything you’ve suggested.
It’s no fixing and no easy changes. Mutilating Power builds and trying to make Mallyx pseudo-Necromancer while not coming up with any worthwile suggestions to things that are in need of changes is no “balancing Revenant”.
Which of the changes do you disagree with, and more importantly, why? What would you do to make a better (from the viewpoint of all classes in PvP) Revenant?
You should find most of the stuff out here:
It seems you are concerned with a few things, some of which are addressed here, and some of which are good contributions.
- Lack of a ranged weapon. Check out my suggestion for the increased range on mace. I agree that rev should have a better ranged option, but unfortunately that’s not an easy fix.
- Unrelenting assault. Can’t tell if you like its damage or not. It seems to me that an evade and damage skill that follows you through a number mitigation techniques (longer than a dodge, goes through teleports, can be used in conjunction with gaze of darkness, which is insta-cast, to negate stealth) should not have such a high damage coefficient.
- We seem to have different ideas about Mallyx, but both agree that it could be improved.
Thanks for some constructive ideas, but it would be great to have those summarized by you in the context of this thread if you would like to join the conversation, to avoid misinterpretations.
Nerf to Rolling Mists affects Condition and Hybrid builds way more than Power ones.
That’s a good point, what might be a better version of toning down some of power shiro rev’s damage then (or moving it somewhere more active than UA)?
snip
Thanks for the great feedback! To adress some of the points (but not all):
Unrelenting assault’s damage should be reduced on the basis of skill design- an evade should not deal quite so much damage, even split amongst targets. The revenant has a great deal of active mitigation (dodge, sword 3, shield 5, staff 3, staff 5, shiro roll), which is fine, but it should not be coupled with high damage output at the same time.
Coalescence of Ruin CD increase seems a fine solution as well.
Axe 5 chain could operate as CC, similar to temporal curtain.
Jallis and Ventari are both fine places for condi removal, but unfortunately offer little else that would allow the rev to stay meta, which is why Mallyx might be a good place to put some condi removal or transfer, to promote active gameply rather than reliance on passive boons.
Absolutely does Glint’s heal need to be more visible, as do Dragonhunter traps. Facets are fine where they are, but Glint would still be perfectly viable with cast times for activation, and this could offer minor balance to the boon spam of revs.
I think that rev damage is not necessarily over the top; as in it can’t take out a bunker druid, but it could use some downscaling in favor of more active mechanics than simply popping facets to gain a passive damage increase. With that in mind, either Roiling Mists or Shared Empowerment should be downgraded a bit, and perhaps some active mechanics added elsewhere, like to Mallyx, as Shiro is still in a great place.
(edited by Versepelles.1972)
Hard to disagree with what my fellow revs said
I pretty much straight disagree with everything you’ve suggested.
It’s no fixing and no easy changes. Mutilating Power builds and trying to make Mallyx pseudo-Necromancer while not coming up with any worthwile suggestions to things that are in need of changes is no “balancing Revenant”.
For example CoR can be sidesteped and UA is only a 20% damage increase over AA.
And really you completely ignored those that need changes most.
It has still yet to be clarified exactly what changes revs are in need of most, from the viewpoint of all classes in PvP. My viewpoint is that the active evades on Revenant are great, and the damage is great, but that revs should not have both at the same time (compare this to high-dodging thieves). Revs lack solutions to condis, so this is what we address above. What’s your take on this?
I pretty much straight disagree with everything you’ve suggested.
It’s no fixing and no easy changes. Mutilating Power builds and trying to make Mallyx pseudo-Necromancer while not coming up with any worthwile suggestions to things that are in need of changes is no “balancing Revenant”.
all the changes are ridiculous
Which of the changes do you disagree with, and more importantly, why? What would you do to make a better (from the viewpoint of all classes in PvP) Revenant?
To note, The listed changes should be about a 20% decrease in Revenant dps, which is in no way mutilation. It still absolutely would serve it’s role of damage dealer, it’s quasi-role of point holder, and it retains nearly all of it’s utility. You may be hyperbolizing a bit here, Rym, which is terribly counterproductive. What revisions would you make to this list, and, again, why?
Yeah I’m done. You swapped from mesmer to rev and you think rev damage output is too high. Kden. 10/10 would be trolled again.
My mesmer or any mesmer would school revs for free at this stage in the game.
Good day to you sir.
Given some of the mentioned potential changes to Mallyx and Corruption, do you think that a Mallyx condi build could be viable against chronomancers, given their notorious susceptibility to conditions, and the massive amount of slow that could be returned to them? Why or why not?
The bit that jumped out at me was:
Currently, this trait alone overpowers Revenant raw damage output. A fair reduction will put Revenant damage in line with other classes.
I don’t accept the premise that Revenant damage is that out of line with other professions. I keep hearing that there are others that are better. Which is it?
As for Roiling Mists, the suggestion given is actually how the trait operated during BWE1 and it was felt to be underwhelming, therefore changed to what we currently have. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t, perhaps, be revisited in light of other changes, but felt this was worth mentioning.
I have found that power Revenant damage is moderately higher than the other roamers in the same positions- namely, compared to thieves and mesmers which fulfill something of a similar role (in certain prevalent builds). For instance, in good winning game in soloqueue, I average around 450k damage, maxing around 650k damage (so not dueling a tank druid or anything silly like that). On a power chronomancer, I would probably average around 350k damage in the same role. Now, this is with around 750 games on mesmer versus 150 on Revenant- that is, some aspects of Revenant seem to be easier to deal significant damage- even burst damage- than other classes. Of course, this is anecdotal from my viewpoint, but others in the PvP scene seem to agree with this conclusion.
Of course, other classes (I’m looking at you, Scrappers and Reapers) have similar issues, and need similar balancing.
Also, thanks for the info on Roiling Mists- that’s good to know!
I logged in to say how awful your “balance” decisions are, and people like you are exactly why people with legitimately good balance ethos’ are ignored.
This this thread pains me to read.
Here’s how to respond to a post you disagree with:
“I think your suggestion X is not great because Y. Perhaps Z would be better.”
For instance, I think that you forgot to actually add anything of substance to the conversation. Perhaps you should try that sometime!
I explained my reasons. It is still far too soon to be making any changes to any class at the moment. People need to get better at playing their classes. I may come across as elitist but I definitely have the skill and recognition in my classes to back it up. Rev is not even close to being one of the top classes or specs at the moment.
“Geez” is not a good reason. It would probably be better to specifically state what you disagree with, then why you disagree with that statement. A big balance patch is on the way, meant to pave the way for a more balanced version of the current classes, so some changes are good- the ones listed above are some potential candidates to bring certain aspects of the Revenant in line with other classes.
Hahahahaha. Yeah lets destroy revenant mr “balance”. You know revenant is not even considered to be strongest class let it be teamfight or 1v1 right? Yet you asking for some serious nerfs for no reason at all. I guess someone need to git gut.
Ah btw..in duels rev is rated to be a middle class. In teamfights he struggle as well, you can watch tourneys to see yourself. So what you really want to nerf? Tell me which class you play?
Lets take a moment and talk about each of the listed items and why you may disagree with them- that’s constructive! Revenants are a great class and excel at many roles, and were used extensively (and to good effect) in the last ESL games, indicating that they are indeed a meta class. As such, they have a few aspects which could be brought into line with other classes- as detailed above.
I love the revenant class; it is my PvP main (swapping from mesmer). Lets not get into ad hominem attacks here, and lets not call this what it’s not- this is a list of possible balances, comprised of buffs, nerfs, and tweaks. What do you like about the list, and what do you dislike?
I logged in to say how awful your “balance” decisions are, and people like you are exactly why people with legitimately good balance ethos’ are ignored.
This this thread pains me to read.
Here’s how to respond to a post you disagree with:
“I think your suggestion X is not great because Y. Perhaps Z would be better.”
For instance, I think that you forgot to actually add anything of substance to the conversation. Perhaps you should try that sometime!
EDIT: Looks like we got some clarification, but not much in the way of specifics. Revenant has some skills which are overpowered and some which are underpowered. These suggestions are in no way a nerf or buff, but a balance. So, answer specific questions, like why you believe facets with cast time are bad, and why boon corruption on Mallyx is not an optimal rebalance.
(edited by Versepelles.1972)
Balance is hard, and PvP metas change over time. However, from what we’ve seen so far, The Power Shiro-Glint build is by far dominant in PvP, with Mallyx-Glint a distant second. Here are some suggestions that can help balance the class with minimal design change, given that most current bugs are fixed as well.
As always, many people will have different opinions , so please leave constructive comments only, which of course can include criticisms or proposed changes. EDIT: Some community suggestions have been taken into account in italics.
Weapons
Sword
- Unrelenting Assault: Reduce damage by 50%. This skill should be an evade and teleport, but the damage is too high. EDIT: Some in the community do not want to give up this damage + evade that has very little counterplay. I disagree with this on a fundamental skill design level. Another viable solution could be that the damage remains the same, but if the initial skill cast is dodged, the skill is evaded, like nearly every other skill in the game.
- Grasping Shadow: Reduce cast time to 1/4 second (-50%). Sword off-hand can be just as viable as shield if Grasping Shadow is buffed, adding a layer of complexity, skill, and variety. EDIT: Increase range to 300 (+130%). This skill is too difficult to land in it’s current form.
Hammer
- Coalescence of Ruin: Reduce damage by 33%. Just a moderately overtuned skill, like True Shot. EDIT: A better solution might be to simply increase the cooldown to 8s (+300%).
- Drop the Hammer: Reduce cast time to 1.25s (-29%). This skill is fairly useless in mid to high tier PvP, but could be more interesting with decreased cast time. EDIT: Another option might be to make this a fire and forget skill rather than a channeled skill.
Mace
- Misery Swipe (chain): Increase range to somewhere between 300 and 480. This weapon would see much more use in condi builds with some range on the auto attacks.
Axe
- Temporal Rift: Add a chain skill to detonate the rift, like mesmer’s focus 4 (Temporal Curtain). Decrease the range to 600 (-33%). This alone could make axe a viable choice.
Utilities
Mallyx
- Pain Absorption: Transfer 2 conditions from each ally and youself to the target. Increase cast time to 3/4s (+50%). This allows active counterplay to conditions, and gives revenants meaningful condition removal. This change alone makes Mallyx competitive with Shiro.
- Banish Enchantment: Corrupt 2 boons instead of removing them. Increase cast time to 3/4s (+50%). This allows for active counterplay to some boonful classes.
Ventari
- Remove from the game. (I kid, but this would need a major overhaul to be viable in PvP, it seems). EDIT: This line could be good in some situations, but requires more work than the scope of this article.
Jalis
- See Ventari.
Herald
- All facets: Add 1/4s cast time to initial cast. This forces Revenants to think when to activate the signets, rather than spamming them during Unrelenting Assault or Crystal Hibernation. (Leave Infuse Light and Gaze of Darkness chain skills as instant cast!) EDIT: Many in the community like the freedom of these instacast abilities. However, a small increase to cast time could bring the necessity of Herald in line with the other trait lines.
- Infuse Light: Make this skill about 5 times more visible (+400%). This is a great active mechanic but is currently not visible enough except in the buff bar.
Traits
Devastation
- Malicious Reprisal: Remove the hidden ICD from this trait. This allows active counter to bunker builds which rely on blocking. EDIT: The cooldown is 30s. Remove this cooldown to promote an active threat to bunkers.
Corruption
- Opportune Extraction: Reduce ICD to 6s (-40%). Optionally corrupt boon rather than remove. This allows condition-specced revs to be a threat to boonful classes.
Invocation
- Roiling Mists: Reduce critical chance while under fury increase from 20% to 10%. This is not vital, but it might be a good place to balance overall Revenant damage.
Herald
- Shared Empowerment: Reduce might duration to 5s baseline (-38%). Currently, this trait alone overpowers Revenant raw damage output. A fair reduction will put Revenant damage in line with other classes. EDIT: Many in the community are against a balance in damage. This suggestion would only remove around 12% damage. Please note that there are some significant buffs in Sword off-hand and Malicious Reprisal which would raise skill ceiling to the class even with this small reduction in damage.
(edited by Versepelles.1972)
Revealed is a fine mechanic, as it is direct active counter play to stealth. Thieves certainly have a good deal of access to stealth, which often allows free escape or damage against many specs. Mesmers have the same issues, and while the revealed mechanic may not be perfect, it is a hard active counter to this strong effect.
Looking to the future, both mesmers and thieves are receiving strong defensive buffs in HoT, which will alleviate much of the reliance on stealth, especially for thieves, as damage mitigation. These changes include shield and F5 for mesmers and staff and dodges for thieves. Especially given these changes, stealth does not seem a necessary trait for either class, but more of a risky luxury, which is exactly what it should be.
Revealed seems fine as it is, a good counterplay to stealth.
Just like to add to the confusion. This mote is bugged as of 17 April 2015 and no workarounds are viable. I purchased the four episodes of the second half of Season 2 in order to get the ascended chestpiece, and this is the only achievement left. I completed all parts of all chapters, then started going back through the achievements, but not strictly in order. The mote never appeared for me (in the past 3 days).
Please fix this quickly.
Looking for a guild to run higher level fractals. Fully geared Altruistic Healing Guardian with 45 AR. Current fractal level is 34. I am located on Kaineng, but would be happy to join any guild on any world (transferring is an option, but would need to be a good guild). Mid twenties, calm, and have TS3, Mumble, Vent, etc. PM ingame or reply here.
(edited by Versepelles.1972)
Flipping is most certainly a common practice in many economies, and GW2 is no exception. When referring to flipping, we mean the purchase of items from the trading post with the intention to profit from the later sale of the same items, without modifying or enhancing them in any way. A well known example of this in our economy is the set of precursors- where many have been bought at a temporally low price, held on to for a period of a few days, weeks, or even months, and sold for a significant profit.
There are many examples of flipping, from limited weapon and armor skins to T6 crafting materials; likewise, there are just as many market mechanisms that can be used to achieve such ends. The question at hand, though, does not concern the ways in which flipping can be achieved, but rather, whether flipping items on the trading post is within the realm of the spirit of Guild Wars 2.
This is a collection of my own thoughts, and does not necessarily reflect any other player’s attitudes or beliefs:
*Flipping reflects real world market mechanics, and involves some degree of risk
*Flipping may be able to help equalize supply and demand for some items; however, the bulk of the utility goes directly to the flipper
*Flipping does not add value to any item, and therefore the money made from such a transaction has little merit, other than perhaps acumen
*The profit made from flipping an item comes directly at other players’ expenses
*There is no clearly defined line between watching market trends and purchasing materials/items which are intended for use when those items cost relatively less, and watching market trends in order to buy items relatively cheap for profit, other than intention
*Flipping is an easy way to make money for many players
*The anonymity and bulk of the trading post itself allows players to disengage the fact that all transactions are between two individuals
*Those who do not play the trading post are at a distinct disadvantage compared to those who do
There are many thoughts and legitimate points both for and against flipping and similar practices; however, my own gut tells me that flipping truly isn’t in the communal spirit of GW2, so I simply do not participate in it. However, I do watch gw2spidy fairly closely, and choose to buy items I need when their prices are low. So:
tl;dr
What do you think about flipping?
Looking for a guild to participate in the new guild content with, since the former guild which I was a part of disbanded. Experienced dungeon crawler, enjoy fractals (30), CoF, and generally any PvE. Whispering is probably most effective at getting a hold of me, or in-game mail, rather than a forum message.
Looking for a guild to run dungeons with- COF and fractals mainly, but all dungeons (even Arah) from time to time. A small, dedicated group or a large, varied guild- doesn’t matter to me, I just want to have a good time, speed runs to farming. I currently run a support/dps elementalist and dps guardian, both fairly standard builds. Both have some ascended gear, but not max AR, which I would love to work on. Give me a shout in-game or a reply here!
Looking for a guild or just a few fellow adventurers to journey the world with. I am currently level 30 on the third day of playing, and take something of a completionist attitude towards the world. WvW is fun, too, but really I’m up for anything most of the time. Additionally, I have TS and Skype available, and am a more mature yet casual player. PM me in game as Versepelles if you’d like to meet up. Thanks!