Guild Wars 2

WvW shutdown incoming soon. Too many resources on it, make every1 work on new expansion

4/16 legendaries in 1 expansion. 3 more expansions to go.

Seriously, I paid for an unfinished product and you said you would finish it, instead I see you releasing new gem store items every 2 weeks (gliders, outfits ….). Now you tell me that you won’t finish (at least in a reasonable amount of time) what you promised to deliver.

I guess marketing for next expansion will be:
– New legendaries
– New WvW
– More maps, hours of fun
– New specializations
– New skins (YAYY!)

From reddit, someone told me to post it here. My thoughts:

This is not yet another post of complaining about WvW, I know it is being rebuilt (some of the features). It is instead to emphasize the problem of the WvW in the scoring system and propose some ways to improve it.
I may start this post sayign that I don’t know how Anet is going to change this when it comes, this ideas might be in their minds already or around on other posts. Decided to make this post when taking a look into the API.
Basically, was making some statistics on servers and trying to get some graphs to myself. Since today is reset day is the day when I take a look on the matchup that is ending and taking a look on what happened.
I am talking in this case of a specific Matchup (2-3 in EU)(might be another as well, just this one since this is the most remarcable one). This matchup faces Piken Square (Blue) vs Elona Reach (Green) vs Far Shiverpeaks (Red)
First of all. Taking a look at score it currently says (409.863 for Piken, 153.580 for Far Shiverpeaks and 287.635 for Elona Reach). There is obviously a big difference in points, and having a little knowleadge about the Matchup you will see that FSP had few people during the week, while Piken and Elona Reach had way more.
Until now everything seems normal right? A server gets beaten by another one (or by other two).
Well, now let’s check at leaderboard. FSP lost 30k points in overall leaderboard while Piken won 40k. How is this possible? In a single week? Well in this case FSP lost a lot of commanders and players so it might be normal that Piken took this advantage,a s well as ER.
Finally checking at Kills and Deaths from API tells:
….
“deaths”: {
“red”: 15532,
“blue”: 20691,
“green”: 18054
},

“kills”: {
“red”: 15091,
“blue”: 25482,
“green”: 11509
},
….
What we can see here is that red server (FSP) killed more than Green one (ER) and died less than them. This means that even with PPK they are 150k behind the second server, having played better than them during the week fight wise.
What this exposes is that PPK means nothing (which we knew) and after talking with many people, from many servers and mentalities in WvW, I will expose what I think.
Scoring system is broken. Something we already knew. Night crews will break the Matchup since some servers will have players from antoher timezones (for the case of EU, might have oceanic/American players that might have a group at night). This makes night cap (understanding night cap as night for EU in this case) count much more than daily points. Let’s say having a good tick (for example 300 tick against 180 and 170) for 4 hours when it’s prime time, which should be hard to achieve, means nothing when other server can have a 50 man group during night and yours have 15 overall. Why playing and making an effort during day when you know other server will have more people and PPT more during night? Lost effort
PPT is the only way to score. System encourages servers to avoid fighting and go free PPT everywhere. If you fight, you are not taking points from structures. Taking a look at scores and knowing 1 kill = 1 point, PPK system means in a 340k average matchup roughly a 2-5% of the final score. Avoiding fights and go spamming 1 on structures to take them is better for winning the matchup. This makes some servers avoid any kind of fight and leave a map if they know another blob is in the same map.
So with previous premises, what I would suggest to balance scoring is the following (I don’t know how to solve population imbalance tho, maybe 1 day matchups or merge some severs, no idea really on this)
Make the score be calculated not only for pure PPT points. Add some variables to the thing. For example (will need some changes to balance them):
Server gets points for position in killing people from other servers. In this case I exposed before server Blue will have more than Red, which will have more than Green
Server that dies the less gets more points. Red gets more points than Green that will take more points than Blue.
Server that gets a better Kill/Death ratio gets more points: Blue (25482/20691=1.23) gets more points than Red (15091/15532=0.97) that gets more than Green (11509/18054=0.64).
Server that gets mroe PPT points gets more points. In this case Blue > Green > Red
Add some more things to the formula. This way, it encourages all kind of game styles, makes better for servers with less population (which probbably will die less for example) and makes the thing a bit more balanced, even in a Matchup where 1 server scores 250k more points than last server in the matchup.

Nightcap (as a term, not as a despective word or anything like that) is somethign we make reference when one server has way more coverage than other(s) in the same matchup (usually happens at nights because of players from different timezones but can be applied to mornings for example).

After this is understood, there is another thing that must be taken into account, there is no such an only NA or EU timezone. In NA, with NA players there should not be a problem, since more or less everyone would have the same peaks of coverage at the same hours. Then it comes with people from other timezones that play in the NA servers (as lots of people mentioned, mostly Oceanic players). Then it comes EU, where more or less everyone should have the same peak hours as well (will explain some differences later, but mostly should be the same).

Problem shows up firstly when there is no enough population even at prime time
For example, server A has 3 queues, server B has 2 and server C has 1, obviously server A will have more chances to get more points during day, but server B and C will probably be able to maintain a decent tick during the day. Night comes and prime time is off, server A still has a queue or at least 2 groups running, server B and C will have one as well or none. Time goes on, server A still has a group of 40 people while server B and C has 10-15. Server A will start ticking 400+ in half an hour, after the flipped all the possible keeps and towers in borderlands while server B or C can either try to defend (they will not be able and will be losing time and so tick points) or go to cap behind server A (that is mostly what will happen).

This scenario happens one week, two weeks… a month… a year…. 3 years. Also there is less people that play WvW everyday since lots of people left, leaving servers even more unbalanced. Servers like B and C will not even try to fight for PPT during the day and prime time since they know that, once they go to sleep, server A will take a lead of 15-20k by the next morning.

People don’t care about “the goal” of the gamemode since it’s useless (even if you win, you get 2 more chests with blues and greens YAY!!!!), why should fight for points? Simply log on, have some fights in the only scenario that allows you to do 80vs80vs80 and log off. Server with most coverage will always win the Matchup, no matter what.

Apart from the explanation above, have to clarify that in EU it’s a bit different since national servers will have advantage some weeks due to national holidays for example, that will make impossible for other servers to catch up. This already happened with all the 3 regions here in EU more than once. I know this is hard to consider but will also have an impact.

To try to balance things a bit I would suggest some of the previous mentioned in this and other posts about time frame matchups (3-5 hours each), alliance system (which is supposed to be in developement) etc. But again, there is something in the gamemode that is a bit limiting. There are many types of players in the gamemode (ones that want to PPT, those taht want to fight, to guild fight etc), but all of them are forced to go PPT if they want to win the matchup for the server.

Why not add some kind of scoring system that allows to take into consideration some other things in the game, such as the server with the best Kill/Death ratio (you can see in the API for NA already).
Why not do the same for the server that keeps structures the most time (server A had tower X for 5 days while B and C had it for 1 day each, server A gets more points for this, and so with the other structures in all the maps), the server that builds the less sieges during the week… etc etc. There are many ways that scoring system can be vitamined, instead of the boring, not fair PPT scoring alone (which I don’t say will have to count as the most, but having more things into consideration rather than only 1)

I won’t quote because it will take a while trying to find the spot where it was mentioned but while I agree with 90% I disagree on a couple points.

You are all the time making points of what could avoid forming blobs without other blob to fight (aka, discouraging PVD) which I agree but then you make it a point when you say things like “siege must have some placements where attackers can’t hit it because there is a blob attacking and few ppl defending”. I disagree with this in case they don’t balance things in the gamemode. For example, having 6-7 acs on aspots where they can’t be hit and there is a blob inside a keep, there will be no way for the attacker to enter it, simply because AC’s can melt players and then there will sitll be a blob inside.

Having a 50 man aoe cap on AC’s and hurting a lot, even more if they fire all together it’s not any kind of balance (or any kind of skill for any player/server since it only takes 1 guy spamming 1234 on a certain surface to use). My suggestion to avoid this is some of the following:
a) Make acs much more expensive, so it’s harder to build (this won’t prevent siegeing T3 but will make much harder to do so, at least make sieging a thing)
b) Nerf AOE cap of ACS, make it 10-15 so even if they do the same damage, they won’t hurt the 80% of the blob as they are doing atm
c) Nerf damage of AC, make it a 25% of its current value
d) More strict limit on the number of acs that can be placed within a range, and of course, investigate on this and allow to place a reasonable amount of them covering the same place (reasonable amount of acs means reasonable amout of damage dealt by them, not only the quantity of them)

Yesterday while raiding new borderland, it was everythign fine (slight lag when fighting another guild). Then the middle event started, it was instantly 5 sec spikelag for everyone (we were scrimming a guild and we had to whisper eachother to stop because it was general thing).

Lag continued for the whole event, rubberbanding here and there, 0.5-2 sec delay on skills etc. At the end, event finished (other guild went to finish it to check if lag dissappeared) and guess what?? Lag instantly dissapeared.

So… how can be this happening? how can an event, not even the fact that there is people doing it but the event itself making a whole map (3 servers) lag all the time?

What I don’t really like is the way they always release content. As I can understand some people may be hyped about the jungle/new PVE content, I can also understand another points of view that are not in the same direction.

For example, WvW and PvP players. I don’t know but I think no one said that Hero Points will be obtained in PvP (or if you need them to play specialization in PvP). In that case PvP players will be forced to play PVE or WvW to get them.

Then in the case of PVE and WvW, there is always a big difference and unbalance between the rewards in between these 2. In PVE, you are going to get 10 Hero Points per each you get in the jungle. On the other hand in WvW you will be getting 1 by 1, so it will make much much slower getting hero points in WvW than in PVE. My complain is that, why is there always much more rewardings (in all kind of things) in PVE that in another game modes? Why is always PVE above everything else?

Yes, the reset time needs to be moved… No enough people on Friday… Even though we got a MU that was 0,17% chances to get, tehre is 210 man queueing overall (in all 4 maps).

Edit: To more info, we are 4th in leaderboard, we fighting 11th and 12th in Tier 4 match, still 200+ people queueing

I hope they do something about this, more even after watchign all the people complaining and putting their oppinions. The last time a thread like this was made, was to complain about Golem Week after it was announced, the result, as all of you already know was a complete disaster, they didn’t do anythign about it even after it started (not even said a single word about it) and I think, for the vast majority of people was the worst WvW week of all the year (because of bugs, kittened golem rushes etc).

This time it will happen the same, they will not do anything, reset will still be at the same time. It will be bad, by the time they pretend to put the reset, only people that have nothign to do will be able to play (mostly people still studying and so) and some eople, as they already stated (as for example Oceanic players) will not have a chance to get the reset if not getting up super early (or not sleeping at all). Really think (as the majority of you) that keeping the reset at the same hours is the propper thing to do, but you know… In this game, and even more in this Game mode, we have little to say

I don’t know what is your approach to the following but I think you may consider this:

As it was showed the target in the squad made everyone inside see it. This means 50 people will see same target and all the AoE will prioritize the target (I mean, you put necro wells where the cap is 5 people per pulse, then the target if above the well will take damage in every pulse). This, in terms of WvW means 50 people will focus one guy, taht could be enemy commander and this guy will suffer from all skills, being them single or multiple target.

Even though if things change, if target starts to be bounded only for the subgroup, the fact that massive subgroups are allowed will mean the same, having all people in same subgroup will have the same effect as before.

Commander focus is a problem already, with current 5 people parties and allowing much more people see same tag (and by so prioritizing damage on target on non single target enemies) will make the problem even bigger

Zachary Stiers.1879:

An upcoming patch will contain changes to how line of sight is calculate for arrow carts. Some of the arrow cart skills ignored line of sight and the rest were too forgiving with their line of sight calculations. Both of these issues allowed players with modified cameras to shoot an arrow cart from behind walls to locations they shouldn’t have even been able to see, much less fire at. In the future arrow cart skills will use a special type of line of sight checking specifically designed to reduce this problem while still making the allowed target areas feel reasonable.

On the other hand, you should balance the arrow cart cap or at least damage. In a tower, there is no way to attack if there will be 6 arrowcarts and with yours you cant even hit them. Most servers usually bunker inside upgraded structures with full blobs, that made even with ac max POV and camera height hard to take them due to constant pressure on the attacker arrowcarts.

Now if server X builds 8 arrowcarts covering the same area, there will be no way for attackers not even to get near gates or walls or whatever since the pressure is ridiculous (in my opinion, arrowcarts should deal less damage than they actually do).

Maybe reduce the arrowcart cap (leave it in a way you can use only 4-5 per “area” to cover) or its damage. If you want to try this by yourself, come any kitten matchup in EU and you will see what the ac’s are, then you can balance with your assumptions.

CETheLucid.3964:

Last I checked, WvW is even more populated than usual with folks playing with golems, not less. Certainly nothing that indicates people hate the event.

I can tell you, that what is usually a 4 map queue afternoon on Saturday, became 1 map queue afternoon, that indicates less people playing. No one commanded home bl whole morning/afternoon when there are usually 2-3 commanders all morning long.

There was massive queues on reset of course, WvW and PVE people had to test it, after that, the PVE player and WvW players tried it out.

After 1-2 hours, it was enough for most of WvW players, as you can check in forums, reddit, in-game etc…. People just logged out or went do something else. Lots of players will take a week off this game because of the event

Now, for the rest of the event, some people may stay of course, a lot of PVE players are still about to try it out and see “Oh, this WvW is really awesome, I take a lot of karma, I can level toons and I can get loot by spamming one, let’s add to the train”.

WvW players asked for changes in WvW, for real changes, competitive ones. Scoring system is broken, populations in maps are the main reason of all the problems, lots of bugs still there, siege damage is unbalanced… But yes, I guess it’s better to make PVE players come into WvW, give a big middle finger to WvW players for a week and “don’t worry, it’s just a week”.

Jski.6180:

antonbalboa.7280:

TJgalon.5012:

It just a week long event, it not permeninte, why not just enjoy the roller coaster for the week, it not the end of the world?

It’s because the fact that people already predicted this before it even happened, it’s because it’s every time more frustrating how Anet just cares about their PVE playerbase and new players and doesn’t take any attention to the veteran playerbase, or a game mode as it is WvW, that has such loyal players and after all, makes the name of the game you are playing “Guild Wars”. Maybe it should be named “Spam Wars” to be more fitted to the actual game

To me and a lot of wvw players like open field fighting and not really a big fan of every thing made of metal vs your every thing is paper. If every thing is paper you need bodys to def and not just walls.

Any way its a week even don’t play if you truly do not like it. Some ppl would say they want golmes only and to do away with AC treb cats maybe this is a means of testing golems only with out removing other sieges.

The problem is that you lack the defenders, because it is useless to defend

The exploit has been there for ages, now with the 100% damage improvement is even worse. Of course it is broken, as a lot of other bugs/things this game has and still, they prefer to make a “golem week” instead of fixing what they should have fixed for ages

TJgalon.5012:

It just a week long event, it not permeninte, why not just enjoy the roller coaster for the week, it not the end of the world?

It’s because the fact that people already predicted this before it even happened, it’s because it’s every time more frustrating how Anet just cares about their PVE playerbase and new players and doesn’t take any attention to the veteran playerbase, or a game mode as it is WvW, that has such loyal players and after all, makes the name of the game you are playing “Guild Wars”. Maybe it should be named “Spam Wars” to be more fitted to the actual game

Well, the fact is that when I play I look for fights, in both public tag or guild raid, if there are no fights I attack a keep so people come defend and fight. PPT wars are dead since year 1 of the game, it is just ridiculous to have a blob that can take any keep in 1 min since they reach outer and to see all servers blobs run in circles, taking karma and spamming 1

It’s easy, new camera allows for example to destroy all the sige inside north Garrison from the north outer, all the Acs, trebuchets, ballistas, catapults… whatever. Max field of View and max height will do the trick, that’s not hacking or anything, just using what anet made possible in game.

Garrison is just an example, since camera changes came, you can kill anything with acs from outside, I have been reported and recorded on video by doing it, just because people don’t know how to do it.

TJgalon.5012:

Except a new map and a bunch of new updates are coming soon. They are being worked on, and released when ever. For now we get a fun event for the week.

Define “fun”. Run in circles, spam1 and get structures? 7 days long?

This was said already 2 weeks ago when Patch notes came out, people already predicted this and it’s happening.

It’s constructive to say they could have tested this on EOTM, or just limit the duration not to 7 days. There is nothing good to say, everywhere I asked and could see (at least 3 different resets) were the same, go somewhere, drop golems take it, use golems take everywthing, then other server will do the same behind. There is no fun in that, sometimes the karma train is even more kittened since you arrive so quick that the lord is still buffed from the previous cap from other server

The event is just ridiculous, blobs with 10-20 golems, opening gates in 10 seconds, spamming 1111 and karmatraingin everywhere. This will be a karma train week, go somewhere, spam 1 and get your loot, WXP and your karma.

I really think these kind of things should be done in EOTM so only players that want to do it can go there and try it, doing it in regular WvW is just something really bad for the WvW players, people already left reset because was boring, people won’t lay this week because it’s boring, people will not upgrade or defend this week because it’s useless. What’s left? Ah yes!! Spam 11111, drop a golem, spam 1111111, take your karma, repeat

The problem is that they never do anything thinking of wvw playerbase, always thinking on PVE players, the change, even temporal will make some people to stop playing the game for a week, already knwo some that said they will do that and havent played reset so far.

Queues got huge on reset, 2-3x times the ones last week for example, will be karma train week, pvd against structure, take things in 2 mins and continue the rotation, no point to upgrade, no point to defend, just take blob, go somewhere make 30 golems and take it in 1 min.

For people that will tell about scouts and everything, it’s impossible to have 24/7 scouts, even with scouts it will be impossible to defend against that

Golem idea is just ridiculous, just a movement to make WvW more ‘PVEadable’. For people that actually cares and jsut plays WvW is the worst movement ever, no poitn to upgrade or defend anything, no point for the poeple to log in to WvW.

This could be nice in EOTM where points don’t matter at all, doing this in regular WvW is just a really really bad idea, after 1 hour it is already boring, ppt everywhere, brainless, no fun,

Golem idea is just ridiculous, just a movement to make WvW more ‘PVEadable’. For people that actually cares and jsut plays WvW is the worst movement ever, no poitn to upgrade or defend anything, no point for the poeple to log in to WvW.

This could be nice in EOTM where points don’t matter at all, doing this in regular WvW is just a really really bad idea, after 1 hour it is already boring, ppt everywhere, brainless, no fun,

I suggest you to join SFR/deso/JS EB in about 1-2 hours to see the lag. FSP/AR/Gandara will also work at same time

Blackelk.3784:

NA side has been a bit rough around SEA prime time (9-10 am EST), than it goes down a bit until around NA prime-time (6pm – 9pm est), the lag sometimes goes on for a bit longer but these are the windows I tend to see it worst. It also seems to band back and forth I have seen anything from .5 second activation on skills up to 30 second activation. Another issue is increased disconnects during high periods of lag, when there are no connection issues on my end.

Lag has nothign to do with hour more than if the hour of the day implies huge numbers or not. Lag is related to numbers of players fighting, it is related to the load of the processor the fights cause (and the way the server handles this load, as Stephen theorized) and it is suffered by everyone in the same map as the big fight is happening. The skill lag delay also depends on the numbers fighting on the map, and so a 3 way fight will cause more daly than a 2 way fight.

There are fights in T1 every 4-5 minutes during prime time, you can check anytime and see (also if you want to detect the exact moment, log in the game and check it out).

Lag is not only happening for those fighting in the big fight, any1 in the map will suffer this lag until fight is over. Also what you say about the server catching up, during the lag period, there are times when skills are not popping at all, and some 2-3 seconds when it seems all comes together, all skills are casted and all the damage are dealt in that short period (like superspeed)

Stephen ClarkeWillson.1802:

Things are stable again. My working hypothesis is that there is a bug in the “catch up” code. It’s not really necessarily bad for a map to exceed 100% CPU for a short period of time – the game is very tolerant of small lag even in WvW battles. But I’m wondering if sometimes a map starts working hard to fix a tiny blip which actually makes things worse for several minutes. If that’s they case it would certainly show up in big fights. I’ve lowered the map cap to keep CPU below 85%-ish to see if there are fewer lag spikes.

It may be that, the thing is that the server starts to lag when the load starts to get higher and higher, and finally it lags. These lag are variable, not always same duration (for example, in a 3 way fight you may have 6-10 secs skill lags, while in a 2 way 60vs60 it may be 2-3 seconds. I suggest you to get into any t1 server that actually has queues (at least in EU) and check it by yourself when fight happens.

Stephen ClarkeWillson.1802:

I will say I think the lag spikes resolve themselves faster than they used to, but they might also spike up faster, which is when they are most noticeable to a player.

3 ways in Stonemist Castle in Eternal Battlegrounds already caused 4-5 seconds skill lag since more than a year (at least).

Stephen, the Spikes are happening mostly for sure when a big fight is happening, that’s why it’s random (mostly random) and appears more on EB than on borderlands (since EB is usually more blobby than borderlands).

For what I have experienced, it happens when there is a 50-60 man blob (or more) fighting another one at a certain point. Lag is not appearing randomly when there is no fights in the map, only happens when the blobs fight eachother

EDIT. Also you will find these kind of spikes in the higher tier matchups, since the populations are way higher than others, so keep track of these with more priority

It is not about the damage the uplevel can deal in a fight, at the worst point it would be as if there was 1 less person in the zerg (which makes no difference at all). The problem here is just the problem of being a rallybot or not. Problem with upleveleds is the fact that they dont have full armor, which drastically reduces the survability (in general, now pro players will come here and say they last more than lvl 80 guys in zerg etc etc). Also being an upleveled in MOST cases means no knowleadge of the class, that leads to be even weakier.

Then the next problem is the upleveled in this case was following a guid raid, while following a guild raid they were using teamspeak or other software to communitcate (most probably) and they would have builds and classes coordinated as well (as in most of the guild raids).

If you are an upleveled, and you are respectful and want others to respect you, please at least don’t follow the guild raids, join a blue tag if any around the map (when a guild raid is happening I am mostly sure there will be a pug raid as well).

Otokomae.9356:

Omg Chedder, just update your drivers already!

I’m also interested to see the “proof” of your ridiculous claims.

coglin.1867:

chedder.6302:

Regardless of the the reason, the stab changes made the lag worse I still believe it is server overload with calculations the lag problem has been drastically worsened. I’m quoting off of ts “It’s sad when Eradon Terrace is lagging”. The lag makes the game unplayable and at least until they find a better implementation the bet course of action would be to revert the change.

Got a link to support that?

chedder.6302:

Let’s not turn this into a flame war. Instead let’s all just agree the changes have made the lag unbearable and to take back the changes and go back to normal lag until there comes a time in which the changes can be made and the only thing effected is the meta.

What about the majority of player? You know, the ones who are not having any lag?

Where are those links, Chedder? Where’s your “proof”? Obviously, if the “majority” of players were experiencing lag, the first thing they would do would be to hop on these forums and make a post about it, right? I mean, it’s not like they would just log out and go do something else; everyone who plays GW2 posts on these forums, don’t they? So clearly, the fact that there aren’t at least 500k unique posts by different accounts complaining about lag on these forums (other forums DO NOT count) PROVES without a doubt that any lag you’re experiencing is on your end (drivers). So, until you can link us to at least 1/2 a million posts by different accounts complaining about lag since the stability patch, I’m just gonna have to say it didn’t happen. Links or it didn’t happen. That’s science. You can’t argue with science, Chedder.

I guess you trolling, eiher way only 4-5 servers per zone will experience this (since others won’t have the numbers to make it happen), talking to EU (have no idea about NA), still don’t know anyone that when blobs came does not have any lag, asked everywhere, not a single guy in map chat said had no skill lag, neither on ts, neither other servers they asked too. Again, only happens when insane blobs fight, not when they are on the map, when 60+ man group engages another one, boom lag hits

nightblood.7910:

antonbalboa.7280:

I saw some things in this post:

Someone claimed scaling is “not as good as in PvP”, well, PvP has no scaling at all, a level 2 ranger will have exactly same stats than a lvl 80 ranger on the same build

….

Really? (as in why did you feel the need to go there)

I guess this is a frame of reference statement, but as I use PvE stats as a frame of reference for my toons and that is what they really are, then they are scaled in sPvP.

ie. Level 2 ranger is definitely scaled up from its base stats in PvE when entering sPvP.

Regardless, its not the same as in sPvP and youre not as formidable and can be detrimental to a guild raid working on limited numbers and one person going down can mean a wipe.

I wanted to say there is no difference about a level 2 ranger and a level 80 ranger when in PvP (PvP is not WvW!!)

Aezyr.5304:

Yesterday after the patch it was much better with the skill delay. If there was
a change not mentioned in the notes, thank you anet. Otherwise I’m perplexed because I didn’t changed anything and my ping stayed between 40 and 60 like in the 14 days before.

That was the general feeling when asking on ts how the rest of the raid was noticing any skill delay. I don’t have contact to the opposing servers so I don’t know about them.

I am curious about how many numbers your guild/server/other guilds and other servers had. I experienced same lag yesterday, currently playing on fsp when a blob wanted to fight us (or when we blobbed up with another guild to fight 3 ways). I think the problem is still there, is just a matter onhow many ppl are fighting inthe same map at a certain time

I saw some things in this post:

Someone claimed scaling is “not as good as in PvP”, well, PvP has no scaling at all, a level 2 ranger will have exactly same stats than a lvl 80 ranger on the same build

About the offense, if you are level <80 you will be mostly useless in the zerg, you won’t have all the traits, nor exotic(or ascended) equipment…. You won’t deal any damage compared to a propper level 80 and/or your defense will not be the same. This transalted to a zerg/blob means that in case of a fight, you will be the most likely to die and this won’t be a problem if when you die, you rallied their down state people.

Third thing, never follow a closed guild raid on the map, reason is because they are on their ts (usually) they have propper setups for the raid to complement eachother and a rallybot between hem will not help them at all (always go with your public commander if any, otherwise ask for raom group, go scout or go alone).

coglin.1867:

Please do not disingenuously claim I said something I did not. I have very specifically stated in several post, that I was genuinely curious as to why it was effect some posters and not others. I Simply refute 2 aspects. One is when posters claim “everyone” has a problem, when that is not the case. And two, claim it has to do with stability, when there is no evidence of that. An example of that would be some of the previous updates that caused specific folks to have lag, that only changed what would outwardly appear as very insignificant.

What time do you play? You play when there is only 30-40 guys or less per server? THat may be the difference, as I said several times, the players are not having this lag constantly, it’s only when almost full map blobs start fighting eachother in the map, if you play at night or at least not during prime time, when queues are not happening then you will likely not have any kind of lag. I don’t know ANY that doesn’t have this lag when it is caused due to amount of people.

coglin.1867:

chedder.6302:

Regardless of the the reason, the stab changes made the lag worse I still believe it is server overload with calculations the lag problem has been drastically worsened. I’m quoting off of ts “It’s sad when Eradon Terrace is lagging”. The lag makes the game unplayable and at least until they find a better implementation the bet course of action would be to revert the change.

Got a link to support that?

chedder.6302:

Let’s not turn this into a flame war. Instead let’s all just agree the changes have made the lag unbearable and to take back the changes and go back to normal lag until there comes a time in which the changes can be made and the only thing effected is the meta.

What about the majority of player? You know, the ones who are not having any lag?

The ones that are not having lag are the ones in servers without big blobs or in a time in a server that there are not big groups in the same map, I can verify that the entire map from all 3 sides happens that lag when it’s coming, can tell it because I play in a guild in FSP, having contacts on both 2 enemy servers also full of guilds and everyone, literally everyone is experiencing lag when it’s happening

Junkpile.7439:

TexZero.7910:

You’re right they do need to balance EoTM

They can start by adjusting rewards. Removing WExp, Reducing exp gain by 33%, Reducing karma gain by 33% and by making it so you cannot join EoTM if you do not have Queues on all 4 maps so that the map is used as the overflow it’s supposed to be.

EotM is for players who like to fight. Normal maps for players who like to PPT. EotM is little bit like hot join. In hot join players fight and in unranked and ranked they sit inside circles. In HoT we finally get normal wvw map worth playing so maybe i play normal wvw then.

EoTM is the WvW side of the farming, nothing more. Commanders are avoiding fights, when commanders decide to fights people following them will be mad and say in map chat not to do so because their farm is being decreased, less levels, less karma, less gold, les WXP. What is even worse is the later transfer to a propper WvW map, peopl e from EoTM will spend 1 week using normal siege everywhere, placing arrowcarts in open field and so, just because in EoTM there is nothing similar to WvW since you don’t have to care about supplies, you will earn tons of badges to buy siege and people are in general, the same ignorant to eachother, so will build rams in walls and catapults in gates.

EoTM was born as a overflow map, which only would be used by 3-4 servers in NA and same in EU if the situation came, that’s why is an “open” map where anyone can join. Said this, this map can’t be called a WvW place since there will be always one server that will roflstomp other 2 (if any organised commander with guild or “popular” tags there) and will be alone in that map after 2-3 wipes of the other blobs.

Purpose of going EoTM in 80% of cases nowadays? Level up a character

yanniell.1236:

Any i7 can make more than 100 billion calculations per second. Even 240 people fighting in the same spot at the same time wouldn’t get near that much calculation. Maybe it’s the game’s engine. How old is it?

In a computer (server in this case) is not all about processor. You assuming they have i7 running, for what I heard they re-using some servers from another previous game (don’t know anything about this, just heard some guys talkinga bout this). Apart from that, add to all the players a track of conditions, damage per second etc etc, then add stability changes (which mechanics are different from other conditions, since you have to track stacks and time (as in bleed for exmaple) but also you have to have a logic behind, to know that a cc removes 1 stack, tht is more than to calculate for conditions like bleed.

Then you cannot say a processor can make 100billion operations per second, what kind of operations are those? you have an idea? setting an integer, changing it or calculating memory allocations takes more than 1 of those “operations” each.

Then you have to add the thing that servers must be fast enough to spread all the info to all around players, your client gets track of where everybody is at a point, the damage they dealing on you etc,a syou can imagine this for huge numbers (such as 240-280 in WvW escalates very high).

After that, you have to assume taht any code has bugs, even more in a huge system as a MMO is.

Said the above, there is no excuse for this lag, or bad (or even not test at all on big numbers) testing, it was bad already before, now its unplayable on big numbers.

coglin.1867:

antonbalboa.7280:

Kaiser.9873:

coglin.1867:

Kaiser.9873:

X players, Y players, ABC players. It doesn’t matter. What matters is no skill lag, then patch, and all of a sudden horrific skill lag for most players.

It’s not like they changed the numbers of players allowed on the BLs. So what in that patch caused it to go from no skill lag to 5 second skill lag? That’s what they need to fix.

Although I agree they should look into the issue. I see less individual posters complaining about it here then I see in the EB map on JQ.

I know someone was asking about lag there last night. I heard everyone reply that they were not having an issue, nor was I. I wouldn’t say “most” players by any means. I would say enough to know it is a problem though, certainly.

when no one adds specifics, such as server, there location, or time of occurance, they are doing nothing more then obscure complaining if you ask me. If folks want the issue resolved, why are they going out of their way to be demanding, yet avoiding listing any information to actually aid in a solution?

Well by most I mean the entire guild group of 20 I run with. Almost all of them complain of skill lag nearly every night since the patch. Granted of the 20 there are 5 or 6 that aren’t feeling it, or like me feel it about every other fight, but 14-15 of the 20 players I run with are gutted during an engagement. On YB there is constant complaining in /m and /t about skill lag on the BLs during NA prime.

I don’t have clue one about Anet’s architecture so I don’t know if perhaps T1 got it fixed or something before T2 did, and I didn’t run Saturday or Sunday(kiddo’s baseball tournament), but Friday night it was terrible.

Dunno about America, in EU T_1 , T_2 and T_3 matchups are currently getting insane lags during prime time, insane = in a blob fight, drop a skill, wait 3 seconds to be dropped and then wait another 3-5 seconds to start ticking damage or whatever the effect it is. After that, all the daamage comes at once (like you die in 2 seconds) and after that there is a “speed time” like if you were having a timewarp on you, then back to start seeing people warping around and using one skill every 10 seconds

From what I have read of the recent dev post on the matter, they suggest they are aware of the particular issue in EU and have posted solution. Did you try any of them?

The fix (if they fix it) will be on server side, nothing that a person can do by himself, it’s not a matter of how fast connection you have, how good computer you have or how good you are playing or with computers, it’s all about the server, when skill lag and wrping comes, it comes for everyone the same way (I am not talking about normal lag, or specific skill lag one guy can be experienced due to connection, localization of the player etc, I am talking about generalised skill lag, that is happening everywhere nowadays since the last patch).

An “update drivers” or “upgrade connection” response won’t help this time

Kaiser.9873:

coglin.1867:

Kaiser.9873:

X players, Y players, ABC players. It doesn’t matter. What matters is no skill lag, then patch, and all of a sudden horrific skill lag for most players.

It’s not like they changed the numbers of players allowed on the BLs. So what in that patch caused it to go from no skill lag to 5 second skill lag? That’s what they need to fix.

Although I agree they should look into the issue. I see less individual posters complaining about it here then I see in the EB map on JQ.

I know someone was asking about lag there last night. I heard everyone reply that they were not having an issue, nor was I. I wouldn’t say “most” players by any means. I would say enough to know it is a problem though, certainly.

when no one adds specifics, such as server, there location, or time of occurance, they are doing nothing more then obscure complaining if you ask me. If folks want the issue resolved, why are they going out of their way to be demanding, yet avoiding listing any information to actually aid in a solution?

Well by most I mean the entire guild group of 20 I run with. Almost all of them complain of skill lag nearly every night since the patch. Granted of the 20 there are 5 or 6 that aren’t feeling it, or like me feel it about every other fight, but 14-15 of the 20 players I run with are gutted during an engagement. On YB there is constant complaining in /m and /t about skill lag on the BLs during NA prime.

I don’t have clue one about Anet’s architecture so I don’t know if perhaps T1 got it fixed or something before T2 did, and I didn’t run Saturday or Sunday(kiddo’s baseball tournament), but Friday night it was terrible.

Dunno about America, in EU T_1 , T_2 and T_3 matchups are currently getting insane lags during prime time, insane = in a blob fight, drop a skill, wait 3 seconds to be dropped and then wait another 3-5 seconds to start ticking damage or whatever the effect it is. After that, all the daamage comes at once (like you die in 2 seconds) and after that there is a “speed time” like if you were having a timewarp on you, then back to start seeing people warping around and using one skill every 10 seconds

coglin.1867:

Kaiser.9873:

X players, Y players, ABC players. It doesn’t matter. What matters is no skill lag, then patch, and all of a sudden horrific skill lag for most players.

It’s not like they changed the numbers of players allowed on the BLs. So what in that patch caused it to go from no skill lag to 5 second skill lag? That’s what they need to fix.

Although I agree they should look into the issue. I see less individual posters complaining about it here then I see in the EB map on JQ.

I know someone was asking about lag there last night. I heard everyone reply that they were not having an issue, nor was I. I wouldn’t say “most” players by any means. I would say enough to know it is a problem though, certainly.

when no one adds specifics, such as server, there location, or time of occurance, they are doing nothing more then obscure complaining if you ask me. If folks want the issue resolved, why are they going out of their way to be demanding, yet avoiding listing any information to actually aid in a solution?

As far as I know is general, when someone has it everyone has it
, talking from fsp whenever any server has 60+ ppl on the blob, know it is happening in sfr, deso, riverside, and piken (where I know some ppl)

Edit. when I say 60+ I mean AROUND 60, didnt count the ppl on the blob, is just almost full map but happens before being full map

coglin.1867:

I do not understand this entire concept of making claims with no actual facts to support it. Nothing has been proven to show PvE population caps. Nothing has been proven to show stability has anything to do with any lag, or that it is or is not a bug due to something else entirely. All this idea of claiming random guesses as if it were fact does, is perpetuate spreading of misinformation.

I would like to hear an official thought about the lag. I just hope the community doesn’t bash the dev that speaks out like they tend to do here.

As I said, I dont have any kind of official response or wiki that says the cap is X players, is all based on numbers a comunnity achieved after days of tries and hours of waiting inside the same map. As I said, even failing in +-20 people , what would lead to have 140 people in the most extreme case, it is for sure not the amount of people that is on those events, simply because it’s already full, no more spots, then I can go again with ts, supplyinfo etc, yes, not a exact number, but for sure is near 120 people

dancingmonkey.4902:

antonbalboa.7280:

dancingmonkey.4902:

I pin up most of the time I go to EotM. I do not really hear any complaints about organizing my side, or fighting the enemies, but what does any of that have to do with the topic discussion?

By the way, you forgot that information about PvE instance population cap.

I dont have any link to the PVE population,but you can pretty well estimate it in around 110-120 ppl, which is the people that fit into a map (measured in organized runs, for exaple triple wurm the first weeks, controlled by ts, jumping to create new instance and making sure everybody is in the map by staying there for hours before the event pops, even 8+ hours).

As I have personally been pinned up at Tequatl with literally more of my guild alone there, then the number your suggestion, I have difficulty accepting your “estimate” argument in this case. You are presenting, what I can presume you feel is your best guess, and using that as an argument, when I get more of my own guild there then that. So it seems a little invalid to me, unless you have stronger evidence to support it.

I don’t have any screenshot or anything to probe it, that’s right, the thing is that being in a hard capped map for 8 hours, where ppl are constantly spamming to join it everytime and only few can get in (mostly due to dcs and so). Then you are 8 hours waiting inside a map as the others, when you split in 3 teams and you have literally all the people on the map and ppl can count themselves in teamspeak (ofc if you wait 8 h to get into a map, is because ppl was on ts all waiting for getting inside) and commander using the supplyinfo command, in that situation I can tell you it was around 110-120, you can ask the people of gw2community, that will give you a most “reliable answer” if you want to call it that way. Even if you add a +-20 ppl which is a lot already, you would be talking in about half of population of a WvW map in total, which leads to 40-50 ppl per server, which currently is running almost good when it happens

dancingmonkey.4902:

I pin up most of the time I go to EotM. I do not really hear any complaints about organizing my side, or fighting the enemies, but what does any of that have to do with the topic discussion?

By the way, you forgot that information about PvE instance population cap.

I dont have any link to the PVE population,but you can pretty well estimate it in around 110-120 ppl, which is the people that fit into a map (measured in organized runs, for exaple triple wurm the first weeks, controlled by ts, jumping to create new instance and making sure everybody is in the map by staying there for hours before the event pops, even 8+ hours).

dancingmonkey.4902:

antonbalboa.7280:

I base myself on the amount of people, on PVE or EoTM there is rarely never any kind of lag, neither before or after the patch, that means that is a reasonable amount of people to process in a single instance of a map, remember PVE cap is around100 per map, where stab change is not a major change.

About EoTM you should go more often, people are just karmatraining, running around pressing 111111 and pressing “F” to get the chests around, when a fight comes, it is usually on eserver that kills the other in less thana second, and that only happens once, after that the winnign server will be alone in map sin ce other will change map

EotM often has so many people that it opens a new instance of it. With that in mind, how is one supposed to accept the argument that it has a “reasonable amount of people”? To be honest though, you kind of lose me at the point in which you disingenuously claim to speak for every player in EotM. I have difficulty accepting much of what you are saying when you are claiming to speak for everyone else. I know in my case, on the occasions I am there, I do more then what your claiming.

The times you are there is probably with an organized commander or guild, which only happens in 1 server usually (of course there are exceptions). About the people to open a new instance, in EoTM is not working as in kittenual map, people are spreaded among maps from the very beggining, is not that server A fulls the map till the hard cap and then another instance of the map is created, people are spreaded between maps, of course after that if the server is full another isntance will appear.

About the part of talking about everyone, I am not trying to do so, ask nearly everybody that knows what eotm is (seeing it from outside, I hardly ever go there), but once there, all the servers avoid eachother, everytime commadner tries to kill other blob all the people complain in map char, saying is better to karma train for level up/get karma/whatever else the reason. Try to get with an organized group in eotm, kill the other server once, kill them twice, you will have 10 ppl to fight against, and you will have all the map of your color, and the people remaining will be blaming on you because you interrupted the karma training.

dancingmonkey.4902:

antonbalboa.7280:

The problem is mostly the stability, the lag already happened before when was normal stability on really huge fights (3 ways in EB for example), since stab change came lag is worse even with less ppl fights, that leads to the opinion that it will be most probably the stab change, why they add more load to already overloaded servers on big groups situations? why they dont try to stress test these kind of things before definetly implementing a big change (as they did with the expansion beta)?

What do you base that on? As the stability change itself is not effecting EotM or PvE. My experience in programming would suggest that the update caused an unforeseen bug that effects something in the code directly related to the server fragments WvW are associated with or the net code variants, specific to them.

antonbalboa.7280:

Stability or not, the thing that the lag is there, has been before (not that hard as I said before) adn they did nothing in all the time, if you can’t handle it, limit it, that simple

I agree that the lag issues need a solution. I disagree with the dishonest claim “they did nothing in all the time”. I (for that matter, anyone that looks) can very factually see various updates posted, in which they state specific, changes made to lessen the lag issues.

I base myself on the amount of people, on PVE or EoTM there is rarely never any kind of lag, neither before or after the patch, that means that is a reasonable amount of people to process in a single instance of a map, remember PVE cap is around100 per map, where stab change is not a major change.

About EoTM you should go more often, people are just karmatraining, running around pressing 111111 and pressing “F” to get the chests around, when a fight comes, it is usually on eserver that kills the other in less than a second (usually one server goes behind the other one and kills without the other even noticing), and that only happens once, after that the winnign server will be alone in map sin ce other will change map

dancingmonkey.4902:

this is wrekks.7602:

^ Since they are closing all the other lag threads I wanted to get this in here.

That post you link basically says if you lag in this game it is your problem. but the problem with that is a huge number of the WvW population is experiencing crippiling lag at pretty much all times right now. So, either everyone’s drivers are out of date or the problem is server side. Which do you think is more likely?

It doesn’t matter what I think is likely, in all honesty. I am simply offering it as a suggestion to check out, in the chance that it may help some folks. What folks feel “it basically says” is irrelevant in my opinion. If they chose to read something more into it, then that is up to them

this is wrekks.7602:

And listen, people are mad. Those of us that have stuck around for 3 years and support this game monetarily are frustrated. Things that have been broken since launch (specifically broken Traits) have never been fixed. The lag in WvW is worse than ever… and we continue to dump money into their wallets. This game is three years old and really never lived up to it’s potential and all some of us want is to play WvW fluidly.

I agree some thing need to be fixed. For some, the lag may be worse then ever. For others, there have been no lag at all. Which is what I mentioned perplexes me. I, personally, have had solid lag one day, and none the next. I have had entire TS full of players reporting to me that they have none on times that other posters are suggesting it is hitting the really bad. I never suggested they had no right to be angry about it. At best, I simply suggested they were not “hateful” or “spiteful” with their post when discussing it. Particularly when they refuse to see if a suggestion offered may aid them.

this is wrekks.7602:

So sorry if the playerbase gets mad it things like Lag in a pvp game mode. This stuff should have been sorted 1 month into the game.

I agree. It should be sorted out. I agree they should be angry. Given that they devs specifically stated that they will flag a post that is rude or hateful, or flag post that are dev bashing, all to be ignored, gives me good reason to suggest posters abstain from doing so, as to get more attention and promote the devs to post responses. Wouldn’t you agree that such a suggestion is reasonable?

The problem is mostly the stability, the lag already happened before when was normal stability on really huge fights (3 ways in EB for example), since stab change came lag is worse even with less ppl fights, that leads to the opinion that it will be most probably the stab change, why they add more load to already overloaded servers on big groups situations? why they dont try to stress test these kind of things before definetly implementing a big change (as they did with the expansion beta)?

Stability or not, the thing that the lag is there, has been before (not that hard as I said before) adn they did nothing in all the time, if you can’t handle it, limit it, that simple

dancingmonkey.4902:

Wanze.8410:

Kaiser.9873:

Here’s the issue I am having with this whole thing. Why is EotM normal, but all WvW maps horrible if more than 35 players start fighting?

Seriously there have been times when flame ram skills take 10 seconds to fire with no blob in sight, you quit in disgust, port into EotM, and no lag at all there even with 2 full mapblobs colliding?

Nobody uses stability in eotm i guess.

I hate to mix logic with useless sarcasm, but wouldn’t that simply indicate the problem is more likely in some coding bug specific to the WvW maps, and not stability?

No problem in EoTM.

No problem in map filling blobs on PvE at Teq, or other world bosses, with stability ticking there.

What about those, indicates it has anything to do with stability change? I mean other then regurgitating what some other random, uninformed poster claimed somewhere else, that is?

In PVE you will have 100 people in a map, all in the same side and even if they put stability it will easy to manage for the server.

In a WvW fight, you have 270-300 people in a map, thats 2-3 times the numbers o n PVE, now realise all of them spam conditions, damage, pop stability, boons etc… There you go. Without the stability part, it was sometimes laggy when 3-way fights came, but nothing comparable to current lag, which makes game unplayable.

About the EOTM part, well I think someone said, probably because all that people do is 1111111111111 most part of time

Any server with 60+ blob fighting anything will cause this all around the map, it’s really an issue since it makes skills not popping at all (or even if they pop, it takes 4-5 seconds to start dealing damage). Really hard to play as ranged or to pop any kind of heal, gaming experience is not really good at all, already saw people leaving WvW for hours until blobs dissapear.

Example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-M8YVuMlVU&feature=youtu.be

It is new stability change, lag was already annoying when lots of ppl were playing (which for me is already bad, if you cant handle the population upgrade servers or limit the ppl that can enter a map), since stability changes came, its even worse, servers that couldnt handle the load before now are even more punished

Problem is when you still diddnt fix lag on blob fights adn then introduce stab changes, which leads to more calculations per player and so more “lag” due to the lack of power of the servers or not good implementation. 3 possible solutions, try to optimize the code (if possible), upgrade servers or reduce population per map (which will make impossible with current population on servers)