IF he was smart he is shattering them left and right
The mesmers #1 skill is mediocre compared to others even with the confusion as it is not consistent damage (only works if they are actively using a skill). So no…doubt this would ever happen.
Also…the phantasms have a delay in attacking. Does a rangers pet have a delay…does any other class have a delay (5s delay)?
You really need to learn the definition of what “One Shot” is.
Means you die in one shot. The thief does not One Shot someone.
Well then, it’s a good thing I didn’t mention the phrase “one shot” a single time in either of my two posts. I did mention “3 hits” however, so….
And to point out..I was talking about the thief being glass cannon not the player that died to him. Learn reading comprehension please.
Fair enough, but in your next sentence you said “he was just outplayed,” and I assumed those two consecutive sentences were connected and talking about the same player. My bad.
Also to point out…he obviously wasn’t watching his HUD or he would have seen his health drop from the initial steal or he would have known to dodge
I spec 0/0/10/30/30 on my ele, meaning the 3 hits (e.g., Steal/C&D/BS) don’t kill typically. I also carry 3 cantrips, so I almost always have at least one stunbreaker off cooldown.
That being said, I HAVE been hit with this combo in sPvP occasionally and you really don’t have a lot of time to react if it’s a good thief pulling it off (to be fair, most thieves running this spec are horrible, which is why they rely on this gimmick as a crutch to farm kills. This is also why they panic and try to run away a lot when the combo DOESN’T kill me as an Ele, they expected a free kill). More often than not, all 3 hits will land without the thief becoming visible at all (due to the lag in rendering when coming out of stealth) and will land in a second or two tops. No matter how good one is at PvP, you’ll get hit with this combo every now and again, the trick is speccing to survive it’s full force. And if you blow it up, even better.You also have to take into account how difficult that combo is to pull off consistently in high skill level play against a moving target.
Again, the backstab combo is seriously not that hard to pull off. It might be one of the easiest combo’s in the game next to Bull Rush/100B (but that one is so much easier to dodge because you can SEE the warrior, 100B is fine). If you want to talk difficult combo’s, roll an Elementalist.
I rerolled a thief after playing Ele and seeing 50% of sPvP matches being thief/mesmer just to see the other side, and yeah, it’s laughable. The backstab spec sucks and good players will either eat it, or dodge it, and then blow you up. But let’s not pretend it’s a hard combo to land somewhat consistently…Edited to add: After reading all of your responses Zachariel, it’s becoming clear that YOU likely play a thief with this spec, which is why you defend these cheese mechanics so blindly. If this is the case, grats on substituting class mechanics for any semblance of skill…
Actually I only got my thief up to lvl 49 and used him in sPVP from rank 1-10..after that it was my mesmer. I prefure the difficulty level required to play mesmer well. It fits my personal playstyle better. Didn’t like the playstyle of thief, not to mention they do not bring a lot in tPVP which is what I enjoy doing. Theives are the antisocials of the group. They tend to run alone and not play well with others as their interactions with the team are limited (specially since their rescources can take a thief out of a fight or limit their damage output to a point).
What I think would solve a lot of problems is make backstab use intiative 4-5 initiative and make steal use two initiative while giving them some toughness to make up for the trade. It would break that combo and actually increase the difficulty of pulling it off and make it actually be a finisher. It would also break the thief unless they recieved something (or actually give them some team oriented utilies that don’t get them blown up in the process of using them).
(And just to point out…no the combo is not hard to pull off if you are standing still. If you are moving around they still have to run up to you and behind you in 3-4 seconds depending on traits to do a back stab) And that signet that makes them run faster doesn’t help much when the theif is in combat
While Thieves have Init, they won't be balanced like the rest of us
in PvP
Posted by: Zachariel.5463
Just have to wait for the meta to shift away from this incredibly tedious double/triple bunkers + mesmers kitten we have now before we see how strong thieves actually are…
It’s probably not going to unless there are some major changes.
Well they are moving away from constant retaliation.
I’ve played a Mesmer throughout closed Beta, as part of the Press Beta and every stress test until launch. I’m probably pushing well over 600 hours play time and for the first time recently, having changed professions I realise just how frustrating the Elite can be.
I will add that it does have a long cast time, is prone to failing, is easily interrupted and has a really long cool down. However, any skilled mesmer will avoid all of these issues to guarantee the spell lands.
I do believe that the skill needs to change all that considered based on the fact it guarantees’ you die (against a skilled mesmer) with no ability to counter it. No other elite in the game is capable of doing this.
As much as I love Guild Wars 2, I can’t help but feel it should act much more like Polymorph. Give players the ability to move, and damage will break the moa.
Make it an incapacitate, rather than a “Haha you’re dead now!” skill.
Also that needs pointing out…rarely skilled players will utilize this skill outside of sPVP (aka 8s) as in tPVP (aka 5s) combo fields are much more needed. Also, you’ll find out that they will only use it if you are being annoying and if they have it specced currently into their hot bar. Most will run with Timewarp (TW) or Mass Invisibility (MI) specced.
@ Duel
You also might want to point out (as my reply button is broken) that the mesmers Clone and teleport are the same skill and are on (if i remember right) a 12 second CD giving the other team ample time to stomp the mesmer again. Very rarely do I have time to clone again. That only happens if someone is taking their sweet time killing me. Which is just as annoying.
“I’m not even talking about thieves. I’m talking specifically about the type of game play that condones killing someone without them being able to respond. Thieves aren’t the only ones who can pull off that kind of burst.”
This Thread and game is full of people saying they have no problem responding to the burst damage a thief or any of the classes can pull off.
YOUR problem is you think that just because YOU are not fast enough to respond to it that the game is some how flawed. YOU feel the devs should tailor the game to fit YOUR needs or that the devs some how owe YOU something.
Truth of the matter is no one owes you anything, and honestly no one gives a flying kitten what you think about hotjoin 8s. Which as already stated is not the balancing point for this game.
I for one am glad that Anet is one of the few gaming companies out there that doesn’t listen to the local minority and their cry for more “balance”. I will agree there will always be minor balance needed as the meta of the game evolves over time, but to try and defend the fact that you are simply not fast enough to respond to the burst damage in the game when there ARE already plenty of counters for it just proves that you are nothing more then a bad player crying that you can’t figure out how to play the game.
Which really does suck due to it being a really nice game. I feel bad for those that can’t and won’t try to better themselves. Even if you suck just have fun with it. All I can say to those that really just want to nerf everything because “Its too Hard” is to avoid 8s and do 5s. Much easier and you’ll learn better.
Darn reply button disappeared again…now that is annoying
Anywho….
@Swilo-
In that situation it can be sticky, but you have to realize that each of the classes has utilities that can neutralize the thief or limit the damage his cluster will be doing. I tend to run combat medic as my mesmer depending on the group I am running with as we know how each other play. I also adjust my skills on the fly before going in and getting aggro. Sometimes I’m not fast enough in switching to skills that will help with ranged targets. You also have to realize that while he is spamming cluster..he is using initiative which limits his options until he has enough back and if he specced for prolonged inititive or gain more initiative while in stealth his DPS output will be lower than someone that is pure backstab build.Steal-0 initiative
Cloak and Dagger-6 initiative
Backstab- 0 initiativeIt requires so little initiative to pull that combo off. So what do you to “neutralize” the thief?
Well it takes 3 initiative to use cluster making it not very cost effective to the thief specially if I catch him casting it and use feedback not to mention theives auto very quickly so he’ll be doing more damage to himself. He’ll need to heal up first..not to mention any initiative he wasted using cluster so he’ll need to get it back up in order to be affective (again depending if he was straight back stab build and not specced for increased initiative).
Or i COULD just bypass all that…moa the little bugger and take him out of the fight entirely for a time. But then again moa doesn’t bring anything to the group as a whole and TW does so much nice things specially in large groups. I mean you have a combo field (which counts for ethereal). Now if he came for me, keeping an eye on my health is essential and timing important as he will always ALWAYS use steal to get up close and if he specced for stealth on steal he’ll go straight for a back stab followed by cloak and dagger followed by another back stab. As soon as your health drops from the initial steal (lets face it all thieves tend to spec for mug…predictability at its best) dodge/phase shift/mirror images/decoy breaking his burst and if I decoyed well he just C/D the clone wasting 6 intitiative. Stun him using signet of domination (or use daze from clones if i’m feeling festive and to save the signet for when the daze wears off) burst his happy kitten down. What I also could have done was use distortion shatter as the don’t need to run to me making me invulnerable for up to 3 seconds and in that time that rogue could have and would have burned his entire rotation not realizign I can’t be harmed. I do enjoy doing that. Always makes me giggle when i get teh WTF message from them.
Okay but the hierarchy of importance in capping a point doesn’t really address the fact that those two classes have an easier time getting up from downed than others do. Having people beating on me and being a sitting duck also doesn’t really address the fact that these two are still harder to stomp. Its not balanced that is my point.
And for all that is good and holy..please tell where it says they get up faster than any other class. It just isn’t so. Warriors…you don’t stomp them fast enough and they get up on their own in 15 seconds. Guardians can call a sigel that (If I remember right..been a couple weeks since i play him) amplies their healing so they heal faster not to mention knocking you back. That little displacement that theives and mesmers get…is random on where it sends them. You are LUCKY if it gets you away from the group. 90% of the time…it sticks your happy kitten right smack dab in the middle of them…so when you pop out of stealth..you get to say hello to Mr. Pointy.
Okay but the hierarchy of importance in capping a point doesn’t really address the fact that those two classes have an easier time getting up from downed than others do. Having people beating on me and being a sitting duck also doesn’t really address the fact that these two are still harder to stomp. Its not balanced that is my point.
You do realize that when someone says “Its too hard”, I (and many people on the forums) picture a little child whining to his mother that “Its too hard”. Sorry come up with a better argument. That is an instant gratification excuse, and frankly…is just whiney.
From what you and many people want (from reading the posts) is for everyone to have the same skills no matter what. Sorry but that doens’t make an interesting game. Thats like telling someone to walk across the yard and calling it fun. Now if you put a moat with alligators in and tell them to get to the other side…now THAT is entertainment.
OOO or brain eating Amoebas…we can take bets on when he drops dead.
I would say something about eles..but well..they need some love so they get a hug
And while they are at it. Take away the protection buff from the aoe heal of a guardian as that is just SOOO op too and then make sure that pesky thief glows red when he calls his thiefs guild so that we know who is the real one. Its so unfair when he blends in when his little friends.
Oy vey….people are just never satisfied with what they have they always are asking for more. Not to mention you have the tools avialable to actually counter many of the classes and builds already….you just actually have to TRY…
@ Winterfell
I love watching your videos.
Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.
If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.
So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.
This is true. The amount of time you have to spend to find the final resting spot of a thief or mesmer in downed state usually ends up with them killing someone and getting back up or just plain getting away. I honestly think for thief the one tele is enough, they don’t need the smoke too or they need to nerf the dmg on there auto attack because they can put out some serious dmg from downed still. Mesmer same deal with the clone and tele. It needs to be one interrupt and something else that won’t disrupt stomp.
Its funny how they get two ways to flat out interrupt your stomp as well as cause confusion in where the hell they actually are. Then you got suckers like rng and nec with only one interrupt who are basically guaranteed to eat dirt once they drop.
You are forget that the necro has two heal skills…forget what ranger has…warrior has teh ability to get back up if you don’t down him fast enough. And that little glow ball the mesmers do…does crap damage. You do more from the confusion but it evens out. Not to mention it brings you out of stealth if you attack when you clone.
For those that are unaware…the 1 skill in downed state does damage and heals the necro…those red balls aren’t just for show.
reread i’m talking about interrupting stomp here. If you are stomping me I hit fear then I go to life steal but that lifesteal don’t stop you from walking back up and stomping me again so I will die on that second attempt.
Mes and thief have their smoke / clone and the teles which both will stop a stomp attempt so they get to interrupt two stomp attempts plus the added confusion of not knowing where they moved to which adds travel time to run to them. do you see the issue ? A heal skill is not the same as a total loss of stomp ability.
This is all in the heat of battle, it makes it very hard to down them compared to everyone else unless you just start swinging at them but this takes longer and there could be other team mates of theirs beating on you at the same time. Then thief can hit 3 targets with his auto in downed so he has a pretty high chance to rally just from that even.
You also have to decide whether stomping that player or capping that point is more important. In tPVP capping is more important. In sPVP…its a free for all with no coordination and you get more for capturing a point then you do for killing that player. Also it takes longer for a mesmer or thief to res himself than it does for you to cap a point. Just follow the clone bodies to the real one. It will have a red downed arrow above him. The clones do not.
Also to point out…you’ll have people beating on you if you are trying to stop him either way if they are around. You are a sitting duck when doing the animation for stomping.
Darn reply button disappeared again…now that is annoying
Anywho….
@Swilo-
In that situation it can be sticky, but you have to realize that each of the classes has utilities that can neutralize the thief or limit the damage his cluster will be doing. I tend to run combat medic as my mesmer depending on the group I am running with as we know how each other play. I also adjust my skills on the fly before going in and getting aggro. Sometimes I’m not fast enough in switching to skills that will help with ranged targets. You also have to realize that while he is spamming cluster..he is using initiative which limits his options until he has enough back and if he specced for prolonged inititive or gain more initiative while in stealth his DPS output will be lower than someone that is pure backstab build.
Worlds with Large Tournament Teams and large North American Population
in PvP
Posted by: Zachariel.5463
No problem. Maybe I’ll see you around in the mists. I’m usually twiddling my thumbs waiting for the que to pop.
I wish I could give you advice other than to play to at least thirty before going into pvp (allthough its a great way of figuring out which skills to unlock first as you’ll want to use your most used skills in pvp and translate it to pve so you can get used to using them and learn how to use them and in what situation).
Yes unfortunately it is a micromanage from hell situation. Also another tidbit of info…once you sick them on a target..they don’t switch targets. They stick to it like glue till it either dies or they do or you do.
Mesmers and elementalists are the two toughest classes to play due to the way they are made. many think that all they had to do is build one and win in tPVP and that just isnt’ the case. You may do well in sPVP where its just a glory fest with no real talent but in tPVP if you are unfamiliar with your class in anyway, it becomes apparent very quickly.
I had to giggle. I say try mesmer in tPVP and you’ll see how OP you are. Go ahead….I dare ya sonny.
Worlds with Large Tournament Teams and large North American Population
in PvP
Posted by: Zachariel.5463
Try Sorrows furnace. Granted I think we are a little more slanted towards WvW right now.
Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.
If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.
So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.
This is true. The amount of time you have to spend to find the final resting spot of a thief or mesmer in downed state usually ends up with them killing someone and getting back up or just plain getting away. I honestly think for thief the one tele is enough, they don’t need the smoke too or they need to nerf the dmg on there auto attack because they can put out some serious dmg from downed still. Mesmer same deal with the clone and tele. It needs to be one interrupt and something else that won’t disrupt stomp.
Its funny how they get two ways to flat out interrupt your stomp as well as cause confusion in where the hell they actually are. Then you got suckers like rng and nec with only one interrupt who are basically guaranteed to eat dirt once they drop.
You are forget that the necro has two heal skills…forget what ranger has…warrior has teh ability to get back up if you don’t down him fast enough. And that little glow ball the mesmers do…does crap damage. You do more from the confusion but it evens out. Not to mention it brings you out of stealth if you attack when you clone.
For those that are unaware…the 1 skill in downed state does damage and heals the necro…those red balls aren’t just for show.
Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.
If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.
So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.
on a funny side note:
Elementalists worlwind thingy (forget the name off the top of my head) was fighting over a point against one and had three phantasms up and he pops that and destroys all three in one go. I stop what I’m doing and call him a son of a kitten I worked hard to get those up. He laughs…I turn his kitten into a bird. We both just stand there not attacking till it ends. I end up getting taken down by a warrior that comes to help but have a fun convo with him and even got him to switch servers and join my guild. Was the most fun I’ve had in a while. Even made a friend out of it.
Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.
If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.
So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.
Whats also funny? Watching a 5v5 turn 5v4 when that entire group of 5 turn enmass to slaughter that thief. Bout the only time I use my moa. Theives tend to be like gnats..annoying till you swat them or in this case turn them into a bird so we can mop up their team. Theives built as glass cannons are not that big a threat once you lock him down for a 2 seconds. Have your DPS burst him and he’ll go splat faster than a….well you get the picture.
On on side you have SPvP.
SPvP is more team deathmatch, I play it like counter strike : insta queue, non stop map cycling …
You can still play objectives to win the map but its rarely the top priority : effort vs reward issue.
Now that you are aware of this, you see why most people play dps build in sPvP. Its not critical to hold a point.
You can still play/test defensive builds and its actually fun/challenging to survive the zerg.On the other side of the spectrum you have tPvP.
In tPvP you have to win the map to get next round, so holding a point is critical. You actually want to hold2 for the entire game. So you are tailoring your team to do that = at least 2 “bunkers” and the rest is mix of damage/support builds (roamers).Where it gets funny is that basically :
- All the qq against mesmer/rogues/warrior comes from sPvP games where their burst damage gets into the light
- All the qq against bunkers comes from tPvP where good bunkers (supported by good teamplay) rule the world.“Burst is too good but at same time bunker is too good !!”
Same deal as in other games, nerfbat is the key.Why nerfbat because you have no accurate data so its best to moderately although blindlessly nerf to please the masses . And so far they have been rather “light” on it, nerfing but not completely destroying.
Of course, player skill is never and can not be taken into account.
Forum feedback ? or ingame statistics ? both dont assess anything.That being said, I think everyone should try to enjoy the game, pick the 2-3 the class/builds you like and have fun. Rushed class balance, ie nerfing, is never good.
Also, Id like more bug fixing rather than class balance.
I think i’m in love
I actually usually only see thieves in tPVP as a SB build utilizing Theifs Guild as an elite. Bout the only build I’ve been seeing lately.
While Thieves have Init, they won't be balanced like the rest of us
in PvP
Posted by: Zachariel.5463
Exactly, they’re so over-rated by the hot join addicts. I actually don’t like playing with thiefs anymore in tpvp. Not unless they are specd into group utility, but then there’s other classes that just do group utility better than the thief.
Thiefs are are the equivilent of fizz in lol, or cannon rush in sc2. Gimmicky once worked out pretty poor.
Oh now don’t be nockin my little urchin….he does oh so well against Karthus :-). But yes I completely agree with what you are saying. They are relatively useless in organized PVP…which sPVP is anything BUT organized. Its just a bunch of people trying to get as much glory as possible with no understanding of the mechanics. It vaguely reminds me of an obese man at an all you can eat buffet. Disturbing and disgusting at the same time.
While Thieves have Init, they won't be balanced like the rest of us
in PvP
Posted by: Zachariel.5463
I post because I enjoy talking to random shmos who cry about thief, mesmer, guardian, warrior, necro, ranger….haven’t seen anyone cry about Elementalists….maybe thats next weeks flavor as this week seems to be thieves as mesmer was last week.
To answer your question…I have no main. I play all the classes. Some I enjoy more then most. And I didnt’ say i stopped playing him now did I? ;-)
They won’t balance a class around 8v8 which sPVP is. They will balance a class around 5v5 which tPVP is (and has been going on since launch). 8v8 is too chaotic with people constantly joining and leaving and no team work or unit cohesion.
If you want actually learn how to pvp in gW do tPVP, thieves are almost always a detriment to the group that they are on as they require someone to either be alone or incompetent.
While Thieves have Init, they won't be balanced like the rest of us
in PvP
Posted by: Zachariel.5463
Thiefs are pretty poor in team fights due to squishy and low hp. Correct.
Thiefs are great roamers right? Correct.
Scenario:
It’s forest in a 5v5 on forest. Red team has 4 members + mesmer. Blue team has 4 members + thief.Red send 4 mid mesmer to quarry.
Blue send 1 wf, 3 mid thief to quarry.
Thief normally would lose against an equal skilled mesmer (arguably), so would have to either a) die or b) escape to mid.
In this example the 4 have taken mid vs the 3 and the red team mesmer is collapsing mid after the victory.
You’re already on the back foot. Now you could have sent the thief mid, but more than likely he’ll just go pop. he should be roaming.
Personal opinion and all that, but unless the thief is guarateed to be winning the 1v1’s, they generally are pretty awful in team fights especially if specd roamer.
The more thiefs in your team the more detreimental to your overall sucess. I’m pretty sure the meta will change to people not using thiefs and just run 4 tanky chars + 1 mesmer looking after point.
They have been actually getting booted from tPVP lately, Been seeing a lot of requests that specifically state, no Thieves.
While Thieves have Init, they won't be balanced like the rest of us
in PvP
Posted by: Zachariel.5463
I actually hate thief. Got my to 47, played him to rank 10 in sPVP…hated the play style and most of what you have been complaining about only really works on noobs.
And if you read many of the other posts by players. You would see plenty of advice to kill a Thief. What you want is an iWin button that instantly kills them. Its called the yes button on the uninstallation confirmation screen. You win every time. Unless you forgot to back up that copy of microsoft office before you went to do a fresh instal. (face palm)
TLDR: Search button comes in handy. Use it and read with an open mind. Plenty of advice already.
To be honest…many people that want everything balanced off of 1v1 are not entirely wrong and neither are the ones that wish for it to be balanced off of 5v5. There needs to be a balance between those too. Unfortunately, you can only get so close and currently we are probably as close as it gets as if you buff one build, you have to take away from another build as if you combine both of those two strong builds and you run the possibility of overpowering that class. Its a massive headache and i do pity the poor soul that gets stuck with that job.
While Thieves have Init, they won't be balanced like the rest of us
in PvP
Posted by: Zachariel.5463
You cry a lot about thieves. Why don’t you play tPVP. You rarely see them in there if you are having issues with them. Stop making pointless whine threads as this horse has been beat to death enough. The game developers have said they won’t listen to people whining on the forums about a class. They have their own system of review that they will use. This horse has been beat to death enough. Let it rest already.
Probably Mesmer followed by Guardian. Thief is great on 8v8 though.
Bout the only time thieves are good in sPVP, as in 5v5 you have to plan around your teammates and how you can synergize with them which is what I believe they will be balancing around. 8v8 is too chaotic to balance on.
The meta is 0.5% of the playerbase
You seem to not understand what the term “meta” means.
Also LoL balanced for high end tournament play first, just like any good competitive game does.
I would agree. LoL has routinely said that they base things off of what the top players are doing as there are essentially three skill caps in LoL. Begginer, Intermediate, and Advanced. Very few champs fit into all three (cougholdevecough) so they tend to base their changes off what the top players are consistently doing.
GW2 is different where each class can potentially be in any of the three depending on what build they are going with. Granted some will always fit in at least two (thief for instance) but never all three (thief again…as most high skill players avoid the loathed back stab build as it brings nothing to the group as a whole). Each build has its draw backs and positives, but no matter what build, they have to sacrifice something to gain something.
Still not seeing an issue with staff Eles. I have yet to see any staff Ele not get gunned downed in a heart beat vs. a good player.
Have seen some good Water Staff ele’s. Was actually impressed. I underestimated them. Boy did I feel stupid afterward though.
The meta is 0.5% of the playerbase, only a foolsih epsort company would nerf and buff based on the poopsocking playerbase
LoL nerfs based on the community outcries, if you dont want this game to die then anet needs to do it too, if you are good a nerf wont matter and you will continue to be good, if you nerf thieves only the bads will leave which is fine
The way I see it is if we didnt’ have bunkers we would just have zerg fests running from point to point and maybe crossing the other team as they zerg to cap the other point. With bunkers when someone comes along trying to capture a point they will have a fight on their hands giving time for backup to arrive.
Without bunker builds, I kinda just see people running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
If you want to do well in PVP…play them all. Learn each of their weaknesses and strengths and learn to exploit both to your advantage. Best advice I can give you.
I usually use it for giggles…or to make an annoying player run away so I can get away. Bout the only time it comes in handy.
I had to laugh at some of the posts. The only time I really see moa is when trying to get a bunker off the pot or in 8s. Never really see it in 5s, as it doesn’t bring much to the table where MI or TW affects the whole group and brings much more to the table than Moa.
Think we’ve beaten that horse to death so not going to respond further to that off topic conversation. Please return to the issue at hand. As I am.
Pyrial your term “global” only shows that you came from WoW where the term started from “global cooldown”
When in reality that term was copied from previous MMOs where it was called “1 rounded”
On topic high level play the backstab build on the thief is trash and no competitive player would ever use it over pistol whip.
What you are seeing in this thread is people playing 8s and crying about the balance of the game when it is not really balanced for that type of play.
Any thief that goes that much into glass cannon is gonna get destroyed by a decent player that knows what the kitten he is doing. It is easy to predict/counter/avoid. The ONLY time you see that build is when people go pub stomping in 8s.
which brings us back to my summary of this thread in a previous post.
L2P
I have to agree. 8s and 5s are completely different as for one you have people constantly joining and leaving, You also have to take into consideration group composition as killing a player is always secondary to holding the points (although it is fun).
The thief backstab build I’ve seen to be sub par in tPVP and are usually raged against for being useless in team chat. Especially since they are single target DPS only and bring nothing to the group as a whole to benefit the group in any way. They tend to be a wild card that usually doesn’t play in the teams favor.
…One shotting anyone, no matter which profession should NEVER be an acceptable form of game play…
Well technically this isn’t true, my guardian has taken full combos from glass cannon thieves (which is my own fault for not using stunbreak > knockback) and easily lived to kill them. I think the point you are trying to get at is that thieves alone make every other burst build obsolete; not every build ever.
First and foremost, I meant what I said. Please don’t come on here and misrepresent my thoughts. Secondly, if you lived through it you weren’t globaled/one shot…
And neither were you. You were hit twice or more with a skill that you only have five seconds (if you specced for increase stealth time lowering your damage output) to pull off each time. What were you doing? Dancing?
Globaled/One shot…My position is and will continue to be that NO profession should be able to global/one shot another. If you get globaled, you don’t even have time to dance. Sorry it’s too confusing for you.
Learn the meaning of One Shot. You and no one in this game was oneshotted due to a theifs skills in sPVP.
In the context of mmo pvp, globaled and one shot are synonymous. I can understand if this is your first rodeo. I won’t hold it against you.
Then use a different term for what you are actually trying to imply…you were nuked..plane and simple..not one shotted. One shotted means he killed you with one hit…nuked means he blew your kitten up. Plain and simple.
EDIT: Someone call PETA
EDIT: And just an fyi..in every game i’ve played (MMO, RPG, and FPS) Global pertains to a map wide skill….and unless I’m missing something..no one has one of those. So your word choice is poor at best.I understand that this is your first mmo and thus you don’t know that globaling and one shotting are virtually identical. Let this be your first lesson, and to boot I’m not the OP…
Then choose a different word to phrase what you are trying to mean..use a thesaurus if you have to as no one in this game has a global/one shot ability.
And do try to stay on topic as this is a constructive topic with some good conversation. If you have nothing adequate to add other than attacking me, then please leave this discussion to the adults.
I don’t have to choose a different word, in the mmo genre globaling is exactly what we are describing. Just because you are uneducated about the term doesn’t mean I have to dumb down the word I am using.
I love also how you are the one who is crying about staying on topic when it was you who was the instigator.
Hmm…first time in all the 10 years i’ve been playing games that i’ve heard it used in that instance. New one for me.
I was referring you to attacking me. Saying I’m uneducated is a personal attack and is not needed in polite discussion.
You’re the least polite person in this discussion. Go back and read what you wrote to everyone, you come off as a jerk and now you’re crying foul?
Actually I tend to be very polite. I can also call you an idiot without even saying and make it sound like a compliment but I would hate to resort to using big words you may have trouble comprehending. Now that was being rude.
There’s nothing you can say that I won’t understand; however you on the other hand try to speak on position of authority about a term you don’t even know…
You know it as one thing, I know it as another. Same meaning, different word.
Except you didn’t know the word and tried to tell me it didn’t mean what it mean. Ignorance at its finest.
Depends on what context you are referring to.
That doens’t even make sense. What I said was fact, it is not debatable. You didn’t know what the word meant, you admitted that later on. You tried to tell me it didn’t mean what it meant. That is pure ignorance.
Please refer to Teulux post as he summed that up quite nicely, and from his stand point I understand perfectly what you are talking about in the context you are trying to relay. Doesn’t quite work in this situation in my opinion but I get what you are trying to say.
…One shotting anyone, no matter which profession should NEVER be an acceptable form of game play…
Well technically this isn’t true, my guardian has taken full combos from glass cannon thieves (which is my own fault for not using stunbreak > knockback) and easily lived to kill them. I think the point you are trying to get at is that thieves alone make every other burst build obsolete; not every build ever.
First and foremost, I meant what I said. Please don’t come on here and misrepresent my thoughts. Secondly, if you lived through it you weren’t globaled/one shot…
And neither were you. You were hit twice or more with a skill that you only have five seconds (if you specced for increase stealth time lowering your damage output) to pull off each time. What were you doing? Dancing?
Globaled/One shot…My position is and will continue to be that NO profession should be able to global/one shot another. If you get globaled, you don’t even have time to dance. Sorry it’s too confusing for you.
Learn the meaning of One Shot. You and no one in this game was oneshotted due to a theifs skills in sPVP.
In the context of mmo pvp, globaled and one shot are synonymous. I can understand if this is your first rodeo. I won’t hold it against you.
Then use a different term for what you are actually trying to imply…you were nuked..plane and simple..not one shotted. One shotted means he killed you with one hit…nuked means he blew your kitten up. Plain and simple.
EDIT: Someone call PETA
EDIT: And just an fyi..in every game i’ve played (MMO, RPG, and FPS) Global pertains to a map wide skill….and unless I’m missing something..no one has one of those. So your word choice is poor at best.I understand that this is your first mmo and thus you don’t know that globaling and one shotting are virtually identical. Let this be your first lesson, and to boot I’m not the OP…
Then choose a different word to phrase what you are trying to mean..use a thesaurus if you have to as no one in this game has a global/one shot ability.
And do try to stay on topic as this is a constructive topic with some good conversation. If you have nothing adequate to add other than attacking me, then please leave this discussion to the adults.
I don’t have to choose a different word, in the mmo genre globaling is exactly what we are describing. Just because you are uneducated about the term doesn’t mean I have to dumb down the word I am using.
I love also how you are the one who is crying about staying on topic when it was you who was the instigator.
Hmm…first time in all the 10 years i’ve been playing games that i’ve heard it used in that instance. New one for me.
I was referring you to attacking me. Saying I’m uneducated is a personal attack and is not needed in polite discussion.
You’re the least polite person in this discussion. Go back and read what you wrote to everyone, you come off as a jerk and now you’re crying foul?
Actually I tend to be very polite. I can also call you an idiot without even saying and make it sound like a compliment but I would hate to resort to using big words you may have trouble comprehending. Now that was being rude.
There’s nothing you can say that I won’t understand; however you on the other hand try to speak on position of authority about a term you don’t even know…
You know it as one thing, I know it as another. Same meaning, different word.
Except you didn’t know the word and tried to tell me it didn’t mean what it mean. Ignorance at its finest.
Depends on what context you are referring to.
…One shotting anyone, no matter which profession should NEVER be an acceptable form of game play…
Well technically this isn’t true, my guardian has taken full combos from glass cannon thieves (which is my own fault for not using stunbreak > knockback) and easily lived to kill them. I think the point you are trying to get at is that thieves alone make every other burst build obsolete; not every build ever.
First and foremost, I meant what I said. Please don’t come on here and misrepresent my thoughts. Secondly, if you lived through it you weren’t globaled/one shot…
And neither were you. You were hit twice or more with a skill that you only have five seconds (if you specced for increase stealth time lowering your damage output) to pull off each time. What were you doing? Dancing?
Globaled/One shot…My position is and will continue to be that NO profession should be able to global/one shot another. If you get globaled, you don’t even have time to dance. Sorry it’s too confusing for you.
Learn the meaning of One Shot. You and no one in this game was oneshotted due to a theifs skills in sPVP.
In the context of mmo pvp, globaled and one shot are synonymous. I can understand if this is your first rodeo. I won’t hold it against you.
Then use a different term for what you are actually trying to imply…you were nuked..plane and simple..not one shotted. One shotted means he killed you with one hit…nuked means he blew your kitten up. Plain and simple.
EDIT: Someone call PETA
EDIT: And just an fyi..in every game i’ve played (MMO, RPG, and FPS) Global pertains to a map wide skill….and unless I’m missing something..no one has one of those. So your word choice is poor at best.I understand that this is your first mmo and thus you don’t know that globaling and one shotting are virtually identical. Let this be your first lesson, and to boot I’m not the OP…
Then choose a different word to phrase what you are trying to mean..use a thesaurus if you have to as no one in this game has a global/one shot ability.
And do try to stay on topic as this is a constructive topic with some good conversation. If you have nothing adequate to add other than attacking me, then please leave this discussion to the adults.
I don’t have to choose a different word, in the mmo genre globaling is exactly what we are describing. Just because you are uneducated about the term doesn’t mean I have to dumb down the word I am using.
I love also how you are the one who is crying about staying on topic when it was you who was the instigator.
Hmm…first time in all the 10 years i’ve been playing games that i’ve heard it used in that instance. New one for me.
I was referring you to attacking me. Saying I’m uneducated is a personal attack and is not needed in polite discussion.
You’re the least polite person in this discussion. Go back and read what you wrote to everyone, you come off as a jerk and now you’re crying foul?
Actually I tend to be very polite. I can also call you an idiot without even saying and make it sound like a compliment but I would hate to resort to using big words you may have trouble comprehending. Now that was being rude.
There’s nothing you can say that I won’t understand; however you on the other hand try to speak on position of authority about a term you don’t even know…
You know it as one thing, I know it as another. Same meaning, different word.
…One shotting anyone, no matter which profession should NEVER be an acceptable form of game play…
Well technically this isn’t true, my guardian has taken full combos from glass cannon thieves (which is my own fault for not using stunbreak > knockback) and easily lived to kill them. I think the point you are trying to get at is that thieves alone make every other burst build obsolete; not every build ever.
First and foremost, I meant what I said. Please don’t come on here and misrepresent my thoughts. Secondly, if you lived through it you weren’t globaled/one shot…
And neither were you. You were hit twice or more with a skill that you only have five seconds (if you specced for increase stealth time lowering your damage output) to pull off each time. What were you doing? Dancing?
Globaled/One shot…My position is and will continue to be that NO profession should be able to global/one shot another. If you get globaled, you don’t even have time to dance. Sorry it’s too confusing for you.
Learn the meaning of One Shot. You and no one in this game was oneshotted due to a theifs skills in sPVP.
In the context of mmo pvp, globaled and one shot are synonymous. I can understand if this is your first rodeo. I won’t hold it against you.
Then use a different term for what you are actually trying to imply…you were nuked..plane and simple..not one shotted. One shotted means he killed you with one hit…nuked means he blew your kitten up. Plain and simple.
EDIT: Someone call PETA
EDIT: And just an fyi..in every game i’ve played (MMO, RPG, and FPS) Global pertains to a map wide skill….and unless I’m missing something..no one has one of those. So your word choice is poor at best.I understand that this is your first mmo and thus you don’t know that globaling and one shotting are virtually identical. Let this be your first lesson, and to boot I’m not the OP…
Then choose a different word to phrase what you are trying to mean..use a thesaurus if you have to as no one in this game has a global/one shot ability.
And do try to stay on topic as this is a constructive topic with some good conversation. If you have nothing adequate to add other than attacking me, then please leave this discussion to the adults.
I don’t have to choose a different word, in the mmo genre globaling is exactly what we are describing. Just because you are uneducated about the term doesn’t mean I have to dumb down the word I am using.
I love also how you are the one who is crying about staying on topic when it was you who was the instigator.
Hmm…first time in all the 10 years i’ve been playing games that i’ve heard it used in that instance. New one for me.
I was referring you to attacking me. Saying I’m uneducated is a personal attack and is not needed in polite discussion.
You’re the least polite person in this discussion. Go back and read what you wrote to everyone, you come off as a jerk and now you’re crying foul?
Actually I tend to be very polite. I can also call you an idiot without even saying and make it sound like a compliment but I would hate to resort to using big words you may have trouble comprehending. Now that was being rude.
stun breakers…they work wonders.
…One shotting anyone, no matter which profession should NEVER be an acceptable form of game play…
Well technically this isn’t true, my guardian has taken full combos from glass cannon thieves (which is my own fault for not using stunbreak > knockback) and easily lived to kill them. I think the point you are trying to get at is that thieves alone make every other burst build obsolete; not every build ever.
First and foremost, I meant what I said. Please don’t come on here and misrepresent my thoughts. Secondly, if you lived through it you weren’t globaled/one shot…
And neither were you. You were hit twice or more with a skill that you only have five seconds (if you specced for increase stealth time lowering your damage output) to pull off each time. What were you doing? Dancing?
Globaled/One shot…My position is and will continue to be that NO profession should be able to global/one shot another. If you get globaled, you don’t even have time to dance. Sorry it’s too confusing for you.
Learn the meaning of One Shot. You and no one in this game was oneshotted due to a theifs skills in sPVP.
In the context of mmo pvp, globaled and one shot are synonymous. I can understand if this is your first rodeo. I won’t hold it against you.
Then use a different term for what you are actually trying to imply…you were nuked..plane and simple..not one shotted. One shotted means he killed you with one hit…nuked means he blew your kitten up. Plain and simple.
EDIT: Someone call PETA
EDIT: And just an fyi..in every game i’ve played (MMO, RPG, and FPS) Global pertains to a map wide skill….and unless I’m missing something..no one has one of those. So your word choice is poor at best.I understand that this is your first mmo and thus you don’t know that globaling and one shotting are virtually identical. Let this be your first lesson, and to boot I’m not the OP…
Then choose a different word to phrase what you are trying to mean..use a thesaurus if you have to as no one in this game has a global/one shot ability.
And do try to stay on topic as this is a constructive topic with some good conversation. If you have nothing adequate to add other than attacking me, then please leave this discussion to the adults.
I don’t have to choose a different word, in the mmo genre globaling is exactly what we are describing. Just because you are uneducated about the term doesn’t mean I have to dumb down the word I am using.
I love also how you are the one who is crying about staying on topic when it was you who was the instigator.
Hmm…first time in all the 10 years i’ve been playing games that i’ve heard it used in that instance. New one for me.
I was referring you to attacking me. Saying I’m uneducated is a personal attack and is not needed in polite discussion.
…One shotting anyone, no matter which profession should NEVER be an acceptable form of game play…
Well technically this isn’t true, my guardian has taken full combos from glass cannon thieves (which is my own fault for not using stunbreak > knockback) and easily lived to kill them. I think the point you are trying to get at is that thieves alone make every other burst build obsolete; not every build ever.
First and foremost, I meant what I said. Please don’t come on here and misrepresent my thoughts. Secondly, if you lived through it you weren’t globaled/one shot…
And neither were you. You were hit twice or more with a skill that you only have five seconds (if you specced for increase stealth time lowering your damage output) to pull off each time. What were you doing? Dancing?
Globaled/One shot…My position is and will continue to be that NO profession should be able to global/one shot another. If you get globaled, you don’t even have time to dance. Sorry it’s too confusing for you.
Learn the meaning of One Shot. You and no one in this game was oneshotted due to a theifs skills in sPVP.
In the context of mmo pvp, globaled and one shot are synonymous. I can understand if this is your first rodeo. I won’t hold it against you.
Then use a different term for what you are actually trying to imply…you were nuked..plane and simple..not one shotted. One shotted means he killed you with one hit…nuked means he blew your kitten up. Plain and simple.
EDIT: Someone call PETA
EDIT: And just an fyi..in every game i’ve played (MMO, RPG, and FPS) Global pertains to a map wide skill….and unless I’m missing something..no one has one of those. So your word choice is poor at best.I understand that this is your first mmo and thus you don’t know that globaling and one shotting are virtually identical. Let this be your first lesson, and to boot I’m not the OP…
Then choose a different word to phrase what you are trying to mean..use a thesaurus if you have to as no one in this game has a global/one shot ability.
And do try to stay on topic as this is a constructive topic with some good conversation. If you have nothing adequate to add other than attacking me, then please leave this discussion to the adults.
The ONLY issue I have is that reward should be proportional to skill-cap.
And it works, kinda:
Warriors are braindead in design (and most of us that WANT to play warriors hate it) but they are also complete kitten in high rank tourney play.Eles have a very high skill cap, and seem very UP until you breach that threshold. Once the skill threshold has been made though they are gamechangers and have a solid spot (in a couple of roles) on a top tier tourney team.
Thieves however have an even more braindead skill threshold than warriors do yet the reward is insanely good for how mind numbingly simple they are.
And before you say it I paid for the extra character slots so that I could have one of each class to play and learn/rotate through. My thief is absolutely built for backstab and it’s absolutely rediculously potent for how forest gump simple it is to play.
You also have to take into account how difficult that combo is to pull off consistently in high skill level play against a moving target. Keeping you out of stealth is the easy part and hard part. Thieves are predictable. You can’t use your main attack (back stab in this instance) if you are not in stealth. Locking you down for a few seconds is usually long enough to kill a theif who is based solely off of back stab as they are like tissue paper…one hard blow and you tear right through them.