(edited by crimlet.9872)
The way it is now, level down system doesn’t truly put higher level players on an even field. They are more powerful than you are. You might as well throw away your kb/mouse in frustration. Leave the game. Or quite playing altogether. Because who wants to play with somebody there that is clearly more powerful that it’s like you being there doesn’t even tip any scales?
And yet for four years and counting millions of players have done just that. You have convinced yourself the game is broken, and we tend to see what we expect to see.
I’m not your enemy. I’ve tried to explain as best I can that the game was designed to work as it does, and that “more powerful” is a natural and expected result of the progression of skills and stats every toon develops as it levels up.
This is a game for casual players, not hardcores seeking a challenge. They’ve added some goals for advanced players like Ascended gear and raids, but these were added a considerable time after launch (three years later for raids), while the dynamic level adjustments were built into the game before launch.
It was always intended to work this way, and while you may not be the only one who doesn’t like it, the problem is not as clear or as severe as you seem to have convinced yourself it is. Thus, the problem exists in your own mind, not in the game. No other explanation is necessary or even possible.
This is incorrect. The DLA as explained prior to release always as in always always always portrayed it as putting higher level players onto an even level with the players around. And yes if this was the case that higher level players were truly leveled down to an even scale it would be great for everybody, and a great selling point for the game at release. My original plan was to play Tera. But when I saw all the info on GW2, I skipped Tera, and waited for GW2 to release because of features like this. Yes the concept is great. And if it actually did work as it was portrayed, it would be great.
However, it doesn’t work as portrayed. And higher level players are overpowered nonetheless. Not a very good compromise. And screws up the gameplay for players progressing through the game. Casual or not.
This is a you problem, not a game problem. I suggest playing one of those countless other MMOs that handle it better.
Completely circular. Does not address the actual question whatsoever completely disregarding the question. Circular meaning all you have done is restate the question instead of provide an actual answer.
What is your point for responding if all you’re doing is restating the question asked?
He isn’t. He is pointing out that the problem is not objective but completely dependent on your perception. Properly geared characters of the right level for the map are weaker than downleveled 80’s, but they are not that much weaker as you seem to imply. The main point of difference is that characters that are in the middle of the leveling process are rarely fully geared up.
Get a character of the proper level, gear it up in the best available armor and you will see that you too are blowing through content. Yes, the 80’s will still do it better, but the difference, while visible, is not as massive as you claim.So, as tolunart said, it’s not a problem that game has. It’s a problem you, personally have.
But if you want an explanation: the reason it works that way is because Anet wanted leveled-up players to have a reason to go back to low-level areas and help out new players. At the same time, they also wanted the level to matter. Thus there is an advantage, but it’s small enough that downleveled players can still receive good rewards.
Doesn’t explain. The fact remains that a player higher than level X is still more powerful than a player truly at level X. Even when the player that is truly at level X has all the best equipment for their level. A higher level player with all the best equipment for their level, scaled down, is still more powerful.
If designed in a way that truly puts the higher level player to be the base equivalent of level X so that they would have no advantages over somebody of level X, then there would be no problem. You’re not depriving the lower level player at level X of enjoyability due to having somebody who is overpowered around. And you’re not depriving the higher level player of enjoyability of enjoying content at their higher levels, and being too powerful to enjoy content at lower level zones.
So you tell me how anybody doesn’t see any problem when a higher level players is present weakening the quality of the gameplay. Yet when playing with others of even level with no higher level players around, it makes for true gameplay.
From my experience, which is limited, people are generally happy when a higher level comes help out with events, especially when there are champions.
So this could be a simple case of you being part of a minority so small that Anet will not change what is apparently working for most people.
Completely and utterly restating the question with no actual answer in sight.
What is your point for responding if all you’re doing is restating the question asked?
I responded to your OP and explained the situation but you refused to accept it. Others have done the same and you refuse to accept their responses. There is no problem with the game, the problem is your expectations. The game will not change, therefore the only solution is for you to change your expectations or play a different game.
No you absolutely have not given a clear answer. All I see is people saying that they have not had a problem. Well how is that? I have seen the same problem every single time. And glib statements reiterating the question are not in any way shape or form legitimate explanations.
Leveled down players are more powerful than the players of the actual level of the zone. Then claims that they aren’t so powerful that they interfere with the content, and are even welcome by some people.
Yet they clearly tip the scale of battles in a way that make the content pointless for lower levels to even play.
Let’s say for example, the developers prevented higher level players from participating with lower level altogether or actually leveled them down to the base capabilities of that level.
If preventing higher level players from participating with lower level players, then the gameplay of the zone is actually difficult to play through. Players actually have to play the game instead of just mash random buttons because they have a higher level there steam rolling everything.
If actually leveling higher level down to base capabilities of the lower level, then it’s pretty much the same as not having a higher level player there. But also gives lower level players somebody of even level to group up or play together with. Knowing that the player next to you isn’t more powerful than you are. So you can enjoy missions together on an even level.
The way it is now, level down system doesn’t truly put higher level players on an even field. They are more powerful than you are. You might as well throw away your kb/mouse in frustration. Leave the game. Or quite playing altogether. Because who wants to play with somebody there that is clearly more powerful that it’s like you being there doesn’t even tip any scales?
This is a you problem, not a game problem. I suggest playing one of those countless other MMOs that handle it better.
Completely circular. Does not address the actual question whatsoever completely disregarding the question. Circular meaning all you have done is restate the question instead of provide an actual answer.
What is your point for responding if all you’re doing is restating the question asked?
It would be an amazing feature if it actually worked. But it doesn’t since it doesn’t …
You mean, it would be a feature you would like better if it worked the way you envision.
As others have pointed out, it’s working as ANet intended and as others expect (or, at least, are comfortable with).
Yet with zero explanation on how anybody can consider this working out which is the whole reason I started this topic. For an actual tangible explanation as to how nobody seems to have a problem. When I’ve encountered the problem constantly to the detriment of my games. This isn’t a minor problem like deranged wardrobe system or some other petty thing. This is a major problem throughout every level of the game.
I don’t think most players find it a problem. At least, I’ve not seen too many people commenting on the feature negatively.
Which is what I’m trying to figure out. Like if you’re going to have a level down system that doesn’t actually level players down, then why even have it at all? Why not just get rid of it, and let higher level players into lower level zones, and do all the killing for lower level players. Since this is how it is anyway, it can be done without a level down system.
Well I think Anet didn’t want to go too far one way or the other. If they are too OP and have all their stats then you would not only see them 1 hitting everything in the starter zones but every other zone between starter and 80. More people would start to see it and post about it like you are.
There is a HUGE difference with the level down compared to the starter zones and the others. You can go to a starter zone and 1-2 hit most things even in PVT gear. But each map after that, as they get higher you will notice your power slowly weakens depending of course on what stats you are running and I think this is a good thing.
If they go the other way and truly even out the power of the higher levels down to the levels of those of the zone then you will have people complain they levelled up for nothing and feel it was a waste of time. These posts have been made already in the past a few times so just imagine how much that would be magnified if it was like this.
I think they made the safe bet and I also think it works pretty well. It’s only now and then I think it can be a problem. Such as during events for daily when everyone is on those maps doing the events and it can be hard to reach the event in time or get your hits in because the zergs are there. Of course this is usually made worse because most either use Zerkers gear or some other high damage. So yeah I’m not sure if it’s more a level issue or builds tbh in these cases.
But they did go too far. All levels have areas they can enjoy. Post 80, there is lots of good content. OK. But pre-80, it doesn’t matter if the player is 80. It doesn’t matter if the player is 5 levels above. They are so overpowered that it makes playing through the levels completely pointless when they’re around. You might as well throw away your mouse and kb and log out. Or just quit the game altogether considering how frustrating this can be.
Yet the complete complete opposite is the case when playing any level in a group where nobody is 1 or 2 even 3 levels apart. Leveling and proegressing through the game is actually extremely enjoyable.
I’ve leveled over 30 characters to 80. I’ve never had these problems. I don’t know why you have these problems.
I go into a zone, I do the stuff I want, and I move on.
Leveling is a transitive process. Simplest example is that no one can do your hearts for you. So you can do your hearts without interference from anyone. Hearts are a main part of leveling up by which time you’ll be 80 or close to it and none of this matters.
Gathering gives XP and no one can steal my nodes. If someone 80 is killing something and I get hits on it, I get XP and rewards.
Now I could shoot the same thing 8 times and kill it (and there’s no challenge to most of it anyway), or I can shoot it twice and get the same credit. That’s not an issue for play, that’s a bonus for leveling.
In fact, when I level, I tend to look for people who are playing so I can get kills faster. It’s not more challenging or more enjoyable to do everything myself. If I wanted to do everything myself I’d play a single player game.
Here I’m not THE hero but I’m part of a world. And other people live in that world.
If I were fighting bandits and other people were helping to fight bandits, I’d be happy that other people where helping to fight bandits, not sad that they were killing them so fast.
Nope, don’t see a problem here at all. Maybe it’s just a matter of perspective.
This is completely and utterly off the point.
I never once ever said anything about playing solo. That is the problem with the game due to higher level players being around.
I said the problem is finding players of truly even level to play with. As that is where they design of the game shines. Learn how to read before replying with something completely irrelevant to the whole entire point.
Not to mention everything you seem to be talking about only reinforces the problem that makes it so they might as well not even have a level down system anyway, and allow higher levels to be at full capacity when playing in lower level zones.
I haven’t done 30 characters, but I have done more than a few. And the same problem occurs every single time. You say you never had a problem, then actually address what I actually wrote instead of responding with something that has nothing to do with it. Because players not having a problem is the exact question I haven’t found an answer to. Considering I repeatedly encounter this problem at every level with every character trying to play through the first 80 levels.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
It’s not that Guild Wars 2 doesn’t care; it’s a design decision, and they are/were very proud of it before launch. One of the major selling points, in fact.
Fortunately, for most, unfortunately, for the few, Guild Wars 2 is not like every other MMO in many, many cases. I suppose one must accept it for what it is, and what it isn’t.
Yes, but the concept of it is great. It was a selling point because it was presumed that higher levels would be truly leveled down. And you could easily find other players to party with without needing to seek out players of even level.
It would be an amazing feature if it actually worked. But it doesn’t since it doesn’t truly put higher level players on even level with lower level. Which makes it pointless to even have. It doesn’t level down players to fully make them even with players in lower level zone, and so might as well not even level them down at all, and keep them at full power. If it actually worked, then yes absolutely it would be great.
I don’t think most players find it a problem. At least, I’ve not seen too many people commenting on the feature negatively.
Regardless, we spend little of each individual character’s time leveling; the bulk of play, and most, if not all, subsequent added content is designed for L80.
This just reiterates the question. It’s not about post 80. Take out everything after 80 aside from players going into lower level zones. I’m referring to the game from perspective of player from 1-80.
Regarding the game from 1-80, it makes it less enjoyable to play through if higher levels are around just able to kill everything. Might as well get rid of the level down system altogether, and just allow higher level players play in lower level zones at full capacity without leveling them down at all. Considering leveling them down doesn’t truly even them out anyway, why even do it?
I think most players are just happy to have other people around helping them do events so they just don’t see any “problem” that you are seeing. If higher level players are there helping to kill everything faster and complete the event sooner rather than later it benefits them because “more loot” and “easier loot” at that.
I guess it would not be seen as a problem unless a pretty big chunk of the player base starts to feel this way about it like you do and thus also posts. But like I said people just want to log in, kill some things for a while and make as much coin as they can with the limited time they have. That or get out of the game whatever it is they get out of it. I think you would be in a very small minority here.
I am not saying this to say there is no problem or “too bad” or whatever. I guess it’s just the way the game is designed. And if you think about it, it is designed better than most with the fact there is no kill stealing and such. So again why would people worry that others are helping to kill things faster? Nothing is taken from them, in fact (like I said above) the events are going faster so they can move on to the next.
Now what it seems you are saying is you like a good challenge to your gameplay and playing with friends who also like that same challenge. If you are looking for that in open world, you wont find it sadly. Oh there might be the odd rare case perhaps such as an out of the way champion that most people don’t bother to kill. A good example could be the champ ooze in Frostgorge, you can go there and find it up pretty often.
Perhaps what you are looking for is in the dungeons, Fractals or even Raids?
No the idea is for the game progression to be balanced.
There’s a reason why, in every single MMO, a higher level player can’t just party up with a lower level player, do everything for them, and everything is fine and dandy. Because it really screws the game up. Every MMO creates some way to prevent higher level players and lower level players from teaming together. And it makes sense to do so. GW2 doesn’t seem to care.
If DLA isn’t truly going to adjust higher level players, then might as well just do away with it altogether, and not even adjust higher level players at all. Just allow them to continue running around lower level areas interfering with game play of lower level players as they always have been.
I don’t think most players find it a problem. At least, I’ve not seen too many people commenting on the feature negatively.
Which is what I’m trying to figure out. Like if you’re going to have a level down system that doesn’t actually level players down, then why even have it at all? Why not just get rid of it, and let higher level players into lower level zones, and do all the killing for lower level players. Since this is how it is anyway, it can be done without a level down system.
I really wish we weren’t so powerful in low level zones as well, but it doesn’t seem like it can be balanced either way. Even if they nerfed the stats, they still have more skills and utility to use.
This would only mean the system doesn’t make sense. Because why even implement a level down system that doesn’t actually put players on even level with the players in the lower level zones?
There’s two alternative designs without any level down system.
One would be to have it how other games are. In which lower level players aren’t able to party with higher level players.
Another would be to just let higher level players be as powerful as they are without ever leveling them down. It wouldn’t be much different anyway.
Even you said it:
“a down-leveled 80 in berserker gear is going to have bonuses to Power, Precision and Ferocity while a level 15 toon only has a bonus to Power, a level 25 toon maybe Power and Precision. In addition, traits give even more bonuses and do things like immobilize the target on a critical hit, etc.”
The basic problem I described is this – higher level players are overpowered in lower level zones. I went on to describe exactly the problems this causes for players of the correct level. Having the right gear for your level doesn’t fix the problem. So what is your point regarding gear?
You have yet to describe a single time how it’s not a problem. This has been a blatant problem with every character I’ve played at every level of the game. And all you’re saying is that the problem doesn’t exist. Well how and what are others doing so that the problem doesn’t exist for them? Because I have not seen any sort of resolution.
A solution meaning I am able to easily group up with others, and we are able to play together and progress through the game on even level without anybody being overpowered.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
Sure if they fixed it so that it actually made higher level players truly even, it would improve the game so that it would be easier to find players to party with on your level. But even if they just got rid of it altogether, I’d say it would be easier to find players of even level to party with that how it currently is. Which is pretty much impossible.
Not sure why you say gear doesn’t matter, it’s the stat bonuses from the gear that are a major reason why higher level toons are more powerful when down-leveled.
Regardless, you asked for an explanation, and I gave it to you. This is not a broken system and it doesn’t need to be fixed.
What explanation? How is it not broken? I haven’t seen an explanation.
The gear is meant so that players of a certain level can play effectively at their level. This goes for any RPG. If a player is of higher level, they are able to wear higher level gear. It means in a lower level area, they will be more powerful.
I stated clearly how it is broken. I even gave examples. All you said is that it isn’t broken. When I specifically created this topic for an explanation as to why nobody seems to have a problem with it being broken. So if it isn’t broken, then there wouldn’t be a problem. Yet I have seen this same exact problem at every single level of progression towards 80.
Where is the explanation? You mentioned gear. I told you about the gear I give my character. So that clearly isn’t creating the problem. As long as a character is wearing normal gear for their level, there shouldn’t be a problem. The gear is fine.
I don’t see the same problems in other mmos. It really is much easier to find a party of even-leveled players to do stuff together. I did play some of Rift f2p back around when they started implementing little creatures you can level up. I stopped after level 25, and noticed similar problems of having to play pretty much solo all the time. Not sure about the problem you mentioned, but I really couldn’t get much into it. But most MMOs don’t seem to have problems like this.
I know what you’re saying about gear. I use crafted gear which scales every five levels. Of course, if I find random drops that are better, I use those. The gear isn’t a major thing anyway. I’ll give an example.
Party up with a group of players of all the same level X. Maybe no more than 2 levels separation between eachother. Play in zone X, and continue leveling up through progressing zones together. The game works so well. The design of GW2 just shines because the difficulty of enemies balanced for players of that level just works. And it is extremely fun. While you can play solo for the most part, it is just way more fun to progress through the game while grouped up with others. Even when it comes to random events, random players jump in. As long as everybody is of fairly even level, the game is extremely fun and enjoyable.
Introduce a higher level player into the mix, it completely screws up the gameplay. It’s no longer a fun even match between a group of players and whatever they’re doing together. Higher level player/players present creates a pretty bad imbalance that really messes up the experience. It just becomes completely pointless. Like there’s no reason for you to even be there doing anything. It’s not a fun experience at all.
Regardless of what gear you have or armor you’re wearing. This is just the case throughout the main progression. Good progression means a player with normal gear can play through content with other players of similar level without gaining too much or too little exp. And without higher level players getting in the way. The level scaling would be great if it actually worked. If a higher level player really was even to the level meant for that zone, then playing together with a higher level player would be no different than playing with an even level player. But the scaling doesn’t actually put that higher level on the same level as the lower level player.
As it stands now, the problem of higher level players getting in the way is everywhere you go. This isn’t the case in other games that don’t have level adjustment systems like this. I can’t even tell why bother even having this system when it doesn’t even actually level players down. It just doesn’t make sense to have it if higher level players are still more powerful. Likewise, it’s hard to say that just getting rid of this system wouldn’t improve the game dramatically.
Sure if they fixed it so that it actually made higher level players truly even, it would improve the game so that it would be easier to find players to party with on your level. But even if they just got rid of it altogether, I’d say it would be easier to find players of even level to party with that how it currently is. Which is pretty much impossible.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
This is about the dynamic level adjustment system with respect to leveling down higher level characters in lower level zones.
First and foremost, I have asked this question over the course of the past few years, and not gotten a clear answer. Including being told the first 80 levels is a tutorial which is a level of intelligence I would rather not respond to.
While it would be great if the game had a real tutorial system outside of main content, it doesn’t. That’s a whole different topic. You start the game off in your respective instance with basic information on how to move and play. As you progress through the game, you are given more information, which over the years, has been updated and improved.
The main content of the game, however, starts as soon as the game starts. The story begins as soon as you create your character. You set off to progress your character to 80 looking forward to the great adventure that lies ahead of you.
The thing that ruins the game is that the level down system just doesn’t work at all. It is supposed to make higher level characters effectively the same level as the zone they’re in, but it doesn’t. Higher level characters are still effectively higher level than the zone they’re in.
I have given feedback over the problems it causes only to get ignored and trolled. With no real answer to why this is. Or why everybody seems to be fine with it this way. Despite the fact I have come close to just leaving the game on multiple occasions out of frustration of not being able to enjoy the content because of it.
GW2 has alot of great content. The design really shines when I’m playing with a group of characters no more than one or two levels above or below me. The zones really balance out well. It is the most fun experience of the game to party or just play with other players of even level. But as soon as a higher level steps in, it becomes pointless.
Higher level player just does everything, and because they’re supposedly “effectively the same level” as the zone, the players who are actually of the level in the zone get rewarded for doing pretty much nothing. This is simply frustrating when players actually want to be playing and enjoying their missions, but a higher level just walks in and kills everything.
Most of the time is spent just playing the game solo, and avoiding higher level players. And not even trying to find even level players to group with. As it is near impossible effort to get a party going. Despite playing the game grouped with even-level players being extremely fun. If I want to play solo, I can play a good RPG. I play a good MMO so that I can play with others.
The level down system would be great if it actually worked. I would have the ability to party with other players regardless of how high their level. It wouldn’t be difficult to find. And would be able to play content together on an even level. Yet because it doesn’t work, it doesn’t happen. Therefore, what? Your choice is pretty much to play through the content solo in a MMO. Because partying with a higher level player is utterly pointless.
I would just like to know why in the years this game has been out, the vast majority of the population doesn’t seem to find this a major problem, and some don’t even consider it problem at all. And think this is fine. I don’t understand it. I never ever get intelligent answers. Just more trolling and pointless comments that have nothing to do with the point – enjoying the great content of a great mmorpg from start to max level and beyond. Meaning enjoying the content/story/exploration/adventure of leveling up through to 80, including playing with others on an even field without interference from higher players ruining the experience.
(Just to be clear about how well designed the game is when it comes to balance, when actually grouped with players of real even level in a zone of that level the design of the game truly shines in that all the missions are really well balanced and enjoyable. As soon as a higher level enters the picture, it severely screws it.)
Be careful trading with other players. Since there’s no secure player to player trade interface to prevent scamming, you have to use the mail system where players can scam you.
Each class can be built towards a certain play style. Also, you have a large set of skills/abilities, but only a handful can be active at a time. So you can switch up how you want to play on the fly. Even thief has ability that can cloak the entire party to escape.
Probably engineer or elementalist have the best support type builds that can heal/buff players.
i use mail to trade with another player. it is working fine because they are my trusted friend.
i can’t think of any reason to trade with a specific player i don’t know. you can buy anything from TP.
I think nobody will trade with individual for item that is more expensive than TP. Maybe the only reason is to bypass the TP tax and buy the item cheaper than TP. If thats the case, player should risk being scammed for not using TP.
This is completely wrong:
a: The tax on BLT have no relevance. 0 tax on BLT still doesn’t mean players are able to trade individually.
b: What you’re saying is as illogical as anybody who says you shouldn’t play any mmorpg if you can’t trust other players in the game with your password or social security number. You have to trade only with people you trust. You have to play mmorpgs with only people you trust. It’s not realistic.
If 2 players want to do a trade with each other, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are or aren’t trying to scam each other. There are 2 possibilities.
1. Both of them want to scam the other.
2. One of them wants to scam the other.
3. Neither of them are trying to scam each other. They just want to do a simple trade.
Either way, they don’t know the intention of the other player.
It’s nonsensical to tell them to use the mail interface which has no capability of securing trades.
It’s nonsensical to tell them to use the BLT because as soon as they put something in there, it is open for anybody to purchase. Not to mention the whole deal of having to go through all that extra hassle is more inconvenience than any player needs.
With a trade interface, it doesn’t matter what the intentions of the other player are, trade cannot go through until both players accept the trade.
The fact that there is no trade interface increases scams. It decreases player safety and convenience of trading with each other.
One thing that you need to realize is that any trading system that you would implement would have to have the same taxes as the BLTP.
Completely false. There is no basis for this. The tax on the BLT is fine. There is no need to also tax players who wish to trade with eachother. This is as completely illogical as claiming that player should be charged a fee just for giving something to another player through the mail system.
“Wanting to trade player-to-player kinda means you want to scam someone somewhere by paying a low amount for their item or having them pay high for your item.”
False. There is no basis for this as well. A player who wants to trade with another player simply means they want to trade something with each other. It is compeletely and utterly illogical to claim that they necessarily want to scam each other.
In any case, an interface that prevents people from scamming/robbing other players prevents it from happening.
If you look at almost any MMORPG out there, you’ll see that one of the biggest reasons for having player-to-player trading is ridiculous inflation.
This is totally incorrect. All mmorpgs have player to player trade because it makes economic interaction safer and more convenient for players. Same reason there is an auction.
If there was no auction or individual trade interface, players would still have the capability of mailing items to eachother. Players would either use offline site or wts chat to sell anonymously. BLT solves this by creating an interface right in the game where player can sell publicly safely and conveniently. Thereby reducing many scams and hassles. What it doesn’t solve is that there is still no safe/secure way for players to trade individually with each other. GW2 has not solved this. The problem is easily solved with an interface that allows players to trade with one another. Thereby reducing the risk of getting robbed/scammed when conducting individual trades.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
A trade system that allows players to create duplicate money/items is a problem. On that doesn’t allow this is not a problem.
^ I agree.
However there are FEW reasons to open trade with another player. I’ve done it a few times with my guildies, but thats about it. Having a secure channel to do that would be redundant and useless. And there is the FACT that there WILL be scammers. In one way or another. And even though it may not be against the ToS, there will still be tickets by those players who have been scammed. And ANET will have to go through and investigate each one, as they crop up. Resulting in a much larger work load, sifting through legit claims, and not. Which of course is an increase of moeny spent on ANETs part. It’s just not worth it.
This is incorrect. Scamming is far easier through mail system. Trade interface reduces scamming, and therefore less reports. Therefore, less developer workload. I’ve already explained this.
SOME ILLOGICAL ARGUMENTS
ARGUMENT 1: Auction house is a secure way to trade publicly. Therefore, players can’t get scammed when trading with eachother individually outside of the auction house. Therefore, creating a secure trade interface that can be used instead of the mail system when players trade individually with each other will increase the probability for scamming.
ARGUMENT 2: Whoever wants to trade with another player is stupid.
ARGUMENT 3: A beneficial standard aspect of mmorpg economic interactivity between players is a trade interface where players can trade with eachother. Therefore, implementing a player to player trade interface will have such a significant effect that the in-game economy will be destroyed.
ARGUMENT 4: Using a secure trade interface for individual trade is less risky than trading through the mail system. Therefore, more people will get scammed if a secure trade interface is implemented. Therefore, there will be more reports and need for monitoring from developer.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
@crimlet
“Incorrect. BLT has no interface for individual trades as there is none in the game. As for you and only you considering it stupid to want to trade with a player you don’t trust. How about not play mmorpg period unless you want to trust everybody with your account info and password. Maybe you should trust them with your social security number?”
Your argument is illogical.
Not wanting to add another layer of trading that players think is ANet approved but is susceptible to scamming is not the same as giving random people on the internet your SS number and account information.
I never said it was.
If you want to buy/sell items easily and securely, the auction house is great. However, if you want to do a trade with another player, neither the auction house nor the mail system are adequate. The auction house has no interface for trading between individual players. The mail system has interface for sending items to individual players, but has no interface to secure trades. It’s that simple. An interface for secure trade can easily be implemented into the mail system, BLT, or just be a separate interface.
This has been explained over and over. It’s not that difficult to comprehend. No illogical rebuttals or twisting of definitions can change the fact that an interface for secure trading benefits economic interactivity, and reduces risk of getting scammed/robbed.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
I found another site that says the same thing. There is no way trade with another player. Anybody saying you can do so in the BLT, I’d like to see it.
Here is the link:
http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/87124/how-to-trade-with-another-player
Wrong. There is no secure interface for trading between individual players. Hence the need for an interface to do so. It’s clear in how the game works. There is no imaginary distinction. The auction house is solely for trading to the public. You cannot use it to trade with individual players. It is currently not possible to trade with another player without using the mail system. Once one player gets a item, there is nothing to stop him from leaving without fulfilling his end of the bargain.
If you really think you can do it on the BLT, then go in the game, and find another player you want to trade with on your imaginary interface. In actual reality, it’s impossible as the BLT only allows you to list items for sale to public that all players have access to.
The fact that you don’t know who the individual player you are dealing with is doesn’t change the fact that you are trading with an individual player.
If you want to trade items with a specific player, then you have to use the mail system. If you can’t trust that player to not cheat you, then it would be pretty stupid of you to want to trade with them in the first place.
Incorrect. BLT has no interface for individual trades as there is none in the game. As for you and only you considering it stupid to want to trade with a player you don’t trust. How about not play mmorpg period unless you want to trust everybody with your account info and password. Maybe you should trust them with your social security number?
Trading post doesn’t have ability to trade with individual players. It’s meant for trading publicly. Hence your argument is completely invalid.
All transactions on the Trading post occur when an individual player buys or sells to another individual player.
You’ve created an imaginary distinction (public versus individual) and are using it as the basis for your entire argument. That renders your conclusions and arguments illogical because your basic premise is just flat out wrong.
There is absolutely no point to have a player to player trading interface because there is already a MUCH BETTER player to player trading interface in the game.
Wrong. There is no secure interface for trading between individual players. Hence the need for an interface to do so. It’s clear in how the game works. There is no imaginary distinction. The auction house is solely for trading to the public. You cannot use it to trade with individual players. It is currently not possible to trade with another player without using the mail system. Once one player gets a item, there is nothing to stop him from leaving without fulfilling his end of the bargain.
If you really think you can do it on the BLT, then go in the game, and find another player you want to trade with on your imaginary interface. In actual reality, it’s impossible as the BLT only allows you to list items for sale to public that all players have access to.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
You are absolutely free to trade with anyone in game any item that can be bought or sold. If you want a guarantee that the product exists or that the money exists to pay for it use the TP. Really don’t understand your insistence that they must build a completely new system to do what the present system already does.
I never said to build a completely new system. Where did I say that? And the present system does not allow for players to trade with eachother individually. Individual trade hasn’t been added to the system. As it stands, you cannot use the TP to do individual trades. There is no feature within the TP or anywhere in the game for that. There is no valid reason why it shouldn’t be added.
As a final note to the OP: My previous post said nothing about you wanting to replace the BLTC with an individual trading system.
How so? Even from this post describing how GW1 works, you make it seem adding an individual trade interface will replace the auction house. You described all kinds of problems related to GW1. Yet none of the problems you describe have anything to do with having an individual trading interface. All of those problems have to do with not having a public trading interface as well.
I’ve stated clearly and thoroughly over and over how adding an individual trading interface cannot and will not have any significant effect on the commerce that occurs through the auction house. For reasons I have explained multiple times with no need to repeat.
Over and over I explained the same thing. If you want to trade anonymously to the public, players can use auction house for that. A player who wants to trade something specific with another specific player currently has no option to do so without a huge risk of getting scammed/robbed.
Having no individual trading interface does not and will never solve the problem GW1 had. Having an auction for public anonymous trade does.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
An individual-to-individual trading interface has been proven time and time again in past games to never be unscammable. Anet spent an enormous amount of time in GW1 working and reworking the individual trading system because of repeated exploits and scams. The single thing that the vast majority of GW1 players, who did a lot of trading, asked for most was a single trading post. However, that wasn’t possible given the way the game worked so that had to be put off until GW2. The single biggest flaw in an individual-to-individual trading system is that no matter how secure Anet can try to make it, people will inevitably find a way to scam others. This is the nature of those sorts
of people. The trading company is 100% scam proof.
Completely and utterly incorrect. The auction house is good only for public trades. But has no feature for individual trades. There is no option for players who wish conduct a specific trade with a specific player.
As far as I know GW1 didn’t even have an action house. So any point your making about so-called problems in GW1 cannot be related to GW2 as those problems could have been easily solved by implementing an in-game auction house. Not by getting rid of individual trading interface.
An in-game auction house considerably reduces scamming as I have explained completely. There is no need for me to go over again how much benefit there is in terms of safety and convenience for players to be able to use an auction house as well as an individual trade interface.
My suggestion would be for a direct player-to-player trading system, that would run through the trading company, for a reduced fee of course.
As an example. I list Dusk on the item trading post and ask for another item, say Zap, in return. Another player who decides that this swap is worth their while decides to take up the trade and responds to my post by clicking on the Trade button and popping in Zap, then completing the trade. The trading company then applies a small charge to both players, which could be linked to the item quality, for the use of the TC as an intermediary. This would retain the utility and security of the TC while also keeping a check on inflation.
This could also work for people seeking to complete T6 mats stacks. For example: I need 100 vials of powerful blood to complete my stack but I have surplus vicious fangs, vicious claws, ancient bones and armored scale. I list up a total of 100 of those mats in return for 100 blood. Someone who has surplus blood but a shortage of those mats would certainly jump at the chance to get their hands on some. Again, the BLTC charges a small fee for this trade, but significantly less than the standard 15%.
I believe that introducing a barter economy will improve the balance of wealth in the game. The market economy, as it stands now, the benefits go to hardcore farmers who can amass the quantities they need to make gold but also have the capital to buy out the lower priced goods to artificially bump up the price. This squeezes out a lot of players. Whereas, including a barter economy, especially for the high end goods, will mean that players can choose to trade item for item based on their subjective perceived worth as opposed to the artificial value imposed by the market. Marketeers will be forced to lower their prices as more people will go towards barter to obtain the goods they need, this in turn means that items listed on the open market will be more accessible to players without huge quantities of gold who may only need the item, have the gold but have nothing to trade for barter.
TL:DR Idea basically boils down to. “I have this item, I want that item, I am willing to give you this item in exchange if we share the same opinion that the two items are of equal value in our subjective view.”
I disagree with this suggestion.
1. It unnecessarily over complicates the BLT. The BLT as it is makes it easy. If have something, but want something, just sell it at market price. Then buy the other thing that you want at market price.
2. It doesn’t solve the problem of players having no capability of securely trading items with another specific player.
It’s pretty simple. An auction interface for trading items publicly improves the overall state of economic interactivity between players. Any mmorpg without one suffers considerably in terms of economic interactivity because not having one makes it considerably more difficult and more risky to trade items/currency publicly.
The same exact thing goes for having an interface for players to trade with eachother on an individual basis. I have explained in great length and detail it does nothing, but benefit economic interactivity between players. As it makes it far more secure to trade with other players.
Both an in-game auction house and an individual trade interface do nothing other than improve players ability to conduct economic transactions with one another much safer and easier than without one of them or without both of them.
If you want to trade publicly use the auction. If you want to trade individually, there currently is no safe way to do that.
It is just as illogical to claim that it benefits economic interactivity between players to have no individual trade interface as it is to claim that it benefits economic interactivity between players to have no auction house.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
Fundamentally there’s no reason why players trading on the TP should be taxed either, but the tax was put in as GW2’s primary means of fighting inflation. (And considering the horror show that was D3 before the latest expansion came out, GW2 has been incredibly successful in that regard.) Ergo, in GW2, trade is intended to be taxed. Players who want to circumvent this should be discouraged.
I am adamant in my belief that allowing players an in-built player-to-player trading system WILL increase scams, because scammers will immediately start using it to try and hook unwary or greedy players. (It’s just the way the world works, sadly.) Currently the default response of players seeing someone trying to trade outside of the TP is, “Are you trying to scam someone?” It’s unfortunate, but as I see it, it’s the lesser of two evils.
Any flaws D3 may have had has no relevance to GW2 which is an mmorpg not a single player rpg with co-op capability. Each player in D3 is in their own world. There is no need for a trade function in a single player rpg because there is no other player in the game environment other than the npcs.
MMORPGs with players interacting in an open environment is completely different from a single player rpg. A secure trading interface not only benefits any mmorpg, it’s pretty much expected and known as a standard aspect of any mmorpg. It will especially be good for GW2 as it reduces scamming which reduces amount of invalid reports to developer.
Trading interface also reduces questions of people asking if you’re trying to scam somebody. Without a secure trade interface, every player that wants to trade with another player will be ask if they intend to rob them. Because without a trade interface, they can do that. without any problem. Just take the players items and run.
No mmorpg taxes individual trades between players because it’s not necessary. It’s a standard aspect of mmorpg economy that benefits every player. There is absolutely no benefit in not having one.
As it stands, without a trade interface, a player cannot safely trade with another player without a huge risk of getting robbed period. It makes it practically impossible for players to trade with each other on an individual basis. No imaginary benefit to any sort of economy is worth not having a major important feature of a game economy.
There is another point you haven’t addressed.
ANet has a scam proof way to trade between people. At this point when someone does get scammed, while ANet does punish the scammer their policy is to not get back the scammed item as those items are commonly sold, salvaged or given away by the time the ticket works it’s way through the system.
So if ANet puts in another system of trading then it’s a system they put their seal of approval on. People who get scammed using a player to player trading system that ANet specifically puts in for the purpose of bypassing the TP will reasonably expect to get their items and gold back. This means that anet will have to research the claims of what was scammed and where it went, which will increase the amount of work support has to do and how long it takes to clear a ticket.
And how will ANet return the items and gold? Many items will be sold to others or salvaged. Should they make the items out of thin air, contributing to inflation? Should the items sold to people innocently buying them be taken away? If the scammer bought items with scammed gold, should the sales be reversed? What about people who innocently sold to a scammer and got scammed gold and then bought items with that gold?
It’s not as easy as you might think.
As explained profusely on this thread, interface for secure individual trade bypasses nothing. BLT has no interface for individual trades. You cannot bypass something that doesn’t exist.
The whole point of having an interface for individuals to trade with each other is to reduce scams.
Also as explained profusely, there is nothing valid to report. As losing your gear in a trade that went sour doesn’t mean anybody has violated the Terms of Use. All you’re doing is restating the same illogical arguments that have already been explained.
An interface for individuals to trade cannot and will not bypass or stop anybody from trading on the public auction. The only way to stop players from trading on the BLT is to actually shut it down. Individual trading on BLT cannot be bypassed with implementation of individual trading interface as there is no individual trading on the BLT.
As it stands, without a trade interface, a player cannot safely trade with another player without a huge risk of getting robbed period. It makes it practically impossible for players to trade with each other on an individual basis. No imaginary benefit to any sort of economy is worth not having a major important feature of a game economy.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
Then why trade individually?
The point of your question doesn’t make sense. Why want to trade publicly? Why even play the game? Such questions could have multiple different answers. The easiest way to answer that question is that the reason depends on the individual player.
It’s not that complicated.
As you stated yourself there is a tax involved when using BLT. Players wanting to trade with eachother would be taxed if using the BLT so there would be a loss involved during the trade that isn’t even a public trade. The loss is fine when trading publicly/anonymously when considering the convenience the BLT provides in terms of pricing and putting items up for sale.
There’s no reason to tax 2 players who just want to trade with eachother.
Another reason is trades that don’t involve currency. Players who just want to trade items can’t do so on the BLT because they have to use currency.
The BLT is for public trading. The BLT or GW2 in general has no interface for players who want to trade with each other individually for reasons that could go on and on to infinity.
Whatever the reason, players who wish to trade with each other outside of an anonymous public auction house should be able to do so using a secure interface that is standard in every mmo. It will not increase scams. It will not have a bad effect on the economy. In fact it is a normal part of the purpose of even having an economy and reduces scams.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
The fact of the matter is, regardless of how secure the BLT is when conducting public trades, there is no secure interface for individiual trades. Hence the whole point of this thread.
The auction house is a benefit for GW2 and most mmos to have as it makes it convenient and safe for players to buy and sell gear publicly. Rather than trying to use some outside means of trading with one another.
CONVENIENCE – For example, it is far more convenient to post something you want to sell, than to spam the chat to seek buyers for everything you’re selling.
SECURITY – Public trades conducted within the BLT are anonymous and secure because players must put the items into it in order to sell it.
However the BLT or any auction in any game doesn’t in any way shape or form reduce scams when trading individually as it has nothing to do with individual trades between players. Which is currently done through the mail system. Meaning far larger increase in scamming during individual trades.
As stated and explained to death over and over again, an interface that protects players from getting scammed when trading individually reduces scams and support tickets. As proven over and over again to death, claiming that such an interface increases scams and support tickets is illogical.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
ANet has a system put in that has zero % chance of scams and that’s what they want you to use.
Gaile Gray
ArenaNet Support Liaison
“Yes. Please use the Trading Post. Please tell your friends — even your sworn enemies — to use the Trading Post. If we all use the Trading Post, scammers are out of business in the blink of an eye!”Any argument you use for an additional system for them to put in that by its nature is not scam proof needs to address this.
ILLOGICAL – Just because auction house is secure, players trading individually doesn’t need to be secure. And providing secure measures for players to trade individually will make it easier for them to get robbed/scammed than without secure trading interface. Just because trading on auction house is secure.
@crimlet
As you yourself said
4. A trading interface significantly reduces the amount of fraud and scams. Because both players would have to accept the trade, the person who gets the item first can’t run away with it.The number of fraud and scams using the trading post is zero. Even if a trading interface “significantly reduces the number of fraud and scams” it will be still higher than zero. Any increase in fraud and scams means more tickets to support. More workload. More cost to the company in terms of work hours and payroll. More people who get banned for scamming others.
In return your arguments that are needed to convince ANet are
1) I want. Not convincing as one person saying ‘I don’t want’ counterbalances your vote.
2) other games have it. Not convincing as all games don’t need to have all features and ANet feels their trading post positives outweighs the negatives.
3) the scam rate will be low. Not convincing as the scam rate with the TP post is zero.
Completely wrong. I’ve already explained. Individual trading interface reduces scams. It’s far easier for players to get scammed in individual trades without a secure trading interface. I’ve already explained and elaborated on why this is so. Stop repeating the same illogical argument that an interface that specifically reduces scams/invalid support tickets will increase it.
Also, trading post doesn’t allow for individual trades. So has little to do with current amount of scamming occurring when attempting to trade individually without a secure trading interface.
A player to player trade interface also wouldn’t completely eliminate scamming.
Where did I say that having a safe way to trade completely eliminates scamming? Does putting locks on your house/car completely eliminate houses and cars from getting robbed? Those examples you pointed out are correct, but Irrelevant. As you say, people can get scammed on a trade interface just like anywhere. Irrelevant.
A trade interface still significantly reduces players from getting robbed/scammed. Which therefore, reduces invalid support tickets (as other players doing that form of scamming isn’t against Terms of Use).
As I explained and elaborated on thoroughly, it significantly reduces that sort of scamming which is exponentially more probable without a secure interface for trade. Trading interface, reduces invalid support tickets. I already completely explained this thoroughly. It is illogical to claim that something that specifically reduces scamming will increase invalid support tickets about scamming. I already completely explained this thoroughly. Stop repeating the same illogical argument.
GW2’s TP completely eliminates scamming if all players used it, so why would ANet hamper themselves by introducing player-to-player trading and opening them up to support tickets and extra work?
Illogical. Currently without trading interface, it’s easier for players to get scammed when attempting to trade individually as explained thoroughly.
Individual trading interface = less invalid support tickets.
If most or all players bypassed it, the economy would be in a much worse state.
Yet players overall aren’t bypassing it. The occasions in which a player wants to trade specifically with another player have never and will never have any significant effect on the BLT. With a legitimate individual trading interface implemented or currently without one.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
@crimlet
It’s not really the players that you need to convince, it’s ANet. For them the current setup has two big pluses. One is the gold sink to keep inflation down. The other is the decreased business cost to them from zero scams when people use the TP.
Your idea would cost them several ways. One is the need to more closely monitor inflation and possibly decrease rewards for everyone if a substantial number use player to player trades. The other is the increased number of scams, as no personal trading can be made scam free. So they would have an increased workload for support, increased payroll, increased numbers of people banned for scamming and possibly decreased rewards to all players to offset inflation.
Any suggestion you make needs to be worth the costs to them.
None of those are actually an effect of having trade interface between players that reduces the ability to scam players. I already discussed this. Scamming in the Terms of Use has to do with people getting scammed for accounts/account information. As I already thoroughly elaborated on.
Again as I already elaborated on thoroughly. Scamming in terms of items and trade has nothing to do with Terms of Service and trade interface reduces that sort of ‘scamming’ anyway because it forces the person you’re trading with to actually put their items in before the trade goes through. As I completely elaborated already.
It’s completely illogical to claim that scamming will increase if an interface is implemented solely to prevent scamming. That’s like saying putting locks on your locker/house/car will increase the chance of items in there getting stolen. I’ve already went over this.
A. If any player feels like they’re getting scammed in term normal disputes with other players regarding items and currency. And it has nothing to do with personal info or account scamming. Then there is no point in reporting it because it’s not against Terms of Use/Rules of Conduct.
B. Having a secure trading interface will reduce any sort of reports as it makes it more difficult for players to get scammed out of their money/gear.
I already went over this. You’re just repeating the same illogical argument that making it more difficult to get robbed will increase amount of players getting robbed.
As for economy, the cost to the company will not change in any significant way by developing and implementing a simple method for individual trades which happens to be a beneficial part of the economy making trades between players secure.
All you’re doing is developing an interface so players can trade with each other without getting scammed/robbed. It’s not expensive or complicated. It’s a standard aspect of any mmo, and benefits players ability to safely trade with each other. Other than the small cost of development, any sort of cost of monitoring the game economy remains unchanged. The BLT will still sink gold.
1. An interface for trading with individual players makes it safe and easy to trade with eachother. There is no valid reason not to have it as it reduces scamming, and therefore, reduces invalid support tickets. It is illogical to claim that scamming will increase as a result of implementing such a feature that reduces scamming. Just like saying locks on your door will increase your probability of getting robbed.
2. Any insignificant effect that having such an interface has on the economy will never be more significant than the benefit of being able to do it. Solely because players have an ability to trade items individually makes it beneficial to the purpose of economy.
3. WTS spamming has little to do with individual trades. It occurs because there’s no public interface for trading. WTS spam is negligible because of the existence of a public auction house in the game. Either way, reducing WTS spam is not a valid reason to not have ability to trade individually.
4. A trading interface significantly reduces the amount of fraud and scams. Because both players would have to accept the trade, the person who gets the item first can’t run away with it.
ILLOGICAL – Just because auction house is secure, players trading individually doesn’t need to be secure. And providing secure measures for players to trade individually will make it easier for them to get robbed/scammed than without secure trading interface. Just because trading on auction house is secure.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
I can’t imagine a situation where you’d want to trade with a specific person who is also a completely stranger you don’t know if you can trust
Just because you can’t imagine a situation where players would want to trade individually with any player in the game doesn’t mean that situation doesn’t exist. Even if you actually have friends who play the game, it’s illogical to say there’s no such thing as a case where they will rip you off, and run away with what you give them.
NEVER trade by email, you’ll most likely get scammed and when you do don’t come creating support tickets.
Right.
cursory understanding of economics make obvious the advantages of a trading company over the advantages of being able to conduct player to player trades.
Incorrect. You’re comparing 2 completely different trading interfaces as if one should be used and another shouldn’t. BLT is for public trading publicly. I never said we should get rid of BLT. It’s a way for players to put their items up for sale, and easily shop for items they’re looking for.
Yet if 2 players want to trade something as individuals, there is no secure interface for doing so. This isn’t about replacing BLT.
There is no valid argument for not having a trade interface.
I already gave you the most valid argument. Player to Player Trading is unnecessary because it is obsolete.
Get with the times man, the Trading Post is how you trade things in today’s world.
Trading post doesn’t have ability to trade with individual players. It’s meant for trading publicly. Hence your argument is completely invalid.
There is no valid argument for not having a trade interface. The argument for having it is that it prevents players from getting scammed out of their money/items. The only reason any game has a trading interface is to prevent scamming.
There are games with no auction house. This game has it. Why? Because it makes it easy and convenient put stuff up for sale, and find items you need that other players might have. Whether they have some sort of fee to sink money or not. It’s a good feature.
So in any game, action house and ability to trade with individually with each other are standard things that games implement for player interaction. Just like having a party system.
A trading interface makes it safe and easy for players to trade items with each other with less risk of somebody running off with what you give them. Trading interface or not, liability or tracing anybody has nothing to do with it.
Nobody is held liable for any trades that go on within the game interface because there’s nothing to be held liable for. It’s not against Terms of Use to promise somebody something in return for something else. Then take what they give you without giving back what you promise in return. Scam or not, it’s not what the Terms of Use considers when referring to scamming players for account information.
You can take what people give you, and run. Without giving back what you promised in return. It’s perfectly fine in any game and not a violation of anything. There’s no need to trace them because there’s nothing to report as they haven’t violated any actual rules of conduct according to what scamming actually is which has to do with stealing accounts or portraying staff in order to fish for personally identifying information.
As for so called ‘scamming’ during game play with trading between players, it is completely opposite logic to say it’s easier to scam somebody if there is a trade interface. When the whole purpose of any game even having a trade interface is to prevent that sort of scamming. With a trade interface, both players have to put both of their items/money in. And both have to accept what’s locked in there in order for the trade to go through. This is done specifically for no other reason than to prevent players form getting scammed.
So your whole argument about a trading interface increasing scamming is like saying putting locks on the car make it easier to steal. Or putting locks on your house or safe make it easier to break into.
Lets all have lockers at the gym and not allow locks on them because it will make it easier for people to steal what you put into your locker.
Most of the advantages of not having a personal player-to-player trading option have been listed above already, but bear repeating:
- No WTS spam in mapchat. Also, no WTB spam in mapchat either.
- No scamming between players (unless you are gullible enough to trade through in-game mail).
- No hacking/duping attempts by players trying to deliberately abuse their game client with a trade window open.
- Tradepost fees (15% of all sales) keep the in-game economy healthy, by preventing exponential inflation of in-game currency over time.
-Having an auction is what has significant effect on limiting wts spam. Not taking away trade between players. Even if the effect were remotely significant, it’s not as worthwhile as actually being able to trade between players.
-It does the opposite of preventing scamming. Without a secure way to trade it is far far easier to scam players. All you have to do is tell them you will give them something in return once you receive what they give you. Then don’t give them anything. Individual trading interface prevents this.
-Effect on keeping the economy healthy is incorrect. Those fees sink money when buying and selling on public auction. It doesn’t mean it affects economy in negative way if players are able to trade between each other individually without any money getting sunk. It’s not a valid reason to prevent players from being able to trade with eachother. It doesn’t make the economy any more or less healthier to prevent players from trading with each other.
I’m not sure what source your getting your reasons from, but I’d definitely like to see it.
Why would you want to trade with players that you can’t trust enough to use the mail system?
Same reason you would trade anything on the planet.
There’s 6 armor slots:
chest
legs
boots
gloves
head
shoulders
When you start the game, you get chest, legs, boots. Then you choose something for either the head or shoulder slot. I don’t think there’s a class that gives you gloves at start. So your starter gear would consist of:
-chest
-leg
-boots
-head or shoulder
You can buy full set of lvl-0 armor from armor vendors when you have enough money. They sell all 3 grades – heavy, medium, light. As you level up, they change what they sell you every 5 lvls. So the next set of armor they sell will be lvl-5.
At lvl-0, they won’t be selling armor for head or shoulder slot. They start selling head armor at lvl-10. And shoulder armor at lvl-15. Other than your starting gear, there’s no way I know of to get lvl-0 armor for head or shoulder slots.
So at lvl-0, they will sell you:
chest
legs
boots
gloves
When you start the game, you can immediately start crafting. You will be able to choose 2 crafts at a time for free. To change a craft, you have to pay. But you can choose a craft that will allow you to craft full sets of armor starting at lvl-5 and continuing every 5 levels with few exceptions.
It’s the same for the head and shoulder though. You you can only craft head armor starting at lvl-10 and shoulder armor starting at lvl-15.
Each piece of armor also contains an upgrade slot for runes. You can also craft runes. However, the ingredients to craft a rune can usually sell on the BLT auction for far more than it would cost you to just buy one off of there.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
Ya that’s what I had to do. But it only last 15min. Prior to the update, you had actual town clothes that you could switch to anytime. Now the town clothes are exchanged for that tonic thing that takes up limited inventory space. And is not the same thing as having actual town clothes.
Ya BLT is a good way to publicly trade items. But there is no valid reason to not let players trade between each other. It can’t be done on BLT. If there’s any problems with scammers, then find other solutions. Not get rid of a standard game dynamic that allows players to trade with eachother one to one.
(edited by crimlet.9872)
OK. I hopefully they fix it so we can have a way to trade with each other. Because the mail system isn’t setup for actual secure trading.
You should play ranger:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger
You get really good range and sick aoe. And pets help tank for you.