Guild Wars 2

pvp has been ruined since 8v8 went away

Really nice IMO ~

As a player gives:
- tons of freedom to adapt to situations
- clear penalties for abusing said freedoms

Just like life!
“Yes I said you could have ice cream if you wanted, but I coulda’ told you four pints would get you sick!”

From a dev standpoint it seems nice as well, what with all the places to tweak the numbers and such.

Well played!

PowerBottom.5796:

Shovel Face.4512:

Here’s the issue.

Ruby onwards your team is gonna suck.

Truth, but often, it helps if you maybe lay out a strategy first and explain why. Yes, sometimes the teammates are stubborn and dumb, but often it helps.

A few examples:

- The enemy team had 2 druids, we had non but sm1 said he wanted to push far. I explained that druids are strongest in 1v1’s and weakeat in bigger teamfights and that we should play strictly 2 nodes. The team agreed and we won.

- Enemy team had Helseth on his shatter mesmer and I think 3 pretty tanky builds + maybe a rev and again they wanted to go for 3 nodes: I said Helseth will outrotate us and +1 on every node and they’ll get all 3 of them.

- I also often write in chat when I hold a node with D/D bunker/support-tempest against 2 bunkers of the enemy team that other ppl on the node can leave cuz I will be able to hold and stuff like that.

If you communicate well and precise and explain your decision-making concisely, I feel most teammates will get the point, even if the salt-levels are very high. :P

One of the bigger missed opportunities for the dev’s of this game was not implementing a usable battle-plan/communication system.

Some kind of easy way to pick leaders, and then implement plans – probably via the mini-map – would make the matches much, much better.

suchalameo.7896:

Kuellet.2710:

i think 2amber is not new player think new account

is it can report some about abuse?

I just want to make it absolutely clear; if you’re a legend right now it is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A QUEUE POP. It will sit you in queue for 2 hours- then have you restart the queue. So basically if you’re halfway decent at this game and got legend too fast you can’t pvp anymore unless you either make a new account and start from amber again, or you get lower division friends.

If you think you belong in legend you should be able to beat them if they have two kitten ambers, am i right?

What a load ~

Unranked pops all the time – go flex your carry muscles while everyone catches up. Or, whine and cry and game the system like the kitten you are.

infantrydiv.1620:

High tier meta almost entirely revolves around mesmer and revenant at this point, and yet here we are, still getting DH qq posts lol

/agree

also… taxes on millionares are too high – they need that cash to support their incredibly humongous brains

choovanski.5462:

… ya can just run hammer and just phase smash his dreams.

lolz

have definitely done this a few times and it is so satisfying

the reason it is satisfying though is because DH’s have been wrecking face since the expansion

just because something is only OP in SoloQ doesn’t mean it’s not OP

abc.5790:

Look on the bright side, at least you scored 200+ point off them. That’s really good for a pug team going against an ESL team

I’m sure one of the five was afk emptying bedpans and refilling the amphetamine i.v’s..

darres.8203:

oh, there’s a post here
let me combine mine then

I really shoudln’t lose a pip for this bullkitten

if only they’d get rid of team q

had to add..

I imagine at this point they are working on the team vs. soloQ thing. In the meantime play could be improved immediately if these teams would stop being dingleberries and soloQ themselves.

Tell me again what is the point of this? Instead of say.. queing against each other for an actual real match?

Are they playing a different kind of game then the rest of us?

Can we say they care about the game most of us want to play?

Ouch… a kitten definitely died there. These guys seem like the types that would watch an accident occur – just for the fun of it.

Crinn.7864:

Terrorsquad.4802:

3. They could make a separate Leagues for SoloQ’ers only, an exact copy except for those ESL stages. Just like before we had Solo and Team Arena (Leaderboard).

Which would result in the game being pure soloQ, because there are not enough teams in existence to population a team queue, which leads to long queue times, which invariably results the teams quitting, and thus alienating players that enjoy social PvP.

I hope you know your sentiment is incredibly laughable here. Basically, “I will only tolerate waiting for a good match if I get to stomp some newbs in the by and by.”

Talk about a sense of entitlement…

Arcade.8901:

… I don’t pvp for wings, i do pvp for fun and good match ups.

Still holding out hope for the original vision ANET put out for PvP in GW2. Meeting ppl in SoloQ that you kick kitten with and forming groups from there.

What is the best pvp move on staff?

Evade + extreme aoe dmg is king ~

blind < evade

vault = situational (and in most cases the evade + dmg on the spot is still better)

foolish to rely on weakness when you are not really landing many conditions, and each little hit is only 2 seconds anyway.

so yeah… 5 it is

have you tried this w/ p/p at all?

Kneru.8014:

Sunshine.5014:

Keep it there. Only the daily grinders and newbies play it (which they should do).

Want a real match? Join an arena game.

^This. It doesnt even have to be ranked, you can play unranked, I do. I’ve actually had some pretty fun matches in unranked, even today. Had 1 a couple hours ago where we lost by 2 points. 500-498. If only I could have killed that Warrior slightly faster, we would have won.

Will you end up in a 4v5? Sure, once in a while. But no where near as bad as the constant 4v5 or 3v5 you find in Practice Mode. Or the constant spectate > autobalance > join winning team as someone else said.

I’ve been playing unranked since the patch where they made the UI changes. I wouldnt even consider going back to practice unless it’s something new I’ve never played before. Play unranked/ranked and let all the team swappers/ragequitters swap teams all they want in Practice Mode.

That sounds like a really fun match

Now imagine it happens on a continuous loop… one game kind of extends into the next (mixing up players at each map change preferably) and awesome rivalries/friendships are formed.

This was the vision for hotjoin and it is a good one… to bad it got lost in the shuffle…

uberkingkong.8041:

Justin ODell.9517:

style.6173:

Why does ANET continue to push skyhammer when the majority of players do not like it?

Because if we only cared about what the majority of players like there wouldn’t even be a PvP mode?

We know some players like Skyhammer and some don’t. After Dec 2nd will know the exact numbers, but don’t expect to be surprised. We try to be inclusive as possible.

Theres plenty of people that like Skyhammer.
The preppy popular kids like it because theres no builds for Skyhammer on http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki .
They are the only ones who can dominate so kitten hammer and force an easy win because everybody doesn’t know how to knock people off.
All the community knows is run into enemy and hope you win by spamming buttons.

They don’t know anything about the skill and high level of play it takes to win Skyhammer. When you see a game won by like 100 to 500, its all because a good player carried entire team.

I’m all for more maps where skill is greatly put into the game, where a good player can truly win the game against a bunch of baddies, on regular conquest that cant happen as easily as it is on Skyhammer type map. You cant easily take out 1-3 people by yourself due to high skill level of play.

More maps like Skyhammer please, and keep Skyhammer its a great map, just requires a lot of skill. And changing your build to support that map (one thing a lot of players lack, they refuse or lack capability to change there builds to be more effective on Skyhammer, thus they get owned all day… Not ANET fault, its the players fault. Everyone is on equal grounds, its just the skill that comes in and it shines kitten Skyhammer.

What usually happens on Skyhammer is one guy dominates hammer room, the entire team refuses to goto hammer because they all newbs and ‘I cant 1v1’, thus nobody goes to hammer, and game has been predetermined. If nobody on your team can 1v1 him, than he clearly better than you (you can do anything he can do, its a fair pvp system), if your team doesn’t 2v1 him or he beats both of you, then clearly he is better than you. You team doesn’t even deserve to win. And reason why he would beat you both is because mainly you didn’t change to a good Skyhammer spec (no good Skyhammer specs are available, hence why people have issues with this map.)
Those preppy popular kids, will gladly show you builds that everyone knows about, but when it comes to showing you a Skyhammer build… Its a secret, they like farming you on tournaments to even think about showing you the secret Skyhammer build.

Don’t blame the game, blame the players.

Your obviously playing in a perfect world that doesn’t really exist ~

Skyhammer is mostly a map of “who has a better graphics card/ lowest ping/latency” because it is one shot kills. You cannot recover from being knocked off, unlike almost all other parts of pvp.

Justin ODell.9517:

I’ll pass it along, but it looks potentially exploitable to me…. not necessarily with what we currently have, but with what others have been suggesting for other issues.

Personally, I’d really like to see an honor system. Have high honor, maybe we’re more lenient with certain punishments. Everyone hate you? Enjoy your 3 month ban for queue dodging. OK, maybe that’s a bit absurd. Plus, ever time someone got Skyhammer, my account would get another batch of demerits. :P

quick answer…

if the other team isn’t voting it’s definitely not fair

cheese.4739:

zELEVENz.6937:

This change will increase the amount of 4v5s in my opinion as the majority of the 4v5s were due to dcs and this change will give people no incentive to reconnect. You really didn’t understand what I was saying at all ‘giving them much stronger wins than they may deserve’ they deserve the win because in other games they will get 4v5s rather than 5v4s. It balances out in the long run. I get what you are saying about boring matches, though I don’t think this change will help it.

Sure in an ideal world there would be no 4v5s, this change will just make people more frustrated at the game than they already are with momentary dcs and make them less likely to reconnect. It wont solve the problem of rage quits/trolls, we need a report function for that.

You keep saying that 4v5/5v4 is going to happen – well, yes, of course they will.
Statistically, they should happen to everyone an even amount for both being the 4 against 5, and vice versa.

This does not mean we should ever accept an excuse for a 4v5.

This does not mean that anyone should ever go unpunished for causing a 4v5.

The whole point of stopping folks from playing when they’re liable to cause 4v5 matches is to minimise the number of 4v5 matches.
One random DC? Sure, minimal timeout, can start playing again soon.
DC two games in a row? Yeah it might be a good idea to not play for a bit; starting to look like a bit of a risk.

Letting someone keep playing after repeated DCs is no way to run a ranked system – particularly one with PvP as fast-paced as GW2’s can be, with certain key objectives (communes on Temple, lord rush on Foefire) able to drastically change the balance of a match within moments.
One minute to disco, log back in, load up map… that’s a whole minute in which the other team can have won an outnumbered teamfight and backcapped a point, if not more.

With regards to the ’they’ll just not come back in if they get no rewards anyway’:
- If not there for the end of the match, players don’t get reward track progress/rank points/coin. Folks definitely like to get their loot. The only ‘reward’ that may not be granted at all, should the player reconnect, is ladder rating.
- If someone does just alt+f4 out of there because their connection is being unreliable… good for them! This accomplishes the same as stacking up dishonourable timeouts does, but with only one match ruined! ^_^

LoL – this is funny (and awesome) ~

reminds me of what I was hearing that made me first want to play this game…

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Maybe you never had it spelled out for you, Anet….. but Autobalance and Teamswap need to be removed from hotjoin sPvP

Here is why…..

Say you are in a match where the score is:

Red
45

Blue
380

The score is so one-sided because red team has 4 players and the blue team has 5.

One of the players on the red team pushes the B button…. and goes into spectator mode… creating a shortage of two players for the red team

……forcing a player to be Autobalanced to red from the blue team.

As soon as the autobalance occurs…. the teams will then be even, and the player who is spectating can now join the winning team instead of being on the losing team.

Even if he gets returned to the losing team due to a future autobalance, he will still receive credit for winning.

Please remove this from Hotjoin spvp….. people are abusing is so much, it is absurd.

It’s become an entirely different type of game – and it’s not as fun.

Yea I really agree with the OP.

I mean, I really have trouble running this for long myself – because I just cringe at the wasted (mostly) 300 condi damage.

In reality it is the strongest – but part of me just hates that.

The strongest builds should be the ones with incredible synergy.

Narkodx.1472:

Wheres the joke?

search out the people that feel this is necessary training for arena mode. then feel the smile coming on

Steb.2571:

Because 8v8’s were nothing but zergy cluster-kittens where no-one could see what was going on, people didn’t even play the control points, and people couldn’t even learn to play the game because of this environment, let alone learn what other players were doing or how to react to it. It was just a hot mess, and it’s better for everyone now that it’s gone.

~ to anyone who agrees with this:

Please stop being elitist jerks.

I refer you to the part of the OP’s statement that everyone is missing – when confronted with 5v5 or 8v8, almost everyone chose 8v8.

Why? Super easy. Because 8v8 servers were fun and 5v5 servers were then what they are now, beat-your-head-against-the-wall-4v5 most of the match-kittenfests. *Excuse my french

Epidemix Revenge.4862:

Wasn’t that long but still…. the match started with 4 on my team. so if the “I am ready” button was in effect and all ten had to click it to start match this wouldn’t have happened. I will open a new topic for every 4v5 till this is implemented or a developer gives me a good reason why it wont work

first line made me lol – gj

Chesire.9043:

Sube Dai.8496:

Play spvp. Hotjoin is meant for ppl waiting in queue.

That isn’t really a solution because tournies suffer their own annoyances that have yet to be resolved. Being autobalanced by team hoppers only to get into a tPvP match with 4v5 and getting smashed there doesn’t sound appealing.

So so true.

Also hot join is the entire reason I came to this game – it promised a no grind needed, fast-paced pvp environment. One where there was the potential to meet other players based on a compatible play-style without worrying about deal breaking gear-checks all the time.

It was great for a while – I definitely developed friendships and rivalries with others I saw often and it was really really fun. I played almost every day for an hour or more.

I haven’t touched GW2 for over 2 weeks at this point because it is not fun at all anymore.

I held on for quite a while. I would visualize a great match in my head and log on only to find the nothing had grown even larger.

Godspeed GW2 pvp devs.

Aza.2105:

Evan Lesh.3295:

At what point are you seeing players join teams from spectator mode? Rewards are based on time played on a team, so are people forgoing partial rewards to be on the winning team?

This is not the problem.

The problem is players not wanting to lose. So they switch teams or try..not matter what the rewards are. Here is a typical example of what goes on in hotjoin:

• Everyone is new to the server, match starts and its 5v5

• In the first 2mins blue obliterates red on center point then proceed to take other points

• Two people from red quit, one goes to spectator

• Auto balance happens and some one from blue goes to red, then the guy who quit red goes to blue

• The original blue player doesn’t like being switched so he goes to spectator, its 3v5 again. Auto balance happens and another blue is forced to go to red. The original blue player returns to his team. The match is still 4v5

• Someone new joins the server and finally red team has a 5th man.

• After losing once to 3 people ganging up on him, he leaves the server. Its 4v5 again

• Match finally ends with the score of 500 to 90

This is how the typical hotjoin game plays these days. I see a lot of people say GG after the match, I’m guessing 4v5 is a good game in their eyes since 4v5 is now the standard match. Its sad because no matter what server you go to it always ends up happening.

Thank you for this ~

I can personally attest that this (and/or close variations that have the same result) is the vast majority of games since spectate came to be.

It is so sad that one of the coolest parts of the pvp game has sunk it into the gutter. It is frustrating that no one who can help has seemed to notice/care.

Edit: Another variation starts differently but ends the same – while killing the server.

• Enter a ‘full’ game that is 425-60.

• Next game starts – one guy from the winning team joins red – no one else does anything for a few seconds (up to 20+ sometimes, at which point all the spectators leave and the server dies).

• Someone unaware of the situation from the losing team joins blue (1v1).

• Another former winner immediately joins red (game usually starts about this point).

• As suckers trickle into the blue team the loop continues ad nauseum.

Thank you for this story DaliIndica; as I said the problem is not subtle.

Yes I agree it has changed since 8v8 went away.

You will never learn how to play tournament games in hotjoin in my opinion. What you can do though is learn how to have fun in hotjoins. I had many many epic moments in 8v8’s even though I knew it wasn’t the meta of the game.

Locuz.2651:

Ppl on these forums are champions at being vague. Its really hard to discuss something if you cant define whats so bad about it … or whats imbalanced … or whats lacking systems or gameplay wise. If i had to summarize your post it would be something like this:

1] This game is bad -> and not explaining why.
2] I play hotjoins and this is why … -> No need to defend yourself. Everyone should play how they want to play.
3] That other game was bad too, but this is even worse -> not explaining why again.
4] Plz help. -> with what?

So please make a summary of things you dislike about the game atm and add some examples to make it easier for people to understand what you mean.

I stated my problem was with hotjoins. Let me tell you that it is ridiculously and blatantly obvious what the problem is. Nothing vague about it friend.

I suggest that you go play ten games. It will explain much better than I ever could.

Really, really bad. Like, I love this game and when I think about loggin in anymore I cringe and think again.

Yes I am talking about hotjoins – its the style I have always enjoyed. It allows me to go as deep into the game as I want without worrying about mounting some meta and abusing it like the cheap kitten it is.

Also I have an 8 month old and when he starts crying I start runnin – so its really nice for that also

Even WoW never got quite this bad and it was horrible at times.

Please for the love of the computer game gods, do something to help |/\|

Chaith.8256:

Your frustration is 100% because you are hotjoining and expecting equality & competitiveness. Try solo queue.

Well that sucks for those of us who want to play for a bit but can’t necessarily lock into arena games for a set time period.

Should we not care that a large portion of the pvp experience is &*$#’ed atm? As in like, really bad and not fun as the OP has expressed.

Do you think it would be so hard to fix? Or at least make better?

Just thought of an idea in 10secs.. what if the team with more players got penalties? In point accumulation at least; maybe more?

Oh here is another… If your team is outnumbered you gain an ability -
~ Determined ~
Your character will progress point capture irregardless of enemy players.

EverythingEnds.4261:

@ Chilli
I think you didn’t understand Dee Jays Thread.

He complains about all “regular” Hot Join Servers being full.
So, you “Join Now” makes you enter a Custom Arena, from which a big part are “Rank-farm Arenas”.

Because the overload of Hot Join, players who wouldn’t usally play on Solo and TeamQ start playing there, without having proper experience.

I think, ANet rly needs to react quick and increase the amount of Hot Join Servers. There are so many new players, that a lot of them get pushed into some 10 vs. 10 custom zerg arenas, where you don’t learn anything.

Those 10v10 servers you’re talking about are weird scary places…

Geiir.7603:

OP:

Thief was meant and designed to be the most mobile profession. Our style is get in, hit hard and gtfo. It’s the only profession with that style yes, but I find it challenging (for both the thief and when I’m playing against one). We were designed for superior mobility, hence the popular spot as roamer in teams. We are able to rotate fast, but our team fight capabilities suck. We can’t do kitten in a group fight if it wasn’t for our teleports, unless we figure we will spam shortbow, but then the team is better off with a warrior…

This sounds like WvW, where the issue is less noticable to be sure. However, in small, obstacle filled maps – having one class basically hovering above everyone like a spider is kinda weird.

Leeto.1570:

Anyway i give up it really seems you dont understand the problem about thiefs.
I can kill thief by spamming scepter one on condi necro, i can kill thief with 3 life blasts on power necro, i can just kill thief with eyes closed on my condi engi, jeez it has nothing to do with 1v1 its about the fact that you have to play completely different game when there is thief around.
You are low on hp while sitting in clocktower window… what do you do? You position so casters cant hit you by line of sighting and you look out if melee is not going for you, if there is thief he just teleports to you and bursts you.
In legacy of foefire i sit on highground doing ranged dps, jump down for melee dps and take highground again if i know that someone can decap our close, if they have thief then i loose any melee dps cause if i jump down there is no way i will get to close before thief decaps it.
If you down someone you want to keep him in downstate to give your team advantage, if enemy team has thief he can unnoticed teleport accross map and burst you down.
It has nothing with 1v1s or having problems with killing thief in fair fights, its about fact that thief just takes out tactical play out of this game.

And no actually thief makes you not use your brain, instead of rotating and spamming aoe on mid while watching if someone is going for your close you have to sit on close 24/7 otherwise thief will just decap it all time.

I don’t see what is so hard for ppl to admit that thief is the only class with a persistant ability to teleport. That is the issue I see pointing out of your statements, and yes it is game changing.

Discordia.7293:

Try playing with MM necrozoomaster, or prismatic OP mesmer, or enginner condibunker or anyone condibunker easy mode. Press dodge with sigil of energy and spamm condition.

Sry Discordia but I just have to point out how funny it is to see your 1v1 argument exactly after the OP’s plea to recognize his wide angle argument for a second time

Sunshine.5014:

Thorn.7963:

Justin ODell.9517:

Thorn.7963:

Which I assume is also why PVPers aren’t allowed to freely change their skins now without having to get charges now.

You apply skins to weapons and armor, after you apply it you can still keep them in your inventory and swap them for free.

Thats true, I didn’t think about that, but that now means I have to spend a lot of bank space or character space holding different item skins if I’m someone who likes to swap skins when I feel like it.

I liked having the huge storage I could put everything I had and could swap with whenever I wanted.

If the game had free skin changes like DCUO or LOTRO this wouldn’t be an issue, but why should we have to pay for it?

Dude, TBH with you, I think it’s fine. They don’t charge monthly subscription fee, and they need to make a living. Most of the thing in pvp is free already, except for cosmetics (and the new traits/amulets). You can’t have your cake and eat it too. For hardcore pvp players like us, we already have a good percentage of our wardrobe filled. Cosmetics is what keeping GW2 free for everyone.

I’m for one agree that they can charge a little small fee for cosmetics and keep the game free for most people.

I agree with you Sunshine, it’s much better than being forced to pay a monthly sub fee. It seems to me if this were the case it should just be said plainly because its a fine argument.

I think a lot of people do not know/are forgetting that unlocking an amulet etc. is account wide not per character.

Drake Phoenix.6158:

Shockwave is absolutely right. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, the reason for the zerker meta is because the game design currently has a rewards system that requires the highest/fastest damage possible in order to have the highest rewards efficiency. As long as that remains the case, every group will always be best served by whatever will enhance the total group dps overall the most.

While it may affect the meta to chane other systems to make it so that something other than power/crit would accomplish the greatest total group dps, that doesn’t change the fact that it is still all about the damage output (especially in PvE). They could nerf zerker gear into the ground, and all they would accomplish is to force players to replace zerker with the next best thing for increasing total group dps. They could buff conditions in some way (like changing stacking mechanics), and if it turns out that the change results in condi builds being better for overall damage output in groups than zerker currently is, then everyone will switch up to pure condi gear. In effect they would have changed everything in order to change nothing at all.

In my opinion, if they really want to change the paradigm so people don’t always take pure damage (at least in PvE), then they need to change the reward system drastically (as well as making conditions useful in PvE groups). The only way to get away from the pure damage meta is to make it so that players are rewarded with equal rewards efficiency even when they take another approach.

Whoa careful there Drake – you are straying dangerously close to the edges of groupthink

cool really fun to watch – grats on a great video

geekanerd.4123:

trampled underfoot.4523:

My favourite, though unintentional I suppose; is the obligatory “gg” at the end of the match even as the game ended 501-23. It is often stated to commiserate the absolutely one sided match.

The responses one receives from the opposition (assuming you are on the winning team in this debacle) is priceless. Some of the PM’s I have received after a simple “gg” would make any troll blush.

Sometimes I feel a little awkward for the guy that ggs at the end of the match and nobody responds. They just leave. I see your gg and raise you kittened off silence!

Yea, don’t you think it’s better to let them know how kitteny they are being by saying “gg” after a 500-63/8v5 hotjoin?

As if we are all professionals acknowledging each other… lolz

Very entertaining.. ty =)

Caedmon.6798:

SonOfKrypton.4357:

As an Elementalist player and lover, this is absolutely horrible to read and take in.

Before you rage out at the Elementalist in your team in yoloQ for not playing an AI based class that plays itself, remember that you did this to the class.

All the endless whining about RTL, ele heals, triple cantrip bunker.

Everyone who ever complained about Elementalists, it’s your fault. Please don’t get mad at me for “playing a useless class that contributes nothing to the team.”

I don’t care! I will play the class that I love and I will get my Champ Magus title and then you’ll see my rear end as I RTL away from this horribly cancerous game mode.

I can’t enter one SoloQ game without having to block at least one person on my team.

I don’t think the problem is that Elementalist is weak, I think the problem is that other classes are too stronk.

What do you think?

I think that when you have to block atleast one person in every match,that maybe you should look at yourself first. I dont have to block anyone,in any match.

Hows the weather up there?

Liewec.2896:

Allie Murdock.8152:

As for skyhammer in solo arena, we’re kicking around some ideas (definitely not ignoring you guys, just fyi). As of right now, we have no plans to remove it. We’re not quite convinced yet that the majority of our pvp population want it gone, so we’re trying to get metrics on that before we make any changes.

skyhammer is just too different to the other maps in the rotation that you need an entirely different build to play effectively, this makes it impractical to be in the normal rotations,
i don’t think anyone needs skyhammer to be completely removed from the game,
but one idea would be to have it as a standalone map outside of the hotjoin and solo queue, (so people who wish to play skyhammer can queue for skyhammer-only matches)

Nice idea – this allows it to be very different yet still as part of the whole.

Seems like it boils down mainly to two types of preference.

One is a Mortal Kombat style, you have a basic set of rotations and the action is about executing those with very slight variations for timing. Landing a good one is an auto win.

The other is a Street Fighter style, where you still have combos; but landing one doesn’t mean game over. It puts you in a great position, but by no means is it an auto win.

So there ya go.. maybe this should turn into a poll…..

OneManArmy.9732:

when I am playing bunker cantrip d/d ele and have lag spike I think “pff whatever, keep faceroll”
when I am playing fresh air full burst and have lag spike I am pressing alt-tab to read some news/check mail/open new playlist.

there is no skill in bunker/condi play. no. not a little. no skill, just faceroll, unless you are guardian 1v3

lol… yet another *whhoosssshhhhhhhhh"

viability of builds in GW2 thread is that way >

Phaeton.9582:

bud.9246:

Phaeton.9582:

Can someone tell me if this is a joke thread before I read it?

Edit: at the risk of this being a trolled, sounds like you’re saying defensive set ups are harder, so four reasons why that’s not the case, real fast.

A: Landing key attacks consistently is more important on glass builds; glassvglass defines the winner almost immediately, and vs bunker/sustain it is vital to take them down.

B: in team fights, glass teams take more coordination to pull off as when and how to use your burst is crucial. EG if you down someone and he gets ressed easily that’s a big plus to the attrition team. Attrition teams just focus in on the first guy to run out of cool downs.

C: attrition builds can take stuff on the chin; glass builds can’t. Not getting hit by stuff is harder than using your heal when it comes off cooldown.

D: thieves

There are many more reasons, but in all honesty even I don’t care.

You also sir, are missing the point.

Example 1 Duel:
Two glass classes

Round 1:
Thief “A” wins
Thief “B”: “Aww man, that was sooo lucky. You literally used ‘x’ a millisecond before I used ‘x’, lets go again?”

Round 2:
Thief “B” wins
Thief “A”: “No good, I lag spiked like twice that round, go again.”

Round 3-4-5 etc…
Eventually the better player becomes obvious.

Example B:
Two tankier classes duel

Round 1:
Tank “A” wins
Tank “B”: “Holy crap that was a kitten good fight.”

/example

This game could use a serious reduction in spike damage and healing. They are actually in a unique position to do that since no-one would get kitten if healing took a hit to compensate for lower damage.

omg no

The fight you’re describing might be the case if builds were mirrored, however in a normal scenario a drawn out fight like that would be more build related. Hence the phrase buildwars 2. Basically the more a fight deemphasizes the landing of key attacks at specific times, as well as the retention of cooldowns, the quicker it devolves into build-related faceroll.

Actually.. why am I being nice about this. You’re very very wrong, and the only reason the OP is forgiven is because he is clearly an excellent troll.

wait just read that last bit ARE YOU SERIOUS???!!!111111one

.

What I mainly see you saying is that you think any fight that lasts longer is de-emphasizing interupts, well placed dodges and so on.

I don’t understand how you can come to that conclusion…

The example I used clearly shows that both ends of the spectrum will come to the same ending. Simply that one will take many rounds to decide and the other, not so many.

In game this means that you will win the fights your are supposed to a vast majority of the time. As it stands now only the most disparaging of match ups could be decided in one or two rounds.

b

game mode for gods sake!

Y’all are on point. I was just thinking two days ago that an arena that allowed any and all except fotm kind of thing would be really fun

Phaeton.9582:

Can someone tell me if this is a joke thread before I read it?

Edit: at the risk of this being a trolled, sounds like you’re saying defensive set ups are harder, so four reasons why that’s not the case, real fast.

A: Landing key attacks consistently is more important on glass builds; glassvglass defines the winner almost immediately, and vs bunker/sustain it is vital to take them down.

B: in team fights, glass teams take more coordination to pull off as when and how to use your burst is crucial. EG if you down someone and he gets ressed easily that’s a big plus to the attrition team. Attrition teams just focus in on the first guy to run out of cool downs.

C: attrition builds can take stuff on the chin; glass builds can’t. Not getting hit by stuff is harder than using your heal when it comes off cooldown.

D: thieves

There are many more reasons, but in all honesty even I don’t care.

You also sir, are missing the point.

Example 1 Duel:
Two glass classes

Round 1:
Thief “A” wins
Thief “B”: “Aww man, that was sooo lucky. You literally used ‘x’ a millisecond before I used ‘x’, lets go again?”

Round 2:
Thief “B” wins
Thief “A”: “No good, I lag spiked like twice that round, go again.”

Round 3-4-5 etc…
Eventually the better player becomes obvious.

Example B:
Two tankier classes duel

Round 1:
Tank “A” wins
Tank “B”: “Holy crap that was a kitten good fight.”

/example

This game could use a serious reduction in spike damage and healing. They are actually in a unique position to do that since no-one would get kitten if healing took a hit to compensate for lower damage.

TheGuy.3568:

I am going to say a couple of things here. I am going to try to keep this short and very civil.

DD has been the hardest hit build for thieves over the last ten months. DD burst thieves have seen some of the hardest (but in many cases appropriate) nerfs so far in the game maybe save engineer. Many of those players migrated the D/P as the meta shifted that way and to S/D as it was popularized and buffed. DD is actually one of the lesser played thief specs now a days. And they guys who still get those numbers are truly glass. They aren’t critting mugs anymore and the classes around them have literally been buffed in many cases. The people you see playing glass DD now a days are actually some of the better players. Many of them have stuck with builds that are already outdated and out played by the common builds you will see now a days.

You are complaining about a bygone build that doesn’t have endless evades that will not rip your boons, that does not have unstoppable stealth. It is the easiest build to counter play among all thief builds. It is not S/D where you have your dodge, S/P with blinds and an evade state, it is no P/D which can build tanky and kite forever, it is not D/P with blind and stealth that can barely be stopped. It is pure utilitarian DPS with 2 skills that are almost useless. Losing to this build is the equivalent of getting out played by the most kitten thief build there is now.

I not telling you this with anger but after watching the last 10 months even advocating for nerfs to thief burst myself with my first main being a thief I find these complaints ridiculous and short sighted. I am not going to call you a noob or tell you learn to play but looking at the big picture I am actually surprised DD hasn’t been buffed yet.

Thanks for reading.

I believe you may have actually made an argument for the prosecution here =)

Backstab burst is too high, yet is the only reason that weapon set is viable. D/D is a disjointed set from either side of the isle (condi or power builds). The reason it still gets played is because backstab is so easy to use with the potential for incredible burst.

If the weapon set actually had some usable utility it would not need the off the charts burst.

I am not talking about dueling here btw – where I agree this set can be really easy to see coming and take appropriate measures to protect yourself. This is more like you are engaged in a battle and then bammo deadsteak.

Lordryux.9785:

what makes spirit rangers OP is definitly the elite being able to self res urself… no class should be able to do that besides warrior 3 downed state. And aswell having burst and condi damage AND more tankyness than a kitten bunker necro well.. thats just utterly rediculous lol. no class should have that all in one. every other class pretty much sacrifices.. in that category to go condi and be tanky or to go burst and be glassy.. but not all 3. thats why people say spirit rangers are OP.

They may lack stun breakers and stability but it doesnt matter they are kitten hard to take down.. i mean even on my mesmer. i have to throw out. 2 iduelist and 1 izerker just to take them down.. plus my cooldowns.. imagine how long that takes -_-

Now when u get a teammatchup. against 5 or 4 spirit rangers on one team. well.. i say GL to you sir. you better try harder than you ever. have before.. cuz that like facing the devil himself. keep ur distance for sure.. or your dead as hell

I think this brings up a valid comparison. As I consider a thief who has fully traited into poisons vs a ranger fully traited into spirits – it is clear to me that the ranger is floating with much more value (aka bang for the buck). poisons would be 3-6 applications (with the +1) vs continuous shared applications (another fully traited tree for the thief to gain shared effects) for 1 min or until the spirit is killed — uh yea i’ll take my chances with ‘b’ thank you.

I know that I am talking about different conditions (+buffs) which may skew a comparison, yet I feel that the effective benefits are balanced among them (if not even again in the rangers favor).

Psychogene.6780:

If you think sync queing is bad now when SoloQ just got introduced and is supposedly fresh for all players, imagine in 3 months time if the pvp population gets back to its usual size – SoloQ may end up being a Solo ‘Premade’ Q if they don’t fix this sync thing.

So thanks for letting us know lordrosicky about this exploit – most people would just abuse it in silence. I really hope it gets fixed soon somehow – I’d hate for people to be accused of syncing their Q’s when they did not, and on the other side you would get people who just love to feed their ego when all they really have done is try to gain an unfair advantage.

If I was coding the matcher, I would flag people who have just been on a team together to be disallowed for being with anyone of that team for the next game. I.e. I would just attach a list of the last 4 people to each person, and disallow them from being on a team with anyone on that list.

Each game you refresh the list.

Thats a good idea when the population is healthy but it does not really translate well if there are a small number (say 10 people including you in the Q). Imagine you just finished a game, 4 of your teammates are now flagged as having played with you. If there was only 10 people in the Q, then the only option would be to choose from the 5 players from the other team but it wont be possible because they would also be flagged with each other as having played on the same team.

I think for this flagging system to work (without doing any maths, just a guess) you would need a minimum of 25 players in the queue (5 teams worth including yours, so that each game you can choose one person from each of the 5 random teams to avoid anyone having been on the same team twice in a row).

I think anet could introduce this flagging system when its 25+ players in the queue, and when its under 25 players they could maybe introduce another system.

I dont know a lot about statistical math – but I bet even with ONLY 10 ppl in the que a decent system could and would continually work to make the teams as even as possible (really pretty easy?).