Showing Posts For casper.2947:
I agree. The intended purpose and the result do not match up at all.
I also do not use great sword, I use hammer scepter/shield or sometimes mace/shield. Retaliation is no problem to keep up, the only thing that is harder after the patch is protection.
They may or may not have messed up great sword. I am not sure since I do not really use it. However retaliation is far from fixed. It is still endless. See my thread on the guardian forums for more information ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/You-can-still-do-endless-retaliation-its-just-harder-guide/first#post378331 ).
Basically you can easily keep up retaliation endlessly against ranged and melee attackers.
The worst of it all is that they just made it 1-1-1-1-1-1 character. Hell you don’t even need to spam it, just right click on it for auto-attack and there you have it, in PvE all you have to do is running in circles like an idiot. Of course the kill time is increased this way, who cares, after all the game manifesto was all a gimmick to make up a hype train. I’m extremely frustrated to ANet, this is the most irrational nerf they have done to any of the classes, and they don’t have the guts to respond and/or explain in either one of ALL the major Q.Q threads. Greatsword is EXTREMELY boring now. Imagine how a guy with legendary GS would feel. I pitty them, since I use only a mystic claymore which is not that expensive but sheesh :|
I do feel let down. PvP with guardian used to be fun, then sPvP happened :/
As stated in another thread, I have no idea why would you listen to the minority of sPvP players, who, infact, could reroll in exactly 10 minutes and rebuild their traits/stats completely free AND quickly.
I understand what your saying. I still love my guardian and I rarely do sPVP. I stick to tPVP with my team. I never really used the GS since I actually enjoy being a bunker (weird i know). Anyway I am curious to see what they try next to fix retaliation. Honestly I don’t understand why they do not rework retaliation itself instead of things that give retaliation.
Been saying that all night last night. The ability to keep up Retaliation in a dedicated build is unaffected. Radiance 15, Honor 10 and Virtue 15 is really all it takes for PVE. That’s only a 10 point deviation for a lot of people.
Honestly I just pvp, but your right, you don’t need to do all of the traits exactly as mine. Only certain ones are for the retaliation, the rest are for the build
Here’s the irony: you have to take 7.5 x your health pool to kill someone with the same health pool (lowest one in the game, so probably still won’t be dead) as you using retaliation. It’s rubbish!
Obviously retaliation does not guarantee that you will kill anyone, infact its most useful (imo) to be used against heavy dmg targets, more then another bunker for instance.
Oy vey. All Anet did was make it so every Greatsword Guardian can’t keep retaliation up all the time. You now have to spec a little into it if that’s what you want. Greatsword’s AoE DPS actually increased a bit because Whirling Wrath and Leap of Faith got a cooldown decrease.
How was the AOE dps increased? No the cool downs were not decreased.
I’m starting to believe that all this has been done to kitten guardian’s greatsword “fieldability” and not the retaliation. Leaping out of light combo field still gives you 10 seconds of retaliation, yeeey, but then again you can make SoW every 1 minute. Although Wall of Reflection is considered a light combo field o.O
IMO using WoR is wrong for combo field, just make it normal ANet
I believe it only gives 3 now? I was testing it about an hour ago and I was getting 4 seconds with the trait.
As you can see this would never end. You can always continue to keep retaliation up if you want. THE BREAKOUT DOESN’T EVEN USE THE RENEWED FOCUS ULT!!! That is another 12 seconds you can use to fill in blank spots or what not if needed. You even get so much retaliation that it starts to overlap.
This combo may not be able to be pulled off in full combat or team fights, but one on one it would be really easy to keep retaliation up this long if say two bunkers were fighting. Also, in team fights, the chances of you being able to auto attack someone or multiple someones to get your auto attack symbol + mighty blow retaliation off are pretty high so keeping up retaliation even then is not really difficult.
TLDR;
Retaliation can easily be kept up indefinably with a little finesse. Hammer auto attacks create a symbol and mighty blow activates area retaliation (which does affect you) which you can use to fill gaps. Mighty blow = 5 second cool down and the retaliation lasts for 4 seconds. That’s 48 seconds of retaliation, just from the hammer, per 60 seconds. For melee fights it should be obvious how (with the build linked at the beginning) you can keep retaliation up.
For ranged I encourage you see the ranged (breakdown) but to summarize: utilities + auto attacks + mighty blow + virtues = endless retaliation as long as you use your auto attacks appropriately… aka every 20 seconds. Also using renewed focus guarantees your ability to keep up retaliation indefinitely.
Temp Build Posting:
Weapons
- Hammer (Stamina)
- Scepter/Shield (energy/bloodlust)
(sigils do not matter for the purposes of this post but i gave them anyway)
Traits
-20 Valor (V IX)
-30 Honor(III VI XII) – VI could be ‘I’ if you want an additional 4 seconds retaliation
-20 Virtues(II IX)
Amulet (even though for this post its not important)
- Soldiers w/ soldier’s jewel
Runes
- Earth 6/6
(I still like the look of earth runes after yesterdays patch, however I have not tested it enough to decide one way or another yet. For now they stay)
Utilities
- Stand Your Ground!
- Save Yourselves!
-Sanctuary or Spirit Hammer (not essential for this discussion)
(edited by Moderator)
For ranged (breakdown) (where you may not be able to also hit your target with auto attacks due to being kited or what not):
Stand your ground = 7.5 seconds retaliation on 24 second cool down
Save yourselves = 15 seconds retaliation on 48 second cool down
Virtue of Justice = 4 seconds retaliation on 30 second cool down
Virtue of Resolve = 4 seconds retaliation on 60 second cool down
Virtue of Courage = 4 seconds retaliation on 90 second cool down
Renewed Focus = 12 seconds retaliation on 90 second cool down
Auto attacks + mighty blow = 8 seconds retaliation on 60 second cool down
To explain auto attacks + mighty blow: Say you land 2 auto attacks and lay the symbol but have to use both scepter + hammer immobilize to do so, with a wep swap. So that’s 4 seconds immobilize on a 20 second cool down (since Chains of Light) (scepter immobilize) is a 20 second cool down. So that is 8 seconds (2 different uses of auto attack + mighty blow retaliation per 60 seconds (then an additional combo at 60 second mark).
For those of you that want math based on cool down timers (here is a possible way to do it):
7.5 (stand your ground)
+ 15 (save yourselves)
+ 4 (virtue of justice)
+ 7.5 (stand your ground again) (I’d use this as soon as off cool down since retaliation duration stacks)
+ 4 (virtue of resolve)
+ 4 (virtue of courage)
+ 8 (immobilize + auto attacks + mighty blow combo x 2 times before the 60 second mark – just put here because they are thrown in where you see best)
+ 7.5 (stand your ground)
+ 15 (save yourselves again) (I’d use this as soon as off cool down since the retaliation duration will stack)
+ 4 (virtue of justice)
+ 7.5 (stand your ground)
+ 4 (immobilize + auto attacks + mighty blow – right around 60 second mark
+ 4 (virtue of resolve)
+ 4 (virtue of courage)
+ 8 (auto attack + mighty blow used throughout where needed or seen fit x 2)
+ 7.5 (stand your ground)
+ 4 (virtue of justice) (used with auto attack + mighty blow – same time as using stand your ground to make sure you land it (just an example here for some random guidance)
+ 15 (save yourselves)
I am going to stop here.
= 130.5 seconds used in less than 120 seconds so basically 130.5 seconds retaliation in 120 seconds.
So to clarify that is 63 seconds retaliation per 60 seconds. So if that is not enough, we still have one more skill Save yourselves!. This gives an additional 12 seconds retaliation base + trait = 15 seconds retaliation.
So now that’s 63 + 15 = 78 seconds retaliation. So that is all without virtues which used with the Renewed Focus ultimate can give 24 seconds retaliation. So back when I said use the virtues with some sense, this is what I meant. If you are fighting a ranged class and can only get in their face a little bit (aka with hammer immobilize plus jump or scepter immobilize, switch wep then go with hammer and use that immobilize when they get away a bit again, etc). Combined with all these tools you can easily keep retaliation up.
So since as of this moment, I guess, I have realized I am writing a retaliation guide, and will have to change the opener ><, let’s talk about ranged. To clarify: I am going to be using times with the +25% duration trait and not breaking them out by base + trait any longer.
So, People say that you can’t keep up retaliation indefinitely? How about doing it with only having to hit the target with 4-6 auto attacks? So we have the following skills (breakout):
- Stand your ground! = 7.5 seconds
- Save yourselves! = 15 seconds
- Virtues + Renewed Focus = 24 seconds
= *46.5 seconds retaliation
Now on top of that, if you were to use Stand your ground! at the beginning of a fight, which you may or may not do depending on a situation, then you have 1.5 seconds to wait before the cool down is up and that’s an additional 7.5 seconds. So that’s 46.5 + 7.5 = 54 seconds retaliation out of 60 seconds.
So first off, in that 46.5 seconds, you should be able to land at least 2 auto attacks and fill the missing 1.5 seconds of retaliation with a 4 second retaliation from the Symbol of protection + Mighty blow. Onto of that, if you use Virtue of Justice towards the beginning of this combo, you have it up after 30 seconds which gives you another 4 seconds. So that is now 46.5(from the skills breakout above) + 4 (2 auto attacks landed + symbol + Mighty blow) + 7.5 (stand your ground again) + 4 (virtue of justice again) = 62 seconds retaliation out of 60 seconds.
So how does this equal endless retaliation?
Non ranged (aka being able to auto attack your target) should be obvious.
So, after all these recent changes, I realized that my retaliation build is still untouched. I wanted to fill some of the complainers in by demonstrating the retaliation ONLY side of my build. This is not a complete guide on guardian in anyway. Just one aspect of my build. Please see the TLDR if you do not want to read the wall of text that follows.
First to clarify: You can still do near endless retaliation (while in combat!).
So first off as a disclaimer: This is a bunker/hold point build that I play this with. Also you can use other weps besides scepter/shield. You could do scepter torch for instance. If you see a melee coming, switch to sword or mace since you do not need to worry about being kited. But more on that later…
BUILD: apparently Guild Wars2 Skills does not keep a consistent link. I am going to post the build (at the bottom of the last post) until I can create a link to it that will hold.
The way this build works best is to wait until you are in combat, and then use your retaliation with some sense. You can’t just spam it. Well, you can, however your virtues will be useless.
So onto how the build works:
Each virtue gives 4 seconds of retaliation. So that’s 12 seconds. However with the Renewed Focus ultimate you can double that (if you spam. However as I said, this build is meant to be used with some sort of sense).
So now we have 24 seconds of retaliation. However the build works much better if you spread out the retaliation by incorporating the hammer #1 3rd strike (symbol of protection) + #2 (mighty blow) which is a blast finisher. This gives 4 seconds of retaliation on a 5 second cool down. Once again this assumes you are in range of your target and I will cover that more in depth later.
Anyway, if you look at that alone, you can alreakittenep retaliation up (technically) for 48 out of 60 seconds. Now I realize that in combat it is hard to constantly hit your hammer, however, remember that as long as you hit the first two hits your third will put out the symbol regardless if you hit your target or not. Also I do understand that there are ranged classes in the game, and I am getting to that next.
So, now that we have covered that you can get 48 seconds of retaliation per minute, we still have other skills to use. Stand your ground! is a great skill, not only because it gives stability for 6 seconds on a 24 second cool down (traited), but it also gives 6 seconds retaliation base, but with the trait Vengeful in virtues, it makes it it 7.5 seconds retaliation. So now that is 48 + 7.5 = 55.5 seconds retaliation out of 60 seconds. However, if you realized that Stand your ground! is a 24 second cool down, then you almost caught me, but I remembered that as well. So technically since Stand your ground is up 2 times in 60 seconds, we have an additional 7.5 seconds. So that’s 55.5 + 7.5 = *63 seconds retaliation.
(edited by casper.2947)
I pretty much only play PVP so I will answer based on that. For pvp, scepter helps stop enemies from kiting you. It is a medium ranged wep and has a 3 sec immobilize.
Not only that, but most weps have anti kiting abilities to some extent.
Hammer can immobilize, plus lock people in a circle they cant leave without stability.
Great Sword has a slow + the #5 which pulls people to you
1h Sword has the #2 which jumps to your target
1h Mace is the only one that I believe has no way to stop kiting.
I see alot of people getting replies before me, but after my post, and I just wanted to make sure that my post didnt get ignored. Ticket#120903-009194
120903-009194 this is a ticket for a lag issue which has been resolved. It seems I wasnt the only one lagging. Anyway at the end i mention the primeval set not allowing me to apply
I bought a primeval gear set to put on my heavy armor. However, when I double click the primeval pieces like instructed nothing happens. I am uncertain as to why.