Guild Wars 2

Oh wow, been away for a while, real life caught up with us! 8D

Also got totally into the game because of the WvW tourney and the April Feature Pack so we haven’t been on the forums for a while.

Saw a reddit thread today discussing the very same thing our theory was so I remembered this thread!

Here’s to hoping people are still interested in talking about bandits and what not! <3

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Technically in my time zone it was posted on April 2nd. So I could argue with him that to me it was true!

But I guess we are heading towards something similar. I once asked Ree Soesbee about Livia’s whereabouts, she said “I can’t say anything about it now”, so I guess maybe the topic’s theory is right ^^

Hahahaha! If we were right that would be way more than what we expected when we first wrote up this theory. XD Would be quite awesome though if we were. XD

I for one would love to see the devs touch on things that exist within the Guild Wars universe that have such old roots. XD For me, it gives the world a really nice feel when you see all the deep lore touched on again. XD

Hey there everyone! Been a long time again!

SkeletalHorses found something interesting today. It’s from the Twitter feed of Arena Net writer John J Ryan.

https://twitter.com/John_J_Ryan/status/451126231413428224

Now, it’s really too bad the post is on April Fools and we know better than to trust anyone on that day, but here’s to hoping this is an actual post about actual work he’s done. Haha!

What do you guys think? Is he hinting towards the White Mantle? Or something else entirely? XD

SkeletalHorses.2108:

Huh. That’s an interesting development. And a very clever one, indeed.

Mine is a bit more sinister…hahaha. Same sort of thing, but Anise working for the White Mantle. But really, right now, her intentions are really vague. It’s really intriguing, the way she presents herself vs. the way she is being presented. There’s just so many mysteries surrounding her. And I’m particularly interested in her possible involvement in the murder of Minister Brios.

Same goes for Queen Jennah. What if… what if… she’s just an illusion? What if she’s that woman being tortured in Marjory’s backstory? What if they didn’t really anticipate Scarlet’s attack during the Queen’s Jubilee and the illusion was just conveniently there? What if, the reason why the Seraph spies at the Hidden Lake are taking so long to get recalled back to Divinity’s Reach is because the current ruling body isn’t really aware they’re there (secret mission and all). On the flipside, there’s the fact that Anise acts as an adviser as well as bodyguard for the Queen, so there’s still the possibility that she knows about the Seraph posted at Brisban Wildlands.

Another thing that’s been bothering me is the fact that the devs changed Jennah’s original costume design. From blue & gold (Shining Blade colours) to white & gold (White Mantle colours). I mean, sure, it’s probably done for purely aesthetic reasons…to create a distinction between characters, but why white and gold of all colours?

So many questions right now. And so many possibilities. Honestly speaking, the more I look at this right now, the crazier it all just sounds. : ))

The biggest interesting thing for me is the color changee in Jennah’s wardrobe. _

Shining Blade colors to White Mantle colors sounds kinda specific. Kind of amazing that you figured this out.)

Hey there everyone!

Sorry for the long lapse in our presence, been a hectic weekend for us.
Oh and Blurk! I’ve been bugging SkeletalHorses to post her speculations about the Queen. She even pointed out some interesting details that I didn’t expect!

I’m sure you guys would enjoy her theory, but I’m leaving it to her to explain it. Haha! Maybe I can add it to the bottom of our main theory as a bonus theory! 8D

What do you guys think?

SkeletalHorses.2108:

Uruz Six.6594:

I still like to think there’s more to the Sinister Triad than ‘lets all team up against the good guys,’ though, but I’ll just have to wait and see. This is fun.

I’d be lying if I didn’t say I agree. And ‘fun’ is an understatement. It’s really exciting and refreshing to exchange theories and speculations like this. _

Xenophanes.8360:

Actually, SkeletalHorses and I are talking even more right now about possibilities and I’m encouraging her to post her thoughts on Queen Jennah on the whole situation! She has even more interesting ideas to add even til now! 8D

I’m not even sure if people would be interested in that. >_> * grumble grumble* * shy *
I’d like to share but for the most part, it’s pure speculation based on a few tenuous connections.

OH COME ON. You’re theory on the queen is pretty interesting! You should really share it here with everyone. XD I can even add it to the bottom of our main theory as a little bonus theory. Haha!

We’re both kinda conspiracy nuts so let’s just all have fun with it. I’m sure everyone would have fun discussing even more possibilities. What makes it even better for us is the academic nature everyone approaches things here, pretty cool environment for intellectual discourse.

I’m really glad the lore forum is full of open minded people who want to discuss Tyria as a living breathing world.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

To add onto my theory: she was looking for ley lines other than LA, more intersections to disrupt, and those near LA was to pinpoint exactly where to drill.

I also mentioned this in my earlier reply, so I agree!

It’s my opinion though that Scarlet was looking for a specific point of the leylines to disrupt. Not necessarily having a definite goal or looking for more leylines, but triangulating the spot to drill in order to disrupt them, hence the multitudes of probes around Tyria!

What do you guys think?

Uruz Six.6594:

Xenophanes.8360:

Hmmm, as much as I’d love to see this as a perfect example of the Mursaat naming convention, it seems a bit lacking to me actually.

The Mursaat were more fond of simple concrete adjectives and imposing titles like the Dire and Matron, instead of portmanteaus Dreameater or Feathered Death.

Now that I’m thinking of Twilight Arbor, I don’t recall a lot of titles there either. Yeah, you’re right. Ah well.

I still like to think there’s more to the Sinister Triad than ‘lets all team up against the good guys,’ though, but I’ll just have to wait and see. This is fun.

Same here actually! There might be a more interesting motivation behind the alliance that we have yet to see!

Fun indeed!

Stramatus.5219:

I had an old guildy that theorized the bandits in Kryta were all really White Mantle. He was disappoint when that didn’t pan out.

I would like to see something concerning the White Mantle, Mursaat, the Bloodstone that is in Maguuma Jungle, Scepter of Orr, etc.

Now to go read this lore theory…

Ohhh, I’m happy to hear that we aren’t the only ones interested in the connection between White Mantle and the Bandits! I hear it’s a much talked about connection actually!

I hope you enjoy our theory! 8D

kimeekat.2548:

Xenophanes.8360:

Man, I actually don’t have a tumblr, but would getting in touch with this guy be a possibility for anyone? It would be great to have more like-minded people discussing in this thread!

Ah, thank you both for replying! You guys made a lot of interesting points. I’m gonna have so much wiki’ing to do this weekend. XD

I can’t get ahold of the user directly; she has her inbox turned off and her ask turned off apparently due to people abusing it previously. :\ But I’ll try a roundabout way of giving your info to their significant other to see if they’d pass it along.

No problem! We love discussion and stuff! 8D I’m glad to see even more people contributing, it makes us feel great to have sparked at least some interest!

That sounds great, I hope you can get in touch with her somehow and tell her about the ridiculous amount of excitement we share with her concerning GW1 lore!

Actually, SkeletalHorses and I are talking even more right now about possibilities and I’m encouraging her to post her thoughts on Queen Jennah on the whole situation! She has even more interesting ideas to add even til now! 8D

kimeekat.2548:

IDK if this tumblr user is one of you guys, but I saw a very similar theory written up at this post. They tie in the appearance of tormented weapons, and have a lot of visuals to go along with the text which makes reading through the denseness pretty fun. They even have caps of glitching into the fortress in (iirc) Brisbane with all the Champs on the wall and the unused portal into a new zone

Thank you for putting this all together!

Hello there!

Thanks for reading through our stuff! Huh, this is actually the first time I’m seeing this tumblr post! Looks like SkeletalHorses saw it last night though. XD

I just read through it and besides some things that SkeletalHorses pointed out, I completely missed the little thing about Tormented Weapons! This sound super awesome as far as hint dropping is concerned. XD I didn’t even give it a second glance when they released it on the gem store, thinking nothing of it than just another weapon release.

I can’t believe I looked past the fact that they’re some of the hardest weapons to get in GW1 and have so much to do with old lore. XD I’m gonna do a ton of research now that this has been brought to my focus! I do remember that the Tormented weapons didn’t have much to do with the Mursaat though >_> I’m not sure if I’m remembering correctly but I’m going to do some research into that!

Regardless, the hint to old GW1 lore is amazing to me!

Man, I actually don’t have a tumblr, but would getting in touch with this guy be a possibility for anyone? It would be great to have more like-minded people discussing in this thread!

Uruz Six.6594:

Xenophanes.8360:

I pointed out in the theory that this was interesting because of the Mursaat naming convention of “[Name] the [Negative Adjective]”. Out of curiosity, are there any more examples of this type of naming convention being used for other NPCs?

Knight of Embers, Lania the Feathered Death, Soira the Dreameater…

The Nightmare Court does seem rather fond of similar naming conventions. And if the bandits are with the mursaat and the Inquest is with the mursaat, then that just leaves us one third of the Sinister Triad left…

Hmmm, as much as I’d love to see this as a perfect example of the Mursaat naming convention, it seems a bit lacking to me actually.

The Mursaat were more fond of simple concrete adjectives and imposing titles like the Dire and Matron, instead of portmanteaus like Dreameater or abstract terms like Feathered Death.

Here are some concrete examples of Mursaat names:

• Willla the Unpleasant
• Maida the Ill Tempered
• Kratos the Foul
• Lazarus the Dire
• Mercia the Smug
• etc.

Actually now that I’m looking at it, their names weren’t exclusively negative adjectives! Some mursaat were named nice sounding things, but usually in an ironic manner:

• Aily the Innocent
• Ambrillus the Guardian
• Melek the Virtuous
• etc.

This is actually why i ended up gravitating towards the name Kraig the Bleak. It sounded a lot like a mursaat name.

Greetings!

Personally, I think the theory is very enjoyable, but I think a few parts of it might be pushing the envelope a bit. Pushing the envelope of possibility is a great trait of any good theory however, so I do verily commend this theory for that!

I do have a few personal thoughts on it that I would like to share!

Part 1
I’m of the opinion that Scarlet’s actions were driven by the desire to get the voice out of her head. As evidenced in her journal, she was not exactly on good terms with the entity invading her mind. Thus I personally saw her actions as a sort of attempt to escape this entity by any means possible. Driven to insanity, her reckless actions drove her to her own demise.

It is true that we’ve received no confirmation that it was Mordremoth in her head, but the reasoning that it couldn’t be Mordremoth due to technology is a bit shaky at best for me. Technology can be viewed as something completely relative, especially in the Guild Wars universe in my opinion. This is due the the Magitech nature of some races, such as the Asura or the Mursaat. What constitutes as technology and the understanding of such concepts can be very different in this world.

At the same time, there might be the possibility that Scarlet might be referring to one of her “Alliances” instead of the entity.

Part 2
For the next part of the theory, I think the main thing to take into account is that the characters that are conversing, the B-iconics specifically, are not omniscient narrators. Therefore, their thoughts on the events are personal as well, not factual. These thoughts can be as speculative as our own and fulfill the function of these characters being the vessel for the players, since our own player character lacks a voice in most of these things.

I’m actually pretty sure that the B-iconics aren’t even completely aware of Mordremoth, let alone his name. This is evidenced in their conversation in the Dead End Bar with them listing off possibilities with only the dragons in their immediate knowledge being mentioned.

Part 3 & 4
For these parts, I agree with some points actually but for different reasons.

For Lion’s Arch, I believe that this was not really Scarlet’s true intended target, but was more of a coincidental target. I believe that the area that she needed to drill into to disrupt the leylines was being currently triangulated by her Sonic Technology during the previous patches, thus the X marks around Lion’s Arch.

On Caithe, I really believe that it was strange to add a line in the Spinal Blueprint that directly addressed Caithe. It might mean more, but for now I think it was a cry for help really. I saw it as Scarlet trying to justify her actions. Plus it could also be a way for the A-Iconics to be tangentially brought back to the main story.

Final part
For your personal theory on what the possible greater entity might be, I’m not exactly sure what solid evidence points to there being an even great entity behind Scarlet’s actions or taking credit for them really.

If anything, I think Scarlet’s actions were of her own accord to break free of the voices, thus her displeasure at the voice taking credit for them.

BUT, on your first postulation! I found part of it to be of interest!

The Aftermath instance in The Dead End formally introduces Belinda Delaqua, whom hints at the Season 2’s direction (IMO): west, dealing with black market dealers who base themselves in Brisban Wildlands. Sounds familiar? Fort Vandal is run by bandits, and bandits are run by the White Mantle. And who runs the White Mantle? Mursaat. Thus I suspect Season 2 will be returning to GW1 lore in the form of Lazarus, and may be tied into Season 1 via being the entity.

We have actually also been discussing the possibility of Guild Wars 1 lore to be brought up in the near future! If anything, we really like this intersection between our theories! We actually also brought up similar reasons as to why the White Mantle might suddenly make an appearance.

Though our main points differ, I bear great interest in seeing old enemies for Living World Season 2.

We brought up this theory a few weeks ago if you’d be interested! We’ve actually been awaiting your thoughts on it since the community seem to be really into your opinions! People have brought up your name a lot as a sort of paragon of lore.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/The-White-Mantle-Return-A-THEORY-SPOILERS

In closing, I’d like to say thank you for the enjoyable read and I hope for more active discussion in the community sparked by threads such as yours!

More power to you,
Xenophanes

Stramatus.5219:

Oh god, I love this. One of my biggest complaints with GW2 was how it treated GW1 lore, or as I thought the lack of it. One of the aspects I really wanted to see is the White Mantle and Mursaat. And it feels that with the direction of the next LS, we may very well get to meet up these old adversaries again. And the political intreague within Kryta tied into this is just making me anxious to see what happens.

Thank you for a very good read.

Much thanks for the interest! It really makes us happy to see the community discuss lore and possibilities. Right or wrong, speculation sure is fun. XD

I’m actually thinking of writing another essay with regards to my other personal theories and speculations, and maybe another essay as well concerning my thoughts on the current state of gameplay in Guild Wars 2 and how that affects us a community. Still on the fence right now whether I should do it or not. Actually awaiting the incoming big feature patch coming up to further solidify my thoughts and stuff. XD

Haha, got a bit off topic there. Anyways, about him:

Scipio.3204:

Anyone mentioned him yet?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini_High_Inquisitor_Maut

This is very interesting! The wiki description says that the title might suggest that he is a high ranking memeber of the Inquest, but Inquisitor was actually a high ranking title for the White Mantle as well! Plus the fact that this NPC doesn’t currently exist within the game currently makes it all the more worthy for speculation.

While we’re on the topic of naming conventions, does anyone have any thoughts on Kraig the Bleak?

I pointed out in the theory that this was interesting because of the Mursaat naming convention of “[Name] the [Negative Adjective]”. Out of curiosity, are there any more examples of this type of naming convention being used for other NPCs?

UPDATE:
New living world developments have brought up a few things that may be related to our theory! Marjory’s sister may be an important factor and connects Delaqua Investigations directly to Brisban Wildlands, the area we pointed out!

Posting and bumping here because of Living World relation, and still not completely sure where this theory belongs honestly. XDDD Our theory mostly relates to the Living World so I hope this counts as a worthy topic here.

Blurk.6231:

Xenophanes.8360:

Much thanks for clearing that up! I’ll make a note of it in the main body of the theory crediting your information. Nice to know that they still have something to do with Logan. Logan seems to not be getting enough attention these days. XD

Logan got some attention in the LA story instance in Origins of Madness I believe and he had a pretty long dialogue. It is Zojja that hasnt appeared at all yet. Something that doesnt really bother me because she never said useful stuff. She is only whining about how stupid everyone is.

I was around for that one! 8D He was really more of there just to talk about bringing Taimi home, oddly enough. I really wish the A-iconics would be more involved in the main story really, aside from the story dungeons. Our main point being that the B-iconics are a way for the A-iconics to be tangentially involved.

So it looks like all our bases are covered for now. Also, I’ve heard that Rytlock was present during the same patch, running around Bloodtide Coast with a small group of Charr during the Three-Headed Wurm’s arrival. Anyone have any information on what he was doing there?

FearTheOyster.5138:

Xenophanes.8360:

. But what about Marjory and Kasmeer? They don’t have anything to do with Destiny’s Edge. They have no old characters that relate to them to bring up like the others. From a story telling perspective, so far Marjory and Kasmeer have functioned as the sort of detective agency that pushes forward the story based on what they deduce, but is that all they have to offer?

Marjory was directly hired by Logan Thackeray to investigate Theo Ashford’s assassination, and Kasmeer her assistant. That is how they get involved in the storyline, and (for a while, anyways) who they report to in regards to the storyline. Kasmeer even seems to be familiar with Logan as well, probably due to him meeting and knowing a lot of nobility.

That said, Logan’s association with Taimi is far more tenuous at best. If anything, they are just distant acquaintances.

They eventually started delivering their discoveries to Ellen Keil when things began to implicate corruption and mayhem in LA politics, of course.

Much thanks for clearing that up! I’ll make a note of it in the main body of the theory crediting your information. Nice to know that they still have something to do with Logan. Logan seems to not be getting enough attention these days. XD

SkeletalHorses.2108:

Luquatic.3825:

This might be very interesting for this theory.

http://imgur.com/pCPiOjE,3vkFKj2,EPgV20x

Look at what she says at the third picture. This conversation can be found in Brisband when talking to the Seraph Sentinel at the Seraph Observers Waypoint.

I was just here earlier, and I took a number of screenshots. Xeno will upload them later (I was playing on his laptop so he still has them). The dialogue with the NPCs changed once I completed Brisban Wildlands (I only did so recently). And all of them mention being there to look for evidence of White Mantle activity at some point in the conversation.

Hey there everyone. XD Here are those screenshots SkeletalHorses was talking about. She took them awhile ago while going around Brisban Wildlands looking for any more clues.

All this was most probably here since launch, but is still very interesting I think. XD What they’re all talking about seems to be connected to Marjory’s sister’s investigations concerning Brisban.

Blurk.6231:

Xenophanes.8360:

Blurk.6231:

Xenophanes.8360:

Dunan Atreides.5436:

Belinda is anet’s way of including seraph interests without necessarrily using Logan – who is voice by Troy Baker, who like Felicia Day, is hard to schedule for.

I’m calling it, Belinda will probably die.

Hahahaha, i’m placing my money on that horse as well. That might be the spark that’s needed for Marjory to connect the dots with her own cases. XD

Now THIS would be nice storytelling! That would mean Marjory would have to reveal more about her past and that would start a new plot line.

Hopefully tying up some loose ends in her story “The Last Straw” while she’s at it! 8D

And since this all about the theory, I’m also putting my money on the White Mantle having a role in there somewhere. 8DDD really wants Anet to touch on them LOLOL

Could be, could be… Only time will tell us if you’re right. While the option is open, they can also skip a step and go outright to the Mursaat. Either way would please me.

I am hoping for you and for all of us it is going to be somwhere in this direction))

Ahhhh, the Mursaat. It would be so great if they made a return. I’m not entirely keen on the possibility right now, but I would be so happy if it happened one way or another.)

That’s actually one of the reasons we focused on the White Mantle for our theory, it just seems more plausible overall with politics and all. XD The Mursaat though, it would be amazing if anet managed to somehow bring them back to the limelight. XD

Blurk.6231:

Xenophanes.8360:

Dunan Atreides.5436:

Belinda is anet’s way of including seraph interests without necessarrily using Logan – who is voice by Troy Baker, who like Felicia Day, is hard to schedule for.

I’m calling it, Belinda will probably die.

Hahahaha, i’m placing my money on that horse as well. That might be the spark that’s needed for Marjory to connect the dots with her own cases. XD

Now THIS would be nice storytelling! That would mean Marjory would have to reveal more about her past and that would start a new plot line.

Hopefully tying up some loose ends in her story “The Last Straw” while she’s at it! 8D

And since this all about the theory, I’m also putting my money on the White Mantle having a role in there somewhere. 8DDD really wants Anet to touch on them LOLOL

Dunan Atreides.5436:

Belinda is anet’s way of including seraph interests without necessarrily using Logan – who is voice by Troy Baker, who like Felicia Day, is hard to schedule for.

I’m calling it, Belinda will probably die.

Hahahaha, i’m placing my money on that horse as well. That might be the spark that’s needed for Marjory to connect the dots with her own cases. XD

I’m banking on Belinda being introduced so the journey to Brisban Wildlands has a direct connection to Marjory Delaqua. XD

With her journey to Brisban full of bandits and what not, and interests in black market traders concerning Divinity’s Reach, she just might be the key to Marjory’s currently lingering story regarding “E”, the murdered boy, and the corruption in the Krytan Ministry.

Blurk.6231:

Well I must admit it is strange, but it is also classic storytelling. “Look there is some minor thing that we have to fix, lets go there…. OH MY GOOOOOD it’s a dragon!!! Run for thy lives!!!!” I am not the best writer but you get the gist. Also I dont really expect them to explain more bandit stuff really. I think they are just using this as an excuse to go beyond Brisban so we can discover Mordremoth there.

For surely! It’s a minor use of Deus Ex Machina for sure. I really think the main story line will be trying to head to Maguuma for Mordremoth related purposes really. It would just be really strange to me personally if they didn’t take the amazing opportunity to touch upon the White Mantle considering they fled to the very same jungles. XD

What do you think about the sudden inclusion of Marjory’s sister? That struck me as a very left field way of bringing the story to Brisban. However, it does suddenly create a connection between Brisban and the Delaqua, so it’s very interesting to me.

CURRENT LIVING WORLD EPILOGUE SPOILERS
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This thread on Reddit has posted some very interesting observations regarding Brisban Wildlands and the Bandits!

Our theory also got an honorable mention! <3

See the thread for yourself here if you guys are interested:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/20qc8e/spoilers_some_cool_information_from_the_epilogue/

Link to the imgur screencap gallery of observations, Credit to Yodawgz of Reddit!:
http://imgur.com/a/rp1HX

Now to start off a discussion, what piqued my interest was the so called “Sinister Triad” comprised of Nightmare Court, Bandits, and Inquest. What struck me as odd was the involvement of the bandits, really. With the Nightmare Court and Inquest being such prominent factions within the world of Tyria, why are the bandits given the same attention and included in such a noteworthy alliance?

Now bandits truly are a problem and we’ve seen the bandits ally with these forces somewhat in the past by way of dynamic events if I recall correctly, but it was never given such an interesting title as the “Sinister Triad”. Now this may be wishful thinking on my part, but I really hope this means that the bandits will reveal their true White Mantle colors.

What do you guys think? Isn’t it weird that the Living Story suddenly mentions bandits specifically? Things are looking good for our theory, but only time will tell if the White Mantle will truly return!

SPOILERS FOR TODAY’S PATCH
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SPOILERS FOR TODAY’S PATCH
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While patching my Guild Wars 2 client tonight, SkeletalHorses brought a Reddit discussion to my attention!

This one in particular:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/20q90p/ohh_spoilers/

Can’t wait to log in myself and experience the conversation first hand!

Included is a picture of part of the conversation! Credit goes to Gragx of Reddit:

MaesterTed.6571:

I can’t elaborate too much right now, as I’m on a smartphone, but I don’t think anyone mentioned this yet. The ghostly looking Root Behemoth has positively nothing to do with Mordremoth. It is a nod to the boss (and his minions) you needed to beat in GW Prophecies to gain access to Aurora Glade, and appeared in the same mission the other ghostly characters (the ghostly White Mantle and Shining Blade) are constantly recreating.

wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Henge_Guardian

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up! 8D I can’t believe I didn’t think of that possibility. Really too bad though, but I’m glad that weird thing has a purpose.

Unknownhero.6745:

Wiki exerpt…“The White Mantle retreated to the Maguuma Jungle, where they have thrived in secret, even without the guidance of their false gods, hoping to one day return.” We see a few of them hiding on the outskirts of Brisban, so if any new content leads deeper into Maguuma (maybe Magus Falls) looking for Mordremoth I wouldn’t be surprised to see more of the White Mantle.

Haven’t check on the forum for a while.

Really happy to see all your thoughts on this. Really hoping on this as a possibility. So many little facts that are fun to put together into a speculative theory.

Here’s to hoping Marjory’s Investigations really do tangentially touch on the White Mantle. XD

Sera.6539:

Xenophanes.8360:

kgptzac.8419:

I apologize for not reading through the entire thing… but I am curious, is there any direct or indirect reference to the White Mantle other than “they’ve been in the jungle” and the fact that we are getting a jungle Elder Dragon?

No direct references. Pure speculation really.

But as for indirect references, you have the title of this patch: “The Battle for Lion’s Arch” which is a call back to an old mission from GW1 with the same name where you fend off waves of White Mantle and Mursaat to restore the monarchy to Kryta.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Battle_for_Lion%27s_Arch

Huh, never knew that. Another for the trivia memory bank!

Glad to have helped your trivia bank! 8D

Gnat.9405:

Is it bad that I’m only checking this thread (and most others) just to see how Konig will blow it to smithereens?

Not bad really. I’m sure everyone has their own way of enjoying the forums. Our way is discussion and speculation.

We would totally enjoy Konig’s input actually!

It’s been recently brought to our attention that Konig had a theory about the White Mantle on guildwars2guru back in 2012.

SkeletalHorses actually stumbled upon it while looking for more White Mantle information, and it interestingly intersects with a bunch of our supporting ideas. It’s amazingly called return of the white mantle. 8D

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/37501-return-of-the-white-mantle-a-detailed-analysis-of-the-white-mantle-in-gw2/

So we’d really like to know his thoughts on our theory.

Added a more concise summary to the top of the first post in favor of people who might not have enough time to read through the entire post but would still like to engage in the discussion.

Anet is no stranger to sprinkling a bunch of red herrings everywhere in their story. I really like that they keep these options open actually. Plus it gives the world even more flavor.

But, one of the things that give us hope is the fact that they didn’t kill off Marjory.) plus during the marionette patch she brought up “E” which means she’s still invested in the events of “The Last Straw”. So here’s to hoping we touch on it in the near future and that it intersects with one of the many opportunities for White Mantle interaction.

Cenex.4089:

Also, the White Mantle and Bandit emblems look fairly similar. And considering the high bandit density in Brisban, I can definitely see the connection there.

Oh wow, I didn’t even notice that. It does look interestingly similar. The top arch from the White Mantle emblem shares similarities with the lower arch from the bandit’s, as if it just fell down or something.

And yeah, totally tons of bandits in Brisban. That Fort in Vandal’s Claim really seems like an entrance to more of Maguuma. I really hope that’s the case.

Entire theory has been moved! Much thanks for your interest and discussion guys! Anymore discussion should go there. <3

Much thanks to Blurk & Dunan Atreides for the suggestion to move to lore and story!

And thanks to Blurkmasterjay of reddit for suggesting to put this in Lore & Story in the First place!

In Closing

Now I would like to thank ANYONE who actually sat down and read through this inane rambling. If you guys have anything to contribute to the discussion, that would be amazing. Share your own theories and play nice! Speculation is great fun.

Much Love to all of you and to ArenaNet as well,

Xenocomplex & SkeletalHorses
Salt Factory (Fort Aspenwood)

Bringing It All Together, Possibilities and Questions

Now having looked at all of that, the possibility that the story might touch upon the White Mantle becomes a bit more possible.

With all of the attention forming at Maguuma, the refuge of the White Mantle remnants, we might just bump into them. With the players venturing forth there, we would be accompanied by our heroes of the hour Destiny’s Edge 2.0, or the real Destiny’s Edge, or maybe even both!

• The sprinkling of suspicion upon the Krytan Ministry, the still unknown desire of the Seraph for Heal-o-Tron, and the continuing investigations of Marjory Delaqua still beg explanations. Could this be the answer? Could this be the next Living World Season?
• Who is E? We still have no idea. All we know is that he wishes to help Marjory in her investigations. (I know it’s a stretch but the leader of the Shining Blade in GW1 is named Evennia if that can be anything)
• Does it bother any one of you that the name of the murderer of the boy’s ghost in the story of Marjory, Kraig the Bleak, shares the same naming convention as Mursaat from Guild Wars 1?
• Whatever happened to Lazarus the Dire, the last surviving Mursaat?
• What has the White Mantle been doing in the Jungle?
• Are they still trying to usurp power within Divinity’s Reach?
• Is the title “The Battle for Lion’s Arch” really a throwback to the old mission where we fight the Mursaat and White Mantle? Is this ANET subverting the story and using it to bring the White Mantle and Mursaat back to the big stage? The parallelism is amazing.

UPDATE!
The recent patch “The Battle for Lion’s Arch – Aftermath” has recently uncovered a connection between the Brisban Wildlands and Marjory Delaqua.

Marjory’s sister has been dispatched to the Brisban Wildlands to deal with black market activities that are currently affecting the economy of Divinity’s Reach.

Could this be a possible plot point that will connect to Marjory’s unresolved story “The Last Straw”? Could this be possible avenue for White Mantle banditry to finally see the light of day clearly? Only time will tell!

Summary:
So as far as theories go, to sum it all up, we might just be headed to Maguuma to bring the smackdown upon the White Mantle once again by way of Marjory Delaqua’s continuing investigations regarding the ministry and the recent allusion to suspicious politics with the Seraph and Krytan Ministry

Brisban Wildlands: Aurora’s Remains

The most interesting area to us though, is the Brisban Wildlands. The map holds interesting locations that are present in Guild Wars 1 and a fort that seems to be an entrance into the Maguuma Wastes.

Two very noteworthy locations are The Shattered Henge and Aurora’s Remains. In Guild Wars 1, these were known as the Henge of Denravi and The Aurora Glade respectively.

Let’s focus on Aurora’s Remains here. No heart quests or personal stories would naturally lead you to Aurora’s Remains. For most people, this is one of the areas that would probably be missing from your Maguuma Explorer achievement.

If you go there however, what you’ll see is very interesting. Ghosts of the White Mantle and Shining Blade, still duking it out after all these years. You can even finish an event chain that helps out Less Longbow, a Shining Blade member from GW1, to defeat Demagogue, a White Mantle Champion from GW1. All this also happens during the mission in Aurora Glade from the first game. Very cool throwback.

What’s interesting about this area though is the foliage. The foliage bears a striking resemblance to the heavily jungled area we see in the ending cinematic. Not to say that this is the area, but being in the lower hand left corner of brisban, it seems to be at least close to the Magus Falls area.

So if we investigate Mordremoth’s awakening, could it be a possibility that we would be passing areas like this? Areas with White Mantle and Shining Blade history? Could more White Mantle remnants be hiding in the deeper portions of the Jungle? The Wastes?

EDIT: It has been brought to our attention that the italicized observations allude to a boss and it’s minions that you need to dispatch in order to gain access to the Aurora Glade mission in GW1. Credit goes to MaesterTed for pointing it out!

“One very interesting thing that struck us on our expedition there was very strange and very out of place. In a small area in Aurora’s Remains, above the fighting of the White Mantle and Shining Blade ghosts. There is a single monster there that doesn’t seem be seen anywhere else. A Veteran Root Behemoth. (attached is a picture)

This Veteran Root Behemoth looked exactly like your usual jungle wurm, but was transparent, spectral in nature you could say. Why does it have a special name as well? This seems to be the only occurrence of a Jungle Wurm with this name. Does it have anything to do with Mordremoth perhaps? Others have insinuated that the Great Jungle Wurm and the Summoned Husks in Caledon are also Mordremoth’s fault. Could the new Great Jungle Wurm terrorizing Bloodtide Coast have something to do with Mordremoth as well?"

UPDATE2:
Upon further investigation by SkeletalHorses, all the troops within the Brisban Wildlands area seem to have been dispatched there by Queen Jennah with the purpose of uncovering White Mantle rumors surrounding the area. After completing the Renown Hearts, the NPCs open up to you about their purpose there.

This is very interesting due to the nature of Belinda Delaqua’s mission to Brisban regarding black market trade. This could possibly intersect with the White Mantle interest there. To further tie everything together, Belinda’s involvement might just be the link we need for Marjory’s investigations to find their way to Brisban, and hopefully, the White Mantle.

Included are screenshots of various conversations with NPCs talking about White Mantle.

BloodStones, Druids, and Mantle, Oh My.

Maguuma is a treasure trove of lore from GW1. Passing by these areas might trigger a turn for the story to go back to previous enemies and plot devices.

Maguuma is home to one of the Bloodstones. A key point in the story between the White Mantle and the Shining Blade. The turning point in GW1 where you find out the Mantle is not completely innocent actually happens here.

The Jungles were also home to the Druids, a lost race of humans that transcended their bodies in favour of being one with nature. It’s actually said that some of the Druid Spirits remain in Brisban Wildlands.

The Mantle however, are our focus here. All the signs point to the White Mantle being a possible returning force in Tyria.

Mordremoth: The Coincidental Dragon

The explosion in Lion’s Arch and that caused a magical chain reaction woke it up, and the people took notice. This will probably take the story in that direction, with the involvement of the characters of our story so far.

Now the idea that we’ll be taking on another Elder Dragon very soon is a very attractive one, but would we realistically be getting there right away?

Quoting Okonomide from the Reddit Discussion:
“…But wait, what about Mordremoth? Doesn’t he seem to be the more immediate danger? Well, from what we’ve witnessed in the final cinematic, the disruption of the leylines caused Mordremoth to stir.

Does this mean he’s fully awake? Possibly. Yet there’s an equal likelihood that he might not fully surface yet. As in the case with Primordius, it might take a while for this dragon to fully rise into power. Or he could be like the rest of the dragons, who’ve fully awakened yet are relegated to the fringes of the continent: distant threats bidding their time, raising their army.

This part is mostly just my own speculation based on the behavior of the other dragons when they woke up. But it really feels like there needs to be more events first before Mordremoth becomes an immediate danger just like Zhaitan was. Again, I’m just posing this as a possibility."

Now that we know that he’s awake in Maguuma though, we would have to make our way there, just like how we made our way to Zhaitan.

This brings us to several interesting locations and possibilities.

The Thaumanova Reactor

The giant beam of light that shines outward from Lion’s Arch shares the same attributes as the one coming from the exploded Thaumanova Reactor. This might be an interesting point of interest, as they share bounds of magical energy.

Ellen Kiel was also very interested in this place, even funding research into a fractal about it. It even appears deliberately in the cinematic with the same leylines passing through it on the way to Mordremoth.

Magus Falls

The alleged resting place of Mordremoth. This place also has several points of interest. Including the much talked about Pale Tree of Malyck. Could story could take a turn there?

Politics and Banditry

Now that we have established that in the current story, there have been hints of unrest within the ruling body of Kryta, specifically Divinity’s Reach. Let’s go back to the old content, what was in there about this? How do we even know this is a real thing? Here are a few pieces of key evidence from official descriptions that point to this being a consistent problem since the beginning of Guild Wars 2.

Crime and Punishment

When you create a human character, the first chapter of your personal story is called Crime and Punishment. The story focuses on the shifty politics surrounding the human capital of Divinity’s Reach. Whether you pick Commoner, Noble, or Street Rat you would have to deal with the problems of the city regarding thieves, bandits, and corruption.

This sets up the stage for the very human problem of politics and organizations fighting for power.

The Ministry

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ministry

The legal body of Krytan Government, usually at odds with the Queen for several reasons. They make a lot of the decisions when it comes to Divinity’s Reach, one particular power being the ability to decide where Seraph are deployed.

When the King died the Ministry ruled over Divinity’s Reach as Jennah was still too young to rule. When she came into proper power, the Ministry, having become accustomed to being in power was reluctant in relinquishing their power. Another act that has them at odds is Jennah’s support for the Human and Charr Peach Treaty.

Legate Minister Caudecus Beetlestone the Wise

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Minister_Caudecus

One central figure in this whole kerfuffle is one Caudecus Beetlestone. It’s described that as Legate Minister, he holds the highest office in the Krytan Ministry and has great power over the Ministry Guard. He is basically the head of the Krytan Ministry.

In the dungeon Caudecus Manor, you end up having to deal with bandits that allegedly have dealings with Caudecus. Logan tries to arrest Caudecus at the end, but Queen Jennah in an act of shrewd politicking deemed Caudecus innocent and invited him to stay at the Castle, where his movements would be more restricted and where they can probably keep a closer eye on him. Caudecus is visibly reluctant to accept, but does so anyways.

The White Bandits

Now where is the White Mantle in all of this? Whatever happened to them anyways? In a very specific part of the human personal story, this becomes apparent.

Family Reunion: Unknown Parents

In the next chapter of the human personal story, if you had picked Unknown Parents as one of your defining characteristics. You would get to experience bandits trying to assassinate you. These bandits are what the Shining Blade reveal to be the remnants of the White Mantle who are trying to wrest power in Divinity’s Reach. They try to assassinate you because your parents were apparently spies for the throne.

We can conclude from this then that the bandits, though probably with personal motives, are within the same realm as the White Mantle. Both parties share the same desire to wrest power from the throne. This establishes a connection between the bandit gangs and the remnants of the White Mantle. With that said, would it be far off from the truth to say that White Mantle remnants, working for the same goals as the said bandits, could have ties with the Ministry? Caudecus being the central figure of suspicion here, it could be a possibility that the two are connected.

Role Reversal

The Shining Blade is now the Krytan Royalty’s Personal Guard. They are in power. The White Mantle however, are now striking from the shadows, taking pot shots at the Kingdom. This is a direct reversal of their roles from Guild Wars 1.

In Guild Wars 1, the White Mantle were the ruling body and the Shining Blade could be equated to bandits striking from the shadows, employing subterfuge to slowly dent the more powerful organization. The Shining Blade made their camps in the jungle and took pot shots at the White Mantle.

Now where are the White Mantle? When they were defeated, their remnants fled to the very same jungle where the Shining Blade once hid: The Maguuma Jungle.

Marjory Delaqua: The Last Straw

On the main site of Guild Wars 2, they publish official stories that offer a bit more flavour for the characters of their world. One of these stories, is about Marjory Delaqua and is entitled “The Last Straw”.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/marjorys-story-the-last-straw-part-1/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/marjorys-story-the-last-straw-part-2/

Marjory was originally a member of the Ministry Guard but was slowly becoming fed up with their brand of justice. She left and formed Delaqua Investigations with
Kasmeer Meade with the help of the mysterious benefactor “E”.

In the two part short story, Marjory is at ends with another member of the Ministry
Guard about the murder of a boy that she deemed unjust. The boy’s ghost appears before her and tries to explain witnessing the torture of a woman before being blasted to the Mists by a man named Kraig the Bleak. It was “E” that offered the name of the man, and eventually the funding for Delaqua Investigations.

We can glean one interesting point from this story. All is not right in the human kingdom of Kryta. The story has always mentioned that the Ministry has been at odds with the Throne. This furthers the point that there is still conflict and injustice going on in the streets of Divinity’s Reach.

There is another character that can be seen giving more hints. The ever lovable Heal-o-Tron.

Heal-o-Tron & the Seraph

Now, in the “Escape from Lion’s Arch” Heal-o-Tron is shown to have been taking up medical duties to help relieve the victims. Anyone who has stuck around the Gendarran Fields Refugee Camp have probably noticed that a couple of Seraph visit and try to apprehend Heal-o-Tron.

In the exchange, the Seraph attempt to arrest Heal-o-Tron for allegedly cooperating with Scarlet Briar. Heal-o-tron is adamant in its refusal to cooperate and mentions that the Seraph only want him for a certain reason. A reason that is abruptly cut off as Heal-o-Tron is trying to say it.

This brings about more suspicion upon the politics of Kryta. The Seraph are a separate body from the Ministry Guard. However, it is the Krytan Ministry that is in charge of the deployment of the Seraph. So we can still see a connection between them.

Was this little part of the story just added for flavour? Or is there something bigger brewing hiding under the attempted arrest of a certain little golem?

Included here is a youtube video of the said conversation:
http://youtu.be/wZZcBc_A80o?t=35s

The White Mantle Kerfuffle

In order to understand this theory more, one needs to remember the past. The Guild Wars 1 past to be exact. The White Mantle were a major faction of humans during the first game and were integral to the story. In Guild Wars 2, the White Mantle are mentioned every once in a while but are given no major importance for the main story.

There are lots of resources out there and forum posts that explain the White Mantle and the Mursaat so let’s just cover the relevant points briefly.

The White Mantle
The White Mantle were one of the main antagonists of Guild Wars 1. They were the human cult that were the tools of the bigger antagonists, the Mursaat. They ruled over Kryta and fooled the people into being sacrificed onto the bloodstones for the goals of their masters.

The Mursaat

One of the old races, also called the Unseen Ones. This race of invisible floating spellcasters were the big bad in Guild Wars 1. They were tasked with keeping the Door of Komalie closed and used the White Mantle to sacrifice those who were destined to wipe them out to power up the soul batteries that kept the Door closed.

The Shining Blade

An organization that still holds present day relevance in Guild Wars 2 as an elite guard to the Throne, the Shining Blade were royalists that were against the ways of the White Mantle. They sought to restore the monarchy to Kryta. While taking on this endeavour, they uncover the secrets of the Mursaat and the unjust sacrifices. They were based in the Maguuma Jungle, using guerrilla tactics to strike at the White Mantle from a distance.

The White Mantle were eventually defeated along with the Mursaat. The Shining Blade, during a mission called “The Battle for Lion’s Arch” (I SEE WHAT YOU DID THAR ANET), defeated waves upon waves of White Mantle and Mursaat.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Battle_for_Lion%27s_Arch
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_battle_for_lion%27s_arch

Thus they managed to displace the White Mantle and restore the monarchy to General Salma of the Shining Blade, who was now Queen. The White Mantle were now in shambles and the last surviving Mursaat, Lazarus the Dire also disappeared.

Maguuma: The Next Frontier

With the events of this current living world story, “The Battle for Lion’s Arch”, the result of Scarlet Briar’s madness resulted in the awakening of Mordremoth, the Jungle Dragon. The Breachmaker succeeded in drilling down to the magical leylines in order to somehow disrupt them.

In the Cinematic, we see the stream of energy lead past the Thaumanova Reactor, across some barren plains, then into an area of lush vegetation. Mushrooms and heavy jungle set the stage for what we see next, a set of teeth that begin to open and feed off the magic. The Teeth of Mordremoth. (Kudos to those that pointed out the Crucible of Eternity’s Subject Alpha’s skill called “The Teeth of Mordremoth” way back in the day.)

So it looks like the next area of interest we might possibly be venturing to would be the Maguuma Jungle. Magus Falls to be specific according to some sources, which they say would be the probable resting place of Mordremoth.

How does this relate in any way to the White Mantle? Wouldn’t the main story be about the Dragon? How would the White Mantle even be relevant to the story in this day and age? For that we have to look into the members of interest of “Destiny’s Edge 2.0”, Marjory Delaqua and Kasmeer Meade.

The Theory

We think that the direction the Living World is going in might result in the revisiting of old enemies. Namely, the WHITE MANTLE. Why do we think that? Now let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Let’s start by going through what has happened so far. Here’s our attempt to analyse the Living Story Season 1.

Destiny’s Edge 2.0 (B-Iconics)

Let us examine the cast of characters that have been in the spotlight for most of this Living World Season. Popularly dubbed by the community as Destiny’s Edge 2.0, this diverse group of NPCs have been the ones participating in the events as the heroes that will be remembered, an analogue for the players that can never be truly remembered in the history of Tyria.

To make things simple, let’s first follow Rox. Rox is a Gladium that’s looking for a place to belong, a warband. She has been undergoing trials in order to join Rytlock Brimstone’s warband. She’s fought the Molten Alliance, meeting Frostbite her devourer and Braham Eirsson along the way. Later she’s at the Queen’s Jubilee with Braham. After that Rytlock tells her to track and kill Tequatl to be part of the warband. She also travels to the Tower of Nightmares in Kessex Hills and meets Kasmeer and Marjory who are investigating the tower. All of them participate in the battle against the Marionette, meeting an Asuran progeny prodigy named Taimi along the way. Most recently, she’s been told by Rytlock that if she kills Scarlet, she would be let into the warband.

The most interesting part about this group is that almost all of them somehow have something to do with the members of Destiny’s Edge. Rox is becoming an avenue for Rytlock to participate tangentially in the story once more. Braham has issues regarding his mother Eir that are somehow coming to light because of the focus on him. It is mentioned that Taimi is Zojja’s apprentice. Even Logan weirdly takes part by telling Taimi she’s too young to be on the battlefield. That only leaves Caithe who actually has some history with Scarlet herself.

Now, with that said, isn’t it interesting that these new characters are trying to involve the older ones into the story? It’s as if their relationships have been tailor-made to involve the old cast even just incidentally. Now that we’re experiencing the story from the point of view of these characters, it has become apparent that they’ve become a possible avenue for the members of Destiny’s Edge to become involved once more in the bigger picture. They have after all been relegated to the side lines. So what if this is setting up a chance for them to be involved again? Only time will tell.

For now, comes the more interesting question: All the new characters including Scarlet have had a role in being the avenue to relate to older characters in order to give them fresh stories. But what about Marjory and Kasmeer? They don’t have anything to do with Destiny’s Edge. They have no old characters that relate to them to bring up like the others. From a story telling perspective, so far Marjory and Kasmeer have functioned as the sort of detective agency that pushes forward the story based on what they deduce, but is that all they have to offer?

UPDATE:
FearTheOyster has supplied us with information that connects Marjory and Kasmeer directly to Logan Thackeray. Much thanks for pointing it out! Glad to see a more substantial connection between the A-iconics and the B-iconics. This hopefully makes their supposed function, as an avenue for the A-iconics, more prevalent.

FearTheOyster.5138:

Marjory was directly hired by Logan Thackeray to investigate Theo Ashford’s assassination, and Kasmeer her assistant. That is how they get involved in the storyline, and (for a while, anyways) who they report to in regards to the storyline. Kasmeer even seems to be familiar with Logan as well, probably due to him meeting and knowing a lot of nobility.

That said, Logan’s association with Taimi is far more tenuous at best. If anything, they are just distant acquaintances.

They eventually started delivering their discoveries to Ellen Keil when things began to implicate corruption and mayhem in LA politics, of course.

Dunan Atreides.5436:

You should have posted this in the Lore and Story forum, you’d get a better response; no one would say you are overthinking it, people might actually congratulate you for being so thorough, point out a few corrections, and you might get a lore response from a Dev or two.

I feel like the living world forum is a bit too general, so a move would be beneficial for the thread – you guys would get to nerd out with fellow lore-aholics, and people will post replies and thoughts that at least will entertain your thoughts a bit more seriously and thoughtfully.

I for one am glad that there are people who are getting back into the game, and not only that, but fully exploring the lore potential of the game.

Much thanks for the advice! I might move this entire theory there upon your advice! Better to do it myself rather than waiting for help.

kgptzac.8419:

I apologize for not reading through the entire thing… but I am curious, is there any direct or indirect reference to the White Mantle other than “they’ve been in the jungle” and the fact that we are getting a jungle Elder Dragon?

No direct references. Pure speculation really.

But as for indirect references, you have the title of this patch: “The Battle for Lion’s Arch” which is a call back to an old mission from GW1 with the same name where you fend off waves of White Mantle and Mursaat to restore the monarchy to Kryta.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Battle_for_Lion%27s_Arch

Aethelbert.1497:

I believe you are overthinking it too much. But who knows?

Totes overthinking it. 8D Fun fun fun.

Blurk.6231:

It is going to take me a while to read all this but you got my attention. I like the idea. I would say while it isnt wrong to post this in the Living World forum of course, in the lore forum youll get a more in depth discussion as some heavy lore people only visit that and it is good to have their opinion on theories as they kind of know every fact about Tyria… Cough Konig Cough…

+1 for the typing this epos.

EDIT: I see you also linked it there but it is still nicer if it is also posted there in full so it can be quoted easily.

Thanks much Blurk! Sorry, haha, first time posting and all so I’m not that familiar with this kinda stuff. I’ll try to post it in full in Lore as well. Or maybe I can wait for a friendly mod that can maybe move this there?

What would the best course of action be?

EDIT: Also thanks for the +1 but what’s epos? Haha! *feels a bit noobish for asking

We have moved the theory to the Lore & Story forum!

UPDATE:
New living world developments have brought up a few things that may be related to our theory! Marjory’s sister may be an important factor and connects Delaqua Investigations directly to Brisban Wildlands, the area we pointed out! Posting here because of Living World relation, and still not completely sure where this theory belongs honestly. XDDD

Upon the advice of others, we have moved the entire theory over to the Lore & Story forum! Much thanks for your interest and time spent reading and discussing our theory! Here’s a link to the theory!

The White Mantle Return: A Theory
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/The-White-Mantle-Return-A-THEORY-SPOILERS

Much Love and we’ll see you in the Lore Forum!

Xenocomplex & SkeletalHorses
Salt Factory (Fort Aspenwood)